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Thread: Sag...........?

  1. #1
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    Sag...........?

    I just got my bike back from the shop, It only took fox 4 weeks to return my rear shock to me. I put a new fork on it Marz Z1 FR Sl. It says that 25-30% sag is ideal for the front fork. I understand how to set the sag, but I am just curious why you need sag on suspension, What happens if you run to much sag, or not enough/ none at all? Is the amount of sag more of a personal preference thing? Just curious..............

    Warren
    My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    Warren, post your question in the forks forum. They'll give you a helluva lot of info.

    The short explanation is traction. Sag allows the wheel to stay on the ground...where you want it. No traction when it is not on the ground.
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

  3. #3
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    and, sag allows the suspension to extend into low spots. If you don't have enough, your ride will be more harsh than necessary. Too much and you'll bottom and experience more bobbing. Racers use a little less sag to account for bobbing.
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
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  4. #4
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    Go Away Bike Related?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visicypher
    Warren, post your question in the forks forum. They'll give you a helluva lot of info.

    The short explanation is traction. Sag allows the wheel to stay on the ground...where you want it. No traction when it is not on the ground.
    Dude why send people away when there's lots of great resource here? He can always search, but isn't it more import to have a relationship with the locals?

    Anyway here's the deal with sag,

    Imagine riding along on a flat surface - now imagine a hole appears, the sag allows for the wheel to extend into the hole using the stored energy of the sag.

    Here's some more ideas to wrap you head around,

    the reason the manufacture gives you a range 25-30 accounts for riding style

    If you are smooth and flow try 30%

    If you muscle and hammer try something closer to 20%

    Oh and more than likely you have the wrong spring in you fork from the factory, unless you weigh 150-180lbs, you might need a new spring.

  5. #5
    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
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    It was just a suggestion to also post his question "let's talk about shocks" forum. Geez, I can't make those?
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

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    MTBR Board or MTBR Boredom

    Quote Originally Posted by Visicypher
    It was just a suggestion to also post his question "let's talk about shocks" forum. Geez, I can't make those?
    It just seems like the Boise crowd has been so preoccupied with non bike post, It's great to see guys coming in with tech stuff.

    EDIT Should be relabled as X-Post - looks like Warren posted on four forums. Guideline 6 I think.
    Last edited by Crash_Burn; 01-31-2007 at 09:37 AM.

  7. #7
    TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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    Sag? Isn't that where sh!t starts heading south as part of the aging process?
    (Yudda yudda yudda. Say, who here is from out of town?)

    The last time I has a spension fork I read the manual for setting sag and rebound and, um, dialed it in really nicely. Buttery almost. Then I got a fat 2.5 UST tire pumped up to 18psi and realized that was all I needed.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

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    SAG Wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    Sag? Isn't that where sh!t starts heading south as part of the aging process?
    I like my SAG (support and gear) in the back of a wagon
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
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    Visi.......I took it as a suggestion. Thanks.
    My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    TERVOR THE GREAT
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    Sag allows the fork to still compress and absorb bumps when you are not exerting normal pressure on the fork, and rebound and stay grounded over bumps and chatter, not to mention other things.

    For myself, I run as much as 40-50 percent sag when racing DH for maximum speed, and about 33.3333% when freeriding for maximum pleasure...
    I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

  11. #11
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    "EDIT Should be relabled as X-Post - looks like Warren posted on four forums. Guideline 6 I think"

    What does all that mean? Did I do something wrong?
    My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
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    Cant get the fork to sag!

    I am thinking now that I dont know how to adjust the fork to sag. When I sit on my bike the fork wont sag at all. I have lowered the pressure way down and still no sag. When I stand up on the pedals it will sag. So do I set the sag for when I am standing up? or am I missing something here. It seems to me that when I am seated there is very little weight distributed to the front end of the bike. Who wants to get together, just you me and a shock pump and help me with this beast known as sag? Or is it possible that it takes time for the shock to break in? Help! One other thing, the shock I have is a 150mm. When I do the calculations that comes out to 6" I measured the stanchions that are showing and it is exactly 6" so when it goes through the full travel or "bottoms out" every bit of that should go in the bottom tubes on the fork right? I cant get it to do that either, I was just trying some adjustments and thought I would try it. Nope cant do it, what does that mean if anything?

    Warren.
    My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    TERVOR THE GREAT
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    put a zip tie on your forks stanchions. it's the best guage ever.

    and take air out of your fork until it has the desired sag.
    I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

  14. #14
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    Moderator Madness

    Quote Originally Posted by Get Lost
    "EDIT Should be relabled as X-Post - looks like Warren posted on four forums. Guideline 6 I think"
    What does all that mean? Did I do something wrong?
    Something wrong? depends on your point of view.

    Obviously you are able to post at limited times and you are maximizing your efforts by posting on multiple boards.

    Did the zip tie work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Get Lost
    I am thinking now that I dont know how to adjust the fork to sag. When I sit on my bike the fork wont sag at all. I have lowered the pressure way down and still no sag. When I stand up on the pedals it will sag. So do I set the sag for when I am standing up? or am I missing something here. It seems to me that when I am seated there is very little weight distributed to the front end of the bike. Who wants to get together, just you me and a shock pump and help me with this beast known as sag? Or is it possible that it takes time for the shock to break in? Help! One other thing, the shock I have is a 150mm. When I do the calculations that comes out to 6" I measured the stanchions that are showing and it is exactly 6" so when it goes through the full travel or "bottoms out" every bit of that should go in the bottom tubes on the fork right? I cant get it to do that either, I was just trying some adjustments and thought I would try it. Nope cant do it, what does that mean if anything?

    Warren.
    Here is what I have experienced with zoke forks…

    As noted by Del Taco, I have found a zip tie is the easiest way to measure sag. As for the fork not sagging when seated it can be "sticking" a bit. I have found both of my marz forks, 66 RC2 ETA and 888 RC2X, both were a bit sticky when brand new. I would say don't worry about sag so much at this point and go ride the fork to break it in. Sag is important and should be adjusted properly, but I have found it easier, and I think more accurate, to set sag after a few rides on the fork. Just make sure you have enough air in the fork so it rebounds properly and does not suffer severe brake dive. You will get a feel for it as the fork begins to break in. Marz forks will take a bit to break in... but when they do they are butter smooth.

    As for not being able to compress the forks all the way I don't believe you will be able to. I am an absolute newb with this but I believe the fork will ramp up compression as you go deeper into the travel. This will help prevent the fork from bottoming out. I would think the only way you would be able to compress it all the way is if the spring/air/oil are removed. Maybe someone with more expertise would be able to provide a more technical and accurate explanation.

    Just my $.02… hope that helps.

  16. #16
    TERVOR THE GREAT
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    I use the zip tie trick a lot though, not just for sag. I leave it on, and use it as a guage to tell whether or not I bottomed (If set up correctly, you won't notice)

    It's especially useful for DH racing when you want to know where your suspension is riding so you can squeeze every last millimeter out of it.
    I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

  17. #17
    TERVOR THE GREAT
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimi1114
    As for not being able to compress the forks all the way I don't believe you will be able to. I am an absolute newb with this but I believe the fork will ramp up compression as you go deeper into the travel. This will help prevent the fork from bottoming out. I would think the only way you would be able to compress it all the way is if the spring/air/oil are removed. Maybe someone with more expertise would be able to provide a more technical and accurate explanation.

    .
    Depends on the compression system in the fork. I believe that fork should have no problem bottoming, and it probably is. You usually can't feel it bottom unless it's super harsh.

    Like said before, Zoke forks take forever to break in. Mine felt like crap for about a week of riding every day, and then I raced at Pomerelle and she felt sweet after 2 hard runs. You just have to make an effort to use the fork as much as possible during those first few rides.

    Trevor
    I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

  18. #18
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    I would try the zip tie if the shock moved at all. I am thinking it may just need to be ridden for a while for the "stiction" to go away. Anyways thats what someone at a bike shop told me. But I am totally open for suggestions. It's probably some rookie mistake though.
    My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson

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