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  1. #1
    aka dan51
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    Mojo: A few questions before I buy

    I demo'd a large Mojo today. It was nice with the exception of a few things, that hopefully people here can comment on. Note, I'll only be buying the frame only and using my existing parts.

    1. Drive train noise was ridiculous on bumpy sections. I run SRAM X9 in a 2X9 setup on my Stumpy and have very little noise in the same sections of trail. The demo bike had an XT 3X9 setup, and the chain was slapping the chainstay right behind the chainrings, where the chainstay wrapping ended. Does anyone have a quiet bike? If not, this bike will be off the list of possible frames.

    2. How many of you "sized up"? Meaning, you usually ride large bikes, but due to the short top tube are now running an XL. It looks like the bikes all come with longer stems that I like. The demo had a 100m stem, and I still felt like I was in front of the bike at times. The stem I have is a Thomson 90mm.

    3. Any reports of broken frames? I'm about 220 with gear, and am a little concerned about the strength of carbon. I've read that some riders about my weight have never had a problem, but surely someone out there has broken one. It's promising that Lopes races the bike, but if he broke it he'd likely just be handed another one.

    4. Anyone running larger tires than the Nev 2.1? I run Specialized Eskar 2.3 and Resolution 2.3. Do either of those fit in back? Do they rub?

    5. Anyone also ride the new Blur? That's the other bike on my hotlist. How did they compare.

    Thanks
    -Dan (hopeful Mojo owner to be)

  2. #2
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    I attached some rubber strips above and below the chainstay that made it much less noisy. somewhere in here is a pic http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=378506
    Easy enough to do.
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  3. #3
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    I run a 2x9 x9 set-up, with the Ibis chainstay protector and it's very quiet. I had chain suck issues with the 3x9 set up and longer chain.

    I use Conti mt king 2.4's front and back, no rubbing.

  4. #4
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    There is a heated debate on the Allmountain Forum, comparing Mojo, Yeti 575, Blur LT, Intense 5.5 and maybe a few more bikes. I like my Mojo though.
    milesW

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    4. Anyone running larger tires than the Nev 2.1? I run Specialized Eskar 2.3 and Resolution 2.3. Do either of those fit in back? Do they rub?
    Those should fit fine without rubbing.

    Two of my riding buddies have Mojo's. They've used 2.3 WTB Timberwolf, 2.4 Panaracer Fire FR, 2.3 Maxxis Minions and never had a problem with clearance. Those are all as big or bigger than the Eskar or Resolution 2.3's.

  6. #6
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    Quiet

    I run Sram 2x9 short cage and 11-27 or 11-25(racing) cassette and all my mates say my bike makes hardly any noise when they are trying to keep up with my mojo.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    I demo'd a large Mojo today.
    2. How many of you "sized up"? Meaning, you usually ride large bikes, but due to the short top tube are now running an XL. It looks like the bikes all come with longer stems that I like. The demo had a 100m stem, and I still felt like I was in front of the bike at times. The stem I have is a Thomson 90mm.
    5. Anyone also ride the new Blur? That's the other bike on my hotlist. How did they compare.

    Thanks
    -Dan (hopeful Mojo owner to be)
    Did you do the demo program at Trail Head Cyclery ? Really the Moj shines on extreme technical rocky/rooty riding uphill or down. So you should take out for a couple of hours.
    The Blur will come in a pound heavier with almost the same head angle and top tube length. (despite what their website says for tt length.) Blur classic and LT great bikes btw.(just be aware of lower bearing placement and dreaded blur creak..u will get it and retightened/or turn cap for or grease bearings every 3rd of 4th long ride.) That said, really love my Blur. Moj rides lighter in every way with more travel. (Note comparing Blur classic very similar to LT of old.)
    IMHO Moj sizing. If you love downhills you might like larger. If you love uphills you might like smaller.
    but if he broke it he'd likely just be handed another one.
    So would you. Ibis customer service is that good. But this carbon design is extremly strong and carbon uphill and down has a remarkable ride quality that of which 24/7 u constantly receive feedback from.... feel. Sorry hopefully u get the idea.
    More sizing:
    I am of the club of all around body fit cardio nuts with strong core/suspension and flexibility so I like to stretch out on a responsive bike for marathon rides. Thus, I was also concerned about top tube length and responsiveness of slack h/a. So turns out sizing ideas of Ibis for Moj was perfect for me but also for the stablity downhill crowd. I get a smaller frame size feel with responsive front-end.
    I wow-nd up running the same size stem 120mm as the designer of the frame who is also ultrafit and seems to like an all around responsive bike. But his riding buddy on his moj runs 90mm stem and is in it for the downhills < also an extremly fit fellow.)
    Read around these forums and mtbr reviews the downhill guys also rave about the stablity and feel for downhill stuff.
    Btw, for my demo program I changed out wheels and tires to mine as well as cockpit and saddle. I wanted the truest appraisal I could give it because of all of the (quite honestly I felt too much ) hype. Yes and I gave up my water bottle mount.
    Take your time deciding taking bikes out and trying them is an awful lot of fun ! Esp on a Moj.
    Sorry if this sounds more daft than usual and a lil giddy I did another 100k on it a few hours ago.


    Last edited by ghawk; 07-17-2008 at 01:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    Yes, I have disciplined my Mojo enough times that it knows not to be so damn loud on the trails.....Bad Mojo.....bad. Try it, it works.

    Chain slap happens on every bike....it's not like the chain can not bounce around. It may be better or worse depending on which bike but it will always happen on bikes with a traditional rear triangle. If that is going to make or break the deal, I feel really bad for you. I'm not going to recommend how you can dampen the sound because it's pretty obvious how to.

  9. #9
    aka dan51
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    Thanks for the responses guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk


    Did you do the demo program at Trail Head Cyclery ?
    Yep. I think next week I'll get the XL for demo, but swap my fork, handle bar, and stem onto it. The entire ride yesterday I kept saying I wish I had my stuff on here. I may even swap brake pads. The demo bike had metallic ones in it, which have less stopping power, more noise, and fade faster than the resin ones. That was another reason I felt unsafe on some of the downhills we did. At one point the rear brake stopped working completely.

  10. #10
    mmm
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    So soon? Seems like you just got the Stumpy.

    FWIW, Nativeson found a crack in the rear swing arm of his Mojo. It was most likely just the clearcoat though. Ibis gave him a brand new rear swingarm no questions asked.
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  11. #11
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    Yep. I think next week I'll get the XL for demo, but swap my fork, handle bar, and stem onto it.
    That's a great idea. I did that several times between the med. and large over a couple of weeks till I figured everything out. I got the parts switch down to assembly line speed. Actually, I switched to my 3 stage talas also. Since I wanted to check out how it felt climbing and tuned with compression/rebound/lockout and with a slacker h/a at 100mm and downhill at 140mm (the race spacing worked fine btw.) . If you do that be sure and get the headset shim washer correct.
    http://www.canecreek.com/old/fileadm...12-16-2004.pdf
    I did not get that first time I did it.
    So in ~ten minutes i could switch seatpost (I had a 31.6 seatpost), saddle-adjust fore/aft/angle and height, move fork, handlebars and bar ends, pedals, and my spinergy wheels. Wild huh. But...if you want a true test you get as close as you can in comfort..Plus I was really torn between sizes, so several times I switched till I was sure.
    I had a pretty serious rent to own bill going. Be sure they give you that money back if you buy the frame from them. That is the way it is supposed to work. But any individual shop can do what it wants I guess.
    Edit Discourse on chain noise.

    1. Drive train noise was ridiculous on bumpy sections.
    I began to wonder about this today so I went without noise protection (ipod) today. I have to very much disagree with this assessment. Now remember though my SL has a chain stay protector yet I tend to run an xtra link of chain, some guys run a link or even 2 shorter than that. Also, the smart money on the long downhill is to run the chain "crossed up" to largest cog in back** and big ring in front - to fully tension chain - but mostly to protect your right calf from ring rake. (Ever now an then you will see a rider who has a 2-3 inch scar from this. I've been doing this along time and know better....) Anway, MojSL : xtremly quiet bike for a carbon. -Note though I beleive the rubber paint on the SL's dampen the carbon bike noise quite a bit. So if you where riding a classic, your results may be a little lounder, and more of a hollow sound if I remember.
    **note where that keeps the rear der cage. and of course I don't crank it that way.
    Last edited by ghawk; 07-18-2008 at 04:00 AM.

  12. #12
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    Dan,
    You are welcome to come try out my large. We can go hit up RR. Its got a 110 stem on it, but bring your 90 along.

    - Jeff

  13. #13
    aka dan51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefe74
    Dan,
    You are welcome to come try out my large. We can go hit up RR. Its got a 110 stem on it, but bring your 90 along.

    - Jeff
    Awesome, thanks Jeff. I may take you up on that offer. You can then try out the PUSHed PIKE on the Stumpy. I'm having some issues with it though. Is your handlebar 25.4 or 31.8? My stem is 25.4.

    RR is going to be my gold standard for testing these bikes out. It's got all features In a trail I could imagine.

    -Dan

  14. #14
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    i think the frames are designed for longer stems, i know people ride short stems but that's their choice. try to match your frame size choice w/your existing stumpy wheelbase if you like the way your stumpy feels on steep fast dh. i usually like a smaller frame, but prolly coulda sized up, shoulda test rode a little more extensively.

    i had problems runnin a 2.35" nevegal (maybe my wheel wasn't super true), then went to a 2.25" cinder. the cinder worked good for me. when a buddy 1st got his i think he busted the chainstay due to tire rub, but i think the earlier rear swingarms were not as tough.

    don't know if i busted the rear or if it was a clear coat, but ibis took care of it right away. i did hear some funky noises when hitting that log near the top of braille. when ryan @ ibis took it apart one of the shock mounting bolts was bent, he said that was usual. their customer service was muy sick though, when i had a problem i just called, brought it down the next day and they swapped out the rear swingarm. plus they come apart super easy so maintenance is gravy.

    i wrapped the crap outta my driveside chainstay w/an old tube and the chain ate away the tube wrap closest to the bottom bracket area. also the area on the seat stay closest to the driveside dropout is susceptible to wear.

    if you can find a blur frame try that out too. gotta test ride a 5 spot too.

  15. #15
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    My stem is a 31.8. But I have a 85mm around here somewhere you could try.

    To answer your other questions:
    1) I know the exact spot where your chain was hitting, and it is fixable with a little rubber pad.
    2) On sizing up, I get what you are saying, but I like how the Mojo rides, and don't think going to an XL would be a good idea. Get the seat back and a touch more and get the bars in the right spot, and it will be more stable. But of course, I used to ride a Bontrager with a 130mm stem, so I'm used to being right over the front wheel. Also, the one you tried probably also had a flexy Float on it. The Pike will help it feel more secure. A 36 is awesome.
    3) I think the frames that have broken were manufacturing defects. If they are going to break, they will probably go quickly. The downside of carbon is that a pieces strength is so dependent on variations in the manufacturing process. Upside is that carbon does have much better fatigue properties, so it should be less likely to just let go after a time than Al. The Ibis CS is as good as everyone says. But it is a light weight bike, though mine made it down Free Lunch just fine.
    4) 2.35 Nev fits in the back no problem.

    Let me know when you want to hit up RR.

    - Jeff

    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Awesome, thanks Jeff. I may take you up on that offer. You can then try out the PUSHed PIKE on the Stumpy. I'm having some issues with it though. Is your handlebar 25.4 or 31.8? My stem is 25.4.

    RR is going to be my gold standard for testing these bikes out. It's got all features In a trail I could imagine.

    -Dan

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Anyone also ride the new Blur? That's the other bike on my hotlist. How did they compare.

    Thanks
    -Dan (hopeful Mojo owner to be)

    Dan- The thread on the AM forum isn't that helpful. So I thought I would chime in just to let you know that the Mojo and BLT have really different ride characteristics. This is a case where you really do need to ride both. The Mojo has much better small bump compliance and is more flickable on the trails. It's a climbing machine, but you know that if you have ridden it. The BLT surprised me in that it was a bit harsh on slow speed bumps, but it really shines at high speed. It's a very stable bike and very well balanced. I rode one at Downieville and can't imagine having more fun on 3rd Divide. I actually want to run a Mojo there as well to compare, but alas I can only spend so much on demo's I agree RR is a great testing ground.

  17. #17
    aka dan51
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    So I demo'd the XL yesterday. I put my own stem (90mm) and bar on it to get a more appropriate feel.
    Initially, the XL felt like the right size, but after a while it felt a little long. So I put a shorter 80mm stem on there and it still felt a little long. Interestingly, I made a bunch of measurements from seat to handle bar, seat to stem, and a bunch more and they are all identical to by current bike. So the bike should feel good, but it still felt long. I can't decide on size.... but from what everyone else is riding, the Large should be the right size. Guess I need to ride that size again.

    I figured out what all the noise was about too. It's the XT drive train with 3 rings, long der cage and tons of chain. I can bounce the bike around and hear the noise, but see that the chain doesn't even come close to hitting the frame. It's just the chain wacking the front der. So the noise no longer worries me, it will go away when I put my stuff on there.

    What does worry me now is the low BB height. Riding the Mojo is kind of like going from an SUV to a Honda Civic. When you get in the Honda, it feels like your butt is scraping the ground. That feeling isn't a problem, it's the constant pedal strikes, and bottoming out on logs that is. Replacing the large ring with a bash guard should help on the logs. Have you guys gotten over the low BB height, or does it still bug you?

    The bike also climbs way slower than my Stumpy, despite weighing 5-7lbs less. My girlfriend is a faster climber than me, and yesterday she kept asking if I stopped while climbing . Apparently she had been at the top waiting quite a bit longer than usual. I also felt a little more tired, and even bonked on a short ride the weekend before when I was demoing the large. I haven't bonked on over a year, and we were only about 8 easy miles into the ride.

    But that's the only area where the Stumpy prevails. The DW_Link is smoooooth. It's small bump compliance is impressive, and takes to jumps pretty good too.

    Still not sure if this bike is right for me....

  18. #18
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    Bb

    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    So I demo'd the XL yesterday. I put my own stem (90mm) and bar on it to get a more appropriate feel.
    Initially, the XL felt like the right size, but after a while it felt a little long. So I put a shorter 80mm stem on there and it still felt a little long. Interestingly, I made a bunch of measurements from seat to handle bar, seat to stem, and a bunch more and they are all identical to by current bike. So the bike should feel good, but it still felt long. I can't decide on size.... but from what everyone else is riding, the Large should be the right size. Guess I need to ride that size again.

    I figured out what all the noise was about too. It's the XT drive train with 3 rings, long der cage and tons of chain. I can bounce the bike around and hear the noise, but see that the chain doesn't even come close to hitting the frame. It's just the chain wacking the front der. So the noise no longer worries me, it will go away when I put my stuff on there.

    What does worry me now is the low BB height. Riding the Mojo is kind of like going from an SUV to a Honda Civic. When you get in the Honda, it feels like your butt is scraping the ground. That feeling isn't a problem, it's the constant pedal strikes, and bottoming out on logs that is. Replacing the large ring with a bash guard should help on the logs. Have you guys gotten over the low BB height, or does it still bug you?

    The bike also climbs way slower than my Stumpy, despite weighing 5-7lbs less. My girlfriend is a faster climber than me, and yesterday she kept asking if I stopped while climbing . Apparently she had been at the top waiting quite a bit longer than usual. I also felt a little more tired, and even bonked on a short ride the weekend before when I was demoing the large. I haven't bonked on over a year, and we were only about 8 easy miles into the ride.

    But that's the only area where the Stumpy prevails. The DW_Link is smoooooth. It's small bump compliance is impressive, and takes to jumps pretty good too.

    Still not sure if this bike is right for me....
    Yes, It can be a little irritating, especially where I ride. I think the lower BB helps give the Mojo it's special handling characteristics, though. I'm going to try a 27.5 up front when it's complete, it will help some.

    David

  19. #19
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    The bike also climbs way slower than my Stumpy, despite weighing 5-7lbs less

    I would tend to disagree with this statement. I sold my 07 carbon stumpy and bought the Mojo SL. I think the stumpy climbed a little bit better, but to say the Mojo is way slower seems a little unlikely. I have less pedal bob with the Mojo than I did with the stumpy. The Mojo may not be a bike for racing but it is a great trail bike that climbs great and can be ridden on all day epics.

  20. #20
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    what does it mean that the stumpjumper climbs better while the mojo has LESS bob?

  21. #21
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    The bike also climbs way slower than my Stumpy, despite weighing 5-7lbs less
    highjack:
    Was there an Inertia valve rear shock on the Stumpy ?

  22. #22
    aka dan51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk
    highjack:
    Was there an Inertia valve rear shock on the Stumpy ?
    It is the 2008 Pro with Brain shock.

    I've been doing lots of measurements (still trying to find the right size Mojo for me), and I think the reason it climbs better is due to saddle position in relation to the BB. The saddle is over 1" closer to the BB than on the Mojo, so my riding position is more over the BB. With the seat angle on the Mojo, I don't think I'll ever be able to get the seat that far forward, but I could get it close. This may also be the reason the XL felt too long, despite actually having a shorter top tube than the Stumpy. I kept feeling the need to slide forward on the seat.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by snailbike
    what does it mean that the stumpjumper climbs better while the mojo has LESS bob?
    I would say that it climbs a little better because I was 5 minutes faster on my local 10 mile 2000 ft elevation gain climb on the stumpy vs the Mojo SL. I have the Mojo SL (27 lbs) built a little heavier than the stumpy (25lbs) and run the fork at 120 vs 100 so that probably makes me a little slower on the climbs. The Mojo is so much more plush on the downhill though.

    I had the 07 carbon pro with the specialized shock and brain and it didn't work like it should of. I've owned epic's with the fox shock and brain and that combo was harsh on the downhill but it locked out for the climbs. The Specialized shock/brain always had considerable "bob" especially on steep climbs when I would get out of the saddle and climb. The shock was replaced numerous times and was finally told thats how the shock operates.

    The Mojo I feel has less "bob" on the climbs with the propedal on. I can climb out of the saddle and the rear end barely moves. It took me a little while to get used to the longer travel and different geometry, but I have less back pain riding the Mojo on 5 hour rides due to the more upright position.

  24. #24
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    It is the 2008 Pro with Brain shock
    I'm putting a shock with a lockout on the Moj for my climbing style.
    I've been doing lots of measurements (still trying to find the right size Mojo for me), and I think the reason it climbs better is due to saddle position in relation to the BB. The saddle is over 1" closer to the BB than on the Mojo, so my riding position is more over the BB.
    So you are saying the seat angle is steaper on the Stumpy or seattube is more upright. It must be like a 74. (Actually, I just checked website so it's 74.5 ! Also 9mm shorter rear chainstay than moj) But then the Stumpy has a longer wheelbase than moj because of the longer tt factored in. If that is correct on the websites, wb on Moj is over 3.5 cm shorter than Stumpy ? So the effective climbing advantage of Stumpy would really go away. (So maybe it's the lockout also. I ordered a RPL for my Rp23-Moj so I could get that last bit of climbing performace on smoother climbs. )
    Dw link bikes I think are biased towards a more centered seat position (i imagine rider position is less critical with the inertia valve shock) but really the suspension experts need to chime in on this one. Did you try moving seat forward on the rails ?
    I ride pretty far back as far as seat position on Moj works well for me with my body type ergonomic requirements.
    Stumpy at 74.5/120mm travel is even steeper than Top Fuel at 73.5/90mm, whew like a crit road bike.
    Last edited by ghawk; 07-28-2008 at 02:10 PM.

  25. #25
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    The Stumpy's seat angle isn't exactly 74.5. The seat tube does not pass through where the BB would be, it actually would pass in front of the BB. I think the real angle is 71, but they post an effective 74.5, but that doesn't say how high the seat is when that measurement is taken. For example, if the seat is really low, the angle may be 78, but if the seat is real high it may be 70 (I'm just making up these numbers). The Mojo has the seat post going right through the BB, so the angle will always be 73 regardless if seat height.

    On the XL I did have the seat moved fairly far forward, but there was easily 3/4" more I could have moved it. On the L I did not experiment enough. Hopefully that will happen this week.

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