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Thread: Tubeless

  1. #1
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    Tubeless

    So, with the new Epic I am running my first set of UST tubeless tires.

    My initial bellief of tubeless was for the weight savings of not running slime tubes in your tires. After some research, it turns out that most people use tubeless for reducing pinch flats when running lower pressures. ( I have NEVER had a pinch flat in my life, by the way and don't run a low enough pressure to worry about them).
    It turns out that UST tires are heavier than standart tires due to the built up side walls/ cvasing. This means essentially, no weight savings.

    Since running the UST set up, I have crashed coming down the rock drop on the back side of Table Rock when I lost the bead on my front tire. I have also had a small gash in the tire when jumping up on a curb. At this point, I went the Stan's route thinking that it would solve my problems.
    My front (non-involved) tire took the Stan's and sealed up nicely. My rear (with the pin point size hole in the tire) would not seal up and the tire had a difficult time getting the tire seated.
    After frustration of not being able to use a nearly brand new tire, I just put the old faithful slime tube in the rear and now have no problems.

    Questions:
    - Do I keep the current set up? (now an even heavier rear set up)
    - Give the Tubeless set up with stan's another try with a new rear tire? (extra $ for new tire)
    - Convert back to standard tires and tubes? (not any heavier than UST tire set up)

    I would like to hear of the experiences/set ups of the Boise riders.
    BoiseBoy

  2. #2
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    Dude...
    Welcome back to more wind...
    Using Stan's is a bit tricky as you have to make sure that the magic granules are very well mixed with the liquid or it doesn't seal up pinholes very well. Having said that, it does work very well (I just pulled a Kenda off my bike and it had about 5 or 6 goathead thorns embedded that Stan's sealed up nicely). However, going the Stans route only adds weight if you're running UST tires.
    The lightest setup would be to run regular tires and a lightweight tube, however, this offers zero goathead protection.
    Second lightest would be to run regular tires, no tube, and a cup or two of Stans in each tire (this is what I run)
    Third lightest would be tubeless tires with a cup of Stans in each tire for flat protection.
    I would also be wary about the front UST tire that burped on you on the back of TableRock. Check out the beads on that tire to make sure it's not defective. As far as the pinhole on the rear tire, I've read somewhere that Hutchinson or Michelin makes a glue or patch that fixes tubeless tires.

  3. #3
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    what brand/model of ust tires are you running? what rim? what pressure(s) did you run them at?

    i run tubeless on all of our bikes. rims mavic 819s and crossmax xl (same rim, essentially, i think). i run continental tires. vertical, explorer, diesel, gravity, all ust models. i use 2-3 oz or stans. very few problems. usually run them around 30 psi.

    main reason i stay away from tubes is the pinch flat issue. i always get them with tubes. i think slime tubes are a good product...but pricey and heavy.

    sorry to hear about your initial troubles with tubeless. i recommend giving it a little more time.

  4. #4
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    I've never used tubeless, but if you are using Stan's and have to take a tire off for some reason, don't you have a major mess on your hands?

    What happens if you flat out in the wilderness?

  5. #5
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    Ust

    Quote Originally Posted by garnetspur
    what brand/model of ust tires are you running? what rim? what pressure(s) did you run them at?

    i run tubeless on all of our bikes. rims mavic 819s and crossmax xl (same rim, essentially, i think). i run continental tires. vertical, explorer, diesel, gravity, all ust models. i use 2-3 oz or stans. very few problems. usually run them around 30 psi.

    main reason i stay away from tubes is the pinch flat issue. i always get them with tubes. i think slime tubes are a good product...but pricey and heavy.

    sorry to hear about your initial troubles with tubeless. i recommend giving it a little more time.
    I have been running 819's with Specialized S-Works FasTrak Tubeless tires.

    The Stan's would hold the pin hole tight until I pumped up to my riding pressure (about 35psi) and it would blow like old faithful.

    Could one put a "regular" patch on the tire? I looked at this last night and the inside of the tire is very coarse and thready. I don't think that a patch would stick/hold.
    BoiseBoy

  6. #6
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    Tubeless since 2001

    Tubeless tires are great in my opionion, mainly because you can run them at lower pressure which is a real perk. Plus the thicker sidewalls mean less ripped open side walls.

    In the end I have found that a quality set of rims is the key to having a good tubeless experiance. I have only run tubeless on Mavic 819s and Crossmax xl and sl, but I have heard of issues with other companies rims. If you have low quality rims then this could be causeing problems.

    I prefer kenda tubeless tires and run stans, the only time I get a flat is when the stans dries up and I forget to put more in. Then I just throw in a tube to get home.

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  7. #7
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    It's hit or miss with Stans. I've been running a Conti Diesel UST on my 1x1 for two years at 18psi with no problems whatsoever. Every few months when I replace the Stans, when I open it up the juice is fresh as can be. I've had less luck with Conti Verticals, Gravitys and Maxxis Ignitors (all UST) for a variety of reasons - none having to do with the obscenely low pressures I run. The current IRC Mybros seem pretty good especially for what I paid for them (1/2 price @ IMT).

    Just like any good set of skins on your ride, find what works and stick with it.

    One thing I've found for sealing the bead is to use a CO2 cartridge the first time you inflate the tire. This helps set the initial bead. There's an organic moment when the bead pops into place After you empty the C02 pump it up to 60psi and spin the wheel to set the latex into the bead. After a couple of hours or a ride to the minimart for a half rack of PBR, lower it to the pressure you want to ride it at. It's heaps cheaper than an air compressor (which you can buy for the cost of maybe 150 CO2 tubes). There's a little economics 101 fer yah.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank

    One thing I've found for sealing the bead is to use a CO2 cartridge the first time you inflate the tire. This helps set the initial bead. There's an organic moment when the bead pops into place After you empty the C02 pump it up to 60psi and spin the wheel to set the latex into the bead. After a couple of hours or a ride to the minimart for a half rack of PBR, lower it to the pressure you want to ride it at. It's heaps cheaper than an air compressor (which you can buy for the cost of maybe 150 CO2 tubes). There's a little economics 101 fer yah.
    i agree about the high pressure to start off with. i've always used a floor pump when putting on new ust tires. just pump it up to 50 psi or higher...spin it around good. ride it around the block. then, lower it down to your riding pressure and go.

    i don't know much about specialized tires. but, i'd imagine they would be fine.

    fyi, cambria had conti diesel 2.5 ust tires for 36 bucks or so a few weeks ago. i got a couple. sweet tire.

    getting it to bead on the 819s was harder than a 2.3 tire for sure though.

    road them for 5 days around southern utah last week (zion and bryce area)...no problems at all.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the advise

    Pretty much similar to the wheel/tire forum that I have been watching for a while.

    I think that my biggest problem with the back tire is sealling up the hole in the middle of the tread pattern. I tried the "lying the wheel horizontal, then flipping it over after a while." I have also tried, with the tire on the bike and on the stand, placing the wheel where the hole is at the lowest point of the tire revolution (where it would contact the ground) and let it sit over night thinking that the product just had to work its way into the hole and seal it up nice = NO GO. It still blew white liquid like George Bush at an oil expo.

    Any tricks to seal up that damned hole?
    BoiseBoy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseBoy
    Pretty much similar to the wheel/tire forum that I have been watching for a while.

    I think that my biggest problem with the back tire is sealling up the hole in the middle of the tread pattern. I tried the "lying the wheel horizontal, then flipping it over after a while." I have also tried, with the tire on the bike and on the stand, placing the wheel where the hole is at the lowest point of the tire revolution (where it would contact the ground) and let it sit over night thinking that the product just had to work its way into the hole and seal it up nice = NO GO. It still blew white liquid like George Bush at an oil expo.

    Any tricks to seal up that damned hole?
    if the hole is too big, stan's won't seal it. here are some tips from Mavic:

    REPAIRING UST TYRES
    A. Repairing punctures (smaller than 4mm cuts)
    1. Don t remove the tyre.
    2. Dry the damaged area.
    3. Clean it with acetone.
    4. Pinch the tyre, so that the hole will open.
    5. Glue the hole with cyanoacrylate glue (Loctite 4850).
    6. Let it dry for approx. 3 minutes (keep the hole closed).
    7. Inflate the tyre to the recommended pressure.

    B. Repairing punctures (larger than 4mm cuts)
    1. Remove the tyre.
    2. Dry the damaged area.
    3. Clean it with acetone.
    4. Pinch the tyre so that the hole will open.
    5. Glue the hole with cyanoacrylate glue (Loctite 4850).
    6. Let it dry for approx. 3 minutes (keep the hole closed).
    7. Remove the tyre from the rim.
    8. Turn the tyre inside out.
    9. Find the hole and spread a thin layer of glue on it (Loctite 4850).
    10. Let the glue dry for 15 seconds.
    11. Put the rubber patch to the glued area and press it for 1 minute.
    12. Reinstall the tyre.
    13. Inflate the tyre to the recommended pressure.

  11. #11
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    what the hell is a tyre...dumb euros

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFloyd
    I've never used tubeless, but if you are using Stan's and have to take a tire off for some reason, don't you have a major mess on your hands?

    What happens if you flat out in the wilderness?

    If you remove the Stan's filled tire, it's generally not that bad if you're careful. The liquid stays at the bottom of the tire, so it's possible to remove the tire without spilling it. However, the bead is normally coated in dried Stan's and does require a bit of cleaning to get back on to the rim and seated properly.

    When I'm riding my UST wheelset, I carry an extra tube just in case. A tube can go into the UST wheel with no problems, it's just heavier.

    I have one set of UST wheels and they're fine. They have advantages (fewer flats), and disadvantages (not so good if you change tires regularly). In the fall when goat heads are in full boom, UST is very cool. The rest of the year, I don't care either way. I run my tire pressure at about 34 PSI with tubes, and don't pinch flat often at that pressure. For me, that's low enough pressure for the riding that I do.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  13. #13
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    So it sounds like the concensus is that tubeless is really only better if you want to run really low pressure. I run my Mutano 2.4's at 30 psi, so maybe I'm better off using airlock tubes like I have been doing.

  14. #14
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    better flat protection

    Quote Originally Posted by TFloyd
    So it sounds like the concensus is that tubeless is really only better if you want to run really low pressure. I run my Mutano 2.4's at 30 psi, so maybe I'm better off using airlock tubes like I have been doing.
    I found slime really only worked well with some puncture on the bottom of the tire, but those punctures on the side are where stans shows its advantage. Tubeless also has lower rolling resistance too.

    Air compressors are greater for putting on tubeless tires, before I bought a air compressor this fall I would drive down the street to the gas station and hit the tire with their air compressor. Watch those air compressors thought I blew a tire off a rim and sprayed myself with stans once, now I pay a little more attention especially with powerful aircompressors.
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  16. #16
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    One thing I notice repeatedly on the trails is people trying to run their UST tires too soft. This is especially true with converted tires. I usually find them sitting trail side recovering from a burp. Tubless setups conform to irregularities on the trail surface in a superior manner to tube setups at the same pressure. Through trail and error I've learned that running tubless and keeping your pressures up is the way to go. Riding around with low pressure in your tubless setup is just asking for trouble.

  17. #17
    Hi!!!
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    What are the ride characteristics of tubeless?

    And holy crap am I running alot of air or what!? I'm betwixt 60-65psi.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    What are the ride characteristics of tubeless?

    And holy crap am I running alot of air or what!? I'm betwixt 60-65psi.
    As long as your climbing on a relatively smooth surface, high pressure is good - there's less rolling resistance.

    Going downhill and/or in rocky sections, high pressure in tires makes the bike bounce all over the trail. Also, if you're like me and often ride sans suspension, the lower PSI is the only defense against teeth-jarring rocks.

    The only ride characteristic that I feel with UST is that I can run really low pressures without pinch flatting (the advantage being more traction and a smoother ride). Other people claim that there's less rolling resistance (something to do with tube/tire friction), but I can neither confirm nor deny that. Otherwise, protection from flats is the other potential advantage.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  19. #19
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    Man !, once you to go tubeless, you're never go back!

    Use to have all kinds of pinch flats and such. Even when I got my new stumpy.
    Finally, I just made the investment and had Ken's (where I got the stumpy) put on
    Tubeless Panaracers , and a Stans kit. No more flats. I run them about 45 psi. Being 220 + and all, and love to get airborne. The only problem I never had was this spring, because I did not refresh the Stans sealant when I should of. The back tire got a little soft on the trail, but I made it back to the truck without going totally flat.

    I really think that running tubeless is faster then a tube tires. People say its less rolling resistance. It just feels faster for whatever reason to me.
    You may pass me on the uphill, but on the downhill, my gravity kicks in!

  20. #20
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    Twisted...

    You may just may make the Ho Chi Minh dude from Vigrinia Tech look normal!!!
    BoiseBoy

  21. #21
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    Leibe Mutter

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  22. #22
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    Sooo not cool. He was Korean by the way...not Vietnamese (fyi Ho Chi Minh City is in Vietnam).
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

  23. #23
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    Al

    Quote Originally Posted by Visicypher
    Sooo not cool. He was Korean by the way...not Vietnamese (fyi Ho Chi Minh City is in Vietnam).
    Al, just a bit of humor, no offense meant to any person or nationality.

    Ho Chi Minh was part of the Lenonism rising in Vitnam during the 1940's. He essentially started the revolt agains the French witch perpetuated the Vietnam war. Later Saigon was named for Ho Chi Minh.
    I am a long time military person and a history buff, I realize that the VT guy was South Korean.
    The point of the post was to be humerous and make lilght of how "twisted" the crank can be.
    BoiseBoy

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