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  1. #801
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    All great points! I did consider the pains of switching parts and the fact I'd need to account for cable/chain growth and it did give me pause to think, "Do I really hate myself that much?".

    The biggest reason I'm thinking about the TP is simply because some days I want a nimble, light, efficient 29er weapon to hop on with my camera gear. The TP with 130/140 looks almost ideal, but man I really liked how plush that smash felt bombing down a chunky trail. I'd almost say it was as smooth, if not a little more smooth than my Yeti SB5+. Also, in crush mode the smash climbed amazingly well!

    That said, living in south Denver gives me access to a lot of trails and parks. While I wouldn't swap out every day, it would be nice to have the option swap for a megatrail and go hits some park over the weekend. Or have the Smash be my Enduro/DH bike and the Shred Dog be my everyday bike.

    Too many good bikes!

  2. #802
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    If it matters GG has said - if you want a 130mm bike, just get the Smash.

    Although I don't think you would be limited in anyway by a 120/130 bike (compared to a 130/140).

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I agree that swapping parts/shocks for a day or 5 doesn't really turn me on either. But, I can see a place down the road a few years where I have ridden the Smash a ton and I am getting a bit bored of the same old same old. At that point making it into a SD or MT could be very appealing just for something different.

    When I look back at why I replaced my last couple bikes it was just for a change of pace. Not because I wore them out...even my 9yr old Nomad!
    How does the suspension feel on the GG compared to your Knolly? I'm thinking about the TP and Fugitive. I'm sure you've heard my praise for the Endo with a CC Inline coil. I've yet to ride a bike that feels anywhere near that good suspension-wise.

    Right now the TP with the IL Coil, in raw of course, looks nice except it really comes it at a rather hefty weight. The reviews on the TP all suggest the suspension is rather taught, and that's not what I'm looking for. But I also hear with a coil GGs feel great.

    My guess is they have a similar progressive leverage curve similar to Knolly - and that works really well with a coil. Every bike with a progressive leverage curve with an air spring I've ridden did not work well for me.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    How does the suspension feel on the GG compared to your Knolly? I'm thinking about the TP and Fugitive. I'm sure you've heard my praise for the Endo with a CC Inline coil. I've yet to ride a bike that feels anywhere near that good suspension-wise.

    Right now the TP with the IL Coil, in raw of course, looks nice except it really comes it at a rather hefty weight. The reviews on the TP all suggest the suspension is rather taught, and that's not what I'm looking for. But I also hear with a coil GGs feel great.

    My guess is they have a similar progressive leverage curve similar to Knolly - and that works really well with a coil. Every bike with a progressive leverage curve with an air spring I've ridden did not work well for me.
    Good question. I've thought about it a lot, but sadly I don't have much to say that I think would be helpful in terms of a detailed description. I'll do my best....

    I like riding the Smash more than my Endo. If I had to choose I'd keep the Smash without thinking about it. And as you know I was and am pretty stoked about the Endo.

    My Smash is ~5lbs heavier than my Endo and I'm PRing the climbs as well as the descents. The only time I notice the weight is lifting the bike off a rack or out of my truck. A couple times I thought about doing a light build on the Smash for less gnarly riding and I honestly couldn't come up with any solid performance reason to do so other than to make it feel nicer to lift out of the truck.

    A big part of what I love about the Smash is how it steers. It's just the best handling bike I've owned of any wheel size. It's always doing the right thing without me having to think about it. I wish I could dissect this and fully understand what's going on, but so far I haven't been able to.

    The suspension is weird. Mostly because it doesn't make sense to me logically. With the coil and the fact I run the bike in plush mode it should be a $hitty climber, but it's not. It climbs amazing. I did Lord of the Squirrels in Whistler and never bothered to do anything with the shock other than ride it full open all the way up and all the way down.

    Okay so it climbs great, but that should then mean it's going to sacrifice traction going up and plushness going down. Nope. I've climbed stuff on the Smash my Knolly struggled with....to be fair I don't think 4x4 is the issue I think it's the 29er wheels and the suspension is a wash. And going down it's controlled and comfortable for a 140mm travel bike.

    Big picture feel difference between my Knolly and the Smash is zero...in terms of I don't end rides feeling like there was a traction or comfort benefit to one over the other...doing my best to take wheel size out of the equation. They do feel different, but it's a really vague feeling that's hard for me to pin down.

    I also love the external cable routing, frame pack space and dual bottle capability. I pretty much never have to wear a pack on the Smash and always need one on the Endo after 3hrs.

    I liked the Smash so much I have thought about getting a Shred Dog frame and moving my Endo parts across, but it doesn't make sense financially.

    Knolly is great company. I am sure the Fugitive is a great bike. If I had to only ever ride Knolly bikes for the rest of my MTB career I would not be sad at all.

    That said GG has blown me away and checked every box on my MTB experience. I can only speak to the Smash with a coil, but in that case I can say it's a pretty special bike.

    The TP definitely sounds more taut than the Smash and probably the Fug. So if that's not what you are after it sounds like you should pass.

    Sorry....haha....I'd like to be able to draw a more specific comparison, but I can't. In fact I've remarked to myself coming back from rides on the Smash that it's like stuff just happens when I ride it and I stop thinking about the bike and what it's doing. That's actually a pretty nice thing, but makes for $hitty review.
    Safe riding,

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  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    If it matters GG has said - if you want a 130mm bike, just get the Smash.

    Although I don't think you would be limited in anyway by a 120/130 bike (compared to a 130/140).
    I disagree with that. I have a trail pistol and a smash in the garage. The trail pistol is a completely different animal. I say, if longer rides and all day epics are your thing or your trails just aren't very rough, get the trail pistol. If pedaling efficiency takes a back seat to out right speed over anything get the smash. That said I don't think I am any faster or slower between the two, I just much prefer the firmer ride of the pistol.


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  6. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_twin View Post
    I disagree with that. I have a trail pistol and a smash in the garage. The trail pistol is a completely different animal. I say, if longer rides and all day epics are your thing or your trails just aren't very rough, get the trail pistol. If pedaling efficiency takes a back seat to out right speed over anything get the smash. That said I don't think I am any faster or slower between the two, I just much prefer the firmer ride of the pistol.


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    Thanks for the feedback! I rode a Yeti SB100 a couple weeks ago at outer bike in Crested Butte and thought it was a hoot for only 100mm in the back, but did quickly find the limits of the bike. Hence why when I found GG and saw the TP I was very interested. That said, the the Ibis Ripmo and the Kona Process 153 are the two bikes I'm measuring everything against.

    The smash feels a little less nimble than those two, but is an amazing climber and being so plush it would be great when carrying camera gear on my back and riding down the rocky mountains here in CO. That said, the TP was interesting because carrying all that gear on my back makes me want a more light/nimble bike for getting around the trails.

    Since you own both, would you say it's easier to make the Smash a lighter/nimble bike than making the TP more rugged/plush bike?

  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Features View Post

    Since you own both, would you say it's easier to make the Smash a lighter/nimble bike than making the TP more rugged/plush bike?
    The simple answer is yes, but both bikes have a lot of overlap in uses and feel. I prefer the trail pistol simply because in its firmest configuration it is firmer than the smash in its firmest configuration, which is what I prefer for my riding style and trails.

    Don't let the lack of 20 or 10mm of travel sway you from the pistol. I have never felt a harsh bottom out and I've done some stupid things on my TP. There are a few members on here that can attest to how hard I push my bikes. I have also ridden it with both air and coil shocks, again it's about having the right tool for the job.

    You really can't go wrong with either but if you're looking for something that has the ability to set up plush or firm depending on the ride I would push you towards an air shocked smash with a 140 fork. That will give you nearly the same handling as a trail pistol at a similar weight but with a little more comfort in trade for a little efficiency (both bikes run with shocks open)


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  8. #808
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    I agree that 10mm of rear travel on these bikes will not make that much difference at the end of the day.

    I went the other way. I took the TP and got an MRP Ribbon Air set to 140mm. The RockShox Deluxe RT is perfect for me. My average ride doesn't need a shock with a remote res on it. My MRP set per their instructions is very supple. Personally I don't think the rear suspension is harsh in any way, but that is me and my personal feelings. i also went with i9 BC360 wheels, 160mm dropper and full XT drivetrain/breaks. Tires were DHF/Agressor 2.5wt. Everything else is stock ride-1 TP. The rims were a splurge on my part, but I really wanted 36mm or larger rims.

    Setting my fork to 140mm does change my angles a little bit. Right now I'm closer to a Smash, but still have a light and nimble bike. At first I thought that bike was harsh. Then I redid the shock and fork pressures and it changed completely. GG did a good job getting it close, but it needed to be dialed in. Now that I'm used to my new tires (2.8 rear / 3.0 front) I'm going to start swapping frame modes.

    * The Trail Pistol accepts forks between 120-150 mm of travel. Changing the travel +/- 10 mm creates a head angle (HA) change of +/- .4ļ and BB height change of .1" (3 mm).
    With all that said there are a few things you could do a stock TP shock. Every GG bike has one volume spacer installed. If the rear feels to firm, just take out the spacer. If you REALLY can't live without a few more mm in the rear end, you could remove the bottom our spacer from the shock and get 5mm more shaft travel. I'm not sure what that translates in suspension travel.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gra...l#post13745300

    Unless your daily ride is big hits and looks like a Pink Bike Instagram post my suggestion is go with the TP. With either bike I would suggest getting the MRP Ribbon Air.

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundrted View Post
    I agree that 10mm of rear travel on these bikes will not make that much difference at the end of the day.

    I went the other way. I took the TP and got an MRP Ribbon Air set to 140mm. The RockShox Deluxe RT is perfect for me. My average ride doesn't need a shock with a remote res on it. My MRP set per their instructions is very supple. Personally I don't think the rear suspension is harsh in any way, but that is me and my personal feelings. i also went with i9 BC360 wheels, 160mm dropper and full XT drivetrain/breaks. Tires were DHF/Agressor 2.5wt. Everything else is stock ride-1 TP. The rims were a splurge on my part, but I really wanted 36mm or larger rims.

    Setting my fork to 140mm does change my angles a little bit. Right now I'm closer to a Smash, but still have a light and nimble bike. At first I thought that bike was harsh. Then I redid the shock and fork pressures and it changed completely. GG did a good job getting it close, but it needed to be dialed in. Now that I'm used to my new tires (2.8 rear / 3.0 front) I'm going to start swapping frame modes.



    With all that said there are a few things you could do a stock TP shock. Every GG bike has one volume spacer installed. If the rear feels to firm, just take out the spacer. If you REALLY can't live without a few more mm in the rear end, you could remove the bottom our spacer from the shock and get 5mm more shaft travel. I'm not sure what that translates in suspension travel.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gra...l#post13745300

    Unless your daily ride is big hits and looks like a Pink Bike Instagram post my suggestion is go with the TP. With either bike I would suggest getting the MRP Ribbon Air.
    The trail pistol definitely doesn't feel harsh, just more supportive than the smash. I like a bike that tends to ride higher in its travel, between the two that's the TP.

    Removing the blue spacer in my picture above nets an additional 10mm of rear wheel travel but sacrifices some tire clearance at full bottom out. I did not remove the spacer and notice no difference between 120 and 130 travel I had before.


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  10. #810
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    TP vs Smash really comes down to what you want the suspension to feel like, especially when you go 130 in the rear of the TP, not necessarily what trails you ride. If you subscribe to ďfirm is fastĒ, or you want better pedal efficiency, go TP. If you like things a little more plush, the Smash is your call. Both bikes are fun, long, and stable.

    FWIW, I ran my TP with a long stroke coil in Plush mode and offset bushings to make it -1į. I wound up with a 65.4, 130/150 Enduro race bike. Itís complement is a v1 Megatrail, and I found the TP faster in certain locales. Now that summer is over Iíll be going back to the air shock, less travel, and steeper angles to get the bike a little lighter and more ďtrailĒ oriented, as I have a Patrol on the way to take the MTís place.

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Good question. I've thought about it a lot, but sadly I don't have much to say that I think would be helpful in terms of a detailed description. I'll do my best....

    I like riding the Smash more than my Endo. If I had to choose I'd keep the Smash without thinking about it. And as you know I was and am pretty stoked about the Endo.

    My Smash is ~5lbs heavier than my Endo and I'm PRing the climbs as well as the descents. The only time I notice the weight is lifting the bike off a rack or out of my truck. A couple times I thought about doing a light build on the Smash for less gnarly riding and I honestly couldn't come up with any solid performance reason to do so other than to make it feel nicer to lift out of the truck.

    A big part of what I love about the Smash is how it steers. It's just the best handling bike I've owned of any wheel size. It's always doing the right thing without me having to think about it. I wish I could dissect this and fully understand what's going on, but so far I haven't been able to.

    The suspension is weird. Mostly because it doesn't make sense to me logically. With the coil and the fact I run the bike in plush mode it should be a $hitty climber, but it's not. It climbs amazing. I did Lord of the Squirrels in Whistler and never bothered to do anything with the shock other than ride it full open all the way up and all the way down.

    Okay so it climbs great, but that should then mean it's going to sacrifice traction going up and plushness going down. Nope. I've climbed stuff on the Smash my Knolly struggled with....to be fair I don't think 4x4 is the issue I think it's the 29er wheels and the suspension is a wash. And going down it's controlled and comfortable for a 140mm travel bike.

    Big picture feel difference between my Knolly and the Smash is zero...in terms of I don't end rides feeling like there was a traction or comfort benefit to one over the other...doing my best to take wheel size out of the equation. They do feel different, but it's a really vague feeling that's hard for me to pin down.

    I also love the external cable routing, frame pack space and dual bottle capability. I pretty much never have to wear a pack on the Smash and always need one on the Endo after 3hrs.

    I liked the Smash so much I have thought about getting a Shred Dog frame and moving my Endo parts across, but it doesn't make sense financially.

    Knolly is great company. I am sure the Fugitive is a great bike. If I had to only ever ride Knolly bikes for the rest of my MTB career I would not be sad at all.

    That said GG has blown me away and checked every box on my MTB experience. I can only speak to the Smash with a coil, but in that case I can say it's a pretty special bike.

    The TP definitely sounds more taut than the Smash and probably the Fug. So if that's not what you are after it sounds like you should pass.

    Sorry....haha....I'd like to be able to draw a more specific comparison, but I can't. In fact I've remarked to myself coming back from rides on the Smash that it's like stuff just happens when I ride it and I stop thinking about the bike and what it's doing. That's actually a pretty nice thing, but makes for $hitty review.

    Thanks, that was helpful.

    The TP with 130 out back with an IL Coil would be just about perfect, but its risky as I don't think I can get a test ride.

    Wheels - As someone who's spent a ton of time on the big hoops, 29", I'd bet money a lot of the good stuff you are feeling is coming from the wheels.

    I think what has made the Endo work well for me is the coil. While initially counter intuitive I do think the coil helps in some ways with climbing. Yes, the coil is softer off the top but when you are on a steep climb I'd say the suspension has sagged past that point and is very close to mid-travel. That is where I believe, by their nature, air springs wallow due to the very nature/phyiscial properties of an air spring. It is at that point in travel a coil spring adds relatively more support/resistance. So, that's why, weight aside, I think I thinks coils climb mountain bike trails better.

    If the Fug could be had at 120 or 130 with a IL coil I'd consider that. But in the 120 mode its air sprung only, and I find that an air spring on a progressive leverage curve (LC) works rather poorly for my style and terrain. In the 135 mode, I'd be looking at a heavier Fox DHX coil, and then probably a proper fork to match - like a Lyric or 36. At that point, that would be one heavy duty rig, and likely overkill for 90% of my riding.

    Anyway, just thinking out loud here, and I too am trying to "dissect" what makes a bike run well.

    Thanks.

  12. #812
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    Full Fall Camo

    I'm loving this bike more and more with every ride. Full fall camo!Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-20180908_112720.jpgGuerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-20180826_193436.jpg

  13. #813
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    Just got a shipping confirmation! My new bike is supposed to be at my doorstep this Thu. Any tips/tricks for assembly or is it pretty straightforward?

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    Pretty typical. The brake calipers will be installed but need adjustment. Install derailleur and make hopefully-minor adjustments. Cockpit will be bare. My dropper wasn't installed, which shocked me a bit. Then I realized 'oh yeah, they didn't bother because external frame routing! wooooo!' and it was super easy and I was happy.

    My seat tube was a little rough inside, would recommend checking it for general small bits of fab shop debris. I just wiped mine out with a towel-on-a-stick and some all-purpose cleaner. Greased seat post liberally, and still had to give a good twisty-massage to get it seated.

    Otherwise suspension pivots and all that on mine were tight and good to go, stem was installed with proper headset preload, ect. All that stuff should be checked, anyway...pretty much, it just doesn't matter to me who started to build the bike; if I'm doing the final assembly, I'm treating it like I built the bike. I'm gonna check and take responsibility for every single fastener on it.

  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    My seat tube was a little rough inside, would recommend checking it for general small bits of fab shop debris. I just wiped mine out with a towel-on-a-stick and some all-purpose cleaner. Greased seat post liberally, and still had to give a good twisty-massage to get it seated.
    Good tip and thanks for the info.

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by notsendy View Post
    Just got a shipping confirmation! My new bike is supposed to be at my doorstep this Thu. Any tips/tricks for assembly or is it pretty straightforward?
    Congrats, you're going to love it.

    If you need any help with set up let me know.


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  17. #817
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    Is anyone using a topaz on the rear? Iím considering pairing a ribbon air with a topaz, or maybe the new sapphire when I order my pistol. The dpx2 looks nice, but the topaz is more affordable and serviceable at home.

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    Someone at GG mentioned the Topaz but I thought maybe they were confusing the TP with one of their other bikes...I haven't seen the Topaz in the right size?

    I paired my Sapphire with the CC DBcoil and couldn't be happier. This suspension design seems to REALLY like coil shocks. So active/smooth/compliant, but I've had no concerns with bottoming, and pedalling is great considering the amount of squish.

    I also seemed to be able to dial the rear tune in pretty quick. On most bikes, I never really feel like the front and rear suspension 'matches,' and I just work on tuning the fork to my liking, and get the rear 'good enough.' But my TP is just on another level...when you stand on the pedals and really try to drive the bottom bracket into the ground, both ends compress evenly with a similar feeling progression and similar damping behavior. It's...very nice.

  19. #819
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    Options are listed as 210x50 and 210x55 - research shows that the 50mm strokenis the same as 55, with a spacer. So you get a pistol and pistola with one shock 🤘🏽One reason Iím considering it

  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by n1cholasj View Post
    Options are listed as 210x50 and 210x55 - research shows that the 50mm strokenis the same as 55, with a spacer. So you get a pistol and pistola with one shock One reason Iím considering it
    Every 210x50 I've ever seen is just a 55mm stroke with a 5mm spacer to limit bottom out.

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-img_6971.jpg

    I've posted the picture above a few times and some how people are still confused.

    The blue spacer is 5mm thick. This makes the stroke of the RockShox deluxe it is in 50mm. Without it the stroke would be 55mm. The extended eye to eye does not change based on this spacer. I have yet to see a shock with a 210 eye to eye that couldn't be converted between 50 and 55mm of stroke by simply adding or removing a 5mm spacer. If you wanted to be safe, you could order a 210x55 then add your own spacer should you want the 50mm stroke.


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  21. #821
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    Well hell
    Learn something new every day!

  22. #822
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    Good used option available for the frame over at PinkBike.
    Large, Lambo color.
    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2452639/

  23. #823
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    W00t! There are many like it, but this one is mine. Shaking it down tomorrow after work!


  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by notsendy View Post
    W00t! There are many like it, but this one is mine. Shaking it down tomorrow after work!

    Nice, congrats!


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    Tried the bike out last night and, like a lot of folks seem to, got a bunch of PRs with minimal fiddling and effort. Canít wait to ride again! Itís a beast both up and down.

    I went out in crush mode with ~25% sag on both ends. Gonna try plush mode and maybe goof around with the fork a bit. GX Eagle is a little finicky so far as well.

  26. #826
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    Also a pretty sweet complete for 2400 as well.....
    2016 Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol

  27. #827
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    hello, Ive been drooling over the trail pistol for a couple weeks now but im trying to decide on a fork. I live in florida so the trails here are very mellow but i make trips to alabama and ride some much more rocky trails up there. I also do a lot of bikepacking to include the tahoe area. Im wanting to build up a comfortable bike that can pedal all day long but still shred the downhills. is anybody using a 120 fork on theirs? the reason i ask is im thinking about the new step cast 34 but i hate that its limited to 120. i currently have a 140 yari but the steerer is too short to swap unless i change the uppers. so my question for everyone is would you rather have the 120mm Step cast (and go lightweight) , 130 Ribbon, or just run my yari

  28. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by beens View Post
    hello, Ive been drooling over the trail pistol for a couple weeks now but im trying to decide on a fork. I live in florida so the trails here are very mellow but i make trips to alabama and ride some much more rocky trails up there. I also do a lot of bikepacking to include the tahoe area. Im wanting to build up a comfortable bike that can pedal all day long but still shred the downhills. is anybody using a 120 fork on theirs? the reason i ask is im thinking about the new step cast 34 but i hate that its limited to 120. i currently have a 140 yari but the steerer is too short to swap unless i change the uppers. so my question for everyone is would you rather have the 120mm Step cast (and go lightweight) , 130 Ribbon, or just run my yari
    Get the MRP Ribbon Air.

    You can adjust the length to 150mm and all the parts are included. I have mine set to 140mm and love it.

    The ramp control is truly amazing and you'll never have to deal with tokens again. The positive and negative air Chambers make the fork super supple.

    You can also run up to a 29x3 tire depending on your rims. I have a 29x3 XR2 up front right now with i9 BC360 i36mm rims. I'm looking at moving to an XR4 next year.

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  29. #829
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    I do love that you can change the travel for free pretty much. i guess i could find somewhere else to loose a bit of weight. honestly I should stop caring about weight as i ride a 30lb hardtail now haha. looks like the price of the mrp direct from GG is about as good s it can get too. Im running the maxxis rekon 29x2.6 on santa cruxz reserve 30s so i like the idea of some extra clearance. did everyone have to dish there wheels to get them to fit a larger tire?

  30. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by beens View Post
    I do love that you can change the travel for free pretty much. i guess i could find somewhere else to loose a bit of weight. honestly I should stop caring about weight as i ride a 30lb hardtail now haha. looks like the price of the mrp direct from GG is about as good s it can get too. Im running the maxxis rekon 29x2.6 on santa cruxz reserve 30s so i like the idea of some extra clearance. did everyone have to dish there wheels to get them to fit a larger tire?
    I'm running a 29x2.8 McFly in the rear and I did nothing to my i9 BC360 rim. I also fit a 29x3 XR2 in the rear. I would say that's the max for the rear. I had no rubbing standup pedaling in the street. I also did a bottom out test and there was no contact with the seat tube. Granted, I didn't ride it on the trail.

    I don't have the link handy but I started a Trail Pistol 29+ thread in this section. There are a load of pics, measurements and so on.

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  31. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundrted View Post
    I'm running a 29x2.8 McFly in the rear and I did nothing to my i9 BC360 rim. I also fit a 29x3 XR2 in the rear. I would say that's the max for the rear. I had no rubbing standup pedaling in the street. I also did a bottom out test and there was no contact with the seat tube. Granted, I didn't ride it on the trail.

    I don't have the link handy but I started a Trail Pistol 29+ thread in this section. There are a load of pics, measurements and so on.

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    I saw your thread. it looks great. cant believe this has room for tires that big!

  32. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by beens View Post
    I saw your thread. it looks great. cant believe this has room for tires that big!
    Mine doesn't have room for a rear tire that big. I must have an older chainstay design.
    2017 Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol XXL
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  33. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTall View Post
    Mine doesn't have room for a rear tire that big. I must have an older chainstay design.
    Quote Originally Posted by beens View Post
    I saw your thread. it looks great. cant believe this has room for tires that big!
    Mine is a 2018. I got it in May of this year.

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  34. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTall View Post
    Mine doesn't have room for a rear tire that big. I must have an older chainstay design.
    Not worried about running a 2.8 really. Just want to run a xc type 2.6

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    Hey fellas!

    Looking for some suspension setup advice... My dad just bought a brand spankin new Ride 1 level TP, and then tore his ACL immediately (skydiving). Sooo.... I'm going home for thanksgiving, and he wants me to put it through it's paces to see how she does. He's got a 130 pike up front, and a Delux RT in the rear with 120mm of travel. What kind of sag does the TP like?

    My first ride i'll take it on will be mostly flowy, with some moderate chunk in there... and then I'll take it out to the mountains and hit some rough stuff.

  36. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post
    Hey fellas!

    Looking for some suspension setup advice... My dad just bought a brand spankin new Ride 1 level TP, and then tore his ACL immediately (skydiving). Sooo.... I'm going home for thanksgiving, and he wants me to put it through it's paces to see how she does. He's got a 130 pike up front, and a Delux RT in the rear with 120mm of travel. What kind of sag does the TP like?

    My first ride i'll take it on will be mostly flowy, with some moderate chunk in there... and then I'll take it out to the mountains and hit some rough stuff.
    I run mine at 25%-ish sag in the rear. For the front I would suggest what ever the manual says matches your weight.

    One thing, don't need mess with the open/close switch on the rear shock. Just leave it open and have fun.

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    The TP - has two modes Plush / Crush. Crush gives you the most "support" and is the stiffest setting. If you think it feels too stiff at 25% you can run more sag (30%) or switch to Plush mode.

    Basically just need to play around it with it to find your preferred set-up.

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    Thanks for the input! I'll start out with it at 25% in the rear in the slack setting and see how she does.

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    Relevant question: Who's running a 29er TP in plush?

    I've been in crush since I've had mine. Figured the bike already has that kinda high, 'bar stool' feel (not really a knock on it, steep seat geo just is what it is), so I probably don't want more STA and a higher BB.

    But I'm always for smoother suspension. I think I'm gonna give it a shot.

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    Iím curious about plush mode with a Angleset at -1 or -1.5... havenít gotten my bike yet to see what standard crush feels like

  41. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Relevant question: Who's running a 29er TP in plush?

    I've been in crush since I've had mine. Figured the bike already has that kinda high, 'bar stool' feel (not really a knock on it, steep seat geo just is what it is), so I probably don't want more STA and a higher BB.

    But I'm always for smoother suspension. I think I'm gonna give it a shot.
    I switch depending on the trail. I'm running my MRP Ribbon at 140mm and a 29x3 front tire. That slackens the angles a tad to start with. Some of the trails I ride a extremely XC and really benefit from the steeper angles.

    I can also notice a difference on big very days. 2000ft of vert in an 8 mile screams for Plush.

    I would say I run Crush mode 80% of the time. It's easier to get the front tire over obstacles in Crush. I don't notice a big difference between the two modes going down. Keep in mind my last bike had a head angle of 73 degrees.

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  42. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Relevant question: Who's running a 29er TP in plush?
    I run probably 80% plush mode and like the snappier feel. I find long low slack geometry is already super stable at speed anyway. The faster, more open trails benefit from crush, but my local twisty ones feel better in plush. Thankful for options btw.

  43. #843
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    I tried it on a quick 8-10 mile run. Tight east-coast pseudo-techy flow, lower speeds over rolling hills as opposed to any 'real' climbs or descents.

    I'm surprised, disappointed, and pleased, all at once. Surprised that my super-picky always-tuning ass felt no real difference in the performance of the bike, first of all. I just could not pick out what was better about it.

    Disappointed that plush really only seems to do one thing: upset what I've been feeling is pretty perfect weight balance. In crush, I may still say the BB feels high and the seat feels steep...but it still feels good. It's a trade-off that gives me such a great if a bit bizarre mash-up between an XC speeder (the efficient pedaling owed, in addition to the geo, to the Onyx hub and my switch to clipless), and a general trail crusher (from flow, to more enduro, to light downhill).

    But when I flip that chip...eh...I just feel more forward on the bike, heavier on my hands. Leads to less comfort, and what feels like worse handing (or, maybe, rather, just not as suited to the way I handle my bikes). I eventually lost my front wheel in a sloppy section. After a very brief moment of sawing the bars back and forth, trying to correct (I really felt like I should've been able to save it), my fork flopped over completely and I did one of those lovely 'not quite a bail to the side, not quite an OTB' maneuvers where I generally roll over my right shoulder and smash my right hip into something hard (every. damn. time).

    Even though that was totally my fault, I cursed at 'plush' mode, swapped it back, and immediately felt more at home on the bike. That's the 'pleased' part...I don't need to keep swapping the flip chip. One less parameter to mess with: crush is the way for me.

    I'm actually wondering now what I could do to further enhance the...'crushiness.' I really think I want to be closer to the ground. Is anyone running a TP at less than the recommend 27.5 tire size? I.e. not true 2.8-3.0 tires? Talking more like 2.5-2.6, which could knock an inch or more off the tire diameter when compared to a meaty 29x2.35 like the Hans Dampf.

    Can't be sure that I would like it better. But it's an idea. I think I've got enough BB height to afford dropping it less than an inch.

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    Okay, now I feel like getting really stupid, when I think about it...

    Has anyone 69er'd a Trail Pistol? Or Smash, for that matter? I'm envisioning like a standard 'big but not fat' front tire, e.g. the mentioned Hans Dampf. Then fit a chunky 27.5 in the back. Bam, slacker head angle, slacker seat, I bet it would feel good...

  45. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I tried it on a quick 8-10 mile run. Tight east-coast pseudo-techy flow, lower speeds over rolling hills as opposed to any 'real' climbs or descents.

    I'm surprised, disappointed, and pleased, all at once. Surprised that my super-picky always-tuning ass felt no real difference in the performance of the bike, first of all. I just could not pick out what was better about it.

    Disappointed that plush really only seems to do one thing: upset what I've been feeling is pretty perfect weight balance. In crush, I may still say the BB feels high and the seat feels steep...but it still feels good. It's a trade-off that gives me such a great if a bit bizarre mash-up between an XC speeder (the efficient pedaling owed, in addition to the geo, to the Onyx hub and my switch to clipless), and a general trail crusher (from flow, to more enduro, to light downhill).

    But when I flip that chip...eh...I just feel more forward on the bike, heavier on my hands. Leads to less comfort, and what feels like worse handing (or, maybe, rather, just not as suited to the way I handle my bikes). I eventually lost my front wheel in a sloppy section. After a very brief moment of sawing the bars back and forth, trying to correct (I really felt like I should've been able to save it), my fork flopped over completely and I did one of those lovely 'not quite a bail to the side, not quite an OTB' maneuvers where I generally roll over my right shoulder and smash my right hip into something hard (every. damn. time).

    Even though that was totally my fault, I cursed at 'plush' mode, swapped it back, and immediately felt more at home on the bike. That's the 'pleased' part...I don't need to keep swapping the flip chip. One less parameter to mess with: crush is the way for me.

    I'm actually wondering now what I could do to further enhance the...'crushiness.' I really think I want to be closer to the ground. Is anyone running a TP at less than the recommend 27.5 tire size? I.e. not true 2.8-3.0 tires? Talking more like 2.5-2.6, which could knock an inch or more off the tire diameter when compared to a meaty 29x2.35 like the Hans Dampf.

    Can't be sure that I would like it better. But it's an idea. I think I've got enough BB height to afford dropping it less than an inch.
    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Okay, now I feel like getting really stupid, when I think about it...

    Has anyone 69er'd a Trail Pistol? Or Smash, for that matter? I'm envisioning like a standard 'big but not fat' front tire, e.g. the mentioned Hans Dampf. Then fit a chunky 27.5 in the back. Bam, slacker head angle, slacker seat, I bet it would feel good...
    I would give it a month or two before changing anything. Run Crush mode and give yourself time to get used to the differences of a new bike.

    Slacker HA and SA angles kind of defeat the purpose of the Trail Pistol. I'm not a fan of the 69 thing on bikes. It just seems like forcing a square peg in a round hole or trying to fix a bad frame design.

    Depending on the fork you have you could extend it to 140-150mm. That would change the HA by .4 to .8 degrees. There are also angle headsets you could use.

    Per the GG site
    * The Trail Pistol accepts forks between 120-150 mm of travel. Changing the travel +/- 10 mm creates a head angle (HA) change of +/- .4ļ and BB height change of .1" (3 mm).



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    I have a Ventana that I run 29 fr/27.5 r...really fun, feels like you donít give up much of the benefits of 29. The geo was designed around that setup, so results may vary with a bike designed around 29 front and rear...

  47. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I tried it on a quick 8-10 mile run...I'm surprised, disappointed, and pleased, all at once. ...But when I flip that chip...eh...I just feel more forward on the bike, heavier on my hands. Leads to less comfort, and what feels like worse handing (or, maybe, rather, just not as suited to the way I handle my bikes). I eventually lost my front wheel in a sloppy section. After a very brief moment of sawing the bars back and forth, trying to correct (I really felt like I should've been able to save it), my fork flopped over completely and I did one of those lovely 'not quite a bail to the side, not quite an OTB' maneuvers where I generally roll over my right shoulder and smash my right hip into something hard (every. damn. time).
    Hmmm...interesting experiment results... I haven't noticed the weight on the hands and mostly noticed a loss in the 'pop', but more stability. I like to wheelie out of corners, manual/speedwheelie through sections of trail, and generally look for fun. Did you adjust shock pressures too?
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    Whelp I got in a few rides on the Trail Pistol... what a weapon!

    I left the shock wide open the whole time, and it was an excellent firm climbing platform. It was an extremely intuitive experience climbing, and descending. I was railing berms like crazy.

    I could definitely feel the shorter legs of the bike when compared to my Jeffsy, but it was a much more appropriate bike for the more rolly terrain that I tested it out on. It gets into the poppy fun area of the bike at lower speeds, which is nice when you donít have huge descents.... good thing I get to ride it as much as I want to for free, or Iíd be wanting one for the stable


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  49. #849
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    Tech Question:

    I have the older TP frame with the higher dropper cable port. I just installed a 170mm dropper and it barely fits. The cable is bound a little bit, but not enough to impact lever stiffness. Thing is, I would actually like my saddle about 1/4" lower for pedaling through chunk in flats. Just makes staying on the pedals easier when seated.

    Has anyone modified the port for their dropper cable? Pics? Advice?
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  50. #850
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    I drilled a dropper port into an old Titus ElGuapo and there are no problems at all after 3 years. Drill two holes and cut out the piece inbetween. The bigger question is warranty I think. There was no hope of ever getting any warranty on the Titus anyway, so I had nothing to lose.
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  51. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post


    Whelp I got in a few rides on the Trail Pistol... what a weapon!

    I left the shock wide open the whole time, and it was an excellent firm climbing platform. It was an extremely intuitive experience climbing, and descending. I was railing berms like crazy.

    I could definitely feel the shorter legs of the bike when compared to my Jeffsy, but it was a much more appropriate bike for the more rolly terrain that I tested it out on. It gets into the poppy fun area of the bike at lower speeds, which is nice when you donít have huge descents.... good thing I get to ride it as much as I want to for free, or Iíd be wanting one for the stable


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    Mudder, can you compare your impressions between the Jeffsy and pistol?

    Tia

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  52. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayndar View Post
    I drilled a dropper port into an old Titus ElGuapo and there are no problems at all after 3 years. Drill two holes and cut out the piece inbetween. The bigger question is warranty I think. There was no hope of ever getting any warranty on the Titus anyway, so I had nothing to lose.
    Iím second owner so I donít think warranty applies to me anyway.
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  53. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by insighter View Post
    Mudder, can you compare your impressions between the Jeffsy and pistol?

    Tia

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    I have ridden both and I got the Trail Pistol. The Jeffsy was a nice bike. It didn't climb as well the Trail Pistol. The YT didn't have as much clearance around the rear tire. I didn't feel I could get a 29x2.8-3 on there. Also, there was a weird thing where my heels hit the chain stays while pedaling. The Trail Pistol felt better both up and down hill.

    I'm not a carbon whore. The weight of the Jeffsy and the Trail Pistol are about the same.

    The biggest win for me, on the Trail Pistol, is the semi custom. I was able to exactly what I wanted. No compromising or waisting money stuff I didn't want. Getting all XT/e13, i9 rims and an MRP Ribbon wasn't even a possibility with YT. Sure not anything as for the cost I paid.

    On top of all this it's a local company and here in Denver. There customer service is second to none. I had a break issue and dropper is on my girlfriend's Shred Dogg. $20 and a few hours they fixed both.

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  54. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalkerfiveo View Post
    Iím second owner so I donít think warranty applies to me anyway.
    I thought I read somewhere it only cover the original owner, but GG is pretty amazing. I would be shocked if they didn't stand behind it and work with you.

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  55. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by insighter View Post
    Mudder, can you compare your impressions between the Jeffsy and pistol?

    Tia

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    Sure!

    So the TP I rode was 120 rear, 130 front. My Jeffsy is 140/140. To me the difference between the bikes is all about the rear travel. The Jeffsy has 20mm more, and you can feel it. When you get out of the saddle with the shock open and mash on a climb with the Jeffsy you are aware that it is probably not the most efficient way to pedal the bike. It climbs well, and you can stand and mash when needed, but it is a little spongy... when you do the same thing on the TP it feels completely at home. There is barely any give to the rear suspension, so it is super responsive. Itís a blast to climb with the TP.

    The rear travel also comes into play on descents... the Jeffsy feels agile, and encourages you to let her rip. Huck off of some drops, blast a rock garden, whatever. Itís not too much travel that you can just roll over anything... you have to pick your lines and carve up the trail, but it feels oh so good. The speed that this bike becomes ďaliveĒ is higher than that of the TP.

    The TP is a hoot on descents as well. You have to be precise, and really dissect the trail. The geometry is spot on for railing berms, and just feels very intuitive. It is more fun at lower speeds than the Jeffsy. That being said it does not go through the rough stuff nearly as well as the Jeffsy, but the geometry helps you not get out of sorts. I wonder what 135mm would feel like on the rear.

    Note: the Jeffsy is a $2300 build, and the TP is a $4500 dollar build. Both bikes had the exact same wheels.

    If I had to have one bike it would be a Trail Pistol. Itís more fun on my in town trails than the Jeffsy is, and can still handle the mountains. If I lived in the actual mountains... or just wanted a bike for the mountains it would be the Jeffsy all day.

    Iíll be keeping my Jeffsy, and a hardtail... but Iím kind of fortunate that I get to ride the TP whenever my heart desires, haha



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  56. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post
    Sure!

    So the TP I rode was 120 rear, 130 front. My Jeffsy is 140/140. To me the difference between the bikes is all about the rear travel. The Jeffsy has 20mm more, and you can feel it. When you get out of the saddle with the shock open and mash on a climb with the Jeffsy you are aware that it is probably not the most efficient way to pedal the bike. It climbs well, and you can stand and mash when needed, but it is a little spongy... when you do the same thing on the TP it feels completely at home. There is barely any give to the rear suspension, so it is super responsive. Itís a blast to climb with the TP.

    The rear travel also comes into play on descents... the Jeffsy feels agile, and encourages you to let her rip. Huck off of some drops, blast a rock garden, whatever. Itís not too much travel that you can just roll over anything... you have to pick your lines and carve up the trail, but it feels oh so good. The speed that this bike becomes ďaliveĒ is higher than that of the TP.

    The TP is a hoot on descents as well. You have to be precise, and really dissect the trail. The geometry is spot on for railing berms, and just feels very intuitive. It is more fun at lower speeds than the Jeffsy. That being said it does not go through the rough stuff nearly as well as the Jeffsy, but the geometry helps you not get out of sorts. I wonder what 135mm would feel like on the rear.

    Note: the Jeffsy is a $2300 build, and the TP is a $4500 dollar build. Both bikes had the exact same wheels.

    If I had to have one bike it would be a Trail Pistol. Itís more fun on my in town trails than the Jeffsy is, and can still handle the mountains. If I lived in the actual mountains... or just wanted a bike for the mountains it would be the Jeffsy all day.

    Iíll be keeping my Jeffsy, and a hardtail... but Iím kind of fortunate that I get to ride the TP whenever my heart desires, haha



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    Great comparison, thanks! I wonder how the pistola set up would alter the ride?

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    Oh I'm sure a 140mm fork, and pistola rear would pretty much make the TP into a direct comparison for the Jeffsy. If you just left the fork at 140, and had two shocks for the rear you would have an extremely versatile setup.

    That being said... That is a $5000 dollar setup, but you would essentially have two bikes.

    I could have a top of the line carbon Jeffsy with carbon wheels, and fox factory suspension for the same amount. So, I'm not sure which way I would go. It depends on what you already have in your quiver, and what your riding terrain is. I wouldn't hesitate to have the TP as my only bike. It would be better for some of the events that I did on my Jeffsy this year (Snake Creek Gap, PMBAR, Shenandoah 100)... although the Jeffsy did fine, and I would probably still choose it for PMBAR. The snappiness of the climbing on the TP would have been a welcome treat on the Shenandoah 100. I'll most likely ride the TP or a hardtail during that race next year... 140mm is a little overkill for a 100 mile race, haha. I never found myself wishing I was on another bike though! I guess most mountain bikes are just really good these days.

    Another random thought: The place that I get annoyed with climbing on the Jeffsy is in rolly/punchy terrain. I never mind climbing with it in the mountains on long sustained climbs. The rear suspension is very active, and hooks up wonderfully. I don't mind it on long gravel climbs either, but I do end up switching the shock into trail mode instead of full open... which is not a big deal at all when you're going to be climbing for an hour. On rolly terrain I like just being able to leave the shock open and mash. This is much more fun on the TP than it is on the Jeffsy.

  58. #858
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    The "park"version of my TP. Push 11-6 ( 130mm) and a Fox 36 at 150mm. I converted the fork with a Push ASC kit last winter- freaking awesome. I run the bike in Plush 99% of the time. With the additional fork travel its pretty slack...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-fullsizeoutput_b96.jpg  


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    I'm currently only running plush mode on my 29er Pistola I like it better for everything (except a flow trail) at this point.
    I like rocks

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    60 degrees in Denver does not suck

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    Trail Pistol

    Picked up a new Trail Pistol today and took it out for an 18 mile ride at ESA. Rode the black line most of the time with decent drops, lots of berms and good jumps. This bike is amazing!!! Went with Race build, DT Swiss Carbon Wheels, Pike 140mm Fork, Cane Creek DBCoil IL 130mm Rear shock. After riding it I am not sure I could go back to an air shock as it was awesome on the jumps, drops, and small bumps.

    I rode an Evil The Following for a few years. Recently had an issue with the Frame and Evil would not take care of the issue. My initial plan was to get the new Evil The Offering but decided to look elsewhere.

    The Trial Pistol rides so much better and more stable than the Evil The Following. I was amazed at fast you can go and the Trail Pistol is super stable. The guys at GG are awesome and build an amazing bike! Super happy that I decided to go with the Trail Pistol. No more plastic MTB bikes for me. Forgot to mention that it climbs great!! 29.6lbs with the coil!Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-65f0c78d-b9cb-4d9d-9cc4-252f2ba9da8e.jpg
    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-ec6c351f-1792-4202-9ab8-ad1d5b144325.jpg
    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-fa98a54d-68f0-45cf-b53e-e6ac62b0117a.jpg
    Last edited by ssspy2002; 1 Week Ago at 09:00 PM. Reason: Pictures

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    Jan 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssspy2002 View Post
    This bike is amazing!!!
    Your post makes me want to go ride. I might have to head to Boise this weekend!
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF!

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