IMBA representative Gandhi or Devil? Long- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    IMBA representative Gandhi or Devil? Long

    I was coming to peace with the persona of Chris Cook proclaiming to be our fearless mountain bike leader and protecting our precious commodity of biking trials. I even got a laugh out of the story 2 weeks ago of Chris riding his motorcycle on wet upper foothills trails and getting stuck in the snow and wanting help from mountain bikers. It was a hoot that Chris got caught with his hand in the cookie jar as we all have. I had even started to settle down about his blathering on about how he was protecting the Owyhee which have now become over run with motorcycles and deteriorating with the increase of 4-wheelers. I chalked it up to him being young and naive to Idaho politics.

    But today I am totally confused on who Chris Cook is and who he represents! Today I learn he has made a deal with Lucifer and is on the Blue Ribbon Coalition board. Remember the Blue Ribbon Coalition is the group that fights to open areas to 4-wheelers. They are totally non-compromising and a leave no prisoner group. They are fighting to keep areas like the Owhyee open for 4-wheelers. They will infest areas like the Owyhee we want to ride in a little peace like the a swarm of nats . Chris are you fighting to keep an area open for your motorcycle or your bike? http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=5

    Think I am being harsh? How about this little gem? Chris is representing mountain bikers (not me!) and the Idaho Recreation Users at an OHV conference next month. For those of you not familiar with Idaho Recreation Users it is basically motorized recreation and excludes hikers. I think the cover of the agenda for the ďIdaho OHV Recreation and Travel Management Workshop,Ē speaks loads about Chris. He is making deals with the devil.

    I am pissed that he is passing himself off as this Gandhi of mountain biking while working the opposite side of the coin with those who ride 4-wheelers (equivalent to recreational vandalism). I will ride side by side with my brothers and sisters that ride motorcycles in the Sawtooths on soils that will support the use. I will ask them to provide a little solitude for the moutain bikers in other areas. I will even go so far as for go my biking in Wilderness so others can hike and backcountry ski in peace. I WILL NOT SUPPORT the expansion and destruction of more trails by 4-wheelers. See it to believe it!
    http://www.nohvcc.org/workshops/id_ws/id_reg_packet.DOC

    Being on the board of these two organizations is like working for a tobacco company and being on the Heart Association board. It doesnít work that way!

    Who are you Chris Cook and IMBA, are you for sale? How long will our hidden gems be quality rides with you as our proclaimed protector!

    Time for me to find some inner peace and go for a ride and forget about this!

  2. #2
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    Your definition of Blue Ribbon Coalition is incorrect. "... group that fights to open areas to 4-wheelers. They are totally non-compromising and a leave no prisoner group." They are more compromising than the eco-terrorists and hardcore green groups, and work to keep Idaho open for all users, not just one user group. Leave no prisoner? That's laughable.

    http://www.blueribbon.org/

    "4-wheelers (equivalent to recreational vandalism)"... you ever think that it's the operator and not the ATV? How about education the users instead of punishing the user group? It'd be like shutting down the Foothills because a xc racer skidded into a hiker. I digress.

    As for Chris getting his hand stuck in the cookie jar... without knowing the full story... In fact, I want to hear what Cook has to say.
    Last edited by danK; 03-18-2005 at 03:00 PM. Reason: dang spelling error

  3. #3
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    Splainin' due

    I agree with DanK that Mr. Cook has some splainin' to do. Innocent til proven guilty n' all, although Mr. iBuddah seems to know his facts. I mean if they weren't a take no prisoners bunch would there still be quads running all over the Sage out there by Wilson Creek?

  4. #4
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    I am a mountain biker first..

    Yes, I did ride up trail 4 on my dirt bike which was basically dry, minus one or two sections and I thought the very top would be frozen and free of snow. Trail 4 was basically dry all the way to the top where I hit the junction with 4A so I set off towards 8th st. Only to find some snow and mud after reaching a point where I could not turnaround, I biffed on some ice and flew off the trail into some snow and ran into Tony who I know. Being a little tired and mad at myself for biffing I asked for some help which I did not end up needing. If I had known it was snowy up at the top I would not have ridden up the trail. My error and I felt bad for doing it, hopefully my trailwork this year will make up for my transgressions on that day.

    I do sit on the board of the BRC as a mountain biker not as a motorized recreationist. They asked me to sit on the board to help them get a perspective on what Mountain Bikers enjoy and what bores them on the trail. I hope that by sitting on the board that we can educate ATV users to not destroy singletrack and instead ride on trails that are their width. In an ideal world it would all be singletrack, but unfortunately there are more trail users than just mountain bikers so they need to be accommodated. I would much rather have the land managers create opportunities for them as opposed to destroying singletrack. So I decided to take a very proactive role and try to educate those that destroy singletrack. You might be amazed to know that most dirt bikers also hate ATVers that widen singletrack. Personally I think ATVs are just wheelchairs, but for some reason people enjoy them.

    I am speaking at the Idaho OHV conference about getting recreationist to work together to work out there differences together and to work on projects together that are a beneficial to all recreationists. I am speaking with Brett Madron from the Idaho Trail Machine Association because we have worked together on projects like the Danskins. Where he educates his people that motorized users need to be aware of other users and I try to make sure mountain bikers realize what to do when they encounter an OHV. One of the education things I did was the statesman article on the Danskins last year, which I hope a lot of people enjoyed. Both groups enjoy riding out there so working together is in our best interest. Obviously there is times when we can not work together or disagree on issues. A great program we work together on is the Idaho Trail Ranger program which is paid for by OHV dollars which helps to keep many miles of Mountain Bike trails open by cutting out trees. A lot of the trees on the trails in Sun Valley are cleared using money from this fund even though the dirt bikes hardly use these trails.

    This summer I spoke at a wilderness conference about getting mountain bikers and hikers together on projects and educating hikers on how mountain bikers take care of a lot of trails around the country. There were some people who complained a ton about bikers and I took a lot of heat but then there were a lot of great people who appreciated my talk and wanted to learn more. In fact I try to regularly meet with the ICL and Sierra Club on issues between the groups and it is the same where we agree on some and not on others. I think that is because a lot of bikers fill the gaps in between these groups. I would love to sit on the board of any of these groups and try to impart what mountain bikers enjoy and donít enjoy.

    The Owyhees are a mess! I have actually become very frustrated lately with the BLM and the lack of action on the Owyhee Front. They recently moved there offices to Marsing and got new field managers who think that grazing is the only use on BLM land. Since getting new field managers in the fall they have done nothing to make progress on the Wilson Peak non-motorized area. I have been making a number of phone calls over the past month to try to get things moving and to complete the EA and have been pushing for an emergency OHV closure for Wilson Peak area with no results. Every time I see ATVs destroying singletrack in the Owyhees it makes me very angry, but I know the only way I am going to change this is by working with the BLM to designate the area. I canít stand out there and watch the trails all the time, and it is even harder to track down offenders. If the BLM does nothing Wilson Peak will look like Hemingway Butte does now.

    Not trying to praise myself, but the BLM was going to make the wilson peak area a motorized trailhead before a I got involved with them. I actually have a copy of the rought draft of the Wilson Peak OHV trail system map.

    I could actually use your help on the Wilson Peak Area; you want to attend some BLM meetings with me Mr. Budda?

    As I always try to ask those that ask for something is that they get involved also, just like the technical trails discussion.

    Mountain Biking will always come first, sure I enjoy the dirt bike but would give it up in a heart beat if I had to choose. As I have always said I donít do what I do for personnel benefit, but instead because I am concerned about access. I would much rather just ride my bikes with friends on the trails. You can always call me on the phone with questions or concerns and I try to make myself available. I have a regular job so I try to do my best.
    I will admit I donít have any official training on advocacy nor am I perfect so I will make mistakes and screw things.

    These are my personnel goals as a mountain biker:
    1) KISS (Keep it single stupid)
    2) Ensure future mountain biking access
    3) Meet the needs of future and current mountain bikers

    Well I am off to the oregon side of hells canyon to meet some friends and do some hiking and a little biking.

    Chris
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  5. #5
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    Blue Ribbon

    Dank,

    Maybe I was too hard on the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Those old memories of how they were uncompromising on the Hells Canyon Jet boat issue might have been a figment of my imagination. So I clicked on their website of links with a subtitle of "activists tool kit." (http://www.sharetrails.org/index.cfm?page=45 ) The thing that really jumps out at me is all the mountian bike and Equestrian links. Ops did my eyes deseve me or are there no hiking groups. Included in the group is friendly group of "Wize Use" clubs like the Jarbidge Shovel Brigade. You have to admit this is a group you would want to keep in a tool kit on how to compromise and build coalitions. The Blue Ribbon Coalition represents petro-rec for the petro-rec industry plain and simple. They do a great job of it and don't need additional help from IMBA. They will use Chris like a cheap tramp and discard him!

    If I could figure out away to educate a small minority of 4-wheelers I would be all for it. But how do you educate some one that will ride a 6" trail on a 4-wheeler and not know they are destroying the trail. Some people are just to thick to learn! Most of my buddies that ride motorcycles don't even like these buttheads. Yes, I have friends that own 4-wheelers and no I don't think there is a place for them in the Wilson Creek area! Will the Blue Ribbon Coalition fight non-motorized designation in the Owhyee - I would count on it!

    I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.

  6. #6
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    nope

    Quote Originally Posted by Irishbuddha
    Will the Blue Ribbon Coalition fight non-motorized designation in the Owhyee - I would count on it!
    They won't I already have the blessing of TVTMA, BRC, Sierra Club, ICL etc...

    I am really leaving now..
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  7. #7
    Hi!!!
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    I've been riding the Wilson Creek area since last month (although not the hard stuff that you guys do) and have thoroughly enjoyed my rides out there. I have encountered 4 wheelers and dirt bikers out there and we always give each other a friendly wave. So far in my rides, I haven't noticed anyone recklessly criss-crossing the area and trying to be the next member of the Metal Mulisha. As big of a pro-mtb'er/hiker I am...I also feel that public lands should be for all within reason. BUT...I certainly don't want Wilson Creek to end up looking like Hemingway Butte or Rabbit Creek. *sigh* But I don't know if there is an easy answer to all of this....

  8. #8
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    Unbelievable. A hot button thread where no one went head hunting. Nice!!!

    As for Cook's faux pas... that's worse than getting caught kissing a girlfriend's hotter sister in the garage.

  9. #9
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    BRC are not friends of MTB other than to the extent MTB can help BRC.

    one way streets and a pure taking relationship.

    join 'em if you want, but we won't be doing that in Missoula, that's for sure.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    BRC are not friends of MTB other than to the extent MTB can help BRC.

    one way streets and a pure taking relationship.

    join 'em if you want, but we won't be doing that in Missoula, that's for sure.
    I hope the Missoula riders don't fall for the Sierra Club's tricks of befriending the pedalers only to have the "destructive mtbers" thrown out after they get your support.... and money. It's happened before....

    I've never had a motorcycle-affiliated group ban me from a trail, but I've lost count how many times an enviro-whacko group has put up a sign with a picture of a cyclist with a big red circle and a diagonal line drawn through it.

  11. #11
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    No head hunting needed

    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    Unbelievable. A hot button thread where no one went head hunting. Nice!!!

    As for Cook's faux pas... that's worse than getting caught kissing a girlfriend's hotter sister in the garage.
    You don't need to go head hunting when Chris does a fine job of sticking his head out on his own.

    As for his relationship with the BRC and whoever else he's crawling in bed with, suffice it to say it looks like he'll prolly end up being someone's b1tch.
    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    You don't need to go head hunting when Chris does a fine job of sticking his head out on his own.

    As for his relationship with the BRC and whoever else he's crawling in bed with, suffice it to say it looks like he'll prolly end up being someone's b1tch.
    They say politics make for strange bedfellows.
    At least Chris isn't sneaking around with ulterior motives. He's doing what he feels is best for the communities in which he lives and plays.

  13. #13
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    danK, your head isn't in a very good place, man.

    how about this one for fit? this is me.

    1) I am a custom MTB framebuilder by trade.

    2) I build trails wherever I can but they are always sustainable.

    3) I don't approve of MTBs in wilderness.

    4) I belong to the Sierra Club and I'm not an IMBA member any more. Each organization sometimes does things I agree with, and some things I abhor.

    5) I plan to buy a moto (KTM 200 EXC) this Spring and will ride that on many of the multi-use (MTB, hiker, equestrian, moto, ORV) trails near Missoula.

    6) I do NOT plan to join BRC because I disagree with their positions on trail access, especially in Wilderness.

    7) I enjoy backcountry wilderness backpacking trips to high alpine lakes where I often do photography and fish for mountain trout. I don't ever have the urge to ride my bike or a moto on such adventures, as I think they are more fun without the mechanical horse.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    They say politics make for strange bedfellows.
    At least Chris isn't sneaking around with ulterior motives. He's doing what he feels is best for the communities in which he lives and plays.
    you're right. his motives are never ulterior. they're just selfish.

    which is worse? thinking you know what's best for the future, or simply selling your own selfish desires under the rubric of "optimal community recreation"?

    Chris is a charlatan and I think it's shameful that magazines give him an outlet.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    danK, your head isn't in a very good place, man.

    how about this one for fit? this is me.

    1) I am a custom MTB framebuilder by trade.

    2) I build trails wherever I can but they are always sustainable.

    3) I don't approve of MTBs in wilderness.

    4) I belong to the Sierra Club and I'm not an IMBA member any more. Each organization sometimes does things I agree with, and some things I abhor.

    5) I plan to buy a moto (KTM 200 EXC) this Spring and will ride that on many of the multi-use (MTB, hiker, equestrian, moto, ORV) trails near Missoula.

    6) I do NOT plan to join BRC because I disagree with their positions on trail access, especially in Wilderness.

    7) I enjoy backcountry wilderness backpacking trips to high alpine lakes where I often do photography and fish for mountain trout. I don't ever have the urge to ride my bike or a moto on such adventures, as I think they are more fun without the mechanical horse.
    All very good points. Thanks for sharing.

  16. #16
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    Humans are selfish, too deny that is to say you are not human

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    you're right. his motives are never ulterior. they're just selfish.

    which is worse? thinking you know what's best for the future, or simply selling your own selfish desires under the rubric of "optimal community recreation"?

    Chris is a charlatan and I think it's shameful that magazines give him an outlet.
    ...lets see here so my line up for this evening is to draft a letter to the BLM on the Wilson Peak EA, organize trailwork signups, and do research and write emails on reopening trail E or I could go have a beer with friends and hang out. So which of these two is selfish?
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  17. #17
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    Why you are dangerous

    I can't believe you would make such a brash statement as, "They won't I already have the blessing of TVTMA, BRC, Sierra Club, ICL etc..." This is exactly why I think you are dangerous and naive beyond belief!!!! It will be statements just like the one you just made that end up ruining great bike areas.

    I will give a perfectly plausible scenario to illustrate the point why being on the board of other organizations can be dangerous. For this example letís use Caribou-Targhee National Forest. The Cattleman, the Farm Bureau, and extractive industry meet with the Federal Land Manager and give him a document outlining their demands and revisions to the next Forest Plan. The Federal Land Manager mentions their plan to open up old roads may meet some opposition from the recreation users. Sandra Mitchell with the Blue Ribbon Coalition chimes in and says they support the outline and want more trails such as Gibson Jack opened up to motorized use. The Land Manager states that Gibson Jack has traditionally been reserved in the Travel Plans for hikers, equestrian and mountain bike use. Sandra Mitchell explains I "already have the blessing" (noticed I used your same words when you stated ICL Sierra Club are in your back pocket) of mountain bikers. She goes on to explain the SWIMBA and IMBA President serves on BRC Board.

    The Land Manger knows even if he can muster support of local mountain bikers for the Gibson Jack issue, the power players above will make it extremely difficult to maintain the area as non-motorized for mountain bikers because they are already fractionalized. He will have to rely on hikers and equestrians for support. You being on the BRC board presented a situation that marginalizes mountain bikers input.

    Think this is far fetched? It isn't, I have seen the same scenario play out at least four times in the last 3-months with some of the same players listed above. If you stop and think for a few minutes you will figure out why and how some of the BLM staff were moved to Marsing and why progress has slowed on the non-motorized issue in the Wilson Creek area. It is politically tough times and you are setting things up to really muddy the waters.

    As a SWIMBA member, I would ask you to rethink serving on the BRC Board or relinquish your position as President. You have done a great job on building trails and advocating for new trials in the Boise area. I would suggest you stick with trail work and avoid the political arena while you learn western politics.

  18. #18
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    intresting hypothetical story

    Quote Originally Posted by Irishbuddha
    Think this is far fetched?
    Really far fetched, and an impossible scenario. Sandra is well aware that just because I sit on the BRC board that does not give her permission to speak on my behalf on any issue I am unaware on. Since this would be an issue for the pocatello, idaho falls, or driggs club I would defer all decisions to them anyways.

    Across the corporate world there are many individuals who serve on boards for multiple companies which provide skills and perspective to those companies.

    Hypothetically say a question went out to the BRC board "Which would a mountain biker rather ride singletrack or dirt road?" So without a mountain biker on the BRC board they might just assume that mountain bikers would prefer to ride ondirt roads. But I would be sure to inform them that we would much rather ride on singletrack.

    [QUOTE=Irishbuddha]
    If you stop and think for a few minutes you will figure out why and how some of the BLM staff were moved to Marsing and why progress has slowed on the non-motorized issue in the Wilson Creek area. It is politically tough times and you are setting things up to really muddy the waters.
    [QUOTE]

    I am very aware of why things have slowed down on the Wilson Peak EA. From Washington DC an order has come down to focus on grazing and resource development. This then triggered a number of events, the old BLM manager for Owyhee FO was given a job in washington and then the local district managers were shuffled and the BLM office was moved to marsing because the BLM felt they were moving closer to there main customer the rancher. Additionally at this time the budget for the BLM was cut and all of the managers were told to only use money on programs that were absolutly needed and asked for. So the Wilson Peak EA sat for most of the fall as I waited for an update and while the BLM employees waited for me to call them. Now I am trying to get the process back on track.

    Here is a hypothetical situation for you:
    Imagine if I had listen to you two or three years ago and let the BLM do their own thing. They would have published that motorized map for the wilson peak area and the couple atvs we see there now would be a flood. There would be little if any singletrack left for us to enjoy.

    Additionally lets not forget that you sent one of your friends to get a preliminary map from the BLM and she proceeded to ride her dirt bike on the trails as opposed to her mountain bike.

    Idaho Politics, lets see here that is republicans, ranchers, and farmers...
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  19. #19
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    Us Them

    And after you get done explaining mountain bikers like single track they'll all nod and go in the back room and plan some more double track at the exact width of a quad. I agree with iBhudda that it's extreme naivete to think otherwise. They have an agenda and it does not include us. Sounds like the Montanans at least know the score. Beware the self appointed appeaser of quad ruinators.

    As for the guy who has been riding out in the Owyhees for one weekend or something, I've been going out there for five years now and it's a rare outing that I don't see some idiot tearing up the landscape or fresh evidence thereof. It's just a matter of time before Wilson and Reynolds Creeks look like Hemingway Butte.

    And I don't belong to IMBA anymore either. Yeah yeah and when they close all the trails I'll move to Kyrgyzstan where horses are the outback culture not mechanized mayhem.

    Chris Cook does not speak for me!

  20. #20
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xylx
    As for the guy who has been riding out in the Owyhees for one weekend or something, I've been going out there for five years now and it's a rare outing that I don't see some idiot tearing up the landscape or fresh evidence thereof. It's just a matter of time before Wilson and Reynolds Creeks look like Hemingway Butte.
    I think you were referring to my earlier post. You've got me beat and then some...I've only ridden out there 8 times since the beginning of February. I usually head out later in the afternoon (around 4:30pm) so maybe I'm going at the wrong time.

    Can someone give me the Reader's Digest version of exactly what is going on with Wilson Creek? From what I can gather through here....there is a push to make it non-motorized. Who initiated this and when? What do the motorized users have to say about this (I'm guessing they ain't pleased). If it does go to non-motorized use...how does this get enforced? What about having a mixed-use trail system there? Some trails are motorized and some ain't. Would that work?

    Nick

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    Wow

    Just finished reading this thread and I see some good points from all sides and personal opinions, I am glad to see that we are all pasionate about our sport. However do you realize how stupid you sound when you present your bold opinions and yet do nothing? If you dislike how Chris is handling things, step up and do something! I may not agree with everything Chris does, but I am not going to criticize him when I don't do anything. This is a political issue, and building a trail is great, but that is the last step in the whole process. In order to build this trail you need permission from the landowner, whomever they are. If you let things go about there course, then your interests are going to get pushed around.

    It's perfectly ok to not be a member of an organization (IMBA, Sierra, SWIMBA, BRC) especially if they don't represent you. Chris gave you his contact information and is willing to listen for advice, but I don't think complaining or shoving opinions around is helping any of us.
    Last edited by kuna; 03-21-2005 at 03:33 PM. Reason: for some reason blanked out word that was not foul

  22. #22
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    wilson answers

    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    Can someone give me the Reader's Digest version of exactly what is going on with Wilson Creek? From what I can gather through here....there is a push to make it non-motorized. Who initiated this and when? What do the motorized users have to say about this (I'm guessing they ain't pleased). If it does go to non-motorized use...how does this get enforced? What about having a mixed-use trail system there? Some trails are motorized and some ain't. Would that work?

    Nick
    The BLM is stalling or working on the Wilson Peak EA I will find out more later on this week or next. Me and a group of riders have been asking the BLM for about three years to designate the trails around wilson as non-motorized, but leave the roads open to motorized. All of the trails have been mapped and gpsed and then given to the BLM and they regpsed most of them to get better accuracy. Basically wilson is about 30k acres and then south of reynolds canyon there are three motorized parking lots rabbit, hemmingway, and fossil which is around 300k. So the idea is that the motorized trail system would be south of reynolds canyon and the non-motorized would be north of reynolds canyon. It is hard to get across reynolds canyon down low on the front so it seems like a good plan in practice.

    if you enjoy riding in the wilson peak area and would like to see the trails designated as non-motorized trails please write a quick email to Ron Kay(district manager) at [email protected]

    Thanks,
    Chris
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  23. #23
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    Have been riding the Wilson Creek area since 92...

    Most of the motorized traffic in the 90s was confined to the South side of Reynolds Creek. There was an unspoken agreement with the motorcycles, the horse folks, and the few bike riders using the Wilson Creek area (mostly Canyon County folks)....it was the good old days. With the growing ATV population and word of mouth about new trails around Wilson Creek I've witnessed a dramatic increase in motorized traffic in the last four years. The lower popular trails have been trashed (widen from 1' to 4') by ATVs.....

    Chris......I'll give you credit for working with the BLM and attemping to get the Wilson Creek area nonmotorized......but I've often wondered that a SWIMBA president from Massachusetts and a new BLM rep from Colorado might have some difficulty working with the Owyhee County mentality. I had hopes.....still do, bit I'm not very optimistic under our current federal administration (grazing first......recreation...well who knows).

    This is why we were upset with you building trail cairns in the Owyhees before the area could be closed to motorized traffic Chris......you were making it easier for the motorcycles and ATVs to find the new trails!

    Some kuddos need to be said to a couple of the guys (Jack Helton, Fred Kirby) who were building bike trails in the Wilson creek area.........long before Meeker, Beck, and Cook built some of the new additions.......which are great trails btw.

    Chris you are either very myoptic, incredibly naive or know nothing of recent (last thirty years) Idaho history as shown by your anti-Wilderness (full page add in the Statesman on the Boulder/White Clouds) stance and now sitting on the board of the Blue Ribbon Coalition.
    Last edited by Markv; 03-21-2005 at 04:07 PM.

  24. #24
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    Markv, you have been riding there since 1992, then you probably are the most knowledgeable person in this thread (and the Treasure Valley) about the area and changes. Why don't you step up and help Chris? Give him some advice, help guide the young grasshopper.

  25. #25
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    ISO: Barking Spider map

    DELETED

    Meant to start a new thread.

    Sorry

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    What does moving from MA YEARS ago have to do with it? Thank goodness he didn't come from California or he'd surely be strung up. And to think that Chris is showing the dirt bikers all the trail ó "Chris......you were making it easier for the motorcycles and ATVs to find the new trails" ó I've been riding in the area since the early 80s, and I guarantee I know trails that the likes of "California transplants" have no clue exist, even the well-traveled Mr. Cook.

    *Checking my Blue Ribbon Coalition membershp card* Whew, good for 8 more months before renewal.



    Quote Originally Posted by Markv
    Most of the motorized traffic in the 90s was confined to the South side of Reynolds Creek. There was an unspoken agreement with the motorcycles, the horse folks, and the few bike riders using the Wilson Creek area (mostly Canyon County folks)....it was the good old days. With the growing ATV population and word of mouth about new trails around Wilson Creek I've witnessed a dramatic increase in motorized traffic in the last four years. The lower popular trails have been trashed (widen from 1' to 4') by ATVs.....

    Chris......I'll give you credit for working with the BLM and attemping to get the Wilson Creek area nonmotorized......but I've often wondered that a SWIMBA president from Massachusetts and a new BLM rep from Colorado might have some difficulty working with the Owyhee County mentality. I had hopes.....still do, bit I'm not very optimistic under our current federal administration (grazing first......recreation...well who knows).

    This is why we were upset with you building trail cairns in the Owyhees before the area could be closed to motorized traffic Chris......you were making it easier for the motorcycles and ATVs to find the new trails!

    Some kuddos need to be said to a couple of the guys (Jack Helton, Fred Kirby) who were building bike trails in the Wilson creek area.........long before Meeker, Beck, and Cook built some of the new additions.......which are great trails btw.

    Chris you are either very myoptic, incredibly naive or know nothing of recent (last thirty years) Idaho history as shown by your anti-Wilderness (full page add in the Statesman on the Boulder/White Clouds) stance and now sitting on the board of the Blue Ribbon Coalition.

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    Idea! Go have the beer

    Quote Originally Posted by smilycook
    ...lets see here so my line up for this evening is to draft a letter to the BLM on the Wilson Peak EA, organize trailwork signups, and do research and write emails on reopening trail E or I could go have a beer with friends and hang out. So which of these two is selfish?
    Uh, maybe you should consider the beer option with your friends danK and Kuna . . .
    [

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by snixon
    Uh, maybe you should consider the beer option with your friends danK and Kuna . . .
    I bet Cook drinks that Fat Tire crap.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    I bet Cook drinks that Fat Tire crap.
    or Near Beer . . .
    [

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilycook
    if you enjoy riding in the wilson peak area and would like to see the trails designated as non-motorized trails please write a quick email to Ron Kay(district manager)
    Are you guys talking about Wilson Creek (up 21 sort of near Lowman), or Wilson Peak (up 55 near Smiths Ferry)?
    Last edited by justen; 03-21-2005 at 08:33 PM.

  31. #31
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    nah...

    Quote Originally Posted by danK
    I bet Cook drinks that Fat Tire crap.
    I prefer 1554 or a something dark like a black butte porter or a samuel adams, don't drink wine either
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  32. #32
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    Why the hostility?

    I'm always amazed and the way Mountain Bikers are so hostile towards dirt bikers and 4-wheelers I've done all three and find that they each do about as much damage just in different areas. Why can't we all just get along? There are so many dirtbiking cross overs to mountain biking that you'd think we'd have some tolerance. They're all great ways to enjoy the outdoors and if we stick together we can keep trail closures from happening and have a good time in the process. It would be great for fellow trail users to at least tolerate if not appreciate other trail users, we're all out there to have a good time!

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    iBhudda not MCphobe

    I think you're wrong about this thread. This is anti QUAD thread near as I can tell. I did not get the impression from iBhudda he was intolerant of motorcyclists. In my experience in the Owyhees it has never been the MC crowd tearing things up, it's either the quads or idiots in lifted road legal rigs. (and don't say I'm anti 4x4 I happen to own a Jeep Cherokee with a 3" lift, roof mount rack, driving lites, brush bar and hi lift jack, that but for the 1A plates is indistinguishable from the 2C usual suspects) MC and MTB are compatible and for some reason the MC crowd seems to have gotten the enviro message a lot better than the rest of them.

    iBhudda is incorrect to offer only the Devil or Ghandi as choices. I propose Neville Chamberlain. And we all know what happened to Britain in 1940.

  34. #34
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    Core issue: MTB representation to other trail users

    The core issue to this thread isn't even anti-QUAD or anti-motorized use. The core issue is the representation of MTB concerns to other trail use advocacy groups in the region - be they green (e.g. the Sierra Club) or brown (e.g., the BRC) or anything in between.

    IrishBudda's concern, and one I side with, is that MTB representation via SWIMBA and more specifically via Chris Cook is, despite its best intentions, misdirected, uninformed, unilateral and lacks Idaho maturity. As a result it might even be dangerous to mountain biking's best interest in the region.

    A strong mountain biking resume does not necessarily qualify an individual for representing mountain biking to non-mountain bikers. Especially when the politics of the region can be so divisive and entrenched.

    Yeah, this thread is ugly and it's probably one that won't go away.

    Neville Chamberlain. heh heh. That was a good one.
    Last edited by TwistedCrank; 03-25-2005 at 04:01 PM. Reason: too many bong hits
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  35. #35
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    a friend who moved to Boise about a year ago, from Missoula, believes that Chris is ineffective and a toady. of course, this friend doesn't much like people who are two-faced, so maybe that explains it.

    BRC and MTBs are NOT common interests. not all ORVs belong on MTB trails, even though many people ride their MTBs on Moto trails.

    the fallacy of "we must band together" is just that -- A FALLACY. the interests are separate because the trails are different.

    getting in bed with BRC or The Warrior's Society is one way to ensure that your MTB interests/voting power get co-opted by the throttle twisters, and remember -- throttle-twisters are NOT monolithically MTB-friendly. in Missoula, most are rude and even confrontational on the multi-user trails. that's why we'd never band together with them here.

    while we have some moto rides who are also MTB riders, they are in the minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCrank
    IrishBudda's concern, and one I side with, is that MTB representation via SWIMBA and more specifically via Chris Cook is, despite its best intentions, misdirected, uninformed, unilateral and lacks Idaho maturity. As a result it might even be dangerous to mountain biking's best interest in the region.

    A strong mountain biking resume does not necessarily qualify an individual for representing mountain biking to non-mountain bikers. Especially when the politics of the region can be so divisive and entrenched.

    Yeah, this thread is ugly and it's probably one that won't go away.

    Neville Chamberlain. heh heh. That was a good one.

  36. #36
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    sweet so which one of you can do a better job?

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzostrike
    a friend who moved to Boise about a year ago, from Missoula, believes that Chris is ineffective and a toady. of course, this friend doesn't much like people who are two-faced, so maybe that explains it.
    Cool we have now resorted to name calling. I am unsure who your friend is but maybe he should show up to a SWIMBA meeting and see what we have going on instead of putting his blinders on. We meet at the flicks theater at 7pm on the third wednesday of every month or he is more than welcome to show up to one of our many trailwork days.

    I am no ones *****, just because I sit on the BRC board. I have only been on the board since january so you can't really say I have done much since then. I will give it a shot and see what is like and decided to continue or not. I have done a few things:
    1)Made sure mountain bikers were included in wilderness talks down near st. george after tip from BRC
    2)established a communication on travel plans and such between BRC and IMBA to make sure IMBA does not miss somthing important.

    IMBA missed the green river rmp, but luckily BRC commented that mountain bikers should still have access since SUWA(Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance) wanted to restrict mountain bikes to dirt roads, which would have sucked. Most people drive right by this area on the way to moab and don't realize there is tons of riding there.

    Well since everyone on this thread thinks I am ineffective lets list what has gone on in Idaho since I first started participating.

    IMBA:
    stopped Wilson Peak from becoming a motorized trail system
    the number of clubs across the state has doubled
    mountain bikes have been included and considered in the Craters of the Moon Plan
    we can still mountain bike in the BWC
    changed congressmen simpsons enhancement bill vote

    in progress:
    non-motorized trail system at wilson peak
    involvement in bruneau rmp
    involvement in nez/clearwater forest plan
    reroutes in the smokies

    SWIMBA
    recieved a grant from NPS to create a trail system at stack rock, if you think it is good now wait till you see it in a couple of years.
    built eastside trail
    10 groups have adopted trails in the foothills
    17 miles of new trails in the foothills are either built or will be built
    amazing sprockids program
    dirt jump park
    membership system
    grants to build trails given to ada county and ridge to rivers

    in future:
    trail system on nonmotorized side of danskins
    and others...

    things take time, but since most people don't go to planning meetings or give up there lunch time or take vacation time to make it too a meeting about mountain bikes they don't realize what the full process is.

    politically mountain bikes are listened to a little more by our congressmen and senators. I have a very good realtionship with the staff also. No relationship with the govenor but I am working on it.

    Idaho politics is not rocket science and is changing.

    So anyone want to go to a meeting, Wednesday at noon? We are talking about the Bruneau RMP very stimulating stuff Drop me an email if you want to join.

    Anyone sent a message to Ron Kay at the BLM?
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  37. #37
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    Chore issue of appearance of impropriety

    I would like to thank Xylx, Twisted and Gonzostrike for getting this thread back to the core issue. Being on the BRC board has the potential to give the perception and appearance of impropriety with being the President of SWIMBA and IMBA.

    Chris, I have provided a very plausible example of how BRC could you use you and now I will provide an example of how the perception of your participation could set back mountain biking access. A local landowner shuts down access to everyone because he is sick and tired of having his gates pulled over by 4X4, trash thrown every where and broken glass from target practice. The landowner meets with SWIMBA and agrees to leave access open to mtn bikers if they will do one clean up day a year. Later he learns that the President is in bed with the BRC (which represents the user group that has been trashing his property). The owner is fearful that allowing mtn bikers access will somehow leave a chink in the armor and the 4X4 and 4-wheelers will somehow gain access and continue to trash his property. He has heard of this thing called adverse possession and is scared and thinks SWIMBA and IMBA might just be BRC - the big bad wolf in grandmothers clothes. Although the perceptions may be imaginary the perception alone is enough for bikers to lose access to areas they are currently riding. I can think of one area right now that this is possible outcome in the continued negotiation for access.

    A similar scenario could play out if the landowner hated the Sierra Club and you were on their board. There is a reason elected officials step down from boards and it is the possibility of perceived impropriety.

    Chris, you have done an excellent job of building new trails. I think those in Boise should bow when looking toward Stack Rock and give homage to Dan and Dave. I would say the same about you but right now you have the potential to do as much harm as good.


  38. #38
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    and where is this..

    I can think of one area right now that this is possible outcome in the continued negotiation for access.
    area?
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  39. #39
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    Answer the questions

    Chris,

    I will answer your question when you answer mine.


    Happy trails,


  40. #40
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    what questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irishbuddha
    Chris,

    I will answer your question when you answer mine.


    Happy trails,

    I don't see any question marks in your previous post.
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  41. #41
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    Take Responsibilty!

    My experience of Chris is he act's more like Buddha than the Devil or Gandhi (O.K. maybe all three sometimes). What I do know is that he keeps an open mind while receiving criticism from others. I know religion can be used for many purposes, but I hope you can explain to me how your tone "Enlightens" this forum. Sorry Chris to bring in the religious reference, seemed kind of ironic.

    You seem to be interested in making sure "A local landowner" keeps a trail open - come clean man - If you've spoken with said land owner and can't persuade said land owner that having mountain bikers on his/her land is a benefit than maybe you should let someone else negotiate access. It sounds like you attended the SWIMBA meeting with said land owner. If the trail closes - That would be terrible.
    Last edited by Crash_Burn; 03-28-2005 at 03:02 PM. Reason: typo

  42. #42
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    I think he asked if you were for sale.

    I think he asked if you were for sale.
    Quote Originally Posted by smilycook
    I don't see any question marks in your previous post.

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