Traction Tune on a Ripmo ??- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Traction Tune on a Ripmo ??

    Like most on this forum, I have been checking out the HD5. Sweet bike, one that I will have to demo sometime just to check it out. What caught my interest is the "Traction Tune" philosophy. I checked out a video by Jeff Kendall Weed where he talks with one of the engineers at Ibis about it. He mentioned that the Ripley V4 also was designed with "Traction Tune" and that it would be available on the Ripmo in the near future.

    I just got a Ripmo this summer and am digging it. Wandering if they are going to make any changes to the Ripmo linkages like the Ripmo AF has (Ripmo 2?) or if it will be a different tune for the shocks. Either way, I am confident I have a more than capable bike for my riding style.

    Thought I would throw this out for speculation, any thoughts ?

  2. #2
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    Great question. I was about to post a new thread asking if anyone had valid info about a new carbon Ripmo with the AF's linkage/geo/kinematics.

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    No info but the writing is on the wall, new Ripmo carbon w AF or slacker numbers isnít far out. Iíd bet next spring at the latest.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    No info but the writing is on the wall, new Ripmo carbon w AF or slacker numbers isnít far out. Iíd bet next spring at the latest.


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    If that is the case I will be holding on to my Ripmo for a long time. The AF stretches it out to hd5 length and might take away the overall trail feel out of it. I should read a few more AF reviews though to see what people are saying.

  5. #5
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    BikeMag alludes to this in their write up on the HD5

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    No info but the writing is on the wall, new Ripmo carbon w AF or slacker numbers isnít far out. Iíd bet next spring at the latest.


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    Not convinced of this, Ripmo is pretty new, and Ibis stated the AF is targeted at different use, not just a cheaper option. I actually hope they keep the Ripmo as a well-balanced and capable trail bike that can be built light, I think it nails it both up and downhill. AF is great if your main focus is the down, enduro, or park laps.

    I'm still hoping the next big push by Ibis is a 100mm XC/downcountry bike.

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    I'd be curious to know if the new rock guard above the lower link on the HD5 will make it's way to the current Ripmo and Ripley V4. It appears to be screwed in so I assume there would have to be some change to the current molds for that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Not convinced of this, Ripmo is pretty new, and Ibis stated the AF is targeted at different use, not just a cheaper option. I actually hope they keep the Ripmo as a well-balanced and capable trail bike that can be built light, I think it nails it both up and downhill. AF is great if your main focus is the down, enduro, or park laps.

    I'm still hoping the next big push by Ibis is a 100mm XC/downcountry bike.
    The idea that people buying aluminum bikes are aggressive and thus need a more aggressive bike is nonsense. In my opinion this is marketing jargon for this is the new geo and weíre not ready to drop the carbon version yet. I agree the carbon Ripmo is the perfect trail bike but eventually it will change regardless . Those updates will be slacker and more progressive and where will that land you? Sounds like a carbon AF to me.


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  9. #9
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    am I missing something, or couldn't they achieve most of the traction tune by speccing a different shock (and even having it available as an aftermarket purchase/tune) would it need a new linkage?!

  10. #10
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    "Traction Tune" is just lighter damping. If you have a X2 and Grip2 back off the adjusters. If you have less adjustable suspension send it to Diaz Suspension Design with a request for a light, plush tune.
    Keep the Country country.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    "Traction Tune" is just lighter damping. If you have a X2 and Grip2 back off the adjusters. If you have less adjustable suspension send it to Diaz Suspension Design with a request for a light, plush tune.
    This^ however wouldn't you still need to have the leverage curve calculated on the lighter dampening?

    Wasn't DT saying this back when he started using the DW link? That nobody made a dampener that was light enough. They would ride it, ask for less dampening, ride it, ask for less, bla, bla...

    I've only demoed, but I added in more compression dampening from my initial set up. It felt great at first, but a couple hours in, and on really steep grinds I was reaching for that lever like I am with just about any bike...?

    Maybe it's all the Pizza and sitting at my computer tho...

    Interesting though, if the leverage curve was based hand in hand with really light shock dampening isn't that gonna kill any chance of a coil? Seems like a coil would have been a desirable spec for the HD5? (or am I wrong about that?)

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    Seems like a coil would have been a desirable spec for the HD5? (or am I wrong about that?)
    I'd say a coil is only a desirable spec on frames that are too progressive for an air shock. Shocks like the X2 work really well and are lighter. I'm running a coil DHX2 on my Capra 29 because its progression made it not use as much travel as I'd like on harder hits when running 30% sag. I had to choose more sag or very firm deep travel. I'd happily take the weight savings of an X2 with a little less frame progression and from my experience running a Vivid air on my DH bike I don't think the extra friction or heating and firming on long downhills are noticable.

    My next enduro frame will be the Ransom because it's 2lbs lighter and no reviews have knocked the feel of its suspension or shock despite the air spring and lack of a reservoir. Enduro bikes have gotten pretty heavy lately but there are some of us at altitude who still prize light weight and climbing efficiency in our downhill sleds.
    Keep the Country country.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    "Traction Tune" is just lighter damping. If you have a X2 and Grip2 back off the adjusters. If you have less adjustable suspension send it to Diaz Suspension Design with a request for a light, plush tune.
    This

    Traction tune is just marketing for super light tune. This is a good thing though.

    The DW rear extends under pedaling in the middle of the cassette and needs almost no high speed compression. This is exactly how I have my X2 setup on my Ripmo.

    The system they are using to tune the suspension is a great tool to see exactly what is going on. I approve of the light tune, but don't care for the wow factor of "Traction Tune".

    I don't want a slacker Ripmo, but I may be in the minority. Mine is a do it all trail bike. It climbs, descends, jumps and has perfect balance for my style of riding. The next Ripmo will of course need to be different.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  15. #15
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    Think I'm still a bit baffled by "Traction tune". The hot take seems to be that DW link is so efficient you don't need much damping to pedal efficiently. But, it's low-speed damping that combats pedal bob, but seems like Ibis is mainly talking about lighter high-speed damping. Hans said as much in his PB comments: "you may still need low-speed damping to keep the bike composed" or some such.

    If this is the case, how do you drastically lightening HSR without ending up with a bike that ejects the rider on big hits? Or maybe "traction tune" is not for riders who are taking such hits? The whole "helping average Joes achieve suspension performance like an EWS racer" line maybe implies that's the case?

  16. #16
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    Yeah, I can't see how HSR or LSR should be set any differently than we have been. For most people that's "as fast as possible without bucking or skittering".
    Keep the Country country.

  17. #17
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    I read the thread title as "tractive tune", as in Vorsprung's service.

    https://vorsprungsuspension.com/coll...eluxe-air-coil

    Reading through, I think you guys could learn a bit from Steve and perhaps also from his Tuesday Tune video series. Here's the primer:



    And here's the more in-depth one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yUdJAuUOr4



    Just to add my opinion: I have faith in Ibis, since I like the direction they've been going, and I like that they're basing changes off of data, and then verifying with feel, rather than just through feeling and theory (often oversimplified) with trial and error and perhaps getting confused by placebo.

  18. #18
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    The AF geo doesnít make the bike handle poorly or lazy. Iíve been on both and on the same trails. Take a look at the top mid travel 29ers to see. The new ht2, sb130, offering, etc. Iím sure the next Ripmo will be a carbon af basically and itíll ride great and allow more shock options. As for traction tune, if you notice Jeff Kendall Weed was having a hell of a time with it. Aggressive riders often need a more supportive bike. In that video, they set his tune per the app and he was all over the place then he finally just firmed it up and ignored the app didnít he? I almost fully opened up my suspension today as a test and it was ok, still too loose and uncontrolled if youíre riding fast and hitting doubles. Santa Cruzís new linkage is super plush and traction tune may just be Ibis trying to keep up with the Joneses.
    2020 Ripmo AF

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Reading through, I think you guys could learn a bit from Steve and perhaps also from his Tuesday Tune video series. Here's the primer:
    I think the key point comes at 9:30 in the video, which is that different people like their suspension to feel differently.

    Inspired by the whole Traction Tune discussion, I did some foolin' with my Ripmo over the weekend's rides. Running a 36 Grip2 and X2, so both 4-way adjustable. I'd dialed in what I thought was a pretty good tune, but hadn't strayed far from it in a while so thought I'd experiment.

    Speeding things up significantly on both ends, the bike sure does get lively and plush. I could certainly see the appeal of that feel, particularly to newer riders who mostly want to keep their wheels on the ground. But as you'd expect, as speed and airtime increase things get hairy, and this feel is definitely not for me.

    I'm now dialing damping back in a few clicks at a time, which is an interesting exercise. I think I may end up a couple clicks faster on HSC/HSR than I started out, but I gotta have some low-speed support. Anyway, good to mess around with different tunes, and I don't see a downside to overall lighter damping ranges.

  20. #20
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    So far, this thread has provided me with some valuable info, glad I started it. I am like many, find myself into gearheaditis mode more than I need too , but what the hell, keeps things interesting. My Ripmo has the DPX2 with a Fox Grip2 on the front. Wish I could run the X2, but I am a clyde and weigh in about 260 lbs geared up right now. With that said, I am now a bit more motivated to get my setup a bit more dialed in and learn more about doing so. Wish that Ibis had the DPX2 Factory as an option to start with, at least the gearhead in me thinks so.

    FWIW, Evan Geankoplis, who races on the IBIS US Enduro team, kicks ass on a large Ripmo with DVO Suspension (one of the sponsors) and is making his mark on the EWS circuit (See him here). (He also sold me my Ripmo at River Rat Bikes in Sacramento, yes shameless plug).

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    ..., and I don't see a downside to overall lighter damping ranges.
    The thing is every custom shock tuner will say if your in the medium size and weight zone than most riders will be OK with a stock tune; but if your above or below than any stock shock tune is going to be off.

    SO... it seems like any big/tall rider is going to end up riding a wet noodle with "traction control" and it being a lighter than light tune?

    Made me think; I made the comment that, "I reach for that lever on almost every bike i ride". And it's made no difference if it's SP/Maestro/Horst/or a couple DW flavors, etc. AND... I'm a big and tall rider whose never sent a shock off for a custom tune.

    Probably not a coincidence...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    The thing is every custom shock tuner will say if your in the medium size and weight zone than most riders will be OK with a stock tune; but if your above or below than any stock shock tune is going to be off.

    SO... it seems like any big/tall rider is going to end up riding a wet noodle with "traction control" and it being a lighter than light tune?

    Made me think; I made the comment that, "I reach for that lever on almost every bike i ride". And it's made no difference if it's SP/Maestro/Horst/or a couple DW flavors, etc. AND... I'm a big and tall rider whose never sent a shock off for a custom tune.

    Probably not a coincidence...
    What weight range do bike companies consider average?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    What weight range do bike companies consider average?
    Great question! I've swear I read 185lb somewhere, but don't see where I would have read that...? (5 second google saw an Aussie website using between 60 kg and 90 kg as an example, which should be about 185lb? But nothing conclusive, also like just about everything else in mountain biking it's probably NOT a standard... various companies probably using different numbers... )


    At any rate, at 6'3", 245lb in my birthday suit I''m just assuming I'm out of the bell curve!

  24. #24
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    Well, I had installed a warranty replacement shock in my Ripmo, and realized after a full weekend of riding that it's a new "traction tune" X2. I set it to the same exact pressure/volume/settings as my old shock and did notice the bike felt a bit more plush/smooth through high speed chatter, but definitely didn't lose any pop when jumping etc. The sting seems to be taken off the square edge stuff which is a plus to me. FWIW I'm 210lb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.s67 View Post
    Well, I had installed a warranty replacement shock in my Ripmo, and realized after a full weekend of riding that it's a new "traction tune" X2. I set it to the same exact pressure/volume/settings as my old shock and did notice the bike felt a bit more plush/smooth through high speed chatter, but definitely didn't lose any pop when jumping etc. The sting seems to be taken off the square edge stuff which is a plus to me. FWIW I'm 210lb.
    Just wondering, did you go from an '18 shock to a '19/'20?

    My suspension shop told me (hopefully correctly) that there are no shims in the X2 rebound circuit, and someone else posted that the only difference in the DPX2 tune is the rebound. I asked Ibis about the X2 and they did say to ask Fox for the "traction tune", so guessing that's just a lighter compression. I'm 200lbs and run very open compression already so hoping I'm already on the traction tune

  26. #26
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    No, I had the current model as my bike was purchased in August.

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    I tried the "traction tune" on my X2 on the weekend - i.e. the settings published for the HD5. Obviously this isn't 100% as my compression tune would be different and the Ripmo is a different bike, but I still found it pretty nice and I will continue to experiment with the very fast rebound settings.

    For my pressure of 205 PSI the changes were:
    HSC - no change
    LSC - close by 5 clicks
    HSR - open 8 clicks
    LSR - open 8 clicks

    I found the bike to be very active, but not uncontrolled. The extra LSC kept the pedalling manners under control, without that I think it would be a bit of a pogo stick. Travel usage was about the same as before, and the most noticeable difference was that the bike felt like it was always ready for the next section of trail. Obviously I was getting some pack with my old settings which the traction tune settings helping it recover and regain it's ride height and composure more quickly.


    https://www.ibiscycles.com/bikes/mojo-hd5
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Traction Tune on a Ripmo ??-screen-shot-2019-11-26-1.18.46-pm.jpg  


  28. #28
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    Traction Tune on a Ripmo ??

    FYI: Ripmo Traction Tune update for current owner

    From: Chuck Ibis
    Date: November 7, 2019
    Subject: Re: Ripmo Traction Tune update for current owner.


    The only changes from your tune to Traction Tune on the 36 Grip2 Factory and the DPX2 are change to light rebound tune.

    The fork tunes can be DZDR, DZNN, DZDS or DZNP (those should all be the same tune, not sure why they need all those different ones).
    And the shock tune is DZRW

    Scot
    Scot Nicol, AKA "Chuck Ibis", Founder, Ibis Cycles
    =================

  29. #29
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    Traction Tune on a Ripmo ??

    Xxx

  30. #30
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    Has anyone had their DPX2 changed from the old tune to the new traction tune and noticed much of a difference?
    My DPX2 needs service so just wondering if I should do a standard service or go for the new tune while it is being re-built.
    Ripmo v1

  31. #31
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    I've been looking at the same thing. Have had many conversations with others on this topic. General consensus seems to be that it will likely only benefit the lighter rider. I'm ~180 lbs and it doesn't sound like it will buy me anything.

  32. #32
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    Above, Scott says the difference is reducing high speed rebound. So, that only benefits people running less air pressure. It seems to me it would result in bucking for people who run high air pressures.
    Keep the Country country.

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