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Thread: Hulls Tonight

  1. #1
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    Hulls Tonight

    rode hulls tonight and i was pretty dang slow on it for what i like. maybe a year off does that.

    actually a pretty tech little trail when the speed gets up. the better/best riders in the valley prolly have good technique for keeping that front wheel grippng on those off-camber corners and rippng at good speed.

    anybody rider looking for technical features to launch off of will open their eyes and see plenty and this is after the "illegal" ones were taken away, these are natural.
    the armoed right turn (I think we built with Smily cool a few years back) it's still in place nicely. yeah i want to know how to skate over that like it not even there!

    tonight, call me Mr. braking, afriad the fronts gonna wash, too anticipatory about someone coming round the bend, why do you have those big pads on your toptube, why aren't you riding faster, your front wheel feels like it's gonna push and awsh out kinda guy!
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    Nobody cares what kind of bike you ride.

  3. #3
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    Well not exaggerated to that point, Mr. irreverant; I was having fun but def going slower than I can - a lot of that was because people are coming up! Actually, to be totally honest Dirk, you DO have one up on me since you don't worry about anything and just enjoy riding your bike -whereas me, I feel my age and time going fast and want to get as good (technically) as my abilities (and courage) will let me!

    Same thing happened to me with surfing, actually. Living in Socal and seeing almost all professional surfing events at "The Pier" (Huntington Beach Pier). I have seen the best surfers in the world, compete and free surf, since the 70's, and these guys are ABSOLUTELY EXPLOSIVE. Unbelievable power, speed, flow. I just could not surf like that and I was frustrated all through my surfing career! Except for the days when I was in the zone and the flow, but even those it was more setting up for one or two moves while missing the big picture.

    Those guys would FLY down the beach in big, fast surf, doing super hard, square bottom turns, explosive off the tops and roundhouse cutbacks without losing any speed. Maybe you'll find a parallel in your skiing I dunno
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    rode hulls tonight and i was pretty dang slow on it for what i like. maybe a year off does that.

    actually a pretty tech little trail when the speed gets up. the better/best riders in the valley prolly have good technique for keeping that front wheel grippng on those off-camber corners and rippng at good speed.

    anybody rider looking for technical features to launch off of will open their eyes and see plenty and this is after the "illegal" ones were taken away, these are natural.
    the armoed right turn (I think we built with Smily cool a few years back) it's still in place nicely. yeah i want to know how to skate over that like it not even there!

    tonight, call me Mr. braking, afriad the fronts gonna wash, too anticipatory about someone coming round the bend, why do you have those big pads on your toptube, why aren't you riding faster, your front wheel feels like it's gonna push and awsh out kinda guy!

    hulls in the early evening is not the trail to get your speed up. specially the right handers (which are the blind corners on this trail)! if you "skate over that like it's not even there" you'll more than likely skate right into another rider or hiker.
    if you want a trail to go faster on, try 3 Bears (less blind corners), 5 Mile/Orchard, Hard Guy or even Scott's (except for that on turn 100 yards before the midway gate).

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    Hey Gary, yes, completely agreed! Even if one does let it go in the evening, there's that nagging mental red flag that "I could slam somebody at any time", and that would only result trail being closed to mtn bikers.

    Other than that, I find Hulls to be actually more technical than I realized when you add a LOT of speed. My challenge is making those right handers and off camber sections while keeping that front wheel biting! (rear can drift, that's fine). And since I don't have BMX style (wish I did), I can't manual multiple bumps so have to suck them up.

    Going really super fast down hulls is both an attitude, plus looking ahead (not down at the front wheel), and using good body english to compress the bike.

    Maybe Friday evenings or Sunday afternoons are better for performance riding on that trail?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    Hey Gary, yes, completely agreed! Even if one does let it go in the evening, there's that nagging mental red flag that "I could slam somebody at any time", and that would only result trail being closed to mtn bikers.

    Other than that, I find Hulls to be actually more technical than I realized when you add a LOT of speed. My challenge is making those right handers and off camber sections while keeping that front wheel biting! (rear can drift, that's fine). And since I don't have BMX style (wish I did), I can't manual multiple bumps so have to suck them up.

    Going really super fast down hulls is both an attitude, plus looking ahead (not down at the front wheel), and using good body english to compress the bike.

    Maybe Friday evenings or Sunday afternoons are better for performance riding on that trail?
    there is NEVER a good time to SPEED down hulls. N E V E R ! ! and drifting the rear tire isnt a good for the trail either.
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  7. #7
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    For the safety of all trail users Hulls should probably be one way for mtbers. Up only. I hate to say that, but it might keep us from being banished from the trail all together. Frist time some one on a 40 lb. gravity bike (or any bike) hitts a hiker it's all over for us. I've never seen anyone on the board, or anyone else I know, going to fast or out of control down Hulls. But I have caught and verbally abused a couple idiots I dont know for that.
    Am I being kind?

  8. #8
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    Hey Patrick, you being an advanced rider you know I mean not skidding, the kind of drift that isn't initiated with much if any rear brake
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  9. #9
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    I think Hulls is a super fun trail.

    But the only time I am out on the trails, whether on foot or the bike, is immediately after work....just like a buttload of other folks this time of the year. To ride it in any other time during the week is just not doable for me.

    The last time I was on Hulls I was doing a hike before the SWIMBA meeting at the Foothills Learning Center. I was out on it for about 1.5 hours and this is how it went:
    Hike for a couple of mins
    Stop for bike or two or three
    Hike for a couple of mins
    Stop for dogs running loose
    Hike for a couple of mins
    Step aside for runners
    Hike for a couple of mins
    Stop for more bikers
    Hike for a couple of mins
    ....well you get the idea.

    Dirk bumped up a handful of threads that have discussed issues regarding Hulls over the past couple of years so nothing really ain't new except for Warren's lil' encounter yesterday.

    Hulls seems to be the most polarizing trail we have in the Lower Footies. And I don't think there is an easy solution to make all users happy. Therefore I choose to ride elsewhere. For me, Hulls is too much of a hassle to be really enjoyable.

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    Yes, unfortunately agreed. Going fast should not equal out of control either.

    A lot of riders were actually climbing up the steep section to top of Sidewinder last night too. I like to rip as fast as my brain will let me down that, barring my lack of current ability to manual multiple bumps (but I can manual the first of a series and suck up and pump the backside of the other one - or jump them). Anyway, that's still pretty wide open but if folks start climbing it then that's going to become the same situation.

    Same ol same ol story every year -the footies are fun but too crowded. We really DO need more good trails.

    That being said, I kinda like what RtoR did with the top of Hulls/Kestral.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    Hey Patrick, you being an advanced rider you know I mean not skidding, the kind of drift that isn't initiated with much if any rear brake
    and being an advanced rider ( using the quote ) I know that ANY of the foothills trails is not the place for that kind of riding and speed. save it for the dh course.
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    off leash dog areas

    I've noticed that the Hull's Parking area by the Foothills Learning Center now states that once you leave the parking area in both directions (up kestrel and up hulls) that the trails are controlled off leash areas. I was surprised by Hulls being OK for off leash. I can't fund updated maps to confirm or deny this. Can anyone confirm?

  13. #13
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    This is what I found on the R2R site....

    Leash Requirements for Dogs

    The vast majority of Foothills trails are Controlled Off-leash. This means that dog owners must have a leash with them at all times, and their dogs must be under voice command and no further than 30 feet away. This ensures that dogs will not harass wildlife, trample sensitive plant species or become tangled with other trail users.

    Within the Hulls Gulch Reserve and Military Reserve, several trails have On-Leash requirements. These requirements are designed to protect riparian vegetation and to minimize conflicts in these heavily used areas. All trailheads within both of these Reserves are also On-Leash. Failure to comply with leash restrictions is a violation of Boise City ordinance, and violators are subject to a $25 fine.


    The following trails are On-Leash:

    Military Reserve: Freestone Trail #22B, Toll Road Trail #27A, Cottonwood Trail #27

    Hulls Gulch/Camelsback Reserve: All Camelsback Trails, Red Winged Blackbird Trail #35A, Gold Finch Trail #35, Hulls Pond Loop #34, Lower Red Fox Trail #36

    All other Ridge to Rivers Trails are Controlled Off-Leash. Your pet must be within 30 feet of you, and you must carry a leash and waste bag at all times.


    Under the guidelines (470k PDF file), dog owners must ensure that pets are:

    * Within 30 feet and within sight
    * Prevented from harassing people, wildlife or other pets
    * Leashed on all trails during critical winter months (Jan. 1-April 15)

    Surveys show that nearly 3 of 10 Foothills visitors recreate with a dog yet only 3 of 10 dogs are leashed.

    The controlled off-leash trail concept is being launched on a trial basis; its continued implementation depends on how responsibly dog owners observe the guidelines.

  14. #14
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    outdated

    Quote Originally Posted by BelaySlave
    This is what I found on the R2R site....
    Wait - just reread that - I did not see that on the R2R site. Anyway, that seems to be mroe consistent with the signage that is posted...

    Still don't understand why folks bother to pick up poop in the green bag, then just leave it on the side of the trail (I'm sure with the thought that they will pick it up when they walk back by, but that NEVER happens).
    Last edited by boisematt; 04-04-2007 at 11:02 AM.

  15. #15
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    heres an idea

    kid leashes, so they dont trample the pretty flowers and scare wildlife, and stay within 30ft
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    That's hilarious, LOL!
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    Less Trail Sanitizing

    Why can't the trail wipes just leave things along. The wife and I came down hulls last night and found her favorite tech section had been wiped clean. You know, the quick little up with the two side by side boulders and grouping of smaller baby heads right behind them. Looked like some of the nasty little baby heads had been removed and the boulder on the right had been moved further to the right. This trail doesn't have to be handicap accessible does it? If it gets too tough, let bikers walk it. Don't take away the few remaining funs spots. I think the trail wipes are prepping it for an asphalt connection to the Boise River Greenbelt.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelbender
    Why can't the trail wipes just leave things along. The wife and I came down hulls last night and found her favorite tech section had been wiped clean. You know, the quick little up with the two side by side boulders and grouping of smaller baby heads right behind them. Looked like some of the nasty little baby heads had been removed and the boulder on the right had been moved further to the right. This trail doesn't have to be handicap accessible does it? If it gets too tough, let bikers walk it. Don't take away the few remaining funs spots. I think the trail wipes are prepping it for an asphalt connection to the Boise River Greenbelt.
    You mean this section?
    Me and another ranger met at that exact section today and we were just shaking our heads... This section was such a natural speed bump on the fast part of the trail for most riders. Now it's just another mini berm shot. I'll forward to the R2R trailcrew to see if there is anything that can be done to restore the section to what it was before (but their plate is already full also). If the folk(s) that smoothed out the section only spent the time volunteering for one of the official trail maintenance sessions instead of doing this, it would've been time better invested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelbender
    Why can't the trail wipes just leave things along. The wife and I came down hulls last night and found her favorite tech section had been wiped clean. You know, the quick little up with the two side by side boulders and grouping of smaller baby heads right behind them. Looked like some of the nasty little baby heads had been removed and the boulder on the right had been moved further to the right. This trail doesn't have to be handicap accessible does it? If it gets too tough, let bikers walk it. Don't take away the few remaining funs spots. I think the trail wipes are prepping it for an asphalt connection to the Boise River Greenbelt.

    I came down Hulls this afternoon and noticed the same thing. I thought it was just me, but that section now has a trail right through the middle of it. Itís bummer as that was a fun section. I noticed that many of the rocky sections have gotten much smoother. It is certainly not that my skill level has improved, but rather many of the rocks are no longer there.

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  21. #21
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    Wow that's sad.


    Maybe R2R should consider putting up signs along Hulls and other areas that say....

    "DON'T **** WITH THE TRAILS!!!"

    OK maybe not that extreme....but something to the effect that trail "maintenance" should only be done by authorized personnel. Hell....I'll help put them up if need be.

  22. #22
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    here in Teton Valley, BUFF is a four letter word.





















    (well, not really, but I just came up with it, and I think it is clever...we actually need more 'buff' trails!)
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    And then we eat them."

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  23. #23
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    Education

    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    You mean this section?
    Me and another ranger met at that exact section today and we were just shaking our heads... This section was such a natural speed bump on the fast part of the trail for most riders. Now it's just another mini berm shot. I'll forward to the R2R trailcrew to see if there is anything that can be done to restore the section to what it was before (but their plate is already full also). If the folk(s) that smoothed out the section only spent the time volunteering for one of the official trail maintenance sessions instead of doing this, it would've been time better invested.

    Could we possibly have R2R post a sign at this point in the trail showing the picture and have verbage telling the average person that this is unacceptable?
    I think that the majority of us on MTBR are avid mtbers and know the "rules", however, Bob riding with his daughter Saturday afternoon does not paruse this board. I have heard, and read enough to think that it is probably people who have the best interest of themselves and/or significant others in mind when sanatizing the trails. They think that they are doing the community a favor by dumbing down the trail essentially so that nobody gets hurt.
    The average person doesn't understand the "if you can't ride it, walk it" theory.

    SO,
    maybe it would help to post a sign at this point in the trail and inform these people why they are not to do any unauthorized trail maintenance.

    Any thoughts or comments?
    BoiseBoy

  24. #24
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    eXactly

    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseBoy
    Could we possibly have R2R post a sign at this point in the trail showing the picture and have verbage telling the average person that this is unacceptable?
    I think that the majority of us on MTBR are avid mtbers and know the "rules", however, Bob riding with his daughter Saturday afternoon does not paruse this board. I have heard, and read enough to think that it is probably people who have the best interest of themselves and/or significant others in mind when sanatizing the trails. They think that they are doing the community a favor by dumbing down the trail essentially so that nobody gets hurt.
    The average person doesn't understand the "if you can't ride it, walk it" theory.

    SO,
    maybe it would help to post a sign at this point in the trail and inform these people why they are not to do any unauthorized trail maintenance.

    Any thoughts or comments?
    I couldn't agree more with what you said.

  25. #25
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    I agree with Boise Boy

    The people that are sanitizing the trails probably think that they are helping and, unless they are educated, will continue to do it while thinking that are performing a community service.

    How about some signs that say "Please, do not conduct unauthorized trail maintenance or construction, including the removal of obstacles!" or some such?

    TF

  26. #26
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    Well, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Hulls is a decent trail to go up in my opinion but down, I don't know. Maybe in the off peak times, like after dark! If I ride hulls, I ride up it and usually come down sidewinder which can be busy as well. It is unfortunate that so many people climb sidewinder instead of #4 to get to the top as it has got to be one of the funnest downhill rips in that area (my opinion). I do understand people not wanting to ride up #4 risking motorcycle traffic.

    For now, Hulls is probably out of the picture, especially during peak times. I had a nice experience there last weekend as I was climbing up. Some ace in his slick racing jersey came FLYING down the trail, right past me, not even slowing down a bit. By the time I was looking forward again after sharing some choice words with him, 2 of his "team mates" came barreling down the trail at me. I decided that I owed it to them to to take up the trail as I was climbing and exaggerate my fear by swerving all over as the flew by. I'd like to think they were cussing me for causing then to have to slow down a bit on THE BUSIEST TRAIL IN THE BOISE FOOTHILLS. That being said, be warned that there are some real idiots out there who have no idea of what trail etiquette is. Please be prepared to reap what you sow if you are one of the people and you run in to me. Keep your fingers crossed that I can't get back up!

    On that note I would like to wish everyone a safe and FUN weekend of riding your trail of choice. If any of you are looking for a spot less traveled and haven't ridden the swan falls area yet, give it a shot. Canyon, river, single and double track, turkey vultures and eagles, petroglyphs, etc.... Worth a look!

  27. #27
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    That photo really tells the story. I have no trail buiding certifications, but here are my suggestions for a rebuild.

    Place a continuous bed of larger rocks along the sloping sidehill for those that want to take it on the high. This should stop the future erosion and if done correctly could make for a challenging alternate line.

    Replace the two boulders in the forground and to the right side that were removed and relocate the smaller boulders uphill and behind them to recreate the left and right turns previously needed to make it through. Of course it had multiple lines anyway.

    More signs on the trail explaining the does and don'ts would be a good thing.

    A side note, restrict the dog to people ratio to 1:1 and put them on a leash.

  28. #28
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    the picture posted below is where I caught the guy when he did that, frustrating. Visi, let me know if it can be restored, I would like to get involved with that.
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  29. #29
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    Hulls is UP only

    ...spread the word.



    or at least it should be.

    How about, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday, hulls is up only for bikes, and the other days it is down only.

    Not to continue the doom saying, as it has been going on for some time, but if all interested parties, can accurately predict a possible future, don't you think we have a responsibility to act on it?

    Overestimating the true depth of human cluelessness/lack or regard/attention to detail will be a very grave mistake in this case.

    I personally will not ride down Hulls,(Bob's is just as fun, as well as Orchard/5 Mile) without the fear of running someone over).

    R2R - you are our only hope. Save us from ourselves.

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    taking bait...

    If your personal conviction is to ride up Hulls only, more power to you Mark. Respectfully, I like riding up it as much as riding down it. The difference may be that I descend carefully, with a bear bell attached, not skidding, always looking far down the trail, going ultra-slow as I approach blind corners, yielding the right of way to climbers/hikers/etc., being pleasant and friendly as we pass each other. I think avoiding riding it at peak traffic hours is also why I almost never encounter problems on Hulls.

    I never said this was going to be an interesting post.

  31. #31
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    This is interesting. Do you feel funny? I do.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombin4X
    I think avoiding riding it at peak traffic hours is also why I almost never encounter problems on Hulls.

    Agreed.

    Riding down Hull's is fun, but I only do it in off-peak hours. Just before dusk I find that there's very few people coming up the trail, and it's pretty safe to come down it - not as fast as I can, but at a moderate pace, keeping my eyes open for the rare person who's looking to stay out after dark.

    Climbing up Hull's is as fun to me as riding down it, and can be done most any time. And when there's hikers or other bikers ahead of me, I'll gladly slow the pace down and chat with the person as they pass.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombin4X
    If your personal conviction is to ride up Hulls only, more power to you Mark. Respectfully, I like riding up it as much as riding down it. The difference may be that I descend carefully, with a bear bell attached, not skidding, always looking far down the trail, going ultra-slow as I approach blind corners, yielding the right of way to climbers/hikers/etc., being pleasant and friendly as we pass each other. I think avoiding riding it at peak traffic hours is also why I almost never encounter problems on Hulls.

    I never said this was going to be an interesting post.

    I found it VERY interesting. I think that is how hulls needs to be riden every time, I thought georgzilla and I were the only ones who wore bear bells while desending, I think it should be mandatory for the foothills.
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  34. #34
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    Yeah buddy! Do you think George's could place an order for some bells and then all the Mtb Trail Ambassadors on this board could buy them as part of our trail advocacy?


  35. #35
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    this you mention..

    interests me greatly oh great pumptrack pumper and beer top popper, let me do some diggin' and I will get back to you. I was going to mention such an action at the last swimba meeting, alas, I was not able to attend.
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  36. #36
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    Ha funny...yeah this would be a good thing. I've had many a runner thank me for the jingle jangle of the bear bell.

    Speaking of which....pumptrack is for sale. I'll throw in the house and yard for any interested parties.....

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombin4X
    Speaking of which....pumptrack is for sale. I'll throw in the house and yard for any interested parties.....
    Does the house come with a slide?

    http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=270121

  38. #38
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    Does it have a basement to keep the gimp? Or two gimps so they don't get lonely?
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by discfor1
    ...How about, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday, hulls is up only for bikes, and the other days it is down only.

    Quote Originally Posted by discfor1
    R2R - you are our only hope. Save us from ourselves.
    FWIW, I discussed something similar to this with R2R many years ago. At the time there were a few trails back East that were being designated as clockwise during even months and as counter-clockwise during odd months. Tim B and I had discussed/debated making Hull's up only during certain months and down at others. The decision was that it would be too difficult to enforce and that R2R did not have the resources to change the signage each month. Who knows, maybe the times have changed and Boise is ready for something like that now.

    Personally I think that Hull's Gulch is a great trail, but I stay off it during Daylight Saving Time and just ride it in the off-season. Even then I try to send a slower rider down in front of me with a decent head start t clear the trail.

    The big problem with Hull's is that the entire trail is within 3 miles of major parking lots. It seems to me that most hikers and many runners only use the first 3 miles of most trails, so I consider those areas a "slow riding zone".

  40. #40
    Sheepherder/Cat Herder Moderator
    Reputation: Visicypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    give 'em a stationary bike to spin a dyno...and train them to ride courteously while showing the never-ending loops of DH films and Zoom.

    Keep them well hydrated.
    ...building wherever they'll let me...

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