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  1. #1
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    Severe tire rub on chainstay yoke

    Hi everyone!

    I was cleaning my bike and I noticed that my rear triangle has severe tire rub on the chainstay yoke area. I have been using 2.35 Nevegal tires since early this year. A couple of months ago, I had a ride with the worst muck, as the rear wheel was stuck and refused to turn. I knew that the mud+grit+wide rubber would scratch my rear triangle. But I never thought it could be this severe!

    Sorry I don't have pics yet. Will take off the rear wheel and try to find a good angle for a clear shot.

    In the meantime, please tell me what you think about this issue. Thanks so much!

  2. #2
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    Hard to say without good photos.
    We'll take a look and comment if you send us some or post here.
    H

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc
    Hard to say without good photos.
    We'll take a look and comment if you send us some or post here.
    H
    Thanks for the quick reply, Hans!

    I was working on the bike last night. I figured that the lighting was poor so I didn't even try taking a couple of pics. I promise to take photos later. Then email you guys.

    Thanks again!

  4. #4
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    Hi again Hans!

    I was able to take some pics already. Emailed you six.
    Here's one of them:

  5. #5
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    Are you running the Lopes link?

  6. #6
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    Doesn't look like it impacts the carbon structure to me. Of course Hans has seen more and will know. I'd put some racers (polyurethane) tape over it for the future, then ride and get it dirty again. You could also put some clear nail polish on it to clean it up a bit.

    "I must not be crazy because I'm seriously questioning my sanity"

  7. #7
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    I was getting a little bit of tire rub also in the same spot running a 2.35 tire.
    I've switched to a 2.1 on the rear and also put some a frameskin patch all in and around that area. Problem solved

    I'm 200lbs and have lopes link. It even rubbed a bit with a 2.25 tire, All the rubbing is only on the left side, any one know why this would be??
    Last edited by GazaTron; 11-11-2009 at 03:32 PM.
    Get out and ride

  8. #8
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    I have a similar issue. I switched back to 2.1 in the rear and covered the area with the touch up paint and it of course solved the problem. However, I really like the 2.35 in the back and have just put it back on. I think this type of bike calls for 2.35.

    I have the Lopes Link. It only occurs on the left side of the bike. I thought my wheel might be flexing, but it looks like I'm not the only one with this issue. Seems like an extra 1/10th of an inch clearance is needed for 2.35 tires.


  9. #9
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    My Mojo has the same problem, both sides, left is worse than the right, Lopes Link on it from the factory when I purchased it new in March. The 2.35 appears to fit with reasonable clearance when sitting still, but then it rubs when riding. The rear end of the bike simply isn't strong enough to prevent flex. And I'm only 175 pounds. I can only imagine what a Clydesdale-class rider would experience.

    I went to a 2.1 rear tire though I was quite displeased to do so. I love technical climbing and that was part of my motivation to buy a Mojo (DW Link). I ran a 2.5 on my Yeti 575 but figured a 2.35 would work as well on the Mojo due to the improved suspension action. And now I can't run a 2.35, I've had to go all the way down to a 2.1. I really want a 2.35. Of course, destroying my rather expensive chainstay is a much worse problem than not enough traction, so I am leaving the 2.1 on there and resenting it.

  10. #10
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    In order to understand the problem better could you guys email me the size and model of tires you were using and if mud was involved or not? We haven't had much feedback on this issue before...

    hans@ibiscycles.com

    We've actually had pretty good luck with tires up to 2.4, but sticky mud requires the use of smaller tires in order to not destroy things. (2.1 or smaller)

    The original post's swing arm needs to be replaced. The other one shown with the little white area is OK, the white is the paint primer, and it has not gotten into the structural material.

    One thing that happens is the wheel gets pulled forward by the chain tension on the drive side, pulling the tire to the left in between the chain stays. If you center your wheel and tighten the QR quite tight you might gain a bit that way, as the wheel will be more likely to stay perfectly centered.

    Hans

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc
    In order to understand the problem better could you guys email me the size and model of tires you were using and if mud was involved or not? We haven't had much feedback on this issue before...

    hans@ibiscycles.com

    We've actually had pretty good luck with tires up to 2.4, but sticky mud requires the use of smaller tires in order to not destroy things. (2.1 or smaller)

    The original post's swing arm needs to be replaced. The other one shown with the little white area is OK, the white is the paint primer, and it has not gotten into the structural material.

    One thing that happens is the wheel gets pulled forward by the chain tension on the drive side, pulling the tire to the left in between the chain stays. If you center your wheel and tighten the QR quite tight you might gain a bit that way, as the wheel will be more likely to stay perfectly centered.

    Hans

    Hi Hans! I replied to your email just now.
    In response to your above post, I was using Kenda Nevegal DTC 2.35 folding bead tires since early this year. My wheelset that came with the built bike was the Mavic CrossRide Disc. Mud was definitely involved in the rubbing and scratching.

    So I need a new swing arm. Wow, that's big news! Although I am not that surprised because I examined the damage thoroughly. Perhaps I was hoping real hard that the damage was merely to the cosmetic layer of carbon weave.

    Anyway, I don't know if this is relevant, but my brake pads have uneven wear, as in they're wedged. I always do up my QR tightly, so I guess that eliminates some of the possibility that the wheel gets pulled so as to cause tire rub on the non-drive-side chainstay.

    Again, thanks so much!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc
    In order to understand the problem better could you guys email me the size and model of tires you were using and if mud was involved or not? We haven't had much feedback on this issue before...

    hans@ibiscycles.com

    We've actually had pretty good luck with tires up to 2.4, but sticky mud requires the use of smaller tires in order to not destroy things. (2.1 or smaller)

    The original post's swing arm needs to be replaced. The other one shown with the little white area is OK, the white is the paint primer, and it has not gotten into the structural material.

    One thing that happens is the wheel gets pulled forward by the chain tension on the drive side, pulling the tire to the left in between the chain stays. If you center your wheel and tighten the QR quite tight you might gain a bit that way, as the wheel will be more likely to stay perfectly centered.

    Hans
    Tyres i was using were, kenda nevegal 2.35 dtc and schwalbe racing raplh 2.25 evo's.
    I'm running a schwalbe rocket ron 2.1 on rear with rubbing issue. Not mud has being involved for my rubbing issues as it barely rains down here.
    Get out and ride

  13. #13
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    I also run the 2.35 neve's but anticipated rubbing. Just by looking at the rear, you can see that there is less clearance on the left than on the right. I don't dish my wheel which I assume most people don't so there will be a bit of offset to the left. I put some racer tape covering the entire area and the tape has some rub marks, but it seems to have helped as the tire has not eaten through it yet. If it does, then I'll just replace the tape. I've only done a few rides in mud...literally 2 and I was making sure it wasn't packing up in that area.

    If there was one thing on my Mojo wishlist, it'd be for better tire clearance...but I know it's not that simple.

    I know there will be non Ibisian's reading this and boo hooing the Mojo especially since the OP has to replace the rear due to a simple thing as rubbing. "It would never happen to an AL bike" they'll say. Uh...wrong. OT but I had a Titus (Hammerhead 100X) before the Mojo and my rear derailler cable housing ate away at the seattube as the suspension cycled back and forth. My bad for using too much housing, not protecting the area, etc, but the housing was able to dig a groove right through the AL. So this has nothing to do with carbon, it's a lesson on friction.

  14. #14
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    2.25 Rocket Rons and NO Rub
    2.25 RAcing Ralphs in the summer and no Rub too!

    Hope pro 2 hubs with 819 rims
    Santa Cruz Bronson C
    Kinesis FF29

  15. #15
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    I think this came up before on this forum...people were saying it's the dish. I run nev 2.35s, and the tire is obviously rubbing on the left side (top chainstay). yes i've tightened the spokes on the opposite side, but it's a huge difference in space between the two sides. i thought it was only me and ddraewwg, but i was thinking of getting a smaller tire in the back just to avoid it.

    PS wheels were built by universal cycles with hadley hubs, so don't how they build them up.

  16. #16
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    My Nevegal 2.35 DTC experience - no rubbing

    Hello,

    I have been running Nevegals 2.35 DTCs folding bead for three weeks as follows:

    - ZTR Arch rims / Hope Pro II hubs (built by NoTubes - great wheel build, BTW)
    - 2008 Mojo SL small without Lopes Link
    - riding through a fair amount of mud and sharp transitions
    - I'm only 135lbs - 145 with full gear
    - achieving full travel on every ride according to the rubber band on the RP23

    No issues - no rubbing and it appears there is plenty of clearance.

    Albert

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkies
    PS wheels were built by universal cycles with hadley hubs, so don't how they build them up.
    Great hubs. But better check the dish, true, and tightness. I've had Universalcycles wheels built and they were pretty sloppy, loose spokes, not very true or well dished. That was over 6 years ago, hopefully their builder has improved by now!

  18. #18
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    I've used Nevegal 2.35 and a relatively massive 2.4 Big Betty without any issues.

    We don't really have any mud here.

    I used the 3M clear bra tape on the inside of my stays. I don't have any rub, but if I did, I think it would protect the carbon.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg
    I also run the 2.35 neve's but anticipated rubbing. Just by looking at the rear, you can see that there is less clearance on the left than on the right. I don't dish my wheel which I assume most people don't so there will be a bit of offset to the left. .........
    Why would you NOT correctly dish your wheel and have the rims symmetrical between the chain stays and yoke - I don't understand this.
    Otherwise you're just setting yourself up for this type of problem and I think your assumption about 'most people' is plain wrong in my experience.

  20. #20
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    Why the angst? I asked my builder about dishing the rear and was told that the wheel would not be as strong. Sheesh. I relied on him to build my wheel "correctly". How much "dish" is correct? Besides, the amount of replies on this thread from people who have tire rub on the left CS obviously shows that it's not just me. And if you read my thread, the amount of rubbing on my mojo is not nearly as bad as some folks here....I don't see it as a problem so I don't know why that affects you. The rub marks are most likely from having some mud on the tires or some rocks/twigs getting stuck in the knobs and wacking the stay as they pass. It's not from the tire being too big and constantly rubbing the CS. I have plenty of clearance.

    Maybe I should have said most people's wheels (maybe mine as well) aren't dished enough....but what is enough? You're always going to be compromising something. This is along the same lines as asymmetrical spoke holes. Does it make for a better/stronger rear wheel? Debatable. On paper it seems to make sense but why doesn't everyone do it then?
    Last edited by ddraewwg; 11-13-2009 at 08:30 AM.

  21. #21
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    Wow this sucks. I run 2.25 tires (Maxxis Ardent or Nobby Nic) and it is very muddy around here at times (East TN). If this bike can't handle mud, then maybe I need to sell it before I build it up and just keep my Ventana. That thing could easily handle a 2.4 with tons of mud. My Mojo SL doesn't have the Lopes Link so it will likely even be worse.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    Wow this sucks. I run 2.25 tires (Maxxis Ardent or Nobby Nic) and it is very muddy around here at times (East TN). If this bike can't handle mud, then maybe I need to sell it before I build it up and just keep my Ventana. That thing could easily handle a 2.4 with tons of mud. My Mojo SL doesn't have the Lopes Link so it will likely even be worse.
    I would say, make sure your wheel is correctly dished and put the 3M protective tape in the rub area.I have 2.3 tires and have no rub and my wheel is centered in the chainstay.
    milesW

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    Wow this sucks. I run 2.25 tires (Maxxis Ardent or Nobby Nic) and it is very muddy around here at times (East TN). If this bike can't handle mud, then maybe I need to sell it before I build it up and just keep my Ventana. That thing could easily handle a 2.4 with tons of mud. My Mojo SL doesn't have the Lopes Link so it will likely even be worse.
    I'd say you are probably right. No, definitely right. I would suggest stripping down the bike, I'll send you a check to cover shipping (~$100 to 80304), and you can send your SL out to me.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradoxj13
    I'd say you are probably right. No, definitely right. I would suggest stripping down the bike, I'll send you a check to cover shipping (~$100 to 80304), and you can send your SL out to me.
    No need to strip down the bike. It hasn't been built up yet. Add $2299 to for the cost of the frame and she is yours.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    No need to strip down the bike. It hasn't been built up yet. Add $2299 to for the cost of the frame and she is yours.
    Nope, it is used, second hand, out of the lot. With an especially delicate carbon frame like this, there is almost no resale value. I'll give you $200 and an 8 year old Giant NRS1.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coloradoxj13
    Nope, it is used, second hand, out of the lot. With an especially delicate carbon frame like this, there is almost no resale value. I'll give you $200 and an 8 year old Giant NRS1.

    Maybe that is why I saw a slightly used non-SL Mojo go for $1650 on ebay recently. That is what drove me to just get a used one. I thought carbon resale value would suck.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    Maybe that is why I saw a slightly used non-SL Mojo go for $1650 on ebay recently. That is what drove me to just get a used one. I thought carbon resale value would suck.
    Relax... 3 very muddy NorCal winters of frequent rides on my Mojo, no problem here, and this is without any helicopter tape protection for tire rub. My 650b wheels (27.5 inch) with measured 2.3 wide tires have only 4mm clearance and there is light surface finish rub at the edge of the knobs from muddy rides but nothing close to the OP pictured above.

    My opinion is the OP's pictures had a sloppy hub axle problem or wheel true problem, or possibly a dropout bond defect (very unlikely). That isn't a Mojo problem.

  28. #28
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    I took my wheel off and took a closer look. The rubbing isn't as bad as I thought. It went through the clear tape that I applied to protect it which is frayed and makes it look bad, but I think it is just surface damage. I tried to take some pics but they didn't come out very well. Will try again. That was from a 2.35 Nevegal. I now have a 2.1 Nevegal on it.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Relax... 3 very muddy NorCal winters of frequent rides on my Mojo, no problem here, and this is without any helicopter tape protection for tire rub. My 650b wheels (27.5 inch) with measured 2.3 wide tires have only 4mm clearance and there is light surface finish rub at the edge of the knobs from muddy rides but nothing close to the OP pictured above.

    My opinion is the OP's pictures had a sloppy hub axle problem or wheel true problem, or possibly a dropout bond defect (very unlikely). That isn't a Mojo problem.
    It wasn't a hub issue nor a wheel dish/alignment issue. The wheel is good and the dishing is symmetrical. Something back there was flexing. I don't know which part. But next time I will be more aware of the tire/mud clearance.

    And I want to thank Ibis, the good people behind a good company for dealing with my questions and concerns. Special thanks to Hans for replying to my emails. Ibis customer service is TOPS!

  30. #30
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    Could it be wheel flex? I know a lot of riders are running light as wheels but in my experience going too light and or too narrow is trouble with 2.2 tyres and upwards.
    The worst ever experience I had with a wheel was one built up on Mavix 317 XC rims and DT revolution spokes. That wheel mad the whole back end of the bike feel like it was detached from the front (2003 Tracer-a stiff bike for the time)

    Turned out it was the spokes. Several mechanics I have spoken too won't touch then for anything but an XC race wheel for exactly the reasons posted above. Flimsy narrow wheels may well be the reason for Mojo flex comments. Everyone goes crazy trying to get their rigs as light as possible but there is always a compromise. My advice (take it or leave it) is don't use light spokes, and don't go below a Mavic 819 both in width and strength if you want to run 2.35s

    I run massively rebuilt Crossmax XLs with Maxxis tyres (always 2.35s front and back) That setup doesn't look like it has gone anywhere near the yokes.

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