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  1. #1
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    To GG or not to GG, and if so which one, size, components???

    Hi All,

    I realize I'm posting this in the GG area so opinions will be a bit biased but I'm already leaning in that direction so I'm OK with that. Also seems to be a lot of knowledgeable bike folks here from the reading I've done.

    Warning, LONG post -Short version - GG vs Kona Process/Hei hei and Trek Fuel EX8 and if GG Trail pistol vs. Smash

    I am in the market to upgrade from My Rigid SS (Kona Unit) to a geared FS bike. Was initially gong to wait until next year for my 40th B-day but thinking of fast forwarding it to this year to possibly get it in time for a big vacation I have planned that will hopefully include 6-10 days of riding some new locations.

    For the majority of riding I do I honestly think something like the Pedalhead would work, but I want to keep traveling in mind and I'm Also hoping the FS bike will be a little easier on my upper body, long rides leave my joints/wrists/grip pretty beat for a few days and as a carpenter that's not ideal!

    I know pretty much nothing about Geometry, travel, tech, etc. when it comes to bikes which is why I'm looking for some thoughts/advice here. prior to learning about GG last Fall I'd been leaning towards a Kona bike just because I've liked my Unit so much. Was partially torn between the Process or Hei-hei not knowing how much suspension I wanted/needed.

    Last two years I've also rented A trek Fuel EX8 and a Transition Patrol both of which I enjoyed; but without much to compare them too.

    My riding here in Maryland is 80% pretty mild and the other 20% I don't ride as much just due to my set up. But I've been riding 5-10 days a year on vacation at some harder/gnarlier places and would like to continue to do that even more. Ideally I'd find a good all around bike for home and travel.

    My initial thoughts are the Ride 2 Trail pistol which is still what I'm leaning towards, possibly with some upgraded MRP shocks.

    But I've been reading around the boards here how well some of you say the Smash climbs and wondering - would that be more versatile for bigger trips and Ok for daily use or "too much bike" for 90% of my use and just take it easier next time I hit Something like Captain Ahab with a Trail Pistol or rent a bike again in that situation or whatever.

    One consideration is my most common rides are rolling terrain or mostly flat, rarely around here do we have a big climb followed by a big down. Our hills just aren't that big. So I def prefer to run something that's all out all the time not like a back and forth switch on the shocks or lockout or whatever.

    Size wise like many I'm a bit confused with the sizing even with the sizing tool. I'm 6' 2" 225 pounds but with a longer arm/torso and shorter legs. Been on XL Kona last 6 years. Their sizing has me at a 3 Long with "all around riding" but moves me to a 4 short if I switch to Full throttle so I'm kind of an in betweener?

    I talked with Bobby at GG earlier in the week and he recommend the 4 short based on what I'm used to and size, which is the way I'm leaning myself....but there is a better chance I could get the 3 quicker since they are producing them now!! Though I don't want that to sway me since I'll keep the bike hopefully 5+ years, whether I get it for this particular trip or not isn't the end of the world.

    Thanks if you read this Far!

    MTBK

  2. #2
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    Iíve ridden in your area, and I think youíd be fine with any bike you want. I ride a megatrail most of the time and thatís ďoverbikedĒ but Iím old and things take longer to recover from rides. besides itís still fun.

    I also have a plus pedalhead. If you ride it as a plus bike, it would feel a lot easier on the joints than a non-plus 29er. I love the pedalhead. Itís my favorite hardtail Iíve ever owned. Seriously. Just canít ride it as much as Iíd like because the body doesnít heal like it used to.

    I think for a quiver killer you canít go wrong with the Smash.

    The one thing to know about GG bikes is theyíre really versatile. You can do as much on the trail pistol as you can on the Smash or the pedalhead. Itís just a matter of what youíre looking for.
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  3. #3
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    The Smash is a long wheelbase bike due to slack HTA, longish CS, and long reach, it's a 29er meant for going big and fast, so coming from a hardtail you may feel it's more bike than you want.

    The Trail Pistol is a tad shorter due to shorter CS, steeper HTA, but the reach is the same for the same size frames; modular frames.

    Which is best for you?

    Do you really need a 29er in full suspension?

    Would 27.5 be more fun when things do get tight?
    Lrg GG Shred Dogg
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  4. #4
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    Have you ridden a dually in a long time? My advice would be to start with a shorter travel bike, if not. Going from a hardtail to what is basically an enduro bike is a big leap. The difference b/w trail bikes and enduro bikes is basically handling at speed and insurance on bigger hits/drops/jumps. You can still ride everything an enduro bike can, but eventually you may want more travel to do so faster/better.

    Bought a Santa Cruz 5010 a few years ago after many years on a hardtail and it felt huge then. Made some serious progression and eventually decided I wanted a bigger bike (bought a Smash) to see if I could continue that progression but the bike wasn't holding me back.

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    Hey there MTBK. Glad we hooked you on the GG Kool Aid in Moab.

    Given what you've posted I would get the Trail Pistol or the Shred Dogg. They will both rock the trails in the bigger mountains, but be more fun at home. The SD with 2.8" tires would split the difference pretty well between the smaller wheels of a "skinny" 27.5 and a "skinny" 29er. So that could be a nice mix for you.

    I won't get involved with sizing beyond saying do whatever GG suggests!

    All the GG build kits are solid. That said if you can upgrade the fork and shock that would be a sweet investment and would pay dividends for all your riding.

    Kona makes fine bikes, but they've never really inspired me to give them any $$. Besides a car and a house my MTBs are my next biggest purchase so I want to be stoked about them. With GG you get made in 'Murica carbon and Devil's Horns thrown high.
    Safe riding,

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  6. #6
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    When I plugged my height in, it was spot on for full throttle, so I trust their recommendations.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for ďI suck at brake control.Ē Hereís a free tip: get better."

  7. #7
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    I'll agree with Vik that something like the Trail Pistol would work very well for what you want. It would be a load of fun on your home trails and still have a lot of capability for bigger terrain. And if in the future you decide that you want a longer travel bike, then you can just get some Smash stays and shock. It's quite cool that with GG, you aren't really locked into one model of bike.

    For you hands, I can't recommend the MRP Ribbon Coil fork enough. It's been a saving grace for my aging hands.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  8. #8
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    I agree with everyone.. you can't go wrong with something like the TP or SD for what you are looking for. If you want to experiment slightly you can do so by overshocking the TP to 130mm (Pistola build) or you could go with a shorter stem on the larger size to bring feel in a bit.

    When I was demoing these for sizing last year (on the aluminum bike) I tried a Medium Smash, thanks to Scott2MTB, and then later tried a Xtra-Medium Smash, thanks to Nurse_Ben. This was due to the fact that, similar to you, I am 6' tall with a long torso/arms and short inseam (6' tall, +1.5" apex index and 31" inseam) which kinda put me between a medium and large for the aluminum bikes. I fit just about exactly the same on both with some cockpit tweaking and both performed, to my seat of the pants feel, exactly the same. This lead me to the Size 3 sizing for my All Around riding style which I will run a 50mm stem in the short position. But should I need to, I can run something like a 35mm stem in the Long and cut the difference slightly, lots of playing around available.

    Anyways, talk with GG, let them know what your working with and they won't steer you wrong. And even if they did happen to, I bet you anything they would probably work to make it right for ya!

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    I moved recently from the east coast to the Denver area and just got the smash. It would definitely be overkill for the east coast but I used to see SC nomads on XC loops so to each their own.

    I am planning on picking up the seat stay kit to make the smash a trail pistol for east coast riding, which I think will be a perfect bike for the terrain. I went with an MRP ribbon air since you can adjust it from 130mm-160mm, so I will only need one fork.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdriscoll View Post
    I moved recently from the east coast to the Denver area and just got the smash. It would definitely be overkill for the east coast but I used to see SC nomads on XC loops so to each their own.

    I am planning on picking up the seat stay kit to make the smash a trail pistol for east coast riding, which I think will be a perfect bike for the terrain. I went with an MRP ribbon air since you can adjust it from 130mm-160mm, so I will only need one fork.
    I'll just add that the Ribbon coil has a similar range of travel.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  11. #11
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    Woah, Thanks for all the reply's guys!

    I'll do some individual responding but sounds like my initial gut towards Trail Pistol is probably correct.

    In theory I get the Shredd Dogg is also shorter travel compared to the Mega-trail. Guess I've just assumed 29 in my head since I've been enjoying the 29 wheels last 6 years; albeit on a totally different type set-up.

    Just based on GG's website descriptions of the Trail Pistol being for exploring miles of single track vs the Shred dogg turning your local trail into a pump track...my typical riding would be more suited to the TP.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Iíve ridden in your area, and I think youíd be fine with any bike you want. I ride a megatrail most of the time and thatís ďoverbikedĒ but Iím old and things take longer to recover from rides. besides itís still fun.

    I also have a plus pedalhead. If you ride it as a plus bike, it would feel a lot easier on the joints than a non-plus 29er. I love the pedalhead. Itís my favorite hardtail Iíve ever owned. Seriously. Just canít ride it as much as Iíd like because the body doesnít heal like it used to.

    I think for a quiver killer you canít go wrong with the Smash.

    The one thing to know about GG bikes is theyíre really versatile. You can do as much on the trail pistol as you can on the Smash or the pedalhead. Itís just a matter of what youíre looking for.
    Yeah I guess any bike can work, just trying to find that sweet spot. Having fun and recovering faster sounds good to me! Only downside of being overbiked I'd say I'm more likely to knock out a 20+ mile ride then do a bunch of big drops on any given day so the pedaling efficiency of the Trail Pistol with slightly less suspensions sounds more suited.

    The recovering is why I'm leaning towards the Full Suspension. I honestly think I'd enjoy the Pedalhead a ton but I'm only in the market for one bike so I want it to be versatile for vacation and home and want to get in more mid ride weeks instead of just weekends so being a little easier on the upper body would be a huge plus.

    Yes I've seen the quiver killer phrase and the smash seems to fit, though it sounds like Trail pistol can do the same stuff maybe just a little slower. I'm not a speed demon at this point so maybe starting with the TP is a better fit.

    Saw this reply this morning and was thinking about it at work, guess what I'm looking for is just to have fun on the bike as often as possible as many places as possible, and for as many years as possible!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Smash is a long wheelbase bike due to slack HTA, longish CS, and long reach, it's a 29er meant for going big and fast, so coming from a hardtail you may feel it's more bike than you want.

    The Trail Pistol is a tad shorter due to shorter CS, steeper HTA, but the reach is the same for the same size frames; modular frames.

    Which is best for you?

    Do you really need a 29er in full suspension?

    Would 27.5 be more fun when things do get tight?
    I got HTA meant head tube angle, took some googling to figure out what CS stood for...still don't know what any of it means or how it effects the bike but I know what he acronyms stand for at least!!

    Don't know that I need a FS 29, just what I've been assuming based on my current 29 and the TP seems more geared to XC then the SD which is a high percentage of my home rides.

    Looks like via thier website the reach is about 1/2 inch longer for the TP then the Smash, guessing due to angles, don't know.

    My newb question is looks like the size 3 specs out similar to my current ride so maybe I don't need a 4 short. But do you typically want more/less reach for rigid vs Full Suspension or does that not matter?

    As far as specs comparing size 3 TP and Smash vs my current Kona-

    Bike Wheelbase Reach Chain Saty
    Kona 46.1 19 17.1
    Size 3 TP 48.4 19.4 16.8
    Smash 3 49.2 18.8 17.1

  14. #14
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    Based on your descriptions I'd have to say that I agree with the majority here - TP is probably best suited for your local riding scene, paired with a Ribbon Coil for your hand/wrist issues. (You could also look into RevGrips or Flexx bars)

    If you travel occasionally it can handle damn near anything, but if you find yourself going big on a more regular basis then another shock and stay kit will get you a Smash for not a tonne more money.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaparzo View Post
    Have you ridden a dually in a long time?

    My advice would be to start with a shorter travel bike, if not. Going from a hardtail to what is basically an enduro bike is a big leap. The difference b/w trail bikes and enduro bikes is basically handling at speed and insurance on bigger hits/drops/jumps. You can still ride everything an enduro bike can, but eventually you may want more travel to do so faster/better.

    Bought a Santa Cruz 5010 a few years ago after many years on a hardtail and it felt huge then. Made some serious progression and eventually decided I wanted a bigger bike (bought a Smash) to see if I could continue that progression but the bike wasn't holding me back.
    No, outside of these last two years renting a FS for a few days I've enver rideen or owned any.

    Yeah I think the TP makes sense for a more gradual progression for sure. I'm not doing many big drops and really no jumps (though I'd like to start with the new rig) so don't need the insurance for that at this point.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Hey there MTBK. Glad we hooked you on the GG Kool Aid in Moab.
    Ha, I'm a pretty easy mark

    But yeah everyone seemed pretty pumped on the bikes out there and here on the boards, and just the internet in general it seems. Pretty positive reviews from what I've read.

    As a small business owner myself it's pretty awesome what they are doing with the made in america, guerrilla marketing, etc. I'll admit I was a bit bummed on the Carbon at first since I wanted aluminum but the more I've researched and listened to podcasts and what not it sounds pretty legit.

    Given what you've posted I would get the Trail Pistol or the Shred Dogg. They will both rock the trails in the bigger mountains, but be more fun at home. The SD with 2.8" tires would split the difference pretty well between the smaller wheels of a "skinny" 27.5 and a "skinny" 29er. So that could be a nice mix for you.
    As stated previously, Trail Pistol makes more sense to me I think.

    I won't get involved with sizing beyond saying do whatever GG suggests!
    Oh c'mon man you know you want to get involved

    Bobby on the phones thought size 4 makes sense but their website says 3 long for all around and 4 short for full throttle, I'm more in the all around camp which would lean to size 3 long...just don't want to feel "cramped" I guess like the bear on the tricycle or like I'm hunched over but sounds like I won't be comparing specs to my current ride.

    All the GG build kits are solid. That said if you can upgrade the fork and shock that would be a sweet investment and would pay dividends for all your riding.

    Kona makes fine bikes, but they've never really inspired me to give them any $$. Besides a car and a house my MTBs are my next biggest purchase so I want to be stoked about them. With GG you get made in 'Murica carbon and Devil's Horns thrown high.
    Yeah I'm pretty stoked on the coli tech from what I've been reading, and I like how you give them your weight and they base it on that. If the average Mountain biker is like 150-175 I want to be sure it's ready for my fat ass!

    I chose Kona originally just because there were only so many people making mid quality SS bikes and my LBS carried them, then I really liked it so just figured I'd stick with them. Most of their focus seems more on the Process though which is full travel and If I'm going mid or short travel they have less options.

    But yeah, pretty pumped on the customization aspects of GG along with the Murica.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    When I plugged my height in, it was spot on for full throttle, so I trust their recommendations.
    Trusting their configurator with an honest assessment of my riding (all around) puts me at size 3 which is the way I'm leaning.

    Added benefit of a higher chance of getting that one before my trip!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'll agree with Vik that something like the Trail Pistol would work very well for what you want. It would be a load of fun on your home trails and still have a lot of capability for bigger terrain. And if in the future you decide that you want a longer travel bike, then you can just get some Smash stays and shock. It's quite cool that with GG, you aren't really locked into one model of bike.

    For you hands, I can't recommend the MRP Ribbon Coil fork enough. It's been a saving grace for my aging hands.
    Thanks, looking like TP for sure. Most of my traveling is East Coast so still not super crazy. Last year in VT/NH kind of sucked with my bike because I had to walk some of the climbs and then ride brakes for chunks of the downhill. even with a front shock on a hard tail I could of had way more fun. Part of my reasoning for the Rigid SS originally was just budget and testing to make sure I'd enjoy the sport. now that i really like i I'm ready to commit some more funds.

    Thanks for the recommendation, I'm a little paranoid about long term or carpal tunnel type issues affecting my livelihood and recreation so want to start being more careful now.

    On thier build it looks like the only offer the Ribbon Air, will they let you swap in the Ribbon Coil instead?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I agree with everyone.. you can't go wrong with something like the TP or SD for what you are looking for. If you want to experiment slightly you can do so by overshocking the TP to 130mm (Pistola build) or you could go with a shorter stem on the larger size to bring feel in a bit.

    When I was demoing these for sizing last year (on the aluminum bike) I tried a Medium Smash, thanks to Scott2MTB, and then later tried a Xtra-Medium Smash, thanks to Nurse_Ben. This was due to the fact that, similar to you, I am 6' tall with a long torso/arms and short inseam (6' tall, +1.5" apex index and 31" inseam) which kinda put me between a medium and large for the aluminum bikes. I fit just about exactly the same on both with some cockpit tweaking and both performed, to my seat of the pants feel, exactly the same. This lead me to the Size 3 sizing for my All Around riding style which I will run a 50mm stem in the short position. But should I need to, I can run something like a 35mm stem in the Long and cut the difference slightly, lots of playing around available.

    Anyways, talk with GG, let them know what your working with and they won't steer you wrong. And even if they did happen to, I bet you anything they would probably work to make it right for ya!
    Could I go longer stem on the longer setting to stretch it a bit too then I guess if I go with the 3? Like if I ran a 60MM industry 9 A35 is that lengthening my reach over the stock 50 or a 35? Still trying to decipher what all these components do and measurements mean

    So did you end up ordering one of the new Carbons then?

    I will talk to GG probably next week or two, gotta sleep on it a bit more and wrap my head around dropping ~$5K on a bike

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdriscoll View Post
    I moved recently from the east coast to the Denver area and just got the smash. It would definitely be overkill for the east coast but I used to see SC nomads on XC loops so to each their own.

    I am planning on picking up the seat stay kit to make the smash a trail pistol for east coast riding, which I think will be a perfect bike for the terrain. I went with an MRP ribbon air since you can adjust it from 130mm-160mm, so I will only need one fork.
    Yeah I see people with overkill bikes a bunch too, depends on the taste I guess. One thing I'm hoping to do with the new bike is join in some group rides to meet some new bikers in the area. I went on a few last year but it was kind of a pain in the ass with my bike - I pass them on the uphills, they pass me on the downhills, repeat. I feel like I'm a pretty competent rider and not afraid of going fast from my old dirt biking days but with no shocks I get bounced around like crazy if I can't choose my lines pretty carefully so trough to ride in a close pack with folks on FS bikes.

    Yeah I was looking at the ribbon for the adjustability. Is that something where you tell them how to set it up or you do it yourself?

    I'll just add that the Ribbon coil has a similar range of travel.
    thanks, I'll def look into that coil, hopefully it's something GG will offer.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khai View Post
    Based on your descriptions I'd have to say that I agree with the majority here - TP is probably best suited for your local riding scene, paired with a Ribbon Coil for your hand/wrist issues. (You could also look into RevGrips or Flexx bars)

    If you travel occasionally it can handle damn near anything, but if you find yourself going big on a more regular basis then another shock and stay kit will get you a Smash for not a tonne more money.
    Right on, thanks. I was looking at those Revgrips the other night for vibration and what not. they look pretty cool too (IMO) if you get the black ones with the metal accents to match the GG decals or something. Have you used them yourself?

    I try to travel more then occasionally!! Typically not too many MTB specific trips though, just try to find trails near our family camping and stuff. But lots of the places the trails are still similar to here so TP still would be great. This Summers trip I'm hoping to hit approx-

    Freedom park - williamsbug VA
    Sherman Branch - Charlotte NC
    White water center - Charlotte NC
    Chewalca Sate Park - Alabama
    Timber lake trails - Destin Fl area
    Alfia State Park - Florida (tampa area)
    Santos bike park - Ocala Florida

    Again a lot of these are pretty easy, but they are near where I'll be.
    Anyone have other/better recs in those areas I'd be glad to hear em!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    On thier build it looks like the only offer the Ribbon Air, will they let you swap in the Ribbon Coil instead?
    GG will sell you the Ribbon Coil and pretty much anything else "off menu" you might want with your bike - you just need to contact them to ask. Pricing on certain items may not be quite as good as with their standard offerings due to a lack of volume discounts, but it's probably still cheaper than buying separately and trying to resell the take-offs.

    In 29" the Ribbon Coil is adjustable from 140-160mm in any increment - it's a clever system.

    Re: your other question I've not tried the RevGrips but have considered them. I had a bout of elbow tendinitis that took me out for a good chunk of last Summer that I'd prefer to avoid in the future.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Yeah I was looking at the ribbon for the adjustability. Is that something where you tell them how to set it up or you do it yourself?
    Yes. They'll set up the travel for you, but if you decide to change it later, it's about a one beer job. Unless you're me; then it takes one beer just to loosen a bolt.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    As stated previously, Trail Pistol makes more sense to me I think.


    Perfect. Now just stare at that "Buy It Now" button until you feel weak and press it. It's just a t-shirt right? Then throw the devil horns high! We've all done it.

    Safe riding,

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    Also, dude, ride what you want but try to get out in your area if you can. FredShed and Michaux are easy day trips from anywhere in MD. Then there's the whole Shenandoah area, starting with Elizabeth Furnace by distance. All up there with the best riding anywhere in my book, you wouldn't be over biked on any GG.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Yeah I guess any bike can work, just trying to find that sweet spot. Having fun and recovering faster sounds good to me! Only downside of being overbiked I'd say I'm more likely to knock out a 20+ mile ride then do a bunch of big drops on any given day so the pedaling efficiency of the Trail Pistol with slightly less suspensions sounds more suited.

    The recovering is why I'm leaning towards the Full Suspension. I honestly think I'd enjoy the Pedalhead a ton but I'm only in the market for one bike so I want it to be versatile for vacation and home and want to get in more mid ride weeks instead of just weekends so being a little easier on the upper body would be a huge plus.

    Yes I've seen the quiver killer phrase and the smash seems to fit, though it sounds like Trail pistol can do the same stuff maybe just a little slower. I'm not a speed demon at this point so maybe starting with the TP is a better fit.

    Saw this reply this morning and was thinking about it at work, guess what I'm looking for is just to have fun on the bike as often as possible as many places as possible, and for as many years as possible!
    Yeah if thatís the case, go for the Trail Pistol! Sounds like a perfect fit.

    You can always get a stay kit if you want to try the Smash later on, but start out with the Trail Pistol.

    As far as sizing, call GG and see what they recommend for you.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khai View Post
    GG will sell you the Ribbon Coil and pretty much anything else "off menu" you might want with your bike - you just need to contact them to ask. Pricing on certain items may not be quite as good as with their standard offerings due to a lack of volume discounts, but it's probably still cheaper than buying separately and trying to resell the take-offs.

    In 29" the Ribbon Coil is adjustable from 140-160mm in any increment - it's a clever system.

    Re: your other question I've not tried the RevGrips but have considered them. I had a bout of elbow tendinitis that took me out for a good chunk of last Summer that I'd prefer to avoid in the future.
    Nice, thanks for that info. I didn't realize I could go beyond their drop down selections.

    I'll probably give those revgrips a try; wish I'd of found them a month ago - just got new grips on my current bike.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Yes. They'll set up the travel for you, but if you decide to change it later, it's about a one beer job. Unless you're me; then it takes one beer just to loosen a bolt.
    Gotcha, guess I'll start with it at 140 and go from there.

    I'd probably be the same - slow mechanic and fast beer drinker!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    Perfect. Now just stare at that "Buy It Now" button until you feel weak and press it. It's just a t-shirt right? Then throw the devil horns high! We've all done it.

    C'mon man just try it everybody's doing it; lol.

    Still need to marinate on it a bit, but it's looking more like it's gonna happen.

    Maybe I'm overthinking the sizing - just call 3 long good and click buy as you suggest!

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    I have revgrips and I like them. The company is awesome. However I just switched out for Red Monkey Silicon grips which I like more. I think you get a lot of the same benefits as Revgrips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Maybe I'm overthinking the sizing - just call 3 long good and click buy as you suggest!
    On the old sizing I could have been fine on a large with a shorter stem, but I went with the medium and a longer stem. I figured for our tighter techy slow speed trails at home that was a better option. The bike fits great and no regrets.

    I did confirm my sizing with GG before I purchased.

    One thing to keep in mind is the seat tube angles [STA] on these GG bikes are fairly steep. That means the bars will be a lot closer to you than on a bike with a slacker STA. So depending how you look at the numbers the bike may look big, but the seated position feels small.

    When you are looking at fit compared to other bikes:

    - Reach/Stack will tell you how the bike will fit standing like when you are going downhill
    - Effective TT will tell you how the bike will fit siting like climbing

    That's obviously a simplified way to think about it, but that might help.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcro View Post
    Also, dude, ride what you want but try to get out in your area if you can. FredShed and Michaux are easy day trips from anywhere in MD. Then there's the whole Shenandoah area, starting with Elizabeth Furnace by distance. All up there with the best riding anywhere in my book, you wouldn't be over biked on any GG.
    Every year I say I'm going to explore more which I do to an extent. But for time/convenience/laziness I ride close to home the vast majority.

    Take this morning for example - slept until 7:30, left at 8:00 rode from my house to Fairland for about a 12 mile ride and back before 10:00 for some French toast/bacon/coffee and a quick shower before heading to my daughters softball practice at 10:45.

    To ride FredShed I'd of had to leave my house by 6 am at the latest to be back by 10 - 2 hours driving - 15 mins loading/unloading/screwing with gear/shoes/bike and like 1:45-2 hour ride vs me getting a 2 hour ride in today without the 2 hour truck time.

    That being said I do need to prioritize some time to get to some new spots. Michaux is a hike for me but a ski buddy of mine lives in Shippensburg PA that I've been wanting to ride with in the Summer so that could work out for meeting him.

    -------

    You "would'nt be over biked" comment is like in line with some other model decision threads I've read where people just go with the Smash for more versatility. Couple youtube videos I watched on Frederick today looked like some pretty beefy lines/rocks for sure.

    Still leaning trail pistol though for majority of my stuff; but nice to know there are some challenging trails reasonably close.

    You in the MD area?

    Outside of Fairland which is easy but 1 mile from my house so super convenient and easy to squeeze in on weeknights I typically ride-

    Patapsco - various areas
    Schaffer Farm
    Seneca/Muddy branch surrounding Moco stuff
    Rosaryville A few times

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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Yeah if thatís the case, go for the Trail Pistol! Sounds like a perfect fit.

    You can always get a stay kit if you want to try the Smash later on, but start out with the Trail Pistol.

    As far as sizing, call GG and see what they recommend for you.
    Thanks, I do think Trail Pistol will be a good fit.

    I talked to them once already but may give them another call. Sounds like 3 with stem in long position should be Ok though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    I have revgrips and I like them. The company is awesome. However I just switched out for Red Monkey Silicon grips which I like more. I think you get a lot of the same benefits as Revgrips.
    Thanks for the report, I've been eyeing them. got a couple months before the bike shows up I guess so have some time to think on grips.

    How come you switched over?

    Looks like the Red Monkey is a lot less money, how do you think that silicone holds up over time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Yeah I was looking at the ribbon for the adjustability. Is that something where you tell them how to set it up or you do it yourself?
    You tell them what you want when you order the bike and then you can swap it easy on your own if you have a little bit of mechanical ability.

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    A carbon 31.8mm-dia handlebar and a slightly fatter grip like a ESI Extra Chunky or Oury classic can provide added compliance for the hands. An Ergon GX1 grip can give great long-ride palsy relief, but you might not score points with the endurobros.

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    The trail pistol can be run with the shock from the shred dogg and be a trail pistola. Then you could have one shock two sets of chain stays and two rad trail rockets.

    Buy the pistola with a reduced offset fork. Shred dog seat stays and your a wheel set away from two bikes. Boom, problem solver.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdriscoll View Post
    You tell them what you want when you order the bike and then you can swap it easy on your own if you have a little bit of mechanical ability.
    Cool thanks, think I'll start with 140.

    I'm a carpenter/contractor so I have a fair amount of mechanical ability with house stuff. Never got into bike repairs and usually just take it to my LBS; might be time to learn though...if I drop $5K on a bike the repair fund is gonna be pretty light!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    A carbon 31.8mm-dia handlebar and a slightly fatter grip like a ESI Extra Chunky or Oury classic can provide added compliance for the hands. An Ergon GX1 grip can give great long-ride palsy relief, but you might not score points with the endurobros.
    The ESI chunky look similar to the silicone Red Monkey type someone else mentioned. Guess I'd have to feel them in person to see what I thought.

    My cargo bike has some grips like those GX1 with those like flat wings, not a huge fan myself they never seem comfortable-especially when climbing/standing.

    I'm sure there are threads here on grips and stuff. Once I get the bike ordered I'll research them a bit more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chileconqueso View Post
    The trail pistol can be run with the shock from the shred dogg and be a trail pistola. Then you could have one shock two sets of chain stays and two rad trail rockets.

    Buy the pistola with a reduced offset fork. Shred dog seat stays and your a wheel set away from two bikes. Boom, problem solver.
    Sounds confusing

    Think I'll focus on one bike for now! Def sounds like the GG's are versatile though with options for switching stuff up should I find I want more travel.

    Getting even more pumped with going with them

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    On the old sizing I could have been fine on a large with a shorter stem, but I went with the medium and a longer stem. I figured for our tighter techy slow speed trails at home that was a better option. The bike fits great and no regrets.

    I did confirm my sizing with GG before I purchased.

    One thing to keep in mind is the seat tube angles [STA] on these GG bikes are fairly steep. That means the bars will be a lot closer to you than on a bike with a slacker STA. So depending how you look at the numbers the bike may look big, but the seated position feels small.

    When you are looking at fit compared to other bikes:

    - Reach/Stack will tell you how the bike will fit standing like when you are going downhill
    - Effective TT will tell you how the bike will fit siting like climbing

    That's obviously a simplified way to think about it, but that might help.
    Thanks for the primer, simplified version is what I need! So to what I bold-ed That's my fear that it will feel to small in the cockpit in Size 3.

    Re-measured my Ape Index last night - 6' 2" height - 6'6" arms -No wonder shirts don't fit me right! That's why I want to make sure I have a similar reach to what I have, not way shorter.

    Reach and Stack look similar (pistol actually a touch bigger) to my current vs Size 3 Pistol:

    Kona Unit XL ----- Reach 19 inch Stack 23.7
    Trail Pistol Size 3- Reach 19.4 Stack 24.4

    But as you mention it's affected by the STA:

    Kona - 74
    TP ---74 but with effective 78.1

    Kona doesn't list an effective?

    With my current SS I stand climbing a lot too, but do want comfort for the flat sitting. Hard to make apples to apples comparison on TT again because Kona list actual vs GG effective-

    Kona TT - 25.8
    TP size 3 -Effective TT at 24.6


    All that being said I'm not claiming my current bike is even a prefect fit; jut all have to compare to.

    Looks like size 4 would be an extra .8 reach, .7 stack, and .9 effective top tube. No idea how much difference that makes.

    If I'm being totally honest with all the reading and researching I've done in the last week or two I don't feel I really know that much more! Guess I'll give them another call this week now that I've narrowed it to the TP and talk size again.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    If I'm being totally honest with all the reading and researching I've done in the last week or two I don't feel I really know that much more! Guess I'll give them another call this week now that I've narrowed it to the TP and talk size again.
    Talking to GG is a good call.

    In your post above you talked about Reach being affected by the STA. The Reach is not affected by the STA. Keep Reach and Stack - standing fit separate from the Eff TT which is affected by the STA. When you are standing the saddle position/STA is not part of the fit equation.

    The TP Size 3 will be a bigger bike standing than the Kona based on what you posted and a smaller bike seated.

    It definitely gets confusing! GG has fit hundreds of riders so they know what they are talking about.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Talking to GG is a good call.

    The TP Size 3 will be a bigger bike standing than the Kona based on what you posted and a smaller bike seated.

    It definitely gets confusing! GG has fit hundreds of riders so they know what they are talking about.
    Called them today!

    Yeah that's what I was thinking which I don't really want it to be smaller sitting since we have a lot of rolling flatish trails there is a fair amount of sitting. Just a question of if the Size 4 will feel huge standing - I feel like climbing it would be fine since your leaning forward, descending not as sure.

    Yeah it does get confusing, for me at least. Still nice to have options though compared to like a motorcycle where it's one size fit's most or none.

    Talking to two different folks there they both recommended size 4 though today they asked for an additional measurement off my current bike (center of saddle to center of stem) so I emailed that to them and I'll see if that changes their recc.

    And of course Size 4 means it'll be a lot longer, but worth the wait if that's the fit they recommend.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Called them today!

    Yeah that's what I was thinking which I don't really want it to be smaller sitting since we have a lot of rolling flatish trails there is a fair amount of sitting. Just a question of if the Size 4 will feel huge standing - I feel like climbing it would be fine since your leaning forward, descending not as sure.

    Yeah it does get confusing, for me at least. Still nice to have options though compared to like a motorcycle where it's one size fit's most or none.

    Talking to two different folks there they both recommended size 4 though today they asked for an additional measurement off my current bike (center of saddle to center of stem) so I emailed that to them and I'll see if that changes their recc.

    And of course Size 4 means it'll be a lot longer, but worth the wait if that's the fit they recommend.
    Not saying you should do this, but just presenting as a case study. I went with the smaller of the two sizes I could ride....medium instead of large and then used a 1" setback dropper post to make the seated position bigger. That gave me the shorter bike with the generous seated cockpit. I like slacker STAs so that's great for me. YMMV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Not saying you should do this, but just presenting as a case study. I went with the smaller of the two sizes I could ride....medium instead of large and then used a 1" setback dropper post to make the seated position bigger. That gave me the shorter bike with the generous seated cockpit. I like slacker STAs so that's great for me. YMMV.
    Yeah I thought about that and remember you mentioned it here or in another thread.

    In theory that would give me more similar seated ride to my current bike reach wise, though don't know how it affects the pedaling angle or whatever but seems like it would work.

    Does the 9point8 fallline they offer have that setback or is there another you'd recommend more? What's another $250

    -----------

    So GG emailed me back and for the saddle to stem length -size 3 with 60mm is 1/2" shorter then my current ride which they said for a FS enduro style bike and my terrain that's not the end of the world.

    But if I really liked my current feel a size 4 with a 32 stem would be right around my current or a touch longer.

    REALLY feels like we're splitting hairs here so I'm just not sure how much difference it makes. I'd also like to learn to manual better and mess around with that kind of stuff which I assume is a bit easier on the smaller bike.

    ----------

    As even another data point I looked at the Transition Patrol I rented in Moab, only rode it 3 days but represents 75% of my full suspension experience!

    It was an XL size which looking at the various measurements basically falls in between GG's 3 and 4 but mostly closer to the 3. Granted that's a full travel 27.5 vs the Trail Pistol being a short travel 29er so still not an exact comparison.

    Starting to see hwy there is so much debate and discussion around all this geo, sizing, components, and what not...it's like endless. I mainly like to just get on and ride!!

    ------

    Thanks for all the feedback everyone, I really don't know a ton about this stuff and it's a lot of Cash for my budget so just trying to make the right choice.

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    Couple other (non size) related questions-

    I'd like to get a bashguard, any of the MRP's they offer particularly better then others?

    Sounds like there are no Outposts In Maryland so I'd probably just get it shipped to me direct. How hard is it to put this thing together? Would it make sense to just drop it at a shop after I get it and pay them for assembly/tune up..if so any guess as to what that would cost.

    Assuming I end up with the 3 frame should I go longer on the dropper - stock is 150, would the 170 do it or should I go all the way to 200. Is the 9point8 a big upgrade over the SDG? I'd originally planned to focus most of my upgrade money to the MRP coil shock/fork.

    -------------

    Starting to get PUMPED; might actually order this thing soon I've been reading through the long thread on the Trail Pistol; seems everyone really likes it a lot.

    Was originally planning late 2020 for my 40th B-day so if I get it late this Spring that's two whole extra riding seasons.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Yeah I thought about that and remember you mentioned it here or in another thread.

    In theory that would give me more similar seated ride to my current bike reach wise, though don't know how it affects the pedaling angle or whatever but seems like it would work.

    Does the 9point8 fallline they offer have that setback or is there another you'd recommend more? What's another $250
    9.8 is the only option for a quality long travel setback dropper. Based on what you posted with a 1" setback dropper you could replicate your current bike seated fit with a 50mm stem which is a nice length. Not too long or too short.

    Obviously the setback dropper means a slacker seated pedalling position. I like that and climb better that way and like rolling terrain pedalling better that way, but some people like it with the saddle more forward over the BB. No way to tell what's best for you other than going with what you think or getting a demo.
    Last edited by vikb; 04-02-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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    The issue with the size 4 is a longer ST, more standover(?), and a much longer reach and tt compared to the XL Patrol.

    So your XL Unit has a really short reach, 40mm less than a size 3 Trail Pistol, granted the Unit has a longer tt than thecTeail Pisyol, but that can be explained with the differences in STA.

    A 50mm stem ainít that long. Iíd rather have that over a top tube in my crotch and a short dropper.

    Add some stack with a riser bar. Add some setback with set back post.

    You may also find that the steeper HTA will make the cockpit feel a little longer.

    Iím 6í and Iíll run the size 3 headset in the short position to start, currently riding an Xmedium (large) Smash.

    Sadly you are right on the line for choosing sizes, typically Iíd recommend longer cuz shorter sucks. But too long will suck too. Demo if you can.
    Lrg GG Shred Dogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    When I plugged my height in, it was spot on for full throttle, so I trust their recommendations.
    No more Knolly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHROMAG19 View Post
    No more Knolly?
    I was just perusing the GG site like I do with most bike manufacturers to keep current.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for ďI suck at brake control.Ē Hereís a free tip: get better."

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    I'm also new to the brand and exactly the same size as the OP: 6'2" with a longer torso and shorter legs. I struggled for weeks to figure out what I wanted - weighing this geo against that geo - and I settled on the Size 3.

    Here's the thing. I'm coming off a 2017 Commencal Meta AM V4.2 Large that - on paper - everyone would say is too small. I love that bike. I absolutely adore most everything about it. I live on the east coast and ride super technical stuff. I head up to the bike parks as often as I can (HIGHLAND!!!), and also enjoy 30 mile spins at Kingdom trails with loads of climbing. I do all of it on that Commencal. Never have I felt like it's way too small. According to all the new trends though...IT IS! It's also the 'wrong' bike for the type of terrain I ride (YOU DON'T NEED ALL THAT TRAVEL!). Well, for everything I do...it was perfect. The only reason I'm switching bikes is that I wanted to return to 29. I'm selling my Commencal (for cheap) to a friend who is dying to get back into mountain biking. He is going to freak out when he realizes how capable that bike is. He's about 6' and has no frame of reference for new wicked long bikes or long travel.

    The size 3 Long Smash is longer than my Commencal by what appears to be a dramatic amount (478R vs. 448R, 630S vs 612S, and 625TT vs 618TT), but with all these geo numbers, we are often talking about the difference of 1-3cm (like and inch, bro!). I know people are way more dialed in than me in terms of preference...they feel the difference between anything and everything. I ride it til I get used to it and I'm fine. When I got that Commencal, I was not nervous at all. I came off a Scott Genius 910 Large that was similar in size. By the time I got the bike, everything was going longer and I started to feel inadequate. I chalk this up to the ever-evolving industry finding ways to keep selling bikes. Obviously there are big differences between other sizes/bikes that make a huge difference in feeling, but this size 3 doesn't represent that. It's perfect.

    Honestly, for East Coast tech, keeping everything a little bit smaller ain't so bad. I also agree with Nurse Ben that a 50mm stem isn't that long. Nor is a 60mm for that matter. The geo of this large is so long compared to most bikes 4 years ago and we all had fun on those bikes.

    Ultimately, my opinions aren't worth much. Everyone is different. I just wanted to give you a perspective that might help ease your mind. Hell, my mind was in a similar state to yours as I jumped down this GG rabbit hole. I'm pretty excited about this adventure though. I intended to order an aluminum frame early this year - right at the time the Revved announcement came out - and it through me for a loop. I'm now at peace with my decision. It's just not that far off to make any dramatic difference.

    Sorry for my meandering rant.

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    I didn't want to start a new thread so I figure I'd ask in here since it's a similar topic. I ride N. Texas predominately and my local trail has some fast chunky stuff with 2-4 ft drops that we can session but it's mostly pedal fest XC type trails(6-8 mile 350-500 ft climbing loops) I do get out to Central Texas(Spider Mountain, and other enduro style trails), NWA, and Angel Fire a few times a year as well as the occasional enduro race. I had an Evil Wreckoning and loved it but I found that for me it didn't pedal as well as I had hoped. Eventually switched to a SC Hightower LT and while it doesn't descend as well as the Wreckoning it does pedal a lot better and has been a better balance for what I like to do.

    Now I'm stuck in the marketing hype of seat tube angles and what not and have been looking around. There really isn't much that I'm interested in switching to except the Smash. I couldn't really imagine it being a much better bike than the HTLT but what does have my interest is having the bits for a Trail Pistol for lunch/after work XC laps and a coiled Smash for weekend fun stuff or racing.

    Is the difference that much between the Smash and TP that it's worth switching between the two? I know the carbon versions are pretty rare but has anyone ridden the HTLT and Smash that could compare the differences?

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    I think the difference will be pretty big between the two bikes, I'm looking forward to getting the trail pistol stays and an inline shock to have a different bike for mellower trails (I ride front range Colorado so the Smash is perfect for that).

    I'm surprised you though the SC HTLT climbed so well. I demoed it on the east coast and didn't love how it pedaled, but when I was on the east coast that was the biggest bike I demoed. That being said I do think that the Smash pedals better and for descending I think it is pretty similar to an Evil. I never rode a Wreckoning but in my first ride on the new Smash I said it felt like a big Following MB.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamchris View Post
    Is the difference that much between the Smash and TP that it's worth switching between the two? I know the carbon versions are pretty rare but has anyone ridden the HTLT and Smash that could compare the differences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdriscoll View Post
    I think the difference will be pretty big between the two bikes, I'm looking forward to getting the trail pistol stays and an inline shock to have a different bike for mellower trails (I ride front range Colorado so the Smash is perfect for that).

    I'm surprised you though the SC HTLT climbed so well. I demoed it on the east coast and didn't love how it pedaled, but when I was on the east coast that was the biggest bike I demoed. That being said I do think that the Smash pedals better and for descending I think it is pretty similar to an Evil. I never rode a Wreckoning but in my first ride on the new Smash I said it felt like a big Following MB.
    Yeah I've been looking at an xc/trail bike for the same reasons. For me it makes sense to do a swap to a Smash/TP combo than buying a 2nd full bike. In the past, I've been pretty guilty of following the flavor of the month trying to find the right balance and I think I've settled on just going the N+1 route and here I am...the next flavor of the month

    Compared to the Wreckoning the HTLT climbed better and pedaled better on the flats for me. I've demo'd a couple of other 29er LT bikes and they just didn't have the balance of climbing and descending of the HTLT. If I can upgrade in both area's or stay the same, but add a mellow bike then its a win for me.

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    I haven't ridden said bikes, however, I was in Denver last week and got a tour of the GG operation. They had some smashes bulit up and I must say those rigs looked freaking sick; oversized tubes and detailed crafsmanship made it look like it could smash through anything, and pretty darn light as well.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I was just perusing the GG site like I do with most bike manufacturers to keep current.
    Travis is getting a Knoll-E Carbon Endorphin e-bike next. He works at a Knolly dealer so he's gonna ride their product.
    Last edited by vikb; 04-03-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    9.8 is the only option for a quality long travel setback dropper. Based on what you posted with a 1" setback dropper you could replicate your current bike seated fit with a 50mm stem which is a nice length. Not too long or too short.

    Obviously the setback dropper means a slacker seated pedalling position. I like that and climb better that way and like rolling terrain pedalling better that way, but some people like it with the saddle more forward over the BB. No way to tell what's best for you other than going with what you think or getting a demo.
    Ok, cool. They are recommending Size 3 with 60 mm stem, and 800 mm bars and then not needing the offset dropper. Looks like the offset is adjustable so I guess I could always get the 9.8 anyway to leave the option open for additional tweaking.

    Yeah I'm having a hard time visualizing what is/would be better. Like I say above getting the upgraded dropper would give me the chance to try both and see how it feels.

    One article I was reading on being between sizes was recommending sizing up if you have long arms (which I have) or sizing down if your hip flexibility is poor (which mine is) so once again 50/50!! Even with my long arms I can't even touch my toes though so I'm wondering now if the shorter reach on the 3 would be fine even with my wingspan for a more casual riding position.

    Also evaluating my local terrain and interest the "playfulness" of a smaller bike might be more fun. I'd like to practice obstacles and get a manual down and stuff which I can screw around with at my home trails or even just messing around the yard or campground with kids or whatever. Probably spend more time doing that then bombing along needing the longer WB of the 4.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Sadly you are right on the line for choosing sizes, typically Iíd recommend longer cuz shorter sucks. But too long will suck too.

    Demo if you can.
    Well, you've summed up my dilemma well!

    So looks like the Cane Creek demo tour (with a carbon GG smash size 3 on board) will actually be about 2-3 hours south of me this Saturday. No idea if the event will be open to non registered riders (tried emailing/calling with no luck) or how crowded it will be. But I think I'm going to chance it and try to go down.

    Worst case I burn some time in the truck; got a book I can listen to anyway. Best case I'll feel more confident in my decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The issue with the size 4 is a longer ST, more standover(?), and a much longer reach and tt compared to the XL Patrol.

    So your XL Unit has a really short reach, 40mm less than a size 3 Trail Pistol, granted the Unit has a longer tt than thecTeail Pisyol, but that can be explained with the differences in STA.

    A 50mm stem ainít that long. Iíd rather have that over a top tube in my crotch and a short dropper.

    Add some stack with a riser bar. Add some setback with set back post.

    You may also find that the steeper HTA will make the cockpit feel a little longer.

    Iím 6í and Iíll run the size 3 headset in the short position to start, currently riding an Xmedium (large) Smash.
    So your gut conclusion is size 3 with adjustments via stem and setback dropper? that's the way I'm leaning too

    Hoping the $250 extra for the 9.8 doesn't throw me over my $5K budget or I may have to back off one of the shock upgrades. It's showing $4,695 but that doesn't include tax and shipping. Took some time to get my wife on board to move it up from $3,500 to $5K and from Fall 2020 to Spring 2019 so....need to stay in that $5K

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    Quote Originally Posted by spaztwelve View Post
    I'm also new to the brand and exactly the same size as the OP: 6'2" with a longer torso and shorter legs. I struggled for weeks to figure out what I wanted - weighing this geo against that geo - and I settled on the Size 3.

    Here's the thing. I'm coming off a 2017 Commencal Meta AM V4.2 Large that - on paper - everyone would say is too small. I love that bike. I absolutely adore most everything about it. I live on the east coast and ride super technical stuff. I head up to the bike parks as often as I can (HIGHLAND!!!), and also enjoy 30 mile spins at Kingdom trails with loads of climbing. I do all of it on that Commencal. Never have I felt like it's way too small. According to all the new trends though...IT IS! It's also the 'wrong' bike for the type of terrain I ride (YOU DON'T NEED ALL THAT TRAVEL!). Well, for everything I do...it was perfect. The only reason I'm switching bikes is that I wanted to return to 29. I'm selling my Commencal (for cheap) to a friend who is dying to get back into mountain biking. He is going to freak out when he realizes how capable that bike is. He's about 6' and has no frame of reference for new wicked long bikes or long travel.

    The size 3 Long Smash is longer than my Commencal by what appears to be a dramatic amount (478R vs. 448R, 630S vs 612S, and 625TT vs 618TT), but with all these geo numbers, we are often talking about the difference of 1-3cm (like and inch, bro!). I know people are way more dialed in than me in terms of preference...they feel the difference between anything and everything. I ride it til I get used to it and I'm fine. When I got that Commencal, I was not nervous at all. I came off a Scott Genius 910 Large that was similar in size. By the time I got the bike, everything was going longer and I started to feel inadequate. I chalk this up to the ever-evolving industry finding ways to keep selling bikes. Obviously there are big differences between other sizes/bikes that make a huge difference in feeling, but this size 3 doesn't represent that. It's perfect.

    Honestly, for East Coast tech, keeping everything a little bit smaller ain't so bad. I also agree with Nurse Ben that a 50mm stem isn't that long. Nor is a 60mm for that matter. The geo of this large is so long compared to most bikes 4 years ago and we all had fun on those bikes.

    Ultimately, my opinions aren't worth much. Everyone is different. I just wanted to give you a perspective that might help ease your mind. Hell, my mind was in a similar state to yours as I jumped down this GG rabbit hole. I'm pretty excited about this adventure though. I intended to order an aluminum frame early this year - right at the time the Revved announcement came out - and it through me for a loop. I'm now at peace with my decision. It's just not that far off to make any dramatic difference.

    Sorry for my meandering rant.
    Hey I appreciate the rant and info! Glad to see I'm not the only one pondering this stuff and all the input does help ease my mind and make me feel like I'm making a more informed decision.

    In my younger/dumber days I've bought Sports cars and Motorcycles without much thought and lost lots of $$$ selling them later. Not doing that kind of stuff anymore!

    I'm thinking I'm in the same camp as you on the "ride it until I get used too" and not necessarily able to feel/tell every difference.

    Just for example my Original Kona Unit was actually a 2013 and it was stolen and then I replaced with my 2016. During that time they changed the sizes and geometry a fair bit (reach from 17.9 to 19, stack from 24.7 to 23.7, new angles, etc.) and I had no clue until I googled it the other day when doing this research.

    Granted I rode the two bikes like 6 months apart not back to back, but still I have well over 1000 miles on each and wracked my memory to see if I remembered or noticed any differences and I really don't??

    So for me and my experience I think your probably right with your assessment that it's just not that far off to make a dramatic difference.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Ok, cool. They are recommending Size 3 with 60 mm stem, and 800 mm bars and then not needing the offset dropper. Looks like the offset is adjustable so I guess I could always get the 9.8 anyway to leave the option open for additional tweaking.
    That ^^^ all sounds totally reasonable. If you can make it to that demo event that would be ideal.

    To take some stress off you with the stem/dropper adjustments you would probably be happy on a Size 3 or a Size 4. You might prefer one over the other, but you are not picking between total success and total failure. You'll end up with a smile on your face either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Hoping the $250 extra for the 9.8 doesn't throw me over my $5K budget or I may have to back off one of the shock upgrades. It's showing $4,695 but that doesn't include tax and shipping. Took some time to get my wife on board to move it up from $3,500 to $5K and from Fall 2020 to Spring 2019 so....need to stay in that $5K
    Delete the 9.8, those things leak down and it's a PITA and $$$ to get them fixed. Get a One Up 170mm dropper for $200 and a Wolf Tooth lever for $50.

    So I'm 6' with longer arms, 2018 aluminum Smash running a 35mm stem, 15mm riser bar, ~20mm spacers, 160mm fork, 170mm dropper slammed, and it feels good. I could ride shorter with a longer stem, but I couldn't ride longer; I test rode a medium and it felt short.

    The Size 4 in short mode is 23mm longer in the TT (625 vs 648) and 18mm longer in the reach (478 vs 496) than a Size 3 in long mode, so that could work for you if you wanted to run a 35mm stem UNLESS it's too long in which case there really is no way to go shorter.

    It really comes down to how far you want to stretch out and what you're used to riding. How did the XL Patrol ride? Did it feel too long? The XL Patrol has a 500mm reach and a 640mm TT, so very comparable to the Size 4 in short.

    Before my Smash, I was riding shorter bikes and have gradually increased my reach on purpose to improve downhill performance, but there is such thing as too long, and a too long front center is hard to fix; slide the seat forward and sweep bars back. I had to raise the bars on my XC bike 10mm recently cuz it was putting too much pressure on my hands and my neck was getting sore, it has a long reach.

    If you can straddle a Rev Size 3 in the long setting, see how the cockpit feels as you do a few tight turns, note seat position, cockpit layout, and stem length. If it doesn't feel crowded, then it's probably fine. You can always trade in or sell later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Delete the 9.8, those things leak down and it's a PITA and $$$ to get them fixed.
    I have a 9.8 on both my bikes. No issues. If you want the option for a setback dropper it's the only option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I have a 9.8 on both my bikes. No issues. If you want the option for a setback dropper it's the only option.
    The setback option is nice, but I've had so many issues with 9.8 as a company and a brand, the warranty return process for folks in the states is ridiculously expensive.

    Looks like Giant and Specialized offer a set back.

    Also, buying an inexpensive post to start opens the option for getting a set back post later if needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That ^^^ all sounds totally reasonable. If you can make it to that demo event that would be ideal.

    To take some stress off you with the stem/dropper adjustments you would probably be happy on a Size 3 or a Size 4. You might prefer one over the other, but you are not picking between total success and total failure. You'll end up with a smile on your face either way.
    Yeah really hoping it works out and 95 isn't a shit show. The location of the event can be 1.5 hours from my house or 3+ so have to assess traffic after my Daughters softball game and make the call.

    Good reminder thanks, and without trying both I may never know anyway so it should be fine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So I'm 6' with longer arms, 2018 aluminum Smash running a 35mm stem, 15mm riser bar, ~20mm spacers, 160mm fork, 170mm dropper slammed, and it feels good. I could ride shorter with a longer stem, but I couldn't ride longer; I test rode a medium and it felt short.

    The Size 4 in short mode is 23mm longer in the TT (625 vs 648) and 18mm longer in the reach (478 vs 496) than a Size 3 in long mode, so that could work for you if you wanted to run a 35mm stem UNLESS it's too long in which case there really is no way to go shorter.

    It really comes down to how far you want to stretch out and what you're used to riding. How did the XL Patrol ride? Did it feel too long? The XL Patrol has a 500mm reach and a 640mm TT, so very comparable to the Size 4 in short.
    Well what I'm most used to riding is the two Konas last 6 years at 2000+ miles, I might have put 30ish on the Patrol in Moab so pretty small sample size comparatively.

    2013 Kona - 17.9 reach
    2016 Kona - 19 reach
    2019 Size 3 TP with 50 mm stem - 19.4 reach
    2019 Size 4 TP with 50 mm stem - 20.2 Reach

    2019 Size 3 TP with a 60 mm Stem -19.8ish Reach (guessing) plus a bit wider bar 800 mm (over my current 780) and I'm thinking it'll be pretty close.

    Converting 500mm to inches is 19.685 so it's actually close to a size 3 but basically half way in between which is what I saw the other day and be almost the same if I did 60mm stem....any big disadvantage to going to 60?

    As far as how the XL Patrol felt, fine I guess?? My first day I did a warm up ride at Deadhorse State Park and then did Slick Rock and Captain Ahab the next two days which were pretty intense rides for me so I was more focused on survival then the bike I think :P

    Before my Smash, I was riding shorter bikes and have gradually increased my reach on purpose to improve downhill performance, but there is such thing as too long, and a too long front center is hard to fix; slide the seat forward and sweep bars back. I had to raise the bars on my XC bike 10mm recently cuz it was putting too much pressure on my hands and my neck was getting sore, it has a long reach.
    Well I figure a 3 or 4 will be a big downhill improvement to my Rigid bike!

    Defintley don't want to much pressure on the hands since upper body fatigue and hand/grip issues is part of what I'm trying to fix with the FS. The shorter reach could be a plus in that situation then it sounds like.

    If you can straddle a Rev Size 3 in the long setting, see how the cockpit feels as you do a few tight turns, note seat position, cockpit layout, and stem length. If it doesn't feel crowded, then it's probably fine
    Thanks, I'll try and do that. Will it be pretty obvious if it's in the short or long position? Or hopefully the Cane Creek guys will know which it is. REALLY hope I get to ride one now. Hopefully if I do it won't restart the Smash/Trail Pistol decision...this size decision is enough!

    You can always trade in or sell later.
    Yeah I guess I can, but assume that would be at a big loss/deprecation so I'd rather not go that way. If I had to re-sell this bike then whatever I got would be the budget for the new bike so I would either have to buy used myself or significantly down grade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Hopefully if I do it won't restart the Smash/Trail Pistol decision...this size decision is enough!
    So what about the Shred Dogg?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So what about the Shred Dogg?

    That's enough out of you!!!

    Haha.

    -------------------------

    GG emailed me to say unfortunately the event for tomm has been canceled. Bummer but nice of them to give me the heads up to save me the wasted trip.

    -----------

    They also said their official recc is a size 4 short stem, some confusion or misunderstanding originally I guess.

    That's really been my gut feeling the whole time, my very first mountain bike (before the Konas) was undersized and I really hated it. So despite the longer wait I think I'm going to go ahead with the 4.

    My LBS where I bought both My Konas, my wife's bike, my daughters bikes and get all my service done is having their big demo day in two weeks. They actually hold it at a popular local state park/trail system so you have a chance to try stuff out for real instead of just the parking lot. Part of me is like it would be simpler to just go ride a couple there and buy something off the rack.

    But everyone here speaks so highly of GG it seems like ti'll be worth the wait/inconvenience. Pumped to try out the coil shocks too which seem good for my larger size, hand/upper body stress, and lower maintenance. SO the ability to upgrade/change some aspects without paying full out custom prices is pretty sweet. Plus of course the small biz and american made aspect.

    So even though the 4's are a ways out I'm going to try to make out my mind by next weekend. I don't feel like waffling about it forever and I want to get on the list early!

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    I lean toward long these days after riding too short for years and not knowing any better.

    You can slide your seat forward for 10mm, even run a top mount stem if it really feels too long.

    Bummer you gotta wait, but if you get that order in soon, you could be on the early list.

    Did you decide on wheel size 🤔
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I lean toward long these days after riding too short for years and not knowing any better.

    You can slide your seat forward for 10mm, even run a top mount stem if it really feels too long.

    Bummer you gotta wait, but if you get that order in soon, you could be on the early list.

    Did you decide on wheel size 🤔
    Yeah I'm thinking of maybe going with the 40mm stem over the 50?

    Does stink to wait but oh well.

    29 wheels, probably just roll with the DT Swiss M 1900 i30 they spec in the ride 2 build

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    Order/deposit placed for the size 4 Trail Pistol !!

    Thanks for the advice everyone, pumped to have my first Full Suspension bike be from an American Made small company!!

    Now I have probably 4-6 weeks to finalize my build before they contact me to place the full order

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Order/deposit placed for the size 4 Trail Pistol !!


    Welcome to the trail party!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Nice!

    Itíll be worth the wait. Iím tempted to get a TP too, build it up as lightweight for endurance riding, but I just got an XC frame...

    Iím hoping my SD frame gets here soon, got s couple trips planned this month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Order/deposit placed for the size 4 Trail Pistol !!

    Thanks for the advice everyone, pumped to have my first Full Suspension bike be from an American Made small company!!

    Now I have probably 4-6 weeks to finalize my build before they contact me to place the full order
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    Welcome to the trail party!
    Thanks, EH!!

    If not for your introduction I'd probably never have found or heard of GG.

    Now I gotta make the hard choices like Decal color, shock/fork, stem length etc.

    Just realized that Cane Creek demo tour with the Smash I had hoped to see in VA is slated to be in PA mid May. If it works out I might try to get up there. It's at an event I've been wanting to check out anyway (Dirt Rag Dirt Fest)

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Nice!

    Itíll be worth the wait. Iím tempted to get a TP too, build it up as lightweight for endurance riding, but I just got an XC frame...

    Iím hoping my SD frame gets here soon, got s couple trips planned this month.
    Thanks!

    Yeah I think it will be worth the wait. Really stoked to be getting a semi built to order bike from a small US company!!

    Nice, hope it shows up in time for you. I've given up hope of getting the Size 4 for my trip, but sounds like it'll most likely come during the trip so it will be give me something to look forward to upon return. I'm anticipating a rude awakening getting back to the grind after a sweet sweet month off so new bike could ease the pain/transition a bit

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    Awesome!

    I think that bike was made for you and your style of riding.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    I've given up hope of getting the Size 4 for my trip, but sounds like it'll most likely come during the trip so it will be give me something to look forward to upon return.
    Given that this is a totally new process and the Size 4 molds haven't been made yet I would just turn off the part of your brain expecting the new RevveD GG on a specific date and just enjoy the blissed out "I ordered a new bike vibe!" They'll get it to you as fast as they can, but there are likely to be some snags and delays. It's worth the wait so just save yourself the anxiety/disappointment of too much anticipation for a specific delivery date.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Awesome!

    I think that bike was made for you and your style of riding.
    yeah Man, I hope so!!

    Leaning heavily to the Ribbon Coil also which you recommended. Pair it with the Hazzard should be pretty sweet!

    ----------

    Anyone have strong pedal rec's?

    Been looking at the Diety Black Kat and the One up aluminum.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Given that this is a totally new process and the Size 4 molds haven't been made yet I would just turn off the part of your brain expecting the new RevveD GG on a specific date and just enjoy the blissed out "I ordered a new bike vibe!" They'll get it to you as fast as they can, but there are likely to be some snags and delays. It's worth the wait so just save yourself the anxiety/disappointment of too much anticipation for a specific delivery date.
    Yeah that's what I'm doing. They're saying June but I'm just assuming July or even August which is fine. Even later then that would still be 6+ months sooner then my original plan for next Spring.

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    Kona wah wah 2s are pretty great. I have a size 10.5 foot and they fit perfect. Pretty large platform.

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    I have Deity Bladerunners and love them. Probably gonna do Tmacs for my next bike.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Kona wah wah 2s are pretty great. I have a size 10.5 foot and they fit perfect. Pretty large platform.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky697 View Post
    I have Deity Bladerunners and love them. Probably gonna do Tmacs for my next bike.
    Cool thanks, have to check them both out.

    ----------------------------

    Just purchased/reserved a ticket and camping for a weekend bike festival (Dirt Rag Dirt Fest in PA) in a few weeks. Bunch of vendors there so I'll try and check out some pedals in person.

    And most importantly the Cane Creek Demo tour will be there with their Size 3 Smash's in tow. Going to try to get up there right when it opens Friday Afternoon to get on one since I figure Sat/Sun will be way more crowded and in demand.

    Been wanting to check out the Rays town Lake/Allegippis trails system for years so I'm looking forward to a great weekend of Mountain biking! My pre-order T-shirt and GG hat showed up just in time so I can rep the Horns high stoke up there

    Got out for a few rides on my local loop the last few weeks and heading up to Pataspco State park to ride with a friend tomm afternoon. Gotta get in peak riding shape so I can do the Trail Pistol justice when it arrives

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    So look what I found at Dirt Fest last weekend:
    To GG or not to GG, and if so which one, size, components???-trail-pistol-dirt-fest.jpg

    I thought they only had a few Smash's but apparently they added this bad boy to the Cane Creek demo event a few weeks ago.

    Initial impressions- (keeping in mind I have limited FS experience/comparison)

    -Bike RIPS, I realized my only two Full suspension experiences were in Moab/Vegas where its super rocky and unfamiliar terrain. Here I rode the Trail pistol on a downhill piece I had already ridden earlier in the day and the night before on terrain more similar to the East Coast dirt I'm used to and.....it was freaking fast. The rear shock just glues you to the ground, it honestly reminded me of my old dirt bike days.

    -The ~130/130 set up seemed great to me for the type of terrain I'm going to be riding. I had initially considered riding the Smash back to back to compare but since they only had a couple bikes it was a long wait so I didn't bother. But I can't anticipate needing more travel then the TP has very often, and as someone mentioned up thread going from a rigid bike to the smash would be a really huge adjustment

    -I'd been sometimes wondering if I should just get a nice hard tail with a 1 X drive train instead because it would work fine for most of my riding; but now I'm confident in my decision to go FS. You barely even notice the shock is there; it just does it's thing. I'm so used to hopping my front wheel over stuff and then waiting for my rear wheel to slam into it and get thrown up/left/right. Not anymore

    -Didn't seem heavy to me at all like I've read from some people.

    -The one I rode had the GX eagle and it worked great while I had it. I was planning on just going with the NX Eagle that's specked with the ride 2 but now maybe leaning towards spending the $245 to upgrade to GX.

    -Confirmed my decision to wait for the Size 4, sure I could make do riding the 3 if I had to or adjust stem length and tweak stuff but me and the Cane Creek guy both immediately thought it was small when I sat on it.

    - I wanted to get as much North American manufacturing on the bike as I could so was leaning towards the MRP for shock and fork. Think I may give the East Coast some love and go with the Cane creek stuff though because the demo guy was so helpful. I talked to him almost an hour Friday night and he was really informative on shocks, bikes, etc. so I'd like to give them the business.

    -The Allegrippis trails in Raystown were super fast/fun/flowy, most of the stuff I ride around here has a lot more roots/rocks/tech but it was fun to just shred out on these trails for a weekend. I'll def go back, maybe even in September to put the new bike through it's paces.

    -Dirt Rag did a great job putting the event on; all the vendors, staff, other participants were super laid back and fun to talk with. Mountain bikers are good peeps!

    -It's going to be tough to wait until Late July or so for this thing but it'll be worth it. Going to try to get lots of miles in on the ole Kona so I'm at peak fitness when it shows up and can get a great late Summer/Fall on it.

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    Nice man thats cool you got to demo the GG TP. Pretty sweet rig it sounds like, especially seeing that the rear end/suspension can be changed out to go big with a smash. Handles well Huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Johnson View Post
    Nice man thats cool you got to demo the GG TP. Pretty sweet rig it sounds like, especially seeing that the rear end/suspension can be changed out to go big with a smash. Handles well Huh?
    Yeah I thought it handled great.

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    MTBK I'm glad you got to demo a Size 3 and see what you thought. If you feel Size 4 is the right move it's definitely worth the wait. Nothing ruins your stoke like a bike that doesn't fit the way you want it to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I have a 9.8 on both my bikes. No issues. If you want the option for a setback dropper it's the only option.
    My first 9.8 was solid and so I ordered one for my GG bike. It leaked badly and went off to warranty. After warranty, it started leaking again and I ditched it. I can't recommend the current generation 9.8.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    My first 9.8 was solid and so I ordered one for my GG bike. It leaked badly and went off to warranty. After warranty, it started leaking again and I ditched it. I can't recommend the current generation 9.8.
    Same here, had bad leaking on a 9.8, hard to warranty due to being in the states and warranty is only through mfg in Canada, got really expensive to warranty, won't buy therir stuff nor can I recommend it.

    Want 9.8 tech, get a Race Face.

    That said, there are so many better choices now and some really inexpensive ones, personally all my bikes are running OneUp, great product, great CS, and priced right. New 200mm post coming out soon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    That said, there are so many better choices now and some really inexpensive ones, personally all my bikes are running OneUp, great product, great CS, and priced right. New 200mm post coming out soon!
    This is super off-topic, but all my One-ups have felt like garbage. Super sensitive to clamp force and so grindy on the up / down. Have you had any experience with that?

    This is compared to my BikeYoke which is just super smooth (except when I had to warranty one for gauging the stanchion)

  88. #88
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    I bought 2 OneUps... First one was for my gf because it would fit a XS frame. Then, before I installed hers, I bought myself a 170mm for the GG Rev once it arrives. Anyway - I installed hers and I thought the initial engagement was pretty harsh; she has a fox lever and a tight housing space (OneUp has that unique cable housing implementation) - so I'm hoping mine feels better (better lever and more accommodating frame). Compared to my Transfers - the OneUp lever feel was meh.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    This is super off-topic, but all my One-ups have felt like garbage. Super sensitive to clamp force and so grindy on the up / down. Have you had any experience with that?

    This is compared to my BikeYoke which is just super smooth (except when I had to warranty one for gauging the stanchion)
    Nah, all of mine work fine, one is tiny bit wobbly but it's been used a lot, probably needs the revised upper bushing.

    These are air adjust, so folks with fast or slow return can adjust air pressure ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    MTBK I'm glad you got to demo a Size 3 and see what you thought. If you feel Size 4 is the right move it's definitely worth the wait. Nothing ruins your stoke like a bike that doesn't fit the way you want it to.
    Me too! Makes me feel better about committing to the purchase feeling confident in the size and just trying it out in general.

    ---------------

    As far as droppers with the size 4 I don't think I'll need a setback dropper so I'm just planning to go with the Ride 2 spec SDG Tellis.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    As far as droppers with the size 4 I don't think I'll need a setback dropper so I'm just planning to go with the Ride 2 spec SDG Tellis.
    Keep in mind the purpose of the setback dropper is not to make the bike fit. In other words you are not sticking at setback dropper on a small bike so you can make it work. At least that should not be your intention. That would be a last ditch solution.

    You are aiming to put yourself in a comfortable/efficient pedaling position on the saddle with respect to the bottom bracket. That may or may not require a setback dropper. It's a YMMV thing.

    Once you have put the saddle in the right spot [setback dropper or not] you adjust the stem length to make the seated position fit. The stem is where you want to make your fit adjustments not the saddle position.

    If you liked the pedaling position on the demo bike than it makes sense to go with a zero offset dropper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Keep in mind the purpose of the setback dropper is not to make the bike fit. In other words you are not sticking at setback dropper on a small bike so you can make it work. At least that should not be your intention. That would be a last ditch solution.

    You are aiming to put yourself in a comfortable/efficient pedaling position on the saddle with respect to the bottom bracket. That may or may not require a setback dropper. It's a YMMV thing.

    Once you have put the saddle in the right spot [setback dropper or not] you adjust the stem length to make the seated position fit. The stem is where you want to make your fit adjustments not the saddle position.

    If you liked the pedaling position on the demo bike than it makes sense to go with a zero offset dropper.
    Gotcha. To be honest I'm not sure I rode it long enough to say for sure if I liked the pedaling position or not. But I'll start with zero offset and see how it goes.

    I've been reading so much on hear about people tweaking/adjusting this and that and I've never done that. The 3 bikes I've owned I've rode bone stock in their initial configurations. Chances are they weren't all coincidentally the perfect fit/set up for me just that I didn't/don't know any better or how to transfer what I'm feeling to making tweaks. Time will tell if this ones any different or if I just ride it as it is.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Time will tell if this ones any different or if I just ride it as it is.
    If you are enjoying the ride that's all that matters.
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    Some people are more finicky than others. If you are not finicky, then just ride it and have fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Gotcha. To be honest I'm not sure I rode it long enough to say for sure if I liked the pedaling position or not. But I'll start with zero offset and see how it goes.

    I've been reading so much on hear about people tweaking/adjusting this and that and I've never done that. The 3 bikes I've owned I've rode bone stock in their initial configurations. Chances are they weren't all coincidentally the perfect fit/set up for me just that I didn't/don't know any better or how to transfer what I'm feeling to making tweaks. Time will tell if this ones any different or if I just ride it as it is.
    Lrg GG Shred Dogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you are enjoying the ride that's all that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Some people are more finicky than others. If you are not finicky, then just ride it and have fun.
    True!

    And I am having fun for sure; but I do sometimes get like some upper shoulder/neck pain; years ago I'd get some lower back pain, etc. and it would be nice to educate myself enough to know what may be causing that to make adjustments. Granted, part of it could be just me/fitness/repetition and nothing to do with the bike set up.

    But if there were things I could tweak for even more comfort and fun I'd be up to do it; just still learning how I would recognize and then do it. That's partially why I'm here at MTBR, to learn about bikes!!

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    Been pouring over the build out during this wait time. I've built up dozens of carts now analyzing. I initially was mostly set on Ride 2 with upgrades to Cane Creek Coli and coil fork, possibly an I9 stem just for a dash of color coordinating with the decal and the rest stock Ride 2.

    But then I also started considering upgrading the Drivetrain form the NX to GX although it sounds like the biggest difference may be weight and not really functionality? If so not sure it's worth $250 to save a pound to me, being a bigger guy myself I've never given much thought/worry to bike weights.

    Then the biggest question mark/lust I'm having is WHEELS. I've always thought the I9's were cool with the quick engagement, American made (east coast even), color customization etc. But don't know if they will really make much difference or if I've just been drinking the Kool Aid.

    I thought the demo bike had the entry level DT Swiss M 1900 i30 but looking back at the pictures it actually had the upgraded DT Swiss XM 1501 i30 which I thought were awesome on the test ride (again not knowing how much to contribute to them vs bike in general). Not like I am going to have the option to ride various wheels back to back on otherwise identical bikes.

    The upgrade to the 1501's on the Ride 2 is $470, at that point I'd be tempted to drop the GX Eagle ($250) and the I9 A35 stem ($85) and put that $335 together and get the Enduro 305's for the $845 instead.

    Another thing I wondered is how long a drive train typically lasts? Thinking being I could always upgrade to GX at replacement time if I wanted where as whatever wheels I get will likely last the whole bikes life.

    One of the things that drew me to GG was the customization; but it's also opening up a lot of decisions!!

    Not sure if I have a specific question other then just how much difference do the wheels make? I've heard the engagement helps in low speed tech climbing which is nice but not something I do a ton of. I was curious if people think they would help with manualing?

    Also - trying to keep this build ~$5,000 so can't really just do all of the upgrades.

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    I was in the same boat when choosing my build. I would definitely say go with wheels before anything else. The difference in either of the hubs alone I would say is worth it over the m1900 wheelset. I ended up doing ride 2 with the MRP ribbon air, the SD coil and going with the xm1500s the final price was about $4,600 I think and I'm super happy with the build. I don't love the NX drivetrain because I have been needing to adjust it after every ride but I can live with it until it wears out. When it does wear out I think I'll go to the new Shimano XT/SLX 12 speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Been pouring over the build out during this wait time. I've built up dozens of carts now analyzing. I initially was mostly set on Ride 2 with upgrades to Cane Creek Coli and coil fork, possibly an I9 stem just for a dash of color coordinating with the decal and the rest stock Ride 2.

    But then I also started considering upgrading the Drivetrain form the NX to GX although it sounds like the biggest difference may be weight and not really functionality? If so not sure it's worth $250 to save a pound to me, being a bigger guy myself I've never given much thought/worry to bike weights.

    Then the biggest question mark/lust I'm having is WHEELS. I've always thought the I9's were cool with the quick engagement, American made (east coast even), color customization etc. But don't know if they will really make much difference or if I've just been drinking the Kool Aid.

    I thought the demo bike had the entry level DT Swiss M 1900 i30 but looking back at the pictures it actually had the upgraded DT Swiss XM 1501 i30 which I thought were awesome on the test ride (again not knowing how much to contribute to them vs bike in general). Not like I am going to have the option to ride various wheels back to back on otherwise identical bikes.

    The upgrade to the 1501's on the Ride 2 is $470, at that point I'd be tempted to drop the GX Eagle ($250) and the I9 A35 stem ($85) and put that $335 together and get the Enduro 305's for the $845 instead.

    Another thing I wondered is how long a drive train typically lasts? Thinking being I could always upgrade to GX at replacement time if I wanted where as whatever wheels I get will likely last the whole bikes life.

    One of the things that drew me to GG was the customization; but it's also opening up a lot of decisions!!

    Not sure if I have a specific question other then just how much difference do the wheels make? I've heard the engagement helps in low speed tech climbing which is nice but not something I do a ton of. I was curious if people think they would help with manualing?

    Also - trying to keep this build ~$5,000 so can't really just do all of the upgrades.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Another thing I wondered is how long a drive train typically lasts?
    Depends what you mean by "drivetrain". Here are typical service lifespans for me riding 12 months a year.

    - cranks last multiple bikes [10yrs+]
    - BB [1-2 years]
    - chainring [1-2 years]
    - chain [6-12 months]
    - cassette [1-2 years]
    - freehub [1-2 years without service much longer with regular maintenance]
    - derailleur [3-6 years or until I rip it off]

    I replace chains before I have to and that makes everything else last longer.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Not sure if I have a specific question other then just how much difference do the wheels make? I've heard the engagement helps in low speed tech climbing which is nice but not something I do a ton of. I was curious if people think they would help with manualing?
    I've got the XM 1501 DT Swiss wheels with my Smash. They are as nice functionally as any high end custom wheel set I've built up and used. I'm not one of these people that needs/cares about super high points of engagement. They are light, strong and not overly stiff with a wide enough rim for the max tire size I can run on that frame.

    I don't think you are going to see a huge improvement once get to the level of the 1501's. If you want the I9's for their bling factor go for it. If you are trying to get the most performance for your $$ I don't see the value proposition. I also don't like to get into proprietary spokes and such. If a spoke breaks on a roadtrip I want to get the wheel fixed at a LBS without having to keep a supply of spare spokes on me.

    That said I do love the look of the I9 coloured spokes.

    You are not pedalling when you are manualing so the type of wheel/hub has no impact.
    Safe riding,

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    i9s also cost $7 a spoke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdriscoll View Post
    I was in the same boat when choosing my build. I would definitely say go with wheels before anything else. The difference in either of the hubs alone I would say is worth it over the m1900 wheelset. I ended up doing ride 2 with the MRP ribbon air, the SD coil and going with the xm1500s the final price was about $4,600 I think and I'm super happy with the build. I don't love the NX drivetrain because I have been needing to adjust it after every ride but I can live with it until it wears out. When it does wear out I think I'll go to the new Shimano XT/SLX 12 speed.
    Thanks for the info. I'm thinking along the same lines that since wheels are one of the priciest parts better to get what I want now via the upgrade then pay full price for a second set all together.

    All man stinks about adjustments on the NX. One of the things that got me single speeding in the first place was my hatred of adjusting the gears and not having them work all the time. I'm hoping these (either NX or GX) will at least be much better then my old ones since most of the problems then came form the front derailleur.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Depends what you mean by "drivetrain". Here are typical service lifespans for me riding 12 months a year.

    - cranks last multiple bikes [10yrs+]
    - BB [1-2 years]
    - chainring [1-2 years]
    - chain [6-12 months]
    - cassette [1-2 years]
    - freehub [1-2 years without service much longer with regular maintenance]
    - derailleur [3-6 years or until I rip it off]

    I replace chains before I have to and that makes everything else last longer.
    I guess I was specifically referring to the combo of cassette, chain, and front chain ring. So the debate was go with NX now and if it's not quite what I want upgrade at replacement time.

    My main priority as much or more even then cost/weight/longevity is ease of use/limited fussing/adjusting. I HATE when the gears don't shift right...and I'm not the best at adjusting though I guess I'm going to have to learn a bit more about it because I can't be getting constant tune ups at the LBS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've got the XM 1501 DT Swiss wheels with my Smash. They are as nice functionally as any high end custom wheel set I've built up and used. I'm not one of these people that needs/cares about super high points of engagement. They are light, strong and not overly stiff with a wide enough rim for the max tire size I can run on that frame.

    I don't think you are going to see a huge improvement once get to the level of the 1501's. If you want the I9's for their bling factor go for it. If you are trying to get the most performance for your $$ I don't see the value proposition. I also don't like to get into proprietary spokes and such. If a spoke breaks on a roadtrip I want to get the wheel fixed at a LBS without having to keep a supply of spare spokes on me.

    That said I do love the look of the I9 coloured spokes.

    You are not pedalling when you are manualing so the type of wheel/hub has no impact.
    Do you think for an intermediate rider the difference of the 1900 to 1501's is worth the $470 from a performance/durability/weight standpoint?

    If I'm being honest I guess the bling/color factor is a big part of my wanting the I-9. Was thinking if I went that route just getting the Black GG decals and letting the wheels be the only color basically. On the one hand I don't have a spare $850 to blow; on the other hand if I don't get them now unlikely I ever will down the road. Fully more want then need and was mostly dismissing it as too much money until I rode the 1501's and liked them so much and was like from $470 to $845 is only another ~375.

    I realize the manual your not pedaling just one of the reviews I was reading on the I-9's the author said something like "Before you know it you'll be clearing tech you never have and manualing out of corners" so I assumed he was implying the high/fast engagement made it easier to get the front wheel up initially to start the manual?

    But I'm sure it's more about practice/balance/etc then the wheels so probably not much of a factor.

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    Eagle is honestly a pain. It is super finicky to set-up right. Occasionally, I see comments about how it's super easy / no problem etc etc. As I I know nothing about bikes, I was able to install a 2x10 Shimano set-up and get it shifting right without any fuss.

    I could not get my GX Eagle set-up to shift correctly at all. I took it to a bike mechanic and the solution was..... 1/4 turn of the b-tension screw. wtf. The tolerances are that tight?

    Once it was set-up, it has worked basically well. I cannot really backpedal much (drop the chain) and some of the gears don't work quite as well as others to shift into (like 1-2 of 12). But in general when it works right it's pretty much forget about it for awhile.

    I did just do a 66 mile race with GX eagle on my hardtail and had no complaints - my chain needed to be oiled again at about 40 miles, other than that it worked well. It's not flawless, but it does work. On the hardtail, I had the mechanic set it up / adjust it to get it working right.

    It hates mud / grit / sand. That makes the drive train feel like it's wearing away into your frame.

    All the random user feedback I read about NX is that it blows. GX is acceptable, but NX just doesn't stand up. I don't have any specifics, beyond just random comments from people who presumably have experience with NX.

    I am hoping that Shimano 12 speed is less finicky, but, it's possible once you get to 12 speeds, the tolerances are just that close and there isn't a lot of room for error.

    I have i9s and I like them. Mostly the made in the USA part though. They are a "money to burn" item for sure though. I have occasionally switched to another bike with Hope Pro4 hubs+spank rims and have noticed literally 0 difference in performance between the wheel sets and the points of engagement.

    I guess if you are someone who needs to track stand and make tiny pedaling motions to clear the tech around you the higher POE might be useful, but after a certain point it's just more because more.

    Going up one level in wheels is probably worth it, but I don't have any personal experience between those wheelsets, I went to i9 because made in the USA.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Eagle is honestly a pain. It is super finicky to set-up right. Occasionally, I see comments about how it's super easy / no problem etc etc. As I I know nothing about bikes, I was able to install a 2x10 Shimano set-up and get it shifting right without any fuss.

    I could not get my GX Eagle set-up to shift correctly at all. I took it to a bike mechanic and the solution was..... 1/4 turn of the b-tension screw. wtf. The tolerances are that tight?

    Once it was set-up, it has worked basically well. I cannot really backpedal much (drop the chain) and some of the gears don't work quite as well as others to shift into (like 1-2 of 12). But in general when it works right it's pretty much forget about it for awhile.

    I did just do a 66 mile race with GX eagle on my hardtail and had no complaints - my chain needed to be oiled again at about 40 miles, other than that it worked well. It's not flawless, but it does work. On the hardtail, I had the mechanic set it up / adjust it to get it working right.

    It hates mud / grit / sand. That makes the drive train feel like it's wearing away into your frame.

    All the random user feedback I read about NX is that it blows. GX is acceptable, but NX just doesn't stand up. I don't have any specifics, beyond just random comments from people who presumably have experience with NX.

    I am hoping that Shimano 12 speed is less finicky, but, it's possible once you get to 12 speeds, the tolerances are just that close and there isn't a lot of room for error.
    UGHHHH I hope it is'tn too bad. We defintley have a ton of mud/dirt/sand where I ride the most close to my house. Part of it used to be a quarry and there are a lot of varying degrees of abrasiveness. The LBS said my bottom bracket and headset were some of the worst they had seen...also not a big bike washer which I'll maybe try to improve on a bit with the new one. Always wonder about washing away to much grease or driving grit further in but the bike shop guys said as long as you don't use a pressure washer it should be OK.

    But based on reviews you've heard sounds like it's worth the upgrade to the GX
    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post

    I have i9s and I like them. Mostly the made in the USA part though. They are a "money to burn" item for sure though. I have occasionally switched to another bike with Hope Pro4 hubs+spank rims and have noticed literally 0 difference in performance between the wheel sets and the points of engagement.

    I guess if you are someone who needs to track stand and make tiny pedaling motions to clear the tech around you the higher POE might be useful, but after a certain point it's just more because more.

    Going up one level in wheels is probably worth it, but I don't have any personal experience between those wheelsets, I went to i9 because made in the USA.
    Oh yes the USA made is important to me too. I especially think it's cool they are East Coast. One of these days I want to get down to Asheville to ride and it would be cool to swing through and do a little factory tour. Could hit up I-9 and Cane creek on the same trip. Their booths were together at the event I went to and they all knew each other and ride together occasionally.

    I'm not track standing or doing real techy stuff by any means so more want/support US manufacturing.

    If you look at it from that respect $800 for wheels isn't much compared to when I bought a $22K Harley over a ~$12K Honda.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Do you think for an intermediate rider the difference of the 1900 to 1501's is worth the $470 from a performance/durability/weight standpoint?
    I'm not up to speed on the whole DT Swiss line up. So I won't comment beyond what I have said about the 1501's which I own. I'd chat with GG about this as they have sold a bunch of both wheel sets so they'd know what the warranty rate has been and be able to guide you.

    If you have the $$ for I9's nothing wrong with spending it for some bling. I just wouldn't expect some revolutionary difference once you get up to he 1501 level of wheels. I considered the same question when I was specing my Smash and decided the 1501's were the right mix of performance vs. cost for me. I had the money to buy I9's, but decided that wasn't worth it.

    I could have pimped out my bike with an 11.6 shock or a fancier drivetrain than GX Eagle. Ultimately you have to decide what's important to you and how much money you want to burn on a MTB. There are endless ways to spend more and more money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    I realize the manual your not pedaling just one of the reviews I was reading on the I-9's the author said something like "Before you know it you'll be clearing tech you never have and manualing out of corners" so I assumed he was implying the high/fast engagement made it easier to get the front wheel up initially to start the manual?
    You are not lifting the front wheel by pedaling if you are manualing so I don't understand the connection to the high POE hub. You can take the chain off the bike and manual the same as if you had a chain so the hub isn't involved in the process.

    FWIW - my GX Eagle has been 100% trouble free out of the box from GG. I don't recall even tweaking the cable tension once. My rear derailleur has taken a few hits as evidenced by its battle scars without complaint. We are getting my GF's Smash with GX Eagle. If I had to buy a new drivetrain for my Smash I'd get another GX Eagle setup. YMMV.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    UGHHHH I hope it is'tn too bad. We defintley have a ton of mud/dirt/sand where I ride the most close to my house. Part of it used to be a quarry and there are a lot of varying degrees of abrasiveness. The LBS said my bottom bracket and headset were some of the worst they had seen...also not a big bike washer which I'll maybe try to improve on a bit with the new one. Always wonder about washing away to much grease or driving grit further in but the bike shop guys said as long as you don't use a pressure washer it should be OK.

    But based on reviews you've heard sounds like it's worth the upgrade to the GX
    You can definitely live with NX, it isn't horrible but I have about 600 miles on an XT 11 speed set up on another bike and have never touched it since installing. I was at the upper limits of my budget with my build and would build it exactly the same as I did with NX again, no hesitation.

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    NX = Shimano driver
    GX = XD driver

    I also had issues with GX Eagle, finiscky and required regular lubing, so I run GX 11sp and it's bomber. I have E13 cassettes, not my favs but they work. the new Shimano 12sp is interesting, but I'm looking at staying with GX 11sp and get a Garbaruk long range cassette.

    As for wheels, I'd skip I9 as they are pricey and have bearing issues. DT Swiss star drive is bomber, but if you want domestic then I'd get Onyx. I ran Onyx for years, they are amazing. Rims, well, they bend and break, so I'd get decent rims but I'm not sure it's worth springing for high end unless you ride like a princess.

    I just got a Bomber coil shock, installing for the weekend
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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    NX = Shimano driver
    GX = XD driver

    As for wheels, I'd skip I9 as they are pricey and have bearing issues.
    Not sure you can just state I9s have bearing issues like it's fact. MTBR has like two reports of bearing issues and I9 sent out new bearings for free. It sounds like there may have been one less than ideal batch.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Not sure you can just state I9s have bearing issues like it's fact. MTBR has like two reports of bearing issues and I9 sent out new bearings for free. It sounds like there may have been one less than ideal batch.
    To GG or not to GG, and if so which one, size, components???-i9.png

    A local wheel builder posted this ^^^ and then other folks chimed in with reports of similar failures. Not to pick on I9. If I had money to burn I might well have I9 wheels colour matched to my socks!

    But for the OP it's important to not assume that more money buys you a higher performing more robust component. I think it's reasonable to make that assumption right up to the mid-grade of MTB parts, but as you keep going up the $$ ladder you have to really take a hard look at what you are getting for your money.

    Some high end parts definitely deliver on their promises, but a lot are just a way to burn cash and display your dentist bling. So shop wisely.
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    As someone with the NX Eagle and over 200 miles on it now (and not easy miles at all) I have zero complaints. The shifting is smooth as any other system I have used in recent years (both Shimano and SRAM) and still exhibits the normal chain drop during backpedaling in the highest gears (12/11/10). At about 50 miles in I needed to add a bit of tension to the cable adjuster for the shifter as it was lagging a slight bit on shifting but that was really it. I have lubed the chain once and will need to again in a few rides.

    As someone who has built higher end wheels myself and currently am running the m1900 wheelset I have two things about them.
    1.) they are stupid simple to upgrade to the Star Ratchet system from the 3-pawl. The engagement going from the low 24t to 36t of the Star was a great upgrade. Especially if you live in more technical terrain and find yourself ratcheting.
    2.) At ~190# RTR, I do find that I can get the front wheel to flex enough on hard corner to rub the rotor on the pads. While this does not happen often, it is something I have noticed.

    Outside of that they have been great wheels. If it were me doing over again, I would potentially keep the rear air and go with a piggy back air shock instead of the coil (don't know that it was necessarily worth it to me, not bad but not a huge difference) and I would stay away from RS forks. I have not had good luck thus far setting mine up and still struggle with it. I know so many people that love the Lyrik and say that it is so smooth and supple, and I just can't feel that out of this fork. Over the years my two go to brands for suspension have been Manitou and SR Suntour. I am to the point now that I am seriously contemplating selling off the Lyrik I just bought and going with a Durolux from SR Suntour. The Lyrik just does not feel nice, feels spikey and harsh (though not near as bad as it was or as the Yari with the MoCo damper) except for a small window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Not sure you can just state I9s have bearing issues like it's fact. MTBR has like two reports of bearing issues and I9 sent out new bearings for free. It sounds like there may have been one less than ideal batch.
    If you watch one of the Hydra release videos, I9 specifically said one of the areas they tried to improve on is the bearings, From the video it definitely sounded like they were not 100% satisfied with the previous bearings

  113. #113
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    FWIW, my XT drivetrain has been flawless through a couple of very rainy PacNW winters.

    I've had XT gear on my previous bikes and it's always been completely solid kit. The new stuff looks very intriguing.

    I wonder if GG will start offering full Shimano build kits now with the new stuff?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I would stay away from RS forks. I have not had good luck thus far setting mine up and still struggle with it. I know so many people that love the Lyrik and say that it is so smooth and supple, and I just can't feel that out of this fork. Over the years my two go to brands for suspension have been Manitou and SR Suntour. I am to the point now that I am seriously contemplating selling off the Lyrik I just bought and going with a Durolux from SR Suntour. The Lyrik just does not feel nice, feels spikey and harsh (though not near as bad as it was or as the Yari with the MoCo damper) except for a small window.
    I've been mountain bike for over 30 years now and have never had a RS fork that I could stand to ride. You could certainly try the Durolux through their tryout program to see how you like it. I think they make pretty good stuff at the higher end. I think I also read in the suspension forum that if you buy one of their forks, that they'll give you a free Triair shock. That Triair might be a pretty good backup for you.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I've been mountain bike for over 30 years now and have never had a RS fork that I could stand to ride. You could certainly try the Durolux through their tryout program to see how you like it. I think they make pretty good stuff at the higher end. I think I also read in the suspension forum that if you buy one of their forks, that they'll give you a free Triair shock. That Triair might be a pretty good backup for you.
    Now that's a bit overboard (insert eye roll).

    A fork is a fork, to say an entire brand is crap, well, that's a bunch of crap.

    The engineering, technology, materials, construction, it's all done in parallel.

    You may like Chevy better than Ford, but they are still just cars/trucks.

    I just started riding Fox again (SC34, 36), previously rode RS and Manitou, and since the change I notice ... that it's a fork.
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  116. #116
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    I've ridden a bunch of Fox, RS and now a MRP fork. They've all been good. I've had some shocks custom tuned, but haven't gone there on my forks because they've all worked well enough out of the box to keep me happy.

    I'm not saying you can't get a bunk fork or that production forks are perfect, but they seem pretty good to me in general.
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  117. #117
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    Well I think it's safe to say there are lots of varying opinions!!

    Appreciate all the feed back everyone. Not going to try and multi-quote everyone right now but I'm taking in all the info and continuing to read reviews and articles as well.

    Seems like the majority are saying the GX upgrade is potentially worth it over NX.

    I was actually at my LBS yesterday (picking up some new wheels for my wife - another story) and asked the one mechanic I know "can you tell me the difference between the NX Eagle and the GX Eagle" His reply was "well I could; or I could just save us both some time and tell you to buy the GX"

    So I'm leaning that way, if $250 has a chance of saving me shifting headaches I'm willing to spend it.

    Still torn on wheels. On the one hand I feel like I should either stick with the Ride 2 1900's to keep cost down OR get the Industry nines just for the fun/bling factor of this being my sort of dream bike. I feel like the 1501's nice as they may be are sort of the classic compromise - don't get what I want and don't save much money. Yes $470 vs $845 is money but you know what I mean.

    Got a week or two left to ponder. I want to have all decisions finalized before I head out of town. Don't think I want o spend my vacation on bike research, rather spend it riding the Kona!

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Still torn on wheels. On the one hand I feel like I should either stick with the Ride 2 1900's to keep cost down OR get the Industry nines just for the fun/bling factor of this being my sort of dream bike. I feel like the 1501's nice as they may be are sort of the classic compromise - don't get what I want and don't save much money. Yes $470 vs $845 is money but you know what I mean.
    I see it differently. Getting a part blinged out takes a lot of cash and results in a lot less performance to $ than getting the bike to the high mid-range of component level. Assuming your budget is not infinite that means you bling out a couple parts and have to go lower range on others to afford the bling. To me that's like having a powerful motor and a killer paint job on a race car, but having mediocre suspension and tires. The engine will be cool to look at with the hood up and sound great. The body/paint job will get lots of likes on Instagram. But the car won't perform well on the track because it's got some weak parts in key areas.

    In GG terms I'd rather get the Ride 1 stock build than the Ride 2 with colour matched I9 wheels.

    That said I do understand the lure of bling. I have been on the I9 site a few times geeking out over sweet colour options and day dreaming about how neat that would be on my Smash. But when it came time to spend the $$ I just didn't see enough value and didn't want the downsides that came with I9 wheels. Instead I spent money on: custom shock tune, additional springs to try out, alternate handlebars and tires. None of those are sexy or anything another rider will comment on in the parking lot, but they all make the bike actually ride better.
    Safe riding,

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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've ridden a bunch of Fox, RS and now a MRP fork. They've all been good. I've had some shocks custom tuned, but haven't gone there on my forks because they've all worked well enough out of the box to keep me happy.

    I'm not saying you can't get a bunk fork or that production forks are perfect, but they seem pretty good to me in general.
    Right! Personally for me I just have never been impressed with RS or FOX stuff, first time riding my Manitou Tower Pro (circa 2011) I was blown away. Then when I built my last bike Manitou didn't have a 29er option in 130mm+ so I found a used RS Revy Dual Air, it was ok but nothing great, bit divy and the dual air was finicky to say the least. It lasted a season before it blew something and the negative chamber would not hold air (would leak down after a few hours). That is when I was in a bind and needed something cheap and quick, worked with Nick from SR Suntour and used their upgrade program to grab an Auron LO-RC. Fork was awesome out of the box but still left a bit on the damping side to be wanted. A year later I took advantage of a 25% off sale and got the PCS RC2 damper (high end damper) for the Auron and swapped that and wow that was night and day difference. So supple, so compliant, didn't sit quite as high in the travel as I would like but the initial stroke and everything was phenomenal!

    Everyone kept raving about how good the Yari/Lyrik platform has been the last few years so I figured I would give it a try. While the Lyrik is getting better, I am not super impressed with it and really hate throwing money and "more variables" at something simply to try and get it to a point that I feel it "works". But that is just me and I probably "feel" things differently than the next. Figure that I have over 250 miles on the bike/fork at this point and know Ben threw a bunch of miles on it last year on his 2018 Smash so figure it is time for at least a lower leg service. Gonna ride tonight then I will do the service on the legs, went with the PUSH wipers instead of the green SKF just because I have been eyeing the HC97. I know, I know, I am as bad as Ben....LOL

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I see it differently. Getting a part blinged out takes a lot of cash and results in a lot less performance to $ than getting the bike to the high mid-range of component level. Assuming your budget is not infinite that means you bling out a couple parts and have to go lower range on others to afford the bling. To me that's like having a powerful motor and a killer paint job on a race car, but having mediocre suspension and tires. The engine will be cool to look at with the hood up and sound great. The body/paint job will get lots of likes on Instagram. But the car won't perform well on the track because it's got some weak parts in key areas.

    In GG terms I'd rather get the Ride 1 stock build than the Ride 2 with colour matched I9 wheels.

    That said I do understand the lure of bling. I have been on the I9 site a few times geeking out over sweet colour options and day dreaming about how neat that would be on my Smash. But when it came time to spend the $$ I just didn't see enough value and didn't want the downsides that came with I9 wheels. Instead I spent money on: custom shock tune, additional springs to try out, alternate handlebars and tires. None of those are sexy or anything another rider will comment on in the parking lot, but they all make the bike actually ride better.
    I am with Vik... For me it has very much to do with ROI vs. the "bling" factor. Yeah there are certain things, like stem spacers, grips, etc., that I will spend money on to get that slight bit of bling but that is more accent based vs. true "BLING" like the I9s. I have been on their site too, was even looking at building up a set of wheels myself with purple Hope Pro4s to add some more bling to the bike, but with the conversion of the M1900s to the star ratchet system, well they just WORK. So when it comes down to it, that is really all that matters.

  121. #121
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    All the suspension talk I'll remind everyone I've been riding a fully Rigid bike for 6 years so I'd have a hard time saying if a suspension felt right or not with no comparison basis! I'm going Coil just based on what I've read about it being less hassle, set and forget, etc. Not interested in adjusting and adding air to my shock with those little pumps at the trail head or changing it up based on temperature or any of that.

    My plan per my demo/talks with Cane Creek are -

    Helm Coil - 44mm offset - 130mm + 65 lb springs
    DB Coil IL Valt Spring with 550 Lb spring

    That's the one thing I've already settled on!

    I'd been planning Orange decals all along but now thinking of going green for a change from all my other orange bikes or all black if I go colored wheels.

    So many Decsions!!!

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I see it differently. Getting a part blinged out takes a lot of cash and results in a lot less performance to $ than getting the bike to the high mid-range of component level. Assuming your budget is not infinite that means you bling out a couple parts and have to go lower range on others to afford the bling. To me that's like having a powerful motor and a killer paint job on a race car, but having mediocre suspension and tires. The engine will be cool to look at with the hood up and sound great. The body/paint job will get lots of likes on Instagram. But the car won't perform well on the track because it's got some weak parts in key areas.

    In GG terms I'd rather get the Ride 1 stock build than the Ride 2 with colour matched I9 wheels.

    That said I do understand the lure of bling. I have been on the I9 site a few times geeking out over sweet colour options and day dreaming about how neat that would be on my Smash. But when it came time to spend the $$ I just didn't see enough value and didn't want the downsides that came with I9 wheels. Instead I spent money on: custom shock tune, additional springs to try out, alternate handlebars and tires. None of those are sexy or anything another rider will comment on in the parking lot, but they all make the bike actually ride better.
    Thats a good analogy with the fancy paint job shitty performance car.

    I rarely ever see any riders at a trail head/parking lot as I mostly ride from my house, not worried about impressing anyone. I just think the wheels are cool and want to stare at them hanging in the basement while I'm riding my trainer

    But I do for sure want the GX now and I do need to keep it under $5K, especially since we just dropped $1,200 on this for the wife:

    To GG or not to GG, and if so which one, size, components???-new-bike-day.jpg


    So, most likely the I-9's are getting the axe. Also realized they could screw me on and even LONGER wait time since they are 8-10 weeks out on custom builds right now. So unless I could somehow coordinate them starting that build early I could get the Size 4 frame ready in August to turn around and wait until Sept/Oct for the wheel set which I don't want to do.

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    All the suspension talk I'll remind everyone I've been riding a fully Rigid bike for 6 years so I'd have a hard time saying if a suspension felt right or not with no comparison basis!
    Don't hesitate to find someone local to you that knows suspension well and get their help setting up your bike. You don't need to be an expert yourself. All you need is some help and then write down the settings they suggest so you can reset back to them if you decide to play around with your suspension.

    One of my good friends is a LBS owner I met because I went on a group ride with him on my new bike that my LBS at home set up for me. I was having some problems, but didn't know enough to do anything about them or even to really be sure if it was my technique or the bike set up. After the ride he took me aside and said I need to fix your bike it's messed up. He spent 2-3hrs dialing everything in while feeding me beers and then didn't charge me a dollar. He just couldn't stand to see someone on a sweet new bike that was not riding the way it should. FWIW I was railing turns on the freshly setup bike like a pro instead of wiping out and rolling around in the dust!

    I've learnt a lot more about suspension since then, but I always get him to look at my bike when I have the chance. His level of knowledge and sensitivity to changes is light years better than mine.

    So don't settle for just okay on suspension set up and don't feel you need to get a PHD in it tomorrow. Use the expertise that's around you.
    Safe riding,

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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    especially since we just dropped $1,200 on this for the wife:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice. I'm glad she got some fresh wheels.
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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I am with Vik... For me it has very much to do with ROI vs. the "bling" factor. Yeah there are certain things, like stem spacers, grips, etc., that I will spend money on to get that slight bit of bling but that is more accent based vs. true "BLING" like the I9s. I have been on their site too, was even looking at building up a set of wheels myself with purple Hope Pro4s to add some more bling to the bike, but with the conversion of the M1900s to the star ratchet system, well they just WORK. So when it comes down to it, that is really all that matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    As someone who has built higher end wheels myself and currently am running the m1900 wheelset I have two things about them.
    1.) they are stupid simple to upgrade to the Star Ratchet system from the 3-pawl. The engagement going from the low 24t to 36t of the Star was a great upgrade. Especially if you live in more technical terrain and find yourself ratcheting.
    2.) At ~190# RTR, I do find that I can get the front wheel to flex enough on hard corner to rub the rotor on the pads. While this does not happen often, it is something I have noticed.
    .

    I THINK you guys have talked me off the I-9 ledge

    Your comment on the M1900's flexing though still has me wondering if I should upgrade to the 1501's and just go Ride 1 (would already include GX and 1501s plus a better brake set I believe) and then just change/upgrade the two shocks to what I want.

    I'm a good bit heavier then you at 225# - Should be more like 210-215 but...beer lots of beer. What was the cost to upgrade to the star ratchet system on the M1900s?

    Also I'm not currently taking corners fast enough to flex any wheels I don't think, but who knows once I get the Trail Pistol and look down at the logo telling me it wants to go FAST

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post

    I'm a good bit heavier then you at 225# - Should be more like 210-215 but...beer lots of beer. What was the cost to upgrade to the star ratchet system on the M1900s?
    i recently purchased a smash race with 11-6 and lyric and decided against going with the DT swiss wheels as a heavier rider. The wheels have a listed maximum total weight (rider + bike) of about 260lbs. At 225lbs you will be right on the maximum weight for the wheels. Look on the DT swiss site for specs.

    i went with NOX composites wheels and chris king hubs as i already have a set and they took some insane hits and no weight limit.

    GG allowing me to ship wheels to them is what made me go with them, other similar bikes came with dt swiss wheels and I didn't want to take a chance with my 250lbs body weight on wheels with max weight limit of 260lbs

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    Man I'm really bummed about this moving the Size 4's until the 4th QTR now.

    Contemplating scrapping the whole idea and just buying something off the rack at the LBS and taking it with me on my upcoming month long trip. The idea of whipping around on a new full suspension rig while I'm not working and in a bunch of new spots is seeming really tempting.

    I'd resigned myself to not having the bike for the trip and figured just having the bike to arrive in August upon my return would give me something to look forward too; and then just ride the hell out of it Aug-Nov. But if it won't even show up until sometime in the 4th QTR....I don't know. Feels like a shame to spend another whole season on the Rigid SS now that I've ridden some FS and got myself so pumped up for it.

    I've got no doubt the GG's are great bikes and I think it's awesome to support a US made company. But on the other hand we've only got so many Summers to ride and especially long trips don't some around very often.

    UGGGH

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    Buy a used aluminum. You will spend half and will be stocked!

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    What he said, buy my Pistola sz large
    Black with Fox factory dpx2 and headset; cheap
    Iím 6í2 as well and itís a perfect fit.
    my new one is on the way so itís gotta go

  130. #130
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    Mtb Kenny: where did you hear q4 for the size 4s? I mustíve missed the post, because I wasnít able to make the cookout last night.

    The delays must be affecting size 2s as well. And youíre right: thereís only so many summers we have to ride.

    Definitely do what you feel is right. I can definitely tell you if you can pick up a used AL frame youíll be in great shape. Theyíre solid frames, and you wonít miss your summer.
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
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  131. #131
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    Buying used a great idea. You get a GG at a better price and you are not giving up much if anything really. You can buy a frame and have the buyer send it straight to GG for a tune up and a build with any parts you like. You'll end up with an amazing bike for a lot less than a new carbon frame or spring for the bling suspension and I9 wheels for the same price.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2579619/

    Or you could buy a complete GG and ride it for this year and sell it for pretty much the same $$ when you are done and get a new carbon GG when the pressure is off the production line.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2557442/

    Personally I love my metal GG and have zero temptation to replace it with a carbon version. If I needed to replace it my first move would be to look for a used metal Smash.

    Ultimately I don't care whether you get a GG or not, but don't just buy whatever shiny ride the LBS has in stock. Make the sure the fit, geo, suspension performance and components are all up to snuff or you'll end up regretting the choice just to make something happen fast.
    Safe riding,

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  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinetic 27 View Post
    What he said, buy my Pistola sz large
    Black with Fox factory dpx2 and headset; cheap
    Iím 6í2 as well and itís a perfect fit.
    my new one is on the way so itís gotta go
    Is yours the one Vik posted link too?

    $900 Frame only?

    A big part of the reason I wanted a GG in the first place was for a coil so would want to buy my own shock.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Mtb Kenny: where did you hear q4 for the size 4s? I mustíve missed the post, because I wasnít able to make the cookout last night.

    The delays must be affecting size 2s as well. And youíre right: thereís only so many summers we have to ride.

    Definitely do what you feel is right. I can definitely tell you if you can pick up a used AL frame youíll be in great shape. Theyíre solid frames, and you wonít miss your summer.
    I just saw it on the boards here and confirmed they had changed availability on their website.

    If I had another geared FS or even hard tail I'd just wait it out. But just not sure I want to ride mine all year now that I'm getting better, trying harder stuff, riding more days/miles, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Is yours the one Vik posted link too?

    $900 Frame only?

    A big part of the reason I wanted a GG in the first place was for a coil so would want to buy my own shock.
    Yep, thatís mine.
    Iíd rather sell it w/o shock anyways.
    let me know and Iíll get it ready to ship.
    need any other parts?
    fork, dropper, etc?

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Personally I love my metal GG and have zero temptation to replace it with a carbon version. If I needed to replace it my first move would be to look for a used metal Smash.

    Ultimately I don't care whether you get a GG or not, but don't just buy whatever shiny ride the LBS has in stock. Make the sure the fit, geo, suspension performance and components are all up to snuff or you'll end up regretting the choice just to make something happen fast.
    Well if you remember from my earlier/initial emails to you about GG I was bummed when they switched to Carbon and had always wanted aluminum in the first place!

    If I went the LBS I'd go back to my original plan with the Trek Fuel EX8 that I rode in Vegas back in 2017 and really liked. Aluminum frame, least expensive bike I've seen with the GX Eagle at $3,500. Not coil compatible which is only downside; but I could upgrade the fork to a helm coil (or other coil) down the road if I needed/wanted to.

    To use a car analogy like you did earlier with wheels/paint if my Unit is a Honda Civic and the Trail Pistol or something like the Evil Following/Transition Smuggler are a Ferrari then the Fuel EX8 is maybe like a Camaro or corvette. ANd at my budget, rider level, lcoal terrain, I'm OK with that.

    Used isn't a bad idea; but with my lack of mechanical knowledge I also like the LBS fully assembling the bike and first year of free tunes. They also of course sell a billion Treks so have plenty of parts, knowledge, etc. They said they do the annual shock tunes in house for them.

    DW's bike was also not exactly planned/budgeted so her ~$1,500 plus a $3,500 bike for me would be back to my initial $5K budget.

    BUT as you say I don't want to be dis-appointed. Lots to consider, buying a bike shouldn't be so hard/stressful!! which in itself is partly why I'm thinking I may be more of an "off the rack" guy. I'm more into riding bikes then reading/researching/discussing them I think.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    I just saw it on the boards here and confirmed they had changed availability on their website.

    If I had another geared FS or even hard tail I'd just wait it out. But just not sure I want to ride mine all year now that I'm getting better, trying harder stuff, riding more days/miles, etc.
    I completely understand. If you're looking at geared hardtails, I still love my Pedalhead. It's a pretty solid bike and can handle just about anything you throw at it. And the geo for that is pretty dialed.

    I love my AL frame, but I'm running the Megatrail as a Shred Dogg in trail mode with a -2 works headset to get it to my liking--but I really have it dialed for me that I'm debating if it makes sense for me to even get a Revved frame at this point. the AL frames are still pretty dang good, and you can't go wrong with that since Kinetic 27 has offered you a pretty sweet deal on an AL frame.
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
    https://classifieds.mtbr.com/showpro...product=116154

  137. #137
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    Appreciate the offer Kinetic. I've been dreaming/planning of a new bike for a long while though and just didn't have used in my mind.

    I'm sure there are used builds out there that would be a significant savings but building it up the way I'd specked/planned originally-

    Frame - $900
    Cane creek helm coil fork - $900
    Cane Creek DBcoli - $460
    XM 1501 Wheel set ~ $1,200
    Minion Tires - $120
    GX Eagle - $550
    Bike shop build labor - $300 (not interested or in my current skill set for DIY)

    That's already around $4,500 and I still need brakes, handlebar, grips, cables, etc so I'd be right back up to ~$5K so I'm not really seeing the value there for me.

    Plus to be honest I've already spent significantly more time and mental bandwidth on this bike purchase then I'd really planned or desired and I just want to buy something and ride it; not go through a bunch of decisions, ordering, emails, communicating with a bike shop, etc...

    I COULD just wait until the Fall for the GG Trail Pistol; but once I started thinking about having the FS geared bike I've been getting really excited to ride it! So ultimately I'm going to go ahead with a full build from another manufacturer; hopefully getting it in the next two weeks and taking it on my road trip.

    I have a small remodeling business with my Dad and we are fortunate enough to keep a 3-6 month backlog most times, and we do occasionally lose jobs when people have a deadline to meet (selling house, deck for a graduation party or wedding, etc.). It sucks sometimes, but it is what is.

    All that is to say it's a pure timing issue, nothing else.

    I have no issues with GG, don't feel burned or even mad at all. I think what they are doing with the made in USA carbon is awesome. I wish them huge continued success with it and if I look for future bikes I'll keep them in mind. And for their sake and the riders I'm glad they are taking the time to do it right.

    As I mentioned up thread if I had a more capable current bike to ride, I'd wait. But I've been Rigid single speed-ing 6 years and I'm getting too old for that $hit!

    Anyway, BIG THANKS to everyone in this thread for the info. Your all really knowledgeable on bikes/shocks/wheels, etc. and you've educated me a lot and it will ultimately be a big help in my final decision this week.

    Apologies if you feel you've wasted your time to converse with me since I'm going another way. Maybe some others considering GG's, sizing, shocks, wheels, can get some value from the thread.

    Cheers!

    Mtbkenny

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    There are plenty of great bikes out there and being told that this year was a wash (in your situation) would totally send me searching for something else.

    Good luck!

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    There are plenty of great bikes out there and being told that this year was a wash (in your situation) would totally send me searching for something else.

    Good luck!
    Yeah bikes have come along way lately. Tough situation; either way I'm compromising - Either not getting my first choice bike; or missing (the majority) of a season. So I decided I'd rather ride my 1-A choice sooner then later.

    Thanks.

  140. #140
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    So, what did you get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Appreciate the offer Kinetic. I've been dreaming/planning of a new bike for a long while though and just didn't have used in my mind.

    I'm sure there are used builds out there that would be a significant savings but building it up the way I'd specked/planned originally-

    Frame - $900
    Cane creek helm coil fork - $900
    Cane Creek DBcoli - $460
    XM 1501 Wheel set ~ $1,200
    Minion Tires - $120
    GX Eagle - $550
    Bike shop build labor - $300 (not interested or in my current skill set for DIY)

    That's already around $4,500 and I still need brakes, handlebar, grips, cables, etc so I'd be right back up to ~$5K so I'm not really seeing the value there for me.

    Plus to be honest I've already spent significantly more time and mental bandwidth on this bike purchase then I'd really planned or desired and I just want to buy something and ride it; not go through a bunch of decisions, ordering, emails, communicating with a bike shop, etc...

    I COULD just wait until the Fall for the GG Trail Pistol; but once I started thinking about having the FS geared bike I've been getting really excited to ride it! So ultimately I'm going to go ahead with a full build from another manufacturer; hopefully getting it in the next two weeks and taking it on my road trip.

    I have a small remodeling business with my Dad and we are fortunate enough to keep a 3-6 month backlog most times, and we do occasionally lose jobs when people have a deadline to meet (selling house, deck for a graduation party or wedding, etc.). It sucks sometimes, but it is what is.

    All that is to say it's a pure timing issue, nothing else.

    I have no issues with GG, don't feel burned or even mad at all. I think what they are doing with the made in USA carbon is awesome. I wish them huge continued success with it and if I look for future bikes I'll keep them in mind. And for their sake and the riders I'm glad they are taking the time to do it right.

    As I mentioned up thread if I had a more capable current bike to ride, I'd wait. But I've been Rigid single speed-ing 6 years and I'm getting too old for that $hit!

    Anyway, BIG THANKS to everyone in this thread for the info. Your all really knowledgeable on bikes/shocks/wheels, etc. and you've educated me a lot and it will ultimately be a big help in my final decision this week.

    Apologies if you feel you've wasted your time to converse with me since I'm going another way. Maybe some others considering GG's, sizing, shocks, wheels, can get some value from the thread.

    Cheers!

    Mtbkenny
    Lrg GG Shred Dogg
    Lrg Fezzari Signal Peak
    Lrg Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Don't hesitate to find someone local to you that knows suspension well and get their help setting up your bike. You don't need to be an expert yourself. All you need is some help and then write down the settings they suggest so you can reset back to them if you decide to play around with your suspension.

    One of my good friends is a LBS owner I met because I went on a group ride with him on my new bike that my LBS at home set up for me. I was having some problems, but didn't know enough to do anything about them or even to really be sure if it was my technique or the bike set up. After the ride he took me aside and said I need to fix your bike it's messed up. He spent 2-3hrs dialing everything in while feeding me beers and then didn't charge me a dollar. He just couldn't stand to see someone on a sweet new bike that was not riding the way it should. FWIW I was railing turns on the freshly setup bike like a pro instead of wiping out and rolling around in the dust!

    I've learnt a lot more about suspension since then, but I always get him to look at my bike when I have the chance. His level of knowledge and sensitivity to changes is light years better than mine.

    So don't settle for just okay on suspension set up and don't feel you need to get a PHD in it tomorrow. Use the expertise that's around you.
    Nice, awesome that you found someone to show you the ropes a bit. I'll defintley keep that in mind to look for some local support. I actually have talked with a couple of the shop guys at my LBS a fair bit over the last few years so I can chat with them.

    Also hoping to partake in some group rides late Summer/Fall so maybe I'll meet some gear guys.

    AND this Forum is a great resource and I think I'm going to stick around here and try to learn more as well - thinking about this comment a bit more -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    BUT as you say I don't want to be dis-appointed. Lots to consider, buying a bike shouldn't be so hard/stressful!! which in itself is partly why I'm thinking I may be more of an "off the rack" guy. I'm more into riding bikes then reading/researching/discussing them I think.
    I had initially figured once I made my bike purchase I'd be basically good to go. But the more time I spent on here the last couple months I realized I do not know much about bikes and how they work, maintaining, etc.

    I've mostly got away with this by riding a pretty simple bike and just paying to tune/fix it once or twice a year. But now that I'll have two bikes, just got my wife a bike, Daughters both have bikes...that's a lot of bike maintenance! If I can DIY some of it I can use those savings for more trips, parts, beer, etc.

    So while I stand by my statement that I enjoy riding bikes more then researching/ reading/ discussing there's no reason I can't do both

    And one can enhance the other by educating me on how to really get my bike dialed for optimal fun. Just for example I've read a few threads where people are shopping of new bikes when it's really their shock that's not right...I'd be the same way so I need to learn some of this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Nice. I'm glad she got some fresh wheels.
    Thanks! Got her out for her first trail ride Sunday. Said she liked it despite a somewhat gnarly wreck that took some skin with it. I was nervous she'd be pissed/scared after that and wanting to walk home but she rode a a bunch more after that.

    Really did seem like she had fun, said she liked the rolling ups/downs. Going to be tricky to get out too much with needing someone to watch the kids but we talked to our neighbors about maybe doing a kids swap with them some weekends this Summer.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So, what did you get?
    Well, I don't have it yet. But I ordered a Transition Smuggler.

    Started a thread on it over in the 29er section-

    https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/s...g-1105299.html

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