Chain stuck in Haro Xeon S + Support issues (or NO support)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    Chain stuck in Haro Xeon S + Support issues (or NO support)

    Hi,

    I have problems with my chain (chain suck, chain line Ö call it as you feel).
    It happens mostly during descends, when ever it happens I cant proceed pedaling and must stop the riding and to release the chain (stuck between the small wheel and the body) which can take more than few minutes and escorted with physical strength.
    Iím in dilemma since I love the bike but very frustrated from the problem which influencing my ride enjoyment.

    The bikes are one year old and the local dealer is notified over the situation but ignore my appeals (I want to another store so he will check my chain and gears and found no problem).
    I wrote to Jill Hamilton MTB/Adult Bike Brand Manager Haro Bicycle Corporation without real success (no answers for my questions).

    Is this Haro international policy regarding already existing customers ???


    Daniel

  2. #2

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    getting a chain guide that still allows you to use your gears, this is the easiest/best fix.

  3. #3

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    chain guide

    I thought over this option.
    I never had chain guide and donít know the influences it have.
    How do I know which chain guide is best for my bike ?

  4. #4

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    go to a bike shop and ask them what is best for your style of riding, a two, three, or one ring guide. Also compare the weights and prices of some in your shop and see which fits your riding style best.

  5. #5
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    Are you sure that have exhausted all of your options at the shop where you purchased the bike? How many times have you been back? Have they contacted Haro on your behalf?

    Another option would be to find even another shop. Ask around to find out which is the absolutely the best with full suspension bikes. Even if you have to travel very far, hopefully they can and will help you. When you get there, offer to pay whatever it will take to get to the root of the problem. There is something going on with your particular bike. I ride a Sonix and have never dropped the chain. In the states, it would be appropriate to show up with a six pack of really good beer.

    BTW, it is almost impossible to diagnose something like this w/o having the bike in a repair stand. There is no way that Haro can help you w/o taking it to the shop. If the shop is unwilling to contact Haro, that really sucks.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  6. #6
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    A lot of times this is caused by staying in the granny gear. If that isn't the problem, let us know they type of riding you do then I am sure there will be some suggestions on which chainguide you should get. I run a 1x8 on my Escape and on my spec. bighit, and it is plenty of gear for me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher32x
    I run a 1x8 on my Escape and on my spec. bighit, and it is plenty of gear for me.
    Same here, but my Escape is about ready to go single speed and solid axel. X-7 = 1X also, I asked about a SD race here in Oregon and wether 1 up front would hinder but since I'm not trying to win I'll just hop off and throw the chain onto the granny gear.....

  8. #8
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    Daniel,

    I have forwarded your concerns on to our Isreali distributor. From what I understand from Adi in their warranty department, they have indicated that they found no issues with your bike after replacing your BB and cranks. He also indicated in his e-mail that he's available to help you at any time...have you tried contacting him again? You know I have not ignored your requests for help as I have been in contact with you.

    Like b.ray has pointed out, this is a difficult problem to diagnose without having the bike here in a stand in front of us. This is why we rely on our dealers and distributors to be our eyes in situations.

    You cannot run a chain guide on a Xeon. Plus, that's a band-aid approach to some other issue with your bike.

  9. #9

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    Hi Jill and friends,

    I think that my frustration now is mainly over the ignore I am getting from Adi the local dealer (I left him message on his mobile, 2 SMS messages and few Emails).
    Since I wrote to you, Adi contacted a friend of mine and my mechanic and promised them to contact me and to take the bike for a ride (until now it didnít happen).
    Some thing I noticed especially after "Cypher32x" mentioned is that the chin stuck mostly when I'm staying in the granny gear (not always).
    I was suggested in local forums to put chain guide (hoped it will solve the problem).
    I did took my bike to two different places (well known) and described my problem
    They could not find any visible problem.
    I'm attaching few pictures I took 1 month ago of the damage causing the chain stuck and release.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    From looking at the pics are you running a 2X9 setup and a bash ring? If you are have you shortened the chain?

    On my xeon I found this necessary so that theres more tension on the chain. It rarely comes off and if I know theres a big rock garden coming up on a dh track I shift up the casette a bit to give it more tension.

  11. #11
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    My chain suck was due to worn front and rear chain rings.
    It's not an adventure until someone BLEEDS!

  12. #12
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    Hey Daneil,

    It looks like you are running aftermarket cranks on your bike. The stock Xeon S came with Truvativ Stylo cranks that were Mirror black, it looks like you have Shimano XT.

    The Shimano crank will work but I would check your Chain Line it looks really far off. I can tell from the picture with your bash ring almost touching the swing arm. I have a set of XT cranks on my Xeon and they work perfectly. Please take your bike back to the shop and make sure you have a 51mm chainline on your bike.

  13. #13
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    This same thing has happened on my Sonix LT, and it frustrates the hell out of me!

  14. #14
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    Chain length & Chain line

    I just came across this thread while searching, and think I can help.

    It was touched on in the thread but not explained fully.

    Your issue seems to have 2 separate causes.

    1. You have too much chain slack. Any time you go to a smaller max front chainring, (ie:44t to 32t) you must shorten the chain length using the "big ring to big cog" method. Basically this means placing the chain around the largest front ring, and back around the largest rear cog, pulling it tight to determine your new chain length. For a detailed explanation search for "chain length" (use the quote marks when searching)

    2. Your chainline is incorrect. Chainline is the measurement from the middle ring (on a triple crankset) or outer ring (on a double/bash) to the center of the seat tube. The Xeon was designed to have a 51mm chainline. I can't tell what crankset you are using, but I can see that it doesn't have the correct chainline. Some bikes, and some cranksets are very chainline specific. For example: most (if not all) of the older Shimano OCTALINK cranksets have a 47.5 chainline. If you had one of those, you also had to use the correct Bottom bracket for that specific model, or your chainline would be even less than that. NOT GOOD!! Your Xeon needs a crankset with a 51mm chainline. The only ones that I'm sure are 51mm are Truvativ models with OUTBOARD BEARINGS. (Firex, Stylo, Hussefelt, Holzfeller) The last two, you must use with a HOWITZER 51mm Bottom bracket (XR or Team). Someone else may know of other crankset/BB setups that will give you a 51mm chainline, or you can research that yourself. I believe that the newer shimano cranksets are 50mm, but PatSS says it works. If you are using an older Octalink crankset you will continue to have problems.

    Hope this isn't too late to help.
    Last edited by chanorama; 07-06-2008 at 04:01 AM.
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  15. #15

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    my xeon is almost brand new and it tosses the chain too and gets stuck. have to get off the bike and kick the pedal backwards to get it to release. put a nice deep gouge in my swingarm. scuffed my paint. but i chalked it up to the cables stretching and the bike being out of adjustment as i was on my first week of riding. it also only threw the chain when i was doing a downhill in a tall gear, then hitting an uphill and downshifting really fast to like a 1-3 gear and the chain slacks really fast. im just gonna be more careful with my shifts and make them smoother and work my way down the spectrum as i get to a hill.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by team510
    my xeon is almost brand new and it tosses the chain too and gets stuck.
    -
    -
    A brand new bike isn't a guarantee that your chain isn't too long. New bikes all too often come with improper length cables, chains, or just tuned poorly. It sounds like your issue could be caused by improper chain length.

    If you like to wrench on your bike, invest in a chain tool, and some Sram gold (9spd) powerlinks. I say Powerlinks meaning one on the chain, and several for spares. They come in very handy.

    I'm an advocate of educated DIY. First do your research & educate yourself, buy the proper tools, then make it happen. It is very satisfying to not have to depend on or pay someone else for your bike maintenance, or upgrades.
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  17. #17
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    I have been riding a 2006 Sonix VL120, and have now given up on the fight with the bike and won't buy Haro again. I have been in touch with their customer support and they have not helped >at all<. I have blown at least 6 (middle 32 tooth) chainrings and 9 chains with this bike in 2 years and 2,000 mountain only miles.

    I like the way that Haro handles, and performs but this problem sprouts up every time the trail gets the slightest bit wet or muddy. Like anyone, I try and stay off a muddy trail to lessen my impact, but there are times it can't be avoided.

    When hard climbs reduce me to the small chainring, and conditions are wet, sand and mud pile up on the lower rear swing arm, begin to fall into the chain, destroys lubrication in the chain itself, and creates a chain-suck that jambs the chain in between the frame and the front cluster. The middle ring seems to take the most damage and bends and/or breaks teeth. Obviously this is happening under hard cranking, and therefore seems to cause even more damage. Part of why this occurs is the super-tight clearance on the back edge of the front cluster and the frame. Had Haro added some distance there, this probably would never occur.

    As for their customer service, it isn't service at all. I was told that my choice in tires was most likely the problem. WTB Motos 2.24. I was given ZERO option from Haro to try and make this problem right, and would recommend to anyone looking to purchase a 2006, or 2007 VL120 watch out! You want to ride in dry only conditions, it will probably work fine, just be aware of this design problem.

    Going for the Santa Cruz Superlight. Picking it up this week.

    bye Haro, it's been a struggle, I wont miss you!
    *** ride it again!

  18. #18

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    LOL, what does this have to do with this thread? I dont see how this is haro's problem at all. Haro doesnt make those components and sounds like your own doings at breaking things. Haro has pretty darn good custmer service.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cal63look
    LOL, what does this have to do with this thread? I dont see how this is haro's problem at all. Haro doesnt make those components and sounds like your own doings at breaking things. Haro has pretty darn good custmer service.
    You did not read what I wrote. It is not the component failure that steers me away from the bike, it's the design problem with the frame that causes these repeated failures. Maybe read it again. btw, it's exactly what this thread is about... chain jamming between the frame and the front cluster, look at the original post, and others!
    *** ride it again!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    I have been riding a 2006 Sonix VL120, and have now given up on the fight with the bike and won't buy Haro again. I have been in touch with their customer support and they have not helped
    That's a bummer to hear. I am sorry if you feel you haven't recieved the support you deserve. At Haro we pride ourself on treating the customer the way they should be treated, and making things right with the consumer. Is there any chance of you letting me try to help you out? I would be more than happy to walk through your setup and help you trouble shoot your problem. If you could send me some photos of your setup and chainline measurement and I can help you make your bike perform the way you want it too.

    Please give me a chance to make things right with you before you sell your bike and move on.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatSS
    That's a bummer to hear. I am sorry if you feel you haven't recieved the support you deserve. At Haro we pride ourself on treating the customer the way they should be treated, and making things right with the consumer. Is there any chance of you letting me try to help you out? I would be more than happy to walk through your setup and help you trouble shoot your problem. If you could send me some photos of your setup and chainline measurement and I can help you make your bike perform the way you want it too.

    Please give me a chance to make things right with you before you sell your bike and move on.

    Yeah, this is a bummer, because I got nothing but finger pointing at me, and never did I think that your customer support believed what I was saying about this problem. I have been through it all with set-up, and nothing changes this problem. I am not selling the Haro at this point, but will use it for a 2nd bike when necessary.

    Like I mentioned, the problem is a constant that repeatedly destroys itself whenever I find myself in wet conditions. 32T front chain rings cost about $35 from Race Face, and I just replaced another a month ago, that makes 6 total that I have replaced on this bike, and the last chain was almost $50 that I had to replace at the same time too. (9 total chains)

    I appreciate your efforts here and am surprised that there is someone at Haro that cares at all after the conversations that I have had about this. Everything that I described above, I was always told that it was my fault for too big of tires. That response is just ridiculous, as the problem has not gotten any better or worse since I replaced the stock WTB Exiwolf 2.1's.

    I cannot see an acceptable resolution to this problem short of a different frame that has expanded clearance between the rear swing arm and the front chainrings. I had even asked before if Haro had since produced a rear swing arm that had been extended, AND would fit my existing VL120. Even a different model, color, etc. would be fine, as long as the clearance could handle chain suck without getting wedged/jammed in between the frame and the front chainrings. Short answer was no.

    As for making things right, Haro has completely blown this for me and I have already gone to a Santa Cruz Superlight. <That> single pivot design has one very important difference in my view, there seems to be no possible way to jam the chain into the frame, and is what sold me on their design.

    I ride a lot, and if the Haro design could hold up in this area, I would buy the brand again.... The way the VL120 design overall handles has been fine, just can't see having to spend nearly $100 to fix the Haro every time it rains or gets the slightest bit muddy.

    This is a design problem, wouldn't you agree?
    *** ride it again!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    I cannot see an acceptable resolution to this problem short of a different frame that has expanded clearance between the rear swing arm and the front chainrings.
    This could have been a likely outcome (new frame). Sadly you have moved on to greener fields, Maybe next time you could considor Haro for another bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    This is a design problem, wouldn't you agree?
    I would not agree, since this has only happened on bikes with an improper setup.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatSS
    This could have been a likely outcome (new frame). Sadly you have moved on to greener fields, Maybe next time you could considor Haro for another bike.
    So let me get this straight... I found lack of support at Haro, so I ended up buying a different brand, then you ask me how you can make this right, yet now being told I don't have the "right" new bike to be supported on this product? I am keeping the bike, so you should still make the problem right in my opinion. I was a fan of this product until I started riding from time to time in wet conditions.

    A few pics of my set-up.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    *** ride it again!

  24. #24
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    Where is the wear in relation to the crank arm? What type of chain lube are you using?? Have you tried a different brand chain???
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Where is the wear in relation to the crank arm? What type of chain lube are you using?? Have you tried a different brand chain???
    Hi there dogonfr,

    You are missing my point, the chain and 32T ring are being destroyed no matter how clean/well lubricated I keep the chain.

    This is how it seems to go....

    1. Mud/sand on the trail gets piled on the lower flat surface on the rear swing arm.
    2. Mud/sand piled on the lower arm over time gets pushed into the chain.
    3. Chain begins to lose its lubrication and binds in spots causing chain suck.
    4. Chain suck becomes bad enough that it creeps up in between the frame and the front chainrings.

    I have tried 4 different chain brands, and 2 different crank types, and still no change.

    In the third picture you can see the wear behind the 32T (middle) chainring on the frame. When I pull the crank, it looks really bad on the frame.

    I am using Park Tools CL-1, and Phil Woods "Tenacious Oil" depending on conditions. Again, the problem does seem not dependent on any factors, or combinations of factors that change the outcome. Ride this VL120 in the wet, snow, mud, wet sand, and you risk ruining the middle chainring and the chain.

    This has to be the most ridiculous problem ever experienced on a mountain bike, with no help from the manufacturer!
    *** ride it again!

  26. #26
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    Catching your point. I had a Marin Team Issue that would suck chain found the problem was due to set up but i'm scraping my brain to remember. The Phil Woods lube sounds like a magnet to debris from the trail. The Park Tool seems to be Teflon base which usually is less sticky so it tends to maintain a better lube with minimal debris stickshion.

    It's interesting that the teeth you picture are worn before and after the sprocket support finger.

    Can you post a picture of where the mud is collecting causing the chain to drop?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    then you ask me how you can make this right, yet now being told I don't have the "right" new bike to be supported on this product? I am keeping the bike, so you should still make the problem right in my opinion. I was a fan of this product until I started riding from time to time in wet conditions.
    xle- You are obviously p.o.'ed so I hesitate to enter this discussion. But I think that what PatSS was trying to tell you was that if you worked with him, instead of being belligerent (which is understandable on a certain level, but not going to help your situation) is that if he couldn't solve your problem, you would likely end up w/ a new frame. This bike works in wet conditions. Rode mine up a FS road here in Flagstaff (melting snow) the other day. Bike was layered in muck by the time that I got back down. I have never sucked a chain on my sonix. But I have been riding since 1992. I am not pointing fingers, but there are things that riders learn over the years. Yes, the elevated stay of the SL will never suck. But neither has my sonix. it is not a design flaw. (BTW- please never put tenacious oil on your chain again unless you are riding across one of the Great Lakes when it is frozen, but slightly melting on top and you are running studded tires).

    I think that you are the victim of piss poor LBS service. Haro, the company, deals w/ that all the time. It is obvious in many other threads. I honestly believe that if you work with Pat, you will end up satisfied. Remember- flaws occur in any manufacturing. It may be entirely possible that you have a frame that escaped under the QA/QC process. I would bet that haro will will make that right.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  28. #28
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    First of all, I really appreciate the user support that you guys are giving! It means something to me that a community does have the will to actually help! Now if we could get the manufacturer on board.

    Quote Originally Posted by b.ray
    (BTW- please never put tenacious oil on your chain again unless you are riding across one of the Great Lakes when it is frozen, but slightly melting on top and you are running studded tires).
    I have not used the phil woods petroleum in quite some time as yeah, I was seeing more attaching itself to the chain. I use a Park Tools chain scrubber to keep the chain clean, and the really light PT CL-1 seems to be more like a dry lube, and that's what I've stuck with for a while now.

    Quote Originally Posted by b.ray
    I think that you are the victim of piss poor LBS service. Haro, the company, deals w/ that all the time. It is obvious in many other threads. I honestly believe that if you work with Pat, you will end up satisfied. Remember- flaws occur in any manufacturing. It may be entirely possible that you have a frame that escaped under the QA/QC process. I would bet that haro will will make that right.
    I want to believe that Haro could make this right, but you did read this thread in sequence, right? Let's review:

    I stated that I was done with Haro, he added he wanted to make it right, I tell him what would make it right, he tells me that since I've moved on to some other brand,(even though I still have the Haro)..... tough luck.

    I'm not really p.o.'ed as you said, just not surprised that another company that looks good from the outside will not support people with their products. Just another little guy getting taken advantage of from some company that just doesn't care.
    *** ride it again!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker

    I stated that I was done with Haro, he added he wanted to make it right, I tell him what would make it right, he tells me that since I've moved on to some other brand,(even though I still have the Haro)..... tough luck.
    That is not what PSS said that is what you interpreted it as.

    As PSS and b.ray mentioned nothing is perfect in the mass production world (they used different words but it basically means the same thing). Haro is not one of the huge power houses in the industry but they have been around quite awhile and have helped many riders become super stars which takes allot of work. I feel they also listen to their customers for feedback to keep up with what is actually going on with their bikes. This is one of the rare forums where the manufacture is active with the community.

    You may have a whacked frame it may be something else, b.ray mentioned the LBS which could be a cause to the problem. I do all my own work but have found finding a real LBS that really knows their sheit is hard to find in fact I will drive 45-50 minutes to what I call my LBS yet I have many within 5-15 minutes away. PSS and DHJill work hard and you might want to try getting together with either or both to possibly resolve this.

    Brain woke up, my Marin with a similar problem I found the rear derailleur housing was binding with the swing arm pivot had to go slightly longer. And dont use glue for chain lube that Phil Woods stuff sounds horrible kinda like chain wax for moto's.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatSS
    I would be more than happy to walk through your setup and help you trouble shoot your problem. If you could send me some photos of your setup and chainline measurement and I can help you make your bike perform the way you want it too.
    xle- this is what you missed. I would bet anything that if you stop being angry and pointing fingers (yes, I read the thread- did you?), you will be satisfied (unless you may have burned your bridges). Haro bends over backward to keep their customers happy . You did not send the pictures after this message from pat. you continued to flame. And you still have haven't given him a chainline measurement. Believe me, he would explain how to get that if you didn't know how.

    I don't want to pile on bud. but, maybe you should go on a nice long ride (on whatever bike) before you post on here again.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatSS
    This could have been a likely outcome (new frame). Sadly you have moved on to greener fields, Maybe next time you could considor Haro for another bike.
    Ok, what does me buying a different frame brand have to do with anything to repair a problem?

    "I'm sorry sir you have two cars and one is a Chevy, I can't help you fix your Ford because you have a Chevy". Makes about that much sense!

    Really....? This sounds like he's not willing to go the distance to help here. What I can't fix is the fact that this guy asked me to give him a chance to make this right..... I did not imagine or interpret this, his threads say it all.

    This is truly a problem with this bike, I can't state it any other way, it is a problem, I still own the bike, and I have been seriously snubbed by PSS at Haro.
    *** ride it again!

  32. #32
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    Seriously dude.

    You need to go for a very long ride.

    Up comes the pedal. down goes the pedal.

    In comes the air. out goes the air.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  33. #33
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    I'm on the other side of the fence here and when I read what PSS said it sounds like, Sorry to hear we couldnt resolve this for you unfortunately you bought another brand that appears to work the way you want it to. His wording as well as mine can be taken many different ways depending on the emotion, I hear an apology you hear something different. Thank god we have opinions other wise we would agree on everything.

    Since you intend on using the Haro as a loaner/back up bike you should at least contact PSS or DHJill personally and see what you both can come up with as a resolve. I have had a issues with Haro way back but I respect the fact that their are employees there that are willing to work with the customer. The same day I had Haro issues I was also dealing with 3 other companies while at a national event and needed a wheel rebuilt, I still use and support all three brands but had to weave through allot of bodies to get results so my son could compete.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.ray
    xle- this is what you missed. I would bet anything that if you stop being angry and pointing fingers (yes, I read the thread- did you?), you will be satisfied (unless you may have burned your bridges). Haro bends over backward to keep their customers happy . You did not send the pictures after this message from pat. you continued to flame. And you still have haven't given him a chainline measurement. Believe me, he would explain how to get that if you didn't know how.

    I don't want to pile on bud. but, maybe you should go on a nice long ride (on whatever bike) before you post on here again.
    47.5mm chain-line measurement.

    If Haro really gave a rats about this problem, PatSS would not have snubbed my decision to buy a different brand. You have not read this thread, I clearly stated that I had been in contact with support and received blame for my issue with this bike, and that was the deciding factor on a different brand. Seems like a no-brainer to me, don't get help with something, you move on or go after them, and that is not worth the problems it causes. Obviously everyone in this thread thinks that this is a non-issue too, otherwise I would not be having to defend my issue. Do you think I am making all this up? why would I bother?

    btw, I have not flamed you, so why the nasty words?
    *** ride it again!

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    my last entry in this discussion-

    I am sorry if you think that I have attacked you in any personal way, xle. That is not what I intended. I only hoped that you would take the chance to stop being defensive (i.e. breathe) and let yourself be helped in this matter.

    If that chainline measurement is accurate, I am pretty sure that it is way too narrow. But WTF do I know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    I'm on the other side of the fence here and when I read what PSS said it sounds like, Sorry to hear we couldnt resolve this for you unfortunately you bought another brand that appears to work the way you want it to. His wording as well as mine can be taken many different ways depending on the emotion, I hear an apology you hear something different. Thank god we have opinions other wise we would agree on everything.
    Thanks dogonfr, I can see your point here, but I don't think I gave up on the issue.

    You see, on this issue I was not intending to see this go anywhere in my original post, was here to tell others of the lousy problem that I have had with this bike, and that I had moved to a new brand. PatSS posted the "Please give me a chance to make things right with you before you sell your bike and move on." He asked what would make this right for me, and I stated what I thought would solve the problem, a different frame (not the VL120) something with some chainring clearance, and He has pretty much written this off from what I read.

    So PatSS if you really want to make amends with this problem PM me and lets talk about this, everyone here seems to think Haro support is fantastic, prove it.
    *** ride it again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker

    So PatSS if you really want to make amends with this problem PM me and lets talk about this, everyone here seems to think Haro support is fantastic, prove it.
    Whoa there cowboy the prove it is not necessary we have options because we are different it could just be Haro's geometry and set up doesnt fit your style if this is the case let it ride. I have been their also and to say a brand didnt fit our style is hard to say it sound so cool when we slam them instead. Personally i'm guilty of this my self and after saying this will probably slam a manufacture in fact I could right now but it keeps revolving around to we are different just as bikes, cars, food, beer are all different. If it doesnt work out let it go you and me can go get a beer together well even if it works out I'll have a beer with you, enjoy life bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Whoa there cowboy the prove it is not necessary we have options because we are different it could just be Haro's geometry and set up doesnt fit your style if this is the case let it ride. I have been their also and to say a brand didnt fit our style is hard to say it sound so cool when we slam them instead. Personally i'm guilty of this my self and after saying this will probably slam a manufacture in fact I could right now but it keeps revolving around to we are different just as bikes, cars, food, beer are all different. If it doesnt work out let it go you and me can go get a beer together well even if it works out I'll have a beer with you, enjoy life bro.

    I am not trying to slam anyone, just want to see if anybody at Haro is reading and will follow up. And yeah, sharing a good IPA is always a fantastic way to start a friendship, (not that I have made any here).

    Thanks again for your words of support. At the moment it's all I've got.

    Peace!
    *** ride it again!

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    Wow, I have been out of the office for a while so I've missed all of this. XLE, we'd really like to try to help you with this. As many have said, we pride ourselves with our high level of service.

    If you are getting chain suck, there is likely a reason for it outside of a design flaw. We have sold many, many Sonix bikes over the years to happy customers all over the world. Have people got chain suck on a Sonix? Sure. Most frames (other than an elevated chain stay frame) are susceptible to chain suck. But our experience has been it's not due to a design flaw, it's due to some other issue. Once the issue was identified, chain suck goes away.

    We're happy to help you, but you have to help us help you.

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    Ok I am back, I was away from the Forums because I have been pretty busy lately.

    XLE, No one is snubbing you, You made it sound like you didn't have the bike anymore in your first post, now that I know you do still own the bike lets fix your issue. And referring that you could choose Haro next time is in reference to your next purchase (After your Superlight).

    First off your Chainline is too Narrow in earlier posts I menitoned the bike uses a 51mm Chainline. On the Race Face website it states the Dues crank can accept a 51mm chainline.
    How many spacers do you have on the Drive Side of the bottom backet?
    This sounds like the perfect place to start since you measured a 47.5mm Chainline.

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    PatSS, Thank you for getting back to me on this.

    I did not pay attention to the spacers the last time I had the crank off, I'll have to do this tomorrow as it is getting pretty late here tonight. I think there were two, but I'll have to look again.

    No ill will from my end of things, I just have been dealing with this for nearly two years and it is getting old, and expensive. I have to mention that this was also happening when the bike was new with the TruVativ stylos too.
    *** ride it again!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    PatSS, Thank you for getting back to me on this.

    I did not pay attention to the spacers the last time I had the crank off, I'll have to do this tomorrow as it is getting pretty late here tonight. I think there were two, but I'll have to look again.

    Well lets check this out and we will go from there. Don't worry XLE we will get this working for you.

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    XLE, I got your PM...it looks like Pat has a good handle on this for you. As a former pro team mechanic, he's very knowledgable. I'm confident he'll get this all straightened out for you. If he doesn't get right back to you, don't worry, he will...we're pretty busy this time of year but never too busy to help a customer.

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    I was going to say chainline, but just saw this thread.
    Guy has his bike set up wrong and blames the manufacturer.

    ...and a jerk about it, to boot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecoast
    I was going to say chainline, but just saw this thread.
    Guy has his bike set up wrong and blames the manufacturer.

    ...and a jerk about it, to boot.
    I don't think you have any reason to make this sort of comment, you have not a clue what has happened on this end, and what has been or not been discovered yet. Name calling is helpful too!
    *** ride it again!

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    well...

    ... I'm not calling you a jerk; just saying you're acting like one.

    Your answer was in post(s) # 12, 14, 18, 20, 27, 30, 33, ETC.

    Did you read the thread? 51mm was said more than once. But in your own post #34 you indicate you have THE WRONG CHAINLINE!

    I have two sonix; if you set them up correctly you won't have this 'problem'.

    Additionally, you hopped on the OP's thread and just started spewing BS about the level of support. It's not a even a Haro thing; it's either a YOU thing or your idiot LBS (find another) that should have picked up on this, as you say, 2 years ago.

    Go get the correct BB/chainline and come back and tell us life is wonderful.

    peace.

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    thanks ecoast for saying what I was thinking. Pat offers to help and he continues to pursue the "say the design is flawed" route instead of offering the pics and chainline measurement Pat asked for. design ain't flawed- or mine, or yours, or any of the other 1000's sold wouldn't work. xle- can you possibly understand how freaking insulting that is to haro? I would disregard someone who obviously doesn't want to be helped also. I still don't think that he has reread his posts(at least he won't acknowledge that he understands even tho his tone has changed considerably). And even though he did act like a jerk in this situation, I am not judging him as a person. I am judging his actions on this forum.

    oops, I wasn't gonna get involved again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.ray
    oops, I wasn't gonna get involved again.
    Involvement is personal like marriage this is a enet post.
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    Smile

    Okay.

    I wasn't going to to enter in this discussion again rather than get involved.

    Semantics.

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    I have a 51mm chainline, and this problem persists. I have replaced the 22T and 32T chainrings and also a new chain. My time again has been sucked up by this Haro VL120 without resolve.

    Thanks posters for being helpful and continuing to slam me for a very frustrating problem, it really helps
    *** ride it again!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    47.5mm chain-line measurement.
    do you know how to measure chainline? if you don't, I am more than willing to explain.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    I have a 51mm chainline, and this problem persists. I have replaced the 22T and 32T chainrings and also a new chain. My time again has been sucked up by this Haro VL120 without resolve.

    Thanks posters for being helpful and continuing to slam me for a very frustrating problem, it really helps
    Are you saying no one from Haro has been in touch with you about this issue in the last three days??
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    I have a 51mm chainline, and this problem persists. I have replaced the 22T and 32T chainrings and also a new chain. My time again has been sucked up by this Haro VL120 without resolve.

    Thanks posters for being helpful and continuing to slam me for a very frustrating problem, it really helps
    Just remember that you started the slamming by telling Pat that his design was flawed rather than offering the pics and giving the chainline measurement that he needed to diagnose your problem. you have now given two different measurements. which one is right? again- I would be happy to walk you through the steps to measure your actual chainline.

    What really helps is an apology when one has acted wrongly. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I have worked w/ the public for too long. Maybe I am persecuting you on this forum because of my frustration of dealing w/ dumb*sses (I am not calling you a dumb*ss). Or maybe you have all the support that you need right here. Again- WTF do I know? I only ride a sonix on the regular. I used to wrench on them; still wrench mine. Maybe you may stop blaming and seek the truth.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Are you saying no one from Haro has been in touch with you about this issue in the last three days??
    You know wnat- I am on a roll being an *ss. so I might as well continue. dogon- pat is still waiting to hear how many spacers xle has on the drive side of his bb. and he is still working under the assumption that xle has a 47.5 mm chainline (which would be totally wrong). Am I really the only the only one that is reading the posts? AND, not to mention the fact that it is a weekend.
    MTBR disclaimer- Work in the industry from time 2 time. For the majority of the stuff that I use, I didn't pay retail price.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.ray
    AND, not to mention the fact that it is a weekend.

    Just because it is the weekend doesn't mean I dont care about you guys and check up on you.

    XLE
    I remember working on Dues cranks during the shop days. If i remember correctly your setup has the normal 2.5mm plastic spacers, but you also have this funny redish colored metal washer that mounts between your right arm and the BB cup. Your proper setup for you to acheive a 51mm chainline would be NO BB spacers on the Left side, ONE spacer on the Right side, and dont forget that little redish colored spacer between the right arm and the BB.
    To measure your ChainLine measure from your Middle chainring to the center of the seat tube.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatSS
    Just because it is the weekend doesn't mean I dont care about you guys and check up on you.

    XLE
    I remember working on Dues cranks during the shop days. If i remember correctly your setup has the normal 2.5mm plastic spacers, but you also have this funny redish colored metal washer that mounts between your right arm and the BB cup. Your proper setup for you to acheive a 51mm chainline would be NO BB spacers on the Left side, ONE spacer on the Right side, and dont forget that little redish colored spacer between the right arm and the BB.
    To measure your ChainLine measure from your Middle chainring to the center of the seat tube.
    And that's what I've now got to correct the spacing. The 51mm measurement from the center of the seat tube to the center of the 32T chainring. Like I said, the problem persists.
    *** ride it again!

  57. #57
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    [QUOTE=XLE_biker] The 51mm measurement from the center of the seat tube to the center of the 32T chainring.QUOTE]

    When your chain sucks, is it during a shift? Can you replicate it in the stand? Are there any burs or imperfections in the chain ring that would cause the chain to ride the ring around? Which brand chain are you using? How old is the chain and chainring set up?

  58. #58
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    [QUOTE=PatSS]
    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    The 51mm measurement from the center of the seat tube to the center of the 32T chainring.QUOTE]

    When your chain sucks, is it during a shift? Can you replicate it in the stand? Are there any burs or imperfections in the chain ring that would cause the chain to ride the ring around? Which brand chain are you using? How old is the chain and chainring set up?

    Hey PatSS,

    The chain suck happens in the granny gear on steep climbs, not during a shift, but that has happened before too, but right now during shifting doesn't seem to be the time this happens. It has to be under hard climbs in mud or wet, and can't make this happen in the stand. Just replaced (a month ago) the 22T, 32T, and chain,(cheap Z-link narrow). The only ring that has not been replaced is the 44T. The chainrings are OEM from RaceFace.
    *** ride it again!

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    5 days and no response. So I'll only ride the VL120 in dry conditions seems to be the only solution at this point, or replace the frame. Haro support, are you still thinking about what can be done here?

    Thanks
    *** ride it again!

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    http://www.seaotterclassic.com/

    http://www.harobikes.com/mtb/

    They are a small company and try to stay in touch with every one as much as possible yet travel all over the country. I know it sounds like a sweet job traveling the world partying but it is actually a job and it wears one out because you can never stop, relax and spend some personal quality time. Many people out their want your attention, you do set up and tear down, keep up with forums, answer tech calls, meetings, public contact, sleeping in airports and it goes on and seems to never end. They do this for love of the sport.

    Many big companies hire people that know their are wheels on the bike and some have pedals but are mainly there for the minimum wage pay check so dont want to really deal with the consumer.

    People like Jill and Pat probably make less then you and work 3X more hours per year then you.
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    Thanks Dogon!

    XLE, we don't always answer forum questions on the weekends and this week has been pretty slammed due to Sea Otter prep. Pat will get back to you...don't know that it will be tomorrow or even this week since we can never rely on having Internet when we're on the road. If our hotel has a wireless connection (last year it wasn't working), I'll make sure he responds to you.

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    This is fine. I just saw the conversation stop for a few days and wanted to follow up.
    *** ride it again!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    The chain suck happens in the granny gear on steep climbs, not during a shift, but that has happened before too, but right now during shifting doesn't seem to be the time this happens. It has to be under hard climbs in mud or wet, and can't make this happen in the stand. Just replaced (a month ago) the 22T, 32T, and chain,(cheap Z-link narrow). The only ring that has not been replaced is the 44T. The chainrings are OEM from RaceFace.
    Hey XLE,

    Sorry I didn't get back to you over Easter weekend, this week is busy with Sea Otter.

    Now that your bike has a correct Chainline, since it was 47.5, Has it happened again?
    It sounds weird that your chain would follow your granny ring around and wedge in the frame.
    That would not be a frame flaw, if anything it sounds like a worn out chain ring or a stretched out chain. How often do you check/replace your chain? A good rule of thumb for chains is 12 links in 12 inches (measure at the pins) if your chain is over 12 1/8 inches you should replace it. I know KMC is an affordable replacement, but i have not had much luck with their chains. I use Sram chains, they seem to last longer than any other chains on the market.
    Since you now have the correct chainline I would like you to ride it again, and see if you can replicate your problem. If you can get it to replicate, check your chain and your chain rings for any imperfections or wear.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatSS
    Hey XLE,

    Sorry I didn't get back to you over Easter weekend, this week is busy with Sea Otter.

    Now that your bike has a correct Chainline, since it was 47.5, Has it happened again?
    It sounds weird that your chain would follow your granny ring around and wedge in the frame.
    That would not be a frame flaw, if anything it sounds like a worn out chain ring or a stretched out chain. How often do you check/replace your chain? A good rule of thumb for chains is 12 links in 12 inches (measure at the pins) if your chain is over 12 1/8 inches you should replace it. I know KMC is an affordable replacement, but i have not had much luck with their chains. I use Sram chains, they seem to last longer than any other chains on the market.
    Since you now have the correct chainline I would like you to ride it again, and see if you can replicate your problem. If you can get it to replicate, check your chain and your chain rings for any imperfections or wear.

    Sorry that you are busy with a show, this problem can wait. (maybe forever as it's not getting better).

    I have ridden in wet conditions since getting the chain-line corrected, and replaced the 9 speed chain and the 22T and 32T rings within the last month. Problem persists. There are no burrs or chipped teeth, warping, or problems that are obvious and the rings are new.

    I am using the 22 T ring in a hard climb, and the chain gets jammed in between the frame and the chainring from chain suck. There is no warning, the items are new, and seems to be no solution for this. Please understand that I can't spend anymore on high dollar chains until this gets solved. My last $50 chain got me maybe 50 miles before the chain was destroyed. Fortunately after the last purchase of new parts, it's becoming a habit to be almost nervous when climbing in the correct conditions and treading light on the downstroke as to attempt to not destroy yet another chainring. This is really taking the enjoyment out of the ride.

    As it stands I am in the same boat as when starting this conversation, and just spending money and time replacing chains and chainrings.

    This has been a problem for quite a while, and is getting old. Dry conditions on this bike, and it's fine, so maybe that's the solution?


    Beyond all of this, (seriously), Haro does not see this chainring/frame clearance a problem? It's the biggest mechanical problem I have ever faced on any bike and would not recommend this frame design to a friend based on this.
    *** ride it again!

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    You have replaced allot of components XLE_biker yet always have the same end results when the riding gets mucky. Just a question hear because I'm notorious at this, are you cross ringing?

    The possibility does exist you got a freak frame that is slightly off which is why proper measurements are needed. Possibly take it to a Haro dealer in Utah so the two can work on a resolve. A option like this would be between you, Haro and the LBS if their was an agreement. Keep in mind if this did occur and nothing was found or their was a setup issue you may be liable to cover some time and labor. Just throwing out another option here to both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XLE_biker
    Beyond all of this, (seriously), Haro does not see this chainring/frame clearance a problem?
    Again, it has never been a problem for me. I normally ride in dry conditions here in Northern AZ, but a recent ride on my sonix sent me to the doghouse when I returned w/ my GF's dog covered in mud. I went up a FS road to check out the conditions. They weren't good. And the three of us (myself, bike, and dog) returned covered in mud. Pretty sure that I am repeating myself. But so is XLE. It's the same tacky crap that you get throughout the west when we actually get rain (or in this case, melting snow). But I run a TV Stylo. maybe that makes a difference.

    The bottom line is that you need to go back to the shop where you bought this bike (as Dogon just pointed out). Or if you moved, take it to the closest Haro dealer. Hopefully, it is not the shop that recommended Tenacious oil for your chain. PatSS cannot possibly diagnose the problem on this forum. The bike needs to be in a stand in front of a competent mechanic (again repeating myself). Even if there isn't a fully competent mechanic there, Haro's warranty can walk them through the diagnosis.

    I worked at a Haro dealer for some time. They stand behind their products. I am impressed by Haro's CS in this time of cheap crap built in China (BTW- Unless, things have changed, I am almost positive that your bike was built in Taiwan. It may not seem a big difference. But, I believe that it is. A 16 year old didn't build your bike. Taiwan has labor laws.). But, yes, you are wasting your time here at this point. You need a mechanic that put can hands on the bike and contact Haro on your behalf. Good Luck.
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    Geez; still?

    Resolved?

    I have a couple of these bikes; different cranks, XT and M542, the only time the chain sucks is if the FD is not limiting...

    Do you have any play in the BB spindle/axle ?


    Strip it and send to Haro already. Let them figger it out if you and LBS cannot.

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    Never resolved.

    This incident and this design is not the first described. The LBS that I purchased from has decided to drop the Haro line because of THIS problem. There is no admission from Haro that the clearance IS an issue along the front chainring and the frame.

    If Haro cared about this, they would concede that this is a problem in the design, and add some room in the rear triangle for clearance the chainring and frame, and make a change in the frame, AND offer customers that are having this problem a frame trade program that would take this issue off the market once and for all.
    *** ride it again!

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    Are you cross ringing??
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    I had a similar problem today on my Sonix LT. Was on a city ride trying to find some climbs on grass. Started to climb a very short one and the chain fell and got stuck between the smallest chainring and the link. Tried to take it out without any success, the bolt on the link prevents the chain to get back on the chainring. Tried to open the missing link on my KMC with no success either. The worst part is that while I was trying to return the chain to the chainring ended rubbing the chain too much on the bolt, making it loose and the more it loosens the smaller gets the space between its head and the chainring.

    To make a long story short, the chain is still stuck, there's no way to tighten the bolt unless I remove the crank and I will have to wait till monday to get the bike to the LBS and have the job done.

    Had to walk 5 blocks to get home... Darn I'm pissed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamud
    I had a similar problem today on my Sonix LT. Was on a city ride trying to find some climbs on grass. Started to climb a very short one and the chain fell and got stuck between the smallest chainring and the link. Tried to take it out without any success, the bolt on the link prevents the chain to get back on the chainring. Tried to open the missing link on my KMC with no success either. The worst part is that while I was trying to return the chain to the chainring ended rubbing the chain too much on the bolt, making it loose and the more it loosens the smaller gets the space between its head and the chainring.

    To make a long story short, the chain is still stuck, there's no way to tighten the bolt unless I remove the crank and I will have to wait till monday to get the bike to the LBS and have the job done.

    Had to walk 5 blocks to get home... Darn I'm pissed...
    Can you shoot me a couple pics please.

    What rings were you spining in when it dropped?
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  72. #72
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    Here you go dog. Guess I bent a couple of chain links while trying to upshift in order to get the chain back to the chainring. I tried to tighten the bolt and gain clearance from its head to the chainring, but as you can see on the third photo the middle chainring won't let me reach the bolt's head with an allen key.

    Was riding on the smallest chainring and larger or the sprocket before the larger one, so I guess that was no cross ringing's fault.





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  73. #73
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    GOTCHAAAAA.

    With the help of a plier i managed to get the chain out of that %^$&$^$ place. I still had to tighten the link bolt, so I unscrewed both the largest and the middle chainring. The bolt's head was somewhat damaged, had to do some work to put the allen key on it. Tighten everything, put the chairings back and voila... Just to realize one of the links of the chain was damaged and could not rotate, making a bump everytime it passed on the chainrings, sprockets or rear derailleur. Took it out and replaced with a missing link.

    Talking of missing links, it's just me or theses things are not so easy to handle? I almost left my thumbs without any skin while trying to take the mofo out...
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  74. #74
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    By the looks of pic #3 you could have gotten a Ball Allen in their.

    http://www.amazon.com/ALLEN-WRENCH-M...0115286&sr=1-2

    I have never worked with the Missing Link only the Sram PowerLink which looks similar without the wings. LoL they separate easier when clean, shooting it down with Brake/Contact Clean is amazing. You need a new chain now anyway.

    http://www.spadout.com/p/sram-pc-991-chain-9-speed/

    This might be a good thing that happened because that bolt shouldnt back out by wrestling with the chain. Check your chain length might be a link to long allowing slack durring compression.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    By the looks of pic #3 you could have gotten a Ball Allen in their.

    http://www.amazon.com/ALLEN-WRENCH-M...0115286&sr=1-2

    I have never worked with the Missing Link only the Sram PowerLink which looks similar without the wings. LoL they separate easier when clean, shooting it down with Brake/Contact Clean is amazing. You need a new chain now anyway.

    http://www.spadout.com/p/sram-pc-991-chain-9-speed/

    This might be a good thing that happened because that bolt shouldnt back out by wrestling with the chain. Check your chain length might be a link to long allowing slack durring compression.

    I tried with the ball allen, didn't work too cause the bolt's head was all messed up. I did put some WD40 last night, didn't seem to do that much effect. Anyway, I had my fingers all in pain for trying to open it, so I might give it a try another day.

    Tha chain stays, has less than 300km on it, almost new. Checked all the links, looks ok, only the one I replaced for a missing link was damaged.

    You'r right about the bolt, it shouldn't have come out that easy. Made sure it was well tighten this time. Before assembling the whole bike I checked all the links looking for loosen bolts, guess I missed this one. Need to find something that won't let the chain drop there again, any tips dog?

    I really appreciate your support.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamud
    I tried with the ball allen, didn't work too cause the bolt's head was all messed up. I did put some WD40 last night, didn't seem to do that much effect. Anyway, I had my fingers all in pain for trying to open it, so I might give it a try another day.

    Tha chain stays, has less than 300km on it, almost new. Checked all the links, looks ok, only the one I replaced for a missing link was damaged.

    You'r right about the bolt, it shouldn't have come out that easy. Made sure it was well tighten this time. Before assembling the whole bike I checked all the links looking for loosen bolts, guess I missed this one. Need to find something that won't let the chain drop there again, any tips dog?

    I really appreciate your support.
    Throw that can away get some ProGold lube the stuff is great for the chain and penetrates zero gaps and rust. For chain lube spray it on while back pedaling lit sit a few second then wipe clean then repeat.

    http://www.spadout.com/p/progold-pg2000-spray-lube/

    Dont get me wrong on this because im a cheap arz and dont fallow rules either, it's always recommended to replace something as fragile as a chain after it's been bound and twisted. Since were on the chain here might try removing the MissingLink so the chain is a link shorter and test it that way. I havent set up a triple ring in a long time but i used to set it up Big ring rear to Big ring front get the derailleur cage going forward and set it. When in the big rear little front and not enough derailleur tension the derailleur flops backwards allowing the chain to flop free. As you go down a couple sprockets in the rear it gets looser.

    Get a new bolt just in case.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Throw that can away get some ProGold lube the stuff is great for the chain and penetrates zero gaps and rust. For chain lube spray it on while back pedaling lit sit a few second then wipe clean then repeat.

    http://www.spadout.com/p/progold-pg2000-spray-lube/

    Dont get me wrong on this because im a cheap arz and dont fallow rules either, it's always recommended to replace something as fragile as a chain after it's been bound and twisted. Since were on the chain here might try removing the MissingLink so the chain is a link shorter and test it that way. I havent set up a triple ring in a long time but i used to set it up Big ring rear to Big ring front get the derailleur cage going forward and set it. When in the big rear little front and not enough derailleur tension the derailleur flops backwards allowing the chain to flop free. As you go down a couple sprockets in the rear it gets looser.

    Get a new bolt just in case.

    Will try to find that lube here.

    When I first installed the chain I left it 2 links shorter in order to prevent the derailler from getting out of tension.

    Did a 22km ride in town to test the chain, everything seems fine. The problem to replace the chain is that I bought this one at Jenson's, took almost a month to get here and I even had to pay custom fees on it. Here in Brazil they are very expensive...

    Thx a lot again.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamud
    Will try to find that lube here.

    When I first installed the chain I left it 2 links shorter in order to prevent the derailler from getting out of tension.

    Did a 22km ride in town to test the chain, everything seems fine. The problem to replace the chain is that I bought this one at Jenson's, took almost a month to get here and I even had to pay custom fees on it. Here in Brazil they are very expensive...

    Thx a lot again.
    Sounds like your doing all the right things.

    Time to become a International bike component smuggler.

    Never a prob trying to help out a Bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Sounds like your doing all the right things.

    Time to become a International bike component smuggler.

    Never a prob trying to help out a Bro.

    I thought of that a few times, eheheheeh.

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    Reviving an old thread.

    I've also experienced the problem where the chain would get stuck between the frame while using the granny. I'm using the Truvativ Fived crank that came with the bike. I got this frame 2nd hand, so support is out of the question. After months of this problem, I finally figured out the cause - the granny ring is bent slightly in one place towards the middle ring causing it to get jammed at times. I have no idea why it is bent, but I have crashed a bit in my time riding it.

    I've just replaced it last night with a Deore crank, and I can see that there's a lot more space in between the rings. Haven't tested it yet, but hopefully this would solve the problem.

    On the issue of whether the frame design has a flaw, I think its not the issue as the primary problem is the chain getting stuck. There are other frames which would result in the chain getting stuck between the rings and the frame in the event of chainsuck.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameiskoko
    Reviving an old thread.

    I got this frame 2nd hand, so support is out of the question.

    On the issue of whether the frame design has a flaw, I think its not the issue as the primary problem is the chain getting stuck. There are other frames which would result in the chain getting stuck between the rings and the frame in the event of chainsuck.
    Haro wouldn't kick you to the curb if you asked for advise plus this is why they have a forum so people can get info, suggestions and advise whether one has a warranty or not.

    I had a '99 Marin Team bike back some years and suddenly it started sucking chain, cant remember what the fix was but it took almost 6 months to find while riding a trail. When I found the problem I felt really lame for not diagnosing it earlier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    Haro wouldn't kick you to the curb if you asked for advise plus this is why they have a forum so people can get info, suggestions and advise whether one has a warranty or not.

    I had a '99 Marin Team bike back some years and suddenly it started sucking chain, cant remember what the fix was but it took almost 6 months to find while riding a trail. When I found the problem I felt really lame for not diagnosing it earlier.
    Sorry, I meant to say support from LBS is out of the question. That is the norm over here. That, and trying to find a competent LBS that's actually willing to spend the time to solve problems like this when I didn't buy from them. The Haro forum has been quite a lot of help for me.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameiskoko
    Sorry, I meant to say support from LBS is out of the question. That is the norm over here. That, and trying to find a competent LBS that's actually willing to spend the time to solve problems like this when I didn't buy from them. The Haro forum has been quite a lot of help for me.
    That is one of the major problems with many LBS or companies they want to play the power game. People like dhjill go above and beyond to help their customers but understand there is only so much they can do because of this thing called time. A forum like this helps lift the responsibility off her a tad and promote a community of information from people that ride Haro;s or just enjoy people.

    Here are 2 links that I still use today, great info.

    http://www.parktool.com/repair/

    http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/fix/index.htm
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