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  1. #1
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    Mojo HD vs DW 5-Spot Thoughts

    Firstly bit of backgroundÖ..Iím a big Turner fan ever since getting a Horst-Link 5-Spot 6 years ago, so much so that my sonís middle name is Turner! Iím also a big fan of the DW Link, having bought an early Ibis Mojo, and I agree with the hype that it is the ďbestĒ suspension design out there for all the reasons that have been discussed at length on various forums. I sold the Mojo after about a year as the medium frame was a bit too small for me, and Iíd already cracked 2 rear triangles, so when Turner adopted the DW Link I was first in the queue for a 5-Spot, which Iíve been running for over 18 months. However, when Ibis announced the HD, I was very keen to try it, to see if it offered the best of both. I therefore got my local Ibis dealer (Head for the Hills in Dorking) to get 2-Pureís demo in ASAP!

    Now to the comparison of the 5-Spot vs Mojo HD, and some observations vs a standard Mojo.
    I chose an area of the Surrey Hills I knew well, and that contained a decent mix of trails, from twisty singletrack, steep stuff, and a short section of rocky downhill, as well as plenty of climbing. For those that know the area, I rode around the Judgeís Seat area for much of the test.
    I started off on the 5-Spot (a large), which is set up with Float 36, a CCDB shock, Mavic SX wheels, and Rubber Queen 2.2Ē tyres, which weighs in at 30lbs. I rode for an hour to get the feel of the bike again, as Iíve recently been riding my hardtail rather than full suss.
    I then switched over to the HD (a medium), which was set up with Talas 36, Fox RP23 shock, Crank Bros Iodine wheels, and RQ 2.2Ē tyres. I was a bit disappointed to weigh the bike also at 30lbs given the carbon construct, and the fact that the 5-Spot was running a coil shock. The HD frame is listed as being over 1/2lb lighter than the 5-Spot, so I guess there is scope to build it lighter, but itís never going to be a major difference.
    The first thing you notice is that the HD feels slightly more sprightly when setting off up a climb or picking up speed Ė itís not a major difference, and after a short while the weight kicks in to remind you that youíre not on a lightweight flyer.
    The second thing you notice is that the HD is not as plush over small hits such as tree roots. This could well be down to the coil on the 5-Spot Ė I did think about switching the 5-Spot back to an air can, but decided I wanted to test them both as I would usually ride them. Ibis and DW say the HD has been designed around an air can and donít recommend a coil, but I do wonder what the HD would be like with a coil, especially one of the quality of the CCDB. Interestingly I think Lopes has been running a Mojo + coil recently.
    Once picking up speed, the HD feels a bit more planted than the 5-Spot, whilst still feeling very flickable and agile. I think this comes from the bottom bracket being around ĹĒ lower than the 5-Spot; wheelbase of both bikes is very similar.
    Dropping into some steeper trails, the HD gives more confidence to carry greater speed into the corners and rail through them. The head angle is about 1.5deg slacker on the HD, and the front end over ĹĒ lower, which combined means your weight is over the front more, and you find youíre on the power quicker out of the corners.
    Through undulating twisty singletrack, both bikes pumped well through the dips, but the Mojo seemed able to maintain more speed Ė a characteristic I remember of the regular Mojo.
    Dropping into a high-speed rocky descent, both bikes feel very controlled and solid. The HD doesnít necessarily feel it has 20mm more in travel, but also the CCDB doesnít shine through as much here, so perhaps the two were cancelling each other out.
    After a couple of hours on the HD I then went back to the 5-Spot and rode for about 15 mins, just to confirm my thoughts. This emphasised something Iíd felt all through the test, in that on the 5-Spot I felt I was sitting on the bike, whilst on the HD it felt I was sitting in the bike, which I generally prefer. This is undoubtedly due to the higher BB and front end of the Turner, and whilst this could be changed with shorter-travel forks, this would emphasis even more the difference in head angle.
    Itís worth noting that despite the talk about being able to throw an HD down a downhill course, it doesnít give you the confidence to hit jumps and drops the way something like an Intense Slopestyle or SX Trail does, so itís no substitute for a playbike or downhill bike.
    As a comparison to the standard Mojo, the weight makes itself obvious when sprinting and climbing, and it doesnít feel as nimble flicking from side to side, but on the positive side, the slacker angles give you more confidence on steep and/or more technical terrain, although putting longer forks on a standard Mojo may get you some of the way there Ė that would be an interesting test.

    So which is better? For me, the HD wins as tested above, despite the suspension not being as plush, as itís a more confidence-inspiring bike that encourages more speed into most situations. Throw into the mix you could run it with 180mm forks, or swap out the link and shock to run the rear at 140mm / 68deg head angle, then you have a bike that is also more versatile. Itís a bit disappointing it isnít that much lighter, but then you have the regular Mojo for that.
    Is it worth the upgrade? I donít know Ė Iím still pondering that. There are more and more bikes on the market at around the 150mm travel and slacker head angles, so Iím keen to see what else is out there. However, as a bike to cover so many bases, the HD pretty damn awesome; I can imagine running it at 140mm around Surrey Hills one minute, then at 160mm for a trip to the Lakes, then sticking some 180mm forks on it for a trip to the Alps. There arenít many bikes that could do that, let alone be an awesome ride at the same time!

  2. #2
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    After a 20 mile HD demo on familiar rocky rooty singletrack mixed with secons of smooth hardpacked rollers woops berms and trailside jumps, I am certain the HD will be coil friendly without blowing though deep travel. DW recommends the RC4 coil. unless you are a big jump pilot, I could feel after 8 or 9 years riding coiled trail bikes that the air assist of an RC4 is not required on the HD as it is on the Mojo C (or a bottom travel progressive bumper).

    Also the Talas I rode on the HD was harsh, but not as bad as many I've demoed. It would be rare the HD would benefit form lowering the fork, it climbs very easily at 160mm travel, a Float 36 would be a better fork for the demo bikes.

    Interesting comparison. Seems like a Large HD would be a closer fit to compare with the large 5 Spot (or Mojo large having exact same size and geometry as the 5 Spot large). Thanks!

  3. #3
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    I am curious to see how the HD will work in 140 mode with a 32 fork and angleset slacked out to 67 deg. You would save some weight and still have the slack head angle of the normal HD. Could be a fun and light setup.

  4. #4
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    Sort of a strange comparison, since the 5 Spot is closer to the normal Mojo, Turner doesn't make a 6" bike, but I think their RFX would be a slightly better apples to apples?

    The weight of the HD seems a bit high with that part selection?

    I am liking the new 36 TALAS 160 RLS (160/120) as it breaks in, and on the wicked steep the 120 works pretty decently, but the mid stroke is a bit bone shattering to me, so I need to do some more tuning? The Kashima Coated stanchion are pretty slick, and the RLC is nice for adjusted lockout.

  5. #5
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    Nice write up!

    I imagine if your demoed a large HD, which would be the same size as the Spot, you may have found it even more stable on the DH. I have also found running DH tires enhances the DHability of the HD as well as improving small bump absorption.

    I owned an 05 HL 5 Spot a few years ago, and compared to that bike, I would say the RFX would have been a much better comparison to the HD. But at the moment there is no RFX and the Spot is beefed up.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock
    I imagine if your demoed a large HD, which would be the same size as the Spot, you may have found it even more stable on the DH.
    +1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    After a 20 mile HD demo on familiar rocky rooty singletrack mixed with secons of smooth hardpacked rollers woops berms and trailside jumps, I am certain the HD will be coil friendly without blowing though deep travel. DW recommends the RC4 coil. unless you are a big jump pilot, I could feel after 8 or 9 years riding coiled trail bikes that the air assist of an RC4 is not required on the HD as it is on the Mojo C (or a bottom travel progressive bumper).

    Also the Talas I rode on the HD was harsh, but not as bad as many I've demoed. It would be rare the HD would benefit form lowering the fork, it climbs very easily at 160mm travel, a Float 36 would be a better fork for the demo bikes.

    Interesting comparison. Seems like a Large HD would be a closer fit to compare with the large 5 Spot (or Mojo large having exact same size and geometry as the 5 Spot large). Thanks!
    Are you suggesting to remove the air assist in the RC4?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    Are you suggesting to remove the air assist in the RC4?
    The feel of the HD rear suspension is more rising rate than the Mojo C and SL, it is much harder to bottom out. I think air assist and deep travel "Boost" compression damping would not be required for trail ride use if full travel use is desired, for someone who doesnít do large jumps. Any good quality coil shock without platform damping would work well with speed sensitive normal progressively adjustable LS/HS compression damping, such as the cane Creek Double Barrel, or Fox Vanilla RC, RS Vivid, Marzocchi WC.

    The RC4 would work well also and if bottoming jump landings or wallowing in deep travel g-outs the RC4 has the adjustability to ramp up deep travel progression more like the Rp23 with Boost valve.

    The RC4 sounds like a great shock for trail riding the HD, as long as that Boost valve can be turned off completely.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    The feel of the HD rear suspension is more rising rate than the Mojo C and SL, it is much harder to bottom out. I think air assist and deep travel "Boost" compression damping would not be required for trail ride use if full travel use is desired, for someone who doesnít do large jumps. Any good quality coil shock without platform damping would work well with speed sensitive normal progressively adjustable LS/HS compression damping, such as the cane Creek Double Barrel, or Fox Vanilla RC, RS Vivid, Marzocchi WC.

    The RC4 would work well also and if bottoming jump landings or wallowing in deep travel g-outs the RC4 has the adjustability to ramp up deep travel progression more like the Rp23 with Boost valve.

    The RC4 sounds like a great shock for trail riding the HD, as long as that Boost valve can be turned off completely.
    You do realize that this air assist chamber is necessary for the shock to work, right? ALl the shocks you mentioned have gas chambers, which, by extension, depending on your weight, can be air-assist.

    The rest is typical ******** from you. You don't ride like you know "g-outs".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    You do realize that this air assist chamber is necessary for the shock to work, right? ALl the shocks you mentioned have gas chambers, which, by extension, depending on your weight, can be air-assist.

    The rest is typical ******** from you. You don't ride like you know "g-outs".
    The shocks I listed don't have externally adjustable gas chambers and are not designed to be variable in setting up sealed gas pressure, everyone buys each shock with the same internal pressure, except the RC4 having external air volume adjust and schrader valve.

    Take care.

  11. #11
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    So run it with no air?

  12. #12
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    Why the aggro junk?

  13. #13
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    Derby is a wonderful source of misinformation.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    Derby is a wonderful source of misinformation.
    The DHX line of shocks including the RC4 require a minimum air pressure setting, I think it is 125 psi, better yet, check the manual.

    Please correct me if I'm in error. I haven't stopped learning.

  15. #15
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    Of course, as always, hide behind the "I'm learning", when you get called on stuff you don't know, but present as being an authority.

  16. #16
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    so what are your superior credentials junkman?
    I love suspension so maybe you could share

  17. #17
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    What are your credentials? Believing Derby on anything he says? Are you derby's white knight?

    http://encyclopediadramatica.com/White_Knighting

    Credentials, you mean using said products?

  18. #18
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    junktrunk, get a room, with yourself. leave the hating out of the forum, at least derby admits when he's off the mark.
    This thread's about 5-spot Vs Mojo HD right so let's get back to people replying on that.
    Peace out.

  19. #19
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    I have to say I'm severely disappointed in the Ibis folk. Had this been any other forum there would have been an e-comparisson of the Mojo HD vs. the DW Link e-RFX by post #10. We're already at #18 or so and instead it's just some e-bickering.
    It's obvious that neu-Fred junktrunk is a just a rouse to throw people off from the real arguments.
    Come on, let's get the knitting circle in full swing! Before you know it this thread will be at post #20 and not have accomplished e-anything.



    Plus, it looks like junktrunk has an issue with other DW Link brands as well.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by humdinger
    junktrunk, get a room, with yourself. leave the hating out of the forum, at least derby admits when he's off the mark.
    This thread's about 5-spot Vs Mojo HD right so let's get back to people replying on that.
    Peace out.
    Derby only admits being off the mark when called on it, otherwise you folks believe and hang on his every word of wisdom, sometimes even discussing products he proves he doesn't even own, and then the white knights on the internet come and defend him.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    Derby is a wonderful source of misinformation.
    Go home, troll.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  22. #22
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    Anyone with any nouse takes the OPINIONS on here as just that; not fact just opinion. Having been an addicted mountain biker for nearly 20 years, I feel happy to say that most of Derby's input is pretty accurate. By all means RESPECTFULLY offer a different perspective or spot mistakes, but take ur rants elsewhere. We're here from an interest in Ibis, if u are too then great, welcome. Otherwise don't waste bandwidth.
    Peace out.
    'White knight'

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    Quote Originally Posted by humdinger
    Anyone with any nouse takes the OPINIONS on here as just that; not fact just opinion. Having been an addicted mountain biker for nearly 20 years, I feel happy to say that most of Derby's input is pretty accurate. By all means RESPECTFULLY offer a different perspective or spot mistakes, but take ur rants elsewhere. We're here from an interest in Ibis, if u are too then great, welcome. Otherwise don't waste bandwidth.
    Peace out.
    'White knight'
    here's one pitiful example, which he even brought to another forum later:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=480404

    a few posts before 81:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...light=hope+pro

    He even got busted when his buddies revealed stuff he did with the hub, like filling it completely with oil.

    A great one I read was somewhere in the past where he explained that HSC controls slow hits, while LSC controls big hits...

  24. #24
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    Bandwidth..... waste of.... Over and out.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    here's one pitiful example, which he even brought to another forum later:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=480404

    a few posts before 81:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...light=hope+pro

    He even got busted when his buddies revealed stuff he did with the hub, like filling it completely with oil.

    A great one I read was somewhere in the past where he explained that HSC controls slow hits, while LSC controls big hits...
    Jerk Chicken? Is that you?
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  26. #26
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    Derby is brillant

    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    Derby only admits being off the mark when called on it, otherwise you folks believe and hang on his every word of wisdom, sometimes even discussing products he proves he doesn't even own, and then the white knights on the internet come and defend him.
    Awesome and he is smart. We worship him...he is the king of knowledge.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    Jerk Chicken? Is that you?
    LOL!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk

    A great one I read was somewhere in the past where he explained that HSC controls slow hits, while LSC controls big hits...
    Actually I think PUSH has said the same thing to confirm this. Big hits by themselfs like landing a drop is actually a high speed movement, which is wear hs can come into play.

    Derby doesn't strike me as a fast Downhiler so I take his input with a grain of salt. Strikes me more of the engineer type which can't always comprehend everything as different speeds change the playing field, but I do typically find his posts of interest (when he's not obviously wrong or when he starts talking about ghey 650b)) and surely he didn't deserve your trolling.

    If you really had a bone to pick I think you could of came about calling him out in a more respectful way.

  29. #29
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    oh boy. Gotta love the web......

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Actually I think PUSH has said the same thing to confirm this. Big hits by themselfs like landing a drop is actually a high speed movement, which is wear hs can come into play.

    Derby doesn't strike me as a fast Downhiler so I take his input with a grain of salt. Strikes me more of the engineer type which can't always comprehend everything as different speeds change the playing field, but I do typically find his posts of interest (when he's not obviously wrong or when he starts talking about ghey 650b)) and surely he didn't deserve your trolling.

    If you really had a bone to pick I think you could of came about calling him out in a more respectful way.
    Thanks Yody, and everyone for the dose of sanity. Jerk Chicken usually gets blocked within a few posts. The admins must be on vacation.

    BTW, I'm faster than most downhill, it is rare riders catch me. But not crazy fast down on open trail, too many hikers and other bikes. And I am getting more cautious with older age.

    Just did a day at Northstar, second ever, no one caught me, I passed many. Gypsy and Flameout. Gypsy was too destroyed by beginners skidding, Flameout was still mostly high flying finishing with Photodog. Faster each run, as I gained familiarity the faster I got, longer air, and the easier it is. I could see getting into Livewire on the Mojo with a few more days of getting increasing air time. Karpial and some of the others really need long suspension due to the chunk.

    And you obviously haven't ridden 650b. The sure helped clear the chunk at N*

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    here's one pitiful example, which he even brought to another forum later:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=480404

    a few posts before 81:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...light=hope+pro

    He even got busted when his buddies revealed stuff he did with the hub, like filling it completely with oil.

    A great one I read was somewhere in the past where he explained that HSC controls slow hits, while LSC controls big hits...
    Blah blah... you're down on derby.. Blah blah..... Anything productive to contribute? I mean besides your blanket warning to not believe derby? I have no idea if what derby says is true, but I am getting the distinct impression that you are an a-hole.

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