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  1. #1
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    Pistola: Plush mode with 29er wheels?

    Hi,

    First post in the GG forum

    I知 considering a Trail Pistol(a), and I知 looking for experience with using big wheels in Plush mode (even though Plush is meant for 27.5+).

    Climbing/descending vs Crush mode?
    How plush is the 130mm of travel?
    Coil or air shock?


    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Hi,

    First post in the GG forum

    I知 considering a Trail Pistol(a), and I知 looking for experience with using big wheels in Plush mode (even though Plush is meant for 27.5+).

    Climbing/descending vs Crush mode?
    How plush is the 130mm of travel?
    Coil or air shock?


    Thanks!
    My trail pistol is setup with a 55mm stroke shock (130 travel vs 120 with the 50mm) and a 150 fork. I only run is plush mode. I used plush vs crush to adjust the geometry to my liking. If I ever drop the fork to 130 or 140 I would go back to crush as I do like the extra support mid stroke but the head angle is just too slack for my trails in crush with the 150 fork. I also don't run any larger than a 2.4 tire in back and have had no issues with tire to seat tube contact. I've run a nobby nic 2.35 and an ardent 2.4.


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  3. #3
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    One of the hot setups before The Smash was to run a Pistola in Plush mode with a 140-150mm fork, using an offset shock bushing to bring the geometry close to where it sits in Crush mode. The offset shock bushing will slacken the head-tube angle and lower the BB.

    This setup rides really similarly to The Smash in Crush mode, just with a little less travel.
    Last edited by Guerrilla Gravity; 07-13-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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  4. #4
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    I have a TP with the standard rear shock and my MRP fork set to 140mm. I love the way it rides. I leave it in Plush mode most of the time. I have never felt that I needed the extra 10mm in the rear. Also, moving to a Pistola forces you into a coil or very expensive Fox. I'm not a fan of either.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundrted View Post
    I have a TP with the standard rear shock and my MRP fork set to 140mm. I love the way it rides. I leave it in Plush mode most of the time. I have never felt that I needed the extra 10mm in the rear. Also, moving to a Pistola forces you into a coil or very expensive Fox. I'm not a fan of either.
    There is a 5mm spacer inside the RockShox air shocks that can be removed to net the 55mm stroke.




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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_twin View Post
    There is a 5mm spacer inside the RockShox air shocks that can be removed to net the 55mm stroke.




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    Interesting ....

    I got the below exploded view from the Deluxe RT service manual. Are you talking about the spacer I circled in red?

    I only weigh 140lbs and GG recommend that I remove the single volume spacer in my stock Deluxe RT. Since I may be taking the shock apart I could remove the spacer too.

    I'll be honest, I never really understood shock size to travel. What kind of travel change can be expected without the spacer?

    Is there a danger of damaging something else with the spacer removed?

    I'm mechanically inclined, but never worked on a shock. Is it complicated to remove the spacer? I found one post that said just cut it off and don't scratch the shaft.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundrted View Post
    Interesting ....

    I got the below exploded view from the Deluxe RT service manual. Are you talking about the spacer I circled in red?

    I only weigh 140lbs and GG recommend that I remove the single volume spacer in my stock Deluxe RT. Since I may be taking the shock apart I could remove the spacer too.

    I'll be honest, I never really understood shock size to travel. What kind of travel change can be expected without the spacer?

    Is there a danger of damaging something else with the spacer removed?

    I'm mechanically inclined, but never worked on a shock. Is it complicated to remove the spacer? I found one post that said just cut it off and don't scratch the shaft.

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    I don't see it in that exploded view. It will be a plastic 5mm spacer that limits bottom out by 5mm. Carefully cutting it off is the easiest way of removing it. I'll have a deluxe in my hands next week and will pull it apart and post a picture of it if you haven't found it by then.

    The relationship between shock stroke vs wheel travel is completely bike specific.

    A bike with a short stroke an a long link will generally have much higher shaft speeds and will require more compression damping than the opposite. Because of the mechanical advantage a longer linked/ short stroked bike will tend to require a higher spring rate. This is all very general but hopefully helps show that shock stroke and leverage curve are chosen by engineers to achieve a specific characteristic.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Hi,

    First post in the GG forum

    I知 considering a Trail Pistol(a), and I知 looking for experience with using big wheels in Plush mode (even though Plush is meant for 27.5+).

    Climbing/descending vs Crush mode?
    How plush is the 130mm of travel?
    Coil or air shock?


    Thanks!
    I had a Pistola (130mm) for about a year and a quarter, I loved it. One of the reasons I wanted this particular frame is I'd never tried "plus" wheels and I wanted to try both 27.5x3" and 29x2.6" tires, so I bought both wheel sizes and away I went. In the end I found I preferred the 29" wheels plus I wished I'd bought an XL frame rather than the large TP that I'd bought, so I sold the large Pistola and ordered an XL Smash frame to transfer parts to. Although I never wanted/needed another 10mm of travel, I thought what the heck, I'll try the Smash. Besides, my Pistola had enabled me to love (read: not fear) leaping, rapid descending and alt line picking in a way that I previously never believed I could; Smash simply seemed like logical progression.

    Anyway I always ran my beloved Pistola in Plush mode largely because I ran 185mm cranks and valued the extra BB height. But I liked the way the bike handled and landed in plush mode so I saw no reason to switch to crush. I never knew that plush mode was intended for 27.5+ -- I employed plush mode for both wheel sizes and the bike's handling in plush was ideal with wagon wheels IMO. (FWIW I found that 3" tires like to self steer to some degree. Handling with the 29x2.6" wheels felt neutral.)

    My bike was equipped with an air shock and I wasn't disappointed with it although I've ordered my replacement frame with a coil because I want to find out what that's like. I hear the coil is a little softer off the top and although I absolutely loved the performance of my air shock on my Pistola, I wouldn't call it extremely sensitive to small bumps. The faster and harder I rode that bike, the better it performed. To call it confidence inspiring is an understatement. It took me to new levels.

    I've been mountain biking for over 30 years and discovered early on that in order to love this sport, one must learn to love climbing, so I did. Decades ago. During this time I've owned many bikes and can say without question that the TP is an excellent climber. While riding the Pistola in plush mode I never felt like I was giving up energy to the suspension. The steep STA contributes to the ability to climb in a spirited way on several fronts. In addition to lessening the need to slide forward on the saddle, it helps keep the front wheel in contact with the ground while it maintains rear wheel traction. I ran a 160mm fork (think uber slack) but never felt like this bike wandered even on 20%+ grades.

    Soon I'll have my second GG bike. My girlfriend, boss and 3 or 4 friends are on GG frames now, too. They're that good. Hmmm, I wonder what my third GG bike will be like?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    I had a Pistola (130mm) for about a year and a quarter, I loved it. One of the reasons I wanted this particular frame is I'd never tried "plus" wheels and I wanted to try both 27.5x3" and 29x2.6" tires, so I bought both wheel sizes and away I went. In the end I found I preferred the 29" wheels plus I wished I'd bought an XL frame rather than the large TP that I'd bought, so I sold the large Pistola and ordered an XL Smash frame to transfer parts to. Although I never wanted/needed another 10mm of travel, I thought what the heck, I'll try the Smash. Besides, my Pistola had enabled me to love (read: not fear) leaping, rapid descending and alt line picking in a way that I previously never believed I could; Smash simply seemed like logical progression.

    Anyway I always ran my beloved Pistola in Plush mode largely because I ran 185mm cranks and valued the extra BB height. But I liked the way the bike handled and landed in plush mode so I saw no reason to switch to crush. I never knew that plush mode was intended for 27.5+ -- I employed plush mode for both wheel sizes and the bike's handling in plush was ideal with wagon wheels IMO. (FWIW I found that 3" tires like to self steer to some degree. Handling with the 29x2.6" wheels felt neutral.)

    My bike was equipped with an air shock and I wasn't disappointed with it although I've ordered my replacement frame with a coil because I want to find out what that's like. I hear the coil is a little softer off the top and although I absolutely loved the performance of my air shock on my Pistola, I wouldn't call it extremely sensitive to small bumps. The faster and harder I rode that bike, the better it performed. To call it confidence inspiring is an understatement. It took me to new levels.

    I've been mountain biking for over 30 years and discovered early on that in order to love this sport, one must learn to love climbing, so I did. Decades ago. During this time I've owned many bikes and can say without question that the TP is an excellent climber. While riding the Pistola in plush mode I never felt like I was giving up energy to the suspension. The steep STA contributes to the ability to climb in a spirited way on several fronts. In addition to lessening the need to slide forward on the saddle, it helps keep the front wheel in contact with the ground while it maintains rear wheel traction. I ran a 160mm fork (think uber slack) but never felt like this bike wandered even on 20%+ grades.

    Soon I'll have my second GG bike. My girlfriend, boss and 3 or 4 friends are on GG frames now, too. They're that good. Hmmm, I wonder what my third GG bike will be like?
    =sParty
    How tall are you? I'm currently trying to decide on frame size between L and XL.

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  11. #11
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    I have a regular 120 mm travel TP and I pretty much always run it in Plush mode with 29x2.5 tires. I like the higher BB height and the slightly more supple suspension feel vs. Crush mode. Plush mode seems to work better for the trails here in Michigan, which tend to be pretty tight and rooty. I haven't really noticed the difference in head angle between the two modes.

    Captkirky, I'm 6'3" with a 36" inseam and 6'7" wingspan. I ride an XL with a 40 mm stem and the sizing is perfect. I'm really glad I went with an XL over a L. The large would definitely be cramped.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by captkirky View Post
    How tall are you? I'm currently trying to decide on frame size between L and XL.
    I'm 6'2", 36" inseam, 6'5" wingspan. A 32mm stem on an XL frame will leave my saddle-to-handlebar distance within a millimeter of what it was on my large frame with a 65mm stem, which is what I was running.

    One important factor to consider is what you prefer in the way of saddle to crank position, in other words effective STA. I like my STA steep and in fact I run my saddle all the way forward on the rails. Heck I'd be happy if GG steepened the STA on their frames another couple degrees. But many riders prefer a slacker STA and in fact slide their saddles back on the rails, some even run setback seatposts to achieve their preferred position.

    If you're in the latter camp, you'd probably be better off with a large frame over an XL. But if you prefer a steeper STA as well as a roomy cockpit, don't fear the XL.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    I wonder what my third GG bike will be like?
    =sParty
    Ped舁head!

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    Thanks for the replies, I'm right at the edge but similar dimensions 6-3 36" inseam but shorter wingspan at 6-3 as well. More worried about the longer wheelbase but have always wanted to run a slammed stem but never been able to. Probably should test ride both but want to go ahead and pull the trigger. Also still torn between the smash and pistol but leaning towards the smash as I have a fun hard tail

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by captkirky View Post
    Thanks for the replies, I'm right at the edge but similar dimensions 6-3 36" inseam but shorter wingspan at 6-3 as well. More worried about the longer wheelbase but have always wanted to run a slammed stem but never been able to. Probably should test ride both but want to go ahead and pull the trigger. Also still torn between the smash and pistol but leaning towards the smash as I have a fun hard tail
    My TP has a wheelbase that is four whole inches longer than my old XC hardtail. Some of the trails that I ride in SE Michigan are about as tight as they get. Honestly, the increased wheelbase has not made it any more difficult to navigate tight corners. I just notice the improved stability when things get fast and crazy! Haha

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundrted View Post
    I have a TP with the standard rear shock and my MRP fork set to 140mm. I love the way it rides. I leave it in Plush mode most of the time. I have never felt that I needed the extra 10mm in the rear. Also, moving to a Pistola forces you into a coil or very expensive Fox. I'm not a fan of either.

    The blue disk is the 5mm spacer.


    Pistola: Plush mode with 29er wheels?-img_6971.jpg



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    Thanks to input from Laj.tuxmex and sparticus, just pulled the trigger on a Smash today. I went with what I'm calling a "large plus" I'm sure you've read about extra mediums and same concept but with the XL top and down tube but I wanted to run the big bike yoke dropper so L seat tube. Was tired of being at the top end of bike sizes and want to try to run a super short stem so it made sense

    Was torn between the TP and smash but I have a fun hard tail 29+ so thought the gap with the smash was better.

    Got the MRP ribbon and curious if anyone has ran the air vs coil side by side and thoughts? Planning on switching from 14-160 somewhat often as I live in Florida but make yearly trips to Colorado and Pisgah

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by captkirky View Post
    Thanks to input from Laj.tuxmex and sparticus, just pulled the trigger on a Smash today. I went with what I'm calling a "large plus" I'm sure you've read about extra mediums and same concept but with the XL top and down tube but I wanted to run the big bike yoke dropper so L seat tube. Was tired of being at the top end of bike sizes and want to try to run a super short stem so it made sense

    Was torn between the TP and smash but I have a fun hard tail 29+ so thought the gap with the smash was better.

    Got the MRP ribbon and curious if anyone has ran the air vs coil side by side and thoughts? Planning on switching from 14-160 somewhat often as I live in Florida but make yearly trips to Colorado and Pisgah
    Congrats, sounds awesome. Having owned a size large TP, I think the 斗arge plus size makes a ton of sense and might have been the way for me to go too but I ordered a regular XL Smash frame. Think I値l be okay as I致e already thrown a leg over the XL and had no problem with fitment.

    But honestly the large plus sounds even better.

    I haven稚 owned a coil fork but did run a 160mm Pike in my TP and recommend it. Your call but personally I don稚 see a reason to shorten the fork between out of state trips, these bikes handle really well with a 160mm fork. I知 even considering a -1ー AngleSet in my new frame... whenever it arrives.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Congrats, sounds awesome. Having owned a size large TP, I think the 斗arge plus size makes a ton of sense and might have been the way for me to go too but I ordered a regular XL Smash frame. Think I値l be okay as I致e already thrown a leg over the XL and had no problem with fitment.

    But honestly the large plus sounds even better.

    I haven稚 owned a coil fork but did run a 160mm Pike in my TP and recommend it. Your call but personally I don稚 see a reason to shorten the fork between out of state trips, these bikes handle really well with a 160mm fork. I知 even considering a -1ー AngleSet in my new frame... whenever it arrives.
    =sParty
    Yeah I mainly just got the idea from reading everyones extra mediums and for $200 I couldn't beat it, plus I wanted to make sure I could run 185 bike yoke dropper I think that was my main reason for the large seat tube.

    And yeah we have some fun trails in Florida and the southeast but not very much sustained down with a ton of speed so I didn't want to way over bike everything but the MRP ribbon ships at 150 and most likely I'll get lazy and just keep it there until I switch out the coil rear and raise the fork to 160 and just keep it there to test it out.

    Now to wait

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  20. #20
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    Oh man, I just put a XL Trail Pistol on order.

    I...like everyone else, apparently...am 6'3". But I'm even a little past the most-apish guy above, at a wingspan of 6'6" and a 34" inseam.

    Does anyone know what the magic number is for fitting the 160mm BikeYoke post? I may or may not have to run a 125mm post with the XL frame.

    But damn, it sure sounds like I'm a prime candidate for this Lesser Extra Large size...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Oh man, I just put a XL Trail Pistol on order.

    I...like everyone else, apparently...am 6'3". But I'm even a little past the most-apish guy above, at a wingspan of 6'6" and a 34" inseam.

    Does anyone know what the magic number is for fitting the 160mm BikeYoke post? I may or may not have to run a 125mm post with the XL frame.

    But damn, it sure sounds like I'm a prime candidate for this Lesser Extra Large size...
    I have a 34in inseam and 160mm dropper on a large TP. There is a lot of room to work with. I can post a pic if needed.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Oh man, I just put a XL Trail Pistol on order.

    I...like everyone else, apparently...am 6'3". But I'm even a little past the most-apish guy above, at a wingspan of 6'6" and a 34" inseam.

    Does anyone know what the magic number is for fitting the 160mm BikeYoke post? I may or may not have to run a 125mm post with the XL frame.

    But damn, it sure sounds like I'm a prime candidate for this Lesser Extra Large size...
    I think I would have been perfectly happy with the standard XL the numbers were just so much bigger than what I was used to I got gun shy and probably was overthinking it

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Oh man, I just put a XL Trail Pistol on order.

    I...like everyone else, apparently...am 6'3". But I'm even a little past the most-apish guy above, at a wingspan of 6'6" and a 34" inseam.

    Does anyone know what the magic number is for fitting the 160mm BikeYoke post? I may or may not have to run a 125mm post with the XL frame.

    But damn, it sure sounds like I'm a prime candidate for this Lesser Extra Large size...
    I agree that you would be a prime candidate for the extra large size. If you just put in your order recently, I would contact GG and see if they can change your order. Odds are they haven't started on your frame yet given how slammed they have been.

    However, I think you should be okay with the Revive 160. I have a 150 mm X-Fusion Manic on my XL TP. With my 36" inseam, the bottom of the dropper collar sits about 2.5" above the seatpost clamp. According to this Vital MTB comparison (https://vitalmtb.com/features/Vital-MTB-Face-Off-The-Best-Dropper-Posts,1762), the Manic and Revive have the same rail-to-collar length. So with a 2" shorter inseam than me, you should be able to make it work, but the post will be slammed. The pic below shows how it looks with my post down, just as a visual reference.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pistola: Plush mode with 29er wheels?-20180705_164845.jpg  


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    I literally just put in the order on Friday- I'm sure there's plenty of time before it gets started. They said lead time is 6 weeks right now, and I'm sure that could grow with a custom request. I'll see what they say.

    Would you mind taking a seat height measurement (or maybe you know it off-hand?) I got 27.5" for bottom bracket center to seat rail on my current bike. I feel like that's gonna come up significantly shorter than a lot of you other dudes around my height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I literally just put in the order on Friday- I'm sure there's plenty of time before it gets started. They said lead time is 6 weeks right now, and I'm sure that could grow with a custom request. I'll see what they say.

    Would you mind taking a seat height measurement (or maybe you know it off-hand?) I got 27.5" for bottom bracket center to seat rail on my current bike. I feel like that's gonna come up significantly shorter than a lot of you other dudes around my height.
    When I got mine I started with the center of the BB to the center of the seat rail. It was way too long. It was comical. In the end I think I came down almost 1.5in. That got me to the correct extension with a stock crank, Crank Brothers Candy pedals and Northwave shoes.

    We are Crested Butte rocking the single track and I don't have a tape measure. The 27.5in rings a bell but I can't remember if that is where is started or ended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I literally just put in the order on Friday- I'm sure there's plenty of time before it gets started. They said lead time is 6 weeks right now, and I'm sure that could grow with a custom request. I'll see what they say.

    Would you mind taking a seat height measurement (or maybe you know it off-hand?) I got 27.5" for bottom bracket center to seat rail on my current bike. I feel like that's gonna come up significantly shorter than a lot of you other dudes around my height.
    I'm sure you could call and change it then if it was that recent, I got quoted 10 weeks with the MRP ribbon which also adds time. Currently out at sea until September so I don't mind the wait as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I literally just put in the order on Friday- I'm sure there's plenty of time before it gets started. They said lead time is 6 weeks right now, and I'm sure that could grow with a custom request. I'll see what they say.

    Would you mind taking a seat height measurement (or maybe you know it off-hand?) I got 27.5" for bottom bracket center to seat rail on my current bike. I feel like that's gonna come up significantly shorter than a lot of you other dudes around my height.
    I just measured mine at about 31.5". Maybe I just like my seat really high? Haha but based on that you might want to change your order to an "extra" large to guarantee dropper post compatibility.

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    They said the minimum was about 29", so that makes sense given where your post seems to be. I could probably ride at 29"...like, my legs would physically be long enough. But I would be totally maxxed out and basically would just end up never putting the post all the way up. And nobody likes that.

    I went for the L/XL frame, which should be just right for the 160 seatpost.

    Can't wait. (...but gonna be waiting a bit)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    They said the minimum was about 29", so that makes sense given where your post seems to be. I could probably ride at 29"...like, my legs would physically be long enough. But I would be totally maxxed out and basically would just end up never putting the post all the way up. And nobody likes that.

    I went for the L/XL frame, which should be just right for the 160 seatpost.

    Can't wait. (...but gonna be waiting a bit)
    How long did they quote you? Mine is right around 31.5 as well but I wanted to make sure I could run the 180 dropper without it being slammed. Sounds like you made the right move and that extra couple of weeks won't matter once you have the bike and it's dialed

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