Large Tracer Head Angle Difference- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Large Tracer Head Angle Difference

    I thought this deserved a post of its own since the discussion is burried in the Tracer VP Photo Album.

    A couple of owners are observing/stating that the large Tracers have a one degree steeper head angle than the small and medium sizes as well as the stated angles on the website. This would be a bit suprising to me as I do not understand why a larger size would have a different head angle.

    Hopefully Mr. Intense or Rick the Welder can either dispel this or explain why there is a difference and what the actual size large Tracer VP angles are.

  2. #2
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    Mine isn't measuring that close to 67.5. One side of my angle finder is disagreeing with the other side so I couldn't tell you exactly what it is. This isn't very scientific but I have a pic of my bike next to a commencal (shop demo) that is set up with a 68.5 degree headangle. Even after I swapped my wheel (mountain king 2.4) with the Nevegal of the Commencal, there is still a slight headangle difference. Like I said though, not very scientific. I wouldn't have even bothered measuring if I didn't see those comments in the photo album. It rides fantastic. Much more stable and solid than the the 6.6 it replaced. Notice that the wheels aren't the same distance from the bottom of the photo. almost pointless to post the pics. One more thing, I noticed that pictures aren't really telling the truth. My home and work computer distort photos in different ways. Try getting a small ruler and measure the wheel in the X and Y axis. They are never the same.

    <a href="https://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/wagonwagen/?action=view&current=DSC01953.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/wagonwagen/DSC01953.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    <a href="https://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/wagonwagen/?action=view&current=DSC01957.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/wagonwagen/DSC01957.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

  3. #3
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    Hard to tell from the pics. Is the Commencal or Intense looking like it is slacker?

  4. #4
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    commencal looks a tiny bit slacker
    Last edited by nmtim; 12-10-2009 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    Funny this thread appeared just now, I sent Intense an email about this same thing yesterday. My HA is pretty close to 69 degree with a 36 van and flush headset.

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    I called Intense the other day and it was news to them.

  7. #7
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    When you spoke to them, did they say that it was actually steeper or did they say it was news to them and they would look into it?

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    No, they said it should be the same angle as the rest of them.

  9. #9
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    I might pick up an angle finder this weekend and measure up mine. This won't be a good read however as I do not have two of the same tire.

  10. #10
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    It shouldn't read that far off, since 20-25mm in height difference translates to a degree.

  11. #11
    Ole
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    If the head angle on the Large is steeper than on a Medium, then the wheelbase and handlig should me more similar between the two.


    Ole.

  12. #12
    wuss
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmtim
    I called Intense the other day and it was news to them.
    I find that surprising as a big mtb magazine claimed they asked Intense about it quite a while ago, and Intense was unable to explain. If I was a manufacturer I would inspect what is going on, and if they where speaking the truth the did not.

  13. #13
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    To a certain extent. But if you have two bikes with similiar wheelbases and one has a steeper head angle, the one with the steeper head angle will feel twitchier.

    Does anyone have a link to the MTB article discussing this?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithrider
    Does anyone have a link to the MTB article discussing this?
    This is the relevant part, it's not an online review (though you can preview the article online in some ebook format).
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  15. #15
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    Try to post that article dropadrop.

    INTENSE CNC better get busy on new linkage for us large guys

  16. #16
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    I don't know about the wheelbase part. Mine is actually a little longer than 44.5"

  17. #17
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    Anyone can read the article by going to the magazines home page, previewing the magazine, searching for tracer and looking at the pages. You are allowed to only zoom in to properly read a few pages in the preview but it's enough for the whole article.

    They quite liked the Tracer they had on test.

  18. #18
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    I just purchased an angle measurer from Ace Hardware. I tried it on the fork legs, stanchions, and head tube. I also measured the bike in both directions to take an average of the readings in case the floor wasn't flat. I am coming out just above 68 degrees with a fox 36 and chris king (non-flush) headset. It should be coming out closer to 67 degrees based on this setup???

    Caveat is I do not have the same tires front and rear (2.5 minion R in rear and 2.4 Big Betty in front). These are my porc rim tires which I hit a few weeks ago. They appear to be about the same height but who knows.

    This is a bit disconcerting if my readings are accurate or consistant (not an expert angle finder). Very interested in what Intense has to say on this.

  19. #19
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    lay the angle finder on the ground to see if it reads zero.

  20. #20
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    I just did lay it on the ground and and it is slightly off (to the right).

    That said, I measured the bike in both directions and this imperfection held true here as well. When the bike was was facing the downward direction (to my left), it was closer to mid to ever so slightly above 68.5 and vice versa it was around 68.0 to a little below if the other direction (to my right). These are estimates given it was not digital. I averaged the results to get to my just above 68 degree conclusion or one degree steeper than it should be.

    By no means am I saying my measurements are absolutely correct. I could be off here and my bike could indeed be below 67.5 degrees as it should be with a 36 (which takes it to 67.5) and a king headset (take it a couple tenths slacker). It is just one data point. If others are getting the same result as me then there might be something to it.

    I really hate to say something is wrong until myriad parties experience the same thing and the company has a chance to comment on it. That would not be fair. Again, I will just wait and see what Intense has to say and what others are measuring out at as I am not infallible.
    Last edited by smithrider; 12-12-2009 at 03:03 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmtim
    Try to post that article dropadrop.
    there you go: http://sites.google.com/site/bttport...untain-us-made

  22. #22
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    I seem to have some stiction on the new fork. After pulling it out I have 160mm of stanchions showing, and with the meter calibrated it shows 68.5 (flush headset, 36 van). I checked the floor with a long level and it's quite straight, might be 0.2 degree one way or the other.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by misuge
    Thanks. I kinda wish I saw that article before hand. I'm going to borrow a few different angle finders and do an average to see where I really stand. I'll get back to you guys.

  24. #24
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    Did anyone hear from Intense about this? No reply to my email yet, don't feel like paying for international phone calls if they won't have anything to say...

  25. #25
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    I've not heard anything which is a shame, it's not like it would take very long to check out the weld jigs and post something here.

  26. #26
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    i have a large Tracer. I run a CK external headset with a Manitou Nixon 145mm (520A2C), 2.4 Schwalbe muddy mary, with a WTB prowler SS in back. I made sure the floor is level, the Muddy mary is definitely a little taller. I used a digital angle finder, checked the head tube, stanchions, and fork legs my HA is coming out almost exactly at 68...I wonder if model runs have to do with it...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiminyt
    i have a large Tracer. I run a CK external headset with a Manitou Nixon 145mm (520A2C), 2.4 Schwalbe muddy mary, with a WTB prowler SS in back. I made sure the floor is level, the Muddy mary is definitely a little taller. I used a digital angle finder, checked the head tube, stanchions, and fork legs my HA is coming out almost exactly at 68...I wonder if model runs have to do with it...
    With a 145mm fork I think you are ok.

  28. #28
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    Sounds fine to me too, I had over 70 degree with a similar hight fork (equal size tires f & r though). As far as I'm aware Intense is currently looking into the issue.

  29. #29
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    Has issue been addressed by Intense Cycles yet? Was this a first run type of situation?

    Thanks in advance.

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