Potential new trails in the Foothills....- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Idea! Potential new trails in the Foothills....

    I was at the Hiking/MTB'ing in the Foothills clinic at REI last night. Aw damnit I forgot the name of the dude, but it was the guy that is the Ridge to Rivers coordinator.

    Anyhoo....

    He hit on a couple of potential new areas of trail development. I was in the middle of writing up a grant nomination so I missed some details...

    (In no particular order)
    * Polecat Gulch. I think they are suppose to find out sometime in May if they are getting grant money to develop that area. I asked about the parking issue with the residents in that area and he said that both sides are getting closer to an agreement. I think he said that they have around seven miles of trails planned for the area.

    * The new area above Military Reserve. I forgot what he said about this.

    * Orchard Gulch/Five Mile. Ehhhhh what did he say about these two areas???? Sumpin' along the lines of how they want to improve the current trail there? It's an old road of some sort that supposedly has an old guard house somewhere up there? Erosion controls, cleaning it up, stuff like that.

    As far as a timeline for everything? That I didn't recall or perhaps he didn't give one.

    --------

    I asked about the status of the Harrison Hollow trails...more specifically the one that runs along the ridge that goes behind Healthwise. He said it's all private land and that it's off limits. Ugh.

    I also asked about the possibilty of outhouses like the one at the bottom of Kestrel. He would like to see one at Military Reserve, but they are rather costly...in the neighborhood of $15,000!!!!!!!

    He also mentioned how he would like to see a loop of some sort that connects Bob's and Corrals instead of having to ride up Bogus.

    -------

    If I misspoke on anything I apologize and please offer up any corrections or clarifications.

    Thanks

    Nick

  2. #2
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    I've been riding FiveMileCreek quite a bit lately from the Ridge Road down to Rocky Canyon.

    There is absolutely no reason to do ANY type of maintenance on this trail. It is ALL completely rideable (yes even all the top sections).

    Tell that guy to go somewhere else to pave the trails and stop ruining all the good stuff. Don't you people want ANYTHING to be challenging or a little bit uncharted?

  3. #3
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    Word!

    [/QUOTE]Don't you people want ANYTHING to be challenging or a little bit uncharted?[/QUOTE]

    That's what I have been asking all along...
    "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H.G. Wells

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    Aw damnit I forgot the name of the dude, but it was the guy that is the Ridge to Rivers coordinator.
    David Gordon, He is very open to suggestions and is not opposed to challenging trails that are not fall line trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    * Polecat Gulch. I think they are suppose to find out sometime in May if they are getting grant money to develop that area. I asked about the parking issue with the residents in that area and he said that both sides are getting closer to an agreement. I think he said that they have around seven miles of trails planned for the area.
    This is for a grant to match swimba's grant of $3500, not much in the way of any techinical trails thought since there are not many rocks in sight.


    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    * The new area above Military Reserve. I forgot what he said about this.
    Those are the two new trails built in the fall

    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    * Orchard Gulch/Five Mile. Ehhhhh what did he say about these two areas???? Sumpin' along the lines of how they want to improve the current trail there? It's an old road of some sort that supposedly has an old guard house somewhere up there? Erosion controls, cleaning it up, stuff like that.
    Fixing of the old road from orchard trail(7) to Five mile creek, it is almost completely washed out now at the top so it needs some love. The trail connecting five mile to the top of three bears is in the EA process now with the BLM so maybe building by the fall. The whole upper half of five mile creek is not on the current list but for something in the near future with FS approval. A lot of the ruts on the upper half of five mile creek have grown a ton over the past couple years so this will need to be addressed. Keep it challenging but water bars will be needed to hold the trail toegther. Five Mile Creek is uncharted? Everyone knows about that trail
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  5. #5
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    Relatively speaking dude. Have you ever run into another biker up there? How about on Kestrel? See, it's all relative. Everyone knows there are few places on earth that are "uncharted" per se. FiveMile Creek is not the usual social Barney loop, maybe it could stay that way. Oh what use is it arguing in here. Pave the freaking planet.

  6. #6
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    Social Barney Loop?

    I've seen your pictures, and I am very, very impressed by you bike handling and riding skills, but those are certainly surpassed by your gift for alienating people.

    Some of us who ride mountain bikes - well, probably the majority of us, don't consider the trails around here to be "paved". But go ahead - be superior and talk down to us. It's your dime.

  7. #7
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    My $0.02

    Considering the fact that 90% of the trails in and around Boise can be ridden on cyclocross bike, I would consider them paved. And if you've ever taken a fall on a trail in Boise, it sure feels like pavement. Besides, he was referring to Kestrel (and I assume Crestline and Hulls), which are major Barney loops. Go out there on any nice day and you'll see more people, bikes, and dogs than you can shake a bike pump at. Probably more than on the Greenbelt. By the way, I have never ridden five mile creek trail because no one I ride with has taken me up there. It's not on the Ridge to Rivers map. It's shown as....a creek. You're all taking words too literally. To me, that is relatively "uncharted" (which he did use quotations on uncharted).

  8. #8
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    Hey

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Floyd
    I've seen your pictures, and I am very, very impressed by you bike handling and riding skills, but those are certainly surpassed by your gift for alienating people.

    Some of us who ride mountain bikes - well, probably the majority of us, don't consider the trails around here to be "paved". But go ahead - be superior and talk down to us. It's your dime.
    Terry I've seen your attitude on the trails and how you ride.
    You couldn't even ride your bike over a little stump in the trail. You couldn't even ride around a little switchback without locking up your rear brake.

    If you at least practiced a bit on your bike handling skills rather than running off your mouth all the time, you might appear less "holier than thou"

    That is my opinion of you at this point.

    Also, it is rather ironic that you spoke at a freeride mtn bike convention up in BC a while back. Whatever man!

  9. #9
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    OUCH..........
    ................but funny!
    "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H.G. Wells

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    Terry I've seen your attitude on the trails and how you ride.
    You couldn't even ride your bike over a little stump in the trail. You couldn't even ride around a little switchback without locking up your rear brake.

    If you at least practiced a bit on your bike handling skills rather than running off your mouth all the time, you might appear less "holier than thou"

    That is my opinion of you at this point.

    Also, it is rather ironic that you spoke at a freeride mtn bike convention up in BC a while back. Whatever man!
    I think this Terry is not the Terry you are thinking of. I've met and camped with who I think is the Terry you are talking about (the one that works for BLM right and drives a new Tundra doublecab?), but I don't think Terry Floyd is that Terry.

    Nick
    aka "BelaySlave" -- logged in under what I thought was "BelaySlave" but it ain't

  11. #11
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    Sounded like him

    Quote Originally Posted by FearM9
    I think this Terry is not the Terry you are thinking of. I've met and camped with who I think is the Terry you are talking about (the one that works for BLM right and drives a new Tundra doublecab?), but I don't think Terry Floyd is that Terry.

    Nick
    aka "BelaySlave" -- logged in under what I thought was "BelaySlave" but it ain't
    so my apologies. I know the Terry I'm thinking of, rides or rode a Sugar, and it the BLM guy. He was "insistent" on riding in front of me on a trail, which is fine, but then I had to keep it in first gear and stop every time he couldnt' hop over some trail obstacle

  12. #12
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    A lot of system trails are easy when..

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Floyd
    I've seen your pictures, and I am very, very impressed by you bike handling and riding skills, but those are certainly surpassed by your gift for alienating people.

    Some of us who ride mountain bikes - well, probably the majority of us, don't consider the trails around here to be "paved". But go ahead - be superior and talk down to us. It's your dime.
    it comes to techical difficulty. But in the end I think this is something we just can't escape in a lot of areas in the foothills because we have absolutly no rocks when the trails get out of the drainages. The lone exception is tablerock.
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  13. #13
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    I didn't mean for my comments to go that far, although from what has been described I met a guy named Ken out on the trails with the same attitude who fully deserved such harsh treatment. Terry, what I simply meant was...have you ever ridden anywhere other than the Boise Foothills? If so, then you would understand what I mean by "paved social Barney loops". Don't take such offense, it's simply a fact.

    I have a good time out there when I only have a few hours to kill, or on my lunch ride. It's so convenient to just head out the door on my bike and be on trails in 2-1/2 minutes. But you can guarantee that if for a second I get the chance to go out of town to ride, I'm gone.

    When I first moved here the trails were exciting. It was something different. That didn't last long. Boredom soon set in. You know every corner of the trail, and can see what's coming from 100 feet away. The only bit of excitement now comes from dodging off-leash dogs and their poop.

    There are trails off the Ridge Road where most people don't go. Why don't they go there? Who knows. I like to call it the "social Barney" mentality. Mountain biking means more to me than most people. I like to get out away from town. I think most people here just consider it excercising; equivalent to running on a treadmill or taking spin classes outdoors. It's not challenging, and people don't want it to be. It's simply for fitness and socializing, like going to the gym. Which is why I say not to mess with the trails that are higher up the mountain. Not very many people will ever see them. Those that would already have, and don't have a problem with it.

    As for FiveMile, the motorcycles are what has damaged the trail. If you want to prevent erosion, ditch the motor vehicles. The whole upper half of the trail is baby-head rocks, which are not going to move anywhere.

    And Terry- thanks for the comments on my website. I just do that for my friends and family back east. Who knows, maybe it'll even "free your mind". I don't discriminate people on the trails. I just like to ride hard.

    Just my $0.67. Take it for what it's worth, maybe even get of town to ride this summer

  14. #14
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    Sorry, man, you must have me confused with someone else.

    a. I don't post here all that often, and rarely run my mouth.

    b. I haven't spoken in public in years, and that wasn't about riding.

    c. I can ride over bumps, as long as they are small ones.

    Still, the tone of your post was condescending. I find a trail like Bob's to be very challenging, and I happen to like riding Kestrel, Corrals, and Crestline. They don't feel "paved" to me.

    Someone with your skills has the potential of being a powerful advocate for freeriding, building more technical trails, whatever. But not if you alienate others. Then, you just come off like a snob.

  15. #15
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    And who is this other Terry and why don't I have his bike?

    I'm still ridin' a hard tail.

  16. #16
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    Need more hand jobs!

    I am with Bikemech23 on the cautionary comment about paving foothills trails. Last year, the Kubota devastated 3-bears in an attempt to level out the ditches and put in some water bars. We have enough trails in the foothills that resemble 4-wheeler trails.

    Orchard to Five mile was one of my favorite winter rides this winter. It was high enough it stayed frozen most of the winter and when it snowed there was so little traffic you could get traction in the fresh uncut snow. The connector ditch between the two rides provided lots of excitement with the steep drop in and the icy patches along the ditch. If this section is flattened out it will be just one more road ride up rocky canyon. If it is left as is it will continue to provide the heart pumping excitement with the potential of the “agony of defeat.”

    If trail maintenance is needed it is on Scott’s Trail. Some Cro-Magnon, uni-brow, knuckle dragger, road Scott’s when it was not only wet but sloppy. They left a six inch trench almost the entire length of the side hill. This trail needs a good hand job with shovels and Pulaskis and not the Kubota mini dozer. I hope to give Scott’s a little love and a hand job of my making. Hope others will pitch in a shovel or two.

    Happy Trails

  17. #17
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    Loving the trails to death

    Man, you guys whine like you haven't been riding enough. And if you haven't been riding, then what's your excuse? I've been recovering from surgery and I've got a new 1X1 that I can't ride now - so I got rights to whine.

    BikeMech23 is correct - motorcycles have caused more damage to upper Five Mile than mtn bikes. See aerial photo below of the area above Sidewinder for an example of the long-term impact this kind of damage has. (Sorry, I couldn't find one of upper Five Mile) (BTW I got this map from Ada County (Click on Online Maps).

    Terry Floyd is correct - some people enjoy the Corrals, Kestral, etc trails. I call them the "casual routes" which is a politically correct way of calling them "paved social barney trials". Most riders get off on riding that way around here. However, in my not so humble opinion it's not cool to insult people because their style of doing anything they enjoy is different from yours. And it's not much of an act of rebellion to call people names.

    Smilycook is correct - the only places where true rock garden-type trails can be built in the lower foothills are in the drainages and on Table Rock. He's also right about the wash out damage on the connector between Orchard and Five Mile that needs some huggin and kissin to make a sustainable trail. However, Chris is a veritable Elmer Gantry of single track and probably just needs to get laid.

    Zebdi is correct, that was a painful but funny dig. Too bad it was misplaced.

    IrishBudda is correct simply because he usual is. Especially about hand jobs.

    mtnbkrdr98 is the only one here who's isn't correct because of a case of mistake identity about Terry Floyd.

    There is just not enough representation of freeriders to any of the local agencies (e.g., Ridge to Rivers, City of Boise, BLM, USFS, etc. i.e., THE MAN). These are the agencies that bottom line what tails can be built. Instead we have hateful old hikers and rear-brake-death-gripping recreational riders whining for trail sanitizations in the lower foothills and SWIMBA doing its thing near Bogus. And not much in between IMHO.

    I strongly agree about the drops into Five Mile (the two of them I know of, that is) - keep them the way they are except where modifying them will reduce the erosion and give the trails a longer lease on life. I would hate to see them become Three Bearified Or worse, closed.

    I think the majority of the users of the trails off the ridge road want them to stay "a bit of the ragged edge". What I dig about them is the solitude and remoteness I feel up there and having earned it by grinding up to them - and that's something I fear would go away if they start putting up signs and scraping away the bumps and inviting the crowds.
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  18. #18
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    Good post.

    OK, I promise to quit whining. What can I say? I'm cranky in the morning. Comes with age.

    Good riding to everyone.

  19. #19
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    who the hell is Elmer Gantry ...

    I am only 26 and he sounds like some old guy?

    I just broke up with my girlfriend so you could say I need a new one, know any

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  20. #20
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    Mountain biking is a metaphor for religion

    Quote Originally Posted by smilycook
    I am only 26 and he sounds like some old guy?

    I just broke up with my girlfriend so you could say I need a new one, know any

    Chris
    Elmer Gantry is novel by Sinclair Lewis. It's a satiric indictment of fundamentalist religion that caused an uproar when it was published in 1927. Mountain biking, of course, is a metaphor for religion. The title character starts out as a philandering Baptist minister, who turns to evangelism and eventually becomes the leader of a large Methodist congregation. Although he is often accused of being fraud, Gantry is never fully discredited.

    As for the girlfriend thing, can't help you there. Get on yer bike and ride.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebdi
    By the way, I have never ridden five mile creek trail because no one I ride with has taken me up there. It's not on the Ridge to Rivers map. It's shown as....a creek. You're all taking words too literally. To me, that is relatively "uncharted" (which he did use quotations on uncharted).
    You've just got the wrong guidebook. I've got one sitting in front of me that has Five Mile Creek trail charted on a topo map, directions to the trailhead, etc. I bought this thing about 10 years ago, so maybe newer books don't have it. I think a lot of these trails were destroyed/closed in the foothills fires in... 96 or 97? Pretty much, the trail just follows the creek, so if you get a Robie Creek area topo map, you can find it -- I just checked the USGS topo map. It shows the trail, and its marked as a jeep trail. It leads to a little "x" labeled "prospect", which I assume is the old quarry at the top of the trail.

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