Mary XC, Not so good- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    Mary XC, Not so good

    I am a firm believer of recognizing great products as well as bad ones. I've owned a Mary XC for almost 8 months now, and until now I had nothing but good things to say about it, even when some minor issues took place. For example, first week with my new mary I slid off a rock and bent my back wheel. Hey... it happens right? that's what mountain biking is all about. So, I go and get a pair of Delgado rims with better spokes. A week later, my rear hub broke going up hill, just like that. Mind you... at this point my bike is only two weeks old. But... that is what mountain biking is all about. So I disassamble my wheels, get new spokes again and install new hubs. At this point I'm still thinking that my bike is the greatest thing ever.
    A few weeks later I am in the middle of the long, almost 30 mile ride of Blue marsh in Pa, and what happened? My crank broke...just like that. It was completely stripped. I just didnt get it, becasue I make sure that my cranks are nice and tight before and after every ride, but hey...that is what mountain biking is all about.
    There was also some issues with fast wear and tear of cables and other minor stuff. But up to this point I am Ok, becasue the components on my Mary are not Haro's responsibility. So up until now I'm still thinking that my Haro is great. I love riding it on technical terrain, rock gardens, up hills, down hills...etc. And then the last thing happened. A frame crack... A tiny little crack on the right chain stay. Thank God I noticed it while I was cleaning my bike and not becasue someone found me unconcious next to the trail with my bike in two pieces. Now, here is when it turns ugly. I brought my bike to my LBS (which sponsors me as a racer) and they said that it shoud be warrantied. In the mean time, they order a new frame and pay for it up front, becasue I needed a bike for the races. Well, after Haro inspected my 8 months old frame they decided they were not going to honor the warranty. Now, I am not cool with that.
    This bike was not even 1 year old. It is roughly 8 months old and it was used for cross country riding and racing. Not down hill, not free riding, no street stunts or any of that crap... strickly XC which includes all the things northeast xc has to offer. Roots, rock gardens, steep ascents, fast descents, some mud at times etc... I mean... it is in the name right? Mary XC. Also, the frame was treated with frame saver twice. That is once every four months. So what happened here?
    Luckily my LBS decided not to charge me for the new frame. But now I face a dilema. I am stuck with a new mary frame that might break again. Here I was thinking that my mary was the greatest thing ever, and turns out that Haro didnt even honred their frame warranty. So, since the frame does not seem to be suitable for normal XC riding, I am thinking about either selling it, or using it as a commuter bike... you know, throw in some fenders and a higher stem a wide and comfy saddle and put on some hybrid tires or something and obviously avoid potholes and bumps in the road.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaballoLoco
    A tiny little crack on the right chain stay.
    What reason did Haro give that they weren't going to replace the frame?
    "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings."

  3. #3

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    Dont know. I wasnt involved in the process. I was just told by the LBS service manager that Haro said no to replacing the frame. If it would've been 5 years old, or even two years old, I'd be ok with it. But that frame is not even a year old. I thought it would be replaced inmediately no questions asked.

  4. #4
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    Yeah, I'd want to know the reason why so I can ask warranty. There are exclusions and limitations to our warranty (like all bike manufacturers), so I'd like to know more.

    I'm not real sure why your shop would have ordered a new frame for you and paid for it up front without calling warranty first. That should have been the first step.

    I will tell you that we have had very few instances where we're seen Mary frames crack...and we have sold hundreds of these bikes. Most of the cases where we saw cracks were in cases of abuse (not saying that's the case with yours).

  5. #5
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    I walked down to warranty and asked them about this and actually grabbed your frame; I actually found out that we have only had 2 Mary frames ever returned to us. Yours and one that had an incomplete weld on the seatstay.

    The reason your frame was turned down for warranty is because this is the worst case of chain suck we have ever seen. You either have had bent chainrings or front derailleur adjustment issues that weren't taken care of. There are areas on your frame where the chain gouged into the frame so deep, it went clear though the tubing. Your frame cracked in one of these areas where the tubing was pierced.

    In this case, no it doesn't qualify for warranty replacement because this does fall under abuse. If your front der or chainrings were functioning properly, you would not have had chainsuck.

    Our warranty department sold a replacement frame to your shop at a fraction of the cost of a new one under our crash replacement program.

    I took a few pictures. Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.





    Last edited by downhilljill; 07-31-2007 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #6
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    Holy Crap!!!

  7. #7
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    Sorry to hear that you're having problems....

    CaballoLoco,

    Bummer about the frame and the problems, but if I could play devil's advocate, the Haro board is one of the few on this website where you can actually interface with all levels of employees at the company. They really do care about their stuff and produce a good product, IMO their participation in this forum shows that. Many other companies would handle it by not doing anything at all, in the hope that this thread would be eventually buried. Also, what did your shop say about the hub and crank? Did Truvativ warranty the crank for you? And if not, are you equally upset at them?

    My experience with the Haro Mary XC has been just the opposite. We have one in our demo fleet (along w/ the SS version) and trust me, it doesn't get babied. The only problem we've had with it happened when a rider pitched it down a rock garden trying to do a small drop and broke the rear derailleur hanger. It's amazing what people will try when they are not on their personal bike, ahem.

    Best of luck and stay positive! In reality the frame is not junk, remember steel can be repaired and I would not sweat that you would break two, if ridden properly.

    Oh, and hats off to your shop for taking care of you like that! Sounds like they take good care of you....

  8. #8
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    I typed my post as the pictures were being posted by DHJill, man, a picture really is worth a thousand words.....dang!
    Last edited by the_colorado_kid; 07-31-2007 at 04:17 PM.

  9. #9
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    Holy carp! I will keep my mouth shut about the OP's "oops I forgot to mention the way I abused my frame"... oops, I didn't keep my mouth shut.

    Most amazing thread I've seen in a while.
    I read that on the internet.

  10. #10

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    Let me see where i start. First, my LBS purchased the frame up front becasue I needed a bike to race with ASAP. They told me that Haro wouldnt warranty the frame until they saw it first and that would delay my training and casued me to miss some races. So thats the first thing. Also, I dont want to stir things up here, but I dont see how chainsuck will void a warranty. And no, my chain rings were not bent. Actually, that chainsuck happened just a days weeks after I purchased the bike. Chain suck in not abuse... its just chain suck, and it happens to anyone at anytime during a muddy ride. I just called my LBS and they said that Haro said that chain suck "its not their fault". Well, I guess chainsuck its my fault then huh?
    Like I said, I had no issues with the bike until now. I actually loved it. Even with all the hubs and wheels and crank and brakes and cable issues that I had, I still loved the bike. Even when I had to replace the big and middle chain rings, and the cassete with xtr's in less than six months becasue the whole thing wore out so bad, I still loved the bike. But voiding a warranty because of chainsuck in an almost new frame is just something I cant agree with, especially if the bike was being used for its inteneded purpose and nothing else. But listen, someone has to assume responsibility here, and I guess that has to be me. You guys allready made up your minds. I guess I'll have to be careful next time and try not to get chainsuck... cuz I dont think my LBS will pay for another new frame for me and God knows I cant be buying new bikes right now.

    Anyways, I am done here. Jill, I really appreciate your concern. Your response truly shows that you guys care, or at least you personally care. But, I still dont understand how you guys can't replace an 8 month old frameYou have left a bitter taste in the mouths of some good people. I'll stick to my LBS. They know how to take care of someone. I said my peace, and thank you all for your responses.

  11. #11
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    Holy grinding metal! I hope you aren't a bike mechanic.

    You had an issue with the bike the entire time you ran it. Poor adjustment and horrible abuse while in a chain suck condition equals a torn apart frame. Live and learn. No big deal, and you got out of it in great shape. Take the guys at the bike store some beer or pop or whatever.

    Had to see the issue though. Rode a Mary once. Thought she was pretty solid. Wondered what the complaint could be.

    I would keep riding the new Mary.


  12. #12

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    No man... no mechanic skills whatsoever... I am surprised that my mechanicns didnt see it though. But I really didnt have any issues. I mean, the chain got jammed in there once, big time though. I had to bang and kick the pedals to get it unjammed. But that was just the one time. I guess that did it. Hey, whatever. It happens. And I do bring my mechanics beer every friday. Maybe I should stop... hummmm... I wonder
    No big deal. I think I this point I see it more as a customer service issue... you know, like keeping a new customer happy kind of thing.
    But like I said, I am over it.

  13. #13
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    Don't stop taking beer, just do it after they are done with your bike!

  14. #14
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    Sorry Caballo, but chainsuck is not our fault. That's an adjustment issue. And that's a steel frame...if you only chainsucked it once, it looks like you pedaled the hell out of it to do that sort of damage. It's seriously the worst case I've ever seen.

    I'm truly sorry that this has left you with a bad impression about our bikes. We really do want people to be happy with their purchase. If you threw your new car in reverse as you drove down the freeway and blew your tranny out, would you expect the manufacturer to warranty it? It's sort of the same deal.

    And I have to ask why this point is even being argued...you didn't pay anything for the replacement frame...your shop did. And even at that, we really didn't have to go that far but understanding that your frame was less than a year old, we sold a frame to your shop for a song under Crash Replacement.

    Again, my sincere apologies this situation didn't turn out like you would have liked. If there's anything I can do to turn it around, I am all ears. PM me if you prefer.

    Peace.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Colossus
    Rode a Mary once. Thought she was pretty solid. Wondered what the complaint could be.

    I would keep riding the new Mary.

    Thanks 29C!

  16. #16
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    Is there a "JRA" forum on the site? This has to be linked to it. Can't wait to share this one at work tomorrow.

    Good analogy of the transmission. I'll have to use that. I am not bagging on caballoloco, but it amazes me what some consumers expect of a bicycle.

  17. #17
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    Oh, COME ON! For crying out loud! You had an accident (chainsuck) that if anyone's fault is the LBS's or, and I'm not saying this is the case, your own. AND your LBS has replaced the frame for free. Excellent CS right there. That damage would ruin any frame, and you made it much worse because you, as you say, did "bang and kick the pedals to get it unjammed". Bad move. Stuff like this can and do happen, and does NOT mean your frame was or is bad.

    About the faulty components, though: That's Haro's responsibility, and I'm sure they stand by it.

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    No man... I am not saying the frame was bad... I was just not expecting it to be a warranty issue with the manufacturer. Abuse and negligence is one thing. Getting chain suck half way thru a ride is another thing. If I use my bike for DH races, thats abuse, if I use my frame as a sledge hammer to tear down a concrete wall, thats abuse... If I get chain suck in the middle of a ride that turn out to be muddier than expected, well, that is kind of a gray area. And I had to kick on the pedals becasue otherwise i would have to carry my bike for 15 miles. I had no other way of getting it unjammed. I did noticed the groves in the frame but I didnt think for a second it was gonna break around that area. And what was I supposed to do? Stop riding it? Bring it in to the LBS? and then do what? Buy a new one? I would've made no difference.
    The issue is not with the bike. My issue was with the warranty department. Chain suck, at least the way I see it, is not an obvious form of abuse, it just happens. At least it was that way with me. I never had an issue before, and my bike was riding and shifting fine, and next thing I know my chain is jammed so far I couldnt even get it out. So how was I supposed to prevent that??? It just happens... And sometimes it takes chainsuck to happen for you to realize that there is an issue with alingment or cranks or whatever.
    Anyways, Jill, to answer your question, this is being argued becasue exactly of what you said. It was my LBS who paid for the frame, and they did it becasue the did not believe I should've paid for a new frame. Also, they were left with a sour impression after this thing ended. With that being said, I was not aware of the fact that you guys sold the new frame with a discount. That was nice. And you have been superb at addressing all my issues. Thanks a lot. Like I said, I call the good ones and the bad ones as well.
    Hats of to my LBS for purchasing the new frame for me. I love those guys, so more beer for them, and rum too, once I come back from Puerto Rico.

    I'll keep riding the new Mary... and I guess I'll be more carefull next time.
    As for now, I am done. And for those of you who think I was negligent, get your facts straight.

    Thanks Jill
    Peace!

  19. #19
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    Actually, I'd have expected having to pony up for a new frame after such damage, and blamed it on bad luck, but I'd first try the "poor adjustment" case against the LBS, and I guess this point is why they gave you a new frame for free. That, and because Haro gave them the frame at a "crash replacement" discounted price. It's not a warrantee issue that the metal chain digs through the frame. Chain suck can't be blamed on the manufacturer in any case. The way I see it the warrantee dept. has acted "above and beyond" just by rebating the new frame for your LBS. And your LBS certainly shows outstanding CS for giving it to you for no charge. Even IF it was their mechanic's fault IF the FD was poorly adjusted.

    SĄ%t happens.
    Last edited by Dazed; 08-01-2007 at 08:10 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed
    About the faulty components, though: That's Haro's responsibility, and I'm sure they stand by it.
    FYI, every component manufacturer is different. Some manufacturers give us replacement parts and want us to handle their warranty issues and others want to deal with their own warranties with the shop handling the issue with the customer.

    In the case where components used on our bikes break and/or have issues, your shop would call us first and we'd advise whether the vendor lets us handle the warranty or whether they need to go straight to the vendor.

  21. #21
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    Caballo,

    I spoke with Topher at your shop a few moments ago and it's all cool. Just so you know, I went ahead and credited thier account for the price they paid for your frame minus the expedited shipping just to keep things on the up and up with everyone.

    The last thing I want is anyone to be bummed on Haro and the level of service we provide.

    You have some real fans at that shop; they enjoy taking care of you because of your enthusiasm for the sport of cycling.

    I hope that helps.

    Happy trails.

  22. #22
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    I'm speechless! How good of Jill and haro is THAT?

  23. #23

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    Well I for one am impressed with Haros service. The problem with society is no one takes responsibility for their actions. I had a chainsuck problem with a aluminum hard tail and it did it to me 20+ time and I kicked it(Its a Gary Fisher not a Haro.) and my chainstays look great next to that. after reading it I thought I bet my bike is ready to bust in half too, it sees large drops,and jumps. but no. Some bikes have inherent chainsuckability, like mine, stock. which it isnt any longer due to that. Now heres a point ,your being sold a bicycle that is sold as operating well. Now if the frame design and component selection equals chainsuck, then Id say its a problem of Haros period. My favorite LBS is a haro dealer and I understand why those guys at his lbs replaced the frame as they did. Customer Service. Its too bad you had to get this far along to get half the service from the manufacturer on one hand, on the other that chainsuck was extreme and if it was my job to determine if it was a manufacturer defect, I guess Id have to ride one to see where the chainsuck issue really is. but if it wasnt present with a good tune up, Id laugh at that and throw it in the scrap bin as not our fault. but if they have only had 2 bad one their fault for sure, would it not be worth the minimal money it would take to keep their flawless record and impress this guy so much buy gladly replacing the frame and maybe a freakin t-shirt? Hed be telling everyone how much you guys rocked not sucked. the whole thing sucks. Except jill errr.... anyways Jill is a diligent serious employee that handles herself and her products flawlessly. tell your boss to give you a raise jill or im gonna post bad things about him and barn animals.

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    Huh... I am simply impressed. I wasnt expecting you to go that far, but... Thank you very very much on my behalf as well as Bikesport!
    Thank you so much!

  25. #25
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    I was getting worried reading the initial post as I've just bought a used Mary SS frame. And was beginning to side with the owner...until I see Jill's pictures. Thats like running an engine without any oil.

    Well done to Jill and Haro

  26. #26
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    No inherent chainsuck issues on these bikes...not saying it won't ever happen because let's face it...stuff does happen on any manufacturer's bike for the reasons I've already mentioned. The Truvativ cranks with the SRAM rear der and cassette work pretty flawlessly together.

    There's a nice review of the Mary XC in the most recent issue of Mountain Bike Action (I posted it on our website actually in the Ads and Reviews section) and there's a few reviews here on MTBR.com.

  27. #27
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    I have had nothing but the best service from Haro! Hi Jill,... Tate
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaballoLoco
    And for those of you who think I was negligent, get your facts straight.





    Is your Grandmother the lady who burned her mouth on McDonalds coffee and sued them?
    Last edited by tozovr; 08-01-2007 at 07:24 PM.
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    As a current shop employee and someone who has been in (and out of) the bike industry for ten years, I feel that this thread has transcended this forum. Unless Haro determined that the frame was misaligned, or the employees have personally experienced more than their fair share of chainsuck on the bikes, or received reports of frequent chainsuck (which DHJill already said no), I feel that the action of Haro in this case is inappropriate. Warranties cover manufacturer defects. Read one sometime. For an even more entertaining read, check out a bmx warranty. "This bike is not intended for trick riding or jumping." I know that consumers will jump all over for me for my comments, but if you heard the JRA stories that anyone in the industry has heard- you would understand why this is necessary.

    Any manufacturer worth its salt offers crash replacement (as Haro did from the very beginning in this case) and this is generous. Bike manufacturers offer it because it is not the auto industry. People within the industry are in it for the most part because they like (often times worship) bicycles. But it is still a business. Certain protocols must necessarily be maintained.

    Furthermore, I believe that the LBS acted inappropriately by allowing the consumer to believe that this was a warranty issue. Look at the pictures. Bicycles are not designed to survive metal on frame tube grinding. Then reread the first post to discover how hard he is on equipment. (Caballo- I am not singling you out. If your bike was improperly assembled, I apologize on behalf of bike mechanics across the country. The major difference between a walmart bike's durability and an inexpensive mountain bike from a shop is the quality of assembly. not that this is an inexpensive bike) Had a consumer brought this bike into our shop, we would've immediately made it clear that the best that he could hope for is a bro deal on a new frame. Anytime I am asked about the warranty on a new bike, I tell them what it is. Then I make it clear that this only covers MANUFACTURER'S DEFECTS, and that this RARELY happens. But I know that it does occasionally.

    Bottom line: business will always be business, even if it is the bike business.

    The one thing that I will single caballo and beeblebrox out for is kicking their bikes. Carry some tools or walk out with your mount on your shoulder. If you don't understand how to use the tools, get Park's big blue book of bicycle repair. Not only is the bicycle the "noblest invention of mankind" (-William Saroyan), it is one of the simplest.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.ray
    As a current shop employee and someone who has been in (and out of) the bike industry for ten years, I feel that this thread has transcended this forum. Unless Haro determined that the frame was misaligned, or the employees have personally experienced more than their fair share of chainsuck on the bikes, or received reports of frequent chainsuck (which DHJill already said no), I feel that the action of Haro in this case is inappropriate. Warranties cover manufacturer defects. Read one sometime. For an even more entertaining read, check out a bmx warranty. "This bike is not intended for trick riding or jumping." I know that consumers will jump all over for me for my comments, but if you heard the JRA stories that anyone in the industry has heard- you would understand why this is necessary.

    Any manufacturer worth its salt offers crash replacement (as Haro did from the very beginning in this case) and this is generous. Bike manufacturers offer it because it is not the auto industry. People within the industry are in it for the most part because they like (often times worship) bicycles. But it is still a business. Certain protocols must necessarily be maintained.

    Furthermore, I believe that the LBS acted inappropriately by allowing the consumer to believe that this was a warranty issue. Look at the pictures. Bicycles are not designed to survive metal on frame tube grinding. Then reread the first post to discover how hard he is on equipment. (Caballo- I am not singling you out. If your bike was improperly assembled, I apologize on behalf of bike mechanics across the country. The major difference between a walmart bike's durability and an inexpensive mountain bike from a shop is the quality of assembly. not that this is an inexpensive bike) Had a consumer brought this bike into our shop, we would've immediately made it clear that the best that he could hope for is a bro deal on a new frame. Anytime I am asked about the warranty on a new bike, I tell them what it is. Then I make it clear that this only covers MANUFACTURER'S DEFECTS, and that this RARELY happens. But I know that it does occasionally.

    Bottom line: business will always be business, even if it is the bike business.

    The one thing that I will single caballo and beeblebrox out for is kicking their bikes. Carry some tools or walk out with your mount on your shoulder. If you don't understand how to use the tools, get Park's big blue book of bicycle repair. Not only is the bicycle the "noblest invention of mankind" (-William Saroyan), it is one of the simplest.
    What an excellent way of wrapping this thread up and putting it to bed.

  31. #31
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    WOW....too cool. Bravo Jill.
    The wood is being bent! Let me know what you need!

  32. #32
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    Jill has always been good to me!
    "Don't give up, Never give up!"

  33. #33
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    I almost agree that giving away that frame was actually too good. I'll say it again: Outstanding customer service!

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by downhilljill
    Sorry Caballo, but chainsuck is not our fault. That's an adjustment issue. And that's a steel frame...if you only chainsucked it once, it looks like you pedaled the hell out of it to do that sort of damage. It's seriously the worst case I've ever seen.

    I'm truly sorry that this has left you with a bad impression about our bikes. We really do want people to be happy with their purchase. If you threw your new car in reverse as you drove down the freeway and blew your tranny out, would you expect the manufacturer to warranty it? It's sort of the same deal.
    Has anyone ever tried that, slamming a car in reverse while on the highway? I would like to see that. I bet a good manufacturer would design the car to not engage the reverse in that situation. But it would be fun to watch someone try it in a Kia.

    I am not defending the original poster one bit, but I do think a frame could be designed around the chain suck issue. Infact I have a few Haros that are designed this way. See, it's as simple as raising the chainstay above the chain. This eliminates the ability of the chain to get between the stay and crankrings. I remember a very old Haro hardtail design that had these elevated chainstays. I remember it was a steel frame and looked very exotic for the day. It had tubing all over the place and weighed an absolute TON. It came with a VERY rigid steel fork. This was in the early nineties I do believe. I always called them the praying mantis bikes because that's what they reminded me of. I had never seen this idea used before and I wonder if this is not a Haro original design. Kudos to Haro if it is, that's thinking. The current Haro Shift design is free from the dreaded chainsuck problem.

    Anyway, I am just pointing out that most problems can be defeated by good design. I am not at all saying that Haro is at fault here. After all, the OP certainly knew that chainsuck existed and went ahead and bought a frame where when chainsuck occurs, the chainstay will get scratched up...

    Quote Originally Posted by downhilljill
    And I have to ask why this point is even being argued...you didn't pay anything for the replacement frame...your shop did. And even at that, we really didn't have to go that far but understanding that your frame was less than a year old, we sold a frame to your shop for a song under Crash Replacement.
    OK, spill the beans, how much was the replacement? I would like to know how much the shop is out of.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney
    OK, spill the beans, how much was the replacement? I would like to know how much the shop is out of.
    Shop isn't out any money anymore; I credited their account for the price they paid to keep the shop and the customer happy. It's not an admission of defeat or poor design, it was simply in the name of spreading goodwill.

  36. #36
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    This has all been really good commentary, folks. B.Ray brings up some really good points and the best of them is taking the time to read your warranty and taking responsibility for your own actions. Most bike frame manufacturers warranties are pretty much the same. Sure, there are a few little tweaks here and there, but most all cover you for defects in material and workmanship. They also have several exclusions attached to them...racing being one of them. So is abuse. Before you flame me or Haro, read the warranties on some other manufacturers frames and you'll likely see the same thing.

    B.ray was right when he said the shop probably should not have led Caballo down the path into thinking he had a claim. I spoke to the shop and that's been taken care of. It's all cool.

    Take measures to minimize risks on your frame and parts, folks. I'm not saying tip-toe through the daisies on your bikes, but just take care of your stuff. Take the time to learn how to use the tools available to you and learn basic bike maintenance. And when something breaks, be willing to accept part of the blame if you are riding the bike beyond it's limits or you are abnormally hard on equipment.

    I've received both praise and criticism for refunding the shop's money for the replacement frame. That's OK. I didn't do it because I think Haro was wrong in this case...I did it to make the shop and customer happy.

    Good stuff, guys. Always cool to hear the comments that swing in either direction.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by downhilljill
    Shop isn't out any money anymore; I credited their account for the price they paid to keep the shop and the customer happy. It's not an admission of defeat or poor design, it was simply in the name of spreading goodwill.
    I just wanted to know how much the local bike shop was out to cause them to whine to their customer. I figure if it was something like $20 then this thread is totally rediculous. If it was more like $200 then I can see a small bike shop whining to their customer about it. Though still not a good decision.

    I found a picture of that Haro hardtail with the elevated stays. Chainsuck is not an issue with these frames. Is this a Haro original idea? I wish more bike companies thought about using a design like this. It really is superior for the rough and tumble (and muddy) environment of the mtn bike. Granted, some suspension designs can't allow this but it would be nice to see more of it.

    BTW, you need to bring back the XLS as a two-niner. Call it the XXLS.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  38. #38
    Unfit Norwegian
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    Elevated chainstays were big in the early nineties, and how stiff do you think those frames were?

  39. #39

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    b ray dont worry about how i treat my bike. If im enjoying a ride and i carry a few tools, and get chainsuck but its either carry my bike 7 miles or kick the pedal once and scratch up the frame believe me I am gonna kick it whether its on my bike I mentioned or any other bike I own period. all scratched up it goes off drops bigger than your ego, and no frame bustage yet. If what was on that picture is chainsuck then lopping your head off would be to give you a scratch. figuratively speaking. theres thats a good way to put this to rest. and god bless us all, everyone.
    Last edited by beeblebrox; 08-06-2007 at 12:01 PM.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed
    Elevated chainstays were big in the early nineties, and how stiff do you think those frames were?
    I can't recall ever seeing other manufacters using this design on a hardtail. I remember Mountain Cycle came out with a full suspension with elevated chainstays a few years later. Of course, Santa Cruz, Haro and many others use it today. But you're right, it was an insanely stiff hardtail. But this is not really a bad thing.

    It was a very heavy frame. Back in the day, nice steel frames were quite lightweight and lighter than today's, but this Haro frame was heavy by any standard. It was designed for <i>hucking</i> and was pretty much indestructible.

  41. #41
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    I meant the opposite. The elevated chainstays made the BB area very flexy. I recall elevated bikes from Haro, Fisher, Alpinestars, Yeti and many others.

  42. #42
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    Try putting on one of those anti chain-suck things like an N-Gear jumpstop or deda sharktooth thing. There's also one that attaches to the stay, but I can't remember the name of it.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkadi
    Try putting on one of those anti chain-suck things like an N-Gear jumpstop or deda sharktooth thing. There's also one that attaches to the stay, but I can't remember the name of it.
    that's not a very elegant solution but you're right, I had forgotten about those little inventions. perhaps the OP should look into this to keep his frame in tip top shape

  44. #44
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    On the fence

    I had been on the fence about buying a Mary XC but after reading this I realize that Haro, represented by Jill, cares about there bikes and customers. Guess what I will be riding come Monday!!!

  45. #45

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    There's a nice review of the Mary XC in the most recent issue of Mountain Bike Action (I posted it on our website actually in the Ads and Reviews section) and there's a few reviews here on MTBR.com. [/QUOTE]

    i read that review, and am pleased to see haro getting some attention. iwas dissapointed though not to see the sonix up against the others in the 1500$ shootout. i wanted to see how it compared to the competition. anyways, its good to see everything has worked for Caballo.

  46. #46
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    DownHillJill,

    Just so ya know I love my Mary! I take care of it and it rides sweet as pie.

    Jolly

  47. #47
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    don't you watch mythbusters? it does nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by heiney
    Has anyone ever tried that, slamming a car in reverse while on the highway? I would like to see that. I bet a good manufacturer would design the car to not engage the reverse in that situation. But it would be fun to watch someone try it in a Kia.

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkadi
    Try putting on one of those anti chain-suck things like an N-Gear jumpstop or deda sharktooth thing. There's also one that attaches to the stay, but I can't remember the name of it.
    Chain watcher

    The wood is being bent! Let me know what you need!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhilljill


    You must hate the bike or wanted to finish the race so badly pedaling through this trouble. You are so LUCKY to get a new frame free of charge. Yes, fire your mechanic for not telling you what you do wrong.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollybeggar
    DownHillJill,

    Just so ya know I love my Mary! I take care of it and it rides sweet as pie.

    Jolly
    Sweet!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    don't you watch mythbusters? it does nothing
    LOL! I saw that episode. I love those guys.

  52. #52
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    Man that's incredible..

    Great stuff Jill..

    My Mary SS's on order.. After being out of the sport for a number of years, and coming back rather astounded by the myriad of choices, I obviously made the right decision.

    I can assure you my frame will never look like that..

    Caballo, man I don't know what to say... I mean is this really necessary? You want to abuse the shyt out of your equipment going spastic trying to win races.., then don't trash the manufacturer. Serious racing's hard on equipment and you and your sponsor have to expect to replace worn out parts, etc.. regularly. I'd say by looking at the damage you got your money's worth and more out of that frame..

    Let's see.. Caballo needs a frame that's battleship tough.. 5 pounds or less.. Relatively inexpensive and guaranteed for life against an attack by a chain saw? No.., not on this planet..

    If I was Haro I would have had the factory put together a solid chro moly frame and shipped it you... Just for a few laughs.

    One thing you might consider if you can't avoid such chain slap in the future, peddling like there's no tomorrow or if your mechanic can't keep your front derailer in proper adjustment.. Go down to Home Depot and get a roll of thin, lightweight aluminum roof flashing, cut a piece and place it on this area of the frame and secure with plastic ties or black electrical tape. Then replace it after every race..
    Last edited by IntheBush; 06-04-2008 at 06:33 AM.

  53. #53
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    DHJ- There are areas on your frame where the chain gouged into the frame so deep,
    it went clear though the tubing. Your frame cracked in one of these areas where the
    tubing was pierced.


    LMFAO
    Wait it gets even better -
    No man... I am not saying the frame was bad... I was just not expecting it to be a
    warranty issue with the manufacturer. Abuse and negligence is one thing. Getting
    chain suck half way thru a ride is another thing.

    I guess that makes being stupid different from being a moron.

    As for now, I am done. And for those of you who think I was negligent, get your facts straight.

    LMFAO

    DHJ- I spoke with Topher at your shop a few moments ago and it's all cool. Just so you
    know, I went ahead and credited thier account for the price they paid for your frame minus
    the expedited shipping just to keep things on the up and up with everyone.

    The last thing I want is anyone to be bummed on Haro and the level of service we provide.


    Well it Ticks me off. The rest of us eventually end up paying higher prices just so you don’t
    have idiots like this running around bad mouthing your company. Please give the rest of us
    some credit, when we hear a complete moron badmouthing you product we ignore him.
    Last edited by threebikes; 11-30-2008 at 05:59 AM.

  54. #54
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    I propose that this thread be locked and renamed "Haro Mary XC: a warranty/LBS/CS story".

  55. #55
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    I disagree. This really is a topic about chainsuck, and whether it is the fault of the user or the manufacturer. At one time, I would have agreed with theOP's statement:

    Also, I dont want to stir things up here, but I dont see how chainsuck will void a warranty.
    Chainsuck can be caused by a lot of things. Bikes of the late 1980s had chain suck bad... my 1987ish Stumpjumper had it so bad that I had to install a chainsuck device to keep the chain on. There were NO adjustments that would prevent it. But it was a steel bike, and I could ride through chainsuck with virtually no damage to the bike.


    On my Trek Fuel EX9, I have experienced chain suck twice. So, as the OP states, Chainsuck IS a fact of MTB life. BUT, and especially on aluminum bikes, it is important not to continue pedaling during a chain suck event. The chain is harder than aluminum, and a chain will chew up an aluminum chain stay. Further, it is important that you install some chainstay protection to prevent damage during brief chainsuck events, and FINALLY, the OP's bike was under warranty, and the LBS should have worked with him on adjustment during the first few months to minimize chain suck.

    In short, the OP could have prevented the damage. PERIOD. He chose not to. So maybe relable: "Haro Mary XC: a new bike chainsuck/warranty/LBS/CS story". And, reinstate the pictures of the chainstay. Let the reader judge for her/himself.
    Last edited by rdhood; 12-01-2008 at 10:12 AM.

  56. #56
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    The bike this guy destroyed has a steel frame. It would have taken a while for
    the chain to saw into the frame. That’s negligence or abuse anyway you look at it.





    If you don't think this will work, use a hose clamp instead of the zip ties.


  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhood
    And, reinstate the pictures of the chainstay. Let the reader judge for her/himself.
    Oops! I had those photos on my Photobucket account and deleted them. I completely forgot that I had them linked to this post.

    But luclkily, we still have the frame here on hand so I took some photos of it.



  58. #58
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    I would not have expected the frame to be replaced for free. I also have 10 years under my belt of shop managment and wrenching, I have seen this before.

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