Ibis Mojo 29er: Will Be This Year's Interbike's Best of Show Winner- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Ibis Mojo 29er: Will Be This Year's Interbike's Best of Show Winner

    2010 Ibis Mojo 29er. I really like the way that sounds for some reason.
    Some key features will be: 1.25/1.5 IS headset with carbon cups, BB 30, 5 lb frame !!!! and 4" of travel.
    Hey, if Chris could do it right out of the gate at Pivot with the 429er, I Know Ibis can AND WILL next year.
    Pivot's 429 is great engineering but to do it as a carbon fiber Moj, that is off the charts engineering wise.
    http://www.pivotcycles.com/mach429_story.php

    Okay Photoshop guys, here is another opportunity.
    Last edited by ghawk; 01-31-2009 at 07:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Mojo0115
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    Is there actually a reasonable sized market for 29'er bikes?

  3. #3
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Is there actually a reasonable sized market for 29'er bikes?
    But then I guess can be said a bigger 7" or 8" Ibis bike that would be my hearts desire.

  4. #4
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    Smile

    how about a 4 inch travel 4.4 pound frame for 650b tyres to add to the list

  5. #5
    half tread will travel
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    hey i'm am all for a bigger wheel mojo...so my personal plan is to run the new neo-moto 2.1x 650b on my mojo sl when they become available which should be pretty soon...

    ibis will have to start from scratch to build a 29er...sorry but i think they will jump into the long travel market before going 29...it would be prudent for them to support brian lopes efforts to continue to win DH which just so happens to be DW's passion also...good luck...
    tread lightly...earth is our playground

  6. #6
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    I personally don't see the market having any room for 650b, I see it slowly dying out, but that's my opinion, I am sure if someone keeps buying it the 650b will stay around, I prefer to either ride my 26er or my 29er, I would love to see a 120mm 29er myself, I don't really care for monster suspension bikes.

    A 29er with 4 inches of suspension is a minimum IMHO, so a 650b would need to be at least 120/130 or more. Currently, no one except White Bros make a fork for 650b.

    The market share for 29er is much smaller than 26er, but it is still there, and it's a very vocal, and adamant crowd.

    I spoke with a lot of tire people at Interbike, and they are having a tough time selling much of any tire to the Euro and Asian tire HQ, economics is going to constrain a lot of decisions in the future.

    To each their own!

  7. #7
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    I would suggest that Ibis are not always chasing a large market: their CX bike might be an example of this but I might be underestimating how many CX crazies are out their happy to buy a an Ibis carbon version?

    As Ibis have suggested they plan to be building bikes that they are interested in, knowing that they will sell as many as they need, after all they are hand made.

    I hope Ibis do not build a 29er or a 650 but instead build at least a Nomad/Sanction/Firebird kind of bike..if not a IH 7 point beast or even a successor to the Sunday well before the Turner arrives..
    One of Ibis' stated aims with having Lopes on board is to prove the stength of carbon frames, as a big bike built tough would make perfect sense.
    If they build it to the same weight as the alloy bikes it would be indestructable..

    If they built it in a similar way to the Mojo SL it would be class leadingly light.
    A "Nomad" by Ibis would weigh less than the 5.5" bikes out there, what a weapon that would be. And so-on up the scale

  8. #8
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    No way gents! My vote's for a 700a wheeled carbon Scorcher fixie with a banana seat

  9. #9
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    but seriously ghawk... the bike you describe would move immediately to the top of my list...and probably lots of other people's too! ....120mm might be nice though...

  10. #10
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    ... and if we just ... Mojo...

    I'm completely happy with the current Ibis Mojo ... as a 650B ...

    I admit, I would like to see a small increase in the swing arm length, but I can live with the current one as it is.

    I've been running my Ibis test sled mostly with just the 650B front end and the standard 26" rear for a while now. As far as i'm concerned, it wouldn't worry me a great deal if Ibis never brought out another model. I already own the "Ultimate" bike...


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  11. #11
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    I am very happy with my 650b also with a trimmed Neo, but the pivot 429 I tried was pretty nice but, alum, heavy and not an Ibis. (and heavier hoops my, 650b weigh same as my 26ers except roll better.) [ Gram, how light have you seen 29er wheels built up ? I would imagine the larger circumference means you can use slightly less sidewall. I imagine it will come down over the next few years.]
    I am 5'9" so 650b is perfect for me but what about all the guys taller that 650b is actually even a little small for ?
    So, yes I see a market for all 3 tire sizes but yep the slooow economy and slooow consumers and sloow industry will constrain but may cause more efforts to go to marketing brand differentiation.
    Do I believe the small changes necessary to make bike's frames 650b OR 26er compatible will happen, absolutely. Do I believe it will be a standard in the industry, absolutely.
    Do I believe their will be a Ibis Mojo 29 yes, (and a big hit Moj 7+" this year also.)
    Do I really no anything. uhhhhhhh no.
    Last edited by ghawk; 02-01-2009 at 06:06 AM.

  12. #12
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    "Do I believe the small changes necessary to make bike's frames 650b OR 26er compatible will happen, absolutely. Do I believe it will be a standard in the industry, absolutely."

    hey ghawk, i agree...here is the list of 8 tires you may chose from in the 650b /584 ISO size...also check out this link for more info as it becomes available at Jeremy Quijano Blog...good luck... http://www.650bpalace.com

    Pacenti Neo Moto 2.3"
    Pacenti Neo Moto 2.1
    Pacenti Quasi Moto 2.0"

    Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.2"

    Kenda Nevegal 2.1"

    IRD/Panaracer Fire XC Pro 2.1"

    WTB Wolverine 2.2"

    Nokian Hakkapeliitta Stud 2.0"

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  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=pastajet]I personally don't see the market having any room for 650b, I see it slowly dying out, but that's my opinion, I am sure if someone keeps buying it the 650b will stay around, I prefer to either ride my 26er or my 29er, I would love to see a 120mm 29er myself, I don't really care for monster suspension bikes.

    A 29er with 4 inches of suspension is a minimum IMHO, so a 650b would need to be at least 120/130 or more. Currently, no one except White Bros make a fork for 650b.

    The market share for 29er is much smaller than 26er, but it is still there, and it's a very vocal, and adamant crowd.

    I spoke with a lot of tire people at Interbike, and they are having a tough time selling much of any tire to the Euro and Asian tire HQ, economics is going to constrain a lot of decisions in the future.

    To each their own![/QUOTE
    ]

    hey pj you may want to check out this list of 50 or so "convertible to 650b bikes" that has just been posted elsewhere on this forum...that's some market share opportunities...

    Azonic Revenge

    Bianchi SASS
    Bianchi Oetzi Carbon 2009 (only quasi-moto)

    BMC Team Elite 02, (2.1" and smaller)

    Cannondale Prophet (2007+ checked)
    Cannondale taurine
    Cannondale F3

    Carver 96er

    Gary Fisher Fat Possum
    Gary Fisher Tass.

    Gunnar Ruffian (older with horizontal dropouts)

    Haro Sonix LT
    Haro Xeon
    Haro Sonix VL120,(original Rear triangle) fits the Quasi Moto

    Ibex Atlas

    Ibis Mojo (2.1" and smaller recommended)

    K2 Factory
    K2 Apache 6.0

    Kona Unit (with sliders)
    KONA Coiler Series, (2007)
    Kona

    Marin Rift Zone
    Marin Wolf Ridge 05/06

    Mountain Cycle fury

    Novarra Method

    Surly 1x1, no confirmation but I'm sure the Pugsley would work too.

    Salsa Ala Carte

    Schwinn 01 Homegrown Ltd

    Scott Spark 30

    Sinister Ridge
    Sinister Splinter FS

    Specialized Enduro Elite (checked on 2007 model)
    Specialized Myka
    Specialized Carbon Epic, 2008
    Specialized S-Works Carbon HT

    Spooky Darkside

    Soul Cycles Titan
    Soul Cycles Icon
    Soul Cycles Hooligan G2

    Soma Groove (2.1" and smaller recommended)

    Santa Cruz Chameleon, horizontal dropouts (2.1" and smaller recommended)
    Santa Cruz Heckler
    Santa Cruz Bullet
    Santa Cruz BLT2

    Trek 930/950/970 1999 fit the QUASI-MOTO

    Venta! na El Ch amuco
    VooDoo Bokor (newer with sliders)
    VooDoo Wanga (newer with sliders)
    VooDoo Sobo (2.1" and smaller tire recommended)
    ***************
    tread lightly...earth is our playground

  14. #14
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    Ain't gunna happen this year. Probably a 7" or so bike this year anyway. I had a dream.
    Pivot 429, Ellsworth Evolve, Spider 29, Racer-X 29, but I think Ibis has a thing against 29ers like Yeti. (just kidding.)
    I love 650b don't get me wrong. Btw, I did the first trimmed Neo 2.3 on the back of a Moj early last year after discussing and observation from Kirk (he saw it on the back of my Moj.) I showed Kirk the 2/3 down trim I had done and he said there was still more than enough aggressive tread for the tire at 2.3. (Also, first to run them ghetto tubeless, done the right way...ieo the right tube for the right wheel application.)
    Derb was the first to run 650bs on a Moj but emphasizes this is experimental only. Take a look at his really great review of 650b Moj early last year way before anyone else ! )
    Where was i focus it's early....oh yea, So looking at the list above almost all small market bike companies have a 29er. But no full suspension full carbon 29er on the market. Is there one I am missing ?
    Ibis is giving up a great opportunity to make the best balanced 29er on the market.....at some point 2011 ?
    Old cool article for Colorado guys:
    http://www.mountainflyer.com/news.cfm?itemid=104
    Last edited by ghawk; 02-09-2009 at 06:58 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk
    5 lb frame !!!! and 4" of travel.
    That's too bad, there's already a flooded market in terms of XC 29ers. Would be amazing to see someone try to make a DW link 29er with 6" of travel and proper angles.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk
    I did the first trimmed Neo 2.3 on the back of a Moj early last year after discussing and observation from Kirk (he saw it on the back of my Moj.) I showed Kirk the 2/3 down trim I had done and he said there was still more than enough aggressive tread for the tire at 2.3.
    Old cool article for Colorado guys:
    http://www.mountainflyer.com/news.cfm?itemid=104
    hey ghawk, the neo 2.1 is said to have the same volume and casing that kirk uses for the 2.3 with lower tread heights...kinda factory trimmed down 2.3...thanks for sharing your idea...
    tread lightly...earth is our playground

  17. #17
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    why

    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Is there actually a reasonable sized market for 29'er bikes?
    what is that a good 29'er can do that a good 26'er can not do, other than satisfying a personal nebulous taste or particular fitting requirements (rhetorical comment, not a question). are there waves of non-sponcered/privateer Expert level 29'er XC, SuperD, or DH racers consistently beating 26'er Expert racers?

    I'd rather see a 6.3" or 7" Mojo, tuned for Fox DHX 5 or Cane Creek Double Barrel shocks offered...
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  18. #18
    Mojo0115
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut
    what is that a good 29'er can do that a good 26'er can not do, other than satisfying a personal nebulous taste or particular fitting requirements (rhetorical comment, not a question). are there waves of non-sponcered/privateer Expert level 29'er XC, SuperD, or DH racers consistently beating 26'er Expert racers?

    I'd rather see a 6.3" or 7" Mojo, tuned for Fox DHX 5 or Cane Creek Double Barrel shocks offered...
    I agree with everything you said.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tread Mark
    hey ghawk, the neo 2.1 is said to have the same volume and casing that kirk uses for the 2.3 with lower tread heights...kinda factory trimmed down 2.3...thanks for sharing your idea...
    Oh, that sounds better. Okay, now I'm excited about it.
    I guess now that I think about it since I 2/3's side trimed the 2 sets of outside knobs, it won't be far from that. Not to mention the fact that I am now running semi slick neo in back now. Really, the custom triming is not a problem but i'm quite lazy.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    That's too bad, there's already a flooded market in terms of XC 29ers. Would be amazing to see someone try to make a DW link 29er with 6" of travel and proper angles.
    That would be a challenging project to get right but I'd love to tackle it..
    dw★link
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  21. #21
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    My god, if i see smoke, the fire is somewere.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk
    Oh, that sounds better. Okay, now I'm excited about it.
    I guess now that I think about it since I 2/3's side trimed the 2 sets of outside knobs, it won't be far from that. Not to mention the fact that I am now running semi slick neo in back now. Really, the custom triming is not a problem but i'm quite lazy.
    I haven't had to trim so much off 650b Neo-motos. Only the top 1/4 of about 15 to 20 knobs that were irregularly tall in height.

    The Quazi-motos grip very well when fairly new, but loose much of the grip when the scalloped edge is worn off. They do roll even better and are about 150 gms lighter each at near 600 grms.

    For rockier riding I don't trust the Quazi-motos very much although I didn't puncture the one I used for about 3 months over a wide variety of trail conditions. The knobs do not flare to the side past the width of the casing such as the Neo-moto knobs, so there is no protection for the side casing against scrapes that can tear the Quazi-motos easier. Also the Quazi-motos knobs are spread much further apart so much that on pavement it is easy to see even when new that the casing is wearing against the ground between the knobs.

    For riders where sharp pointed rock durability is not a worry, the XC race Quazi-motos are fine and an advantage in weight and rolling resistance over the AM use durable and better gripping Neo-Motos.

    The soon coming 2.1 Neo-motos should bring an easy fit to the Mojo with a more durable tread than the Quazi-motos. Also there are a number other 650b tires out now including Kenda's 650b Nevegal in smaller than 2.3 sizes.

  23. #23
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    I hope they don't do it in carbon. There would be too many limitations...maybe Hans can chime in here but the swingarm is as beefy as it can be right now. A worthy competitor to the Sultan and 429 would be appreciated though and Aluminum is just fine. I realize carbon is almost a cornerstone here but I bet it will be hard to make the rear beefier given current carbon layup technology and being longer/bigger, it would have to be beefier. Just remember- I'm no expert (in case Hans says I'm an idiot). I'm a Holiday Inn kinda guy!

  24. #24
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    I haven't had to trim so much off 650b Neo-motos. Only the top 1/4 of about 15 to 20 knobs that were irregularly tall in height.
    My largest side knob height is optimal at 3-3.5mm vs 7mm of their original height. I speculate the difference in our to experiences with trim (as everybodys experience with trim is different ;D) a new version regular moj swingarm vs a rubber painted SL swingarm. But I just checked the the one on the bike vs a brand spanking new neo.
    Also, just wanted to raise 29er thread again.

  25. #25
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    Did you hear that..Hans and or Scot?????

    Quote Originally Posted by _dw
    That would be a challenging project to get right but I'd love to tackle it..

    Did you hear that..Hans and or Scot?????

  26. #26
    JustRide44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut
    what is that a good 29'er can do that a good 26'er can not do, other than satisfying a personal nebulous taste or particular fitting requirements (rhetorical comment, not a question). are there waves of non-sponcered/privateer Expert level 29'er XC, SuperD, or DH racers consistently beating 26'er Expert racers?

    I'd rather see a 6.3" or 7" Mojo, tuned for Fox DHX 5 or Cane Creek Double Barrel shocks offered...
    Just ride one for a bit & you'll answer your own question.

  27. #27
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    Good job! Ibis Mojo...

    Well...i'm going to have to stick my oar in here... again. I rode 29'ers for quite a long time, and was one of the riders who pushed the bigger wheeled concept hard. I did that because I consider more choices to be a 'Good Thing' in bicycles. Also, 29'er wheels tend to fit taller riders very well. Bigger wheels roll over stuff easily that can stop a little wheeled bike dead!

    Anyways......

    Then .................... I got an Ibis Mojo to test.

    This bike changed how I thought about bicycles. The Mojo is very versatile. It can be run as a 26"/26", as a 26"/650B, as a 650B/650B, and as a 650B/29'er...all with the same frame.

    Over the months, i've formed conclusions from riding the Mojo with various setups.

    1: The current Ibis Mojo is an outstandingly good frame.
    2: It can handle different setups easily, eg: trail, AM and some light downhill.
    3:The frame can also handle different size wheel setups well.
    4: There doesn't seem to be any limitations on what you can do on an Ibis Mojo, unless you are insane.
    5:There are a good selection of tires available now, including 650B for this frame.
    6: For a full carbon composite frame, they are very strong, a LOT stronger than you would think.
    7: Personally, I believe that 5" travel is enough for just about anything most riders will come up against, and generally, 5" is enough for the majority of riders who ride off road, without going kamakazi down steep long downhill courses.
    8: I would like to see Ibis refine the current frame instead of bringing out a completely new model of the Mojo. Whilst the current SL frame is *very* good, I think a wider swingarm wouldn't hurt, nor would a slightly beefier side brace on the swingarm.

    Apart from this, i'm very happy with the current edition of the Mojo, and the DW link is "The Bomb", imo.

    What I encourage riders to do who have a standard Ibis Mojo 26"/26" is to try a 650B front wheel on their frame. It makes one hell of a difference...


    Rainman.
    Last edited by Rainman; 04-19-2009 at 11:55 PM.
    It is inevitable ...

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    I'd love to see a from-the-ground-up Ibis FS 29er or maybe a 650B (prefer 29er though). I really liked the Mojo but sold it after I got my first 29er and am loving my FS 29ers (HTs- not so much) but if Ibis made a proper FS 29er (4"-5" travel) it would be one hot bike. It would take some major design work but Hans is a guy who could do it.

  29. #29
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    Id rather see them make a carbon dually...a mojo on steroids!

  30. #30
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    Die thread die :madman:

    Why did this old useless pontificating. ..thread come up again, with never 1 comment from anyone at Ibis. (tar baby ?)
    Too bad so many think the right wheel size for everyone is what they ride. Midget lil wheel bigots, big guy big wheel bigots, big lil wheel....well anyway:
    At 6' ++ tall a Ibis Mojo 29er would be perfect for many if it could be made as well balanced as the lil wheeled fellar.
    What % of the bike market is taller riders, like Tom, Scot, etc....?
    With as back logged as they are in projects and wanting to do a very small segment very, very well; don't expect it any time soon maybe......2012 and that will be a carbon hardtale. (with a xtr electronic build kit.)
    Let's see if we can actually see the cross bike some time next year.
    Probably see a full carbon big s epic 29er 2011.
    As far as the wonderful 275er option: (It will be many years before industry just makes the tiny adjustments for 650b wheel fitting and then there is the 29er marketing machine trying to crush it...)
    650b mojo is a pretty much awesomely optimal for guys in the ~~~ 5'6"-5'10" range imho. But with both front and back or you will slide out the rear just like you do on any 26er and maybe more. Most guys with good sense of balance after going 650b front eventually go and stay 650b front and back.
    Also, you should be able to kill threads that wind up pointless that you start.
    The video......okay....Hans Rey could never do that could he ?
    Last edited by ghawk; 05-03-2009 at 07:17 PM.

  31. #31
    More Torque
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I think a wider swingarm wouldn't hurt...
    I would not want a wider swingarm, if it decreased calf clearance. I have average size calfs, and they rub the swingarm on both sides with my XTR cranks. A pedal washer on each side helped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman

    What I encourage riders to do who have a standard Ibis Mojo 26"/26" is to try a 650B front wheel on their frame.
    I'd really like to try a 650B front wheel; I'm interested to see if there are any negative effects on the really steep climbs, due to the raised front end (assuming the handlebar is dropped an appropriate amount, etc.)

    -D

  32. #32
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    If we're putting up our Christmas wish lists:

    Personally, I would just love to see the current Mojo spec'd with a slightly slacker HA, maybe a few key points in the frame reinforced a bit and come with a custom tuned coil shock option. Nothing too major.

    Oh, and make that new silver frame color an option for the masses.

  33. #33
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    I would like to see a stiffer rear end on the Mojo. And yes, I do have the one-piece upper linkage.

  34. #34
    It's the axle
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    I've been looking for a place to post this. With all of this discussion on the bike, I feel like this might shine a light on the other part of the equation. I bet you have to watch it more than once.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K
    I've been looking for a place to post this. With all of this discussion on the bike, I feel like this might shine a light on the other part of the equation. I bet you have to watch it more than once.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o
    We had a young lad come in the shop yesterday and put us onto this vid. All i can say is wow!

    Watch it again and notice how lightly he puts the wheels back down, even jumping off the bridge the wheels delicately contact the ground

  36. #36
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    holy crap his bike was born and he grew off it

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam2051
    We had a young lad come in the shop yesterday and put us onto this vid. All i can say is wow!

    Watch it again and notice how lightly he puts the wheels back down, even jumping off the bridge the wheels delicately contact the ground

    It was that jump that had me thinking about this thread.

    I laugh every time I see the derailleur. And the backward wheelie.

  38. #38
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    Amazing skillz...

    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  39. #39
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    I second Rainman's 650B comment.

    Anyone not running a 650B on the front of their Mojo is MISSING THE BOAT. If anything it drastically improves the BB height, enough to reduce crank strikes. And then there's the handling performance, I'm not even going to go there. 26/26 riders need to experiance it for themselves.


    my $.02

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg K
    I've been looking for a place to post this. With all of this discussion on the bike, I feel like this might shine a light on the other part of the equation. I bet you have to watch it more than once.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19zFlPah-o
    Unreal!

    I would have had a hard time believing someone describing it.. Amazing!

  41. #41
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    I'm rolling on 650b's now. I'm going to like it more when I get some lighter tires, currently on the neo-motos 2.3, switching to Racing Ralphs.
    A bicycle will take you to fantastic places....if you let it.


    Ibis fan since '08 now rolling on the big wheeled Ripley.

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    Hans and Scot, any chance this thread has a shred of truth behind it? Or will we just have to wait for Interbike.

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    No we big wheel bigots are just trying to guage interest.
    Not a chance, they are behind the curve with all the stuff they are working on. Btw, guys please get the Cyclocross hakkalugi done. http://www.ibiscycles.com/image.php?...kalugi/&title= So I can race it next winter.
    Also, for short guys, the 650b's work really, really, really well.
    That said, I'm still amazed at how 5'~ guys think their wheel size is right for everyone.
    But Santa Cruz is stepping up to the plate with a carbon 29er VPP that will probably weigh in around 5 lbs. They fooled me with this one. I'm still amazed that with this forward thinking they did not have enough fore-thought to add tiny extra clearance to the rear swingarm of Blur Carbon for 650b. (Then have special shock setup order. They would make allot of money with that order option.)
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=518880
    http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/104bronson/?p=166
    If it is carbon, it will be the first dual suspension carbon 29er on market. Spec. Epic carbon 29er won't be out till 2011. Also, Felt may step up. (All pretty decent guessing.)

  44. #44
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    hey ghawk, i'm also waiting for the hakkalugi...but not every carbon frame or wheel size is created equal...
    tread lightly...earth is our playground

  45. #45
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    As far as I know, the first carbon dual suspension 29er in the world at 4.47 pounds in a larger (with most fs 29ers coming in about 6 pounds +) with complete bike build coming in at 23. Throw a set of Stans rims built up light and you could go under 22 pounds. (heck, if not for the accomedations required for g2 they could have gone even lighter for the frame.)
    http://www.cyclingdirt.org/videos/co...ull-suspension
    My current main rides are hardtale 29er and 275er Mojo.....I may have to make room in the stable....after the hakkalugi of course.

  46. #46
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    I'm still blown away by this whole 29'er debate thing going on. On some threads it just comes across as a bit desperate to try and justify something that is mediocre at best. I can kinda see the need if you're nutting up and running a single speed, rigid, but other than that I think you're limiting yourself and the bike by going with that wheelsize.

    Especially those of you who are height challenged and don't run an XL size frame due to front derailleur/tire clearance, etc... Personally, I don't want a mediocre frame design/tire size to dictate that I run 2.1inch tires or smaller so they won't rub on the inside of the front derailleur when in the granny gear. Of course the only way around that is to have an enormous wheelbase or just run a single speed. Lame.
    650B's are just adding to this waste of an argument IMO and if you look at the people who are enthusiastically behind it they are mostly single speeders who ride XC only. Basically, the same people who touted the 29'er thing a couple years back and now want to be different. Just check out Arsbars Blog as she is the poster child of the 650B movement and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    I'd personally like to see Ibis go the route zzsean mentioned with a 6-7inch travel carbon DW Link frame. Although it would be funny to see what sort of monstrosity of a swing arm would come about with trying to morf the Mojo into a 29'er to fit that tire size, front der. clearance and getting all that DW linkage in there. I think the current Mojo could be easily tweaked a bit into a really great longer travel AM bike, for lack of a better word that would just kill it.

    Just to clarify; I've given the 29'er it's day in court and you can go back through my posts the past two years to check out the three 29'ers I owned: Two Niner Air 9's and a Turner Sultan. No need to debate the 29'er vs 26'er vs 650B with me. You won't win and I don't really care. Try adding more suspension, learn to ride DH well and you'll end up with a lighter, stronger, more nimble and more capable 26in bike.

    Ibis doesn't need to be another 29'er sheep following a trend off a perpetual cliff.

    My two cents. Flame on.

  47. #47
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    Not sure I follow the small size tire front derailleur issue, please explain?

    Also the latest 29er's are starting to get more interesting, such as the new Sultan 120mm and the Niner WFO 140mm. I rode the Sultan and liked it, trying to get a WFO for a test later this summer.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastajet
    Not sure I follow the small size tire front derailleur issue, please explain?

    Also the latest 29er's are starting to get more interesting, such as the new Sultan 120mm and the Niner WFO 140mm. I rode the Sultan and liked it, trying to get a WFO for a test later this summer.
    In order not to have the bikes (29'ers) spec'd with a super long wheelbase, they have to try and fit a much larger tire into the same space as a 26 inch wheeled bike. The problem that I have run into with all three of my 29'ers, which were XL sized frames mind you, was that you had significant overlap of the rear tire and front derailleur cage. What happens is (at least on all three of my bikes) that if you're running a larger volume tire or a tire with any sort of a side knob to it, it hits the inside of the front derailleur.

    Just like up front to keep the wheelbase in check, 29'ers have to run super steep head tube angles. Sorry, but 71-73 degree HA's on full suspension bikes is just sketchy at best for the average rider, unless you're riding rolling, buff trails. On the smaller sized 29'ers this steep head angle coupled with the larger wheel can result in toe/tire overlap where if you turn the front wheel enough and your crankarms are level with the ground it may hit your foot on some bikes. Plus on the smaller sized 29'er frames you have such retarded geometry that it can put the handlebars 2-3inches or more above the height of the saddle. Picture 'recreational' rider on comfort bikes with 140mm stems with 20 degree rise sitting completely upright.

    If for some reason manufacturers have added to the existing wheelbase to solve this problem, good luck negotiating tight switchbacks. Those giant gyroscoping, heavy, weak wheels coupled with a long wheelbase would only be good on straight, rolling trails. Given my experience on some of the trails we have in Utah that are riddled with tight, steep switchbacks, they already felt like trying turn a semi around in a culdisac. Lame.

    Again, if you're into the whole single speed thing. Go for it. I think that is where the 29'er application is best applied.

    Edit: Take a look in the Twenty Niner page and just look at the geometry and set up of some of those bikes. Once you get into the Med/SM/XS frame sizes you start to see some wierd s#*t going on. My favorite is the crazy angled and bent seat tubes to get around the rear tire which don't allow for a front derailleur and the customer ends up with a seat angle to rival a slack freeride style bike. Second in line is the 4ft 10in guy paying a fortune for a custom 29'er with such a huge saddle to bar rise, that he has to stand up the entire time so as to get enough weight over the front tire to keep it from bouncing around on climbs. To me that says a frame builder is shoddy at best and someone not to trust as they should have steered the customer towards something more in tune with their body-type/size. Cool that you supported an independent builder. Lame that he took your cash and left you with junk.
    Last edited by slcrockymountainrider; 06-01-2009 at 09:00 AM.

  49. #49
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    I don't think that Ibis has any 29er planned, I was also thinking more towards a Freeride bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    In order not to have the bikes (29'ers) spec'd with a super long wheelbase, they have to try and fit a much larger tire into the same space as a 26 inch wheeled bike. The problem that I have run into with all three of my 29'ers, which were XL sized frames mind you, was that you had significant overlap of the rear tire and front derailleur cage. What happens is (at least on all three of my bikes) that if you're running a larger volume tire or a tire with any sort of a side knob to it, it hits the inside of the front derailleur.
    On my Moots Mooto-XZ it's not even close to the derailleur and I run up to 2.4 inch tire, no fitting or rubbing issues, perhaps an issue with an XL frame? I have mostly ridden medium 29er frames (18-19inch), never had any issues with large tires rubbing into anything?

    Just like up front to keep the wheelbase in check, 29'ers have to run super steep head tube angles. Sorry, but 71-73 degree HA's on full suspension bikes is just sketchy at best for the average rider, unless you're riding rolling, buff trails. On the smaller sized 29'ers this steep head angle coupled with the larger wheel can result in toe/tire overlap where if you turn the front wheel enough and your crankarms are level with the ground it may hit your foot on some bikes. Plus on the smaller sized 29'er frames you have such retarded geometry that it can put the handlebars 2-3inches or more above the height of the saddle. Picture 'recreational' rider on comfort bikes with 140mm stems with 20 degree rise sitting completely upright.
    Yes, my Moots has a steep 72 head angle, but I can deal with it. My handlebars are in there normal position which is a tad below my seat (same as my Mojo), also never had any issues with toe/tie overlap.

    If for some reason manufacturers have added to the existing wheelbase to solve this problem, good luck negotiating tight switchbacks. Those giant gyroscoping, heavy, weak wheels coupled with a long wheelbase would only be good on straight, rolling trails. Given my experience on some of the trails we have in Utah that are riddled with tight, steep switchbacks, they already felt like trying turn a semi around in a culdisac. Lame.

    Again, if you're into the whole single speed thing. Go for it. I think that is where the 29'er application is best applied.

    Edit: Take a look in the Twenty Niner page and just look at the geometry and set up of some of those bikes. Once you get into the Med/SM/XS frame sizes you start to see some wierd s#*t going on. My favorite is the crazy angled and bent seat tubes to get around the rear tire which don't allow for a front derailleur and the customer ends up with a seat angle to rival a slack freeride style bike. Second in line is the 4ft 10in guy paying a fortune for a custom 29'er with such a huge saddle to bar rise, that he has to stand up the entire time so as to get enough weight over the front tire to keep it from bouncing around on climbs. To me that says a frame builder is shoddy at best and someone not to trust as they should have steered the customer towards something more in tune with their body-type/size. Cool that you supported an independent builder. Lame that he took your cash and left you with junk.
    29ers just don't work for anyone that is smaller then say 5'5" or so.

    I ride tight switchbacks and rock gardens, and only wish a had a tad more front suspension then 100mm when it gets rough.

    There are design constraints with 29er's, that is a fact.

    This is my 29er on some local terrain, the end piece is sick tight trials stuff and the 29er does better then the Mojo (long wheel base might help?)

  50. #50
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    Maybe it's just me, but I'd still like to see a Tranny 29er. I know they say "it is not currently in the works" on their website, but I would be first in line for one of these when they decide to change their minds.

  51. #51
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    Putting two and two together. Don't you think that if there were inherent benefits to running a larger wheel the motocross community would have adopted it years ago? After all, we as mountain bikers are following on their heels with most of the technology we use and a lot of our component manufacturers are and were firstly, motocross manufacturers. Maybe because there are distinct disadvantages to the bigger wheel? Hmmm....

    Same thing goes with BMX. Try racing a standard 20in BMX bike against a 24in BMX cruiser and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    The facts are simply: 29'er wheels are weaker and to build them to any sort of durability their weight would rival that of the heavier DH specific wheels. 29'er wheels provide less traction. Yep, less traction. This whole desperate debate about a bigger contact area providing more traction is just that-desperation. A smaller diameter wheel increases the amount of pressure exerted on the ground per square inch. The higher the speed, the better a 26 inch wheel hooks up. Add rocks and the 29inch wheel is going to deflect and bounce off them a lot more than a 26 inch wheel.

    This 29'er thing is just as rediculous as the fixie/emo trend going on all over the country. Cracks me up when people get all excited at a 30lb 5inch travel 29'er-weighed with a small frame. I recall running a 6.5inch travel bike the past couple of years that weighed a pound more, was more 100% more durable, lighter to climb with and descended faster than any 29'er on the market simply because it they could corner faster and track straighter through rock gardens and rough stuff. To build a comperable/durable 29'er than either my Nomad or RFX the thing would be pushing the 36-38lb mark.

    If you want a 29'er try a bigger travel 'All Mountain' type bike. It will weigh the same and your ass won't be puckered on technical and steep terrain. Having said that, if you live in Kansas have at the 29'er. It won't make a bit of difference.

  52. #52
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    The Word from the Man

    Just came across this thread....(don't often visit the Ibis forum...sold mine a while back for a 29! I would be back on an Ibis if they made a 29er that was lighter than the Sultan)...

    AnywaysI asked Scot last Oct and this is the reply I got from him....

    "Nope, sorry. No 29er Mojo coming up..."

    There you go.....650b it is!

  53. #53
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    I hear that a 29er is not near the top of the to-do-list for Ibis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sumobob123
    I hear that a 29er is not near the top of the to-do-list for Ibis.
    It would not be at the top of my list either, cant say I blame them. Why ruin a good thing? I have a 29er and it serves its purpose. I also have a mojo and have never wished it had 29 inch wheels. Just because it can be done does not mean that it should.

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    Why would the creation of a 29er Mojo ruin the 26 Mojo? I dont get the logic....unless of course its your anxiety.......... that if they made a 29er version and you were tempted to demo the bike then there would be no going back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidsuma
    Why would the creation of a 29er Mojo ruin the 26 Mojo? I dont get the logic....unless of course its your anxiety.......... that if they made a 29er version and you were tempted to demo the bike then there would be no going back!

    It wouldn't, of course. It's nothing more than a philosophical issue with the company. There's no doubt in my mind that if they had a 26 and 29 mojo next year they would sell more 29ers, AND more bikes total.

    Whatever... they just need to remember that the "we know better' attitude is losing them customers.

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    I agree.....if DC can change the direction of a major company then why not....lets create a Mojo 29er movement.....Scot are you ready?!

  58. #58
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    I have to say, where I live there is a HUGE 29er movement, personally I think its being felt worldwide (I live in Australia) I have my Mojo SL on order and even now - Im still waiting for my SL- im thinking about buying another bike to accompany the Mojo in the garage, yes a 29er -

    Do I wish the mojo was a 29er? No, personally I dont think 29er and Dually need to go together, (My personal opinions are that 29 inch wheels are best suited to rigid hardtail due to the large bag size) If I had wanted a 29er Dually I would have gone with the Pivot 429 - its even got the DW link!

  59. #59
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    Hey JeffS,

    Ibis is a hybrid bike already with the ability to use 27.5 by 2.1 tires all the way around which is considered ideal by many...Rainman has posted often on the subject...
    tread lightly...earth is our playground

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    Liam, you hit the nail on the head. Keep the mojo a 26er.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tread Mark
    Hey JeffS,

    Ibis is a hybrid bike already with the ability to use 27.5 by 2.1 tires all the way around which is considered ideal by many...Rainman has posted often on the subject...

    The last thing i want to do is add a fourth tire size to my garage. I don't expect any suppport from Ibis owners. If you'd wanted a 29er, you wouldn't have bought the mojo.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffS
    The last thing i want to do is add a fourth tire size to my garage. I don't expect any suppport from Ibis owners. If you'd wanted a 29er, you wouldn't have bought the mojo.
    Hey JeffS, Correct o..I'm love my Ibis...
    tread lightly...earth is our playground

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I'm still blown away by this whole 29'er debate thing going on. On some threads it just comes across as a bit desperate to try and justify something that is mediocre at best. I can kinda see the need if you're nutting up and running a single speed, rigid, but other than that I think you're limiting yourself and the bike by going with that wheelsize.

    Especially those of you who are height challenged and don't run an XL size frame due to front derailleur/tire clearance, etc... Personally, I don't want a mediocre frame design/tire size to dictate that I run 2.1inch tires or smaller so they won't rub on the inside of the front derailleur when in the granny gear. Of course the only way around that is to have an enormous wheelbase or just run a single speed. Lame.
    650B's are just adding to this waste of an argument IMO and if you look at the people who are enthusiastically behind it they are mostly single speeders who ride XC only. Basically, the same people who touted the 29'er thing a couple years back and now want to be different. Just check out Arsbars Blog as she is the poster child of the 650B movement and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    I'd personally like to see Ibis go the route zzsean mentioned with a 6-7inch travel carbon DW Link frame. Although it would be funny to see what sort of monstrosity of a swing arm would come about with trying to morf the Mojo into a 29'er to fit that tire size, front der. clearance and getting all that DW linkage in there. I think the current Mojo could be easily tweaked a bit into a really great longer travel AM bike, for lack of a better word that would just kill it.

    Just to clarify; I've given the 29'er it's day in court and you can go back through my posts the past two years to check out the three 29'ers I owned: Two Niner Air 9's and a Turner Sultan. No need to debate the 29'er vs 26'er vs 650B with me. You won't win and I don't really care. Try adding more suspension, learn to ride DH well and you'll end up with a lighter, stronger, more nimble and more capable 26in bike.

    Ibis doesn't need to be another 29'er sheep following a trend off a perpetual cliff.

    My two cents. Flame on.
    a lot of misinformation packed into some of your posts in this thread. you're a little out of date on 29ers; the recent crop of forks w/ 29er-optimized offset (48 mm or so) have really changed the equation, and there are more and more 29ers w/ a HA of around 70 degrees . a HA of 70, with increased offset, means techy chunky descent performance better than a 26er w/ a 68 HA.

    i've done side-by-side comparisons of two identical single speed hardtails -- same tires, everything, but one is a 29er and one is a 26er, and there's no question that on loose rock climbs the 29er has the superior climbing traction.

    but by no means do i think 29er long travel FS is the way forward. 650 B perhaps, but not 29er. i have 2 29er bikes and 3 26er bikes...my last purchase was a 30.8 lb 160 mm / 160 mm 26er, and it performs very well.

    still, in the 100 - 130 mm travel range, the 29er FS is very viable. 32 spoke w/ stan's Flow makes a nice combo of rigidity and reasonable weight. many riders are using single speed hubs (Hope etc) with a 6 or 7 rear cogs; the increased triangulation really helps the wheel rigidity w/o adding weight.

    from a market needs perspective, ibis needs to a) come up w/ a long travel DW ibis that directly competes w/ the Firebird, Nomad mk 2, etc. b) revisit the market demand for a 29er tranny. I know many riders who wished the tranny was available in 29er.....

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    Pretty clear that there is much interest out there unless some people need to g a l considering I started this thread just to see how fast it would die. Hell, i wish it had died generally it's pretty useless most people are pretty closed minded except the more technical guys on mtbr.
    Moj rides really well as a 650b bike btw. Thanks to Derby for that one. Then many of all the rest of us followed later....oh yea, thanks Kirk !
    http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=135
    The need is not quite as important for me anymore with FULL carbon fs 29ers coming from Fishe fly 100 (< 5 lb frame!!)
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/suba...on-29-to-range
    and from Santa Cruz for 2010 (probably over 6lbs). <<now if they will steeply curve/angle and shorten the damn down tube for the long fs front forks so to get the head tube lower for us under 6' guys that like to sit stretched out and low in the small size frames.
    Now if they could come up with a tranny rear triangle to fit a niner and just get that done. But, it is probably not as much an attitude thing but just too busy is why they are not working on it. (if they have had so many request that they actually have to post on their website that they don't have one in the works then there must get allot of q about it.)
    Oh yea, and remember the market drivers hopefully will continue beyond the usofa. At least that is how it has worked with other "fads"....electricity, transistors, phone, computer, car, plane, motorcycle, bicycle, full suspension, dwlink, al's internet, mtbr, forums;....and that other fad the ....fat wheeled mountain bike
    Now if the ugly americans could only take credit for beer !
    http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=147
    Last edited by ghawk; 07-06-2009 at 04:05 AM.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk
    Pretty clear that there is much interest out there...
    (if they have had so many request that they actually have to post on their website that they don't have one in the works then there must get allot of q about it.)
    actually...

    I get the feeling that there is a lot of interest in an Ibis 29er. From the US of A. And that's it.

    From talking to our other European suppliers... Ithe feedback I get is that the 29er thing is mainly a US driven issue.(I said "mainly"... so please don't flame me for that one).

    There is some "moderate" interest in Australia about 29er's... but nothing major.

    Remember... the USA is a small part of the world market. (try not to be shocked) And the rest of the world... just isn't as interested in demanding a 29er from the Ibis guys. This website... despite the internet being an international forum... is mainly frequented by english (as a 1st language) speaking people. And most of those... are from the USA.

    And to clarify... I own three 29er's myself. And a Mojo...

    Elvis.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk
    2010 Ibis Mojo 29er. I really like the way that sounds for some reason.
    Some key features will be: 1.25/1.5 IS headset with carbon cups, BB 30, 5 lb frame !!!! and 4" of travel.
    Hey, if Chris could do it right out of the gate at Pivot with the 429er, I Know Ibis can AND WILL next year.
    Pivot's 429 is great engineering but to do it as a carbon fiber Moj, that is off the charts engineering wise.
    http://www.pivotcycles.com/mach429_story.php

    Okay Photoshop guys, here is another opportunity.

    Any new info released? I think I read somewhere "anything less that 120mm then it isn't worth it for us" but I see a lot of demand for a 4" bike.

  67. #67
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    Wow, alot of debate over 29ers. Ibis is making a FS carbon 29er with over 120mm travel. (Not another 4" travel 29er). Hopefully around 140mm to match the new Fox Talas 34mm tube 140mm travel fork. The new Ibis will be their most advanced frame they have produced to date. It will be worth the wait. Even if it only has 130mm like the Specialized I'm still running the new Fox 140mm Fork. As far as the 26" vs 29er debate just get one of each.

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    Make an Ibis 29er in a "small" frame and consider one sold!

    Quote Originally Posted by dustyman
    Wow, alot of debate over 29ers. Ibis is making a FS carbon 29er with over 120mm travel. (Not another 4" travel 29er). Hopefully around 140mm to match the new Fox Talas 34mm tube 140mm travel fork. The new Ibis will be their most advanced frame they have produced to date. It will be worth the wait. Even if it only has 130mm like the Specialized I'm still running the new Fox 140mm Fork. As far as the 26" vs 29er debate just get one of each.

  70. #70
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    My Mojo SL was my favorite bike until I rode an equally equipped SC Tallboy. Now I have both.

    Mojo SL weighs 22.6 lbs, Tallboy weighs 23.7 - no real weight weenie stuff on either, just upper end with Stans tubeless wheels.

    The Tallboy is simply faster on everything I ride, except long sustained technical climbing (the Mojo is Billy Goat champ in my book), of which I only do a few times a year. Bottom line is I can ride either any time I want and I currently choose to ride the Tallboy 95% of the time.

    I have been waiting for the "Mojo 29er" with baited breath because I feel the Mojo SL pedal bob is very well controlled (I do not even use the pro-pedal setting any more) and is a very plush ride. I am hoping for similar results with their new 29er.

    For those poo-pooing 29ers (like I used to do!) I think you need to take one out for 3-4 rides to get the hang of the faster/different momentum. The latest generation of 9'ers are pretty well handling bikes.

    It is interesting that the 29er forum has more active users and any given time on this board? There is probably a reason.

    The only down side I can see for a 29er is that the wheels are not quite as strong, but for my and XC riding/racing the 29er fits the bill. Locally around here the 29er movement is way more than just a movement... it's the real deal. Very few people I know are not considering going 29er, if they have not already.

    I hear the new Ibis 29er will be out by Interbike... I can't wait. If they even come close to what they did with the Mojo SL and HD, I will be on the wait list immediately
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  71. #71
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    The Tallboy is a XC bike with 100mm of travel. I assume your SL is setup as an XC bike also.
    My Mojo is setup with 150mm travel forks and Flow wheels so being more AM oriented, I am not sure about a 29r.. I am willing to demo some before I buy another bike.
    The 650b option sure seems like a nice AM choice though and a great way to upgrade a 26r to something in between...

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJackSlade View Post

    It is interesting that the 29er forum has more active users and any given time on this board? There is probably a reason.:
    Yes, the reason is because EVERY 29er rider regardless of brand will visit that "room". So why isn't there a "26er" room? There is. It's called "Everybody Else". Not really a valid point.....

    Not knocking the 29er rage. Just your implication of why the 29er thread is the most active.

  73. #73
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    Well said Cactus. I also have both bikes but I ride the TallBoy 100% of the time. I never thought I would love a bike so much. The Santa Cruz boys nailed it! When the Ibis 29er comes out I will buy one and I hope it is as fun to ride at the TB. This may sound funny but the only reason I may not get the Ibis Niner is if they fail to provide a water bottle placement I can reach while riding. I know that will make no sence to most of the Ibis die hards boys, but it is that important to me. Anyway, I still like my SL but I LOVE my TB!
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    Yes, the reason is because EVERY 29er rider regardless of brand will visit that "room". So why isn't there a "26er" room? There is. It's called "Everybody Else". Not really a valid point.....

    Not knocking the 29er rage. Just your implication of why the 29er thread is the most active.
    I can agree with your point somewhat... I guess I still consider (and I guess the MTBR site as well) that 29ers are still a "special/different" forum... but if it were just a 26er and 29er forum the 26ers would obviously have more traffic... for the time being
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  75. #75
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    I have an inside source who I consult for all answers about the new 29er:


  76. #76
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    29ers

    I wish the Mojo 29 would be an XC/trail bike with 120 mm of travel or less. I have a Mojo SL, but it has too much travel for my riding, and the climbing performance is somewhat compromised in order to achieve the really plush ride. Nothing wrong with that, just that the Mojo is not quite the right bike for my riding (Colorado Singletrack). Around here, about 50 percent of the riders one sees are on 29ers, both hardtails and FS. The 29ers carry speed a lot better over choppy ground. I have tested my riding partners Pivot 429, and besides the portly weight, the bike rides incredibly well. A light Ibis 29 DW 29er could be a fantastic bike for XC riding in the mountains.
    For long travel, DH and freeride type bikes, smaller wheels make sense, but for 100-120 mm travel XC bikes, lightweight carbon frames like the Tallboy and new Niner Jet RDO make a lot of sense.

  77. #77
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    Question to Hans and Ibis: will you have a 29er prototype with you at Interbike in two week's time?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossmaxx View Post
    Question to Hans and Ibis: will you have a 29er prototype with you at Interbike in two week's time?
    Pretty good chance.

    H

  79. #79
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    Boom!

    I'm totally impressed with you guys at Ibis. That is some amazing engineering you're pulling off.
    Note to self: 85% of FTP for 20 min.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Pretty good chance.
    Question to Hans at Ibis Cycles Internet Question Answering Facility: will you or will you not have a 36'er with you at Interbike in approximately 14 days?
    - -benja- -

  81. #81
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    I sincerely hope there is AT LEAST 120mm of travel, preferably 140mm or more. Bike shops are groaning under the weight of so-called XC 29ers that are only happy on fast, groomed trails. Who needs another one?

    A friend rode his 29er with me on Ontario's Porcupine Ridge, a highly technical area with extremely challenging trails. A 29er designed to handle more than powder-puff terrain would be welcome, and would fit the Ibis brand. If a Mojo has too much travel for you, you need a hard tail, not a 100mm 29er

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows View Post
    I wish the Mojo 29 would be an XC/trail bike with 120 mm of travel or less. I have a Mojo SL, but it has too much travel for my riding, and the climbing performance is somewhat compromised in order to achieve the really plush ride. Nothing wrong with that, just that the Mojo is not quite the right bike for my riding (Colorado Singletrack). Around here, about 50 percent of the riders one sees are on 29ers, both hardtails and FS. The 29ers carry speed a lot better over choppy ground.
    I think your spandex is too tight...

  83. #83
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    I'm counting the hours until the first photos and spec's are revealed....

    Hans: What about EuroBike? Will it be revealed there first?
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean View Post
    Is there actually a reasonable sized market for 29'er bikes?
    Interesting... this quote/response is for almost 2 years ago.... my how things change

    I see the 29er market just getting bigger all the time (excuse the pun)
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  85. #85
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    No

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnirider View Post
    I think your spandex is too tight...
    Need for personal attacks Gunni! If your preference is for 5"-6" travel there is nothing wrong with that, I own a Mojo SL and a Blur XC. I ride in Colorado, favoring big rides in the high mountains (CO trail, Crested Butte Classic, etc). The Mojo is a great bike, but it's climbing performance is compromised by the extra travel, even when set up XC style with a 130 mm fork. I prefer to ride the Blur because of this, but I do prefer the way the DW suspension operates. My preference would be for a lightweight carbon 29er, with DW and 100mm-120mm of travel designed for XC riding. I am tired of waiting for this bike (probably another year for Pivot to do a carbon 429). Perhaps the Niner RDO is the way to go...

    Raganwald: in some ways you are correct re the HT. But I prefer long rides over 4 hours, with tons of climbing and descending over often choppy singletrack. The HT is just too abusive on the body for me when rides get over 2.5 hours or so. Wish my back could handle the HT for long rides, there is just no way...

    I am not sure All Mountain 29ers make a lot of sense. It is really hard to get a lot of travel out of the 29" wheel format and keep the bike geometry reasonable, and frame strength and stiffness high, and no matter what one does, 29" wheels are never going to have the strength and reliability possible with a 26" wheel. The big advantage of 29ers is the energy savings over long distances on choppy surfaces-to my mind 29ers make the most sense for long, adventurous, XC rides, rather than for super tech AM riding.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows View Post
    I prefer long rides over 4 hours, with tons of climbing and descending over often choppy singletrack. The HT is just too abusive on the body for me when rides get over 2.5 hours or so. Wish my back could handle the HT for long rides, there is just no way...

    I am not sure All Mountain 29ers make a lot of sense. It is really hard to get a lot of travel out of the 29" wheel format and keep the bike geometry reasonable, and frame strength and stiffness high, and no matter what one does, 29" wheels are never going to have the strength and reliability possible with a 26" wheel. The big advantage of 29ers is the energy savings over long distances on choppy surfaces-to my mind 29ers make the most sense for long, adventurous, XC rides, rather than for super tech AM riding.
    I get the back issue, most people my age spend most of their riding time seated, and for my riding buddies, suspension seems to be a must for seated riding even if the rides are two hours or less. I stand nearly all the time, sitting only to get a short rest or for non-technical climbs, so I'm not wedded to the weight and mechanical complexity of a rear shock.

    I am not so down on AM and even DH 29ers like the Norco Shinobi. Wheels are getting stronger by the day, and for big riders the geometry is not a problem. The ease of rolling over small stuff pays off when hurtling down a fast trail and you want maximum control. An XC racer may want the lower rolling resistance of a smoother ride, while an AM or DH rider may enjoy the control!

  87. #87
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    you may...

    Quote Originally Posted by raganwald View Post
    I get the back issue, most people my age spend most of their riding time seated, and for my riding buddies, suspension seems to be a must for seated riding even if the rides are two hours or less. I stand nearly all the time, sitting only to get a short rest or for non-technical climbs, so I'm not wedded to the weight and mechanical complexity of a rear shock.

    I am not so down on AM and even DH 29ers like the Norco Shinobi. Wheels are getting stronger by the day, and for big riders the geometry is not a problem. The ease of rolling over small stuff pays off when hurtling down a fast trail and you want maximum control. An XC racer may want the lower rolling resistance of a smoother ride, while an AM or DH rider may enjoy the control!
    Be correct on the big wheel AM/Downhill thing, time will tell. I think it will be a long tome before we see a World Cup Downhill won on 29 inch wheels, but we shall see.

    Riding out of the saddle for a 5-6 hour ride with 6,000' of climbing is not an option for me, and neither would it be efficient. I have been at this for a long time, and know what works for me-a 100mm-120mm travel suspension bike, with very light weight, and large volume fast rolling XC tires at low pressure is what works for my riding. With the advent of FS 29ers with lightweight carbon construcion, I feel the added benefit of lower rolling resistance on choppy ground would help my efficiency. I wish a HT would work, as I would prefer the simplicity, and even lighter weight (Cannondale Flash Carbon 29) but it just will not work over the long haul. These are just my preferences, and what will work for me, of course what works for others will be totally different.

  88. #88
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    This thread is funny. I especially like the comments by slcrockymountainrider, who rails against 29ers, then 6 months later posts his build thread.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/20...in-582868.html

    --------------

    For me, and where I live, the manufacturers are building in too much travel to these bikes. But, given the number of AM/FR bikes I see around here I guess there's a market there, even if there isn't the terrain to justify their purchase.

  89. #89
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    Yeah...

    Jeff,

    Nice post. Around here (CO Front Range, Summit Cty Mountains and beyond) there is little terrain which warrants longer travel (outside of bike parks/ski areas), but many, many riders are on heavy LT bikes. I think it is just a fashion thing, more is better, etc.
    Now if I lived in Grand Junction, or Moab, things would be different and a little additional travel would be welcome, as the riding has less climbing, and more, larger, technical features.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows View Post
    Around here (CO Front Range, Summit Cty Mountains and beyond) there is little terrain which warrants longer travel (outside of bike parks/ski areas), but many, many riders are on heavy LT bikes. I think it is just a fashion thing, more is better, etc.
    That kind of thing is why some folks say the "M" in "AM" is for "Marketing," not "Mountain."

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanssc View Post
    Pretty good chance.

    H
    Hans. Aren't you the "tall guy" at Ibis?
    Just wondering if you could spill the approximate TT length on the largest sized.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddraewwg View Post
    Yes, the reason is because EVERY 29er rider regardless of brand will visit that "room". So why isn't there a "26er" room? There is. It's called "Everybody Else". Not really a valid point.....

    Not knocking the 29er rage. Just your implication of why the 29er thread is the most active.
    Merely a few years ago the Turner forum was by far the most active, so how does your logic dictate that?
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  93. #93
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    There are already a ton of XC type 29ers on the market (Jet RDO, Tallboy, Superfly, etc.). The next wave of 29ers is the AM crowd. There really isn't a carbon 120mm-140mm AM bike in the market. I think it is a good move for Ibis to be a leader in this market. I would also think that they may incorporate the limbo chip to reduce the travel for people that want it.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by raganwald View Post
    I sincerely hope there is AT LEAST 120mm of travel, preferably 140mm or more. Bike shops are groaning under the weight of so-called XC 29ers that are only happy on fast, groomed trails. Who needs another one?

    A friend rode his 29er with me on Ontario's Porcupine Ridge, a highly technical area with extremely challenging trails. A 29er designed to handle more than powder-puff terrain would be welcome, and would fit the Ibis brand. If a Mojo has too much travel for you, you need a hard tail, not a 100mm 29er
    Ditto what you said. I like my Ventana El Rey, and in fact my Yeti 575 has become an expensive paperweight since I got the El Rey, but I'm drooling over the thought of a 5" travel 29'er that weighs less than a Sherman tank.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    Hans. Aren't you the "tall guy" at Ibis?
    on behalf on Hans (& Ibis)... nope.

    Tall Tom is... well... very tall.

    Scot is next

    Then Hans.

    then Roxy.

    Elvis.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco Dog View Post
    There are already a ton of XC type 29ers on the market (Jet RDO, Tallboy, Superfly, etc.). The next wave of 29ers is the AM crowd. There really isn't a carbon 120mm-140mm AM bike in the market. I think it is a good move for Ibis to be a leader in this market. I would also think that they may incorporate the limbo chip to reduce the travel for people that want it.
    +1 on that

  97. #97
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    Ibis has just released info on the 120mm travel Ripley 29er: Ripley 29er | Bikes | Ibis Cycles US

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    sooooo very nice.

    Elvis.
    (who will have a medium thank you)

  99. #99
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    It just looks fantastic! Great work Ibis!

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    Love it! Can't wait to see it fully assembled with a stunning paint job.

  101. #101
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    I am excited to hear how this bike performs. Love that it has 120mm travel. Curious to head the geometry. Aesthetically… The Ripley looks like the offspring of the Yeti SB66/Devinci Wilson RC and Santa Cruz Tallboy. Not sure I like the new look. The unique and elegant lines of the Mojos have always stood out in a sea of very similar looking bikes. The Ripley…not so much. Perhaps it will grow on me or the paint job will highlights it’s attributes.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows View Post
    . I ride in Colorado, favoring big rides in the high mountains (CO trail, Crested Butte Classic, etc). Around here (CO Front Range, Summit Cty Mountains and beyond) there is little terrain which warrants longer travel but many, many riders are on heavy LT bikes. I think it is just a fashion thing, more is better, etc.
    This made me laugh.

  103. #103
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    Reading this thread is like a time machine on fast forward.
    So many points proven "wrong" and so many people changing their minds.
    Oh well, just how time works. Live and learn.

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    praise the lord, I started thread because I knew it would have legs and help the ball rolling when they had time after the long travel bike.
    By now, ....well.....it will still be a great bike for many loyalist with the best customer service in the business.
    If the pricing is better than the Tallboy (which is not so good anymore as they sell all they can make anyway and are following niner pricing with the Jet nine carbon rdo.) they may be on to something. (plus will be avail in size small that sc does not have in the TB also 20mm more travel.)
    Geo: ha seems to be very slightly steeper than TB which is 71 degrees with 100mm fork verses 71 degrees with 120mm on Ripley's with DW Eccentric links. So with the 120mm travel in the back will there be anything in carbon like it on the market yet ? Probably not till the Carbon Rip9 or beyond. Now we need more 140mm 29er forks.
    Oh yea, thanks guys for the usable water bottle mount.

    "Delivery TBD, but not in 2011" Ripley's believe it or not. Bring on Vegas !

    Oh yea, and bring on the whiners that the head tube is too steep. As when the Tallboy first came out. Well, they have sold like hot cakes and the bike handles wonderfully.

    Seriously, slackers.....just get a downhill 68 degree bike and ski lift shuttle and be done....after all, that and the cholesterol lowering medication will keep you "stable."

    Btw, you can't be best of the show if you are not actually AT THE SHOW !
    Last edited by ghawk; 09-17-2011 at 05:38 PM.

  105. #105
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    This will be a killer bike! Can't belive people still don't belive/understand that there are many exlellent 29ers on the market, and there will be many more. On this Eurobike allmost every German brand will show one or more 29ers.

    Big wheels are great! Don't listen to people who don't have ridden one. Test a good one your self!

    They are here to stay!


    e

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