Lopes Link- Why did you buy it?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Lopes Link- Why did you buy it?

    Here is a question for all us Ibis Mojo owners. It seems we are all scrambling to buy the new Lopez Link, Ibis can't keep em on the shelf. I live up in Calgary, AB Canada, bought a Mojo Beginning of the season in May. I weigh 170 pounds and right from the get go love the bike.... except for the flex from the rear. I tightened and tuned but with no luck so I thought I would just live with it...the ride made up for it. But the next thing you know A new link is brought out to stiffen things up.

    So I like everyone else eagerly waited and they keep selling out, My LBS might not even get em in. So today I looked on line and yes sold out but what got me was the $85.00 price. Which got me thinking.. I am buying it because it is too flexy and this will solve the problem. What I would like to know is why are YOU buying them. Is it becasue they are cool and we all like to pimp our bikes. Or is it because You too feel there is too much flex. Just curious guys.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYBO
    Here is a question for all us Ibis Mojo owners. It seems we are all scrambling to buy the new Lopez Link, Ibis can't keep em on the shelf. I live up in Calgary, AB Canada, bought a Mojo Beginning of the season in May. I weigh 170 pounds and right from the get go love the bike.... except for the flex from the rear. I tightened and tuned but with no luck so I thought I would just live with it...the ride made up for it. But the next thing you know A new link is brought out to stiffen things up.

    So I like everyone else eagerly waited and they keep selling out, My LBS might not even get em in. So today I looked on line and yes sold out but what got me was the $85.00 price. Which got me thinking.. I am buying it because it is too flexy and this will solve the problem. What I would like to know is why are YOU buying them. Is it becasue they are cool and we all like to pimp our bikes. Or is it because You too feel there is too much flex. Just curious guys.
    I got mine for the added stiffness, and to straighten out the rear. It did both of those things AND added a little bling. Money well spent IMO.

  3. #3
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    I don't like flexy when it's not part of the intended design (hence my main ride currently is an aluminum Slingshot Ripper) so the Lopes Link is a no-brainer for me.

  4. #4
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    I bought into the hype so I just had to have one, but I have always felt my SL flexed compared to my old bike.

  5. #5
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    Several reasons ...

    1: It centres the rear swing arm in the frame and prevents bearing drift.
    2: It stiffens up the rear end of the bike, which has some flex with the standard links.
    3: Technology ... in this case, it is a step forward for Ibis.
    4: It is a noticeable improvement in bike performance.
    5: It gives me something else to test.


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    It is inevitable ...

  6. #6
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    What I find interesting is all the people people who claimed that the Mojo wasn't flexy are also getting the upgraded link to somehow "improve" the bike...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYBO
    I weigh 170 pounds and right from the get go love the bike.... except for the flex from the rear. I tightened and tuned but with no luck so I thought I would just live with it...the ride made up for it. But the next thing you know A new link is brought out to stiffen things up.
    That's impossible, Derby said the Ibis was a very stiff bike.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    What I find interesting is all the people people who claimed that the Mojo wasn't flexy are also getting the upgraded link to somehow "improve" the bike...
    Interesting? It's downright hilarious!

    So many fan boys with a great deal of their self-worth tied up in a bike defending its flexiness (some even described it as a desirable feature!) and then, BLAM! have to have the link to fix the flex which they claimed didn't exist/didn't affect the ride.

    Especially funny are the "parking lot" tests where folks are pushing against the rear tire to show how much stiffer the bike is now (those same tests weren't valid before the link was introduced...).

    Funny reading:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=350657

  9. #9
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    I have not noticed flex in the rear of my Mojo since I got 6 months ago. But it handles so much better than the bike I had before it, it would be tough for me to notice. Mainly, I found too much flex from my Fox Float, which I'm replacing with a Thor thru axle.

    I read the threads on the Lopes Link and it sounded like it would stiffen things up for a minimal weight gain. Why not? I would've missed out on the first run had I not checked out the forum that morning when they became available. This place is valuable for us.

    I just did my first Lopes Link ride today, a big 4-hour 30 miler. However, I am unable to give any report on how it's changed my bike. We've had very dry weather here for months and the trails were super dusty, loose, rocky and tough to keep on your line on - and getting worse every week. While I installed the Link we had two record-setting rain days that dropped about 15% of our average annual rainfall. The result is incredible tacky trails that hold you like a magnet. So, I railed the trails today and had a blast - one of the best days this year. But, was there less flex or was it the massive change in trail conditions? For me, impossible to say right now.

    But for 15 to 20 extra grams and $85, why not?

  10. #10
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    What flex

    I like my Mojo and I don't think it is flexy. I notice tyre roll and wheel flex before any frame flex. I recently put a set of stans flow on and I could notice how much stiffer it was. The I put a conti diesel 2.5 on the front and back. Even though I can run really low pressure in such big tyres with notubes I just can't do it because the back just squirms around. If I add another 5 psi the problem goes away.

    As an after thought I may buy a Lopes Link, but not until the bearings in my current links are worn out and/or the $Aus gets stronger.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    What I find interesting is all the people people who claimed that the Mojo wasn't flexy are also getting the upgraded link to somehow "improve" the bike...
    There is always room for improvement. You're assuming that just because someone doesn't "feel" any flex, that none exists. And even if you "felt" flex, there's a lot going on and any sensation you get is not the result of just one specific part of your bike.....rather it's the sum of a few. Flex like "bob" is relative. If Ibis was not the innovative company that it is and responsive to customer feedback plus their own research, then they may never have come out with the Lopes link.

    I don't know what bike you have but I can bet you that it has been "improved" over time. I don't see the difference between changing out the links for any other "upgrade" you would make on your bike. I can name dozens of changes you could make on your bike, but before those changes are made, you're never going to know the difference. That doesn't make you wrong.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    That's impossible, Derby said the Ibis was a very stiff bike.
    If I did, I meant to say it was plenty stiff, and not very flexy as a couple people have exaggerated. Compared to other suspension bikes the Mojo has in fact always been very stiff laterally, but only average in swingarm torsion flex. Proof of it’s lateral stiffness is that a tire on a decent wheel must be less than a couple millimeters in unloaded clearance to rub the stays while riding.

    Although satisfied with the original Mojo, I got the Lopes Link because I've always wanted a unified upper link to see what a stiffer design would do for the handling. I had never owed a suspension bike with an extra stiff swingarm before.

    It’s rare to get the opportunity to try the exact same bike with a much stiffer suspension geometry. The big differences with the LL is there's more tire edge bite and feel of rear cornering traction limits when hard corning on hardpack or pavement. I’m not noticing so much handling difference on very rocky and loose trail, but there is more rear end directional feedback feel everywhere. And the wheel rate was changed. It’s harder to bottom travel now. To regain the cornering rear squat balance with the fork dive that I like, I had to soften compression damping 2 clicks of my Vanilla RC which normally makes a handling change with ½ click adjustment. There’s no pedaling efficiency difference that I can sense. Braking in a straight line is no different, but braking near the limits into rocky or eroded smoother corners has more rear bite and less skipping.

    Very, very well done Ibis!
    Last edited by derby; 12-03-2008 at 11:48 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYBO
    Here is a question for all us Ibis Mojo owners. It seems we are all scrambling to buy the new Lopez Link, Ibis can't keep em on the shelf. I live up in Calgary, AB Canada, bought a Mojo Beginning of the season in May. I weigh 170 pounds and right from the get go love the bike.... except for the flex from the rear. I tightened and tuned but with no luck so I thought I would just live with it...the ride made up for it. But the next thing you know A new link is brought out to stiffen things up.

    So I like everyone else eagerly waited and they keep selling out, My LBS might not even get em in. So today I looked on line and yes sold out but what got me was the $85.00 price. Which got me thinking.. I am buying it because it is too flexy and this will solve the problem. What I would like to know is why are YOU buying them. Is it becasue they are cool and we all like to pimp our bikes. Or is it because You too feel there is too much flex. Just curious guys.
    I ordered one because it is cool and I like to pimp out my bike...No really it's serious bike bling that also has some really solid performance benefits. That's the best of both worlds, how could you resist!!??

  14. #14
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    Good call BitterDave. Got to love a committed cynic. I have one coming even though I've not found flex to be an issue - at least my happiness meter says it isn't. However it is hard not to be influenced by Lopes design idea and I would love to feel an improvement in the ride. I still won't care if it is flexy or stiff so long as the ride is as good or better.

  15. #15
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    Doesn't every vendor of every type of part say with each new release "stiffer than previous year"? Have you ever seen an add for a new model year for Mavic wheels, Shimano cranks, Fox forks, etc, say "it's just as stiff as last year, so no real reason to get it"? I can say I've never noticed a stiffness difference between an 04 and 05 TALAS or different model Shimano cranks. I do notice a difference with the Lopes Link on the bike though.

  16. #16
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    so I could say I have a stiffie and not necessarily have that interpreted as a rude claim...
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  17. #17
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    Looks cool..... I cant feel any flex... but it matches all the other blue bits, so I got it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYBO
    Here is a question for all us Ibis Mojo owners. It seems we are all scrambling to buy the new Lopez Link, Ibis can't keep em on the shelf. I live up in Calgary, AB Canada, bought a Mojo Beginning of the season in May. I weigh 170 pounds and right from the get go love the bike.... except for the flex from the rear. I tightened and tuned but with no luck so I thought I would just live with it...the ride made up for it. But the next thing you know A new link is brought out to stiffen things up.

    So I like everyone else eagerly waited and they keep selling out, My LBS might not even get em in. So today I looked on line and yes sold out but what got me was the $85.00 price. Which got me thinking.. I am buying it because it is too flexy and this will solve the problem. What I would like to know is why are YOU buying them. Is it becasue they are cool and we all like to pimp our bikes. Or is it because You too feel there is too much flex. Just curious guys.
    Great question, simple answer.

    I too live in Calgary, Canada. I rode my Ibis on some of the best trails in the world, in the Alberta and British Columbia Rockies.
    I'm 200 pounds (well... ), 6.1 and fairly aggressive rider. I have the Mojo setup pretty burly, so it can take the abuse.

    It's a splendid ride, but a little bit flexy in the rear. I would do whatever necessary to improve this ride. I went from flimsy, race tires, to burly tires and it made a world of difference. I have a stiff front end, now I want a stiff back end.

    You'll know what I mean... when I point it down on that Cox Hill DH, and don't touch the brakes, I'd like it to go where I want.

    So.

    1. I got the Lopes link - sitting pretty on my coffee table for now.
    2. Just got off the phone with my LBS, and will get very soon the HOPE Pro II 10mm through axle conversion kit (for the rear - I got the 20mm through axle in the front).

    Now THAT will make my Aggro Mojo SL, an Extra Aggro Mojo.




    ...and I know which LBS you are talking about.... anyways, hate to talk about it on the msg boards, like other people. Send me a private msg and we can talk...
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  19. #19
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    My riding buddy has a Blur LT1, which he got a unified upper link for and he told me it made a big difference to his bike. He's ridden my bike and told me that it's very stiff laterally, more than his bike. I think that the Blur LT1 is well engineered bike, but if a unified upper link makes a difference, then I'm willing to try it.

    Further, I recently got a 20mm TA fork and the difference was amazing to me. So, I got a 10mm TA for the rear and the Lopes link will just further enhance my goals of making the bike a little beefier.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Several reasons ...

    1: It centres the rear swing arm in the frame and prevents bearing drift.
    2: It stiffens up the rear end of the bike, which has some flex with the standard links.
    3: Technology ... in this case, it is a step forward for Ibis.
    4: It is a noticeable improvement in bike performance.
    5: It gives me something else to test.


    Rainman.
    did anyone ever report this problem?

    mx

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikuteit
    I have not noticed flex in the rear of my Mojo since I got 6 months ago. But it handles so much better than the bike I had before it, it would be tough for me to notice. Mainly, I found too much flex from my Fox Float, which I'm replacing with a Thor thru axle.

    I read the threads on the Lopes Link and it sounded like it would stiffen things up for a minimal weight gain. Why not? I would've missed out on the first run had I not checked out the forum that morning when they became available. This place is valuable for us.

    I just did my first Lopes Link ride today, a big 4-hour 30 miler. However, I am unable to give any report on how it's changed my bike. We've had very dry weather here for months and the trails were super dusty, loose, rocky and tough to keep on your line on - and getting worse every week. While I installed the Link we had two record-setting rain days that dropped about 15% of our average annual rainfall. The result is incredible tacky trails that hold you like a magnet. So, I railed the trails today and had a blast - one of the best days this year. But, was there less flex or was it the massive change in trail conditions? For me, impossible to say right now.


    But for 15 to 20 extra grams and $85, why not?
    ....but i've spent $85 trying to lose 15 grams!

    mx

  22. #22
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    has anyone thought about drilling a couple lightening holes in this lopes link? i am thinking right through the part that says "lopes". i think i could lighten this part up with a few holes.

    mx

  23. #23
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BitterDave
    What I find interesting is all the people people who claimed that the Mojo wasn't flexy are also getting the upgraded link to somehow "improve" the bike...


    Interesting? It's downright hilarious!

    So many fan boys with a great deal of their self-worth tied up in a bike defending its flexiness (some even described it as a desirable feature!) and then, BLAM! have to have the link to fix the flex which they claimed didn't exist/didn't affect the ride.

    Especially funny are the "parking lot" tests where folks are pushing against the rear tire to show how much stiffer the bike is now (those same tests weren't valid before the link was introduced...).

    Funny reading:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=350657


    There's a trend and a message here, so maybe the continuously Ibisly outraged should stop . Most of us bought the Mojo thinking of a light but versatile ride. Looks good too. The more you ride it the more you trust it. But the fact is the frame is strong enough to handle more than the standard builds can. So we all start adding beef and riding harder; DH tires, heavy wheels, coil shocks, stiffer forks... The single upper Lopes Link is a no brainer. Give the bike what it wants.

    On a recent club ride I made the mistake of mentioning a squeak at the top of a nasty fire road climb. Guy nearby says "Maybe you should have got a Giant". Why does envy always come out as challenge? Didn't comment that he pushed his giant up the hill while I rode, or that being maybe 20 years younger he should be less cheeky. Leading out I did enjoy his arrival at the next rest point along some of the best singletrack. He was 2nd or 3rd rider in the train and more than a minute behind. "Guess I'll be sticking with the Ibis eh?"

    So on behalf of all Ibis owners, all you haters, skeptics and trouble makers can kiss our collective butt, cause that's all you gunna see, Lopes Link or not.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Doesn't every vendor of every type of part say with each new release "stiffer than previous year"? Have you ever seen an add for a new model year for Mavic wheels, Shimano cranks, Fox forks, etc, say "it's just as stiff as last year, so no real reason to get it"? I can say I've never noticed a stiffness difference between an 04 and 05 TALAS or different model Shimano cranks. I do notice a difference with the Lopes Link on the bike though.
    Whoa...slow down buddy.....that would make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much sense. You can't make logical, coherent, rational statements like that on this forum. What were you ever thinking.

    I for one would like to be the first person to say to all the manufacturers out there to please please stop making stiffer, stronger, more reliable parts. What were they thinking? Are they seriously trying to improve the sport?

  25. #25
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    Does anyone know if the 2009 Mojo's will come shipped with the Lopes Link?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYBO
    Does anyone know if the 2009 Mojo's will come shipped with the Lopes Link?
    Yep. I talked to Hans the other day. He said all the frames they're assembling now will be using the LL.
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  27. #27
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    Thanks Heart any idea if the pricing is the same as on the website for the 09's

  28. #28
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    I´m getting the Lopes-Link together with my new Mojo SL frame. First, I don´t have to pay extra (but I still have to wait until it becomes available again) and seconldy - why shouldn´t I? - since it´s gonna improve one of the alleged weak spots of this construction. I had never noticed any strong flex during the various test rides, but then again I´m quite a lightweight myself with 70kg... The Mojo works great for me, but it will probably help if you get it into rougher terrain.

    Greetings

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mx_599
    did anyone ever report this problem?

    mx
    Yes, there is a whole thread about it here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=442161

  30. #30

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    I personally have never had a problem with the flex on my Mojo. So I feel that I don't really need to replace my links with it. But I might do it when it comes time to replace the links anyway, because if it's an improvement, that's good enough for for me. I like the bike less 18 grms

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise
    There's a trend and a message here, so maybe the continuously Ibisly outraged should stop . Most of us bought the Mojo thinking of a light but versatile ride. Looks good too. The more you ride it the more you trust it. But the fact is the frame is strong enough to handle more than the standard builds can. So we all start adding beef and riding harder; DH tires, heavy wheels, coil shocks, stiffer forks... The single upper Lopes Link is a no brainer. Give the bike what it wants.

    ...

    So on behalf of all Ibis owners, all you haters, skeptics and trouble makers can kiss our collective butt, cause that's all you gunna see, Lopes Link or not.
    I might want to point out that it's the haters, skeptics, and trouble makes as a collective that are help improving the bike that you are riding. Nothing wrong = no improvement.

    I rode an Ibis, I noticed the flex, and I called it out. How does that make me a hater, skeptic, or trouble maker?

    Maybe those who are claiming that the Mojo is not flexy are confusing climbing efficiency with stiffness. That is not the case here. Sorry, but us "trouble makers" aren't going to ride on the bandwagon and wave pom poms.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    I might want to point out that it's the haters, skeptics, and trouble makes as a collective that are help improving the bike that you are riding. Nothing wrong = no improvement.

    I rode an Ibis, I noticed the flex, and I called it out. How does that make me a hater, skeptic, or trouble maker?

    Maybe those who are claiming that the Mojo is not flexy are confusing climbing efficiency with stiffness. That is not the case here. Sorry, but us "trouble makers" aren't going to ride on the bandwagon and wave pom poms.
    I'm currently building up a Mojo ( ) and expect that it won't be nearly as still as the Foes I have been riding the last 4 years.

    I expect that I will bike a LL.

    I expect the bike will ROCK!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    What I find interesting is all the people people who claimed that the Mojo wasn't flexy are also getting the upgraded link to somehow "improve" the bike...
    Same as the Turner guys that have been touting the bushing system as the best thing ever, and never complaining about it in any shape or form.

    Then along comes PUSH with a new bushing system and it's a 'must have' for your Turner.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Yes, there is a whole thread about it here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=442161
    ahhh, okay, i remember it now. so hans never responded to that thread.

    what was the general consensus fix? green loctite or similar? i know rainman used a different color, red i believe to match his lopes link, but what did you uses? just pushed in? did it ever come back out?

    mx

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BitterDave
    What I find interesting is all the people people who claimed that the Mojo wasn't flexy are also getting the upgraded link to somehow "improve" the bike...


    Interesting? It's downright hilarious!

    So many fan boys with a great deal of their self-worth tied up in a bike defending its flexiness (some even described it as a desirable feature!) and then, BLAM! have to have the link to fix the flex which they claimed didn't exist/didn't affect the ride.

    Especially funny are the "parking lot" tests where folks are pushing against the rear tire to show how much stiffer the bike is now (those same tests weren't valid before the link was introduced...).

    Funny reading:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=350657


    There's a trend and a message here, so maybe the continuously Ibisly outraged should stop . Most of us bought the Mojo thinking of a light but versatile ride. Looks good too. The more you ride it the more you trust it. But the fact is the frame is strong enough to handle more than the standard builds can. So we all start adding beef and riding harder; DH tires, heavy wheels, coil shocks, stiffer forks... The single upper Lopes Link is a no brainer. Give the bike what it wants.

    On a recent club ride I made the mistake of mentioning a squeak at the top of a nasty fire road climb. Guy nearby says "Maybe you should have got a Giant". Why does envy always come out as challenge? Didn't comment that he pushed his giant up the hill while I rode, or that being maybe 20 years younger he should be less cheeky. Leading out I did enjoy his arrival at the next rest point along some of the best singletrack. He was 2nd or 3rd rider in the train and more than a minute behind. "Guess I'll be sticking with the Ibis eh?"

    So on behalf of all Ibis owners, all you haters, skeptics and trouble makers can kiss our collective butt, cause that's all you gunna see, Lopes Link or not.
    Thanks for that. It makes no sense in a number of respects, but it does prove my point quite nicely.

  36. #36
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    we have the technology to make this link lighter.

    mx

  37. #37
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    heh, that you lurk here waiting to talk noise?
    kinda like most of your other posts?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mx_599
    ahhh, okay, i remember it now. so hans never responded to that thread.

    what was the general consensus fix? green loctite or similar? i know rainman used a different color, red i believe to match his lopes link, but what did you uses? just pushed in? did it ever come back out?

    mx
    I used a small amount of red loctite on mine. The bearings never came back out, but the alignment was still off. LL put the alignment to just about where it should be. It's not perfect, but very close.

  39. #39
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    I imagine the Empire DH rig with the solid forged frame would suit the flex offended among us. Probably comes with Pom Poms.

  40. #40
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    Uh.....

    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    And the wheel rate was changed. It’s harder to bottom travel now.
    Wait wait, what? The wheel rate was changed??? Uh, I just installed a LL, and the holding the old link up next to the new one, it looked like the bearing centers are the same distance apart. I did not mic it, but it sure is close.

    Please explain you claim here.

  41. #41
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    Waiting for my LL to arrive, but I can only imagine that it must have the same effect as going from QR to TA. Hardly ever did I think my Revelation was flexy or couldn't cope under hard braking or bombing through rough stuff...untill I got a TA fork!

    A world's difference! That doesn't make the Rev a bad fork or a flexy fork, there's just something stiffer out there.
    There's a feeling I get
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    And my spirit is crying for leaving

  42. #42
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    i replaced mine cause it was time to remove and check my bearings anyway. i put over 700 miles on this bike in the last 7 months, a modest guess. and i do lots of climbing and i never avoid water just cause it'll wear the bearings faster. so the LL came out so i ordered that and the lower arm too. found 2 tight bearings on the upper so the LL went in. I checked the lower control arm and one bearing fell out, found 2 tight bearings and a seized one.

    the LL did help a bit with flex so it's worth the extra money for a link I had to replace anyway.

    then again, i probably would have replaced the upper anyway cause i have OCD when it comes to my bike.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    I might want to point out that it's the haters, skeptics, and trouble makes as a collective that are help improving the bike that you are riding. Nothing wrong = no improvement.
    I thought it was Brian Lopes and the design team at Ibis that were responsible for the new link. Silly me. Guess I was swayed by the "Lopes" engraved on the link, and the fact that it comes from Ibis. Well kudos to you, Mr. HaterSkepticTroublemaker for getting this out to us. Wouldn't want to deny you due props. Keep up the good work.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  44. #44
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    no change in symmetry

    Has anyone else with asymmetric rear triangles put the lopes link on and had no difference? I put mine on last night and sure enough the non drive side seat stay is right where it was with the previous links.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefe74
    Wait wait, what? The wheel rate was changed??? Uh, I just installed a LL, and the holding the old link up next to the new one, it looked like the bearing centers are the same distance apart. I did not mic it, but it sure is close.

    Please explain you claim here.
    I conclude that before the LL there was more vertical flex, in addition to greater lateral and torsion flex, while compressing under my 200+ lbs weight. The only thing aligning the right side seat stay before the LL was the shock bolts, shock, and shock mounts. Landing 3 - 4 foot jumps that bottom my shock with no side loading has better directional feel in back now.

    The most immediately noticeable difference was I could sense that my weight was not compressing the rear as much in corners before I made any shock adjustments. Softening my compression damper adjustment 1 click was better, 3 clicks softer was too much compression in faster corners, 2 clicks was just about right to regained the prior cornering squat balance without changing the fork adjustments at all. Maybe the corner handling squat difference was due to only to side load deflection. But it seems slightly harder to bottom travel with the LL, so conclude there was deflection from vertical loading also. I'm running a coil shock which has more mid travel support than any air shock, so riders with air shocks may not notice this difference in mid travel compression feel.

    Anyhow the LL is all good.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I conclude that before the LL there was more vertical flex, in addition to greater lateral and torsion flex...
    Wow, up until about a month ago you repeatedly stated that the Mojo had little or no flex, and any flex it did have was a good thing.

    Now all of a sudden it has vertical, lateral and torsional flex, and making it go away is a good thing.

    Credibility -1

  47. #47
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    I had problems with the two-part links, drifting bearings allowed the swingarm to get pushed over to the right. I fixed that with red loctite and keying the bearing/plate...so the swingarm was centered again. Then I fitted the Lopes link and the swingarm is still nicely centered. Maybe you didn't fit the LL correctly?

    Did you check to see the LL is sitting on the frame exactly right?


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I had problems with the two-part links, drifting bearings allowed the swingarm to get pushed over to the right. I fixed that with red loctite and keying the bearing/plate...so the swingarm was centered again. Then I fitted the Lopes link and the swingarm is still nicely centered. Maybe you didn't fit the LL correctly?

    Did you check to see the LL is sitting on the frame exactly right?


    R.
    the tolerances are so close there is no way to botch it up. even with all of the bolts loose there is so little play that it makes no differance at all.

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I conclude that before the LL there was more vertical flex, in addition to greater lateral and torsion flex, while compressing under my 200+ lbs weight. The only thing aligning the right side seat stay before the LL was the shock bolts, shock, and shock mounts. Landing 3 - 4 foot jumps that bottom my shock with no side loading has better directional feel in back now.

    The most immediately noticeable difference was I could sense that my weight was not compressing the rear as much in corners before I made any shock adjustments. Softening my compression damper adjustment 1 click was better, 3 clicks softer was too much compression in faster corners, 2 clicks was just about right to regained the prior cornering squat balance without changing the fork adjustments at all. Maybe the corner handling squat difference was due to only to side load deflection. But it seems slightly harder to bottom travel with the LL, so conclude there was deflection from vertical loading also. I'm running a coil shock which has more mid travel support than any air shock, so riders with air shocks may not notice this difference in mid travel compression feel.

    Anyhow the LL is all good.
    Mein Gott, Mensch!

    I have to score Derby as my favorite poster. In fact, this might be the thread of 2008.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    I thought it was Brian Lopes and the design team at Ibis that were responsible for the new link. Silly me. Guess I was swayed by the "Lopes" engraved on the link, and the fact that it comes from Ibis. Well kudos to you, Mr. HaterSkepticTroublemaker for getting this out to us. Wouldn't want to deny you due props. Keep up the good work.
    Whoa, calm down. Don't get your pom poms ruffled up. Yes, I'm sure that the design team at Ibis was responsible for their one-piece link, that is sold by Ibis, for the Ibis Mojo.

    Do a search if you want, but there are plenty of others who were complaining about the flex before Lopes signed up with Ibis. Don't forget that Push Industries had a big part in designing the link. After my first ride on a Mojo I sketched out a design for a one-piece upper link (and a band-aid fix) that's very similar to the Ibis link. It's really not very complicated of a design and seemed pretty obvious to me. I have no idea if Ibis or Push had already come up with the design by then, and to be honest I don't really care. It saves be a lot of time and money by not machining it myself. I don't see where I'm claiming that I called up Ibis and told them my design.

    I'm not really sure what you're worked up about. Are we only supposed to say good things about the Mojo? The way I see it, Ibis listened to valid complaints about the Mojo and took the initiative to improve on it. What's wrong with that?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwirider
    Wow, up until about a month ago you repeatedly stated that the Mojo had little or no flex, and any flex it did have was a good thing.

    Now all of a sudden it has vertical, lateral and torsional flex, and making it go away is a good thing.

    Credibility -1
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Reading comprehension is my biggest challenge too!

    I’ve consistently disputed the few posters that imagined the Mojo was a flexy bike. They must not have much experience riding and flex testing various full suspension bikes.

    Again I’ll be consistent. Some bikes have more flex and a few have less than Mojo before the LL.

    Some minor flex like the Mojo had is a good thing for rider endurance and bike durability.

    Yes it is suddenly reduced in flex with the LL, bringing a small change in handling, and it is also a good thing!

  52. #52
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    Are you saying that the bike will be less durable with the LL?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwirider
    Are you saying that the bike will be less durable with the LL?
    I think he is saying that the bike will be fine either way.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave
    I'm not really sure what you're worked up about. Are we only supposed to say good things about the Mojo? The way I see it, Ibis listened to valid complaints about the Mojo and took the initiative to improve on it. What's wrong with that?
    Nothing's wrong with that. I was just giving you poo for endorsing haters. I'm down with skeptics and possibly even trouble makers, as long as they are motivated by good and not evil. Haters and evil trouble makers just suck.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Reading comprehension is my biggest challenge too!

    I’ve consistently disputed the few posters that imagined the Mojo was a flexy bike. They must not have much experience riding and flex testing various full suspension bikes.

    Again I’ll be consistent. Some bikes have more flex and a few have less than Mojo before the LL.

    Some minor flex like the Mojo had is a good thing for rider endurance and bike durability.

    Yes it is suddenly reduced in flex with the LL, bringing a small change in handling, and it is also a good thing!
    Derby,

    It's really getting sad at this point, the way in which you talk yourself around the Mojo's traits post to post. At least establish some overall consistency and stick with it.

    You're still getting laughs due to your subatomic particle theory that you made up to explain how the Mojo's flex is beneficial because it boosts the rider out of turns. There were many people around to witness you acknowledging and defending the flex in such situations as that, not to mention other threads where you were touting the Mojo and even recommending it as if you were a company spokesman, as a FR rig.

  56. #56
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    Jerk Chicken - Let me dumb it down for you:

    1. Bike was stiff before. (Enough so that very few noticed or minded any discernible flex.)
    2. Bike is stiffer now. (Just because it's stiffer doesn't mean it wasn't stiff to start with.)

    Stop being a hater. Your avatar says it all. Maybe if you changed your name to Love Chicken your whole attitude would improve.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

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    "H8terz", which I am not, sometimes might not be as unpleasant as the credibility-lacking "lovers", or "fanboys". Sometimes the haters are closer to reality than the fanboys. This is even more evident now that at least a couple of you are on the offensive against another company that has partnered recently in the DW-Link.

    If we're speaking of avatars, then I would have to mention that if you're a religious person, it's kind of shallow to thank "God" for something so inconsequential as a material item. At the least, that's what I learned.

  58. #58
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    i didn't notice a flex on the rear end of my mojo. But i am beginning to suspect that there might be a flex only i didn't notice it because I may not have paid much particular attention on the flex because mojo is a joy to ride. If there is no flex, why ibis comes up with the lopes link?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    "H8terz", which I am not, sometimes might not be as unpleasant as the credibility-lacking "lovers", or "fanboys". Sometimes the haters are closer to reality than the fanboys. This is even more evident now that at least a couple of you are on the offensive against another company that has partnered recently in the DW-Link.

    If we're speaking of avatars, then I would have to mention that if you're a religious person, it's kind of shallow to thank "God" for something so inconsequential as a material item. At the least, that's what I learned.
    Well then, I am relieved to hear that you are not a hater, despite your dialogue and prurilent avatar. No idea what you're talking about regarding being on the offensive against another new DW-Link company. I haven't seen anything of the sort in this forum, which as a rule tends to be very supportive of all rides and riders. While some people try to make themself or their ride seem better than it is by deriding the competition, the denizens of this forum don't seem to find that necessary because the ride speaks for itself. "Go test ride one and decide for yourself" is one of the most common bits of advice to be found here.

    For myself and my own experience, I quote @scarsellone, that the Mojo is "the best investment I made on a Bike & Myself." And so if that is not something worth thanking God for, then what is? If a Mojo has failed to bring you inner peace as well, then perhaps you should try more focused measures - perhaps yoga or buddhist meditations?
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  60. #60
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    i thank GOD for everything in my life especially my MOJO

  61. #61

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    Actually, one Ibis forum userhas been caught bashing Turner, using lies, and has notably stepped up an offensive since the surprise announcement of their partnership in the DW link.

    It was pretty close to the time Ellsworth's employees were telling lies about the construction of Turners, then using "?" and "I think" to cover themselves in their explanations of why EW bikes are better.

    Now if you're so secure in your love of the mojo, why do you argue about it over the internet?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    why do you argue about it over the internet?
    The internet has but one purpose - to give us a place to argue pointless drivel.

    I am off to Moab again this afternoon to try out my shiny new Lopes Link for the weekend. (ok it has another purpose as well, it also allows us to demonstrate how we are superior to all before us)

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Now if you're so secure in your love of the mojo, why do you argue about it over the internet?
    Because I am right. Duh.

    Love of the Mojo is not the argument. The fundamental problem is troublemongering trolls (including whomever you refer to that is bashing the new Turners). But you're not a hater, so not you, right?
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

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    Nope, I've even said the Mojo is a nice bike. The problem comes from the credibility of those on this forum blowing it up into something it's not. The proximity to the Ibex forum and the frequent mistaking of the two is kind of ironic as well. Long before I read up on the posts here, there was a Derby going around to the rest of the forums throwing what he had to say forward, much to the enjoyment of those who didn't fall for it.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Nope, I've even said the Mojo is a nice bike. The problem comes from the credibility of those on this forum blowing it up into something it's not. The proximity to the Ibex forum and the frequent mistaking of the two is kind of ironic as well. Long before I read up on the posts here, there was a Derby going around to the rest of the forums throwing what he had to say forward, much to the enjoyment of those who didn't fall for it.
    Kinda sour those grapes, hey?
    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    wizzler is a must. although then it consumes all your waking and sleeping thoughts until you can return.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Nope, I've even said the Mojo is a nice bike. The problem comes from the credibility of those on this forum blowing it up into something it's not. The proximity to the Ibex forum and the frequent mistaking of the two is kind of ironic as well. Long before I read up on the posts here, there was a Derby going around to the rest of the forums throwing what he had to say forward, much to the enjoyment of those who didn't fall for it.
    Dude, its just a freakin mountain bike, who gives a ****???

    I see your posts all over the place about this brand v this brand etc

    Get a freakin life already! They're just bicycles! Why don't you go and ride yours

    BTW I don't own a Turner or a Ibis but I think they're both nice bikes that I'd love to own, but holy crap either one will do the job and I could care less about all the politics around who makes what etc. You need to go out and get a girflriend or a role model or something. Let people believe what they want, how does it affect your life?

  67. #67

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    I enjoy bicycles...

    ...and turtles.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody
    Dude, its just a freakin mountain bike, who gives a ****???

    I see your posts all over the place about this brand v this brand etc

    Get a freakin life already! They're just bicycles! Why don't you go and ride yours

    BTW I don't own a Turner or a Ibis but I think they're both nice bikes that I'd love to own, but holy crap either one will do the job and I could care less about all the politics around who makes what etc. You need to go out and get a girflriend or a role model or something. Let people believe what they want, how does it affect your life?

    Hahahha, I like this guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khemical
    wizzler is a must. although then it consumes all your waking and sleeping thoughts until you can return.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I enjoy bicycles...

    ...and turtles.
    Is this you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Derby,

    It's really getting sad at this point, the way in which you talk yourself around the Mojo's traits post to post. At least establish some overall consistency and stick with it.

    You're still getting laughs due to your subatomic particle theory that you made up to explain how the Mojo's flex is beneficial because it boosts the rider out of turns. There were many people around to witness you acknowledging and defending the flex in such situations as that, not to mention other threads where you were touting the Mojo and even recommending it as if you were a company spokesman, as a FR rig.
    The "subatomic particle theory" was started by Scubapro as far as I can tell. I never said anything like that. Every material flexes differently. It is a well known by expert riders that carbon fiber flex has different more damped like flex qualities than metal of the same weight and flex. CF is not just about weight savings and increased durability, it subtly improves handling. The difference in flex of metals may be at the molecular even atomic properties level, he may have a point there about metals. The difference in carbon fiber to metal is likely at a much higher composite structure level I’d guess.

    Incorrect again. Flex does not boost you out of a turn (I haven’t heard that one before!) Maybe you are confused and don’t believe what I may have said: (In case you haven’t noticed, when entering and turning around a long corner with good speed the rear suspension compresses in the middle of the turn.) Rebound from that compressed rear suspension boosts acceleration out of a turn. Expert late braking technique can increase the rear compression mid corner not only increasing corner entry speed, also increasing exit speed. Kind of like pumping the backside of rolling bumps causes acceleration.

    Regarding flex in corners, some small amount of flex in bumpy corners helps maintain traction in combination with tire flex. Dirt race motorcycle swingarms are much flexier than road race motorcycles to maintain more bump compliant cornering traction on rougher off road surfaces. When a bike is leaned over, bumps can launch a wheel sideways away from the ground reducing tire traction and corner line. If you don’t believe this, try pumping your tires up to 60 psi and compare the traction in a loose and bumpy corner to tires with 30 psi. You will find the added flex of lower tire pressures difference gives better corner traction on the rough and loose surface. Now go to the pavement and try the same experiment at twice the speed, and you’ll find the higher pressure tires giving less flex have better traction. That’s simple proof that less flex is not always better for traction or handling. Beginner/intermediate riders may not be skilled enough to feel and utilize the difference or understand what expert riders can.

    I’ve consistently said the Mojo was not a flexy bike based upon comparing other bikes near this travel. I have always wanted it to have a unified upper link to make it stiffer, but it’s a minor improvement. The Mojo was already exceptionally advanced and well balanced for all but the hardest smooth downhill race use. With the Lope Link it is even less flexy, very few trail bikes are stiffer. It does make a subtle difference in feel and handling, more so on smoother surface. Unlike fork flex, stiff rear flex is not an important factor on very rough surface, look at the overwhelming popularity of the Nomad for rough riding, and it’s flexier in the rear than the Mojo ever was.

    Why would I not most highly recommend the DW-Link and Mojo? They are second to none for versatile trail bike performance in my experience from many decades of trail riding and testing many dozens of trail bikes.

    Have a joyful holiday season!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    Now that's funny!

  72. #72
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    the LL rocks

    my LBS had one in stock in red (believe it or not)...so I scored it last night, mounted it up, and rode a few great hours today...it certainly does stiffen up the rear.

  73. #73
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    Kiwi boy (i'm a Kiwi too)

    you are being argumentative.

  74. #74
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    $ 85.00 pretty steep price for a link. 50.00 to 60.00 would be more reasonable.

  75. #75
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    $103.00


    That is the price of a Blur upper link.
    milesW

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanfitz
    $ 85.00 pretty steep price for a link. 50.00 to 60.00 would be more reasonable.
    All you gotta do is buy a couple thousand, I'm sure they could then lower the price down to something more reasonable.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanfitz
    $ 85.00 pretty steep price for a link. 50.00 to 60.00 would be more reasonable.
    You realize that it's not just the link, right? $85 gets you the link and the four sealed bearings that are already press-fit into the link. How much do other manufacturers charge just for bearings?
    Last edited by mtb143; 12-08-2008 at 10:52 AM.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  78. #78
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    I think the price is fine.
    For my Specialized FSR bikes, I would pay $50+ for a full bearing kit. The LL comes with half the necessary suspension bearings. So $85 - $25 = $60.
    $25 for the bearings, $60 for the LL.

  79. #79
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    i got my LL because im a bike geek- also because it might save some elbow skin in some corner someday. my bike is built light- i do alot of climbing on it- so i cant really notice a difference with the new link. the bike was sick and stiff before and it still feels the same. i would not trade the ibis for any bike out there in its class.

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    I got one cos everyone else is getting them

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    You realize that it's not just the link, right? $85 gets you the link and the four sealed bearings that are already press-fit into the link. How much do other manufacturers charge just for bearings?
    yeah but the old linkage is 35.00 with bearing, so your paying another 50.00 for a bit more alluminum. just seems steep that is all

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanfitz
    yeah but the old linkage is 35.00 with bearing, so your paying another 50.00 for a bit more alluminum. just seems steep that is all
    I'm no engineer, but the construction/fabrication process is clearly a bit more complicated and involved for the LL than the old links. And for those who can afford the frame in the first place, but balk at the additional cost of the LL, well the old links still work just dandy for $50 savings. Bargain hunters can probably find lots of them cheap from those who've switched to the LL.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  83. #83

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    Bearing drift

    Quote Originally Posted by mx_599
    did anyone ever report this problem?

    mx
    I've had this problem. Not a huge problem as it can be rectified with the proper Loctite. I tried blue a couple of times, now I've upgraded to green. You may need to use some primer, first, to etch through the anodized surface. I did not learn about this until recently.

    But... I'm hopeful that the Lopes Link might take care of some of this.

  84. #84
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    Reputation: CarbonFiberFootprint's Avatar
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    My mojo is not even built yet and now I have to buy another part?!




    kidding... sort of

  85. #85
    Unpredictable
    Reputation: Ridnparadise's Avatar
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    CarbonFiberFootprint - you have to be kidding - sick name - love the spelling. The Mojo does not need a new part, just a new owner. Go out and feel the love. ps don't splatter and increase your footprint too much.

  86. #86
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    [QUOTE=mtb143] And for those who can afford the frame in the first place, but balk at the additional cost of the LL,

    your saying just because you can afford something, it is not o.k. to question the price. just go ahead and buy it because you can afford it? affordability is not question. Boy, sound like i am a pot stirrer. not the case when january comes i will be buying one anyway........you know to keep the economy going

  87. #87
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    I think it is very good value. I remember having to pay about 100 US for linkage plates for my Tracer (san bearings) about 4 years ago. Can't see what the fuss is about. Ibis's prices for after market mods is very reasonable

  88. #88
    Church of the Wheel
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    [QUOTE=firemanfitz]
    Quote Originally Posted by mtb143
    And for those who can afford the frame in the first place, but balk at the additional cost of the LL,

    your saying just because you can afford something, it is not o.k. to question the price. just go ahead and buy it because you can afford it? affordability is not question. Boy, sound like i am a pot stirrer. not the case when january comes i will be buying one anyway........you know to keep the economy going
    I'm saying that the price for the LL is reasonable, and if someone disagrees then there are even more affordable tight-wad options to replace the upper links when they wear out in a couple of years (get more of the original style links). Question the price all you want. I think it's fair, particularly in comparison to what some manufacturers charge for such bits.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYBO View Post
    Here is a question for all us Ibis Mojo owners. It seems we are all scrambling to buy the new Lopez Link.
    I am buying it because it is too flexy and this will solve the problem. What I would like to know is why are YOU buying them. Is it becasue they are cool and we all like to pimp our bikes. Or is it because You too feel there is too much flex. Just curious guys.
    I have a 2009 and in 2014 the links were noisy (have not taken good care I guess) so I bought them.
    Helped a lot but no more noises from the bearings; maybe most because same time I changed the RockShox Monarch RT3 shock that was leaking oil with a Manitou Swinger 4W Air (the original FOX RP23 lasted less than a year).
    The Manitou and my Magura Thor fork (not the OEM RochShox Revelation) seems to be able to hold to everything I can do.
    No flex and steering in the direction I point the handlebar.

    Here the shocks gets damaged:
    Lopes Link- Why did you buy it?-1.jpg
    it is harder to get fit than to stay fit.

    You have only one brain: protect it!

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