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  1. #1
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    New 2010 Easton Haven wheels, pics and review, longer read

    If you're looking for a nice set of light, wide, and stiff wheels for your Mojo look no further. Just picked up a set of the 2010 Easton Haven wheels and man do they rock.



    I'm about 6'2" and weigh around 180 pounds now. I run tubeless with Stans latex at around 32 PSI on High Volume 600 gram 2.4 tires and ride: xc, aggressive trail and a little all mountain. Trails like JMP in Oakland, Annadel, Tamarancho, Santa Cruz, and Rockville all in the bay area, CA.

    I've been riding Spinergy Xyclone discs for some time now and had been looking for a set of new wheels. The Spinergys were good wheels that could be had for a bargain used. 1700 grams and pretty strong but had a very narrow rim and they were quite flexy. What made matters worse is that I was running 2.4 high volume tires on them. The Spinergy is rated at 23mm outside diameter which probably equals about a 18-19mm inner diameter and are only rated for 2.1 tires. The WTB MutanoRaptor 2.4's are only about 600 grams but are quite bulbous and didn't seem to do very good on the skinny wheel, which only added to the flexy feel I would get from these wheels. Landing drops, picking lines through rocks, cornering and being able to point the bike where I wanted it to go were all problems with the Spinergy/mutano 2.4 combo.

    Well finally I found a set of wheels that fit all my needs;

    1. Fairly light, need good acceleration and momentum out of my wheels
    2. Wide rim, I run bigger tires and need a wider rim to keep the tire from flexing on the wheel and taking on a crappy profile
    3. Stiff and stout, don't' want noodly spokes and a flexy rim, need something stiff and responsive that will last.
    4. Able to take a 15mm through axle and also a 9mm Quick release, I'm running a 9mm QR right now but as soon as funds allow I'm upgrading to a newer fork with the 15mm QR through axle.

    These wheels fit all 4 criteria;

    1. These wheels at 1650 grams are quite light for aggressive trail riding. I put them on the scale and they were exactly 1700 but thats with the valves and the 9mm adaptor which is where the extra 50 grams comes from, then again not having to use any rim tape for tubeless is nice and offsets it.
    2. 21mm Internal width, which is about a 27mm outside diameter, way wider than most rims at this weight level. My 2.4 tire feels like a total different tire now, it seems to of taken a better shape on the wider wheel giving way more feel and confidence through turns.
    3. These wheels are 24 spoke count, they use higher spoke tension on these wheels making them stiffer, as well the rim seems to be stout and the hubs as well, they feel light years more stable than the spinergys ever could of dreamed of.
    4. They were designed around the 15mm QR axle, they come with the 9mm adaptor in case you are not using a 15qr fork, which I'm not, yet.

    "Wow" so this is what a bike is supposed to feel like was all I could think lwhen I went up to Annadel park in Santa Rosa, CA for my second ride since swapping wheels. This is by far one of my favorite trails in the entire bay area. Lots of fast descents, some smooth with roots,others very rocky. They all cover a good amount of distance, did a 22 mile loop which involves a fair amount of climbing, nothing too steep but again lots of rocks.

    On the climbs the wheels felt like the spinergy's which were always nimble and accelerated quickly, the wheels never gave a soggy feel and the bike never feels like its trying to slow down on its own. I did notice however when really powering on the cranks that the rear of the bike felt less squishy and flexy. Felt like I was putting down a little bit more power to the ground due the more stiff nature of the new wheel, and tire profile. I also noticed at the same PSI the tire now feels more stiff and while it still has good cushion in the lower 30's PSI, it didn't feel wallowy or not planted.



    The 2.4 tire has such a better profile now that its mounted on a wider rim. I have much more confidence going into fast turns as the tire doesn't feel like its rolling off of the rim, as well the entire bike suddenly feels much more firm and rigid. With the stiffer wheel I can float through the chop and the bike holds its line with way more authority, picking a line is now much more confidence inspiring and I can turn much more quickly. Landing drops the bike feels so solid and planted, nothing more than some simple jumps but at one point you can launch a kicker and land sideways onto a burm built up on a wooden stick bridge. If you're going fast enough you land sidewaysz slightly into a berm hard. For the first time the Mojo just felt planted, no more oh **** moment.

    Needless to say but they are works of art, the hub is simply amazing from the outside with its champagne finish and CNC machining. Whats nice about it is that it isn't really loud, it sounds very smooth but still with retains positive "clicks". I'm not sure on how many pawls, or how fast the engagement is, it feels good but I believe they are likely average around 30-40 points of engagement if I had to guess The front Hub is seamless and spins effortlessly like butter, you don't hear or feel anything when you freely spin the front wheel. I can't wait to convert my fork over to the 15mm QR axle to take full advantage of the rigidity the front hub has to offer. As time goes on we will see how sturdy these hubs are and how easy they are to maintain, I've yet to hear any problems about Eastons hubs, hopefully that rings true for these as well.





    The rim itself seems to be nice, they are UST and you don't have to use ANY rim tape or anything tp go tubeless, mount any kind of tire you want, add a lil Stans Latex and the pump right up with compressed air and seat with a "ping". Much, much easier than using the rim tape and universal valves or the Stans rubber strap with valve trying to get non UST wheels to seat and seal.



    As well the wheels are hand built, with only 24 spokes, with a lower spoke count so Easton has to raise the tension of each spoke. They make sure all the spokes are evenly tension by hand. I can't say the wheel is absolutely %100 true but I know that all of the tensions are spot on which is what is important. I do understand that the drawback of the 24 spoke is that if you break one the rim comes much more easily out of whack since you have less spokes to hold it together. The benefits seems to be a stiff wheel with less weight. I like . Apparently Easton uses some new eyelet/rim interface which acts like a turnbuckle allowing them to make a lighter rim that is still as strong.

    I'm still not really digging the big flashy letters on the wheel, I think they are clear coated over so my idea of heating them up and peeling them off won't work, its starting to grow on me but I'm not a big fan of the advertisement.



    I'm totally stoked on these wheels, I don't have a lot of time on comparably stiff wheels, so I can'[t really say that they are much better than other comparable wheels on the market. They do run standard DT double butted spokes though and can be true'd like a normal wheel. As well for the weight, you don't find any other wheelsets out there that are as wide, yet still stiff for under 1700 grams. I really think Easton hit the nail on the head offering this package.
    Last edited by Yody; 11-16-2009 at 10:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    Nice wheels.....I just bought Eastons road wheels and like them a lot. Nice bike as well!!!
    Just ride and quit bit$hin.......Yeti SB5+..SIR9 SS...CD Synapse DA...

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    If the front hub can't take a 20mm axel then I wouldn't consider them as all mountain wheels.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by d3toid
    If the front hub can't take a 20mm axel then I wouldn't consider them as all mountain wheels.
    Thats nice, but where did I say it was an All Mountain wheel? I doubt you'll find a "real" AM wheel that weighs 1650 grams, none the less really want one unless your idea of All Mountain is really just XC

    BTW, I believe they are working on a 20mm adapter, not %100 confirmed though, but it doesn't matter to me as I'll be going with a fox QR15 fork

    If they don't release a 20mm option though, I think they'll be shooting themselves in the foot considering how popular through axle's are these days.

  5. #5
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    They lok amazing. I have the Easton XC Ones on my mojo. Too small for the typ of riding I do. This looks perfect.

    Erik

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    Nice Wheels

    You will never forget they are Easton Haven wheels, neither will the person next to you, or the person one mile away who can read the letters on the side of the rim.

    They sound nice, I think wider rims are then next big thing. Go pugsly!

  7. #7
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    yeah like I said, I'm not a big fan of the advertisement.

  8. #8
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    So I've put more than a handful of rides on these wheels and on the last really rocky ride I swore I noticed a little bit of play in the rear wheel. When I got home I put the bike upside down and grabbed the wheel. If I rocked it back and forth I could feel just a hair of movement.

    So I took the wheel off the bike and took a look at the rear hub. What I found is that these hubs have a nicely crafted bearing preload adjuster. I think when these wheels were shipped out they were just on the cusp of being loose. Just about an 1/8 of a turn took out the slack yet they still spun beautifully. Nice feature.


  9. #9
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    Wow, those hubs are beautiful.

    Why do you run 32psi? I run stans on my 2.25 Maxxis Ardent tires and run 27 on rocky trails and have no rim damage at all.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    Wow, those hubs are beautiful.

    Why do you run 32psi? I run stans on my 2.25 Maxxis Ardent tires and run 27 on rocky trails and have no rim damage at all.
    I weigh 180 pounds how much do you weigh? 27 feels a little too low for me, makes the tire feel likes its "swimming"

  11. #11
    YRTRNRSHVY
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    I am 170 without gear. I haven't noticed that feeling, but if I did, I would definitely run more pressure. I know a really fast racer that has a 29r with UST wheels and he runs 17psi. I guess UST being stiffer helps reduce that "swimming" feeling.

  12. #12
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    Nice wheels. I like the graphics. That bike is way too clean though.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemmy999
    I am 170 without gear. I haven't noticed that feeling, but if I did, I would definitely run more pressure. I know a really fast racer that has a 29r with UST wheels and he runs 17psi. I guess UST being stiffer helps reduce that "swimming" feeling.
    I might try lowering the pressure now that the tire is on the correct size wheel, but on the other hand having the high volume tire already makes it feel like its running less pressure even with 32 in it, if that makes any sense. It is something I've been thinking about

    Oh and 17psi??? lol, I bet the UST helps but still!

    On a sidenote, I've found recommendations on Internet PSI to be useless. I'd bet almost %95 of peoples flloor pump guages are completely whack. I've compared mine and a few friends pump guages against my calibrated motorcycle guage and most pumps I've seen seem to run 6psi high. But I've seen them all across the board. Really I pump mine up to 38 on my JoeBlowPro pump because I know it reads 6 psi high.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity
    Nice wheels. I like the graphics. That bike is way too clean though.



  15. #15
    KevinK
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    Beautiful wheels Yodi! Do you by chance have the individual weights for the front and back wheels? Thanks again,

    Kevin

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    No sorry I don't. I thought about that after the fact, was too excited to get them on

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    Do they use the dual-threading design that the other Easton wheels use? Oh wait, I just read it again and it says they use DT spokes, that's a good move.

    We just had a customer with 12month old XC Ones that had a busted spoke with the twin-thread desing, and was a PITA to get out, since it had broken at the hub and we had to use a heat gun on the hub flange to warm up the loctite before we even got it out, long story...

    From other threads on here about Easton MTB wheels, there doesn't seem to be a lot of love, interesting to see how much they're changing with these wheels.

    I'm not sure I completely understand your theory with using less spokes for more tension - does that mean a wheel with 20 spokes would be stiffer again?

    How much do these wheels cost and how much did you have to pay for them, if at all?

  18. #18
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    I'm not an engineer, so I won't play one but as far as I can tell they use less spokes to save weight and to make up for the lack of stifness they use higher tension which they can do because of their special turnbuckle at the npple/rim interface. As well this turnbuckle also seems to allow them to have a lighter rim that still can be stiff. That's my take on it, not guaranteed to be %100 corrext

    As far as price goes I get good deals at my LBS, not really sure what you are trying to imply? I wrote a great review because I'm thoroughly happy, trust me if they turn out to be crap down the road ill be the first to say something. I just happened to be searchig for the right type of wheel for awhile now and am stoked to have these, if u couldnlt tell already, ha!

    Loosen up a bit.
    Last edited by Yody; 11-21-2009 at 12:32 AM.

  19. #19
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    Yeah, I don't know if we should trust a review from somebody with such a clean bike.....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon
    Yeah, I don't know if we should trust a review from somebody with such a clean bike.....
    Haha, don't trust guys with the clean bikes, they don't really clean them they just get new ones for free after every ride!

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    Yeah apologies if that came across as a bit cynical, just trying to figure out how using less spokes makes a stiffer wheel - that may just be Easton's marketing on that one.

    For sure if they're using a new design process on the rim that makes it stiffer than comparable rims at the same weight, then that's cool.

    But I doubt that using fewer spokes makes the wheel any stiffer. From my experience, generally low-spoke wheels are noticeably less stiff than conventional 32 or 36 spoked wheels. Then again, I'm no engineer either!

  22. #22
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    I might of worded it incorrectly. I think that they can make up for the fact that it has less spokes by running more tension. The nipple is some sort of turnbuckle system that allowas them to achieve higher tension and also makes the rim lighter than other 24 spoke system.

  23. #23
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    Yody, curious, what is the total weight of your bike? Those hubs are addicting, so beautiful!!! Just keep looking at them!! Went to the Easton site and watched their video, pretty high quality control. Very impressive!, and their factory is really close to my house, less than five miles!!!

  24. #24
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    27.3 pounds, its an X-large. Not a light weight but then again it pedals very nicely. I could lose some more weight here and there but everything I have now works really well

    They definitely are eye candy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Willy
    We just had a customer with 12month old XC Ones that had a busted spoke with the twin-thread desing, and was a PITA to get out, since it had broken at the hub and we had to use a heat gun on the hub flange to warm up the loctite before we even got it out, long story...

    From other threads on here about Easton MTB wheels, there doesn't seem to be a lot of love, interesting to see how much they're changing with these wheels.
    i've got a basement full of easton road wheels that need to be sold. after dealing with the same broken spoke issue as willy describes, i have no interest in ever doing it again. something just so simple and functional about j bend spokes.

    hey, anyone want to buy some easton road wheels? haha.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseyscot
    i've got a basement full of easton road wheels that need to be sold. after dealing with the same broken spoke issue as willy describes, i have no interest in ever doing it again. something just so simple and functional about j bend spokes.

    hey, anyone want to buy some easton road wheels? haha.

    Now that they've gone away from the ill-advised spokes threaded at the hub, I doubt anybody will be having that sort of spoke breakage headache any more. J-Bends are great because they allow a bit of "swivel" at the head in response mainly to braking torque.... "normal" straight pull spokes do the same thing, as well as being stronger than J-Bends thanks to the elimination of the bend. I9 wheels are awfully sexy, but I have to wonder when (not if) that "spoke threads at the hub" issue is gonna come home to roost for guys who ride them hard and for a long time.
    I think Easton's taking the high road by spec'ing good ole butted stainless spokes with a hub that uses the standard straight pull variety....those Haven's look like the sh!t for guys who want a light but solid wheel with a wide footprint.... I had just about decided to pick up a deeply discounted set of Havoc's, which I might do still....but dang... the new stuff is enticing....

  27. #27
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    Says the 20mm is on the way, and explains the turnbuckle setup a lil more;

    http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/featu...,516/sspomer,2

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    Just adding my two cents but I do talk with the folks at Easton often enough and in the new year they will be releasing a set with the 20mm front hub.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Element 22
    Just adding my two cents but I do talk with the folks at Easton often enough and in the new year they will be releasing a set with the 20mm front hub.
    Hmm, in the video they mention a new adaptor, as well the hub looks big enough for a 20mm but then again I haven't looked too closely?

  30. #30
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    I can't seem to find any info on what type of axle the rear hub uses, is it a normal QR or 10mm QR?

  31. #31
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    I thought they were all 5mmQR and that you could opt do a 10mm Bolt through on some wheels.
    Last edited by Yody; 12-09-2009 at 12:33 PM.

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    That's what I had though as well, but I can't find it confirmed anywhere. I run my bike singlespeed and a normal QR just won't cut it in my horizontal dropouts. Need to be able to use a 10mm thru bolt. Here's hoping it is 10mm because these wheels are perfect in every other way haha.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucwil
    That's what I had though as well, but I can't find it confirmed anywhere. I run my bike singlespeed and a normal QR just won't cut it in my horizontal dropouts. Need to be able to use a 10mm thru bolt. Here's hoping it is 10mm because these wheels are perfect in every other way haha.
    Just give them a call, they're pretty helpful once you get patched through to the right department. I've read the Havocs can convert easily to the 10mm bolt through so I dont' see why these would be any different.

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    I called Easton yesterday, at this point the Haven rear hub is 5mm QR only, not convertable to a 10mm QR or thru bolt. Apparently they are working on a 10mm option for the hubs in the near future, but i'm not sure if that will be a kit to convert the current hubs or a new version of the hub that has a 10mm axle built in.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucwil
    I called Easton yesterday, at this point the Haven rear hub is 5mm QR only, not convertable to a 10mm QR or thru bolt. Apparently they are working on a 10mm option for the hubs in the near future, but i'm not sure if that will be a kit to convert the current hubs or a new version of the hub that has a 10mm axle built in.
    Ah, sucks to hear.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    I'm not an engineer, so I won't play one but as far as I can tell they use less spokes to save weight and to make up for the lack of stifness they use higher tension which they can do because of their special turnbuckle at the npple/rim interface. As well this turnbuckle also seems to allow them to have a lighter rim that still can be stiff. That's my take on it, not guaranteed to be %100 corrext

    As far as price goes I get good deals at my LBS, not really sure what you are trying to imply? I wrote a great review because I'm thoroughly happy, trust me if they turn out to be crap down the road ill be the first to say something. I just happened to be searchig for the right type of wheel for awhile now and am stoked to have these, if u couldnlt tell already, ha!

    Loosen up a bit.
    Higher spoke tension does not mean a stiffer wheel unless the wheels to begin with were under tensioned. On lower spoke wheels you have to use higher spoke tension because the hub is anchored by fewer points. Typically when you use less spokes you typically use a stronger/heavier rim due to the increased spoke tension. You aren't going to be any faster from less spokes but, you might be slower from a heavier rim. I've never ridden their MTB wheels but, I've ridden their road wheels and their road wheels are very soft...

  37. #37
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    I have no experience with Easton's road wheels, but I agree 100% with everything else Woogie said. My "lightest feeling" wheels are a backup set I built from parts laying around with 32 straight gauge 14ga spokes (not light at all) laced to a very lightweight older mavic rim (sub 400gm).... they've been solid as hell, and spin up very fast. I used to run something like this with 1.8/1.5 butted w/ allow nipples, but they were less stiff and required more tweaking so I just went cheap on the rebuild and they've been great..... anyway, I'm rambling, but it's a good example of how keeping the weight away from the rims makes for a quicker accelerating wheel.
    Having said all that.... those Havens still look trick! I'm like a raccoon I guess...fascinated by shiny things...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by woogie11
    Higher spoke tension does not mean a stiffer wheel unless the wheels to begin with were under tensioned. On lower spoke wheels you have to use higher spoke tension because the hub is anchored by fewer points. Typically when you use less spokes you typically use a stronger/heavier rim due to the increased spoke tension. You aren't going to be any faster from less spokes but, you might be slower from a heavier rim. I've never ridden their MTB wheels but, I've ridden their road wheels and their road wheels are very soft...
    Yes my uninformed a$$ composed my post wrong, what I think I should of said is that since they only have 24 spokes they have to increase spoke tension to create a stiff wheel. They also claim that through some kind of engineering that has to do withe the nipple turnbuckle interface that they have achieved the lightest rim on the market that is as wide. So in this case I think they found a way around the heavier rim.

    I'm no wheel expert as you can see so feel free to correct me, I'd like to know more for sure!

  39. #39
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    I think what you said made perfect sense, just got misconstrued by some folks.... lower spoke count doesn't make a stiffer wheel, but higher spoke tension does (within limits of course). Give us some long term reports later on.

  40. #40
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    I've put a couple hundred miles on these wheels now in a variety of conditions including mud and frequent bike washes, plenty of smaller drops and jumps, rocky trails etc, wheels still spin true, no problems whatsoever. Still feel great. As well I've changed tires multiple times and every set has setup within minutes on these wheels. No soap or water needed, just slap the tire on, fill it with some stans, air it up, shake a lil, done, air tight. Literally takes me just as long as changing a tube.

    Not a lot of time yet on them but so far so good.

    Here's the latest tire combo, a lil heavier but should grab even better (and yes I'm still on the noodily 9mm QR, just can't afford a 15mmTA fork yet )

    WTB Prowler MX 2.3 up front at 860 grams and a WTB Mutanoraptor 2.24 on the rear at 800 grams, suprisingly even with the added .7 of a pound, the bike still pedals very nicely




    Last edited by Yody; 01-11-2010 at 11:28 AM.

  41. #41
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    Well talked to Easton today as I wanted find out about the 20mm throughaxle adapter. Unfortunately they are only coming out with a different front wheel with a different hub with bigger bearings etc for the 20mm (like one person mentioned earlier in the thread). So it looks like I have to run the new Fox 150mm QR15 instead of a PUSH'd Revelation. Not the end of the world but I was leaning more towards the Revelation.....

    Other than that the wheels are still going strong; smooth as butter, straight as an arrow

  42. #42
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    huh... never mind. I should learn to read all the post first!
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 01-09-2010 at 07:51 PM.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Other than that the wheels are still going strong; smooth as butter, straight as an arrow
    Great follow up. I appreciate it as I've been following this thread since you first posted.

    A couple of questions. Do the wheels come with some sort of tape (such as the yellow tape from NoTubes.com), or is no tape needed? Is there or was there an instruction booklet on how to service or do maintenance on the hubs (adjustments, etc...)?

    Thanks.

    BB

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown
    Great follow up. I appreciate it as I've been following this thread since you first posted.

    A couple of questions. Do the wheels come with some sort of tape (such as the yellow tape from NoTubes.com), or is no tape needed? Is there or was there an instruction booklet on how to service or do maintenance on the hubs (adjustments, etc...)?

    Thanks.

    BB

    Funny you mention the follow up, just did a one day death ride of 40 miles in San Luis Obispo and was totally fatigued, landed a stupid jump and took a digger into the bushes. Burped a lot of air (like 10-15 PSI and now the wheel is slightly out of true, nothing major, should true back up easily, its just slightly out of round. Considering how hard I dug my front wheel into the side of the berm I'm lucky it wasn't taco'd.

    The rims are UST so there is no tape whatsoever, just slap any tire on, puts some latex in it and inflate

    Disappointed that there were no instructions, but I've found they're easy to get ahold of on the phone FWIW

  45. #45
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    Also if everything goes right I should be running them with the 15mmta like they were intended for

  46. #46
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    I just got an e-mail back from easton (just a couple hours after I sent one) that said the 20mm version of the havens will be available in February

    Yody, you've done a good job selling those wheels. You should get a comission. But now I'm worried my bike will look too much like yours, especially since I ride at Annadel all the time
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  47. #47
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    Took the Rear Hub Apart Today

    Took the rear hub apart today to sevice it since I've been riding in some mud lately and washing the bike a lot. The entire thing came apart very easily, the only problem I've been having lately is that it seems the rear hub adjuster comes loose over time and I can feel a little play in the wheel develop. There seems to be an axle cap that should torque down to hold it in place but it bottoms out before it can reach the adjuster. I'm going to call Easton and ask them about it next week.




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    cool thread...

    keep it up. let us know how the rear hub "play" turns out.

    Porch
    "If we were Vikings, Rocky Mountain aspen stands would be our Vahalla and its singletrack our bounty" - Mtn Flyer Mag #14

  49. #49
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    Looks like they still have 30 points of engagement. I thought they would of upped that compared to the XC one's and Havocs.

    Erik

  50. #50
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    Yeah probably, doesn't bother me one bit though, and I ride in plenty of technical stuff. Then again I've never had a super high engagement hub so maybe I Don;t know what I'm missing. I do know that most of the high engagement hubs that I've seen are loud as hell. That for me far outweighs any positive you could get. I hate loud hubs.

  51. #51
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    If anyone is shopping for them hit up http://spokesmanbicycles.com/index.cfm in Santa Cruz, I believe he stocks them, is a Easton dealer, and has good pricing on them. Top notch customer service and highly recommended.

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    ... and if we just ...

    I just picked up a set of Easton Havens last night . This will be my first time using a tubeless setup. With the UST tubeless setup can you pop in a tube in the field if you need to? Do you recommend Stan's, Slime or somethinging else? I appreciate your detailed and ongoing write up. It played a factor in my purchase. I hope I enjoy them as much as you have.

  53. #53
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    Oh I'm still enjoying htem, totally happy and I've been riding through the mud like every day for the past 6 weeks with no issues

    Yes you can pop in a tube no problem, you just peel back one side of the tire, take off the UST valve,and put the tube in. Just the other day I got a puncture in my rear tire and it didn't seal. I took off one side of the tire and either all my stans dried up or it leaked out so I had throw a tube in, no big deal at all.

    I recommend only using Stans Latex. Some people like this stuff called Cafe Latex but I've had nothing but bad results with it. Stans seems to be the only latex that has this "grit" in it. It helps seals punctures while the other brands might setup well but when you get a cut or pinhole in the tire the other kinds don't seal it. Stans seals punctures really really well.

    You're gonna love those wheels!

  54. #54
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    Rear hub developed a little play again, I talked to the Easton Rep and he is sending me out new preload adjusters for free which is quite courteous of him. He said that he had not heard of this issue ever with this newer design that they have been using. I think I'll put just a tiny bit of loctite on the threads to create more friction when I put the new adjusters on.

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    nice service on Easton's part....

    ....let us know if the new adjusters do the trick.

    I ran across a set of the 29er wheels today in my LBS. Super sweet wheels.

    Let's hope Easton bumps up the rear hub to feature more points to compete with other high end hubs. For that kind of money I'd like to see approx 70ish POE.

    Be good.

    - Porch -
    "If we were Vikings, Rocky Mountain aspen stands would be our Vahalla and its singletrack our bounty" - Mtn Flyer Mag #14

  56. #56
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    Personally I'm not so worried about contact points past 30-40. I just don't see what the hype is all about and I ride plenty of technical stuff. I suppose once you have em though you might not want to go backwards?

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    ..

    I was just looking for more factory info on the POE. I haven't actually found an official quote yet. Anyway, don't get me wrong I'd love to try a pair on my next dream bike. But I do like the quick hubs, on the flip-side I would like to try a quiet hub.

    Porch
    "If we were Vikings, Rocky Mountain aspen stands would be our Vahalla and its singletrack our bounty" - Mtn Flyer Mag #14

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    Had my first ride today on my new Haven's. I'm running the 15QR setup on my '09 Tracer with Mountain King 2.4 UST. First off, the conversion from 9mm to 15QR was pretty simple. The tires seated up easily with just my floor pump. Of course, I added a little Stan's just for extra insurance. I'm running both ends at about 26 psi. Also, a quck adjustment of the Elixir calipers and the thru-axle tension, and all was well on the install.

    The wheels spin very freely on the sealed bearings, though the pre-load caps are a nice touch for removing any play that may develop. On the ride, the wheels felt great! They spin up incredibly fast and just feel nice. They are stiff, yet not harsh. They felt very solid on whatever I through at them. They railed the turns, changed direction quickly with little effort, and took some nice bumps and jumps easily, including a few 3' drops to flats. Climbing was a no brainer, aside from my wimpy conditioning after a long, cold, wet winter season here in Georgia. Nothing but excellent feedback from the wheelset. I did have one tiny "ping" from a spoke settling about a quarter mile in.

    All in all, about 15 miles on them today. Even though it was just a first ride, I'm thinking these are going to be one awesome set of rims for aggressive trail and light all-mountain riding. FYI, I weigh about 175 with cold weather gear, and keep the Tracer in 6" travel mode all the time.

  59. #59
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    Tires?

    Can you run non tubelss tires with stans on these wheels? Does the tire beed hook up well. A shop guy told me the Havens would only work with a very few tubeless tires, and suggested I buy stans wheels instead. P.S. I'm looking @ the 29er wheels.

  60. #60
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    I've yet to run any real UST tires on my Havens and do not have a problem. I've found people who say you can't run non-UST tires on UST wheels ore even normal wheels at that usually don't have much experience with tubeless.

  61. #61
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    Haven't tried non-UST tires on the Havens. As easily as the UST Mountain Kings sealed up with just a floor pump, I would guess decent non-UST tires would work fine with some Stans. I have ran non-UST Kenda Nevegals (folding bead) on both Mavic Crosstrails and Shimano XT WH-M775's, both UST rims, and hand only very minor issues getting them to seal up. They held air fine after the initial seal, and I never had a burping / leaking issue. I did have to use my compressor to get enough pressure to seat the bead in both cases. I also ran some Specialized Captains 2Bliss on both sets of rims with no issues when using some Stans.

  62. #62
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    All 4 tires pictured in this thread are non-UST, just regular tires

  63. #63
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    Hey Yody...

    Have you received the new adjusters? If so did they do the trick?

    Thanks,

    Proch
    "If we were Vikings, Rocky Mountain aspen stands would be our Vahalla and its singletrack our bounty" - Mtn Flyer Mag #14

  64. #64
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    Yeah I got it, took the entire bike apart tho since it was getting so messed up from constant riding in the mud, also sent the shock back to PUSH to get it even softer than before, wont' be for a few weeks until I can get it going again.

  65. #65
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    havens on my Moots

    The Havens look nice on Ti bikes...check them out on my Moots cinco

    Haven't seen how they perform yet, I'll test them in the Marin dust soon
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New 2010 Easton Haven wheels, pics and review, longer read-dscn2138mod.jpg  

    New 2010 Easton Haven wheels, pics and review, longer read-dscn2133mod.jpg  


  66. #66
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    You ride that bike on the road a lot?

  67. #67
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    Only on the road to get to the trails

    I happened to just also convert from a set of 2002 Spinergy Xyclones, and they had a super narrow rim, so i am running fairly skinny tires

    I guess I better get some bulkier tires to make best use of the havens

  68. #68
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  69. #69
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    I ordered a set with the 20mm hub from my LBS yesterday. Their Easton rep said that they WILL NOT be coming out with a 20mm option?!? As they wanted to differentiate between the Havoc and the Haven. I was floored. I had been saving up for a set of these wheels with lots of reports on the 20mm hub only to hear this?

    Anyone else know anything different? Anyone seen or has a Haven with the 20mm hub? I know the anticipated Feb release date was not that far - it they are delayed that's one thing - if they will not be available at all that would really really suck.

  70. #70
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    Interesting, let me see what I can find out, I was hoping they would come out with a bolt thru rear hub as well, which was supposed to come out with the 20mm front, at least thats what I read on the web somewhere ?

  71. #71
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    I sent an email directly to Easton asking about a 20mm Haven, and they said March or April. Maybe they changed their minds?
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  72. #72
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    I just got a reply from Easton (super quick reply) - they are expecting June. PHEW!

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg
    I just got a reply from Easton (super quick reply) - they are expecting June. PHEW!
    Oh good! I want to get a set of these, but need to 20mm. June is farther away that I was hoping.

  74. #74
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    Yody,
    How do the spokes connect to the rim? If the rim is sealed I'd expect to see some sort of additional threaded thingy on the rim, like the Mavic 819s have. The Havens look like standard spoke nipples to me. Can you post up a close-up pic of it?

  75. #75
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    Its part of their whole hype for these wheels, they're supposed to be machined for a custom nipple that acts like a turnbuckle. The spoke threads into the niopple and the nipple threads into the wheel making a super secure connection allowing for the high tension and stiffness of the wheel. Which IMO is way better than the stans FLOW rims that you can't tension up good because of having no eyelets or whatever (weak!)
    Last edited by Yody; 04-12-2010 at 01:28 PM.

  76. #76
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    BTW added a drop of red loctite on the preload adjuster and let it dry and then assembled and it seems to hold better, of course it just dumped rain so I'll be on backup bike for a few days so we'll see. The Easton guys have been super helpful too, so no worries either way.

  77. #77
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    I second their customer service...

    I have had XC one's and Havocs and had a skewer that seemed to come loose often on the one's and during installation of the bolt on option kit for the havocs had some issues and damaged a bearing and they replaced everything very quickly and at no cost. Also, I have been riding my Havocs for a long time on rocky trails and they have held up great. No truing in 4 years! The bolt on option is pretty great too for the rear and the 28mm footprint of the havoc's has made a big difference. The Havens sound interesting. I am glad to hear their wheels are drawing some attention.

  78. #78
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    The good news, , , 20mm Havens are on the way (or maybe even here already)

    The bad news, , , your name probably needs to Rockefeller or Carnagie in order to afford a set.




    All kidding aside, I strongly suspect the configurable hub mentioned for these is gonna make its way onto the alloy set as well.
    At any rate this is an interesting story of Easton's manufacturing process :

    (holy crap that is a light wheelset !!!)

    Easton Haven Carbon all-mountain wheelset launched (link)

    . . ."The convertible cartridge bearing alloy hubs which can be configured for 9mm quick-release and 15/20mm thru-axle up front and 135mm quick-release plus 135mm or 142mm thru-axle rear standards and straight-pull Sapim stainless steel spokes (which are conveniently all the same length throughout for easier repair) are wholly lifted from the standard Haven as well.". . . .



    .

  79. #79
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    I talked with the Easton reps at Sea Otter yesterday and got to check out those carbon havens in person. I can't afford em but they sure are nice, light and stiff! They said that they are nearly bullet proof since they are made of a rare ballistic carbon that is used as blast shields. He said through impact testing they have shown to be way stronger than the aluminum and any other carbon rim on the market.

    Good news? 20MM hub is finalized and is optimized for the most stiffness

    Bad News? Not shipping until August

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    I talked with the Easton reps at Sea Otter yesterday and got to check out those carbon havens in person. I can't afford em but they sure are nice, light and stiff! They said that they are nearly bullet proof since they are made of a rare ballistic carbon that is used as blast shields. He said through impact testing they have shown to be way stronger than the aluminum and any other carbon rim on the market.

    Good news? 20MM hub is finalized and is optimized for the most stiffness

    Bad News? Not shipping until August
    Interesting news, , ,

    did you get the impression the hub is gonna be 20mm specific or if it'll be one hub capable of converting to all the different [standards]?

  81. #81
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    20mm specific

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    BTW added a drop of red loctite on the preload adjuster and let it dry and then assembled and it seems to hold better, of course it just dumped rain so I'll be on backup bike for a few days so we'll see. The Easton guys have been super helpful too, so no worries either way.
    Yody,
    How the loctite work out ? i just returned from a rough 20 mile ride, only to find the front preload adjuster had backed out, giving me almost 1mm of play ! Don't know how much of the ride it was like that, so hopefully there is no bearing issues as a result.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Yody,
    How the loctite work out ? i just returned from a rough 20 mile ride, only to find the front preload adjuster had backed out, giving me almost 1mm of play ! Don't know how much of the ride it was like that, so hopefully there is no bearing issues as a result.
    My front hub has been solid, did you convert yours to the 15mm thruaxle, I remember there was a step by step process I had to do to get it to work right.

  84. #84
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    I did convert from the 9mm to the 15QR. I followed the instructions from Easton's site, but I'll run through it again. FYI, I have about 150 miles on the wheelset, and this is the first I noticed any issue.

  85. #85
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    For those of you who live near a Mike's Bikes shop, they are selling these Easton Havens for a really good price ($499). Here is the link:

    http://mikesbikes.com/product/10-eas...et-63959-1.htm

    No, I'm not an employee of Mikes Bikes. I just heard on the radio they are having their annual mega sale so I checked their website. This price is below anything I have seen, even fleebay.

    I want to upgrade to a through-axle fork on my Mojo, but I can't decide whether to get this wheelset and pick up a Fox with 15QR, or buy a Revelation and use an existing Crossmax ST wheelset that I took off another bike (20mm front hub, of course). Thoughts?

  86. #86
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    Thats a steal of a deal at Mikes BIkes!

    Hard to say those crossmax ST's look like nice wheels, just a bit heavier. Hard call.

  87. #87
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    Damn, that is a hell of a deal. I bet they tagged the wrong product.
    I might have to buy a set just for the heck of it.

    20mm in August?! Ugh. I might have to just get another set of I9s...

  88. #88
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    Rear hub problem didn't go away, it continues to develop play which I have to compensate for by just barely cinching up the preload adjuster. Easton is taking care of me though, sending in the rear wheel today. I should be back on the trail in no time. It is annoying that I will be without a wheel now but I'm confident they'll take care of the issue quickly.
    Last edited by Yody; 04-20-2010 at 12:59 PM.

  89. #89
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    Oh and if anyone cares, the rear wheel naked is 940 grams (with valve stem)

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    Does anyone know if the hub on the Carbon Haven is the same as the alloy version?

    They appear similar and I'm curious to know if the current alloy version can be converted to a 20 TA and 12 x 135 down the road, or if the "new" version will have an updated hub to accommodate the other axle options.

  91. #91
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    20mm hub is not convertable to anything else, its a solid 20mm hollow axle, no end caps that you could interchange. They said no plans quite yet of anything other than a standard rear qr which kinda sucks.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Rear hub problem didn't go away,
    That sucks - I've read similar experiences from other reviews. Keep us up-to-date though if they indicate what the problem is.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg
    That sucks - I've read similar experiences from other reviews. Keep us up-to-date though if they indicate what the problem is.
    On these wheels? Or just other Easton wheels? Ive heard of some issues wiht the road bike wheels that have been resolved. The thing about mine is that they started doing it right off the bat after the first few rides, ever since I"ve had to occasionaly cinch up the preload adjuster. The last time I had to adjust them I noticed the loctite didn't seem to be doing its job very well anymore, I'm wondering if I redid the loctite if it would hold, but honestly I'm not messing with it anymore, I'll let Easton take care of it. They seem interested to get to the bottom fo the issue and make sure I'm back on the road.....errrr "trail"

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    That's too bad. I just read the Carbons will have the new 142 standard and 135 x 12 through conversions as well. I had hoped the hubs were the same so the kits would work to convert both wheels.

  95. #95
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    Well maybe they will, nothing that I saw tho?

  96. #96
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    Hey I think I found a Easton Haven Wheelset for $399.00 if this is a legitimate on line retailer? Here

    o2GearShop.com
    200 N. Mall Drive
    Appleton Wi 54913
    phone: 1.877.504.GEAR


    Why are the prices going lower? I really would like to run 2.4 ust tires on ust rims.

    sent from my rotary phone

  97. #97
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    The price is for front wheel only +400$ for complete wheelset
    Tal

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesinoc
    Hey I think I found a Easton Haven Wheelset for $399.00 if this is a legitimate on line retailer? Here

    o2GearShop.com
    200 N. Mall Drive
    Appleton Wi 54913
    phone: 1.877.504.GEAR


    Why are the prices going lower? I really would like to run 2.4 ust tires on ust rims.
    Read the fine print. If you click on the options, the "Wheelset" is +$400, bringing the total to $799.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    On these wheels?

    Yup - particularly the rear hub.

  100. #100
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    [QUOTE=Neldar]For those of you who live near a Mike's Bikes shop, they are selling these Easton Havens for a really good price ($499). Here is the link:

    http://mikesbikes.com/product/10-eas...et-63959-1.htm
    QUOTE]

    Neldar,

    I ordered up a pair of these yesterday from Mike's for my soon to be new Spitfire. Never heard of them before. Couldn't get them to answer the phone, so I placed an order via their website and received a call later in the day confirming the order and that they were shipping out. Later received an email tracking number.
    That was pretty cool of them to actually call and confirm the order being a new customer and all. They'll be hearing from me again in the future.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg
    Yup - particularly the rear hub.
    Can you tell us more??

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    From pinkbike regarding the hub compatibility on the carbon. Hopefully the carbons end up using the same hub as the alloys.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/haven-c...tter-2010.html


    Versatility was paramount when designing the new carbon rimmed haven's. The front wheel is compatible with all three common axles sizes: 9 mm QR, 15 mm thru-axles, as well as 20 mm thru-axle systems. The rear hub can be convertible to fit standard 135 mm QR, as well as 135 mm and 142 mm thru-axles. You should have no worries when upgrading your frame or fork down the road, the carbon Havens should bolt right up. The rear hub uses a 7075 aluminum freehub body that has a 36 point gear ring for 12 degrees on engagement. Deeper inside you'll find oversized aluminum axles and preload adjustable sealed bearings to get them spinning just right.

  103. #103
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    Maybe thats true, but one of the guys from Easton at sea otter was holding a 20mm Carbon Haven and told me it was not convertible and that they (ghey) are not planning on a bolt thru rear hub since most people don't want that.

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    They should call Hope and ask why the pro2 is so popular then. I'm sure there are enough potential customers out there that would appreciate the flexibility of moving wheels between bikes. Seems stupid to limit your potential market by not making a $30 adapter.

  105. #105
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    Its the hub/axle, the axle tapers and gets too small, a 10mm rod would be too big. They would have to redesign the hub I believe. I'm guessing that it possibly has to do with the weight as well. Trying to get a set of good wheels at 1650 grams probably isn't easy. I'm with you though I wish they wer bolt thru compatible.

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    Oh, and after 5 minutes on hold with Easton (number posted on the Easton site under the Havoc wheels to purchase adapters) I was told that they make a 20mm adapter for the Haven but that I would need to call my local bike shop to buy it. She could not provide a part number.

    http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/W...voc_%2709.html

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbpoint
    Oh, and after 5 minutes on hold with Easton (number posted on the Easton site under the Havoc wheels to purchase adapters) I was told that they make a 20mm adapter for the Haven but that I would need to call my local bike shop to buy it. She could not provide a part number.

    http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/W...voc_%2709.html
    How much you wanna bet she thought you were talking about the "Havoc" and not the "Haven"

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    How much you wanna bet she thought you were talking about the "Havoc" and not the "Haven"
    Ditto.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Can you tell us more??

    I forget the review sources - try a google search and there should be a couple out there that have had similar experiences. The latest edition of MoutainBikeAction has a write up in their gear section that mentions some play in the rear hub.

  110. #110
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    So it is confirmed

    All Haven (not havoc) wheels are going to use the same hub configurations, whether carbon or aluminum. The rear hub will stay the same using a standard quick release. The front hub will either be 15mm TA/9mmQR or a non convertable 20mm TA.

    On another note, Easton has my wheel now, so I should be hearing something back soon.

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    So to be clear, you'll need to purchase a 20mm specific front wheel that cannot be converted to any other configurations. The hub itself is different or the bearings in the hub are must be different.

    If so, that's too bad. Take these wheels off my short list.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Took the rear hub apart today to sevice it since I've been riding in some mud lately and washing the bike a lot. The entire thing came apart very easily, the only problem I've been having lately is that it seems the rear hub adjuster comes loose over time and I can feel a little play in the wheel develop. There seems to be an axle cap that should torque down to hold it in place but it bottoms out before it can reach the adjuster. I'm going to call Easton and ask them about it next week.



    Yody,

    Can you give a quick step by step on the rear hub disassembly? I'd like to check mine out. Looks like you removed the non-DS cap and pre-oad adjuster to remove the axle and freehub.

    Thanks.

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    take off end cap off of right side, underneath that you should see the end of the blue axle with an allen socket fitting in the end of it. Use an allen key inserted in the end of that axle to hold it while you pop the left side end cap off. Then hold the axle again and undo the preload adjuster and the hub should pop out.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg
    I forget the review sources - try a google search and there should be a couple out there that have had similar experiences. The latest edition of MoutainBikeAction has a write up in their gear section that mentions some play in the rear hub.
    Well, MBA also mentions that tubeless tires went on in a snap. Perhaps it was the tire, but trying to get a new Maxxis 2.2 UST Crossmark on the rear was impossible without the use of metal DH tire levers.
    A non-UST Intense 2.35 went on the front without any questions, but the UST rear put the nail in the coffin of a pair of plastic Pedros tire levers-and they're not very dainty when it comes to plastic levers.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    Well, MBA also mentions that tubeless tires went on in a snap. Perhaps it was the tire, but trying to get a new Maxxis 2.2 UST Crossmark on the rear was impossible without the use of metal DH tire levers.
    A non-UST Intense 2.35 went on the front without any questions, but the UST rear put the nail in the coffin of a pair of plastic Pedros tire levers-and they're not very dainty when it comes to plastic levers.
    IF Easton has a relief like most Mavics do you can squeeze the bead into the center all the way around.
    That makes mounting or dismounting the tire a whole lot easier, , , sometimes without even using levers.


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    Thanks, Yody. FYI, when I removed the drive side end cap, I was able to remove the freehub without undoing the non-DS side. Didn't do this intentially, it pulled off easily. Of course, when reinstalling after cleaning, I tightened up the the end cap then checked the preload for proper tension. All is good, and hte maintenance was quite simple.

    On another note, I did a ride Sunday that involved a fast, rocky 6 mile descent. When I got done, I noticed a bit of play in the rear hub. I had to tighten up the preload adjuster about 1/4 turn. This was the first time I encuontered this, and it was the first really rough trail I've had the Haven's on since new. Hopefully this is an isolated incident, and not the precursor to events similar to your rear hub experiences.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Thanks, Yody. FYI, when I removed the drive side end cap, I was able to remove the freehub without undoing the non-DS side. Didn't do this intentially, it pulled off easily. Of course, when reinstalling after cleaning, I tightened up the the end cap then checked the preload for proper tension. All is good, and hte maintenance was quite simple.

    On another note, I did a ride Sunday that involved a fast, rocky 6 mile descent. When I got done, I noticed a bit of play in the rear hub. I had to tighten up the preload adjuster about 1/4 turn. This was the first time I encuontered this, and it was the first really rough trail I've had the Haven's on since new. Hopefully this is an isolated incident, and not the precursor to events similar to your rear hub experiences.
    Hmm, mine started doing it from day 1, just didn't start worrying about it until it had been doing it for awhile. I ride a lot of rocky stuff fast, and if its not rocky its even faster so I definitely put the wheels through a lot of vibrations and hits. I wondered if my riding was causing the preload adjuster to come loose, but these wheels should be able to take it, my Laserdiscs with cheapie DTswiss370's do not come loose.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Music
    IF Easton has a relief like most Mavics do you can squeeze the bead into the center all the way around.
    That makes mounting or dismounting the tire a whole lot easier, , , sometimes without even using levers.
    Yeah, there's no easy breezy squeezing going on. In the past I've run Crossmax wheelsets and what you're saying is correct with most UST tires on that rim. Not the case with the Havens vs. 2.2 UST Crossmark. Perhaps it was just a funky tire, but it literally needed to be manhandled with a pair of metal levers to get on. Think in terms of a difficult 2-ply DH tire going on a XC rim.

    But that's not saying other UST tires will prove to be as difficult. Like I mentioned, the front non-UST tire went on with minimal help from levers.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    Yeah, there's no easy breezy squeezing going on. In the past I've run Crossmax wheelsets and what you're saying is correct with most UST tires on that rim. Not the case with the Havens vs. 2.2 UST Crossmark. Perhaps it was just a funky tire, but it literally needed to be manhandled with a pair of metal levers to get on. Think in terms of a difficult 2-ply DH tire going on a XC rim.

    But that's not saying other UST tires will prove to be as difficult. Like I mentioned, the front non-UST tire went on with minimal help from levers.
    I know what you're sayin, , , I thrashed a NanoRaptor bead trying to get it off a 517 a number of years ago. Centering the bead would've helped in that case, but the tire was, without a doubt out of spec. Right now I'm running Crossmaxes and two different Specialized USB tire sets with no problems.

    I couldn't find a profile of the alloy Haven rim, , , do they have any kind of center relief like Mavic???

  120. #120
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    rim profile


  121. #121
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    Muchos gracious amigo


  122. #122
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    It's been a week since i sent in my rear wheel for inspection. I hate to say it but I'm starting to lose confidence in Easton's Service department. I have called and emailed multiple times and nobody there seems to be able to tell me anything about my wheel. It's totally frustrating.

  123. #123
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    My rear hub on XC ones starting going again. I will never buy a Easton wheelset again.

    Yody,

    I agree it sucks that you are going through this on a brand new wheelset. A $900.00 wheelset.

    Erik

  124. #124
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    I'm not gonna jump on that bandwagon quite yet. It's only been a week.

  125. #125
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    Great news! Easton box was sitting on my porch when I got home today. Looks like they took care of me! Wheel looks to have a new freehub body and bearings and spin really smooth compared to how they were when I sent them in, I'm almost wondering if I was having a bearing issue. I'll take them out asap on a few rides and see how they do. I'm feeling pretty good about it this time around

    On a side note I got another buddy on a set for his Turner and we went out to Annadel for his his first ride on them. He seemed to be pretty impressed so far. I think he got em for $500 from mikes bikes sale. What a deal!

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    Let us know how they work out. My rear hub appears to be developing a similar problem. Loosening up almost every ride now. I took it appart today, cleaned it up, and will test it out this week. My preload adjuster appears to just about bottom out to get the correct tension. Do you have the Easton phone number handy?

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Let us know how they work out.

    Yes - PLEASE keep us posted. If its an upgraded part I want to make sure the set that I order has been 'updated'.

    Good job on keeping us in the loop so far Yody!

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Let us know how they work out. My rear hub appears to be developing a similar problem. Loosening up almost every ride now. I took it appart today, cleaned it up, and will test it out this week. My preload adjuster appears to just about bottom out to get the correct tension. Do you have the Easton phone number handy?
    Sounds like the end cap is bottoming out, thats supposed to do that. The preload adjuster is a seperate piece and its not feasible that it is bottoming out.

    I don't think I have anything different in terms of updated parts. I know there are new bearings in there and that the part the cassette slides over is new, none of the gouge marks from the cassette in the anodizing. My wheels had been loosening up from day one. My buddy just got a pair and did a pretty rocky ride with me and his felt solid after

  129. #129
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    Took my bike for its first ride since receiving the rear wheel back from Easton.

    Went to Tamarancho and then over to Solstice. Its about a 15 mile techy xc type loop, with some rocky sections. Its not really that extreme but its where I ended up.

    By the end of the ride it feels like the hub has once again loosened up, however only very slightly. Easton says to set the bearing preload by rocking the axle back and forth in the wheel, holding the spokes with some of your fingers and your thumb on the end of the axle with one hand on each side. You push it back and forth feeling for play and tighten the preload adjuster until there is no more play.

    That's all fine and dandy but when you do that and then mount the wheel, if you grab the outer rim with one hand, support yourself, and grab the chain stay/frame with the other hand and rock the rim back and forth rotating the wheel around looking for loose spots, I can feel a notchiness/play. I have to tighten up the preload adjuster about a 1/8 -1/4 past that to get rid of the play. This is the same play that keeps getting looser and looser as its ridden. Granted it was only one ride, but the very first ride on these wheels brand new, it did the same.

    So I took the hub back apart to see what they did, a few things I noticed;
    New bearings, new freehub assembly, but this time it pulled off of the axle very easily, on the old one it had a slight press fit? Everything was greased nicely too.

    I believe I have a solution to solve this problem but first I am going to try loctite one more time to see if it helps. I prepped everything better and think it "might" work this time around. If it doesn't I have a different plan;

    The axle/preload system looks like this;





    So basically the bearing preload is set with a nut type device, the more you screw it down on the axle the more it pulls the bearings tight. Then on top of that you screw in the axle end cap. Easton did not design the axle end cap to tighten against the preload adjuster to lock the preload adjuster down, like a double-nut system. They don't do this because they say that it changes the final width of the hub depending on where its adjusted and that if its short your rear triangle will be stressed when clamped down. So instead they use a rubber oring that is set in the preload adjuster that creates friction when its screwed on the axle. Friction that is supposed to keep it in place and from moving.



    So I either have a faulty hub with something wrong that Easton did not detect when sent in, or this system does not work very well on rough terrain.

    If you look at this picture you can see the small gap between the axle end cap and the preload adjuster nut. If it weren't for this gap I would be able to screw the axle end cap farther down the axle and lock it against the preload adjuster to double-nut it in place. As it is the axle end cap bottoms out on the axle before it meets the adjuster. So basically it appears that if I machine off (or cut) a few mm off the end of the axle the axle nut will be able to go further down and lock into the preload adjuster. yes the width will be a hair shorter but so what, its a carbon frame I'm sure it can flex an extra 1 or 2mm, so what.



    If the red loctite does not work I'm going to try this, should only take a few minutes, just deciding if I want to have it machined off perfectly in a lather or if I should just hack it off. I should know by the end of the week, I'd like to get a few more rides in to see how it is.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    just deciding if I want to have it machined off perfectly in a lather or if I should just hack it off.
    Either does not sound very promising. For their price ghetto mods, no offence, should not be the solution.

  131. #131
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    If I recall correctly, someone just did a review of these wheels. Mountain Bike maybe? They complained about the hub loosening up as well
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  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody

    If the red loctite does not work I'm going to try this, should only take a few minutes, just deciding if I want to have it machined off perfectly in a lather or if I should just hack it off. I should know by the end of the week, I'd like to get a few more rides in to see how it is.
    What about a large washer, or custom machined spacer, with the inside diameter a hair larger than the outside diameter of the portion where the gap is? Hopefully, the when you tighten down on the QR, it will put pressure on all 3 pieces and prevent loosening.

    -D

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel~
    What about a large washer, or custom machined spacer, with the inside diameter a hair larger than the outside diameter of the portion where the gap is? Hopefully, the when you tighten down on the QR, it will put pressure on all 3 pieces and prevent loosening.

    -D
    Hmmm, a washer might not be a bad idea

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg
    Either does not sound very promising. For their price ghetto mods, no offence, should not be the solution.
    I totally agree. They're still awesome wheels, just gotta get this taken care of. When I'm riding they rock, its just when I get home an inspect I'm annoyed. I'd like to not have to adjust my rear wheel every 3 rides.

  135. #135
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    I agree that machining or cutting off a little bit of the axle is not the solution. For that price, you should not have to to remachine them to make them work. And I'm assuming that cutting down the axle would probably void the warranty. This is really disappointing for me, I'm in the market for a new wheelset and was pretty excited about these till this.

    Hope you find an easy fix
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  136. #136
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    Yody,
    Try putting it back together as normal before making any changes, and put a small scratch with a razor across all the pieces. After a ride if there is play, see if those scratches still line up. You'll at least be able to tell which part is moving and how much. That might lead to a better solution than grinding off a mm or 2. The grinding may just void warranty, and then you'll be kicking yourself.

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    Yody, , , first off thanks for keeping this thread open and all of us updated about what you've got going on here.

    If this last fix from Easton doesn't turn out positively I think the idea of locking down the adjuster is good one. Otoh I'd avoid using either one the solutions you're considering in your post above (especially milling down the axle). Here's what I'd propose instead (using the ~2mm number you mentioned as a basis) :
    • go to your LBS, recycled LBS, or even hardware store and find enough 9mm steel washers that will stack to just less than ~2mm
    • find a hardware store or industrial supply that sells .005" or .010" brass shim stock
    • make your own 9mm/.005" brass washers and install them on the axle between the steel washers
    • use those to fine tune the exact place you want the adjuster to lock down

    You'll be able to make any future corrections to the adjustment easily by adding or removing brass washers.

    One other thought that might be interesting as a test if you have another bike available. Put that wheel on another bike (preferably a hardtail) and ride it like a rented mule then see if the thing loosens up. The reason I suggest that is a guy I know had what turned out to be a crack around one of the bushings on a Turner and it created all sorts of oddball symptoms ONLY when riding. . . Good luck

  138. #138
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    Is the problem the preload adjuster? What if a non preload adjustment axle is used?

  139. #139
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    All great thoughts, I never thought about the warranty deal. If the loctite doesn't hold I'll definitely try and find some washers instead of lopping the axle, I'll also go scribe a line across the preload adjuster and the end cap to see if it is truly backing off, or if the hub is devloping play internally.

    Not sure If I'll be able to find washers with the correct OD and ID so they will fit though, Ill start looking now

    Oh and BTW I know it's not the bike or anything related, because while the wheel was being warrantied, I put my WTB Laserdisc wheel with a cheapie DTSwiss 370 hub on there and had absolutely no issues

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    All great thoughts, I never thought about the warranty deal. If the loctite doesn't hold I'll definitely try and find some washers instead of lopping the axle, I'll also go scribe a line across the preload adjuster and the end cap to see if it is truly backing off, or if the hub is devloping play internally.

    Not sure If I'll be able to find washers with the correct OD and ID so they will fit though, Ill start looking now

    Oh and BTW I know it's not the bike or anything related, because while the wheel was being warrantied, I put my WTB Laserdisc wheel with a cheapie DTSwiss 370 hub on there and had absolutely no issues
    As far as the .005" brass shimstock goes, a drill motor, 9mm drill, and pair of scissors is all that is needed. Fold the brass over several times and clamp it between two pieces of wood then drill to make several shims.

    Putting a witness mark down is good, , , a marker pen will do fine.

    There are a couple problems with using Locktite. If you don't get it just right at first or you have to disassemble for some other reason, you'll have to deal with breaking it loose and a redo. If you use too strong of a grade of Locktite, heat is what's typically used to break its bond. Heating up any area on a bike with a heat gun, especially that area, wouldn't be a great idea.

  141. #141
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    If you find washers with the correct OD you can just drill them out to fit the inside diameter. right?

    I just ordered these wheels last week from MikesBikes with that sweet sale, I just mounted up my discs and switched the front to the 15qr, I'll be mounting my tires after work.

    Hopefully I don't have these same problems....They are sweet looking wheels, but if needed, we have some pretty good local hardware stores around here that I'll be looking into that washer fix.

    Keep us posted!!!

  142. #142
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    I loctited it previously and was able to break it loose without too much of an issue.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutup75
    If you find washers with the correct OD you can just drill them out to fit the inside diameter. right?
    Good point, , , you could even get stainless.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutup75
    I just ordered these wheels last week from MikesBikes with that sweet sale, I just mounted up my discs and switched the front to the 15qr, I'll be mounting my tires after work.

    Hopefully I don't have these same problems....They are sweet looking wheels, but if needed, we have some pretty good local hardware stores around here that I'll be looking into that washer fix.
    Good goin on the new wheel set.

    I'm having to hold out for a set of 20mm/700c. This loosening phenomenon, while not great, seems like it can be dealt with one way or another if it comes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutup75
    Keep us posted!!!
    You do too, , , what kind of rig are you putting them on???

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    I loctited it previously and was able to break it loose without too much of an issue.
    Did the adjustment hold on that occasion?

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Music
    Did the adjustment hold on that occasion?
    I broke it loose and readjusted it before riding it. After breaking the first bond the loctite didn't seem to do much. This time I loctited and adjusted it perfectly. Not going to touch it

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    Hi yodi, i was looking into buying some of these wheels myself and was gutted when i came across your thread, just a thought, you said the pre load nut is supposed to be held in place buy an o-ring, have you tried a thicker one, they do hundreds of sizes and you could have them made to your own spec for a few quid.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    I broke it loose and readjusted it before riding it. After breaking the first bond the loctite didn't seem to do much. This time I loctited and adjusted it perfectly. Not going to touch it
    I hope it goes well this time around, , , [/ fingers crossed]

  148. #148
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    Yodi, i have a better resolution than putting a metal washer inbetween those two pieces. use an O-RING.

    you can easily find an o-ring of the right diameter... preferebly something in the 70 durometer range. The o-ring will get squeezed between the two pieces and will thereby prevent loosening of the adjuster. more importantly, the o-ring will allow the remaining axle/hub to work as designed without transfering unneccesary loads into the adjuster & subsequently the bearings (which is what would happen if you use a metal washer)

    i have the same wheels and havent had an issue with the adjuster coming loose yet... but if it does, im confident a small o-ring will solve the problem and wont have any adverse effects.
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  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk1er18
    Yodi, i have a better resolution than putting a metal washer inbetween those two pieces. use an O-RING.

    you can easily find an o-ring of the right diameter... preferebly something in the 70 durometer range. The o-ring will get squeezed between the two pieces and will thereby prevent loosening of the adjuster. more importantly, the o-ring will allow the remaining axle/hub to work as designed without transfering unneccesary loads into the adjuster & subsequently the bearings (which is what would happen if you use a metal washer)

    i have the same wheels and havent had an issue with the adjuster coming loose yet... but if it does, im confident a small o-ring will solve the problem and wont have any adverse effects.
    Another good idea! Although I'm questioning how well a squishy rubber oring will lock down, seems like a metal washer would be more secure?

  150. #150
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    So I scribed a witness mark today, I'm heading over to Rockville which is a pretty rocky area, hence the name. There are a few rock gardens I can float over multiple times. I'll see if I get any movement after today's ride with the loctite;


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Music
    You do too, , , what kind of rig are you putting them on???
    I'm riding a Giant Trance X2 2009, all XT. I've only changed the seat and the bars, I have about 500 miles on it. Fruita, Moab, GJ and around Edwards/Vail/Eagle.
    The Haven wheels were a great deal, couldn't pass them up. I'm not too worried about the issue, washer/o-ring it'll work out. I just got them mounted up on my lunch break with Kenda Neve's we have the 18hrs of Fruita this weekend, gonna get a good amount of riding in on them for a break in ride.

    Sorry for the hijack, I'll post up in the wheels section or the Giant section with pics soon.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Another good idea! Although I'm questioning how well a squishy rubber oring will lock down, seems like a metal washer would be more secure?
    The key is to have the o-ring somewhat compressed. For the adjuster to back off, it would have to compress the o-ring further which is extremely unlikely since it would also have to overcome the "grip" that the o-ring has on it.

    It's not that the o-ring has to "lock" down the adjuster; it only needs to prevent it from spinning. A compressed o-ring is amazing at resisting rotational force due to vibration, and especially when the rotation would result in even more force on the o-ring

    Given your troubles thus far... i'll probably be tossing an o-ring on there after i service my hub for the first time just to be safe.
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  153. #153
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    Big news: It's no the preload adjuster.

    Rode as many rocks today as possible as fast as I could, definitely gave the rear hub a good workout. By the end of the ride the rear wheel started developing a small but noticable amount of play....again...but check it out; the witness mark had not moved.

    So basically I can't see how its the preload adjuster. Upon further inspection tonight I have narrowed it down to 1 thing

    The Bearings

    There is lateral play in the bearings. I'm not sure if its supposed to be there, but my guess is that the bearings need to be cinched down to get rid fof this lateral play. I believe the bearings somehow keep developing more play and you keep having to tighten them up to get rid of the play.

    In this pic you can see how much I had to tighten the preload adj to get rid of the play that just newly developed
    Theres the old solid line to the left and the new line in the middle



    When I sent my rear wheel in just previously, the bearings were toast. What was that, November? So about 5 months of riding 3 times a week. And now with brand new bearings it's starting all over again.

    I don't think its an axle to bearing clearance because the axle is pretty tight when you pop it in, feels like a tight tolerance, so I concluded it must be something in the bearing. A

    So I am going to try and get ahold of Easton tomorrow and see what they say. Any thoughts?

  154. #154
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    I think this is why Shimano uses angular contact bearings. I don't think cartridge bearings are designed for side loads. Maybe too much preload? Just an idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles wadsworth
    I think this is why Shimano uses angular contact bearings. I don't think cartridge bearings are designed for side loads. Maybe too much preload? Just an idea.
    I'm only preloading it enough to get rid of any lateral play, no more than needed. Having loose wheels is not acceptable to me.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    I'm only preloading it enough to get rid of any lateral play, no more than needed. Having loose wheels is not acceptable to me.
    My I9s have a preload, and I tighten them down just barely. I also tighten the preload AFTER I have tightened the skewer. Which can be a PITA, but that's their recommendation for the hub I have. Too much and the bearings will wear out fast. I never had that with my Hope Pro2 hubs though, and they are cartridge bearings.

    Another thought is maybe it has nothing to do with the bearings as much as the cassette carrier. I've seen the carriers get a little loose and develop play which makes it feel like the hub is loose.

    Regardless, keep in touch with Easton. These are new wheels and hubs, and new things always have kinks to be worked out. It might be as simple as a tolerance issue with an internal spacer between bearings. In the end, the rest of us will benefit from your pain and suffering. So, thanks for that

  157. #157
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    Do those only have 2 bearings in the rear hub? That's about half as many as it should have. No wonder they are so light and wore out after 5 months. My I9s have 4-5 bearings that I just swapped last weekend and they were still in great shape after 15 months.

  158. #158
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    There are a few types of sealed bearings... i would hope that Easton used a sealed bearing that has angled races so that a small amount of preload could be applied to them to prevent lateral play...

    If they're not angled races... then
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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Do those only have 2 bearings in the rear hub? That's about half as many as it should have. No wonder they are so light and wore out after 5 months. My I9s have 4-5 bearings that I just swapped last weekend and they were still in great shape after 15 months.
    There are 2 bearings in the freebody as well, so 4 total I believe

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk1er18
    There are a few types of sealed bearings... i would hope that Easton used a sealed bearing that has angled races so that a small amount of preload could be applied to them to prevent lateral play...

    If they're not angled races... then
    Talked to Easton, they said they are not angle races.

    The guy I talked to really didn't have much input. He said the bearings will usually loosen up a little after the first few rides as everything sets in, which you should then adjust the preloader to take that play out. Honestly I think they think I'm a little crazy lol, with all my complaints of wheel play. I gotta be honest, I really hate dealing with Easton, either its leaving voicemails and never getting called back, or pulling teeth and getting ahold of somebody who doesn't sound like they really wanna talk to you. Pretty crappy experience all the way around.

    I don't know what to do right now, might have to cut my losses and get rid of these things if they don't pan out.

    I guess the next step is to ride them a bit more and see if they continually loosen up, like they did the first time around or if they just needed one ride to seat the bearings and maybe they'll stop loosening. Or possibly go with a different set of bearings? I guess as a last resort I could pick up some Enduro Bearings or something and see if I get better results with those? I'm riding in Santa Cruz hopefully friday morning and some more riding on the weekend, so we'll see how it goes then.
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    Last edited by Yody; 05-07-2010 at 04:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles wadsworth
    I think this is why Shimano uses angular contact bearings. I don't think cartridge bearings are designed for side loads. Maybe too much preload? Just an idea.
    Yep, and angular contact bearings like shimano uses transfer loads farther outboard on the axles, which helps with stiffness, wear, and reduces the chance of broken axles because the loads are closer to the ends where the axle is supported in the dropouts.

    Just had my bearings loosen up on a cheap set of wheels with M525 hubs that I put a lot of commute miles on... there's certainly more involved in adjusting the bearings and locking everything down tight than there is in some newer designs....but once adjusted they're smooth & extremely reliable. The concept has stood the test of the last 100+ years for good reason.

    Yody, sorry to hear about the headaches you're having. You've been a very visible proponent of those wheels, and if I worked at Easton I'd be doing WHATEVER was required to get you dialed. Good luck.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Talked to Easton, they said they are not angle races.

    The guy I talked to really didn't have much input. He said the bearings will usually loosen up a little after the first few rides as everything sets in, which you should then adjust the preloader to take that play out. Honestly I think they think I'm a little crazy lol, with all my complaints of wheel play. I gotta be honest, I really hate dealing with Easton, either its leaving voicemails and never getting called back, or pulling teeth and getting ahold of somebody who doesn't sound like they really wanna talk to you. Pretty crappy experience all the way around.

    I don't know what to do right now, might have to cut my losses and get rid of these things if they don't pan out.

    I guess the next step is to ride them a bit more and see if they continually loosen up, like they did the first time around or if they just needed one ride to seat the bearings and maybe they'll stop loosening. Or possibly go with a different set of bearings? I guess as a last resort I could pick up some Enduro Bearings or something and see if I get better results with those? I'm riding in Santa Cruz hopefully friday morning and some more riding on the weekend, so we'll see how it goes then.

    One thing is for sure, having lateral play in my rear wheel is not acceptable.
    Damn, amazing how this thread has taken a 180 on Easton. Starts off with love and "you gotta get a set", to hate and cutting losses. That's too bad, they really look like awesome wheels.

  163. #163
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    I found this after a quick seach:
    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...hp?f=5&t=60953
    where they recommend an o-ring but then no further updates.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Damn, amazing how this thread has taken a 180 on Easton. Starts off with love and "you gotta get a set", to hate and cutting losses. That's too bad, they really look like awesome wheels.
    No kidding - a month ago I aked my LBS to place a 'pre-order' for the 20mm versions. I emailed them yesterday and asked what some other options are for a new wheelset. Has anyone emailed Easton this thread? They may be more inclined to deal with the issue when they read all of this - it's akin to getting a bad review in an article.

  165. #165
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    I still think they're awesome wheels IF I can get them to stop developing this play. I don't know know of any wheels that come close to matching these for the intended use.

    The last thing I want to do steer people away from these wheels. I really like the way they perform and think they are great wheels, but this persisting problem needs to be fixed. I'm convinced it could be something simple (like maybe just some different bearings)

    If I can't fix this issue I will be getting rid of them, but I definitely have not given up yet.
    Last edited by Yody; 05-05-2010 at 10:10 PM.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    My I9s have a preload, and I tighten them down just barely. I also tighten the preload AFTER I have tightened the skewer. Which can be a PITA, but that's their recommendation for the hub I have. Too much and the bearings will wear out fast. I never had that with my Hope Pro2 hubs though, and they are cartridge bearings.

    Another thought is maybe it has nothing to do with the bearings as much as the cassette carrier. I've seen the carriers get a little loose and develop play which makes it feel like the hub is loose.

    Regardless, keep in touch with Easton. These are new wheels and hubs, and new things always have kinks to be worked out. It might be as simple as a tolerance issue with an internal spacer between bearings. In the end, the rest of us will benefit from your pain and suffering. So, thanks for that
    I mounted the wheel with just the axle, preload adjuster and end caps in the wheel, no freehub body, no cassette, no brakes. Specifically to isolate the issue. I still got the play and could see the inner race on the bearing moving a little. It seems like I have to use too much preload to get rid of this play. And the play just comes right back anyway.

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    Well, I got my first ride in on these wheels today. They are such an improvement from my stock wheels. I scratched a line in mine before I rode to see if anything moved. I only rode about 20 miles half climbing half decending. There is NO play at all. I checked everything out for about half hr after the ride. No issues to report, they are super responsive, they definately make different noises than the stock wheels but they are great! I'm happy with them.

    My road bike has Easton EA90 slx's and they have been amazing wheels for the last 2 years. I'm confident this will be just as great!

    Yody, keep up the posts! It's definately opened my eyes about what to look for. Good luck!

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutup75
    Well, I got my first ride in on these wheels today. They are such an improvement from my stock wheels. I scratched a line in mine before I rode to see if anything moved. I only rode about 20 miles half climbing half decending. There is NO play at all. I checked everything out for about half hr after the ride. No issues to report, they are super responsive, they definately make different noises than the stock wheels but they are great! I'm happy with them.

    My road bike has Easton EA90 slx's and they have been amazing wheels for the last 2 years. I'm confident this will be just as great!

    Yody, keep up the posts! It's definately opened my eyes about what to look for. Good luck!
    Good to hear! Now go ride some rocky stuff and report back! They are dope wheels for sure, theres a reason I was so excited to run them, and I still am, just want to be able to set it and forget it

    On a sidenote I love the way these wheels sound, super smooth and silky, not too loud, but with a quality lowkey buzz

  169. #169
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    Yody, , , bummer about this latest episode. Maybe readjust without loctite for awhile and let the bearings wear in is the best strategy at this point and then loctite them when they stabilize.

    This is highly unlikely, but, , , I read recently about a guy that was bending derailleur hangers frequently and was wondering why. Someone suggested he check his chain length while the suspension was fully compressed (depressurized). Sure enough, it turns out he was running a double ring, gs derailleur, and TOO short of a chain for fs.

    Btw just my .02, but I'd still put that wheel on another bike and see if loosens up there.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Music
    Yody, , , bummer about this latest episode. Maybe readjust without loctite for awhile and let the bearings wear in is the best strategy at this point and then loctite them when they stabilize.

    This is highly unlikely, but, , , I read recently about a guy that was bending derailleur hangers frequently and was wondering why. Someone suggested he check his chain length while the suspension was fully compressed (depressurized). Sure enough, it turns out he was running a double ring, gs derailleur, and TOO short of a chain for fs.

    Btw just my .02, but I'd still put that wheel on another bike and see if loosens up there.
    I've had multiple setups with this rear wheel, triple, double with 32 and 36, my chain length has been fine the whole time.

  171. #171
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    Went to Joaquin Miller today and rode a bit of DH. Wheel loosened up slightly again, but doesn't seem to be too bad, just a little bit of play, and it only does it ever so slightly in a few spots. If it doesn't loosen up anymore I'll call it acceptable. We'll see how this weekend goes, I think its gonna be Demo tomorrow, it'll get put through the paces, I'll know for sure if it loosens up worse or not after tomorrow
    Last edited by Yody; 05-07-2010 at 04:17 PM.

  172. #172
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    Rode Demo in Santa Cruz today, including Braille and Sawpit. Rear wheel yet again feels like it got progressively a little looser.After the first ride it was only loose when you clocked the wheel in a few spots, now the wheel is loose all around the clock My friend who I convinced to get a set at Mikes Bikes are loose also after 2 rides, although its possible his just needed a first time adjustment. From what I understand its typical to need one first adjustment.

    I'm going to try and ride Rockville tomorrow am and get some good rocky riding in, if it gets even looser I'll figure this is something inherently wrong with this wheel. If it doesn't get looser I'm okay with the amount of play it has, everyone I've had grab the wheel and rock it feels the play so I know its not just me. With the amount of play it has I can't feel it while riding so if it stays that way I'll be okay with it. I have a feeling it will get worse though, just like it did the first time around.

    Good news is that Easton left me 2 voicemails on friday. Sounds like they are opening up the communication lines. That will be huge, I wouldn't of had any complaints if I would of had a reliable contact in the first place. I'd REALLY like to keep these wheels, they perform awesome, I'm hoping with the help of a dependable Easton tech we can get to the bottom of the issue.

    My feeling is that there is something up with the bearings, maybe a bad batch or the wrong spec. I could be wrong though, I was wrong about the preloader, but after the process of elimination that seems the only logical culprit
    Last edited by Yody; 05-08-2010 at 05:16 PM.

  173. #173
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    FYI, I've got about 100 miles on my Havens, mostly at Annadel, with plenty of rides down Rough Go and Two Quarry, and I have no play. Knock on wood.
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    Nice! That great news! I was wondering if u would post up, annadel shoulf be giving those wheels a good workout for sure. How are you checking for play? Wait a second... no lawndale, North and South Burma??? Shame on you! haha
    Last edited by Yody; 05-08-2010 at 06:24 PM.

  175. #175
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    I just hit the 100 mile mark on my havens today and they're still true and have no play...

    granted im not the best rider out there... but im pretty sure that my lack of skill translates into a beating on the bike .

    I check for play by holding the seat with one hand, grabbing the tire with the other end and push/pull in opposite direction. Spin the wheel ~45 degrees and retest.
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  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk1er18
    I just hit the 100 mile mark on my havens today and they're still true and have no play...

    granted im not the best rider out there... but im pretty sure that my lack of skill translates into a beating on the bike .

    I check for play by holding the seat with one hand, grabbing the tire with the other end and push/pull in opposite direction. Spin the wheel ~45 degrees and retest.
    Thats pretty much how I do it too, except I grab the frame not seat, same difference.

    Thats great news.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Rode Demo in Santa Cruz today, including Braille and Sawpit.
    I was at Demo today doing trailwork on Ridge and Corral. I don't recall seeing any white Mojos flyin' by. I would have liked to check out this play.

    We cut a TON of poison oak out of Ridge today. That weed is sprouting up all over.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    I was at Demo today doing trailwork on Ridge and Corral. I don't recall seeing any white Mojos flyin' by. I would have liked to check out this play.

    We cut a TON of poison oak out of Ridge today. That weed is sprouting up all over.
    We started @ about. 830/9 and were done by 12 ish. Didn't go down corral and didn't see any trailworkers either. Thanks for keepin the trails up! Didn't see much poison oak and I was lookin for it, since I have it bad on my arm right now

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    Just got back from an 18hr race in Fruita. I rode 55miles this weekend with no play, no issues. I talked to two others with Haven's 1 26er and 1 29er, both no issues no play the 26er has about 200 miles on his, I don't know about the 29er guy, but he was hammering the course.

    I'm going to be it's a bad batch of bearings your got. I'm super stoked with mine!

    Good luck, keep pluggin away

  180. #180
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    Awesome news!!!

    Returned a Voicemail I received from Easton on Friday today. I'm back on the bandwagon! They are going to test a wheel, make sure it is %100 solid and are going to ship it to me this week and only ask that I return the old wheel, all shipping paid for and everything.

    THIS is the kind of service I have come to expect from the mountain bike industry and is exactly what I had been hoping for! Looks like evverything is going to be taken care of, and hopefullly Easton can accurately analyze this old wheel and figure out what the issue is, so if anyone in the future has the same problem they will have a solution

    Totally satisfied
    Last edited by Yody; 05-10-2010 at 11:42 PM.

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    Glad to hear Easton is coming through for you, Yody ! Good customer service is priceless. I may be putting that to the test myself as my rear hub loosened again today about 7 miles into a ride. Good thing I brought my cone wrench. I snugged up the preload with the wheel on the bike. At the end of the ride, 15 total miles, the rear hub was still fine. Maybe, just maybe...

    Anyone know what the bearing sizes are in the Haven rear hub?

  182. #182
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    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 06-03-2010 at 07:57 AM.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    You guys realize that some hubs take a few adjustments over time to seat in. Out of all the King hubs I've owned I've had some seat in after one adjustment and others have taken 7 times going back and snugging things up over months before they're golden and the play is gone.

    Problem with these Easton hubs/wheels is that they're too new to have a history to them. Perhaps the complaints are justified, but high end, hand built hubs sometimes require a bit of extra care to dial in initially-that's also probably why they're built so that tearing them apart to clean and service is rather easy.

    I beat mine up this weekend and so far no play. Figure I'm a heavy guy to boot. I looked over the Haven hubs and it's obvious they're built quite a bit differently (fairly user friendly) than say off the shelf DT Swiss hubs or whatever. Try and get deep into a rear DT Swiss hub and you're in for an experience.

    Anyway....
    So how do you like the performance of the wheels?

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    So how do you like the performance of the wheels?
    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 06-03-2010 at 07:58 AM.

  185. #185
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    Nice!!

    BTW these wheels take abuse pretty well, not sure how aggressive you are but I've put these wheels through the ringer, cutty's, 3-4-5 ft drops/jumps, rock gardens, berms, and a few spills, have abused the front wheel pretty good, have even bottomed out the tire and hit the rim and could hear the spokes from the impact and it still remained true and undented.

    Besides the hub play, the only damage I've managed to do besides scratches and scrapes, is I bent a rear spole, must of caught on something, just happened the other day in fact, was gonna throw a new spoke on but since I'm gettiin a new wheel anyway.....

    They are quite tough for being so light and low spoke count

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    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 06-03-2010 at 07:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Glad to hear Easton is coming through for you, Yody ! Good customer service is priceless. I may be putting that to the test myself as my rear hub loosened again today about 7 miles into a ride. Good thing I brought my cone wrench. I snugged up the preload with the wheel on the bike. At the end of the ride, 15 total miles, the rear hub was still fine. Maybe, just maybe...

    Anyone know what the bearing sizes are in the Haven rear hub?
    Went out for another ride today, a quick 10 miler thorugh somewhat rocky and rooty trails with a few whoop de do's and a couple 2-3 foot drops. I am happy to report no play in the rear hub at all. I now have put about 20 miles on them with no play developing. We'll see how it progresses, but I am more optimistic now

  188. #188
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    Yody

    Do you know the type and size of the bearings in the Easton Haven hubs, front and rear?

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Yody

    Do you know the type and size of the bearings in the Easton Haven hubs, front and rear?
    No I don't, however I've come to the conclusion sometjing is just funny with this wheel in particular. I don't think there is really anything wrong with the bearings that are spec'd.

    On another note, supposed to get the new rear wheel this week

  190. #190
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    Hey Yody,
    to adjust preload, do I have to take off the rearwheel from the frame or is it better to do it while the wheel is installed to the frame?

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    No I don't, however I've come to the conclusion sometjing is just funny with this wheel in particular. I don't think there is really anything wrong with the bearings that are spec'd.

    On another note, supposed to get the new rear wheel this week
    Okay, was just curiious. My preload adjusters / bearing play appears to be corrected. Haven't had to adjust them in a wile now.

    But I do get an unusual sound comng from the front rim occasionally, usually a few miles into the ride when things warm up. It sounds like a higher pitched hum, a harmonic resonance of sort. It will last 2-3 tire revolutions, then go away, It doesn't happen every revolution either. This heppens in cycles, and usually happens at very low speeds. Two other riders with me heard it this weekend while we were riding. It drives me crazy.

    I've adjusted the front wheel preload to just about as perfect as I can. Each time I ride, the noise comes back, usually about 30 minutes into the ride. I've done a full checklist; brake rotor rubbing, headset loose, 15mm front axle greased correctly, tire/riim running true. I'm baffled. About all I can think of is a dry spot in the bearing, and the hum / resonance happens when that dry spot rids the race or the bearing outer.

    I can't reproduce this sound with the wheel spinning on the workstand or the truing stand, only with some load on it. The wheel spins very freely, so I don't think anything is binding.

    Any ideas ?

  192. #192
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    Pull the bearings and grease them? How hard is it to do?
    milesW

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsvrjimbo02
    Okay, was just curiious. My preload adjusters / bearing play appears to be corrected. Haven't had to adjust them in a wile now.

    But I do get an unusual sound comng from the front rim occasionally, usually a few miles into the ride when things warm up. It sounds like a higher pitched hum, a harmonic resonance of sort. It will last 2-3 tire revolutions, then go away, It doesn't happen every revolution either. This heppens in cycles, and usually happens at very low speeds. Two other riders with me heard it this weekend while we were riding. It drives me crazy.

    I've adjusted the front wheel preload to just about as perfect as I can. Each time I ride, the noise comes back, usually about 30 minutes into the ride. I've done a full checklist; brake rotor rubbing, headset loose, 15mm front axle greased correctly, tire/riim running true. I'm baffled. About all I can think of is a dry spot in the bearing, and the hum / resonance happens when that dry spot rids the race or the bearing outer.

    I can't reproduce this sound with the wheel spinning on the workstand or the truing stand, only with some load on it. The wheel spins very freely, so I don't think anything is binding.

    Any ideas ?
    Try a thin coat of grease on the spacers where they contact the bearings and hub flange. I have had a similar issue with my hopes.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  194. #194
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    I talked with Scott at Easton today. A great conversation and customer service. He is issuing a call tag for me to send both rims in to be checked out for both issues. I'll be sending them out tomorrow.

  195. #195
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    Update!

    Received my new wheel and went out for a ride at Annadel, rode North and South Burma trails Super-D style at full pace putting the new wheel through the paces and at the end of the ride the rear hub is PERFECT! (even got a thumbsup from a fellow Mojo rider as I passed him going down the second Burma haha!) Absolutely no play whatsoever and the bearings even broke in a bit as the wheel spins much more freely than when it came out of the box. The wheel needs absolutely no adjustments.

    It might only be one ride but one the old wheel it started loosening up even after the first ride, and again it loosened up on the first ride after it had the new bearings replaced. I feel confident that there was something not right about the old hub, it was one of the very first set of wheels that Easton shipped, as they were not even out when I ordered them. Whatever the issue is it doesnt' seem to be apparent with the new wheel.

    Totally stoked! Even had a few riders comment on the wheels on the trail and they sounded like they were looking at getting a pair as well. There's really nothing available that touches these wheels!

    And on another note, my experiences with Eastons customer service has been top notch as of lately. I think they have everything going really well for them now.

  196. #196
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    Oh and as a FYI it looks like everyone getting the Mojo HD will be able to run the Havens as there is a rear Maxle option available!

  197. #197
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    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 06-03-2010 at 07:59 AM.

  198. #198
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    Upset

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    And on another note, my experiences with Eastons customer service has been top notch as of lately. I think they have everything going really well for them now.
    My current experience with Easton is far different. I am not sure how you get quick, quality service, because they have had my defective Havoc AM wheel for over 5 weeks. I have received no call backs/emails from them. The number of times I have called the have no F'n clue whats going on with my wheel. I will be out my primary rear wheel for 2+ months when all is said and done (maybe longer at this rate) due to a defect, not a service request.

    At one point I was thinking about getting a new set of Havens, but now with this piss poor customer service I have recieved it may take an act of God for me to purchase another Easton wheel product.

    I guess experiences vary though...

    Sorry for the derail Yody, this is a good long term review of a product.

  199. #199
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    Just got back from a Fruita/Moab trip...No issues to report, we rode 2 days in Fruita and 4 days in Moab. Everything is super tight nothing bad to report. These are great wheels!

  200. #200
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    So far, my experience with Easton customer service has been much more like Yody's. One email and a couple phone calles, and Scott at Easton sent out a Fedex call tag for both wheels to come back to them. Fedex picked them up today. Hopefully, I shouldn't be hanging for too long.

    My Tracer is out of service for now as I have no other 15QR rims to slap on it. So, I'll be riding the Stumpjumper at Tsali this weekend instead !

    As a side note, Scott at Easton was aware of Yody's situation. In fact, we talked about Yody's rear hub as it related to my issue.

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