HD with PUSH Vivid Team Issue Kit (Rock Shox Vivid Coil)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    HD with PUSH Vivid Team Issue Kit (Rock Shox Vivid Coil)

    Just have a couple minutes, but really wanted to share my excitement. A few months ago I was able to test ride the Rock Shox Vivid with PUSH's Team Issue Kit.
    This is the production version of that kit. I haven't had ANY time on it yet, but am STOKED to give it a try (hopefully Wednesday, assuming our Colorado weather cooperates). When I demo'd it I instantly fell in love with the way it rode. It seemed dramatically better even than the RT3, and for me at least, seemed worlds better than the stock RP23.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/subliminalshiver/5386734636/" title="Untitled by subliminalshiver1, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/5386734636_0400824cbe.jpg" width="500" height="374" alt="" /></a>

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  2. #2
    aka dan51
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    So jealous!
    I ordered mine 3+ months ago. After all the delays it sounds like they are getting ready to ship them this week.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug
    So jealous!
    I ordered mine 3+ months ago. After all the delays it sounds like they are getting ready to ship them this week.
    Mother effer! I missed a call from Darren just before posting this morning, but didn't realize until NOW.
    Should have brought the phone into the shower with me...

  4. #4
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    As far as I know these are ready for mass consumption! Sounds like there were some manufacturing issues with the shaft anodization or something. But, the little extra time allowed for further refinements. Gonna be worth the wait!
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  5. #5
    Leq
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    What's your body weight / coil stiffness?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leq
    What's your body weight / coil stiffness?
    About 190# all decked out with camelbak/clothes/helmet... and the coil is a 450# spring running minimal preload.
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  7. #7
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    First Ride Impression...buckle yer seatbelts.

    Wow. I have never ridden a shock like this. I was overwhelmingly impressed with how "dead" the rear suspension felt compared with my RP23. "Dead" is a major improvement, btw... at first I thought there might be something wrong. I was missing the lively springyness I was used to. Then it dawned on me.
    The rear suspension was actually working. It was damping the trail to such an effective degree that I stopped noticing bumps in the trail and was instead preoccupied with the lack of feeling. No monkey motion, no harmonic bouncing, no exaggerated movement. Just calm, even motion back to center. Unreal.
    Travel was bottomless feeling... I couldn't push this thing into a g-out or hard landing hard enough to get it to bottom out harshly. I imagine I had to have hit the bottom-out bumper (it's engineered as part of the plan..) but I honestly couldn't tell if I did. At that point in the ride I started to get almost abusive, really trying to max it out, blow through the travel. Nothing. It just kept eating bumps. Big or small, it made no difference. This is the most sensitive shock I have ever ridden, yet somehow, some magical somehow it feels like it bobs less than my RP23 and rides higher in the travel, yet just obliterates large bumps. I aimed for bigger and bigger obstacles. No problem. Then I was going faster, hitting things on purpose, begging for a buck, a kick, a solid bottom-out knock. Nothing. Just faster and faster. Asking for trouble. Nothing. Just plush, consistent, controlled travel.
    In the corners it felt like my brakes held better. No stutter, no skip, just rubber to dirt.
    Climbing.... I want to stress that not only did my bike climb pretty well for a coil-equipped bike, it climbed better than it did with my RP23. Again, it seemed to ride a little higher, suck up little hits better, all the while retaining the capacity to swallow a square-edged hit, welding my tires to the dirt. I've never had traction like this today.... and for the record it was about 45 degrees F ambient running a 2.2 Rubber Queen (yes, a rubber queen not a trail king which says something about how old the tire is....) on dry trails.
    In summary... I can honestly say that this is the most significant upgrade I have ever made to this bike. In one fell swoop I was able to improve climbing, descending, braking, and traction. It was like replacing my rear shock, brakes, and tires all at the same time.

    The only thing I can think to make it better might be to swap a Ti spring for a little weight savings.

    This was not the same shock I test rode back in September. This one is better. I called PUSH to let them know how well my ride went and Darren informed me that it will only get better. Seal break-in period or something. The mind reels. I didn't think it could get better. PUSH, again is full of surprises. If you don't think your bike could get better; even if everything is pretty good the way you have it, you might be surprised.
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  8. #8
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    Damn, I can't wait to get mine!

    Just got an email from Darren stating mine ships tomorrow. Yeehaw!

  9. #9
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    Sounds like PUSH has created another winner.

    Is the initial firm platform engineered into the HD more compliant now? I am curious if this shock improved small bump compliance in technical (rooty, rocky) climbing situations.

    If you don't mind sharing, what was the total cost? I may order an HD without shock and purchase this shock if it will not cost too much.

    Also, have you ridden an HD with the Fox RC4?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by disjointed
    Also, have you ridden an HD with the Fox RC4?
    You read my mind. Just going to ask if Subliminal had time on a RC4. Your description of how the Vivid feels is very similar to the RC4. Im just curious how much the increased performance is from having a Pushed shock vs. switching to a coil and experiencing the benefits of a coil. Not taking anything away from the advantages of Push but your feelings on your Vivid are similar to when I switched from an RP23 to an RC4. I do feel the extra weight of the coil when climbing and will definitely upgrade to a TI spring down the line.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by disjointed
    Sounds like PUSH has created another winner.
    YES!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by disjointed
    I am curious if this shock improved small bump compliance in technical (rooty, rocky) climbing situations.
    The bike is super-plush from the get go... I think I remember Darren talking about initially high leverage on the HD.... I don't know much technobable, but the bike will compress with about 2lbs on the saddle, it's very compliant early in the travel and was a traction MONSTER in the rocky, loose climb I did today (~1,600ft vert). Excellent small bump compliance. Better than my RP23, and also the RT3 (which I also demo'ed). Darren is he one to ask directly exactly how this all works, but there is multistage valving in the damper which allows for supple accommodation of both massive and tiny hits. Darren talks very fast and explains things in great detail and I'm not sure I'll get it right if I attempt a regurgitation here. As best I can tell, it works everywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by disjointed
    If you don't mind sharing, what was the total cost? I may order an HD without shock and purchase this shock if it will not cost too much. Also, have you ridden an HD with the Fox RC4?
    This goes for $585. That's for a brand new vivid, steel coil, Team Issue Kit installed and tuned specifically for your weight, style, and (of course) bike. It's a stupid bargain, IMHO... compared with the retail cost of a stock RP23 (about $390), and a custom tune $179...
    I haven't ridden the RC4.. so I can't compare it directly.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajaguy
    You read my mind. Just going to ask if Subliminal had time on a RC4. Your description of how the Vivid feels is very similar to the RC4. Im just curious how much the increased performance is from having a Pushed shock vs. switching to a coil and experiencing the benefits of a coil. Not taking anything away from the advantages of Push but your feelings on your Vivid are similar to when I switched from an RP23 to an RC4. I do feel the extra weight of the coil when climbing and will definitely upgrade to a TI spring down the line.
    Excellent point, and truthfully I don't have much time on other coils to make good comparisons between them. The most recent comparison I actually have is between the Vivid and the Vivid... As I mentioned before I demo'ed the Vivid Team Issue Kit back in September in its first iteration.. and it was good then. Really good. My initial impressions of that version, in retrospect, were very likely biased by just switching from air to coil shock.
    This new, production version is different. The "perfect damping" effect I tried to describe above wasn't quite there.. not exactly. I'm sure I would remember that much of it as my ride today was the first time I'd experienced this... sensation. This version really takes it to the next level, and has a total control of the travel that wasn't quite there before. I'm assuming that is the PUSH difference I'm feeling, the refined tuned, controlled movement of the shock throughout shock travel, and apparently at all shock speeds.
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  13. #13
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    So jealous!
    I ordered mine 3+ months ago. After all the delays it sounds like they are getting ready to ship them this week.
    Yeah, RockShox had some issues with the anodizing finish on the shock shafts and did the right thing IMO and stopped production to fix the problem before shipping them into the field. Bad news initially, but now we're all sorted and the production parts kit that we've received from them are dialed!
    Wow. I have never ridden a shock like this. I was overwhelmingly impressede......No monkey mobetter. PUSH, again is full of surprises. If you don't think your bike could get better; even if everything is pretty good the way you have it, you might be surprised.
    Wow...so stoked you like it so much. Please note that writing such glowing reviews in a forum won't earn you a refund on your purchase price!

    Damn, I can't wait to get mine!

    Just got an email from Darren stating mine ships tomorrow. Yeehaw!
    Thanks for your patience. We've been going like gangbusters getting final assembly completed on the back orders. You won't be disappointed!

    Is the initial firm platform engineered into the HD more compliant now?
    The HD has a very different leverage characteristic than the standard MOJO and is one that we're VERY fond of from a tuning standpoint. It compliments a coil really well.

    You read my mind. Just going to ask if Subliminal had time on a RC4. Your description of how the Vivid feels is very similar to the RC4. Im just curious how much the increased performance is from having a Pushed shock vs. switching to a coil and experiencing the benefits of a coil. Not taking anything away from the advantages of Push but your feelings on your Vivid are similar to when I switched from an RP23 to an RC4. I do feel the extra weight of the coil when climbing and will definitely upgrade to a TI spring down the line.
    The RC4 is a great shock for the application without question, but I do think that there are small advantages to the Vivid...obviously I'm biased. Having both Hi and Low, compression and rebound control externally of a tuning range that has been built for you and your application is a plus. Also, the HD has great mechanical bottoming control from the linkage rate so it doesn't require the additional bottoming control from the shock in the form of a boost valve. This is why you'll find that most riders run very little boost pressure and full volume to make the shock as linear in damping as possible. I could go on with more boring geek speak but I digress.

    Darren

  14. #14
    Levi Early
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    Well reading all of this posted on here is making me want to replace the rp23 I have on my hd. Since buying the bike I have been impressed, but if this upgrade does all of that I am sold on making what I thought was the best bike ive ever ridden even better!

  15. #15
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    Sounds pretty good. How much weight does it add compared to the RP23?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by peippo
    Sounds pretty good. How much weight does it add compared to the RP23?
    It actually weighs less. Darren machined the internals out of some weird metal he found buried beneath a Mayan pyramid. Actually makes the whole bike feel weightless. Side effects include an ominous feeling about December 2012 and the fact that the mothership is now locked onto my bike.

    Just kidding. I really don't know. I don't have a scale to check.. A hundred grams? A couple hundred? It is heavier... But I have no idea how much.
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  17. #17
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    My guess is the Push tuned Vivid will weigh about the same as a typical Vivid, give or take a few gs.

    Vivid = ~430g
    Steel spring = 400-600g (depending on length)
    Ti spring = 260-400g (depending on length)

    RP23 = ~208g

    So the Vivid is between over 3x heavier on the light end and about 5x heavier for the bigger steel springs. Granted, you can't actually get an RP23 to replace a 9.0x3.0, so comparing to the extreme heavy side is a bit pointless. Long story short, it's a 500-700g difference.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiker
    So the Vivid is between over 3x heavier on the light end ...
    ... when not considering the bike. Coil fork and shock does add 2 lbs., to be almost 1.07x heavier than an air suspended 29 lb bike.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    ... I could go on with more boring geek speak but I digress.

    Darren
    Please do!

    I've been meaning to call and ask about the shock leverage of the HD. And this has answered one of my big questions. Whether the Boost valve is needed beyond the air/gas assist of some shocks.


  20. #20
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    The official weights:

    FLOAT RP23: 325gr
    VIVID Team Issue w/450lb/in steel spring: 980
    VIVID Team Issue w/450lb/in ti coil: 735gr

    All weights are 8.5 x 2.5" with MOJO HD mount reducers installed top and bottom.

    Performance:

    FLOAT RP23: Very good
    VIVID Team Issue: More better-er-er

    Really, you could also argue that running 2.1 Schwalbe Rocket Ron tires would save 800gr's over a set of 2.4 Schwalbe Fat Alberts but really? Just sayin'

    I've been meaning to call and ask about the shock leverage of the HD. And this has answered one of my big questions. Whether the Boost valve is needed beyond the air/gas assist of some shocks.
    Derby, having worked with you in the past and understanding what you're looking for in a bike, the MOJO HD is a home run for you. Especially considering that you're already a fan of the brand. The change in direction that DW has taken with the later generation DW frames is awesome and a suspension tuners dream. We get good mechanical compliance at the beginning of the stroke matched with good mechanical bottoming control at the end. This means less compromise on our end with the shock tuning because we're getting those characteristics out of the frames linkage.

    Darren

  21. #21
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    hd 140

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    Yeah, RockShox had some issues with the anodizing finish on the shock shafts and did the right thing IMO and stopped production to fix the problem before shipping them into the field. Bad news initially, but now we're all sorted and the production parts kit that we've received from them are dialed!
    Wow...so stoked you like it so much. Please note that writing such glowing reviews in a forum won't earn you a refund on your purchase price!

    Thanks for your patience. We've been going like gangbusters getting final assembly completed on the back orders. You won't be disappointed!

    The HD has a very different leverage characteristic than the standard MOJO and is one that we're VERY fond of from a tuning standpoint. It compliments a coil really well.

    The RC4 is a great shock for the application without question, but I do think that there are small advantages to the Vivid...obviously I'm biased. Having both Hi and Low, compression and rebound control externally of a tuning range that has been built for you and your application is a plus. Also, the HD has great mechanical bottoming control from the linkage rate so it doesn't require the additional bottoming control from the shock in the form of a boost valve. This is why you'll find that most riders run very little boost pressure and full volume to make the shock as linear in damping as possible. I could go on with more boring geek speak but I digress.

    Darren
    Darren, what do you shock do you suggest for the HD 140?

  22. #22
    aka dan51
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    Just got my first ride in on the Vivid.
    It feels way better than the RP23. I can now get the rebound to the setting I want.
    Sharp edge hits now feel rounded, small chatter just disappears, landing jumps feels awesome too.
    This thing has a bunch of dials and settings, so I'll just ride it for a bit then start turning knobs.
    My Lyrik coil now feels harsh in comparison to the Vivid.

    My bike is a fat little piggy now, weighing just under 34lbs. The Vivid added ~1.5lbs to the bike.

  23. #23
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    Anyone know when Push will be getting the VIVID Team Issues back in stock?

    I emailed them and called but no one could give me an ETA, I want one of these so bad. Thanks for the review. How is it after the break-in period?

  24. #24
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    The official weights are listed by Darren in his 2nd post. Reading is fundamental

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajimenez
    I emailed them and called but no one could give me an ETA, I want one of these so bad. Thanks for the review. How is it after the break-in period?
    After breakin the shock is awesome. The harder you push the sock, the better it feels. Today I ripped through a rock garden and was impressed by how responsive it was.

  26. #26
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    What is the Leverage Ratio for MOJO HD?

    gonna buy a vivid shock and need to know the leverage so I can buy the right tune. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

    * 2.0-2.4 : 1 Leverage Ratio (Low Tune)
    * 2.3-2.8 : 1 Leverage Ratio (Mid Tune)
    * 2.7-3.1 : 1 Leverage Ratio (High Tune)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajimenez View Post
    gonna buy a vivid shock and need to know the leverage so I can buy the right tune. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

    * 2.0-2.4 : 1 Leverage Ratio (Low Tune)
    * 2.3-2.8 : 1 Leverage Ratio (Mid Tune)
    * 2.7-3.1 : 1 Leverage Ratio (High Tune)
    Those recommendations are for the mainstream suspension designs needing damping for pedaling efficiency or to hide kickback. DWL is extraordinary, damping is not a factor for pedaling quality. Choose damping purely for your handling feel preference. Most riders prefer low tune for the most smooth and plush action, some very hard riders prefer firmer for landing jumps, resisting g-outs, and more feedback overall.

    160/(25.4*2.5) = 2.52 (average rate), the HD is rising rate leverage, closer to 3.0 above sag closer to 2.0 near bottom travel.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    Those recommendations are for the mainstream suspension designs needing damping for pedaling efficiency or to hide kickback. DWL is extraordinary, damping is not a factor for pedaling quality. Choose damping purely for your handling feel preference. Most riders prefer low tune for the most smooth and plush action, some very hard riders prefer firmer for landing jumps, resisting g-outs, and more feedback overall.

    160/(25.4*2.5) = 2.52 (average rate), the HD is rising rate leverage, closer to 3.0 above sag closer to 2.0 near bottom travel.
    Thanks,

    Derby

  29. #29
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    Does anybody know if the Rock Shox Vivid with PUSH's Team Issue Kit is in stock? I can't find it on their web site and I have'nt got an answer to the mail I sent either.
    Thanks!

  30. #30
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    I have a Mojo HD and have been loving everything about it except the shock. I decided to go with the stock RP23 and have been sorely disappointed. I have to pump the shock up to 225 PSI or more to make it do anything. I am 225 lbs with gear and have been disappointed in the shock. I want to get a coil shock and have been looking at my different options.

    Great review about the Push'd Vivid shock. Do you think it was the Vivid that was great or was the fact that it was Push'd that made it great? I am looking at different options for a new shock for my HD. I was considering buying an old DHX or Van and getting it Push'd. Would any Push'd shock would have the same affect on the HD or was this especially good because it was a Vivid Push'd?

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