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  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I donít want to sidetrack the party train. Probably all in this thread somewhere.

    I ran plush and crush, mostly plush. Air and coil, 28 to 35% sag.

    Excellent sizing, stack, awesome pedaling. I just couldnít tolerate how harsh the suspension was, particularly as speeds increased in successive square edge hits. Even on coil in plush at 35% sag.

    No harm, no foul, just wasnít the bike for me.
    This is interesting. Iím on a Shred Dogg and now that Iíve got the cockpit pretty dialed I love everything about the bike...except the rear suspension feel. Harsh and congested are pretty good descriptors.

    Iím still blaming it on the rear Super Deluxe air until I try something different but itís interesting you had the same feeling with all those different setups.


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  2. #1802
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    It's funny how different people feel different things, I came from a rocky mountain altitude to a smash and the smash is definitely more Poppy and pedal efficient but I've never noticed it being harsh, but I was used to getting a fair amount of bottom outs with the rocky so just different strokes I guess

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  3. #1803
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    I had a 2018 Instinct. Certainly didnít pedal all that well and was overall a meh bike for me. Even with the stock DPS Evol shock, though, it was more plush.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  4. #1804
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    For me and the riding around southern Oregon, plush is not particularly necessary. We have a lot of big climbs/big descents on fast, fairly smooth trails where really good geometry and efficient and supportive suspension is more beneficial IMO. Not much in the way of high-speed gnar. I'm mostly interested in a bike that can climb really well, feel stable and confident at speed, but still be playful-ish. I tend to jib my way down the trail rather than plow. I'm thinking the Smash built up more on the trail end of the spectrum with air suspension will be a great recipe for here.

  5. #1805
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    That sounds pretty much exactly like a Smash (or a TP) with air.

  6. #1806
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    I'm also curious about others who would say the bike is harsh, being on a new Smash where I've had a similar sensation on slower speed, rocky terrain. Bike just seems to be bounce off of everything. Riding coil front and rear in plush mode and just can't seem to get it dialed. Funny thing is that it feels better at speed, but then starts to move pretty quickly through travel and I tend to bottom on most drops so don't think it's a spring stiffness issue.

    Still tinkering with shock/fork settings and will probably swap springs to see if that helps, but definitely different from my previous Santa Cruz. Not necessarily a bad thing! Just been tricky to dial in my suspension settings and am wondering if I should have went with air.

  7. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaparzo View Post
    I'm also curious about others who would say the bike is harsh, being on a new Smash where I've had a similar sensation on slower speed, rocky terrain. Bike just seems to be bounce off of everything. Riding coil front and rear in plush mode and just can't seem to get it dialed. Funny thing is that it feels better at speed, but then starts to move pretty quickly through travel and I tend to bottom on most drops so don't think it's a spring stiffness issue.
    Something sounds wrong. I won't even try and diagnose your bike via the internet, but having the bike be too stiff in the initial stroke and bottoming out easily is not normal.

    I'm running dual coils on my Smash in rocky/rooty coastal BC terrain and the suspension is definitely plush. I've played around with two springs and like them both. I'm going to try a MRP progressive spring this year and sort of split the difference between the 450 and 500lbs springs I've tried.

    Setting up a coil shock is more hassle [initially] than an air shock since it's so easy to add/remove air, but I like the dual coil feel a lot and wouldn't want to give it up for air suspension. Also once you have your suspension dialled it's nice to just grab the bike and never think about your shock pump. It rides the same every ride.

    I wouldn't hesitate to contact GG with your suspension settings/sag and how the bike is feeling to get their input/advice.
    Safe riding,

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  8. #1808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    This is interesting. Iím on a Shred Dogg and now that Iíve got the cockpit pretty dialed I love everything about the bike...except the rear suspension feel. Harsh and congested are pretty good descriptors.

    Iím still blaming it on the rear Super Deluxe air until I try something different but itís interesting you had the same feeling with all those different setups.


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    FWIW, I went from a RS Deluxe to a DVO Topaz on my Shred Dogg and it transformed the bike for the better. The rebound damping on the RS seemed pretty whack. The Topaz is very smooth and controlled.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  9. #1809
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Has anyone had pretty horrible backpedaling issues? I'm on a new smash, Ride 1, TS+ 9-46 ring with default GX shifter/derailleur. I thew on a park tools DAG and the hanger is true...but I'll drop in the largest 2-3 gears reliably when backpedaling. I'm not a noob just losing my mind a bit. Haven't been a trail so no break-in at all.

    Any thoughts? b-limit screw has been adjusted, no real good ideas left in my bag-o-tricks.

    I've had a couple of the e13 TRS+ cassettes. I bent the 46t cog on the first one and e13 promptly sent me a replacement for the 3 aluminum cogs... good customer service from the hive.

    However, I've found that even following their directions precisely (torque wrench for the pinch bolt, even!), the cassette shifts slightly on the freehub body after riding for a while. Subsequently, when I spin the cassette, I can see the whole thing wobbling. I think this might be the culprit for clunky shifting and backpedaling, at least on my bike. Might even by why I bent a cog in the first place... that and shifting under too much load like a dummy.

    I've had to remove the cassette and reinstall once more, and it's shifted again but I haven't re-installed. It's irritating, but still ride-able.

  10. #1810
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Something sounds wrong. I won't even try and diagnose your bike via the internet, but having the bike be too stiff in the initial stroke and bottoming out easily is not normal.

    I'm running dual coils on my Smash in rocky/rooty coastal BC terrain and the suspension is definitely plush. I've played around with two springs and like them both. I'm going to try a MRP progressive spring this year and sort of split the difference between the 450 and 500lbs springs I've tried.

    Setting up a coil shock is more hassle [initially] than an air shock since it's so easy to add/remove air, but I like the dual coil feel a lot and wouldn't want to give it up for air suspension. Also once you have your suspension dialled it's nice to just grab the bike and never think about your shock pump. It rides the same every ride.

    I wouldn't hesitate to contact GG with your suspension settings/sag and how the bike is feeling to get their input/advice.
    Vik nailed this, IMO. I went from a dual air setup on my Trail Pistol (Pike fork/Super Deluxe shock) to dual coil on my Smash (Pike fork w/Push ACS3 coils and 11.6 shock). While I was never unsatisfied with the air sprung TP (I really loved that bike), the coils definitely fit my suspension preferences better, especially at the rear end of the bike.

    I run my Smash in Plush mode and while I would not exactly describe my bike as "plush," I'd definitely say it provides a responsive yet forgiving trail railing platform. Heck, maybe this IS the definition of plush, I dunno. I just know I really like the way this bike responds to all kinds of trail input. I don't want a couch. I want a bike that takes a pounding in a controlled manner and is ready for the next hit pronto, making me feel like increasing speed is all up to me -- the bike is definitely not holding me back. For me, coils go "boing" better than air.
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  11. #1811
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    Yup, plush is not that plush, esp compared to some other bikes; DW suspension for example.

    That said, the bike rides well and climbs great, so itís all about compromise.

    Maybe try a coil and see if it feels better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    This is interesting. Iím on a Shred Dogg and now that Iíve got the cockpit pretty dialed I love everything about the bike...except the rear suspension feel. Harsh and congested are pretty good descriptors.

    Iím still blaming it on the rear Super Deluxe air until I try something different but itís interesting you had the same feeling with all those different setups.


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  12. #1812
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Something sounds wrong. I won't even try and diagnose your bike via the internet, but having the bike be too stiff in the initial stroke and bottoming out easily is not normal.

    I'm running dual coils on my Smash in rocky/rooty coastal BC terrain and the suspension is definitely plush. I've played around with two springs and like them both. I'm going to try a MRP progressive spring this year and sort of split the difference between the 450 and 500lbs springs I've tried.

    Setting up a coil shock is more hassle [initially] than an air shock since it's so easy to add/remove air, but I like the dual coil feel a lot and wouldn't want to give it up for air suspension. Also once you have your suspension dialled it's nice to just grab the bike and never think about your shock pump. It rides the same every ride.

    I wouldn't hesitate to contact GG with your suspension settings/sag and how the bike is feeling to get their input/advice.
    Thanks, they've been pretty helpful so far and I'll probably get back in touch soon. I only have it to compare to a SC 5010 with a Topaz and don't honestly have a ton of time on it as yet. I also sort of expected the coil setup to be easier and now I know it's not, so that's good.

    Going to try and back out the HSC/LSC and make sure I have the rebound where it needs to be first. Just a bit nervous because of the discrepancy between initial travel feel and high speed/jumping feel. Would prefer for it to be consistent so that I could at least know it's a spring issue and not a leverage style or settings issue.

    Just to be clear, with a dual coil setup I should expect/aim for springs/settings that allow the bike to roll over objects without a lot of skipping/bouncing/deflection? So far the coil (front or rear) haven't felt that way at all so I'm just trying to get my expectations in order.

  13. #1813
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    Plush is one of those words that means different stuff to different people. A bike is plush to me when I can ride over my typical rocky/rooty terrain at various speeds and the bike grips the ground well and after several hours there are no comfort issues. I'm in the camp where suspension has a purpose and it's not to be as soft as possible.

    With the Smash I've done big days in rough steep terrain and never given a second thought to how it was providing traction or absorbing impacts. Hence why I called it plush.

    By contrast I grabbed my 275er air sprung for a big alpine ride this summer since my buddy rides the same brand/model and I figured I'd be a team player. Since I wasn't riding that bike regularly I adjusted the suspension air pressure by memory and was a bit off. The ride features a 1hr chunky descent and while the pressure wasn't off enough to compromise grip it was way more harsh than normal. I stopped a couple time just to give my body a break from the abuse and I was constantly thinking about the suspension. That bike was definitely not plush on that ride...although tuned properly that bike is plush.

    When I reviewed the Smash my comment on the suspension was that it just worked and I didn't have to think about it while riding. It just did what it was supposed to, which is part of what makes me so stoked about this bike.
    Safe riding,

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  14. #1814
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Plush is one of those words that means different stuff to different people.
    THIS. This is important, everyone had their preferences with suspension set up. For me I'm after suspension that I can push into very hard without hitting bottom all the time, yet tracks the ground well, and the Smash does that so we'll. I do like the air ribbon though better than the coil one now that I've tried both, it tracks nearly as good but doesn't dive through the midstroke as much, definitely personal preference but I'm stoked on how good I've got my Smash to feel for the way I ride.

    In other news I got around to trying out offset bushings on the Smash. Only a couple rides in but so far so good. Haven't noticed the change in head angle or seat angle too much, but the drop in bottom bracket height is very noticeable in corners. I did have to drop my stem about 10mm to get the stack and reach to feel the way it did before, but after doing that it felt great. Noticeably faster in corners and not much of a compromise on climbs.

  15. #1815
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    In other news I got around to trying out offset bushings on the Smash. Only a couple rides in but so far so good. Haven't noticed the change in head angle or seat angle too much, but the drop in bottom bracket height is very noticeable in corners. I did have to drop my stem about 10mm to get the stack and reach to feel the way it did before, but after doing that it felt great. Noticeably faster in corners and not much of a compromise on climbs.[/QUOTE]



    Which ones did you end up going with?

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  16. #1816
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    I just got them from offset bushings.com or whatever it is. Cost me about $30 for a 25x8 and 40x8, slacked out by 1 degree and lowered BB 10mm. Very happy with it so far.

  17. #1817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    I just got them from offset bushings.com or whatever it is. Cost me about $30 for a 25x8 and 40x8, slacked out by 1 degree and lowered BB 10mm. Very happy with it so far.
    Thanks! I might have to check them out seems like an easy switch for varying terrain

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  18. #1818
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    Iím wondering how much this plush vs harsh debate is up to weight. I am 260, probably 265-270 ready to ride w gear, and I find the Smash w SD air in Crush to feel supportively plush. I got a SD coil to try once I have time to source the shim (got it in Megatrail length for future flexibility as needed), but I only imagine it will feel moar plusher....

    Iíve had issues w other bikes in the past with blowing through travel and bottoming out too easily. I ride pretty aggressively (also not very smoothly, aka, hackish), so this plays a role, Iím sure.

    Iím curious...how many of those of you thinking the Smash is on the harsh side are under 200 lbs?

  19. #1819
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    Working on collecting parts for another bike. These were a great deal and I get to run a Christmas bike for the Holidays.

    Also - weight difference between a Deluxe air and a Super Deluxe coil with a 500# spring



    My vague Air versus Coil shock comparison
    Air - lighter, sits deeper in the travel to get better small bump, feels (but I don't know if it measurably is) better to stand and pedal unlocked.
    Coil - better small bump, better support, ride higher in the travel, more active suspension / faster rebound felt great.

    Sits deeper / higher in travel is completely dependent on spring rate. It just felt like with air to get small bump I had to have a really low air pressure. I finally pulled my shock apart and saw that it came with 3 spacers installed. I removed them all to make it more linear and will play around with that + a little faster rebound and see what I think. My local trails really don't "need" a coil shock and it is nice to lose 1.2 pounds off the bike.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails GG Smash 140mm 29er-9mxhkoz.jpg  


  20. #1820
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirsam84 View Post
    Iím curious...how many of those of you thinking the Smash is on the harsh side are under 200 lbs?
    I'm 170 lbs., and I don't think that the Smash is harsh. But I do prefer Plush.
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity Smash 140/150 29"
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  21. #1821
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeple View Post
    I'm 170 lbs., and I don't think that the Smash is harsh. But I do prefer Plush.
    I ride plush mode. I'm ~200lbs ready to ride.
    Safe riding,

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  22. #1822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    True, forgot about that, I know a good friend of mine ran offset bushings on his hightower for a while and rubbed through the seatube. It's only $20-30 so I might just get them and if it doesn't work out then I'm not out too much, and it will be good info to have.
    Gvus2001 - how are the offset bushings working out from a tyre clearance perspective? Any issues / how does it leave you in terms of space?
    Thanks



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  23. #1823
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    So my Smash is taking shape... currently in MegaSmash mode. DVO diamond 150mm fork, shimmed MT coil shock. Only done a test ride round the yard so far but feels good - less wallowy than MT 180mm mode which I donít ride fast or gnarly enough for.
    Sadly Iím out of town and will miss nice frozen trails this weekend :-( but Iím going to ride it like this a bit and then think about whether I want to go for the smash seatstays #fullsmash!


  24. #1824
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    Two days of mud

  25. #1825
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    Hi.
    Anyone know about conversation Trail Pistol to Smash?
    Is it possible? Which frame parts should I change?

  26. #1826
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    Quote Originally Posted by q232 View Post
    Hi.
    Anyone know about conversation Trail Pistol to Smash?
    Is it possible? Which frame parts should I change?
    Not possible with the 2018 metal bikes. It is possible with the 2019 carbon bikes. You'd buy the Smash rear end kit which GG will sell as a single part number for easy ordering and a new shock.
    Safe riding,

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  27. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossp View Post
    Gvus2001 - how are the offset bushings working out from a tyre clearance perspective? Any issues / how does it leave you in terms of space?
    Thanks


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    Sorry I missed this post, but so far there have been no issues at all. Haven't had any saddle buzz or rubbing on the seatube at bottom out.

  28. #1828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Sorry I missed this post, but so far there have been no issues at all. Haven't had any saddle buzz or rubbing on the seatube at bottom out.
    Cool. May try them too - what size tyre are you running ?

  29. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossp View Post
    Cool. May try them too - what size tyre are you running ?
    Running a 2.5 Assegai's (so really they measure about a 2.4). Actually just cut the center knobs down to run as a semi slick but they had plenty of clearance before, just a bit slow rolling as a rear.

  30. #1830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gvus2001 View Post
    Running a 2.5 Assegai's (so really they measure about a 2.4). Actually just cut the center knobs down to run as a semi slick but they had plenty of clearance before, just a bit slow rolling as a rear.
    Iím on a 2.5 Aggressor so should be good too. Order placed. Thanks.


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  31. #1831
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    With all the carbon love, some OG MegaSmash fun today on the east coast. And ice dammit.




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  32. #1832
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    If anyone has a large Smash in raw aluminum and is looking to offload, let me know. Thanks!

  33. #1833
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    XL Smash

    Just received this today! Bike shop will build it up for me tomorrow morning and I'm picking it up in the afternoon!

    GG Smash 140mm 29er-img_5043.jpg

  34. #1834
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    Quote Originally Posted by horriefic View Post
    Just received this today! Bike shop will build it up for me tomorrow morning and I'm picking it up in the afternoon!
    Not getting any old! Enjoy the ride.
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  35. #1835
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    Quote Originally Posted by horriefic View Post
    Just received this today! Bike shop will build it up for me tomorrow morning and I'm picking it up in the afternoon!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice. I like the colours. Enjoy the rad new bike.
    Safe riding,

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  36. #1836
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    For all of the plush vs. harsh posts, I can weigh in a bit.

    I had the harshness when I bought my Smash with the SD Air. It got to the point where my back couldnít take it. I had some sciatica issues and it was wearing me out. I ordered the super deluxe coil and over the past 6 months my back is back to normal and the bike feel amazing. I even started riding it in crush mode. Crush with coil feels just about perfect. I have no issues with my Ribbon air in the front, or the Lyrik I rode it with for a bit.


    I also added an offset bushing which I recommend as well.


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  37. #1837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brig View Post
    For all of the plush vs. harsh posts, I can weigh in a bit.

    I had the harshness when I bought my Smash with the SD Air. It got to the point where my back couldnít take it. I had some sciatica issues and it was wearing me out. I ordered the super deluxe coil and over the past 6 months my back is back to normal and the bike feel amazing. I even started riding it in crush mode. Crush with coil feels just about perfect. I have no issues with my Ribbon air in the front, or the Lyrik I rode it with for a bit.


    I also added an offset bushing which I recommend as well.


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    This is disconcerting. As you can see from my pic, my bike has the Deluxe Air. Any ideas why the Smash is harsh with an air shock?

  38. #1838
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    Quote Originally Posted by horriefic View Post
    This is disconcerting. As you can see from my pic, my bike has the Deluxe Air. Any ideas why the Smash is harsh with an air shock?
    I suspect it's the damper tune in the RS SD air. Reviewers noted the 2019 GG bikes felt more supple and the kinematics have not changed, but the bikes had Fox shocks on them.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  39. #1839
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I suspect it's the damper tune in the RS SD air. Reviewers noted the 2019 GG bikes felt more supple and the kinematics have not changed, but the bikes had Fox shocks on them.
    This is definitely a plausible explanation. In hindsight I might have been happy with a custom tune. The extra pound on the coil sucks, but it feels sooooo good. You Might try sending your SD air off. I took my wifeís Lyrik from her megatrail to DirtLabs and had them do a light rider tune. The difference for her his night and day.


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  40. #1840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brig View Post
    This is definitely a plausible explanation. In hindsight I might have been happy with a custom tune. The extra pound on the coil sucks, but it feels sooooo good. You Might try sending your SD air off. I took my wifeís Lyrik from her megatrail to DirtLabs and had them do a light rider tune. The difference for her his night and day.
    I've got an SD Coil. It's good....no real complaints, but I did get a custom tune at Vorsprung to see what that would do since the shock needed a service anyways. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  41. #1841
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    Quote Originally Posted by horriefic View Post
    This is disconcerting. As you can see from my pic, my bike has the Deluxe Air. Any ideas why the Smash is harsh with an air shock?
    I think it is personal preference/perception. I have a first year smash and run the stock RT air shock and it feels like a plush couch flying down gnarly mountain terrain to me.

    Just run what you have and decide later if you think you need to upgrade.

    50 mile ride past weekend with over 6k descending and super plush-o-rama!


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  42. #1842
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    Seconding. It's all preference. I got mine with a coil and switched to an RS deluxe (not the super - cause light-weight). I prefer the coil but I wouldn't describe it as harsh.

    But I also prefer it in Crush almost exclusively (haven't tried plush with air though).

    I do have to run my Deluxe rebound as quick as possible.
    Last edited by cassieno; 02-11-2019 at 05:58 PM.

  43. #1843
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    Yes, all preference I guess. I've ridden my Smash with a deluxe RT3, in crush and plush, and I never found it harsh, even riding it in Moab. I hope to soon be able to give impressions on the new one Same shock, but since it needs a service, I may just have it custom tuned at Dirtlabs (I'm a firm believer of custom tuning suspensions).
    French line enthusiast and expat in Denver, ig; lazoup

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  44. #1844
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    Thanks for the feedback guys! Will update here how my ride goes.

  45. #1845
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've got an SD Coil. It's good....no real complaints, but I did get a custom tune at Vorsprung to see what that would do since the shock needed a service anyways. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
    Interested to hear your thoughts on it!

    I have one as well with no tune, but am thinking about a DHX2 maybe...

  46. #1846
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    I can't imagine what some of you would say about my trail pistol. Compared to a similarly set up smash it feels "firmer" sure but I don't think it's harsh when ridden properly. My wife rides a smash with a super deluxe air and to me it feels very soft and wallowy but she likes it.


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  47. #1847
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    As a non-expert in suspension set up - I scratch my head when folks talk so conclusively about a bike being plush vs firm (not this thread specifically....more some of the internet rants Iíve seen). There is so much variability in shock set up that it seems to me you can set up bikes to feel however you want - and Iíd be curious to hear thoughts on that - am I over-simplifying things?

    On the Smash side - totally agree on the personal view. Iím switching between an Evil Following MB and a MegaSmash and yeah thereís a difference between them, but in isolation, both feel good and plush when needed, with settings making a big difference. Anyway, enough armchair riding, back to wishing it was the weekend and dry..... :-)



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  48. #1848
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    XL Smash

    Received my bike today! Next is ride it on the trails!

    GG Smash 140mm 29er-img_5106.jpg

  49. #1849
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossp View Post
    As a non-expert in suspension set up - I scratch my head when folks talk so conclusively about a bike being plush vs firm (not this thread specifically....more some of the internet rants Iíve seen). There is so much variability in shock set up that it seems to me you can set up bikes to feel however you want - and Iíd be curious to hear thoughts on that - am I over-simplifying things?

    On the Smash side - totally agree on the personal view. Iím switching between an Evil Following MB and a MegaSmash and yeah thereís a difference between them, but in isolation, both feel good and plush when needed, with settings making a big difference. Anyway, enough armchair riding, back to wishing it was the weekend and dry..... :-)



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    While you can definitely change/goof-up how a bike does/is supposed to feel with suspension settings, all bikes have different suspension patterns and kinematics. So some bikes move easier than others in the initial stroke/sag. Some bikes hang a bit in the middle. Some bikes have more platform, etc. Plush and harsh are probably too subjective but they're easy words to use. I think thinking of terms of deflection and initial stroke friction is pretty helpful when trying to describe how a bike feels off the top.

  50. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossp View Post
    There is so much variability in shock set up that it seems to me you can set up bikes to feel however you want - and Iíd be curious to hear thoughts on that - am I over-simplifying things?
    I don't think you can just adjust a shock so that any two FS bikes feel the same, but I do think it's correct to point out there are a ton of variables at play.

    - specific shock
    - shock settings
    - spring rate
    - shiock/bike maintence
    - rider weight
    - rider style
    - terrain
    - speed

    So it's not shocking [pun intended] that different people prefer one bike over another and that it gets confusing when trying to compare feedback from a bunch of riders.

    I've talked to other folks riding the same bike as me who had pretty much opposite opinions to mine in terms of how the bike performed. I have to take their comments at face value and just acknowledge we aren't all going to agree without being able to nail down exactly why that is the case in a specific instance.
    Safe riding,

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  51. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I don't think you can just adjust a shock so that any two FS bikes feel the same


    I've talked to other folks riding the same bike as me who had pretty much opposite opinions to mine in terms of how the bike performed. I have to take their comments at face value and just acknowledge we aren't all going to agree without being able to nail down exactly why that is the case in a specific instance.
    Exactly. It's less about making bikes feel the same (even trying to get two identical bikes to feel the same may not be easy...) but recognizing the vast differences even basic shock & fork tuning/settings can make.

  52. #1852
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    Rode my Smash yesterday. It was superb. I cleared many technical uphill sections that I could never clear before. The bike is an excellent climber indeed.

    Set my fork sag 30% and shock sag 30%. Riding in Plush mode. Did not feel harsh. Yes it felt firm, but the shock and fork were doing it's job well. I'm not a fast rider, but I could see that I was going faster than on my previous bike, while still feeling more at ease and in control.

    The XL was the right size for me, and I'm 5' 11.5' (just under 6') but with relatively long torso (torso length of 20.5").

    I feel like I'm a much better rider with this bike!

  53. #1853
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossp View Post
    So my Smash is taking shape... currently in MegaSmash mode. DVO diamond 150mm fork, shimmed MT coil shock. Only done a test ride round the yard so far but feels good - less wallowy than MT 180mm mode which I donít ride fast or gnarly enough for.
    Sadly Iím out of town and will miss nice frozen trails this weekend :-( but Iím going to ride it like this a bit and then think about whether I want to go for the smash seatstays #fullsmash!
    I am thinking about Smash\Megatrail as base frame for 2in1 bike. Could you please help me with some information. How much will cost seatstay?
    Is Smash better for temporal conversation to Megatrail?Or Megatrail better as a base frame?

  54. #1854
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    Quote Originally Posted by q232 View Post
    I am thinking about Smash\Megatrail as base frame for 2in1 bike. Could you please help me with some information. How much will cost seatstay?
    Is Smash better for temporal conversation to Megatrail?Or Megatrail better as a base frame?
    Iím speaking about the alloy version, not the new carbon, and from memory the seatstays are $495. You will also need a different shock or one that you can space down the travel on, plus potentially a different fork (29 vs 27.5) and wheelset.

    I donít really plan on changing mine back and forth - for the trails I ride, the Smash is a better choice (less travel + bigger wheels). I would choose based on that.



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  55. #1855
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    Quote Originally Posted by horriefic View Post
    Rode my Smash yesterday. It was superb. I cleared many technical uphill sections that I could never clear before. The bike is an excellent climber indeed.

    Set my fork sag 30% and shock sag 30%. Riding in Plush mode. Did not feel harsh. Yes it felt firm, but the shock and fork were doing it's job well. I'm not a fast rider, but I could see that I was going faster than on my previous bike, while still feeling more at ease and in control.

    The XL was the right size for me, and I'm 5' 11.5' (just under 6') but with relatively long torso (torso length of 20.5").

    I feel like I'm a much better rider with this bike!
    Nice looking bike! Love the None More Black with gold graphics.

    Iím on an XL Smash, too. Iím 6í2Ē tall and took just a little grief on this forum for getting an XL frame instead of an L. Unlike you, Iím all arms & legs (36Ē inseam, +3Ē ape index). Anyway in my opinion my XL Smash is a perfect fit. My bike is outfitted with a 40mm stem and 185mm party post.
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  56. #1856
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    Anyone who is having issues with chain drop while backpeddling, I've got your fix.

    GG Smash 140mm 29er-img_20190304_180924.jpg

    Throw that garbage 11/12 speed nonsense in the trash and go back to the glorious days of 9speed. Jamming all those useless gears in there just makes things much more prone to dropping and being out of millimeter-perfect-alignment-required-for-good-shifting if you look at them wrong.

    But in all seriousness this $125 science experiment that is the microshift advent is a 100% success. I honestly wouldn't want a 12 speed drivetrain after riding this now...even if it was also $125.

    Shred on!
    GG Smash

  57. #1857
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    @y0bailey How's your luck with chain drop? I know when I try to go brakeless through the rough, planning to use my handling skills, after forgetting to turn my clutch back on, the chain's almost guaranteed to come off. Bunny hop over that group of rocks and hope for the best? xD It's fun to try changing it up like this, but chain drop is a big deterrent (and buzz kill).

    Return of the chainguide to try 9 speed? I stopped at 10 spd with clutch, but 9 would halve my drivetrain costs by half again.

  58. #1858
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    @y0bailey How's your luck with chain drop? I know when I try to go brakeless through the rough, planning to use my handling skills, after forgetting to turn my clutch back on, it's almost guaranteed to come off.
    I've never dropped a chain on the old GX, XT 11, or the microshift....so not going to be super helpful there. The microshift clutch is adjustable, so if you want more tension you can have more tension.
    GG Smash

  59. #1859
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    I've never dropped a chain on the old GX, XT 11, or the microshift....so not going to be super helpful there. The microshift clutch is adjustable, so if you want more tension you can have more tension.
    Oh wait, there's a clutch on that? *looks up Microshift advent prices*

    Ah damn, it's not like Shimano Altus M2000 prices. I'm on Deore 10 spd atm, which is cheaper than advent.

  60. #1860
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Oh wait, there's a clutch on that? *looks up Microshift advent prices*
    Literally $125 for 11-42 cassette, shifter, and derailleur. TOTAL. Add on $20 for a 9 speed chain and you are set.

    Uses shimano freehub body though...so factor that into your plans.
    GG Smash

  61. #1861
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    My GX 11sp works fine on all my bikes, no issues with chain drop ever, shifts well, nice range, reasonable gear spacing, been ground against rocks aplenty and keeps on ticking.

    Now Eagle, that is some finicky stuff, always has a gear that doesn't like to shift.
    For Sale: XMed GG Smash Frameset
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  62. #1862
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Anyone who is having issues with chain drop while backpeddling, I've got your fix.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Throw that garbage 11/12 speed nonsense in the trash and go back to the glorious days of 9speed. Jamming all those useless gears in there just makes things much more prone to dropping and being out of millimeter-perfect-alignment-required-for-good-shifting if you look at them wrong.

    But in all seriousness this $125 science experiment that is the microshift advent is a 100% success. I honestly wouldn't want a 12 speed drivetrain after riding this now...even if it was also $125.

    Shred on!

    No, bigger wide range cassettes actually reduce chain drop, for a few reasons. Having a 50t ring in the back allows you to run a larger front ring, like a 36t or even 32t very easily. When you run a larger front ring you donít need to be cross chained all the way down into your little cogs to go fast. Therefore you are riding with a straighter chainlin that has more chain wrap in the front (since you can run a large chainring) and more chainwrap in the rear because you are riding more in the middle of the cassette, or possibly even on a monster 50t cog. 9 speed is probably fine, but in no way do the new 11/12 speeds designed for being ridden with a single front ring and no chain guide have more problems with chain drop than an old 9 speed setup. A straighter chain with more purchase on the rings is a more secure chain that is less likely to drop.

  63. #1863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Training-Wheels View Post
    No, bigger wide range cassettes actually reduce chain drop, for a few reasons. Having a 50t ring in the back allows you to run a larger front ring, like a 36t or even 32t very easily. When you run a larger front ring you donít need to be cross chained all the way down into your little cogs to go fast. Therefore you are riding with a straighter chainlin that has more chain wrap in the front (since you can run a large chainring) and more chainwrap in the rear because you are riding more in the middle of the cassette, or possibly even on a monster 50t cog. 9 speed is probably fine, but in no way do the new 11/12 speeds designed for being ridden with a single front ring and no chain guide have more problems with chain drop than an old 9 speed setup. A straighter chain with more purchase on the rings is a more secure chain that is less likely to drop.
    I'm referring to chaindrop while backpedaling. I never drop chains in normal "foward" biking. Just major issues with the GG and backpedaling.

    Also, clutches are the reason 10/11/12 don't drop anymore, and this is the first 9 speed with a clutch.
    GG Smash

  64. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    I'm referring to chaindrop while backpedaling. I never drop chains in normal "foward" biking. Just major issues with the GG and backpedaling.

    Also, clutches are the reason 10/11/12 don't drop anymore, and this is the first 9 speed with a clutch.
    Comparing apples to appples (9 speed with a clutch to 11 or 12 speed with a clutch), the modern 11 and 12 speed has better chain retention than a 9 speed. The chain drops easier when back pedaling because of the larger shifting ramps on 11/12 speed cassettes. They need to be there to make shifting easier because of how much better the new cassettes hold onto chains than old 9 speeds for example. Itís kind of one of those thins where the benefit of wider range cassettes is worth the almost nonexistent downside of not being able to pedal backwards. With perfect adjustment you still can, but it really isnít necessary, ever, even when ratchet pedaling through a slow rockgarden. 9 speed wins on price, but loses out on everything else including availability in shops.

  65. #1865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Training-Wheels View Post
    Comparing apples to appples (9 speed with a clutch to 11 or 12 speed with a clutch), the modern 11 and 12 speed has better chain retention than a 9 speed. The chain drops easier when back pedaling because of the larger shifting ramps on 11/12 speed cassettes. They need to be there to make shifting easier because of how much better the new cassettes hold onto chains than old 9 speeds for example. Itís kind of one of those thins where the benefit of wider range cassettes is worth the almost nonexistent downside of not being able to pedal backwards. With perfect adjustment you still can, but it really isnít necessary, ever, even when ratchet pedaling through a slow rockgarden. 9 speed wins on price, but loses out on everything else including availability in shops.
    That is your opinion. I never drop chains in the forward direction, I do when backpedaling, I have it drop when stopping and having the bike roll backwards a few feet (super steep inclines you don't clean), and it does it when I'm just stopping and farting around jibbing in the parking lot. I do it when I forget to put my bike in a middle gear and roll it off my rack. GRIND/CRUNCH. It's annoying to have to constantly manage. It has been such a problem I have literally gone through 3 drive-trains. The E13 cassette was the main issue...but it is still present in various degrees no matter what cassette I used. Time and money wasted for a problem you say doesn't exist seems a bit odd huh?

    I don't give a shit about number of gears. I give a shit about gear range and dependability. 11-42 is more than I've had for the first 10 years of biking, and is plenty for someone who has decent power output. Lastly, you tag your derailleur on a stump with 11/12 speed and your day is over or you're farting around for 30 minutes trying to get it to shift properly again. 9 speed has much more "wiggle room" for imprecise hanger alignment, dirt, sticks, etc....you know, mountain bike shit.

    Therefor, $125 and 9 gears is right for me, and probably right for a lot of people. Bike shops can have the parts in 2 days, and I'm right and your wrong. LOL.
    Search just mtbr for "backpedaling chain drop." Hundreds of responses. If this helps even a few people it's probably worth $125 to them like it is to me.
    GG Smash

  66. #1866
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    I am in the camp of I don't need 12 speed 11-50. I would happily take a 9 speed 11-50 . I just really like my 50.

  67. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    I am in the camp of I don't need 12 speed 11-50. I would happily take a 9 speed 11-50 . I just really like my 50.
    I'd take a 9 speed 10-34

  68. #1868
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Anyone who is having issues with chain drop while backpeddling, I've got your fix.

    Throw that garbage 11/12 speed nonsense in the trash and go back to the glorious days of 9speed. Jamming all those useless gears in there just makes things much more prone to dropping and being out of millimeter-perfect-alignment-required-for-good-shifting if you look at them wrong.

    But in all seriousness this $125 science experiment that is the microshift advent is a 100% success. I honestly wouldn't want a 12 speed drivetrain after riding this now...even if it was also $125.

    Shred on!
    Thanks for the drivetrain report. Personally I think it's cool. Wait -- crankset not included in the $125? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  69. #1869
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    Strongly considering an order for a carbon smash. Has anyone tried an EXT Storia shock on any gen of the Smash? Thinking of going with the V3 for my bike.

  70. #1870
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    Quote Originally Posted by pforward View Post
    Strongly considering an order for a carbon smash. Has anyone tried an EXT Storia shock on any gen of the Smash? Thinking of going with the V3 for my bike.
    I'll probably try one very soon, I'll report here. The previous version of the storia was high on my list for my last year's megatrail, but I decided to ditch that idea, and build it as a Smash instead. I'm now waiting for my new carbon frame (Smash), and I'm highly considering getting a V3. From what I've seen so far, the finishes are super nice, and it's light (for a coil shock).

    Remind me in a few weeks
    French line enthusiast and expat in Denver, ig; lazoup

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