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Thread: Haro Mary!

  1. #1
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    Haro Mary!

    This is the SS Version but there is a gearie-only version, too. Both have a dropout that can take a derailleur hanger.

    SSMike with his personal ride
    IMG_4015.jpg

    IMG_4016.jpg
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  2. #2
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    Holy Crapsicles!
    This is going to be one heck of a year for us and 29ers!

    Guess you need to run a Mary bar on this one, eh?

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  3. #3
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    Down tube gusset
    IMG_4017.jpg

    The stays are flattened and the dimple will not be in the production bikes
    IMG_4018.jpg
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  4. #4
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    The singlespeed Mary will be speced with the Mary bar
    IMG_4019.jpg

    The gearie version will have funky straight bars.

    The TT decal
    maryss.jpg

    SS version = EBB and the metallic "Ginger" paint.

    Gearie = regular BB and a metallic "Humbolt" medium dark green.

    Both will be sold as complete bikes with the RS Tora fork.
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  5. #5
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    It's happened. On-One goes OEM!
    Watch out, Uncle Tom!

  6. #6
    JJT
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    Rrrrrrr, that looks very Crispy, thanks for sharing!

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  7. #7
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    I bet they won't be able to make them fast enough. Haro may not seem like a high end bike, but every one that I ever rode had excellant geometry, handled great, and rode like a dream.
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  8. #8
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    Take THAT Trek and your "96er"!

    Finally! (WHEW!) I've been sitting on this info for months now! Glad to see the "cat" is finally outta the bag now! Time to rejoice all you lovers of steel, geared only hardtails!

    This is what Trek should have done instaed of that............whatever!

    Haro better get ready to have it's doors knocked down! Only one nit so far....... Why does the gearie version have to be a shade of green? Is this the official color of 29"ers, or what?

    Anyway, cheers to Haro! Glad to see this come to the light of day! (Thanks martini for torturing me with the super secret info months ago! )
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  9. #9
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    Wow...world domination can't be far behind. It's gonna be a real interesting year. I'm especially looking forward to the point at which Fox and Manitou finally cave in and make forks.

  10. #10
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    Cool! It doesn't have Haro's characteristic bent top tube (thankfully).

  11. #11
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    This is huge !

    Couldn't have picked a better manufacurer to come on board to fill the inexpensive,geared, steel void in the 29er market.
    Any idea on the release date and weight ?
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  12. #12
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    Good move...

    I have to give Haro a pat on the back for the ballsy move. And the bike is beautiful..... good stuff..
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  13. #13
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    Geared and SS specific steel frames . Nice. I bought my custom bikes one year too early!

    Oh well. I have four 29ers at this point. I don't think my wife will notice ONE more.

    Hmmmm, Salsa or Haro . . .

  14. #14
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    Will there be a frame only option from Haro as well?

    Must search for local Haro Dealers now.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Will there be a frame only option from Haro as well?

    Must search for local Haro Dealers now.
    If you find one...let me know... How do I get one?

    Does anyone have any idea of how much?

  16. #16
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    If you find one...let me know... How do I get one?

    Does anyone have any idea of how much?

    I hope it is cheap. I think I may be able to talk the wife into letting me get a cheap single this summer if I can find some way to make a couple of bucks. Looks good. Price I am guessing is around 799 to 849 if I were to guess. I haven't been on a Haro since my 1992 Haro Extreme elevated chainstay bike.

    I am thinkin' hard about the Redline too.

  17. #17
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    Bike shown seems to be a personal ride around a sample frame. The mentioned $500 price might well work with more typical complete-bike parts. Like the Redline.

  18. #18
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    Any idea on balpark cost? Looks like some competition for the GF Rig.

  19. #19
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    I'm jonesin to see the green gearie photos. Bring em on Shiggy!

  20. #20
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    Just talked to my local LBS owner

    29er friendly shop and he said he knows the designer and the MSRP was going to be around $1000. Also, it's supposed to be Reynolds 853. All I know.
    As for the Pyramids, there is nothing to wonder at in them so much as the fact that so many men could be found degraded enough to spend their lives constructing a tomb for some ambitious booby, whom it would have been wiser and manlier to have drowned in the Nile, and then given his body to the dogs. - Henry David Thoreau

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerFly
    29er friendly shop and he said he knows the designer and the MSRP was going to be around $1000. Also, it's supposed to be Reynolds 853. All I know.
    $1K for the complete bike right?

  22. #22
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    Good deal, more choices = cheaper costs for us, plus hopefully increased selections of 29r gear!
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerFly
    29er friendly shop and he said he knows the designer and the MSRP was going to be around $1000. Also, it's supposed to be Reynolds 853. All I know.
    Is that for SS or geared ?

  24. #24
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    Green Mary
    IMG_4028.jpg
    IMG_4029.jpg

    IIRC complete bike price will be roughly $1100 (geared) & $900 (singlespeed).
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  25. #25
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    Another angle
    IMG_4030.jpg
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  26. #26
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    SWEET ride Does anyone know how the SS version is tensioned? EBB? Horizontals?
    what the fu#k is the internet?

  27. #27
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    That Green is sweet"
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  28. #28
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    Thank goodness!!! I work at a shop that carries Haro. I will finally be able to sell people what I think they should really be riding... 29er's.

    "I want to buy a bike that's good for the road and trails."
    "Umm, tough. We've got hybrids..."

    NO MORE!!! I can't wait to get some in the shop

  29. #29
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  30. #30
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    Yes!!! Now my choices are getting better for a geared specific frame. Thanks for the pics, Shig!

  31. #31
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    Any idea when these will be available?

  32. #32
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    Any one else have problems with the pics loading?
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  33. #33

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    Cool! Good job Haro!

  34. #34
    bhc
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    4130???

    If you look closely at one of the pics in #24, you see 130 showing with another number unable to see clearly, just wondering as someone previously stated they would be reynolds 853
    I guess we will just have to wait to see what comes out of production.

  35. #35

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    Thanks

    Thanks for the good words. The frame material will be a 4130 butted tubeset that has very similar specifications and wall thicknesses to Reynolds 631 tubing, but won't be a "name brand" tube set. We got these frames in just a week ago and we went into a frenzy to build them in time for Sea Otter so we can race on them. So questions like "how much does it weigh?", I don't have the answer to yet. Suffice it to say, it is much lighter than our previous 26" wheel frame.

    The target retail prices are no more than $1000 for the single speed (with On-One Mary bars) and a bout $1300 for the geared bike. Both with a Tora fork at that price. If I can get a good rigid fork going for the single speed, it may have that and, therefore, lower the retail.

    For now, we are having a damn fun time riding them.

  36. #36
    mvi
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    Wow! 1300$ for a bike with an XTR crankset!!
    Just kidding. When are the bikes available?

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Wow! 1300$ for a bike with an XTR crankset!!
    Just kidding. When are the bikes available?
    Yeah, wouldn't that be nice! They should be available after August.

  38. #38
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    What I'd like to see...

    A 21" frame offering and Reba.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    A 21" frame offering and Reba.
    I'm 6'3" and have a seat height of 33 1/2" and, well, I made the 20" to fit me perfectly. The seat post sizes are 31.6 and with a 400mm post will fit guys up and over 6'5" pretty easily. T/T is near 25" on the 20". Frame onlys would be frame only so you can do the fork of your choice.

    Head angle is 72deg with an 80mm fork or that rigid fork.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheelboy_490
    Any one else have problems with the pics loading?
    Yep! I have not had a picture load since they updated the site. Time for DSL, no more
    dial-up for me.

  41. #41
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    I'd like to see a rigid fork. (and another run of the Haro Werx SS, I can't find on anywhere!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    I'd like to see a rigid fork. (and another run of the Haro Werx SS, I can't find on anywhere!)
    We are working on a rigid fork for the ss model. Until we get one done that is "right," a Tora is in it's place.

    Are you looking for a Werx SS frame which had 26" wheels? Sorry, not going to happen with tiny wheels.

  43. #43
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Thanks for the good words. The frame material will be a 4130 butted tubeset that has very similar specifications and wall thicknesses to Reynolds 631 tubing, but won't be a "name brand" tube set. We got these frames in just a week ago and we went into a frenzy to build them in time for Sea Otter so we can race on them. So questions like "how much does it weigh?", I don't have the answer to yet. Suffice it to say, it is much lighter than our previous 26" wheel frame.

    The target retail prices are no more than $1000 for the single speed (with On-One Mary bars) and a bout $1300 for the geared bike. Both with a Tora fork at that price. If I can get a good rigid fork going for the single speed, it may have that and, therefore, lower the retail.

    For now, we are having a damn fun time riding them.

    $1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    $1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.
    Depends on the rest of the spec. You can not look at just the frame and fork alone.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    $1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora.
    My sentiments exactly. $1300 for Tora with gears, I think not.

  46. #46
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    Hey, I'm just glad they're

    Quote Originally Posted by 1-track-mind
    My sentiments exactly. $1300 for Tora with gears, I think not.
    not made out of the same material as my coke can. I like steel, though I may still go with a monkey 1x9 for my gearie.
    As for the Pyramids, there is nothing to wonder at in them so much as the fact that so many men could be found degraded enough to spend their lives constructing a tomb for some ambitious booby, whom it would have been wiser and manlier to have drowned in the Nile, and then given his body to the dogs. - Henry David Thoreau

  47. #47
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    Cool. Now I need to start saving some money.

    Yeah, I am still looking for a "small wheel" Werx SS. There aren't many disc-specific steel 26" singlespeeds with EBB. I like to have the option of running 700c/disc wheels for the street and mtb wheels. I know, I can do the same with a 29er now...

    Now, hopefully there will be a lot of these Haros produced as framesets and for a decent price.

  48. #48
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Depends on the rest of the spec. You can not look at just the frame and fork alone.

    ...unless that is what i really care about. I have lots of parts laying around to upgrade this and that. I get your point though.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by totally_fixxated
    Yep! I have not had a picture load since they updated the site. Time for DSL, no more dial-up for me.
    Are you sure you are logged in?

    You won't see any pics if not, dial or broadband.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    ...unless that is what i really care about. I have lots of parts laying around to upgrade this and that. I get your point though.
    The frame is certainly worthy of a $1300 bike. Granted, the Tora is a lower spec, at least the '06 model. With an August release these are likely to have '07 components.
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  51. #51

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    seeing that Brant is viewing, I gotta say that the Mary bars are spot on. I loved the feel, position and especially the handling of the bike with your bars. Good job! I'm super excited about using them on our bike. Thanks!

  52. #52
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    I love it!

    Some really nice work with the flattened chainstay's and the frame in general. I love the Green especially. For me, I'd love to see a rigid instead ofa shock at any price point. Just don't use shocks anymore. Pace, On-One now Salsa, etc. So many good rigid forks that you might be able to OEM.

    In any case, my wife has admitted that it's about time we got me a new bike so I'm shoppin'! Can you get them in Europe (Germany) or anywhere in the EU?

    Again, great to see it in steel and that Haro is hanging it out there for the 29'ers.

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    Good job! Love that bike!


  54. #54
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    The green frame is absolutely brilliant. Shame about the Tora fork, though. And if I understand correctly, shame that green frame is a geared-only frame (perhaps I misread).

    Are these being sold as complete bikes only, or are frame-only options available?

  55. #55
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    I think it was already stated that there will be two complete bikes (one SS, on geared) and two frames available (one SS, one geared)...right?

    $500 for just the frame? I'd like to see it a bit cheaper...

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    I saw 3 of the new 29'ers out on the trail late Wednesday and they rock.

  57. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpinWheelz
    The green frame is absolutely brilliant. Shame about the Tora fork, though. And if I understand correctly, shame that green frame is a geared-only frame (perhaps I misread).

    Are these being sold as complete bikes only, or are frame-only options available?
    Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

    Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

    It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

    Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

    It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.
    Sounds perfect! A rigid geared bike with no canti mounts! Woo Hoo!

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Speed
    Some really nice work with the flattened chainstay's and the frame in general. I love the Green especially. For me, I'd love to see a rigid instead ofa shock at any price point. Just don't use shocks anymore. Pace, On-One now Salsa, etc. So many good rigid forks that you might be able to OEM.

    In any case, my wife has admitted that it's about time we got me a new bike so I'm shoppin'! Can you get them in Europe (Germany) or anywhere in the EU?

    Again, great to see it in steel and that Haro is hanging it out there for the 29'ers.
    Thanks. I'm not sure which of our distributors would be carrying these bikes/frames. Right now, our mounain bike distributor in Germany seems to be missing in action (as in we don't currently have one). We're working on it, though. And we'll be at Eurobike as well with a booth.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

    Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

    It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.
    Happy to help with your market research, Mike!

    Any hints on the other component spec?
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  61. #61
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    Any geometry details yet? Or more specifically, will there be a "small" with ETT in the 22.5-23" range, or only "Medium" and larger frames?
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  62. #62
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    I like the looks of that bike/frame/fork a lot. I think $400 f/f is a good pricepoint. I really like the color of the ss frame.

    I also like the looks of that WTB single-duty rear hub. Would that hub hold 3-4 cogs out back for a 1x3 or 1x4 setup?

  63. #63
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    what size tire?

    Now that WTB has announced a 2.55 weirwolf for 29ers, what size will fit in back?

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    Geometry:
    16" - ETT = 23"
    18" - ETT = 23.6"
    20" - ETT = 24.6"
    Actual CS length = 17.6" - I don't like making steep seat angles to get the stays short. I believe seat angles should be proper angles for proper bike fit and then CS length can follow.

    There will be clearance for the new 2.55 tire. The boys in Mill Valley were kind enough to give me drawings for the new tire so I could ensure proper clearance. As it stands, there is a bunch of clearance right now for the 2.3 tires.

    I'm running a WTB single speed hub and think that there is space for at least 3 cogs, maybe 4. The right dropout on the frame is replaceable so it is possible to run a derailleur on the ss frame with a full cable run zip-tied to the frame.

    Components:
    geared bike will be a mix of Truvativ cranks, Sram X7 shifters w/ X9 r/d, WTB rims and tires, Shimano 6-bolt rotor hubs, Avid 5 cable discs and the Reba.

    SS bike will be the same WTB rims and tires, brakes, a single-speed cassette hub from Taiwan, and Avid 5 cable disc brakes.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

    Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

    It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.
    Good move ! I think you will be glad you upgraded to Reba.
    The biggest problem now is waiting till August.

  66. #66
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    I"d stay away from that there hub Todd. Brad blew his up in the middle(with around 100 miles opn it) of Council Bluffs last weekend. Had a fun walk out while Pete and I rode the rest of the trail. GREAT fun. Berryman sucked. Way blown out from the last rain.
    Just a regular guy.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~martini~
    I"d stay away from that there hub Todd. Brad blew his up in the middle(with around 100 miles opn it) of Council Bluffs last weekend. Had a fun walk out while Pete and I rode the rest of the trail. GREAT fun. Berryman sucked. Way blown out from the last rain.
    The only spare parts I saw in the WTB Sea Otter booth were several dozen FH mechs for the LaserLite hubs (and a small pile of old parts they replaced).
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  68. #68
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    Wow, $400 f/f. How awesome is that? Way to go Mike.

    At this point, it is tough to wait till Aug.

  69. #69
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    Holy crap - I like the tt lengths.........these are going to be hot sellers.

    Great job Haro!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho
    Wow, $400 f/f. How awesome is that? Way to go Mike.

    At this point, it is tough to wait till Aug.
    Projected delivery date reminder:
    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    They should be available after August.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Geometry:
    16" - ETT = 23"
    Nice!
    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Actual CS length = 17.6" - I don't like making steep seat angles to get the stays short. I believe seat angles should be proper angles for proper bike fit and then CS length can follow.
    Thanks for that. I think the steep seat angles found on some small 29"ers force too many people to run setback seatposts, creating a longer cockpit than the published ETT would imply and causing fit issues for us short guys. 23" ETT with a reasonable STA works for me. Cool!

    And although my personal interest is in the singlespeed model, thanks for bringing a sorely needed steel gearie to the market.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 04-12-2006 at 09:05 PM.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    There will be clearance for the new 2.55 tire. The boys in Mill Valley were kind enough to give me drawings for the new tire so I could ensure proper clearance.
    You couldn't pass that drawing over could you?

  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    You couldn't pass that drawing over could you?
    In the interest of fat tires - check your e-mail.

  74. #74
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    Any ideas about the stem length used with that Mary bar? It looks kinda long in the pic, may just be an illusion of sorts though.

    I'm facing a tough decision now, of which new bike to get...and it ain't getting easier.

  75. #75
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    Mary bars are designed to use the same stem length as a "normal" straight bar.
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  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWay Ray
    Any ideas about the stem length used with that Mary bar? It looks kinda long in the pic, may just be an illusion of sorts though.

    I'm facing a tough decision now, of which new bike to get...and it ain't getting easier.
    90, 100 and 110 on the 16", 18" and 20" in that order. The stem I'm using is a 130, which is what I use for all flat, riser, Mary or Jones bars, but that's because I'm sometimes referred to as a giant.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    90, 100 and 110 on the 16", 18" and 20" in that order. The stem I'm using is a 130, which is what I use for all flat, riser, Mary or Jones bars, but that's because I'm sometimes referred to as a giant.

    I am very excited about the rigid SS version. Thanks again. It is looking more like exactly what I am looking for! Steel, rigid, fairly inexpensive, and a complete bike.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    In the interest of fat tires - check your e-mail.
    yeah! it fits!

  79. #79
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    It also did quite well on race day at the Sea Otter, eh Mike?

    Bested a large majority of the SS class.
    -eric-

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~martini~
    I"d stay away from that there hub Todd. Brad blew his up in the middle(with around 100 miles opn it) of Council Bluffs last weekend. Had a fun walk out while Pete and I rode the rest of the trail. GREAT fun. Berryman sucked. Way blown out from the last rain.
    Damn, that sucks. I was on the Rig this weekend for a very similar reason - the LDLite hub on my Lobster is blown out. WTB is getting me hooked up with a new freehub body for a reasonable price, so it should be back in action pretty soon. I was really hoping that the SS hub would be a little stouter than the LDLite. Maybe I should just go ahead and get Hope or Profile hubs.

    Good to meet you this weekend. Try not to post too many of those pics of me walking all the hills. I'm embarassingly out of shape, and it shows (in more ways than one). My mechanized trailbuilding skills are getting much better though.

    Too bad to hear that about the Berryman, but that was the opinion that we had been getting for a while. We've actually moved our annual Bonktoberfest trip to Syllamo from Berryman for that reason (Syllamo is only an additional 30-60 minute drive).

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Sounds perfect! A rigid geared bike with no canti mounts! Woo Hoo!
    Both those bikes need removeable canti mounts.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihatemybike
    Both those bikes need removeable canti mounts.
    Not putting them on in the first place means you do not have to remove them later!

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  83. #83
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    ... and if we just ... What!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis Buxton
    Damn, that sucks. I was on the Rig this weekend for a very similar reason - the LDLite hub on my Lobster is blown out.

    Good to meet you this weekend. Try not to post too many of those pics of me walking all the hills. I'm embarassingly out of shape, and it shows (in more ways than one). My mechanized trailbuilding skills are getting much better though.
    I was going to say something about Toddly riding a bike but then I saw the rest of the post. Ha! Um, Todd... you have a Rig now? I'm missing something here.

  84. #84
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    What is a Mary

    Why "Mary"??

    Can you make it in pink? I hear pink is the new gold!
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownBiker
    Why "Mary"??

    Can you make it in pink? I hear pink is the new gold!
    I'll answer your question with a question...what CCR song did the lyrics "Big Wheels Keep on Turning" come from? If you know the answer, you'll know why it's called Mary.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Speed
    I was going to say something about Toddly riding a bike but then I saw the rest of the post. Ha! Um, Todd... you have a Rig now? I'm missing something here.
    You didn't hear about that? Jeez, where you been, out of the county?

    When they did the Zeke raffle at RIM, the Trek Store donated a Rig, which happened to be the very last thing raffled off at the end of the night....and guess whose big fat ass won it.....so now I have a rigid steel gearie and a suspended aluminum SS (how'd I get that backwards?). I haven't ridden it much, b/c I've been spending a little too much time down at LOSP, but once I finish that, I'll be able to get back on the bike more regularly.

    I keep thinking about selling the frame and having Rob build me a cruiser frame but I just can't make up my mind.

  87. #87
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    That's cool that CCR gave the rights away to use their song lyrics for a bike.

    What is the weight limit on one of those bikes?
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  88. #88
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    Jill, correct me if I'm wrong, but in your quote from the song, you guys were actually referring to what the music elite know to be the definitive recording of Proud Mary, which was of course recorded by Leonard Nimoy. Right? Your pointing out that, CCR may also have done it, was purely for the benefit of those less musically literate.

    A nod to a trademarked (ach! copyrighted I mean. good call, Law.) work, specifically, a 5 word quote from a song (especially one this commonly used) is entirely within the law. Reprinting the entire lyric sheet on the frame & selling the bike as a way to get the lyrics would not be. Big difference. Anyway, CCR the band lost the rights to almost all of their works long ago to a bunch of sharky lawyers. If it were infringement, those clowns would be the first to have it coming.
    Last edited by fsp; 04-15-2006 at 01:00 AM. Reason: head. ass.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsp
    Jill, correct me if I'm wrong, but in your quote from the song, you guys were actually referring to what the music elite know to be the definitive recording of Proud Mary, which was of course recorded by Leonard Nimoy. Right? Your pointing out that, CCR may also have done it, was purely for the benefit of those less musically literate.

    A nod to a trademarked work, specifically, a 5 word quote from a song (especially one this commonly used) is entirely within the law. Reprinting the entire lyric sheet on the frame & selling the bike as a way to get the lyrics would not be. Big difference. Anyway, CCR the band lost the rights to almost all of their works long ago to a bunch of sharky lawyers. If it were infringement, those clowns would be the first to have it coming.

    It woul be copyright, not trademark that would be a concern when quoting from that song. But I agree, no infringement, and even if there was, it would be a fair use---no liability.

    It has always been ok to create new works that were "inspired" by previous ones. But you can't copyright just a name anyway.

    I am not up on trademark law, but I would seriously wonder in a common name like Mary could be trademarked. Maybe so if the trademark's scope is narrowed or something.

    Whatever, I am going to get back to studying here in, of all places, a law library.

  90. #90
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    Tora Tora

    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    $1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.
    The Tora is just a Reba with beefier steel upper tubes. Otherwise it's the same fork. So unless the 1/2 lb of weight is what's turning you off, there's no reason to think of the Tora as "low-grade"

  91. #91
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    Totally OT

    Anyone know what grips are on the SS?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    It woul be copyright, not trademark that would be a concern when quoting from that song. But I agree, no infringement, and even if there was, it would be a fair use---no liability.

    It has always been ok to create new works that were "inspired" by previous ones. But you can't copyright just a name anyway.

    I am not up on trademark law, but I would seriously wonder in a common name like Mary could be trademarked. Maybe so if the trademark's scope is narrowed or something.

    Whatever, I am going to get back to studying here in, of all places, a law library.
    And you all are very correct...the "Big Wheels Keep On Turning" graphics are not going to be on production bikes just for that reason. The costs involved in either purchasing rights or fighting it in court if we didn't purchase the rights would far outweigh the benefits of having those 5 little words on the TT. The 3 bikes that were at Sea Otter were prototype samples.

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durga
    Anyone know what grips are on the SS?
    The grips in the photo? They are a new WTB locking grip called the 4-front clamp-on grip.

  94. #94
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    Just curious, what kind of steel will be used (sorry if this has already been asked/answered)?
    Chimay: nectar of the gods
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    Quote Originally Posted by lushmd
    Just curious, what kind of steel will be used (sorry if this has already been asked/answered)?
    4130

    Look for "ssmike" posts for details
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  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by lushmd
    Just curious, what kind of steel will be used (sorry if this has already been asked/answered)?
    It's a 4130 butted tubeset that has very close specifications to Reynolds 631 tubing.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    90, 100 and 110 on the 16", 18" and 20" in that order. The stem I'm using is a 130, which is what I use for all flat, riser, Mary or Jones bars, but that's because I'm sometimes referred to as a giant.
    Thanks Mike. I'm 6'4 myself, the specs sound exactly like what I've been looking for frame size wise. Now, just the long wait, and trying to get one in Australia...DO you know someone in the local distrubition company I could hasle???

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    It woul be copyright, not trademark that would be a concern when quoting from that song. But I agree, no infringement, and even if there was, it would be a fair use---no liability.
    I am not an IP expert, but I would say that it is a simple phrase in the English language that it describes what happens if big wheels start moving. It is not unique enough to be copywritable, at least not in general.

    I am sure with a little research, you could find that phrase has been used before the songwriter used it. The songwriter merely made it more popular than previously. But I wouldn't go saying it's a "quote" from the song, now you are getting in trouble.

    It is perfectly usable commercially. I think if you like the phrase you should use it and stand up for your free speech rights. There are too many weenies out there who back down when faced with companies that threaten law suits, especially in the IP area. Makes me want to become a black hat IP lawyer, but I don't qualify to take the patent bar....

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWay Ray
    Thanks Mike. I'm 6'4 myself, the specs sound exactly like what I've been looking for frame size wise. Now, just the long wait, and trying to get one in Australia...DO you know someone in the local distrubition company I could hasle???
    Pacific Brands (previously known as Repco) in Melbourne has been the Haro distributor for as long as I can remember, or have been at Haro (going on my 14th year).

  100. #100
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    How much will one of those bad boys (girls) weigh in at? I've always been looking for a girl named Mary.
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  101. #101
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasi
    I am not an IP expert, but I would say that it is a simple phrase in the English language that it describes what happens if big wheels start moving. It is not unique enough to be copywritable, at least not in general.

    I am sure with a little research, you could find that phrase has been used before the songwriter used it. The songwriter merely made it more popular than previously. But I wouldn't go saying it's a "quote" from the song, now you are getting in trouble.

    It is perfectly usable commercially. I think if you like the phrase you should use it and stand up for your free speech rights. There are too many weenies out there who back down when faced with companies that threaten law suits, especially in the IP area. Makes me want to become a black hat IP lawyer, but I don't qualify to take the patent bar....
    I agree that one way or another it should not be a big deal. I am not even sure if it could be established that there is infringement. If so, I would argue that the Fair Use statutory defense would provide protection.

    I mean could a bike w/ "big wheels keep on turning" on it be considered a derivitive work? Seems like a stretch. I am not sure that the phrase is enough to be considered a violation of the copyright owner's right to distribute copies of his work either, since is just a small portion of the total work (which would technically be called "de minimus" copying), but it might since it is an important part. Anyway...who know copyright is not exactly always predictable sometimes, which is a problem in my opinion.

    Anyway, I am not a fan of all of the licensing that is going on. Folks would rather just buy a license to avoid a potential lawsuit. Then this becomes so common that everyone assumes that this is the way it is done. In the end, things that should be in the public domain, end up subject to licensing agreements which is a bad thing. The US Constitution states allows patents, copyright and trademarks "to promote the Progress of Science and the useful Arts..." Arguably too much protection stiffles creativity.

    Sorry for the legal crap...but it makes me feel like spending $$$,$$$ on my legal education is somewhat worthwhile.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownBiker
    How much will one of those bad boys (girls) weigh in at? I've always been looking for a girl named Mary.
    Too soon to quote a weight. These are preproduction frames with a mishmash of components. Finial spec has not been announced.
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  103. #103
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    fair use

    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    I agree that one way or another it should not be a big deal. I am not even sure if it could be established that there is infringement. If so, I would argue that the Fair Use statutory defense would provide protection.
    I am not particularly sure what "fair use" is, but I would assume it is oriented toward nonprofit usage of a copyrighted work, like libraries, classrooms, neighborhood parties and whatnot. If this is correct, here, the fact that the words are being placed on an item (bicycle) which is being sold for profit might hurt that argument. Of course, I am probably wrong that "fair use" in supposed to be nonprofit. I was working at a patent firm once and I saw photocopies of copyrighted materials being routinely submitted as part of patent applications. I asked one of the attorneys about this. He said it was "fair use." I thought that it didn't seem fair, this was a for-profit law firm filing a patent for an inventor who planned to make money off the patent using articles in their entirety printed in magazines and obviously copyrighted. Shouldn't these authors get something?

    When I think of "fair use" I think of entire works being copied, possibly attribution being made to the original authors, and no profit being involved for the usage. I would say that the first line of defense here, is that it is not possible to obtain a copyright for five general words used in a single sentence of otherwise copyrightable work. If it was, a lot of people who have written voluminous works could go through their works and find a lot of five word phrases which are currently being used in violation of their rights

    Sorry if this is getting a bit far afield, but it is relevant to 29ers, well at least to 29er logos and text....

  104. #104
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    We've got TT and chainstay length numbers, but do we have HT angles and seat tube angles for the various sizes yet?

    Oh yeah - that green paint looks great, but how's about some different Haro stickers to complement it better. just nitpicking.

    Can't wait to hear more about these frames.

  105. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    We've got TT and chainstay length numbers, but do we have HT angles and seat tube angles for the various sizes yet?

    Oh yeah - that green paint looks great, but how's about some different Haro stickers to complement it better. just nitpicking.

    Can't wait to hear more about these frames.
    Angles will vary depending on length of fork. With the rigid fork I want to use, head angles will be at 72.0. Figure no more than a degree slacker with a suspension fork before sag is factored.

    Seat angles vary from 73 for the 16" and 18" to 72.5 on the 20". BB drop is 60 but that can vary depending on where the bb is run in the eccentric.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Angles will vary depending on length of fork. With the rigid fork I want to use, head angles will be at 72.0. Figure no more than a degree slacker with a suspension fork before sag is factored.

    Seat angles vary from 73 for the 16" and 18" to 72.5 on the 20". BB drop is 60 but that can vary depending on where the bb is run in the eccentric.
    Thanks, I'm currently riding a KM as a geared bike, but if I continue to want to run a geared hardtail I'd rather ride a frame designed to be more gear friendly (lack of horizontal drops).

    So I'm putting together a spreadsheet to compare my options.

    So far the Mary and the 16" Inbred are my two best options.

    Cheers,

    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Thanks, I'm currently riding a KM as a geared bike, but if I continue to want to run a geared hardtail I'd rather ride a frame designed to be more gear friendly (lack of horizontal drops).

    So I'm putting together a spreadsheet to compare my options.

    So far the Mary and the 16" Inbred are my two best options.

    Cheers,

    Mark
    Nice. I like the On-One stuff too. E-mail or PM me through here if you have any other questions.

  108. #108
    jmw
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    I'd be willing....

    hey ssmike

    this bike has caused me to put my blinders on - this is the one for me, despite the other 29ers coming to the market soon.....so if you need another prototype test subject, feel free to send me a size med...

    I'll take the burden of testing the geared version
    future nature

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmw
    hey ssmike

    this bike has caused me to put my blinders on - this is the one for me, despite the other 29ers coming to the market soon.....so if you need another prototype test subject, feel free to send me a size med...

    I'll take the burden of testing the geared version
    LOL - the line forms to your left. We're working to get them ASAP. I'll post more info as I know it.
    Mike

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    LOL - the line forms to your left. We're working to get them ASAP. I'll post more info as I know it.
    Mike
    May I suggest getting the geared only version out first if there is a choice... there is a huge opportunity in that category for you guys to EXPLODE onto the 29er market. More so than a SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    May I suggest getting the geared only version out first if there is a choice... there is a huge opportunity in that category for you guys to EXPLODE onto the 29er market. More so than a SS.
    They both will be available at the same time. No difference getting either one faster than the other. Thanks for the info on the geared bike, though.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    They both will be available at the same time. No difference getting either one faster than the other. Thanks for the info on the geared bike, though.
    Awsome... when was the hoped released date again? I'm too lazy to back search thru all 100 or so of these posts... everyone is stoked. I sent an e-mail to you but I don't think it went thru. I'm computer illiterate
    Just got your email mike... thanks alot.. I can use a computer... chalk one up for the Connecticut school system!

  113. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    Awsome... when was the hoped released date again? I'm too lazy to back search thru all 100 or so of these posts... everyone is stoked. I sent an e-mail to you but I don't think it went thru. I'm computer illiterate
    Just got your email mike... thanks alot.. I can use a computer... chalk one up for the Connecticut school system!
    Countdown to August deliver.

  114. #114
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownBiker
    How much will one of those bad boys (girls) weigh in at? I've always been looking for a girl named Mary.
    I had the opportunity last week in Fruita to pick up Mike's prototype bike with rigid fork and it was light...very light.

  115. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    I had the opportunity last week in Fruita to pick up Mike's prototype bike with rigid fork and it was light...very light.
    Nat - you should have introduced yourself. As per my digital scale, my 20" sized bike weighs 24.1 lbs.

    It's funny, we were there specifically to provide demo bikes of our new 26" wheel bikes, but it felt like we fielded way more questions about the Mary bikes and even the Mary bars. Lots of people wanted to check out the Mary bars.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Geometry:

    There will be clearance for the new 2.55 tire. The boys in Mill Valley were kind enough to give me drawings for the new tire so I could ensure proper clearance.
    Damn. I was just about to finish my chainstay design and then I see this. Could you pass on that drawing or throw out some numbers?

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Nat - you should have introduced yourself.
    Actually I did. I was the guy who pounced upon you and Jill on Thursday afternoon when you pulled into the 18 Road trailhead. I had the On-One 29er and was parked a few cars away. We talked about Bend for a bit.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Lots of people wanted to check out the Mary bars.
    Hey I liked the full susser Mike even though the brakes levers were around the wrong way

    And Sky hogged the Mary

  119. #119
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    So the gear version has a regular BB and the single speed has a eccentric BB. Any chance of a sliding rear drop instead. I need all the weight savings I can get.
    Ride Faster Because I Can't

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownBiker
    So the gear version has a regular BB and the single speed has a eccentric BB. Any chance of a sliding rear drop instead. I need all the weight savings I can get.
    I know that not all sliding drops are created equal, but here was what Walt had to say about the Paragons:

    Paragon sliding dropouts

    October 25, 2005

    I just got a set in from Mark at Paragon. Here are my initial impressions:

    -They are heavy. We weighed a complete setup for both EBB (eccentric, shell, disc mount, breezer dropouts, disc crossbrace) and the Paragon sliders (dropouts, hardware, normal BB shell) and found that the difference was pretty minimal - 411 grams for the Paragon setup, 440 grams for the EBB. I kept hearing reports about how much lighter than an EBB this would end up being, but it looks like that's not really the case here. 30 grams, or about 1 ounce.
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  121. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownBiker
    So the gear version has a regular BB and the single speed has a eccentric BB. Any chance of a sliding rear drop instead. I need all the weight savings I can get.
    Nope. EBB it is. I did a poll quite a while back and the favorite was EBB. Slim Fast and expensive carbon and titanium bits

    Good info on the Paragon/EBB comparison.

  122. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby
    Damn. I was just about to finish my chainstay design and then I see this. Could you pass on that drawing or throw out some numbers?
    Think of a tire that is a couple mm under 60mm wide and around 750mm in diameter.

  123. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Actually I did. I was the guy who pounced upon you and Jill on Thursday afternoon when you pulled into the 18 Road trailhead. I had the On-One 29er and was parked a few cars away. We talked about Bend for a bit.
    Ahh, so that was you. Good to put a face to the name. How was the rest of your riding?

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Ahh, so that was you. Good to put a face to the name. How was the rest of your riding?
    The rest of the riding was great. I think we got a good sampler of what Fruita has to offer. I hope you had some good rides too.

  125. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    The rest of the riding was great. I think we got a good sampler of what Fruita has to offer. I hope you had some good rides too.
    We sure did. Did another ride at 18 Mile and took out some 160 travel 26" wheel prototyes out to Moore Fun.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    I know that not all sliding drops are created equal, but here was what Walt had to say about the Paragons:

    Paragon sliding dropouts

    October 25, 2005

    I just got a set in from Mark at Paragon. Here are my initial impressions:

    -They are heavy. We weighed a complete setup for both EBB (eccentric, shell, disc mount, breezer dropouts, disc crossbrace) and the Paragon sliders (dropouts, hardware, normal BB shell) and found that the difference was pretty minimal - 411 grams for the Paragon setup, 440 grams for the EBB. I kept hearing reports about how much lighter than an EBB this would end up being, but it looks like that's not really the case here. 30 grams, or about 1 ounce.
    And Walt prefers expanding type EBBs, which are generally heavier than pinch bolt or set screw EBBs. A light insert like the Niner would make it pretty much even.
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Countdown to August deliver.
    I've got an 18hr race the weekend of Aug 18th!!!......please hurry!!!

    oh yeah!! :7:
    future nature

  128. #128
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    question for SSMike

    Are we still looking at a price hovering around $400? That seemed to be the consensus (bad speller here) as I skimmed the 150 posts...LOL
    Now if you can only talk them into bringing back a cross bike
    And S. McGrath too

  129. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    Are we still looking at a price hovering around $400? That seemed to be the consensus (bad speller here) as I skimmed the 150 posts...LOL
    Now if you can only talk them into bringing back a cross bike
    And S. McGrath too
    Yep, both the geared and ss frameset should be around 4 bills. We'll have a cross bike - but under a different brand. And, yeah, I miss Shamoe - great guy.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Yep, both the geared and ss frameset should be around 4 bills. We'll have a cross bike - but under a different brand. And, yeah, I miss Shamoe - great guy.
    Yeah, a few years back you guys helped me out(frame deal and a jersey) racing thru the shop I was working at and he saw me struggling at Mt Snow when I ran out of water while he was walking part of the course... he met me at the feed zone with two bottles for me.. very few pros would do that for me

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    Yeah, a few years back you guys helped me out(frame deal and a jersey) racing thru the shop I was working at and he saw me struggling at Mt Snow when I ran out of water while he was walking part of the course... he met me at the feed zone with two bottles for me.. very few pros would do that for me
    Us McGrath's are kind like that. :wink5:

  132. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    Yeah, a few years back you guys helped me out(frame deal and a jersey) racing thru the shop I was working at and he saw me struggling at Mt Snow when I ran out of water while he was walking part of the course... he met me at the feed zone with two bottles for me.. very few pros would do that for me
    I like hearing stories about pro racers who go to those lengths to help out the average guys. Thanks.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    I like hearing stories about pro racers who go to those lengths to help out the average guys. Thanks.
    Just out of curiosity, how much did what happen with Shep (awsome guy too) influence you guys dropping the XC team?
    Maybe this isn't the place to answer that..

  134. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddre
    Just out of curiosity, how much did what happen with Shep (awsome guy too) influence you guys dropping the XC team?
    Maybe this isn't the place to answer that..
    Probably not the right place, but Shep's situation didn't have any effect on the team decision. Supporting a factory team is a monster expense. In the end, we went with individual frame sponsor deals this year with Cam Zink, Eric Porter, Cody Warren and JD Swaungen. But Shep is back with us being part of a team that takes our new suspension demo program on tour this summer.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    ...But Shep is back with us being part of a team that takes our new suspension demo program on tour this summer.
    I happened to meet Shep in Oakridge over the winter. Nice guy.
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  136. #136
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    Finally...

    ...a steel gear-specific 29er at a reasonable price!

    Great looking bike - I like both colours and have already started hassling the Oz distributors about it.

    One question though - why the downtube cable routing for the front and rear derailleurs? Any specific reason?

    Cheers.
    My LBS | Riding this and this

  137. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_N
    One question though - why the downtube cable routing for the front and rear derailleurs? Any specific reason?
    'Cause I like
    Seriously, it's my attempt to have a bit of nostalgia on the frame. I think top tubes on such simples frames look all junky with all that cabling.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    'Cause I like
    Seriously, it's my attempt to have a bit of nostalgia on the frame. I think top tubes on such simples frames look all junky with all that cabling.
    Agreed. Looks good.
    I wish people would stop making so many attractive/affordable 29'ers. It is getting hard to look away.
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  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    $1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.
    But the Cobia ain't steel!

  140. #140
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    OK guys.. the dust (or should we say mud) from Sea Otter has settled... We need more mary info...
    Mostly approx. frame weights and geometetries.
    Still August release?
    Still $400 ish? Thanks guys

  141. #141
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    today is August 6th, any news?
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarPigs
    today is August 6th, any news?
    Today is 5th August.

  143. #143
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    depends...

    Depends on which side of the dateline one lives...

    from WarPigs profile:
    From (City, State or Country):
    Singapore

    For him, it is 6 August!
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  144. #144
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    thanks slocaus.

    Singapore is +8 hours GMT.
    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

  145. #145
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    1) Will the rigid forks that come with either frameset be black or will they match the green or orange paint?

    2) Will the cross bike be a Masi? If so, please make it a frameset with a straight blade fork and panels...

  146. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    1) Will the rigid forks that come with either frameset be black or will they match the green or orange paint?

    2) Will the cross bike be a Masi? If so, please make it a frameset with a straight blade fork and panels...
    1. the rigid forks that come with either the green Mary XC frame or the ginger Mary SS fork will both be black.

    2. Yes. Yes, straight blade carbon but no panels. Of special note are the threaded barrel adjusters on the seat tube for front derailleur cable tuning and on the cable stop bridge for rear brake cable tension. Lots of clearance for up to 38c tires (I tried the 44 WTB tire and it just slightly touches the c/s - thought I had myself a 28" wheel bike too).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    1. the rigid forks that come with either the green Mary XC frame or the ginger Mary SS fork will both be black.

    2. Yes. Yes, straight blade carbon but no panels. Of special note are the threaded barrel adjusters on the seat tube for front derailleur cable tuning and on the cable stop bridge for rear brake cable tension. Lots of clearance for up to 38c tires (I tried the 44 WTB tire and it just slightly touches the c/s - thought I had myself a 28" wheel bike too).
    Ah, I thought for sure it would be steel...

  148. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Ah, I thought for sure it would be steel...
    That would have been my choice, but the guy who is in charge of the bikes wanted aluminum for it's weight to cost benefit. We will have your steel, paneled bike but it's fixed.
    Last edited by ssmike; 08-19-2006 at 07:34 AM.

  149. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    That would have been my choice, but the guy who is in charge of the bikes wanted aluminum for it's weight to cost benefit. We will have your steel, paneled bike but it's fixed.
    oops, wrong image.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  150. #150
    Glorified Hybrid Owner
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    Gorgeous!

    I really like the steel geared road frame too. It's been my wallpaper for a while now.

    Is the geared road frame available as a frameset?

  151. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Gorgeous!

    I really like the steel geared road frame too. It's been my wallpaper for a while now.

    Is the geared road frame available as a frameset?
    Unfortunately no. We did have a few of the steel/carbon frames available for a while, but I just checked and they are gone.

  152. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_N
    Great looking bike - I like both colours and have already started hassling the Oz distributors about it.
    Your hassling must have paid off, because they just ordered a bunch of Mary bikes.

  153. #153
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    Good job! Finally Here!

    We got out first 2 (18" & 20") SS Marys in today.

    All i can say is that this is the very best way that i can think of spending less than a grand on a bike.

    Very Very smooth.

    Kinda weird bar but otherwise a superb setup.

    A little bit heavy but a solid and easy way to try singlesppeding and 29ering all at once.

    I SO don't need one but I bet I will get one.

    I bet these 2 will be gone in a week!

    Peas!

    J from NJ
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  154. #154
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    I test rode an SS tonight at my LBS. LOVED the frame, rigid fork, and overall feel of the bike. Just wasn't so sure about the handlebar. I think I would throw a standard riser bar on there. The Mary bar felt a little too wide.

    Now I just have to wait for them to get the geared version in so I can pick one up!

    Quick question though. Is the Reba fork not even an option on the SS anymore? I thought that the rigid fork was just an option, but the guys at the shop said you can't get it any other way.

  155. #155
    SP Singletrack rocks
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    I got these from anotehr thread in this forum



    Since the past 2 week have been great on the shift R5 I may be looking at the green one next year. YOu can never have to many bikes.

  156. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by rattmobbins
    I test rode an SS tonight at my LBS. LOVED the frame, rigid fork, and overall feel of the bike. Just wasn't so sure about the handlebar. I think I would throw a standard riser bar on there. The Mary bar felt a little too wide.

    Now I just have to wait for them to get the geared version in so I can pick one up!

    Quick question though. Is the Reba fork not even an option on the SS anymore? I thought that the rigid fork was just an option, but the guys at the shop said you can't get it any other way.

    Nice!. We have the geared Mary XC bikes in stock.

    A Reba was never an option on the SS bike. It was always rigid. It is suspension corrected for a Reba 80mm, though.

  157. #157
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    What is the axle-to-crown length on the rigid fork?

  158. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    What is the axle-to-crown length on the rigid fork?
    472mm

  159. #159
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Framesets?

    How much longer until the framesets will be available? Just wonderin', ya know..........
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  160. #160

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    When I checked Friday, it was end of this month - wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Are you going to be in Vegas, G-T?

  161. #161
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    Look out Sin City!

    Yep! I'll be there working with The Blue Collar MTB crew and specifically on 29"er stuff for their Twenty Nine Inches site. I'm getting there late on Tuesday night.

    If you are going to be there I'd love to stop by and chat with you guys about the Mary line up and 29"ers.
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  162. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Yep! I'll be there working with The Blue Collar MTB crew and specifically on 29"er stuff for their Twenty Nine Inches site. I'm getting there late on Tuesday night.

    If you are going to be there I'd love to stop by and chat with you guys about the Mary line up and 29"ers.
    I'll most definitely be there. Stop by or leave a message where you'll be - or e-mail me with a time we can meet at our booth.

  163. #163
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    Mary SS BB Question???????????

    I noticed yesterday that on the Mary, the Ecentric may allow for 2 different bottom bracket heights based on which way you spin it. (up or down) The bike was built up in the higher of the 2 setting from the factory. I sold the bike and it went out the door this way. (I hoped that the factory settings could be trusted).

    Is there a setting that the bike was designed to be ridden in?

    On my Seven ss I have an ecentric bb and I have always ridden it with the bb lower to the ground. I can't imagine running it in the higher position. The saddle would need to be a bunch higher. This would also gain more pedal clearance which I don't need.


    Any thoughts?

    Thanks

    J_
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  164. #164
    SpoK Werks Handmade Goods
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    EBB question..

    Quote Originally Posted by jdog
    I noticed yesterday that on the Mary, the Ecentric may allow for 2 different bottom bracket heights based on which way you spin it. (up or down) The bike was built up in the higher of the 2 setting from the factory. I sold the bike and it went out the door this way. (I hoped that the factory settings could be trusted).

    Is there a setting that the bike was designed to be ridden in?

    On my Seven ss I have an ecentric bb and I have always ridden it with the bb lower to the ground. I can't imagine running it in the higher position. The saddle would need to be a bunch higher. This would also gain more pedal clearance which I don't need.
    J_
    I run mine up/down depending on my mood. Sometimes I want a little more clearance and others, I want more stability. To me, you spend so much time standing on a mountain bike that the difference in EBB height really doesn't bother me that much. Of course, I always found the same in terms of a USE seatpost vs. the 'nut cutter' scissor type. ;-)

  165. #165
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    been riding Mary for 3 weeks now

    and it is absolutely incredible. Ive been riding ss for a few years now, but this is my first 29er steal rigid. Was a bit concerned about riding a rigid fork but after a few weeks of riding, I think I will keep it as is. Still up in the air about the mary bars but all in all a great bike for the money, totally satisfied.

    Hey Jay, you talking about my bb?

    walter

  166. #166
    bhc
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    walter

    Did you get a chance to see or test ride the XC where you purchased your SS?

  167. #167
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    nope

    [QUOTE=bhc]walter

    Did you get a chance to see or test ride the XC where you purchased your SS?[/QUOT

    as far as I know, all they had at the time was one of each size of the mary ss, but the gearie wasnt even a thought for me, so i didnt ask if they were available

    walter

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by walter
    and it is absolutely incredible. Ive been riding ss for a few years now, but this is my first 29er steal rigid. Was a bit concerned about riding a rigid fork but after a few weeks of riding, I think I will keep it as is. Still up in the air about the mary bars but all in all a great bike for the money, totally satisfied.

    Hey Jay, you talking about my bb?

    walter

    Hey Walter,

    Hope you are digging the bike more and more. I wasn't actually talking bout your bike. But since I am always on the hunt for the best info I thought this might be a good spot to find it. I figured that no one at Haro would be around this week since it is the week of the bike show.

    I sold a guy a Mary ss the other day and he wouldn't even try the bars. I swapped them out for some risers. Bad news for him since they are going on my Seven today. I have to try them.

    As for the ridgid deal I think that with exactly the same setup in 26" it might be rough but the 29" setup seems to smooth it all out.

    J_
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  169. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdog
    I noticed yesterday that on the Mary, the Ecentric may allow for 2 different bottom bracket heights based on which way you spin it. (up or down) The bike was built up in the higher of the 2 setting from the factory. I sold the bike and it went out the door this way. (I hoped that the factory settings could be trusted).

    Is there a setting that the bike was designed to be ridden in?

    On my Seven ss I have an ecentric bb and I have always ridden it with the bb lower to the ground. I can't imagine running it in the higher position. The saddle would need to be a bunch higher. This would also gain more pedal clearance which I don't need.


    Any thoughts?

    Thanks

    J_
    You know, I never instructed the factory to put the crank in the up or down position. Regardless, you can change it to the up or down position without adding or taking out links. I run mine in the down position, but if you have a lot of rocks/roots, you could ride it up for more clearance.

  170. #170
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    Thanks for the feedback.

    I have been setting them up in the low position since the clearance should be good without a big ring.

    I have been very happy with the response this bike has brought. I have sold 4 in the last 2 weeks. I have not seen any of the XC version yet but I think the SS will be stronger.

    I have decided to put one into demo rotation this week. I was surprised that Haro did not offer an incentive for shops to promote this bike via demos.

    J_
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  171. #171
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    Hey jay

    quick question, where the down tube meets the bb shell, there are two allen bolts, do these keep the ebb in place, or are they drain holes, I think I saw somewhere that some frames have holes in the bb to allow water out. Did a late day at hartshorne yesterday, got my ass kicked.

    walter

  172. #172
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    These bolts hold the ecentric in place. If you loosen them both you can spin the whole unit. You will need a spanner that will fit in the to small holes in the side to add chain tension. (careful not to overtension the chain) You might play with spinning that thing around 180 degrees for a 2nd optional bb height.

    As for Hartshorne, I walk less and less of it each time on the Single speed. If you want I can get you a larger rear cog to play with.

    I actually heard from a couple of guys that a Haro Mary was spotted there. You can run but you can't hide I guess.

    Are you still riding the Mary Handlebars??



    I am getting a 18" ss for a Demo this week so if you know anyone around that wants to test one out let me know.

    peas

    J_
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

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    How much did you guys pay for yours?

    I'm looking to possibly get a mary xc but the local dealer in WV says he doesn't have a price list or info to order one yet. How much did you guys pay for yours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdog
    You will need a spanner that will fit in the to small holes in the side to add chain tension.
    You can also use an allen key in one of the holes and then use the crank arm to move the allen key one way or the other to tension the chain if you don't have a pin spanner.

  175. #175
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    thanks for the input

    I know I have said this a bunch of times already, but i couldnt be happier with my mary ss, an incredible buy for the money. I switch bikes like I switch underwear, and I think this may be the bike that stays in the stable for a long time, job well done Haro and many thanks again to Jason at Halters in N.J. for all his help.

    Hey jay, did you ever end up with the marys on the seven, what are your thoughts on them? I sometimes contemplate taking my risers and my o/s raceface off my flow then I think to myself that I kinda like the marys.

    Anyway, another question for you guys. Is it possible that a steel fork would flex more than an aluminum? this in my first time with a steel fork in real bike riding applications and the other day, under hard, downhill switchback braking, I swear the spokes were rubbing on the red dial of the avid brake caliper. Is it possible or just normal vibration?

    Again, no big deal, still totally satisfied with mary.

    Hey jay, what f/s bikes do you have in the demo rotation?

    I love you Mary
    walter

  176. #176
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    Hey Walt,

    Glad that you are still digging the Mary.

    The steel fork will flex more than any other.. (I think). The carbon Pace might dampen vibrations better but I think the steel should flex more.

    Let me look at that front wheel. It could be wheel flex as much as anything else.

    I have not tried the bar yet. I will be out in the woods on a Mary ss for the 1st time in the next few days.


    We did a all singlespeed nite ride last night at 6 mile. I will let you know if we do it again.

    As for demos, I will shortly have a C-dale 2007 Rush 4 in a med and a Hary Mary 29er ss in an 18".

    I think that I will have a Mary xc in the shop for sale late this week. I am amped to see that bike as well.

    peas

    J
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  177. #177
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    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Haro Bikes
    You can also use an allen key in one of the holes and then use the crank arm to move the allen key one way or the other to tension the chain if you don't have a pin spanner.

    That is a good trick. I could have used that a few times. DUH.

    J
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  178. #178
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    Let me know

    Quote Originally Posted by jdog
    Hey Walt,

    Glad that you are still digging the Mary.

    The steel fork will flex more than any other.. (I think). The carbon Pace might dampen vibrations better but I think the steel should flex more.

    Let me look at that front wheel. It could be wheel flex as much as anything else.

    I have not tried the bar yet. I will be out in the woods on a Mary ss for the 1st time in the next few days.


    We did a all singlespeed nite ride last night at 6 mile. I will let you know if we do it again.

    As for demos, I will shortly have a C-dale 2007 Rush 4 in a med and a Hary Mary 29er ss in an 18".

    I think that I will have a Mary xc in the shop for sale late this week. I am amped to see that bike as well.

    peas

    J

    I am off till tuesday so it would be great if i could hook up with you guys regardless of where you are riding.

    let me know
    walter

  179. #179

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    The mary bar rocks I have been riding one all season on my monkey glad haro speced it on the mary ss

  180. #180
    Bud
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    Oh, so much Mary love in this thread! I've only got one ride under my belt on it but it was through every inch of Mercer and by the end I was clearing everything in my path. [MARY SMASH!] However, my hands hurt pretty badly afterwards. I think I was just gripping a lot tighter that I was used to on my giant.
    Regarding the bars, since I'm not completely used to them yet I saw someone's monocog on the forums and he had the mary bar flipped, moustache style. I tried it, putting the spacers back underneath and it feels pretty good. I have to see how it is on the trails, maybe 6 mile on sunday morning before the Eagles/Dallas game.

  181. #181
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    flipped your marys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bud
    Oh, so much Mary love in this thread! I've only got one ride under my belt on it but it was through every inch of Mercer and by the end I was clearing everything in my path. [MARY SMASH!] However, my hands hurt pretty badly afterwards. I think I was just gripping a lot tighter that I was used to on my giant.
    Regarding the bars, since I'm not completely used to them yet I saw someone's monocog on the forums and he had the mary bar flipped, moustache style. I tried it, putting the spacers back underneath and it feels pretty good. I have to see how it is on the trails, maybe 6 mile on sunday morning before the Eagles/Dallas game.
    you mean so the grips are facing forward and it looks like a w? I've had my mary just about a month now and all I can say is it is an incredible ride. I dont know if its the geometry of the bike or if the exiwolfs are that good of tires, but yeasterday I was at Allaire riding the tight singletrack in the back by the golf course, and I thought to myself, "this f'ing thing doesnt stop moving forward". I was practically standing still out of the saddle, going uphill, body weight on the peadals, waiting for the back tire to spin out, and I think I heard the bike say, " if you got the energy to spin the cranks, we'll get up this hill".

    Anyway, you'll get the chance to love mary as I have, many thanks again to Jason at Halters in nj.

    walter

  182. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by walter
    you mean so the grips are facing forward and it looks like a w? I've had my mary just about a month now and all I can say is it is an incredible ride. I dont know if its the geometry of the bike or if the exiwolfs are that good of tires, but yeasterday I was at Allaire riding the tight singletrack in the back by the golf course, and I thought to myself, "this f'ing thing doesnt stop moving forward". I was practically standing still out of the saddle, going uphill, body weight on the peadals, waiting for the back tire to spin out, and I think I heard the bike say, " if you got the energy to spin the cranks, we'll get up this hill".

    Anyway, you'll get the chance to love mary as I have, many thanks again to Jason at Halters in nj.

    walter

    I think he's talking about turning the bars updside down. If you look at the Mary bary it has some rise. Basically, he's talking about running them in the down position so the name on the bars reads upside down from in front of the bike.

    (and it's the bike - seriously, though, really glad you are enjoying the ride! )
    Last edited by Haro Bikes; 10-06-2006 at 04:03 PM.

  183. #183
    Bud
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    ^^^^ Yep, upside down like a road bar.

  184. #184
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    I'm considering one of these to race next season for various reasons and i have a few questions. How much does it weigh (frame alone and complete bike)? Price on the frame and complete bike? And finally, can i demo one @ Noble Canyon?
    Kidding on the last one... (sorta)
    Also, if my shop was to order one, is there any kind of wait? (he's a Haro dealer in San Diego) I was told there was a bit of a backorder on them.
    Still not 100% on one though... i just dumped a bunch of weight on my P.U.S.S. and i'm not in a hurry to get on another heavy bike (if they are).

  185. #185
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    ok

    [QUOTE=Bud]^^^^ Yep, upside down like a road bar.


    that sounds better

    walter

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISuckAtRiding
    I'm considering one of these to race next season for various reasons and i have a few questions. How much does it weigh (frame alone and complete bike)? Price on the frame and complete bike? And finally, can i demo one @ Noble Canyon?
    Kidding on the last one... (sorta)
    Also, if my shop was to order one, is there any kind of wait? (he's a Haro dealer in San Diego) I was told there was a bit of a backorder on them.
    Still not 100% on one though... i just dumped a bunch of weight on my P.U.S.S. and i'm not in a hurry to get on another heavy bike (if they are).
    The frame weighs about 5.5 lbs for an 18" size. MSRP on the SS is about $900; $1400 for the XC. Frames will be about $400 with a crmo fork. If you want to demo one, have your shop contact us. Since you are local, we can arrange to have the outside rep take one to your shop. They are in stock!

  187. #187
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    Tuesday PM..

    Tuesday Pm at 7:30 we will be doing another night ride at 6 mile.

    We had 7 guys last Tuesday and 5 were on singlespeeds!

    Supefun!!

    4 of us had HID lights so the guys with lesser lights got between the uber lights and were fine.


    I now have a DEMO Mary SS 18". Yep!


    J_
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhilljill
    The frame weighs about 5.5 lbs for an 18" size. MSRP on the SS is about $900; $1400 for the XC. Frames will be about $400 with a crmo fork. If you want to demo one, have your shop contact us. Since you are local, we can arrange to have the outside rep take one to your shop. They are in stock!
    Thanks for the quick reply.
    I just looked at the specs on this page and i think it would be a better choice to go with the geared version since i was planning on going with the reba anyways, and at my cost it shouldnt be too much more. Plus i'll have the option of SS or geared and i think the component package was a decent choice.
    Are the geared ones out as well? I think i may have a chat with my shop to see if i can score one

  189. #189
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    Hey Jay,HB, and Downhilljill,

    you guys getting anymore feedback on the marys that have sold yet?

    walter

  190. #190
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    My feedback..

    Hey Walter,

    I just took out the Mary Shop Demo today.


    First off this bike rides more like a $2500 bike than a $850 bike.

    The tires roll nice and fast yet they grip like a super knobby 26". I made a muddy climb that I often slip out on with my ss 26" bike. I would like to try the Hutchinson 29" Python when they are ready. That should be a super setup.

    The wheels felt solid and light enough.

    I didn't love the bars. I think they are cool but I prefer the Eason Monkey lite carbon paired with the Magnesium Ergon Grips/Barends. I missed this combo for certain.

    The cranks fel very solid. The gearing was a mystery. At times I felt that it was too easy and at times it was too hard. I guess it was just different than the 33x18 that I run on my 26".


    The fork was OK. I missed the Headshock that I have on my seven. The steering was good but since it has been forever since I rode a ridgid fork.. well it was ridgid. I started with 40 PSI in both tires. By the end of the ride I was more like 30 or less in the front. I didn't dare let any out of the rear. This is the first NON tubeless bike I have ridden in a long time. I think that UST for 29" is sorely needed!


    The bb clearance was great. That is certainly due to the 29" setup. I had the bb in the lower of the 2 possible positions. It would be too high in the higher position.. I think.

    I liked the WTB saddle but I still prefer the Fizik Alliante.

    The one hill (sort of) that i rode down, I was really in awe of how fast it seemed to roll. This has been my experice on all 29ers. The just go downhill better.. I can imagine that a 29" DH bike would rip??


    Overall: Great way to test 29" and SS. Really a steal at this price. MUCH better bike than the 29" Moncog and maybe better than the Karate Monkey. (for my taste).

    I wonder what it would ride like with a Pace Carbon Ridgid fork?? Anyone tried??


    I think that if I was going to make this bike my own I would do the following:

    Easton 31.8 Carbon Monkeylit bars
    EC70 Carbon Stem
    Ergon Mag Grips/Bar ends
    Ec70 Carbon Post
    King HS
    Perhaps a 19t rear cog.
    Fizik Alliante Saddle

    Fork?? Something else.. Not sure what. I thought suspension for sure for the 1st 1/2 of the ride but by the end it was the bars that I wanted to change the most.

    All that being said I might as well buy a frame and start from scratch??
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  191. #191
    Bud
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    Rode 6 mile yesterday with the Mary and had a blast. I thought the gearing was good - only topped out a few times on flats running along some fields but I felt like I could really shoot out of slow corners and get back to speed quickly. Like jdog said, I was suprised at the grip of the back tire going up muddy steep climbs. I was standing half the time and it didn't slip. I liked the bars better in the down position as well.
    Other highlights included getting my left shin bashed from the platforms (Azonic Mtn X's), getting my right ankle bashed from some hidden log/stump, and nearly running over a fast moving groundhog.

  192. #192
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    Hey Bud,

    I saw your subie and 2 other black cars when I got there at 10. I rode about 15 miles but never saw you guys.. I figure that you must have ridden every inch of the place.

    I saw 3 goofy hunters scouting for deer about 1/4 mile from the car. They are making this deer trap with all kinds of apples, carrots and corn all over the place. Not too sporting in my book.

    Anyway I am glad that you are digging the bike. Spread the word that I have an 18" demo Mary ss for anyone who does not belive the hype.

    Maybe I will catch up to you guys soon.

    J
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  193. #193
    Bud
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    Ha, you must have been right behind us...we went in at about 9:30. I led too which makes me feel good about my pace. Yeah, we rode all the way to the D&R canal. We hoped there was more to ride but just ended up taking a nice pedal up and down the tow path like some real sunday riders. We must have looked like idiots, all covered in mud and riding the tow path.
    Was the hill you were talking about a few posts ago the little bit coming back east right before So. Middlebush Rd? That was too much fun.
    Anyways, go check out the demo people! You can ride it around the home depot parking lot like a madman!

  194. #194
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    You guys most likely missed some sections of trail. Keep looking.

    J
    ..I'd rather be a headlight on a northbound train..

  195. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by walter
    you guys getting anymore feedback on the marys that have sold yet?

    walter
    So far it's all really good! Thanks.

  196. #196
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    my marys

    Quote Originally Posted by Haro Bikes
    So far it's all really good! Thanks.
    have been good on both of my bikes for a while. i have used them since onone started selling them. the ones on my new mary ss are just as good. the rigid fork aint bad either. i thought i would hate it, i was wrong. travel isnt needed in my neck of the woods.not with big wheels.
    Three old guys are out walking.


    First one says, "Windy, isn't it?"

    Second one says, "No, it's Thursday!"

    Third one says, "So am I. Let's go get a beer."

  197. #197
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    Chunky Mary

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Nat - you should have introduced yourself. As per my digital scale, my 20" sized bike weighs 24.1 lbs..
    A production Mary SS at my LBS was 28 lb. on their shop scale
    So the Mary is no lighter than the $470 Monocog... Hmmm.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrigg
    A production Mary SS at my LBS was 28 lb. on their shop scale
    So the Mary is no lighter than the $470 Monocog... Hmmm.

    eccentric bb, disk brakes, better all around components, for 400 more than a monocog, you are getting a much better bike

  199. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by shrigg
    A production Mary SS at my LBS was 28 lb. on their shop scale
    So the Mary is no lighter than the $470 Monocog... Hmmm.
    Hmmm is right. However, my Mary is a bit more decked out that the production/stock Mary with Thomson post and stem, ti railed seat, carbon fork, WTB Laser disc lite hubs, Nano rear tire, XT crankset w/o guard.

  200. #200
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    Mary Sightings

    3 out at Allaire State Park today - all Single Speeds - including mine. Great bike and a great place to ride one! Anyone thinking about one should jump on it!

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