To Boost or not to Boost....- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    To Boost or not to Boost....

    Gonna order an LS. What are thoughts on waiting for the Boost version? I've ridden several Boost 29ers. Can't feel a difference. So not worried about that. But does it help "future" proof your bike/wheels? Plus can't hurt, just gives you the latest technology. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Since Ibis is now talking January for the boost optioned frame, and there is no additional clearance for a bigger tire in the rear, I just ordered the 142 version. My aluminum wheels have also held up just fine till now and with the stronger carbon hoops that'll be going on the new build, I think I'm OK there as well. Whether or not boost becomes the future, I don't really care, 142x12 and 15x100 will be plenty relevant going into the future IMO.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    If you're constantly chasing the latest technology, you're not riding for the right reasons.

    Buy what works for you today. Even a non-boosted Ibis is going to do well and hold its value fairly well.
    Ain't that the truth. If we chased every "next big thing" we'd never have time to ride

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack10 View Post
    Gonna order an LS. What are thoughts on waiting for the Boost version? I've ridden several Boost 29ers. Can't feel a difference. So not worried about that. But does it help "future" proof your bike/wheels? Plus can't hurt, just gives you the latest technology. Any thoughts?
    You just said it: can't feel the difference (how could you? you would have to be a machine to "feel" the difference). But yes, it can hurt, latest technology has nothing to do with "better", although it this case can't see how there can be any harm (or advantage) in the change.

  5. #5
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    1) Are you buying a complete bike from ground up?

    2) Do you have a bike you like to ride in the meantime?

    If the answer to both questions is "yes", I'd wait for the boost version. I think there's evidence that the industry is going that way, and I do expect it to be a real "standard" for 29ers at least.

    I don't think 27.5 is much of an improvement over 26", but compare resale value these days....

  6. #6
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    I was in the same boat and just ordered a non-boost LS. If I ordered a boost version I would not have been able to use my existing:

    XX1 crankset
    130mm Pike
    Roval carbon wheel set

    I was not willing to take a bath on selling/replacing the above parts for minimal, if any gain in performance. I figure I will bridge a potential wheel stiffness gap by building up a set of asymmetrical carbon wheels (more equal spoke length/tension).

  7. #7
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    ^^ You are misguided. The XX1 crankset has a removable spider so you can make it boost compatible for cheap in seconds. Furthermore, for single rings, the optimal chainline is 45ish mm or so of offset not the current 49mm Sram is using (only doing so for chainring clearance when using larger chainrings). So... to me that's a huge benefit of going with a Boost rear wheel and XX1 drivetrain without changing a thing (far less chainring wear - replace after 1000 miles instead of 3-500 miles like now).
    As for the Pike and wheels, they make adapters to use on Boost frames so no worry there either. In fact I won't be buying an HD3 until they get their act together on Boost!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  8. #8
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    I friend of mine just went through this debate and he went boost; but this early adoption has proven to be somewhat frustrating because there’s not a lot of boost compatible products to choose from at the moment (i.e. hubs, cranks, forks). I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a 142x12 frame right NOW, but ask me this question a year from now and I might give you a different answer.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    As for the Pike and wheels, they make adapters to use on Boost frames so no worry there either.
    Can you explain this please?

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

  10. #10
    fuggansonofahowa
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    Doesn't boost require a geometry change? Due to bottom bracket clearances?

    If so, this won't be an HD3 as we know it today.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawseman View Post
    Doesn't boost require a geometry change? Due to bottom bracket clearances?

    If so, this won't be an HD3 as we know it today.
    Ripley.....
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  12. #12
    J-Flo
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    Not to Boost.

    If it is available and won't cause you part compatibility problems, go for it. The minor benefit might be nice. If it is not available or will prevent you from swapping parts, then forget it. It isn't very important.

  13. #13
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    guess it boils down to, do I want a bike now or in a few months. I'm sure most of us have been in that impatient mode. How soon do I want an LS. I have an older bike and don't have parts to move over.I don't think Boost will feel any different on the LS with Ibis wheels which I will get. I don't think the chain wear issue is really on my mind. I do wonder how the first gen of all Boost will work together. I kind of like that this is really gen 3 Ripley. Not gen 1 Boost. i do laugh at myself that I'm in CO and I want this bike now. When I'll be more focused on skiing in a month anyway. Man I want this bike.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    Since Ibis is now talking January for the boost optioned frame, and there is no additional clearance for a bigger tire in the rear, I just ordered the 142 version.
    Where did you get the timetable? Anyone has any idea if the XL old geo will be back?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hack10 View Post
    i do laugh at myself that I'm in CO and I want this bike now. When I'll be more focused on skiing in a month anyway. Man I want this bike.
    Depends on what part of CO you are at. If you live on the western slope, you can be thinking about skiing and riding.
    Hell, I can get to Moab from Durango nearly as fast as a Front Ranger can get to Breckenridge on a Saturday morning in the winter. But I digress.

    So far, I am liking my new Ripley LS.
    Craig, Durango CO
    "Lighten up PAL" ... King Cage

  16. #16
    fuggansonofahowa
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    Ripley.....
    I stand corrected to original poster - Gman threw me off by mentioning HD3. Still, my comment applies for <insert bike name here>.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soihtu View Post
    Where did you get the timetable?
    My dealer called Ibis last week while I was in the shop and told him it would be about 2 months before the boost frame was available.
    9:Zero:7 Whiteout
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  18. #18
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    Relax....it's ONLY hype

    Honestly - 142x12 and 15mmTA is still very future-proof tech. I rode Boost148/20x110 extensively and for the life of me....cannot subjectively tell any significant improvement, warranting the massive price increase.

    Keep calm and ride what you "brung"....
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    As for the Pike and wheels, they make adapters to use on Boost frames so no worry there either.
    Not true.
    Hope makes adapters for THEIR FRONT hubs. FRONT only.
    No one makes adapters to convert rear 142 hubs to 148.
    There's a thread in the wheels section where someone has crafted his own spacer for his own use but that's it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    ^^ You are misguided. The XX1 crankset has a removable spider so you can make it boost compatible for cheap in seconds. Furthermore, for single rings, the optimal chainline is 45ish mm or so of offset not the current 49mm Sram is using (only doing so for chainring clearance when using larger chainrings). So... to me that's a huge benefit of going with a Boost rear wheel and XX1 drivetrain without changing a thing (far less chainring wear - replace after 1000 miles instead of 3-500 miles like now).
    As for the Pike and wheels, they make adapters to use on Boost frames so no worry there either. In fact I won't be buying an HD3 until they get their act together on Boost!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    You're misguided. What adapter moves the disc mount and cassette outboard by 3mm? That's where they're located on Boost hubs.
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  21. #21
    Kaj
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    Boost is generally there as a tire clearance thing. Any stiffness benefits are negated by frame design and wheel selection. If you go with 941's your 142 non boost bike is way stiffer than basically anyones boost bike. Since the Ripley is not changing tire clearance there's really no benefit to the boost.

    Except that you'll have fewer hub options with boost for the next 2 or 3 years. You won't have any issues with finding 142 hubs. For reference try finding 135 hubs today about 5 years after 142 came out. 135 hubs are everywhere to be found still... Maybe not on every complete wheelset, but even if you bought 941's you could convert the hub to 135...
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    You're misguided. What adapter moves the disc mount and cassette outboard by 3mm? That's where they're located on Boost hubs.
    Post#11 (you don't have to be a genius to shim your rotors peeps!):http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post12222503

    And the chainline (for single rings) is PERFECT with standard cranks and Boost spec so your WANT the cassette outward 3mm!!! CHECK THIS FACT PEEPS!!! Boost Chainline and 1x Boost Chainring Selection ? wolftoothcomponents.com

    You can bet there will be tons of aftermarket adapters by next spring and Hope has already done it for their hubs. SO... who's misguided now??? Boost isn't something to be afraid of or upset over - it's a win-win no matter what you currently run!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 11-10-2015 at 09:44 PM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndUser View Post
    Can you explain this please?

    Regards,

    EndUser
    If you use your Pike you won't need a new front wheel and you can just make your own rear adapter for your current rear wheel too: http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post12222503

    Have FUN!

    G MAN

    PS - Roval is working on their own Boost adapters and they will be available shortly (as are just about all the wheel/hub manufacturers).
    Last edited by Gman086; 11-10-2015 at 09:42 PM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    Post#11 (you don't have to be a genius to shim your rotors peeps!):http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post12222503

    You can bet there will be tons of aftermarket adapters by next spring and Hope has already done it for their hubs. SO... who's misguided now???

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Hope are only making adapters for the front.

  25. #25
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    Reviving an old thread here... Now that boost has been out for a while, I wonder if anyone has more to share in terms of direct before/after comparisons and whether there is a noticeable difference in ride feel.

    I'm building up a new wheelset for a boost Ripley and torn about whether to go with 148 rear hub or 142 + adapters. The advantage of sticking with 142 is that it would be compatible with a hardtail that I have, with a relatively simple re-dish. Not the sort of swap I'd want to make on a regular basis, but it's always nice to have backups & cross-compatibility in your stable if something breaks, etc. But if 148 is noticeably stiffer, that benefit might outweigh the PITA of swapping, redishing, etc.

    So... anyone had a chance to compare 142 & 148 back to back, and can share any real-world experience from the trail?

  26. #26
    Kaj
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Reviving an old thread here...

    So... anyone had a chance to compare 142 & 148 back to back, and can share any real-world experience from the trail?
    If you are using 941's or similarly stiff wheels it would be highly unlikely you could feel a difference based on the 148 vs 142 alone. The axle on boost is actually more flexy (148 is more flexy than 142), I'm guessing Ibis may have increased the rear triangle stiffness to compensate. The wheel stiffness caused by having less dish on boost with a a carbon rim would be negligible for a boost hub. For example a boost 148 bike with an alloy rim would be significantly more flexy than a non boost 142 bike with a carbon rim.

    I've ridden many 142 bikes that are far flexier than 135 QR bikes (think bikes with thin rear triangles and pivots at or near the rear axle in 142, vs a stiff 135 bike like the Mojo HD). So boost in and of itself does not improve stiffness. It's a combo of wheel stiffness, and engineering/materials of the rear triangle.

    On another note, I have 142 wheels on my boost with the DT adapters. I put the adapter in and the spacer for the rotor. But I haven't bother to re-dish the wheel yet. Still plenty of room on both sides.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  27. #27
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    "The axle on boost is actually more flexy (148 is more flexy than 142),..."

    That difference is so negligible that it is not valid not claim it as a difference.

    "The wheel stiffness caused by having less dish on boost with a a carbon rim would be negligible for a boost hub. For example a boost 148 bike with an alloy rim would be significantly more flexy than a non boost 142 bike with a carbon rim."

    And this sounds like speculation and over generalization. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but he was looking for experience with direct comparisons back to back. I don't have that experience, but other people have commented elsewhere that they do notice a difference. I find that hard to believe, but maybe it's true. The variables you mention are factors, as are rider weight, riding style, rim width and design, spoke count, tires, etc. You would really need all of those things be identical for a fair comparison. And if it is stiffer, does that make for a truly better ride?

    budgie - I don't think sticking with 142 so you can swap with the hardtail with re-dish is a great idea. I'd just do it right and go with 148 because most likely, whatever the next bike is, it will have 148.

  28. #28
    Kaj
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizango View Post
    "
    And this sounds like speculation and over generalization. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but he was looking for experience with direct comparisons back to back.
    I guess I didn't say this directly. I have ridden both 142 & 148 on at least a dozen different bikes, and even the exact same bike with both (HD3 and a couple others).

    I find to me the difference is more in the wheel than the frame. If the wheel is stiffer the bike will be stiffer. if the wheel is the same the bike feels about the same. If the wheel is more flexy the bike is more flexy whether it's boost or not.

    On more thing on swapping wheels. The dish you could figure out, may just 1.5 mm in the middle, vs 3 mm and it will fit both bikes. The DT Hub axle spacer just takes a second to swap back and forth, literally a second. But the rotor spacer would be more of a pain. Not only would you need to add/remove the rotor spacer when swap, you may need to slightly adjust brakes. I guess if you had a nice small power drill to do the swap it wouldn't be that bad.
    Kona Wo for Fat Biking, Ibis HD3 for Trail Shredding, Merckx Road bike for collecting dust

  29. #29
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    I smell a new axle standard on the horizon......I'll never get this house paid off.

  30. #30
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    Thanks for clarifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaj View Post
    I guess I didn't say this directly. I have ridden both 142 & 148 on at least a dozen different bikes, and even the exact same bike with both (HD3 and a couple others).

    I find to me the difference is more in the wheel than the frame. If the wheel is stiffer the bike will be stiffer. if the wheel is the same the bike feels about the same. If the wheel is more flexy the bike is more flexy whether it's boost or not.

    On more thing on swapping wheels. The dish you could figure out, may just 1.5 mm in the middle, vs 3 mm and it will fit both bikes. The DT Hub axle spacer just takes a second to swap back and forth, literally a second. But the rotor spacer would be more of a pain. Not only would you need to add/remove the rotor spacer when swap, you may need to slightly adjust brakes. I guess if you had a nice small power drill to do the swap it wouldn't be that bad.

  31. #31
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    Thanks for the replies everyone. These carbon rims build up so stiff I have a hard time imagining I'd find myself wanting more, even IF the 142/148 difference were tangible. I'm still not convinced this whole boost thing wasn't a solution in search of a problem. But then again; if you can go to 11, why not?Bizango you make a good point about future proofing, and Kaj that's great info about not having to redish.

  32. #32
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    The commonly stated benefit to Boost spacing is the greater spoke angle yielding a stiffer wheel, but if you look at the frame side of things, it has freed up one of the design constraints so that we now have bikes with shorter stays and more clearance, giving us bikes like the Mojo3 and others, and I'm digging that. Do I dig that fact that I now have bikes in the garage that can't share wheels? No, but in the 30 years I've been drooling over new bikes and gear in magazines and online, that steady evolution has been constant, and frankly, pretty fun to watch. I think I might be bored with the sport if we were still debating the pros and cons of different steel tube sets and lugged construction vs fillet brazed. Some of the changes are big (nobody talks about the introduction of index shifting anymore...that use to be debated) and some are small (purple is coming back!), and some are missteps (RapidRise), but ultimately the trend moves towards bikes that are better suited to what we use them for, which in itself is rapidly evolving. Most tech never really goes away. I can still go buy a 5spd thread on freewheel if I really want one, but as much as I have loved (and hated...I'm talking to you Trek Y bike) the bikes that I have ridden over the years, do I really want to roll those out for my next ride? Rarely, unless it's a ride down memory lane.

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