OT: 13th Street, enough is enough!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    OT: 13th Street, enough is enough!

    I have a request for everyone. Please go to the ACHD website here:

    http://www.achd.ada.id.us/TrafficSafety/Default.aspx

    Download the PDF form, fill it out on 13th St asking for stop signs to be placed from Alturas to Ridenbaugh on 13th. Here is why:


    On Saturday July 21st around ten pm I witnessed a near tragedy occur. At the corner of 13th and Eastman a family was trying to cross 13th going west. Traffic was speeding through in both directions. The northbound lane cleared first and a young girl who looked to be 5 or 6 ran into the street. She had looked left but failed to look right. Thank goodness her father was alert as he had to physically grab and throw her back to keep her from getting run over by a car that was heading south on 13th. The car never even slowed down.

    This got me to thinking, why in the world is 13th street a thru street? There are no stop signs on 13th from Hill road to Fort St.. With the explosive growth Boise has had in the last 10 years, Hyde Park has become a mecca for families and others who enjoy the small shopping districts charm and restaurants. I would like to see 13th closed from Alturas to Brumback and made into a pedestrian plaza. 13th street is a narrow north end street and should not be the thouroughfare that it has become. Barring that, then something as simple as stop signs on 13th at Ridenbaugh, Brumback, Eastman, Alturas, and Sherman should do the trick of slowing the traffic.

    Hyde Park is a jewel and everything should be done to make it as safe as possible. I believe that if enough people were to complain maybe something can get done. Thanks in advance.

    Mark K.
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  2. #2
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    Although that sounds like an unfortunate incident, I'm not for stop signs on that section of road. Due to the large number of parked cars, the number of bikes and pedestrians, and the posted 20 mph speed limit, I find that traffic is already quite slow through Hyde Park. During most hours, it's not possible to drive at the posted limit through Hyde Park.

    I live on 13th and spend a lot of time in Hyde Park, and generally think that traffic is okay on the street. The dust that was kicked up after the recent chip seal project was a bit ridiculous (not sure why through traffic couldn't be bothered to find another route for a day), but otherwise traffic on the street is pretty mellow.

    Narrow roads and cross traffic slow traffic down. The north end is pretty good in having both of these. I don't see a whole lot of reason to restrict traffic in the area any more than it already is.

    I'm glad that the little girl didn't get hurt, but that incident could happen anywhere.
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  3. #3
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    what do you do with the parking? there is some parallel parking on 13th (limited). then, the parking spills over to the cross streets around hyde park.

    if it is closed, can cars park on these cross streets between 12th and 14th?

    i agree with you on the safety concerns with people (idiots) speeding through there. (leffeaux, i disagree with you some on this..i may not hang out down there nearly as much as you do..but i've seen plenty of speeders...20 mph is too fast, imo. )

    personally..i go super slow through there for that reason. don't know about you..but i'd rather go super slow than hit a kid or a drunk or anybody for that matter.

    the solution is traffic calming. speed bumps...a landscape island (but there's no room with parrallel parking on both sides of the street). some additional traffic calming can't hurt. stop signs..no..

    you cannot count on people to use common sense (when they don't have it)...so, ACHD needs to come up with a better design imo.

    also...flags would be a good idea for peds to use (see ketchum, etc.). 1) it makes the peds think about crossing instead of just stepping out into traffic...2) the flag helps the drivers see the peds much better.

    traffic calming is the way..not closing the street off. why? 'cause steve needs to pull up in his audi with his titus on the roof rack, walk over to lucky 13 (not for long...good luck making it work in harris ranch), and have beer and pizza with his helmet and lycra on.

  4. #4
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    WTF? Hyde Park has charm? Hyde Park is a jewel? Hype Park is a mecca? WTF?

    Maybe to white rastafarians and lycra poseurs. They ought to fence the place off and condemn it for the dung heap it is.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  5. #5
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    I guess we should put stop signs everywhere

    Try crossing Harrision blvd or 15th around rush hour? It does not seem to matter if you are in the cross walk or not. Putting stop signs at every intersection will just turn the street into more of a nightmare. I use to live a block off of Harrison and would never live off that street again just because you could never get across the street without putting your life in danger.

    The real issue is the massive amount of traffic going throught the north end to reach the homes in the foothills. The real solution is to build a four lane boulavard on 36th St, which goes into the foothills and can pull traffic off of the more minor streets.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilycook
    Try crossing Harrision blvd or 15th around rush hour? It does not seem to matter if you are in the cross walk or not. Putting stop signs at every intersection will just turn the street into more of a nightmare. I use to live a block off of Harrison and would never live off that street again just because you could never get across the street without putting your life in danger.

    The real issue is the massive amount of traffic going throught the north end to reach the homes in the foothills. The real solution is to build a four lane boulavard on 36th St, which goes into the foothills and can pull traffic off of the more minor streets.
    traffic isn't bad in this area (boise proper). and thank goodness it isn't. at least traffic continues to move.

    go out to utopia (meridian), and experience some fun traffic. that place sucks. every time i go out there it (suburbia) puts me in a rotten mood. until of course i turn back east and head back home to boise. they do have some great italian out there though. olive garden and carrabas. yum. that's good eatin'!

    now, if they got an in and out burger...or a chik-fi-la....yeah, i'd go out there on occasion.

    man, it's beautiful outside today. clean, crisp air...ahhhhhhhhhhh

  7. #7
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    I'll be gettin a big ole Pack Out double cheese bacon thing with a whole messa onion rings and a strawberry shake on the way home t'night. Then I'll take to CX out for some lovin.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  8. #8
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    i like the idea of speed bumps. they create a good passing opportunity on my 650.

    ya think it's the burning hay in middleton that's jacked up the air so bad today? i'm glad i didn't pedal to work.
    mark weaver
    kuna, id

  9. #9
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    You would think a bunch of mountain bikers wouldn't be so married to their vehicles ... then again this is Idaho! Get out of your cars and onto your bikes. Less cars, more bikes. Make it more difficult to drive and more will seek alternatives. Trouble finding a parking spot, then ride. I say close off 13th to cars every summer evening and weekend. In fact close off all the central downtown area too at those times. Make the world a cleaner, safer, happier place. Check out this article http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...eSportsSoccer/ for a fascinating look at how things could be ... or just flame away on my sorry ??%$

  10. #10
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    Segway!

    everyone should get a segway. that's the solution!

  11. #11
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    hyde park was closed to cars as a peds-only plaza for some years during my childhood. we put the sprinkler in the street and ran around like the wild gromlings we were. hp was our playground (the co-op was there then, and the hp street fair was acutally held in the street, with a stage in the middle.) good times.

    please people, slow down. it is virtually impossible to cross 13th, especially with the urban assault vehicles parked on the corner. alas, i love it anyway.
    Idaho dirt, river, sky

  12. #12
    jalepenio jimenez
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    Mark, you need to send this post to the Statesman if you haven't already.

    I like the idea of closing the core area of Hyde Park to all cars. Great idea! Pedestrians and bikes only, heh, heh.

    If 15th and 18th were each one way like 8th and 9th, that would be even better. Leave Harrison alone but reduce its speed limit to 20 mph.
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  13. #13

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    If you close 13th then 15th 14th and 12 , etc... will become madhouses. People live on 13th, why should they suffer a closed road in front of or leading to their house. Just slow down when you drive through ANYBODY's neighborhood, and ride instead of driving whenever you can.

  14. #14
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    Thanks for the input. Optimally (IMO), a car free zone from Alturas to Brumback would be great. Of course, that would cause all sorts of logisitical nightmares for everyone. The next best thing is 6, yes 6, little old stop signs. From Alturas to Brumback. That should have the desired effect of slowing traffic down. Hyde Park is a pedestrian heavy area. A few stop signs to slow traffic should be no big deal. I guess it comes down to what kind of area do we want to live in. One where cars zoom here and there with no regard to posted limits? Or one where people can actually feel safe stepping into the street to get to the other side,(just like the chicken )? Here are two examples to consider. Years ago 26th street used to be a through street up to Irene. ACHD put in several sets of speed bumps and stop signs. Problem solved. Those that were using it as a through street found that 28th worked very well. Those that lived on 26th adapted to it. Irene used to be a through street from Harrison to 28th St.. The neighbors got together and complained and ACHD came in and added stop signs at 18th, 22nd, narrowed the street at 23rd,erected stop signs at 24th and 26th. Again those that were using it as a highway went somewhere else, residents were happy and adapted. The same can be done in Hyde Park. After all, if you are driving and you have to, gasp!, lift your foot off the gas and step on the brake and stop a couple more times than usual what is the problem? I believe we can "take back the streets", one neighborhood at a time. What a concept, actually having people getting out of thier cars and onto the sidewalks.
    Last edited by mtnbkrid; 08-02-2007 at 08:58 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudflap
    Mark, you need to send this post to the Statesman if you haven't already.

    I like the idea of closing the core area of Hyde Park to all cars. Great idea! Pedestrians and bikes only, heh, heh.

    If 15th and 18th were each one way like 8th and 9th, that would be even better. Leave Harrison alone but reduce its speed limit to 20 mph.

    Jim,
    It is in this weeks Boise Weekly, Statesman coming up. Those are great ideas, my wife says, (with an evil gleam in her eyes), that Harrison should go to stop signs at every block and speed bumps between them. Imagine that!
    Ride the bike.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW
    You would think a bunch of mountain bikers wouldn't be so married to their vehicles ... then again this is Idaho! Get out of your cars and onto your bikes. Less cars, more bikes. Make it more difficult to drive and more will seek alternatives. Trouble finding a parking spot, then ride. I say close off 13th to cars every summer evening and weekend. In fact close off all the central downtown area too at those times. Make the world a cleaner, safer, happier place. Check out this article http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...eSportsSoccer/ for a fascinating look at how things could be ... or just flame away on my sorry ??%$
    Thanks Adam, that is a great article! I can use that too. Haven't seen you on the mtb racing circuit this year, busy working for a living?
    Ride the bike.

  17. #17
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    Quadruple the gas tax. Use the revenues for social programs.

    Close certain roads for bicyle-only traffic.

    Outlaw suburban dwellings with more than a one-car garage. All garage entrances must be in the rear of the dwelling.

    Outlaw TV screens than are larger than 13 inches.

    Outlaw high fructose corn syrup.

    Decriminalize marijuana and prostitution.

    Free methadone for junkies.

    Outlaw professional wrestling.

    Create tax incentives for flipping off Hummers.

    Unionize the military.

    All streets must have sidewalks with at least 4' of greenspace between the sidewalk and the street.

    All automobile streets must be one-way with the exception of arterials.

    No more than three retail establishments can be contiguous. Malls are outlawed.

    Fences between residential dwellings must be no higher than 4' high.

    No more than two children per household.

    Outlaw commercial water parks.

    Outlaw commercial establishments with the word "Mart" or "Depot" in them.

    Get out of your car and join society.

    Dood.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  18. #18
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    this whole thing could have been avoided.

    I cant believe i have to post these pictures again.
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  19. #19
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    13th St. Improving

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrid
    On Saturday July 21st around ten pm I witnessed a near tragedy occur. At the corner of 13th and Eastman a family was trying to cross 13th going west. Traffic was speeding through in both directions. The northbound lane cleared first and a young girl who looked to be 5 or 6 ran into the street. She had looked left but failed to look right. Thank goodness her father was alert as he had to physically grab and throw her back to keep her from getting run over by a car that was heading south on 13th. The car never even slowed down.
    This must have been terrible to see - something that would make your heart drop a beat. Glad to hear the father was close by.

    My 2 cents is to make 13th a one way south bound and adding planting strips as traffic calming devices.

    The whole stop sign thing gets under my skin (in the north end). It seems people speed up more when they know they have the right of way.

    If everybody has to yield at an uncontrolled four way intersection it seems to slow everybody down which I think is safer.
    Last edited by Crash_Burn; 08-02-2007 at 08:29 AM.

  20. #20
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    As one who lived at one particularly bad uncontrolled north end intersection. As an uncontrolled intersection: about one accident every year. As a stop sign controlled intersection: zero accidents in four years. The uncontrolled intersection works great in the impossible actuality that everybody pays attention, knows the rules, and abides by them 100% of the time. Anything less than 100% and people get hurt.

    Of course the 100% requirement is also true at stop signs. Those red signs though do seem to bring cars to a stop/slow down at darn close to 100%, a much greater percentage than uncontrolled intersections do. Unless of course, you are in Boston.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash_Burn
    The whole stop sign thing gets under my skin (in the north end). It seems people speed up more when they know they have the right of way.

    If everybody has to yield at an uncontrolled four way intersection it seems to slow everybody down which I think is safer.
    Although I like all of Twisted's ideas, the lack of stop signs seems like a better option to me. Uncontrolled intersections slow everyone. That's a better option, than stop signs which allow one direction to blow through intersections at speed.

    I still don't see 13th as being a big deal though. I'm pretty anti-car, and live on 13th Street. I regularly bike from my house to Hyde Park on the pavement, often while eating dinner along the way (i.e. a slice of pizza or a sandwich in one hand). I'm moving pretty dang slow on the raod bed, and I can only think of one incident where I felt unsafe due to a driver not slowing down or giving me space.

    I'd love to have a city center where there were no cars. Unfortunately Boise, like most US cities, was built around the car and the assumption that everyone is going to drive everywhere (unfortunately). So unless we design some portion of the city to be pedestrian friendly, retrofitting our current city isn't always going to produce the desired results.

    Pull out the stop signs, or use planters to slow people down, are both of great suggestions. Convincing people to not drive to begin with, building more Hyde Park-like neighborhoods (so that people don't have to drive to the "one" neighborhood hangout - they can walk to their own), and building more compact higher density neighborhoods (like the North End) are going to allow people to get out of their cars. Talk to the city planners (actually city council) about not allowing any more horrific car-dependent suburban neighborhoods if you want to slow traffic down. If every new house requires a car for the resident to go to the grocery store, the movies, out to eat, the corner store, work, the kid's soccer field, etc, all the traffic calming devices in the world aren't going to lessen traffic.

    Look to our past to see how a city should function. The North End is an excellent example of a "real" neighborhood that has all of the attributes that developers are trying to reproduce in suburbia. Most suburban neighborhoods are exactly the opposite of what they claim to be, but buyers are too blind to see that driving your kid to soccer practice is many times less safe than letting them walk on sidewalks. And in the mean time the traffic in my neighborhood increases with all of these people that drive to it because they don't have they're own. It makes very little sense...
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  22. #22
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    But in the "good news" department... the new L13 is the same as the old L13.

    http://www.idahostatesman.com/entert...ry/122878.html
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  23. #23
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    laffeaux is pretty much dead on..and there are studies to support his views. I don't know if there's anything really wrong with the "design" of 13th st, it's more what's wrong with the drivers and pedestrians. We could go into accountability this and that...but hell who really wants to go down that path.

    Also, I've got a copy of "Suburban Nation: The rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream" if anyone wants to borrow it.

  24. #24
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    Liberal

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    Quadruple the gas tax. Use the revenues for social programs.

    Close certain roads for bicyle-only traffic.

    Outlaw suburban dwellings with more than a one-car garage. All garage entrances must be in the rear of the dwelling.

    Outlaw TV screens than are larger than 13 inches.

    Outlaw high fructose corn syrup.

    Decriminalize marijuana and prostitution.

    Free methadone for junkies.

    Outlaw professional wrestling.

    Create tax incentives for flipping off Hummers.

    Unionize the military.

    All streets must have sidewalks with at least 4' of greenspace between the sidewalk and the street.

    All automobile streets must be one-way with the exception of arterials.

    No more than three retail establishments can be contiguous. Malls are outlawed.

    Fences between residential dwellings must be no higher than 4' high.

    No more than two children per household.

    Outlaw commercial water parks.

    Outlaw commercial establishments with the word "Mart" or "Depot" in them.

    Get out of your car and join society.

    Dood.
    Holy Liberalist Batman!
    BoiseBoy

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseBoy
    Holy Liberalist Batman!

    Not that there is anything wrong with that!
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