Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019- Mtbr.com
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 200 of 321
  1. #1
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,321

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019

    https://bikerumor.com/2019/04/24/gar...-even-offroad/
    I'm ordering this as soon as it's available. My old edge 500 has needed replaced for over a year now.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Read these:

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html

    The one thing I've always wanted and never got from Garmin was a device where the basic features worked reliably. They always bail on a product before they get it right. The touch screen on the 820 is an abomination. I've had three between buying one, a warranty replacement, and a replacement after breaking one. That's not saying anything about all the bugs. It's very rare I go for a ride and everything works as it should. 520 has plenty of it's own problems. I have one of those too. With previous units I would run down-rev firmware as the final version usually screwed up more things than it fixed.

    With these two new units, they've piled in so many new features I can't imagine them ever working right. None of the simpler previous units ever did.
    What, me worry?

  3. #3
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Thank goodness the 530 keeps real buttons. I'm not going anywhere near a touchscreen, even if it functions as intended.

    Most of it I don't care about, though. All those metrics - meh. Also don't care about all the connectivity with the phone. The one exception being the two security functions - find my gps and the "lock" mode.

    Things I do care about:
    Improved battery life - yay! always a good thing! appears this is at least in part due to using a new GPS chipset

    Added more satellites - adding the Galileo satellites is a good move. I was wondering when this was going to happen on more devices. got my answer. Curious which location options perform best under which circumstances, though. which is going to be a massively complicated question, of course.

    Maps - I don't need anything complicated. Just enough memory for maps. One thing not clear is whether the trailforks maps baked into the device ever get updated. the strength of services like TF and MTBProject is that they can be updated if something about the trial network changes.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nubster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    6,984
    Maybe I got lucky...maybe the 510 doesn't have many problems...but I've not had one issue with mine. It's not the latest and greatest but it has served me well for years and does all I need it to do. When the time comes for something new...not sure I'd go with a Garmin again. They do seem to have a ton of issues with a lot of their products.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Most of the "new functions" on the 520+ (vs. the 520) don't work in any meaningful way.

    So I'm not going to bother reading what "newer functions" garmin would have me believe are included on the 530
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    4,807
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Maybe I got lucky...maybe the 510 doesn't have many problems...but I've not had one issue with mine. It's not the latest and greatest but it has served me well for years and does all I need it to do. When the time comes for something new...not sure I'd go with a Garmin again. They do seem to have a ton of issues with a lot of their products.
    Mine is super slow, it got corrupted somehow and I had to hard reset it and make all my training pages and stuff again, and locks up for 5-10 seconds sometimes. I personally can't wait to get rid of my 510 if the new one is going to be better.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    ^^^ I fell for that at least 4 times in a row now. Instead each new model was just a whole new can of worms, appallingly bad, especially at the start. I'm looking forward to the 830!
    What, me worry?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42

    My quick review on the Edge 830 and 530

    So I picked up a 830 and 530. It's my first time with a bike computer. My plan is to use it for the following: Bike alarm, incident detection, live track, tracking other riders in my group, looking at trail maps, and overall data collection.

    Here are my initial thoughts: (I DID NOT READ THE ENTIRE MANUAL, so a lot of my complaints might be on me)

    1. Bike Alarm: alarm is not loud enough on the device. The main benefit is the notification on your cell that your bike is being stolen. Not sure about the range since I didn't test it. Overall I'd rate it a C.

    2. The live track feature is supposed to send an email every time it starts, it sends an email 50% of the time. I've only used it for 3 days, but 2 of 3 days, the live track webpage didn't work. Rating of F since it doesn't every time. Rating of B when it does work. I'm not sure if incident detection will work if live track isn't working so that concerns me.

    3. Ease of Use: I consider myself to be a gadget lover - but this thing is NOT intuitive. I can't figure out how to get into the mode where I see the other rider. Did a ride with a buddy and he was in my shared contacts list and we were both connected, but no idea how to get it to work. No, I didn't read the manual, I'll do that next. Rating D.

    How do I get to the mode where I can see other riders?


    4. The trail maps are ok. Rating C. There is a feature when you get to a fork, it's supposed to show you the options, didn't happen for me. Since the trails are wooded, it's hard to tell if you're facing the correct direction. When I did a road ride, the maps were great.

    5. Accuracy. On a trail ride, strava on my phone showed 9.6 miles, the Garmin 7.2 miles. Not sure which one is more accurate.

    6. Touchscreen vs Not: I much prefer the touchscreen. Easier to navigate the menus which are already confusing and too many. The touch didn't seem to recognize the swipe 100% of the time while on the trail and that was annoying.

    7. I have SRAM AXS shifting. I was told Garmin can show data from AXS, not sure how since I didn't see anything in the Garmin store about AXS.

    8. I wish I could see the map and current speed in one screen.

    9. I like txt messages showing up on screen.

    10. The screen in daylight is amazing.

    I'll keep playing with it but wanted to share some initial feedback.

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-2019-05-28-23_05_38-video-google-photos.jpg

  9. #9
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Looks like some of the complaints are related to unrealistic expectations, potentially due to being insufficiently aware of how these things actually work, especially on a mtb. Some, because RTFM. Others, because Garmin produces shitty manuals, anyway, that don't describe every feature on every device. To learn everything about them, you have to spend time digging through the menus and exploring. You just have to.

    And, of course, I'm jaded enough that I know that all these extra features are on the device to begin with because of people like you who always want more more more out of a device. Little computers like this work better when they have fewer features. They have limited processing power and battery life, anyway, and the more extras you enable and use, the worse the performance will be.

    And that's not even considering whether all of those extras are well-implemented. There's a long history of device manufacturers putting something on a device just to have some new feature, but then that feature doesn't really work all that well. Navigation on mtb trails is a good one for these computers. The computer will let you navigate mtb trails like roads, but it's not going to work as well that way. Live Tracking is another. That feature has existed for years, and it doesn't work that well. This is one of those things that is easy enough to learn about if you'd done your research. There are a whole lot of hardware reasons why. And then the software just appears to not work very well, either. The list just goes on.

    I can see the current speed on the map screen of my Edge 520 if I want. I do not, so I do not display it. But I bet your Edge 530 will, too.

    I don't GAF about messages from people while I'm riding. Riding is my "me" time and everybody else can go f*ck themselves if they can't wait until I'm done. My friends and family are aware of this and expect that I'll return messages or calls when I can. I ride in an area with extremely erratic reception and I work jobs where I cannot respond immediately, anyway. My wife's parents don't get this and she has issues with them calling because she won't just put her foot down.

  10. #10
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,321
    Got mine last week and it's acting wonky. doubling the mileage and giving crappy gps data. I'll post up a review in the next week or so.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    4,807
    Lots of reviews about defective units on retail websites. I cancelled my order til they sort it out.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Read these:

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html

    The one thing I've always wanted and never got from Garmin was a device where the basic features worked reliably. They always bail on a product before they get it right. The touch screen on the 820 is an abomination. I've had three between buying one, a warranty replacement, and a replacement after breaking one. That's not saying anything about all the bugs. It's very rare I go for a ride and everything works as it should. 520 has plenty of it's own problems. I have one of those too. With previous units I would run down-rev firmware as the final version usually screwed up more things than it fixed.

    With these two new units, they've piled in so many new features I can't imagine them ever working right. None of the simpler previous units ever did.



    DC says the 530 is garmins best unit yet and didn't seem to find any major flaws with it. I picked up a 520 about a month ago and so far it's been perfect but I only use a small portion of it's features.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  13. #13
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Lots of reviews about defective units on retail websites. I cancelled my order til they sort it out.
    Any links?
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    4,807
    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Any links?

    Go to the REI website and look up the 530. There are a half dozen 1-2 star reviews, one 3 star, and one 5 star.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    2. The live track feature is supposed to send an email every time it starts, it sends an email 50% of the time. I've only used it for 3 days, but 2 of 3 days, the live track webpage didn't work. Rating of F since it doesn't every time. Rating of B when it does work. I'm not sure if incident detection will work if live track isn't working so that concerns me.
    It won't. At least, it didn't the time mine went off randomly and the button presses to cancel it didn't work in the cold. It said the distress message had been sent. It hadn't.

    There seem to be some very broad issues with pretty much all of garmin's units staying connected to android phones. Previously Garmin support blamed my old beat-up android-m phone, and I was tempted to believe them.... but a year later, I just bought a pixel 3... Which so far has improved absolutely nothing about Garmin's phone connection issues.

    As I've mentioned before, my old 520 worked perfectly with livetrack in 2015.

    At least, I think it did... because the 4 years of hardware and software "upgrades" made since then have been so dysfunctional, I'm seriously starting to wonder if I imagined the whole thing.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    The official Garmin 530 and 830 user forums are a good place to get an idea of what going on with these devices.

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...ing/f/edge-530

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...ing/f/edge-830
    What, me worry?

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    530
    does the 830 touch screen work well with normal mtn bike gloves?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by fitnessgeek View Post
    does the 830 touch screen work well with normal mtn bike gloves?
    Yea - it's ok. I had some issues with not swiping left and right every time but it happened last night without gloves. But overall it's not bad, just not smartphone good.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Yea - it's ok. I had some issues with not swiping left and right every time but it happened last night without gloves. But overall it's not bad, just not smartphone good.
    thanks! I was just reading some other comments online and folks were saying it works so long as the glove has some rubber on the tip of the finger. This may be my next bike computer.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I think an important note on the touch screen is not to compare it against sensitivity with a smart phone and other mobile devices. Just think about how often your screen would be changing if it was uber sensitive. I believe it was by design that it is less sensitive to avoid accidental screen input.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    The official Garmin 530 and 830 user forums are a good place to get an idea of what going on with these devices.
    Indeed.

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...trava-segments

    So the Strava segment feature they have been advertising since 2015 still doesn't work most of the time.....
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  22. #22
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    Indeed.

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...trava-segments

    So the Strava segment feature they have been advertising since 2015 still doesn't work most of the time.....
    Works fine on my 810, 130 and 935.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    410
    So i'm looking for a computer that will do GPS on trails as I am starting to plan trips to locations I've never been to, more complicated routes etc. Was hoping that the 530 with the trailforks stuff was going to be the ticket but maybe not? What else (short of riding with my iphone X strapped to my handle bars) should I look at for this.

    J-

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by jjc155 View Post
    So i'm looking for a computer that will do GPS on trails as I am starting to plan trips to locations I've never been to, more complicated routes etc. Was hoping that the 530 with the trailforks stuff was going to be the ticket but maybe not? What else (short of riding with my iphone X strapped to my handle bars) should I look at for this.

    J-
    I'm slowly getting my 830 to work as I hoped. However, trailforks on the 830 isn't great. It's hard to see or understand the trails unless you zoom in a lot. IMO, an iphone mounted on the bars would be far superior and more useful than the Edge.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Works fine on my 810, 130 and 935.
    I honestly can't remember if it ever worked on my 520....I recall success on a really short segment on a really straight road, and a few failures, but I'm not sure I tried anything much before I lost that head unit.

    On the 520 plus, I'm batting .000 lifetime, including short segments on straight roads.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  26. #26
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by jjc155 View Post
    So i'm looking for a computer that will do GPS on trails as I am starting to plan trips to locations I've never been to, more complicated routes etc. Was hoping that the 530 with the trailforks stuff was going to be the ticket but maybe not? What else (short of riding with my iphone X strapped to my handle bars) should I look at for this.

    J-
    Don't expect any computer to be a magic bullet for trail navigation. For mtb purposes, navigation heavily depends on the quality of the data you're working from, and not all digital data is of the same quality. I've been burned too many times by poor quality digital data that I don't expect much from it. My Garmin contains mostly just topo reference maps and some trail maps.

    I also carry high quality paper maps where available (which means I've spent a pretty penny on them, and have a dedicated map storage area). Beyond that, I also have access to the mtbproject and trailforks apps on my phone. None of the digital maps are reliable enough for me to abandon all the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    I'm slowly getting my 830 to work as I hoped. However, trailforks on the 830 isn't great. It's hard to see or understand the trails unless you zoom in a lot. IMO, an iphone mounted on the bars would be far superior and more useful than the Edge.
    phone on the bars? shoot me now. That's a terrible system for navigating mtb trails.

    Honestly, the thing that is most useful to keep my map consultation time on the trail to a minimum is studying maps at home before I go anywhere. And occasionally a refresher at the trailhead to discuss plans with the group that may or may not involve pulling the map out. It might just be a quick discussion of the route, depending on how familiar the group is with the area.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Since I've been dumping on Garmin a fair bit lately, I'll try to say something upbeat:

    Livetrack is now working and auto-starting for the first time in a year, and it's good to have it back. Hopefully future software updates do not undo this.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    Since I've been dumping on Garmin a fair bit lately, I'll try to say something upbeat:

    Livetrack is now working and auto-starting for the first time in a year, and it's good to have it back. Hopefully future software updates do not undo this.
    I'll add that my Edge has been much better about Livetrack starting most of the time, and also the email link working nearly all the time. The day I got it, Garmin must've been having server issues.

    I was able to get Group Track to start with a buddy but it wasn't working well. Wouldn't show him sometimes or update. I'll have to play with that more.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    ^^^ what's changed? Yesterday my 820 wouldn't connect to my phone until I opened Connect on the phone and tapped the 820 icon at the top of the page. It won't connect on its own. That's what it's been doing for a while.

    Something that should have been working 3+ years ago is finally, maybe, working! Amazing.
    What, me worry?

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Yesterday my 820 wouldn't connect to my phone until I opened Connect on the phone and tapped the 820 icon at the top of the page. It won't connect on its own. That's what it's been doing for a while.
    That's where I was at with the 520+. Garmin support blamed my crappy old phone, and I recently bought a pixel3 which did the exact same thing....

    ...Until Monday. I am now auto-starting live track, and sending my wife a map that works (not the south Atlantic Ocean). Without even opening the app.

    It's throw-back week at Garmin... livetrack works just like my old 520 used to do with my Blackberry in 2015.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    398
    I've only had the 520+ for a few months so take this for what it's worth. 1st bike computer. Also, I've no mt bike time with it (yet). Only road so far.

    On the road, it is pretty awesome. turn by turn (audio as I have a blutooth earpiece) as well as on the device itself. Fantastic.

    I tried group track once (albeit in a hasty 5 min before ride start in parking lot). Didn't get it to work, but maybe I'm just doing something wrong - likely.

    No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that.

    course load is a little slow but I usually load my course before I get to the trailhead, parking lot so this is not an issue (so far) for me.

    I've loaded openstreet maps (thanks DCRM). Awesome! Garmin's base map was upgraded recently and is now also very detailed.

    Again, no time on trail but I do have trailforks loaded and looks to be very easy to use. No need to have cell service (obviously). Just sat's which shouldn't be a problem anywhere.

    I've not used live segments and so can't comment. I am on strava and have my ride auto upload which is nice.

    Battery life is good (so far). Longest ride I've been on is 30 some miles and both device and iphone plenty charge left.

    Never have problem pairing iphone se with garmin conenct. shrug ymmv

    garmin has updated the 520 + so now can pan (albeit a little clunky as have to use buttons) but I'd rather that then f with a touch screen with gloves on.

    mt bike has a remote which allows easy (ier) toggling through the main screens. luv it.

    i'd never consider mounting my iphone on my mt bike for obvious reasons.
    2015 Santa Cruz 5010 C

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta2010 View Post
    ...No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that....
    Edge 705, 520 and 820 can have data fields on the map screen. I'd be surprised if the 520+ can't.
    What, me worry?

  33. #33
    Loud tyres save lives
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta2010 View Post

    No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that.
    The much bigger screen on the 1030 allows you to have two data fields on the map screen. It's quite nice for navigation as there's more space on top to show upcoming directions and how far they are as well as still showing a good chunk of the map. Then again as long as you know which direction to take you don't really need much else, I only use it for the road bike and keep the smaller 520 for the road bikes.

    Never have problem pairing iphone se with garmin conenct. shrug ymmv
    This seems to vary a lot for people as I'm the same as you, no issues connecting my Fenix 5s, 520 or 1030 to my Android phone.

    garmin has updated the 520 + so now can pan (albeit a little clunky as have to use buttons) but I'd rather that then f with a touch screen with gloves on.
    The buttons can be a bit clunky but not only do they work well with gloves they also work well in the rain and mud as well which the touchscreens don't. In particular cancelling the incident detection on the 1030 in the rain can be a real challenge as you have to hold part of the screen for five seconds but it doesn't register continuously so the timer keeps counting down.

    i'd never consider mounting my iphone on my mt bike for obvious reasons.
    Agreed, would much rather have the smaller Garmin on the bars and my phone safely tucked away.

    Good to hear livetrack is working again as that's been my only frustration with Garmin recently.
    2014 Trek Fuel Ex 8
    2015 Trek Farley 6
    2016 Trek Stache 7

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daxdagr8t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    515
    I just got my 530. Anyone got a good mount for a 35mm mtb hb?

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  35. #35
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
    Reputation: alexbn921's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    I just got my 530. Anyone got a good mount for a 35mm mtb hb?

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I use the the k edge adjustable one. I tend to hit the cap mounted one.
    https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...garmin-mounts/
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daxdagr8t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    515
    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I use the the k edge adjustable one. I tend to hit the cap mounted one.
    https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...garmin-mounts/
    Lools good, i have a 35mm stem so we shall see.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42
    Posting another update on my Edge 830:

    1. The livetrack continues to initiate some of the time. Pretty disappointing as I rely on it for incident detection when I ride alone. I'm assuming if livetrack doesn't start, incident detection doesn't work either.

    2. I rode some paved trails with my family tonight and the maps were actually useful!

    3. I picked up the Varia RTL 510 Radar and love it. So far, it's 100% for detecting cars (about 30 cars so far). It also picks up other bikers, some of the time. Here's a video that shows how early it picks up cars. I don't plan to use this on MTB trails, I'll use it for riding to work.

    4. I used my bike alarm feature for the first time. Rode to the Gym and forgot my lock so I left it in the hallway with the alarm on. I set off the alarm intentionally and popped up an alert on my phone.


  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Posting another update on my Edge 830:

    1. The livetrack continues to initiate some of the time.
    Yep, after going 5/5 last week it dropped back to 1/3 over the weekend. I now think that auto-starting livetrack at the same time my phone is switching out of my home wifi to LTE might be a factor in some, but not all,of the failures.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    3. I picked up the Varia RTL 510 Radar and love it. So far, it's 100% for detecting cars (about 30 cars so far). It also picks up other bikers, some of the time.
    Mine seemed to have more false positives in the winter when the air was colder, the RTL has settled down now that it's summer. I tend to get the false positives in the same spot every day, and since one of the two is in a location where no car could possible be behind me.... it's annoying me less.

    I think the true value of the RTL is on long road rides on very low traffic roads, when I basically phase out (since I haven't seen a car in 30 minutes), and that beep snaps me back well before the car passes. Unfortunately, I don't do many rural road rides any more these days.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    ... 4. I used my bike alarm feature for the first time....
    It would not be nice to 'accidentally' nudge a bike equipped with one of these parked outside a restroom.

    I have an 820 and between blue tooth randomly not connecting to the phone and/or Livetrack not starting I gave up relying on it. It's nice to see that the new 530 and 830 are carrying on the fine tradition. I use the free Glympse app on my phone. Strava Beacon is another option if you subscribe to the Summit Safety pack at $2/mo.

    Agree Varia can be useful on very low traffic roads. Less so otherwise.
    What, me worry?

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    Lools good, i have a 35mm stem so we shall see.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I've been really happy with the Barfly 4 for mounting on 35mm bars.
    https://barflybike.com/collections/m.../bar-fly-4-mtb

  41. #41
    Loud tyres save lives
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    516
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Posting another update on my Edge 830:

    1. The livetrack continues to initiate some of the time. Pretty disappointing as I rely on it for incident detection when I ride alone. I'm assuming if livetrack doesn't start, incident detection doesn't work either.
    Incident detection is separate to livetrack so it's possible to have incident detection working without livetrack at least on the 520/1030, I haven't tried the 530/830. I'd recommend testing it out as it's handy anyway to see how it shows on the Edge and crucially how to cancel it before it sends the alert. I accidentally triggered it when I was first using it and didn't manage to cancel it in time which gave my emergency contact a bit of a fright.

    I find the easiest way to trigger it is to get the bike up to full speed and then slam on the brakes, the phone should set off a siren noise and then Edge should show incident detected and give you a 30 second timer to cancel it. On the 1030 you've got to hold your finger on part of the display for five seconds to cancel it, otherwise it sends a text message to your emergency contact advising the person an accident has been detected and giving a Google maps link.

    3. I picked up the Varia RTL 510 Radar and love it. So far, it's 100% for detecting cars (about 30 cars so far). It also picks up other bikers, some of the time. Here's a video that shows how early it picks up cars. I don't plan to use this on MTB trails, I'll use it for riding to work.
    I've had the original radar unit since it was released and it's one of my favourite bike purchases as I find it so handy on the road bike when I'm on quiet roads since it's hard to hear the cars due to the wind noise and might not see a car for hours so now I get a handy little beep not just telling me a car is coming but how fast and how many cars.
    2014 Trek Fuel Ex 8
    2015 Trek Farley 6
    2016 Trek Stache 7

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Here is an article from DCRainmaker regarding Garmins Software glitches. Your LiveTrack is identified as having been issues for a long time, same as a few folks have mentioned here in the thread.
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/06/...stability.html




    Anybody with the 530 have input about basic function? How are the buttons working -reviews state they are faulty. Ya'll have any issues with the bottons and menus. Not considering the Live track type of things that are known to be unreliable.

    Waiting to get the 530 but reviews make me think a sale priced 520 would be better.

    Thanks

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Here is an article from DCRainmaker regarding Garmins Software glitches. Your LiveTrack is identified as having been issues for a long time, same as a few folks have mentioned here in the thread.
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/06/...stability.html




    Anybody with the 530 have input about basic function? How are the buttons working -reviews state they are faulty. Ya'll have any issues with the bottons and menus. Not considering the Live track type of things that are known to be unreliable.

    Waiting to get the 530 but reviews make me think a sale priced 520 would be better.

    Thanks
    I had a 530 and during my brief use, the buttons worked well.

  44. #44
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    Yeah Garmin Australia had a post on their facebook asking what they could do better/what would people like to see for their software, rekkon that was a direct result of DC's post.

    In other news, my 1000 decide to give up the ghost on the weekend, it had been getting a bit flaky,had to do a reset about a month ago, but it stopped connecting to anything and then the on/off button broke. Figure ~5 years of lots of use it did well. But since I jsut spent a bunch of money on other junk I didn't need couldn't quite afford to replace it with a 1030, so went for the 530.
    So far, seems to work well (although the buttons do seem to occasionally miss, so when youre trying to go up/down menus, nothing, then when you press again it goes 2 spots.
    Otherwise works as advertised.... but OMG its SO small! I can barley see it (so far only on road rides)... and I don't care what people say, I want my touchscreen back, not having it is sucktastic. Figure I'll use it for a bit, then donate the the GF's tri bike and buy a 1030 when I have the spare cash.
    All the gear and no idea.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ghettocruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,770
    My celebration of livetrack's return was definitely premature.

    The 520+ hasn't even tried to auto-start on the last three rides, and when I went for a run on the weekend, my running watch gave me a "livetrack failed" message 7 km in, even though the 520+ is set as the livetrack device and the watch isn't.

    The 520+ also got massively confused this morning trying to switch from one bike sensor to another and I had to turn it off/on, something that has never happened before.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Yeah Garmin Australia had a post on their facebook asking what they could do better/what would people like to see for their software, rekkon that was a direct result of DC's post.

    In other news, my 1000 decide to give up the ghost on the weekend, it had been getting a bit flaky,had to do a reset about a month ago, but it stopped connecting to anything and then the on/off button broke. Figure ~5 years of lots of use it did well. But since I jsut spent a bunch of money on other junk I didn't need couldn't quite afford to replace it with a 1030, so went for the 530.
    So far, seems to work well (although the buttons do seem to occasionally miss, so when youre trying to go up/down menus, nothing, then when you press again it goes 2 spots.
    Otherwise works as advertised.... but OMG its SO small! I can barley see it (so far only on road rides)... and I don't care what people say, I want my touchscreen back, not having it is sucktastic. Figure I'll use it for a bit, then donate the the GF's tri bike and buy a 1030 when I have the spare cash.
    My eyes aren't perfect anymore.
    When you say you can't see the screen, do you mean when you're moving and trying to see how fast you are going you can't see the screen, or do you mean sitting in the parking lot going through menus you can't see the screen?

    I have a Cateye Enduro8 on one of the bikes. I can see the large number but can't make out the smaller numbers too well if it's not bright. When I ride, I don't care. I'm interested in the data to record, not the data to read live (most of the time). I don't intend to read the screen while riding unless it's the easier stuff and I'm curious of my current speed on a pedaly single track that doesn't require 90% focus.

    The 530 and 830 are the same size, touch screen wouldn't do much to improve visibility aside from the screen actually slightly larger -but the 1000 series would be bigger. I don't feel a device that large would be appropriate (for me) on a MTB. I'm not sure I want to pony up an extra hundred bucks for just a gain of touch screen. If the 830 was $50 more than the 530 I'd consider it. Considering I'm also looking at 2 speed sensors, and perhaps a cadence sensor. There is a configuration of bundles I priced out that is cheapest for all the goodies. Probably no cadence sensor, but it's in one of the bundle packs.

  47. #47
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    I^ I just find it difficult to read (especially at 5 am when it's -3), I probably need a new prescription, heck probably bi-focals these days!. Been using a 1000 for the last ~5 years, run it with 10 fields/screen (well Di2 plus 9 on the road) I think 8 on the mtb (less when racing).
    I'm probably not your normal user (I even run out front mounts on the mtb, shock horror!). I really find that I data whore on the road, less on the mtb, keeps me occupied on the boring bits.
    I really prefer, big and touchscreen, i could live without, but I'd rather have them.
    All the gear and no idea.

  48. #48
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    I^ I just find it difficult to read (especially at 5 am when it's -3), I probably need a new prescription, heck probably bi-focals these days!. Been using a 1000 for the last ~5 years, run it with 10 fields/screen (well Di2 plus 9 on the road) I think 8 on the mtb (less when racing).
    I'm probably not your normal user (I even run out front mounts on the mtb, shock horror!). I really find that I data whore on the road, less on the mtb, keeps me occupied on the boring bits.
    I really prefer, big and touchscreen, i could live without, but I'd rather have them.
    Tried sending the 1000 back to Garmin to be refurbished?
    I've done it with a Zumo motorbike gps and a Forerunner 620 watch. Each cost about $100 to replace.

  49. #49
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Tried sending the 1000 back to Garmin to be refurbished?
    I've done it with a Zumo motorbike gps and a Forerunner 620 watch. Each cost about $100 to replace.
    Yeah thought about it...but then...I don't have the excuse to buy new crap!
    All the gear and no idea.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    ...When I ride, I don't care. I'm interested in the data to record, not the data to read live (most of the time). I don't intend to read the screen while riding unless it's the easier stuff and I'm curious of my current speed on a pedaly single track that doesn't require 90% focus...
    Seems like a Garmin Edge 25 would meet your requirements in a small and inexpensive package. It'll record your ride data and display your speed in large easy to see numerals.
    What, me worry?

  51. #51
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Seems like a Garmin Edge 25 would meet your requirements in a small and inexpensive package. It'll record your ride data and display your speed in large easy to see numerals.
    except it records terrible data owing to the fact that it won't do 1sec recording, pretty sure, unless you're using a HRM. maybe not at all. it's been awhile since I've seen one.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    ^^^ that could well be. I've used Edge (705, 500, 520 820) units since 2010, never have set 1 sec recording, and have not found the tracking consequentially lacking. I do use wheel sensors though, and most rides I'm using a HRM if that's relevant.
    What, me worry?

  53. #53
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^^^ that could well be. I've used Edge (705, 500, 520 820) units since 2010, never have set 1 sec recording, and have not found the tracking consequentially lacking. I do use wheel sensors though, and most rides I'm using a HRM if that's relevant.
    Depends on what you ride. IME, Garmin's "smart recording" is absolute GARBAGE on twisty trail networks. Living in the eastern half of the country, those are practically unavoidable. They're a bit less common where I live now in Western NC, but there are enough around still that I'm not willing to give up 1sec recording for anything.

    It tends to get reasonably close with distances, but the actual map of the track is where it becomes obvious that the data is a hot mess. Years ago, I experimented with this and would frequently get the track crossing over itself and deviating farther from the path I actually rode than I'd get from 1sec recording. Corners would get heavily trimmed and then distance would get added back in with extra drift on straight sections.

    It's a totally different scenario for other activities. I think part of the problem is the speed you're traveling on a bike, on top of the changes in direction. On my handheld (Oregon 450t), I leave it on smart recording. Smart recording works great when I'm hiking. The data from that winds up WAY better than it does when I'm riding, regardless of the path of travel. So some part of it is definitely also speed related. On the bike, I won't touch it.

    FWIW, I don't think most of the other devices default to 1sec recording unless you use a power meter. Maybe they will for a HRM, though.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    No, I'm definitely a numbers geek. The more data the better -just don't need it instantaneously while on the move.
    I was lagging on the purchase of a 520+ then the 530 was released (I didn't know there was one on the way). I was all set to go but realized it hadn't released yet. Then the consumer review pages made lots of mention of poor back button functionality.

    I'd hate to get an 830 just for slight screen increase and a 1030 sounds unreasonably large for a MTB.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Depends on what you ride. IME, Garmin's "smart recording" is absolute GARBAGE on twisty trail networks. Living in the eastern half of the country...
    That'd be 95% of my rides. Twisty East coast. My tracks might clip a corner here or there, but nothing egregious.
    What, me worry?

  56. #56
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    That'd be 95% of my rides. Twisty East coast. My tracks might clip a corner here or there, but nothing egregious.
    maybe you have different criteria than I do for what constitutes reasonable quality data, or maybe Garmin has quietly improved the accuracy of their "smart" recording.

    This is the only one I could track down where I was certain I used smart recording. But I know I had others, longer ago, but that was before I put descriptions or titles on my rides for future reference. It was also back when I saved all my rides on my computer in topofusion and it's really hard to distinguish now which rides used smart recording vs 1sec.

    I'm not sure if smart recording had anything to do with the whole track being shifted or not, but that particular GPS (Forerunner 310XT) did not record that way before or after this ride at that location. That said, if you compare the yellow trails on the basemap (pretty accurate, though not perfect) to my red track, you see that for almost all of the tight turns, the track meets or crosses itself. And this one isn't as bad of an example as some of the older ones I have. Those are the more telling occasions.

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-garmin_smart_recording.png

    My evidence may not be as good as you'd like to see, but it's the best I can come up with. It was mostly my experience with smart recording during the time of 2011-2015 or so that solidified my opinion that it sucks. I gave up trying after that. Somewhere in there I've got tracks from an Edge 705, but not very many. I didn't keep that device for very long.

  57. #57
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,219
    First rule of Fight Club: ďDonít talk about Fight Club.Ē

    First rule of Garmin Edge: ďDonít ever use ĎSmart Recording.íĒ
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    I got the 830 on Monday. I had been using an 820 on the trail, and I use a 1000 on the road. I had an 810 before it, an 800 and a 500. FWIW I ride about 5,000 miles a year, mostly trail, so I use these things a shitload.

    Let me say up front that I think the 820 is the worst device that Garmin makes, so it was a low bar, but the 830 fixes almost everything I couldn't stand about the 820. I loved my 810 and regretted selling it on after a short time with the 820, but I stuck it out for a season...

    I've only done a handful of rides on the 830 and so far so good. The MTB metrics are pretty cool (albeit useless) but I will say that the jump-o-meter is going to get me in trouble. I was able to eBay my 820 for $250 so it only cost me a $150 to move up to the 830 and I'm really glad I did. The 820 is trash but so far the 830 is pretty solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    The one thing I've always wanted and never got from Garmin was a device where the basic features worked reliably. They always bail on a product before they get it right. The touch screen on the 820 is an abomination. I've had three between buying one, a warranty replacement, and a replacement after breaking one. That's not saying anything about all the bugs.

    I agree with this 10000%. That's the first thing I noticed about the 830 - the touchscreen works extremely well, even with gloves on. The 820 screen is a laggy, unresponsive POS. It seems to have two settings, "activate when looked at" or "poke the shit out of it, hope for the best". It was beyond frustrating on the trail when you're just trying to check a map on a humid day when mosquitoes are ruthless. How I made it a season without throwing that thing into the woods is a mystery to me.

    I don't use the 1000 for MTB because it's just too big, but I still think it's the best cycling GPS that garmin makes. I had a 1030 for a while and actually went through three of them - they kept bricking on me. The 1000 is (knock on wood) super reliable like my 810 was, and I'm not wild about the new logic/feel of the 820/1030.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I got the 830 on Monday. I had been using an 820 on the trail, and I use a 1000 on the road. I had an 810 before it, an 800 and a 500. FWIW I ride about 5,000 miles a year, mostly trail, so I use these things a shitload.

    Let me say up front that I think the 820 is the worst device that Garmin makes, so it was a low bar, but the 830 fixes almost everything I couldn't stand about the 820. I loved my 810 and regretted selling it on after a short time with the 820, but I stuck it out for a season...

    I've only done a handful of rides on the 830 and so far so good. The MTB metrics are pretty cool (albeit useless) but I will say that the jump-o-meter is going to get me in trouble. I was able to eBay my 820 for $250 so it only cost me a $150 to move up to the 830 and I'm really glad I did. The 820 is trash but so far the 830 is pretty solid.




    I agree with this 10000%. That's the first thing I noticed about the 830 - the touchscreen works extremely well, even with gloves on. The 820 screen is a laggy, unresponsive POS. It seems to have two settings, "activate when looked at" or "poke the shit out of it, hope for the best". It was beyond frustrating on the trail when you're just trying to check a map on a humid day when mosquitoes are ruthless. How I made it a season without throwing that thing into the woods is a mystery to me.

    I don't use the 1000 for MTB because it's just too big, but I still think it's the best cycling GPS that garmin makes. I had a 1030 for a while and actually went through three of them - they kept bricking on me. The 1000 is (knock on wood) super reliable like my 810 was, and I'm not wild about the new logic/feel of the 820/1030.
    Thanks for that, sounds like some good sound experienced use.
    You feel it's easily worth the $100 extra for the 830 vs 530?

    You make a good point about the difficulty of use while on a ride and frustrated due to conditions, like a mosquito swarm!

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    ...I'm not sure if smart recording had anything to do with the whole track being shifted or not, but that particular GPS (Forerunner 310XT) did not record that way before or after this ride at that location...
    We are digressing a bit here, but I guess if there was a bug in the Smart recording algorithm, it might shift a track like that, though it's not something I've experienced. Presumably, smart recording decides on the number of coordinate points to save based on the immediate tortuousness of the track. So, basically, you get many fewer data points on relative straight or gently curved track segments and more when things get jiggy. The end result in my experience has been some clipping of corners, or seeing some portions of a curved track being represented by connected straight segments, which for me are purely cosmetic concerns. I'm not at all arguing against using 1 sec recording. I'm just mentioning that for my purposes, smart recording has been acceptable. Going back to my suggestion of using a Edge 25, which started this, its lack of one second recording is something that should be considered, but shouldn't necessarily disqualify it, IMO.
    What, me worry?

  61. #61
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,219
    hey Seventh-777, quick question on the 830 screen: what happens when you wipe sweat off the screen with your gloved hand?
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  62. #62
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    The 820 screen is a laggy, unresponsive POS. It seems to have two settings, "activate when looked at" or "poke the shit out of it, hope for the best". It was beyond frustrating on the trail when you're just trying to check a map on a humid day when mosquitoes are ruthless. How I made it a season without throwing that thing into the woods is a mystery to me.
    This is the most hilarious description of the touchscreen on the Edge 820 that I've seen. I used an Oregon 450 on the bike for a number of years, when I was really unimpressed with the cycling models Garmin was releasing at the time. The touchscreen on that one worked fairly reliably, even if it wasn't the most whiz-bang type of touchscreen out there. Swiping was just a suggestion. Taps worked fine, though. I still like a touchscreen for a handheld device, but I grew to dislike it on the bike.

    Fast forward to today, and the drive for super responsive touchscreens in general has resulted in an enormous mixed bag. Performance of my phone screens has continued to keep me away from them on my bike computer. The Samsung Galaxy S5 screen was the worst. I'd even say it was worse than the worst descriptions of the Edge 820 I've read. It was so bad that if you activated a screen that was sweaty, the only way to stop the demon possession was to remove the battery. It'd fill up the memory with porn, use up all your data, change the default language to Vietnamese, text 10 people, and download 50 apps because you pulled it out of your pocket. My current LG V20 doesn't go Poltergeist on me, but it's still hard to use when it's sweaty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Going back to my suggestion of using a Edge 25, which started this, its lack of one second recording is something that should be considered, but shouldn't necessarily disqualify it, IMO.
    I don't think it's digressing too much. I've had enough issues with it that I'll never buy a receiver that doesn't offer me the ability to use 1sec recording as a setting, and I won't recommend one to anyone who mountain bikes, either. Whether I or anyone else chooses to use the 1sec recording option is another issue altogether. But I remember when the Edge 500 came out and people were pissed that it didn't allow 1sec recording. There was enough uproar about it that Garmin added it through a firmware update. I never used that model, but the uproar was occurring at around the time I experienced my own issues with the smart recording setting on other models of GPS.

    The only sort of use scenario where I'd recommend an Edge 25 would be to a beginner road rider who might want to record HR and cadence, but isn't doing actual training, or to someone who's riding greenways and such. But, it's a hard sell when the data quality of that device wasn't really any better than what you'd get from a phone app that's free.

    For me, map accuracy isn't simply a cosmetic thing. It's honestly THE reason that I use a GPS bike computer instead of a simple $25 cyclocomputer. If the device can't record or even display my position accurately, it's a non-starter. Fortunately, there are plenty of devices on the market now (most not sold by Garmin) that cost about the same as the old Edge 25 did, but are massively better devices.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Thanks for that, sounds like some good sound experienced use.
    You feel it's easily worth the $100 extra for the 830 vs 530?
    I think it is, yeah. I haven't really dug into the details of the 530 but as I understand it the main differences on the 830 are the touchscreen adn the fact that it can route like a "normal" GPS with POIs and whatnot. I don't care about the routing since I don't use mine on the road, but I do like the touchscreen and think it's worth it. Being able to quickly swipe the screen instead of fiddling w/buttons when I just want a quick map check is worth it to me, especially with gloves on and extra-especially with gloves on in the winter.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    hey Seventh-777, quick question on the 830 screen: what happens when you wipe sweat off the screen with your gloved hand?
    I actually don't know yet, since it's been reasonably dry up here but I assume it'll swap screens. I'll report back if it's weird about it at all.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    ^^^I recommend caution before deciding on the touch screen. The 830 is supposedly improved, but I have an 820 (had 3 in total) and the touch screen totally sux. It's very erratic, sometimes responding but more often not. Response it slow as well. It's basically unusable while in motion. Any water or sweat makes it unusable and the device goes crazy responding to drops running around on the display. I got a 520 just so I would have buttons instead. Like I said, the 830 is supposed to be better, but I'd check it out first.
    What, me worry?

  65. #65
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,219
    Yep thatís my fear because Iíd be using it for road and mountain and when riding dirt the position of the computer on the stem is directly in the sweat line. Not a problem on the road because the computer is out front beyond the bars. (Not a good idea to the same on a mountain bike.)
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I think I'm going to put the purchase on hold AGAIN. I'm to a point where I wanted to use it for an upcoming trip but aside from Garmin, have only found one source that has them in stock (the computer itself is but no speed sensors). Now there isn't much time to get it sorted out in time for a trip.

    Need to figure out what the return policy is before a retail store purchase so as to avoid a store credit.

    Darn.....

  67. #67
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I do like the touchscreen and think it's worth it. Being able to quickly swipe the screen instead of fiddling w/buttons when I just want a quick map check is worth it to me, especially with gloves on and extra-especially with gloves on in the winter.
    Interesting. I find the buttons for screen switching (Edge 520) do great for the purpose with minimal fuss. The point where I feel a lack of a touchscreen hinders device function is the fact that zooming the map requires extra button presses and panning the map just isn't an option. But just to switch screens for a quick check? Nah, the buttons aren't an issue at all.

    Also interesting about your assessment of winter use. That's when I find physical buttons to be most useful. While I've found some gloves to sorta work with touchscreens, I've found that the bulkier they are, the less reliable that gets (even with resistive touchscreens) and I don't want to make touchscreen functionality ANOTHER criteria for choosing gloves. It's already enough of a pain for me, because I have longish thumbs and many gloves have thumbs that are too short (so I then get cold spots).

    It is disappointing to hear that people are having problems with the buttons on the Edge 530, though. That's the sort of thing that firmware updates can't fix. I don't think I'd buy one of those, either.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Interesting. I find the buttons for screen switching (Edge 520) do great for the purpose with minimal fuss. The point where I feel a lack of a touchscreen hinders device function is the fact that zooming the map requires extra button presses and panning the map just isn't an option. But just to switch screens for a quick check? Nah, the buttons aren't an issue at all.

    Also interesting about your assessment of winter use. That's when I find physical buttons to be most useful. While I've found some gloves to sorta work with touchscreens, I've found that the bulkier they are, the less reliable that gets (even with resistive touchscreens) and I don't want to make touchscreen functionality ANOTHER criteria for choosing gloves. It's already enough of a pain for me, because I have longish thumbs and many gloves have thumbs that are too short (so I then get cold spots).

    It is disappointing to hear that people are having problems with the buttons on the Edge 530, though. That's the sort of thing that firmware updates can't fix. I don't think I'd buy one of those, either.
    I'd like both, and I don't know why they don't just go that route. Having a button in the middle on either side for left/right would be great. I'm just used to the touchscreen, and a quick flick across the screen is (to me, anyway) easier than hunting for buttons but it's really a moot point.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  69. #69
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I'd like both, and I don't know why they don't just go that route. Having a button in the middle on either side for left/right would be great. I'm just used to the touchscreen, and a quick flick across the screen is (to me, anyway) easier than hunting for buttons but it's really a moot point.
    I could go with a device that has both a touchscreen and physical buttons if I could turn the touchscreen completely off when I don't want it and let me enable it for those occasions where I might want to zoom/pan the map or type in text.

    It's also worth noting that the Edge Remote gives even quicker access to page through screens.

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/pn/010-12094-10

    I suppose a certain level of that functionality might be obtainable through the use of a touchscreen model and the edge remote. Ala the "mountain bike bundle". The question becomes whether the touchscreen on the Edge 830 can be completely disabled and how easy it is to turn it on/off.

    My Oregon 450 has some screen protection functionality, but it doesn't actually turn the touchscreen off. It just adds another tap before you can start using it. I don't actually like that function. It only sortof does what I want, and doesn't do it as well as I'd like (a long touch on the screen such as might occur accidentally, for example).

    If the device had a full selection of physical buttons AND a touchscreen, you could turn the touchscreen off/on by pressing 2 different buttons, for example.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I could go with a device that has both a touchscreen and physical buttons if I could turn the touchscreen completely off when I don't want it and let me enable it for those occasions where I might want to zoom/pan the map or type in text.

    It's also worth noting that the Edge Remote gives even quicker access to page through screens.

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/pn/010-12094-10
    I have one of those on my gravel bike, it works great. I had one on my roadie as well, but now my Di2 shifters swap the pages (which is extra snazzy). I have the remote mounted on my hoods on the gravel sled (cannondale slate). I think it would just be in the way on flat MTB bars, but I'm sure people find something that works for them.

    I suppose a certain level of that functionality might be obtainable through the use of a touchscreen model and the edge remote. Ala the "mountain bike bundle". The question becomes whether the touchscreen on the Edge 830 can be completely disabled and how easy it is to turn it on/off.

    My Oregon 450 has some screen protection functionality, but it doesn't actually turn the touchscreen off. It just adds another tap before you can start using it. I don't actually like that function. It only sortof does what I want, and doesn't do it as well as I'd like (a long touch on the screen such as might occur accidentally, for example).

    If the device had a full selection of physical buttons AND a touchscreen, you could turn the touchscreen off/on by pressing 2 different buttons, for example.
    Agreed. I wouldn't bother disabling it w/the remote but it would be nice to have the option anyway. I have a feeling that Garmin doesn't really give much of a shit about their consumer cycling stuff to be honest. I think their focus is on commercial fishing and aviation, and we just get the B-Team when it comes to our hardware. Their firmware QA team is awful, their forums are a wasteland and they just revamped them and broke every google link into them because they didn't bother with a simple server-side redirect. Little shit like that makes me think that the guys working on our $400 GPS units are interns, and they have their "real" team working on 6-figure fishing units.

    I've seen some great suggestions go by the wayside with them and honestly I'd just be happy if all of the currently advertised features worked all the time (like Lone Rager said early in this thread).
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  71. #71
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I have a feeling that Garmin doesn't really give much of a shit about their consumer cycling stuff to be honest. I think their focus is on commercial fishing and aviation, and we just get the B-Team when it comes to our hardware. Their firmware QA team is awful, their forums are a wasteland and they just revamped them and broke every google link into them because they didn't bother with a simple server-side redirect. Little shit like that makes me think that the guys working on our $400 GPS units are interns, and they have their "real" team working on 6-figure fishing units.

    I've seen some great suggestions go by the wayside with them and honestly I'd just be happy if all of the currently advertised features worked all the time (like Lone Rager said early in this thread).
    I don't think you're terribly off base here. They've really screwed up a number of times over the years, and it seems to fall into a couple categories. One, the old "let the customers be the testers" philosophy where it seems like their own product testers really aren't testing the devices very well and the early adopters wind up being the people to find all the bugs. The second one being that they've utterly failed to do their market research and release a device with a baffling set of "features" (or, limitations) that nobody wants, or at least isn't willing to pay what Garmin's asking for them. I'm not sure really where to put the stuff that's been "available" for years, yet barely functional (or completely nonfunctional).

    I'm going to bet that within the next year, somebody releases a computer with a feature set that'll pull me away from Garmin. Both Wahoo and Lezyne are close. Speaking of Wahoo, I see that Wahoo has dumped some cash into some kind of advertising deal with Strava, where people using Wahoo computers get special ads and special maps on Strava. It looks like a bunch of my friends are migrating over to Wahoo already.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I'm going to bet that within the next year, somebody releases a computer with a feature set that'll pull me away from Garmin. Both Wahoo and Lezyne are close. Speaking of Wahoo, I see that Wahoo has dumped some cash into some kind of advertising deal with Strava, where people using Wahoo computers get special ads and special maps on Strava. It looks like a bunch of my friends are migrating over to Wahoo already.
    I bought both the Element and the Element Bolt earlier this season, hoping to be blown away by an ultra-reliable device that would make me stop giving Garmin my money. I'm not a huge fan of how reliant they are on a connection to your phone, but given the hype about them everywhere I rolled the dice. (To be fair, it was the Amazon Prime dice which are risk free, haha.)

    I was completely underwhelmed. I could get by with the hardware feeling so cheap and plastic-y compared to the Garmin stuff, but I just couldn't justify spending $300 on a unit in 2019 that didn't have a color screen. I think they touted it as a "high contrast LCD for better battery life" or some such nonsense. When the first one showed up, I actually didn't even realize it was black and white only - it didn't occur to me to even check if it was color, I just assumed that it was. I've done a bunch of 12+ hour endurance races on a single charge of my 810 and 1000s, so battery life has never been an issue for me with the Edges anyway.

    They have a new color unit out this year (the Roam). It's hard to avoid all the hype and I'm definitely still curious about them. If the 830 was shitty, I'd almost certainly have returned it and given the Wahoo a shot but after 6 rides with the Garmin I'm yet to (knock on wood) run into any of the dozens of things I hated about the 820.

    I will say that while I don't like their GPS units, I have a Kickr and it's been fantastic. Their customer service is excellent too - I bought a Kickr Climb (the $700 front wheel replacement for the trainer that simulates grades) that died on me after 6 months. They refunded me with zero hassle/nonsense and offered me a discount on another one down the line if I want to pick up another. That's rare these days, Garmin would tell me to send it in to them so that I could buy a refurbished unit for the same price...
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  73. #73
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I bought both the Element and the Element Bolt earlier this season, hoping to be blown away by an ultra-reliable device that would make me stop giving Garmin my money. I'm not a huge fan of how reliant they are on a connection to your phone, but given the hype about them everywhere I rolled the dice. (To be fair, it was the Amazon Prime dice which are risk free, haha.)

    I was completely underwhelmed. I could get by with the hardware feeling so cheap and plastic-y compared to the Garmin stuff, but I just couldn't justify spending $300 on a unit in 2019 that didn't have a color screen. I think they touted it as a "high contrast LCD for better battery life" or some such nonsense. When the first one showed up, I actually didn't even realize it was black and white only - it didn't occur to me to even check if it was color, I just assumed that it was. I've done a bunch of 12+ hour endurance races on a single charge of my 810 and 1000s, so battery life has never been an issue for me with the Edges anyway.

    They have a new color unit out this year (the Roam). It's hard to avoid all the hype and I'm definitely still curious about them. If the 830 was shitty, I'd almost certainly have returned it and given the Wahoo a shot but after 6 rides with the Garmin I'm yet to (knock on wood) run into any of the dozens of things I hated about the 820.

    I will say that while I don't like their GPS units, I have a Kickr and it's been fantastic. Their customer service is excellent too - I bought a Kickr Climb (the $700 front wheel replacement for the trainer that simulates grades) that died on me after 6 months. They refunded me with zero hassle/nonsense and offered me a discount on another one down the line if I want to pick up another. That's rare these days, Garmin would tell me to send it in to them so that I could buy a refurbished unit for the same price...
    I am not asking to be blown away. I just want reliable, with better battery life than what Garmin has been offering.

    I like the idea of using phones for setup, but no experience with wahoo's implementation. I don't really even care about a rich color screen, in all honesty. A few colors for a map screen, but too many makes it hard to see.

    The big thing most garmin competitors are missing are maps that are good for mtb. I like how there are lots of free sources available for garmins, and how it's possible to make my own. Nobody else offers that.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daxdagr8t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    515
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I am not asking to be blown away. I just want reliable, with better battery life than what Garmin has been offering.

    I like the idea of using phones for setup, but no experience with wahoo's implementation. I don't really even care about a rich color screen, in all honesty. A few colors for a map screen, but too many makes it hard to see.

    The big thing most garmin competitors are missing are maps that are good for mtb. I like how there are lots of free sources available for garmins, and how it's possible to make my own. Nobody else offers that.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    I found trailforks very useful with my 530 .

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  75. #75
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    I found trailforks very useful with my 530 .

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I get the maps I want from Garmin's devices without trailforks.

    Not so with other brands.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: thasingletrackmastah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    439
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Seems like a Garmin Edge 25 would meet your requirements in a small and inexpensive package. It'll record your ride data and display your speed in large easy to see numerals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    except it records terrible data owing to the fact that it won't do 1sec recording, pretty sure, unless you're using a HRM. maybe not at all. it's been awhile since I've seen one.
    And it's accuracy(Edge25) is measured in miles, not in ft.

    Automatic recording only makes sense when you have a very good reception and accurate position.
    The Edges (all) don't have that, because of the microscopic build in antenna, but the 20 and 25 were the worst ever.
    Belgian beer and Scotch whisky.

  77. #77
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by thasingletrackmastah View Post
    And it's accuracy(Edge25) is measured in miles, not in ft.

    Automatic recording only makes sense when you have a very good reception and accurate position.
    The Edges (all) don't have that, because of the microscopic build in antenna, but the 20 and 25 were the worst ever.
    lol. yeah, antenna size is part of it. and is part of why many phones produce crap locations when they have to rely 100% on the GPS (no cell tower triangulation to augment poor gps reception).

    but I honestly think there's something specific about "smart" recording because comparing recording algorithms on the SAME device generates some pretty major differences in accuracy.

    There was a time when Garmin advertised the antenna their devices used the way they used to advertise the exact brand/model of GPS processor they used. Neither of which they do anymore. Nor does any cell phone manufacturer I'm aware of.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: thasingletrackmastah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    439
    Well yes, Garmin stopped mentioning the actual gps reciever, after they where forced to abbandon the SirfStar III. Something with patents held by Broadcom.
    They had to revert to Mediatek recievers, which were inferior to the Sirfstar III.
    They masked that by calling it a highly sensitive gps reciever.
    It took some (many) years for other gps recievers to reach the performance of the Sirfstar III chipset.



    After that they never mentioned which gps chipset they use. Kind of convinient I guess.

    Nowdays gps recievers have overtaken the legendary Sirfstar III.
    Problem with most units is the antenna. In most mobile phones and cycling computers it is to small and put away, sometimes obscured by the touchscreen.
    Belgian beer and Scotch whisky.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    I have never used an Edge 25, but I knew a few riders who have and they were satisfied AFAIK. Apparently, Sam Hill is using one:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-c...roof-mega.html

    Personally, except for a very few rare instances, all the Garmins I've had going back to the 705 I got ~10 years ago had more than sufficient real time and recorded accuracy for my purposes and that's been using "smart" recording. Maybe a combo of being lucky and not being that fussy about it.

    And I'll just mention that technically, GPS or cell tower location is done by multilateration, not triangulation. Distances are measured, not angles.
    What, me worry?

  80. #80
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I have never used an Edge 25, but I knew a few riders who have and they were satisfied AFAIK. Apparently, Sam Hill is using one:
    He's not interested in speed (unless he's also running a speed sensor) or power.
    Elapsed time, time of day, HR are more likely to be on the display.

    Nino used one as well before he upgraded to a 130.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,990
    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    He's not interested in speed (unless he's also running a speed sensor) or power.
    Elapsed time, time of day, HR are more likely to be on the display.

    Nino used one as well before he upgraded to a 130.

    Why heart rate and not power?
    I brake for stinkbugs

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    3,097
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Why heart rate and not power?
    For me it's about energy management and active recovery. If I can keep my heart rate under a certain zone I feel fresher for the same average speed over the same distance.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,990
    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    For me it's about energy management and active recovery. If I can keep my heart rate under a certain zone I feel fresher for the same average speed over the same distance.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



    Me too but if I had power I'd use that instead, more accurate because it's not influenced by caffeine, weather, fatigue, etc.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    3,097
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Me too but if I had power I'd use that instead, more accurate because it's not influenced by caffeine, weather, fatigue, etc.
    Right but all those variables potentially impact my ability to put down power later. There is a marked difference in speed on later descents in rides where I actively manage heart rate on climbs and flats. If I get up over 180bpm, especially 190bpm, my ability to actively recover is shot.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  85. #85
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Why heart rate and not power?
    The 25 doesn't do power.

    Jared Graves uses power, from what I can remember from an article some years ago, he keeps it to 250W during liaisons so he can recover.
    Last edited by NordieBoy; 06-30-2019 at 10:00 PM.

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    I found trailforks very useful with my 530 .
    How much have you used it? Have you been driven insane by zoom reversion yet?

    I spent the last 8 years with an Edge 800, tolerating its various bugs/quirks and declining battery capacity, while I patiently reviewed new products features and reputations. Nothing gave me the confidence to move, but based on generally favorable perspectives from DCRM and others re the 530/830, and the baked-in Trailforks maps, I took the plunge on a 530 last week.

    Within 20 minutes on my first ride the unit had me raging mad. The map zoom level will not stay where you set it. Even with "auto zoom" disabled, the map spontaneously and inconsistently changes back to the 0.8 mile zoom setting, sometimes only seconds after I set it, other times a few minutes.

    My use case is pretty simple: ride a MTB while having a map showing on the GPS with my preferred zoom level. Garmin can't even get that right.

    This bug/issue was mentioned in comments to DCRM's review, and there is a thread on the Garmin forums about it. No remarks from Garmin, yet.

    I'm going to hope (perhaps pointlessly) that Garmin fixes this in a firmware rev. My old 800 also did this, but very infrequently, like every 10th ride at one point on the ride, and when zoom was manually reset it stayed. So I tolerated it. The current behavior of the 530 is insane . . . who can navigate trails when the zoom is 1cm = 0.8 miles??

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta2010 View Post
    No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post

    8. I wish I could see the map and current speed in one screen.
    This is possible on most/all Edge devices. To create a Speed window on the map page of a 530:

    From Map view, tap the OK/Select button once (which brings up a menu)
    Scroll down w/ arrow buttons to the Data Fields selection and hit OK/Select button

    From there you can select 0, 1 or 2 data fields to be shown on the map. You can pick any data you want (timer, speed, elevation, etc).

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daxdagr8t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    515
    If you have blue cross/blue shield they have 35% garmin right now. Must sign up for https://www.blue365deals.com/. Then the link is there.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jon123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,037
    Quote Originally Posted by InertiaMan View Post
    How much have you used it? Have you been driven insane by zoom reversion yet?

    I spent the last 8 years with an Edge 800, tolerating its various bugs/quirks and declining battery capacity, while I patiently reviewed new products features and reputations. Nothing gave me the confidence to move, but based on generally favorable perspectives from DCRM and others re the 530/830, and the baked-in Trailforks maps, I took the plunge on a 530 last week.

    Within 20 minutes on my first ride the unit had me raging mad. The map zoom level will not stay where you set it. Even with "auto zoom" disabled, the map spontaneously and inconsistently changes back to the 0.8 mile zoom setting, sometimes only seconds after I set it, other times a few minutes.

    My use case is pretty simple: ride a MTB while having a map showing on the GPS with my preferred zoom level. Garmin can't even get that right.

    This bug/issue was mentioned in comments to DCRM's review, and there is a thread on the Garmin forums about it. No remarks from Garmin, yet.

    I'm going to hope (perhaps pointlessly) that Garmin fixes this in a firmware rev. My old 800 also did this, but very infrequently, like every 10th ride at one point on the ride, and when zoom was manually reset it stayed. So I tolerated it. The current behavior of the 530 is insane . . . who can navigate trails when the zoom is 1cm = 0.8 miles??
    I couldnít agree more with all this.
    The auto zoom makes it virtually impossible to use Trailforks for navigating.
    The map is all over the place when the unit pauses and resumes during rides.
    I too hope this is resolved in the next firmware update. Itís a decent unit but if youíre like me and upgraded from a 520 for the mtb navigation feature then itís a big letdown.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    You guys are spot on. So far I've only had two issues with my 830. The first being that it has gone Full Garmin on me 3-4 times already, where it just doesn't want to upload my new activity. I've had to forget and re-pair both my phone and my home wifi several times and that tends to "fix" it. (The unit will still be paired with my phone and connected to my wifi network, it just won't upload anything unless I forget and re-pair.) It's not the end of the world and my 1000 and old 810 did the same thing but it's still pretty annoying.

    And yeah - as everyone has said the auto-zoom is absolutely flipping obnoxious. I don't often need maps, but I hit a new trail system last week and thought "oh, sweet, I can use my snazzy new trailforks integration". Holy balls the auto-zoom is ridiculous. Paired with the assault of deer flies and mosquitoes, I'm lucky I was riding solo because every time I needed to check the map I'd let out a 5 minute stream of profanity at the Garmin and the bugs.

    They really have to fix that, argh.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jon123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,037
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    You guys are spot on. So far I've only had two issues with my 830. The first being that it has gone Full Garmin on me 3-4 times already, where it just doesn't want to upload my new activity. I've had to forget and re-pair both my phone and my home wifi several times and that tends to "fix" it. (The unit will still be paired with my phone and connected to my wifi network, it just won't upload anything unless I forget and re-pair.)
    Do you mean the unit itself won't upload? Or when you go to look on Garmin Connect mobile it just spins?

    I have the latter issue (Garmin Connect). After a ride if I want to do or look at anything on Connect it will often just spin.

    I have to close the app (not sign out, just close it) and then re-launch and then it's perfect. It syncs right up after relaunching. So not a big deal - but annoying in 2019.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    So I picked up a 830 and 530.
    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Got mine last week and it's acting wonky. doubling the mileage and giving crappy gps data. I'll post up a review in the next week or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    I'm slowly getting my 830 to work as I hoped. However, trailforks on the 830 isn't great. It's hard to see or understand the trails unless you zoom in a lot. IMO, an iphone mounted on the bars would be far superior and more useful than the Edge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I got the 830 on Monday.
    You guys with the 830 been fairly satisfied with the 830 so far? Aside from the few quirks you've mentioned.

    Your screen still responsive enough that you can actually use it when necessary. Buttons work when you press them? Uploading aside, I get that it's a quirk. Live track, I personally couldn't care less.

    I guess the main question is, is it reliable? Return policies aren't enticing and I don't need a $400 store credit to these online retailers and I don't want to warranty it via Garmin for a unit Garmin finds to be flawless.

    @Seventh-777, you have provided recent input and you seem pretty happy overall?

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    You guys with the 830 been fairly satisfied with the 830 so far? Aside from the few quirks you've mentioned.
    I've been riding off-road with my 830 over the last week and a half and have never had a worse performing GPS in my life. I've had next to zero issues with anything else but the GPS track is laughable at best. I'm using every second recording and GPS+GLONASS - the exact same as my old 820 which ironically had a great GPS track but terrible performance otherwise. It won't even get close enough on most sections of singletrack to pick up strava segments

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    I've been riding off-road with my 830 over the last week and a half and have never had a worse performing GPS in my life. I've had next to zero issues with anything else but the GPS track is laughable at best. I'm using every second recording and GPS+GLONASS - the exact same as my old 820 which ironically had a great GPS track but terrible performance otherwise. It won't even get close enough on most sections of singletrack to pick up strava segments
    Am I to understand that in order to pick up any data from Strava during the ride, the phone has to have a decent cell connection and as well the BT connection from phone to Garmin needs to be functioning. Possibly one or both of those functions are sketchy while in the wooded areas you ride ?

    As well, ALL GPS units can have lousy track recording in wooded areas. It's the nature of the weak GPS signal in general that has trouble being received in foliage (or canyons, urban areas, etc...). This is why many folks use speed sensors when riding trails, to get a better track of the course.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    I've been riding off-road with my 830 over the last week and a half and have never had a worse performing GPS in my life. I've had next to zero issues with anything else but the GPS track is laughable at best. I'm using every second recording and GPS+GLONASS - the exact same as my old 820 which ironically had a great GPS track but terrible performance otherwise. It won't even get close enough on most sections of singletrack to pick up strava segments
    I assume you are comparing the 830 track to your common ride locations that you used the 820 on? And you can duplicate the errors on the same trails?

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    @Seventh-777, you have provided recent input and you seem pretty happy overall?
    Yeah, overall I'm happy with it. It's a Garmin so it has it's quirks and hiccups but overall it's been pretty positive. I haven't had any GPS fidelity issues, it tracks just as well as my old 810/820 did and my 1000 does. I use a speed sensor on everything.

    Other than the obnoxious map zoom and having to re-pair it with my wifi/phone a few times, the only thing that's gone "wrong" is that the incident detection has gone off on me and wouldn't respond to my cancel screen taps.

    All in all I'd say it's 7/10. There are some things I'd like it to do better and some things it's missing but overall it's such a massive improvement from the 820 I really can't complain. It's way better than I thought it would be, I figured I'd have a Wahoo on my stem after a week.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I've been using a Garmin running watch since 2011 I think. For the most part it's been great but does not have features that today's devices have. It's not bluetooth or wireless.

    Once in a great while my content won't upload to Garmin (delayed), but does usually eventually upload if I force it to a few times. Other than that, it tracks my route and gives me data. When I trained a lot I lived by the data screens. Now it's useful for me to see on the computer after it's been uploaded.
    I suspect I'll treat the bike computer similarly. A glimpse of the screen from time to time but not live by it while riding.
    If the MTB metrics are worth their weight, that would be neat to see. The grit/flow functions probably are the most intriguing features to me. Perhaps the climb function. Seems best suited for those who travel often and have no idea how much further a hill climb is -to ride your local trails you already know how long the climb will be.
    Seems silly it's a MTB metric only. I'd like to see how long a hill is when I'm road riding (when I used to road ride).

    Anyway. I think I've found my source -Crutchfield. 60 return policy, no questions. Then if it doesn't track me or the screen isn't responsive or buttons don't work or if the battery lasts only several hours or whatever else the internet has to say, I can return it.

    Does anybody know if one can upload 2 identical activities. My Garmin watch and bike computer..... Strava no longer accepts duplicate activities. It would be good to compare my 2 GPS tracks from Garmin Devices. My watch currently shorts me most of the time relative to my wired bike computer and Strava. Garmin can be as much as 1/4 mile off of what the bike computer and Strava report.

  98. #98
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    IU think the climb thing works on the road too...

    for me as my 1000 was getting a bit flaky, any "important" (OK it was an excuse I just wanted to see what they both said, maaybe pick the better one...) rides, i'd use my 645 as well, but then I had to make sure not stop the 645 and check the 1000 uploaded OK, then stop and discard the 645 ride, as if I just stopped it, it would eventually time out and auto upload and i'd get 2 rides. Possibly becasue the 1000 recorded road or mtb ride, but the 645 recorded as "cycling" maybe?
    All the gear and no idea.

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I assume you are comparing the 830 track to your common ride locations that you used the 820 on? And you can duplicate the errors on the same trails?
    Yes my comparison is on the exact same trail using an 830 this week vs an 820 10 days ago. The track is pretty bad in most every place with the 830 but especially comical in exactly the same places every ride.

    Also for what it's worth I'm using a speed sensor to try and smooth the speed fluctuations which has worked great for years on my 820 so I can't assume it's causing any issues on the 830.

    The attached screenshots are a sample of the difference between the 820 and 830 with the red lined one being the 820
    In many places it's a little more of an "offset" than an outright track error but the offset is 3 or 4 tenths of a mile at least at times. The example shown in the images continues all the way to where I parked which is another mile or two down the trail and keeps the exact same offset. I know folks were having issues with GPS+GALILEO but this is with GPS+GLONASS like I always used on my 820
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-screen-shot-2019-07-16-10.11.25-am.jpg  

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-screen-shot-2019-07-16-10.11.16-am.jpg  


  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I've seen many offset errors like you report with my watch. Sometimes it's only for a while then it sorts itself out. For instance, I am starting a ride/run in the backyard of some however owner 1/4 mile away but finish at the trailhead. The track is correct, following what would be curves in a trail, just not displayed OVER the trail.

    I would always attribute that to not having enough satellites locked in with accuracy enough to get my location very well. Like I mention though, it would eventually pick up properly.

    Thanks for showing your example.

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post

    I would always attribute that to not having enough satellites locked in with accuracy enough to get my location very well. Like I mention though, it would eventually pick up properly.

    Thanks for showing your example.
    Funny thing is I set up a data screen that purely shows GPS signal strength and accuracy and watched it as an experiment to see if I could tell what was going on and it stayed dead nuts on 5 bars of strength and 9' accuracy (3 meters) each and every ride without fail. I definitely have tracks that are significantly over 18' apart on the same trail
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-screen-shot-2019-07-17-11.57.31-am.jpg  


  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Interesting....

    I remember one of my running routes would always miss me in one area, and routinely miss me in another. I figured in those spots I was behind a mountain just enough to block a strong enough signal. There is a pedestrian bridge over a river and many time it has me cutting off the trail too soon, and swimming across the river. The other place that wasn't AS common is a tight and twisty section right along side the mountain, easily assumed to be hidden from adequate satellite coverage.

    For the most part my 405 watch tracks well, only occasional errors as dramatic as you posted here.

  103. #103
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Drift and accuracy can be a little suspect between devices.
    This is a 2016 MTB race with tree cover.
    Some were obviously using their phones...
    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-screenshot-2019-07-18-08.13.11.png

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    You guys with the 830 been fairly satisfied with the 830 so far? Aside from the few quirks you've mentioned.

    Your screen still responsive enough that you can actually use it when necessary. Buttons work when you press them? Uploading aside, I get that it's a quirk. Live track, I personally couldn't care less.

    I guess the main question is, is it reliable? Return policies aren't enticing and I don't need a $400 store credit to these online retailers and I don't want to warranty it via Garmin for a unit Garmin finds to be flawless.

    @Seventh-777, you have provided recent input and you seem pretty happy overall?
    I've given up on my Garmin for MTB riding. The only reason I don't sell it is because of the rear radar integration, I like knowing when a car is coming up behind me.

    I've had two times now when I was going for a PR in Strava and the Garmin just stopped recording my ride so I wasn't able to see my time. I assume it thought I was off course and decided to stop. However, the main reason is the map is not useful for trail riding. Even if the trail shows up on the map, it's too cumbersome to navigate with a small screen and see where you're going. I actually rode with my iphone on my bars with a quadlock mount and it was way better for viewing maps as well as strava.

  105. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daxdagr8t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    515
    I have no problems navigating with the 530

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    ...I like knowing when a car is coming up behind me. ....
    Riding on the road I use an optical augmentation system for identifying and keeping track of vehicles approaching from the rear, a glasses mounted mirror. It's similar in function to the same devices employed cars, motorcycles, except it has a wider and steerable view.
    What, me worry?

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Riding on the road I use an optical augmentation system for identifying and keeping track of vehicles approaching from the rear, a glasses mounted mirror. It's similar in function to the same devices employed cars, motorcycles, except it has a wider and steerable view.


    ^ that works but I do like the idea of having a sensor like on the 530. A friend of mine who uses it says it works great, wish my 520 had that feature.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    ^ that works but I do like the idea of having a sensor like on the 530. A friend of mine who uses it says it works great, wish my 520 had that feature.
    I've been using a rearview radar with my old 820 for about a year now and I'll never go on another road ride without one. Priceless.. it works great 100% of the time

  109. #109
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmandoo View Post
    Am I to understand that in order to pick up any data from Strava during the ride, the phone has to have a decent cell connection and as well the BT connection from phone to Garmin needs to be functioning. Possibly one or both of those functions are sketchy while in the wooded areas you ride ?

    As well, ALL GPS units can have lousy track recording in wooded areas. It's the nature of the weak GPS signal in general that has trouble being received in foliage (or canyons, urban areas, etc...). This is why many folks use speed sensors when riding trails, to get a better track of the course.
    Pretty sure he was referring to segment matching when the ride is uploaded to strava after the fact. If the GPS data is bad, Strava won't match it up to the correct segments. I'm not sure what the threshold is for that, but there certainly is one.

    Foliage alone is generally not enough to notably screw up a modern GPS receiver. Modern receivers have pretty solid signal processing (in general) to filter out multipath (reflected signals) and other errors. Speed sensors don't do shiat for the track. The speed sensor does a couple of things. One, it smooths out and provides a higher resolution for on-device reporting of speed. Most don't care about that part. The other major thing it does is improve overall distance reporting. A device with a top notch accurate signal is going to under-report distance traveled because of the way aliasing shortcuts turns. But it works the other way, too. When the signal is inaccurate (or lost completely), the sensor will continue to record accurate distance. This is relevant for me because I occasionally do road rides up on the Blue Ridge Parkway where there are tunnels. Sometimes, my device loses signal completely, but usually that doesn't happen. It just gets REALLY inaccurate and the GPS track wanders all over the place until I exit the tunnel. The wheel sensor doesn't do anything for the GPS track. The speed and distance data are recorded in separate fields in the data file, and most programs nowadays will report the information saved there instead of calculating it based on the GPS positions of the track file. That wasn't always the case when wheel sensors were first introduced. And for that matter, when Garmin first introduced them, the information from them was only used on a trainer or when the GPS signal was lost completely. But that's not the case anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    Yes my comparison is on the exact same trail using an 830 this week vs an 820 10 days ago. The track is pretty bad in most every place with the 830 but especially comical in exactly the same places every ride.

    Also for what it's worth I'm using a speed sensor to try and smooth the speed fluctuations which has worked great for years on my 820 so I can't assume it's causing any issues on the 830.

    The attached screenshots are a sample of the difference between the 820 and 830 with the red lined one being the 820
    In many places it's a little more of an "offset" than an outright track error but the offset is 3 or 4 tenths of a mile at least at times. The example shown in the images continues all the way to where I parked which is another mile or two down the trail and keeps the exact same offset. I know folks were having issues with GPS+GALILEO but this is with GPS+GLONASS like I always used on my 820
    I'm not sure I'd call those errors a simple shift. Especially in your second screen shot. FWIW, it looks like you're riding in the same areas I do. Not sure if you were on vacation for those rides or if you moved since last updating your profile, but I know that stuff, and my Edge 520 records in those places dead-on-balls. I have seen occasional wonky recording from other people on various devices, though. And even though my own 520 has been good, and so has my wife's, I've seen other people's 520's record terrible tracks in the area, even when we were riding together. It's not "the foliage" that's screwing up your track.

    I did a little troubleshooting for one of them. It seems like a hard reset worked for him. Have you tried that yet? Otherwise, might be worth it to report it to Garmin, though some here have been reporting that Garmin's been less than helpful with such issues lately. I remember one thread where Garmin told him the whole "it loses accuracy in the forest" line of bullshit.

    If the inaccuracy is really erratic, it's possible that space weather might be your culprit. Certainly moreso than leaves on trees.

    https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/archive

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    ^ that works but I do like the idea of having a sensor like on the 530. A friend of mine who uses it says it works great, wish my 520 had that feature.
    Pretty sure the plain jane Edge 520 can handle the radar. It was added via a firmware update, iirc.

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    I've been using a rearview radar with my old 820 for about a year now and I'll never go on another road ride without one. Priceless.. it works great 100% of the time
    Same here. I am an admitted gadget fiend and total sucker for any and all kind of goofy tech shit, but the Varia is something else entirely. It's not a "cycling gadget", it's a brilliant piece of safety equipment that's perfectly executed. I evangelize that thing so often to my road buddies, I'm pretty sure a few of them bought one just because they were sick of hearing me rave about it.

    I don't ride a ton of road but I do a fair amount - I'm good for a couple of centuries and a few metrics every season. It's literally instant safety for the price of a decent helmet or a set of tires. I'll never ride road without one either, it's a straight up fantastic piece of gear that's almost as important as a good helmet if you ask me.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  111. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    If you think the Varia is great, try a helmet/glasses mounted mirror. You don't get just a beep or a light, you can actually see the traffic behind! You see what it is, how fast it's approaching, how many there are, which lanes they're in...it's friggin amazing...and utterly reliable.
    What, me worry?

  112. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    If you think the Varia is great, try a helmet/glasses mounted mirror. You don't get just a beep or a light, you can actually see the traffic behind! You see what it is, how fast it's approaching, how many there are, which lanes they're in...it's friggin amazing...and utterly reliable.
    For what it's worth the varia does show the relative speed of the passing car(s) by both color and real time movement of the target dots. It also shows as many dots as there are cars so multiple targets are easily seen coming. In 18 months it's never once missed even a single car in my case.. it simply works which is what's great about it for me.. plus it's not dangling off my face!

  113. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    For what it's worth the varia does show the relative speed of the passing car(s) by both color and real time movement of the target dots. It also shows as many dots as there are cars so multiple targets are easily seen coming. In 18 months it's never once missed even a single car in my case.. it simply works which is what's great about it for me.. plus it's not dangling off my face!
    This. Plus the Varia picks up cars way before I even see them when I'm looking backwards, let alone what I'd see in a tiny helmet mounted mirror. It's an apples and oranges comparison, really.

    All I can suggest is that anyone who rides a decent amount of road should pick one up. Amazon the thing, try it for a month, and if you think it sucks just send it back. I think it's fantastic, but to each their own.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  114. #114
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Hoping for nothing but good luck!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-garmin830mtb.jpg  


  115. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Well, so far so good.

    Of the features I'm using it seemed to work.

    I make a few setting changes out of the box as follows

    • Connected my phone
    • Started with Auto Brightens to ON then switched it OFF during the ride and to timeout at 15 seconds, but I'm not sure when the screen darkened during activity. Will need to test that out. I wanted it a tad brighter so I could see the screen a bit better.
    • Set data Recording to 1 second
    • Turned off tones (was in the office when setting up the device).
    • GPS mode left to default setting of GPS only.
    • Autopause on to my desired speed setting.



    My experience:
    It works. I do not have my Garmin and Strava account linked so I guess I won't be able to test out live links as it seems to require a linked account to Strava. Don't care about that too much anyway -only a few times have I been riding and hunting a PR without knowing start/end segments.
    It's taken a few tries at switching data screens on a ride and when auto paused. Swiping was easy and flawless. But I pressed the home button once and wasn't sure how to get back to the data screens and was nervous I'd end up 'stopping' a ride log if I pressed wrong buttons. Nothing bad happened and I got back no problem.
    I hit the lap button somehow but I don't know what I did to touch it. If there is screen control, I may have done that as I'm pretty certain I didn't press the physical lap button. I saw it display Lap 1 on the screen but not sure what I did.
    I was not using navigation, but is neat how it tells you the trail names as you're riding. Neat if your on unfamiliar trails I'm sure. I didn't quite understand why, during autopause, it defaults to the map screen though. Maybe that's what others have been complaining about. It does zoom the map out far during that screen too. Not sure why it feels like showing the map when I had the compass screen on while riding. It instantly goes back to the data screen (compass in my case) once movement has been detected.
    Swiping the screen while riding was flawless and I still have the protective cover on the screen as well.

    It was neat to see the elevation profile while riding. I couldn't tell where I am while riding. Probably is identified but my eyes can't see it that well.
    I purchased the MTB bundle (included the speed sensor) but did not install it. I rode tonight with my 2010 or 2011 405CX watch.
    The watch recorded 13.24 miles.
    The 830 recorded 13.17 miles. I did not double ride any trails.
    Watch recorded 1068 vertical gain
    The 830 recorded 1178 vertical gain
    I forgot to start Strava to compare.
    My Cateye Enduro 8 recorded 13.51 miles.
    The watch recorded a maximum speed of 22.9mph
    The 830 recorded a maximum speed of 24.3mph. That's a considerable margin, depending on the capture rate of the watch which I have no idea the time interval (not an option).

    From what I can tell, the overlay on the map is darn near identical between my two Garmin devices as far as accuracy, each overlaying the route very accurately.
    Both devices show same weather info (probably not a result of the device though), 100 degrees and 5mph wind.
    I could export both devices to Google early and see how they overlay too but I think there is an interpolation by Google that may alter the track anyway.

    I think the metrics are neat. Probably be over the novelty in a few rides though. I had 29 jumps recorded. I have to assume it's detecting SOMETHING to make it think that is happening. I don't know how many there really were that I'd consider a jump but the identified locations on the map seem accurately displayed, even the little things that could be considered a jump as tires to come off the ground. Considering my 405 watch shows a map overlay with no information, I can appreciate the coloring and metric data displayed on the map (fast/slow, jump, etc).

    I will eventually figure out what data screens I want to adjust.
    I have a few menu items I need to better understand so I know why they exist or what a more suitable settings is for me.

    So far, with just one ride I don't have anything to complain about.
    The screen is easy enough to read and if I had the eyes now I had 4.5 years ago the screen would be plenty large and useful.
    I don't know how much battery. Unboxed at 67% but had it plugged into my computer for an hour or less. I think it was 84% or 87%. At home it was 77% after an elapsed time of 1:55 (plus 25 minutes of stopping I think). So 10% or less for 2 hours of use.

    This got long and probably rambled a little. I'm tired but wanted to jot this down while it was fresh.
    If you have questions, let me know. Maybe I forgot something or didn't think it would have been useful. If I can't answer the question, it will be something I can try to work out by the next ride.

    It's late but I will go through the complaints of the thread to see if I can duplicate any. Without using live track, that's probably won't I can't help with. A co worker and her husband have Garmin devices. He is a MTB dude with a 520. They have never tested the accident detection thing on purpose, but she has had a few email that he has stopped. Apparently it sends notifications if you not tell it not too, even if you come to a stop (maybe it has to be a sudden stop), but his 520 seems to offer the option to cancel the distress call. I won't use that -nobody around me to bother to test out the feature so that will be turned off. I should consider a test for my out of town, or challenging rides, so somebody does at least know I may be dying.

    EDIT/UPDATE:
    Friends Android Strava (I too am Android) from our ride was 13.59. My Garmin watch seems to have been 'shorting' me based on Strava averages. The two devices last night adds to the confusion of which devices are most accurate, having 2 Garmin devices with 8 year difference in technology report a similar distance is a bit more realistic I think.
    Last edited by Forest Rider; 07-25-2019 at 08:42 AM.

  116. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    A little update from another ride.

    Today I imported a ride from a couple months ago so I could use navigation to guide me along the route I rode then. I'm not too familiar with the trail network and don't recall how I looped the various trails together.
    The navigation didn't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy.
    I got to a point not too far into the ride and the screen was informing me to make a u-turn. I didn't remember passing a turn, so I continued on ignoring the 'off course' and u-turn notice. I did then turn back 1/2 mile to check it out. GPS alerted me I was back on the course. There is sort of something in the area, so I adventured on the overgrown segment only to be alerted I'm off course, again.
    So....onward the way I had been going, the only way there is to go, and it eventually told me I was back on course.
    No idea what was tripping it up. I was told I was going the wrong way a couple times or told to u-turn. I wonder if the course had a hard time because a few bits were near another piece of the trail.
    Anyway, it was confusing. Other experiences were the inaccuracy or delay of the GPS. At one poing I was told to "continue right for 500ft. I about ventured to the parking lot, looking at my car at the end of the ride then I was told to turn around 400ft. I think it was trying to get me to go back to a trail I had already ridden that ties in here.

    Otherwise, it wasn't too bad, but I dislike how it took so far after an intersection it alerted me I have gone off course. Only bad if you are going fast and down a hill as you then need to pedal back up.


    A feature I wasn't too fond of -using navigation to guide me through, the climbing feature would pop up when I got on a hill. I sort of wanted to know where I was going, not see how far the hill continued. I can see the benefit I suppose.

    Next up is the speed sensor. Yeah, that wasn't accurate at all.
    Today Strava registered 7.09
    Garmin Speed sensor registered 6.93
    Garmin watch registered 7.25
    Yesterday there was a discrepancy of 0.07 miles between the two Garmin GPS devices I had. Today the speed sensor vs GPS was 0.32 off.

    With that said, I have no idea how the speed sensor was calibrating. The Automatic screen displays "Wheel Size Automatic ____mm" No number displayed.
    I removed the sensor from that bike to install on another bike. Save result. Looking at the manual setting, it's on 2096, after both bikes register the speed sensor. I do not believe the 2096 is the result but rather is the default entry before one would enter a manual number.

    Okay, so that's fine. GPS is inaccurate. Fair enough.
    Not so fast....

    My bike with the Cateye wired computer along with the GPS 830 reading is dang near spot on speed while coasting 10mph down my street.
    Switch to the speed sensor and the auto setting registers about 1/2mph too slow at 10 mph. Manually enter the speed sensor number that mataches my Cateye wheel size (that I did the wheel rollout years ago) and the two display the same speed at 10mph.

    Bottom line is, I don't think I can trust the wheel sensor in auto setting at all. It's apparently inaccurate in a straight line, on pavement in a wide open area. My device also never says that it is calibrating.

    And one last thing. The automatic zoom of the map is definitely annoying. During my use on the trail, trying to figure out where the heck I was, I can't see the screen at far zoom, which it defaults to when you stop. Not a grip really, just unfortunate that it's so difficult to use.

    I won't be taking the time this evening to do a wheel rollout to calibrate the sensor, I'll leave it at home for tomorrows ride. I'm going to be using the navigation for a ride tomorrow, and hope I remember enough about a trail I have only ridden once that I don't absolutely rely.

    The data screens are nice though. I enjoy the customization. Still have some tweaking to go through but that will come along to suit my liking soon enough.

  117. #117
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Are you running firmware version 3.55? It's a beta version and fixes a lot of issues. Get it here:

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...-now-available


    Changes made from version 3.50 to 3.55:

    Made visual improvements to ClimbPro, including more granular coloring on the ClimbPro chart and the ability to preview future climbs.
    Made ClimbPro a separate screen in the timer loop, so the elevation screen is still available during a climb.
    Fixed issues with ClimbPro that caused the climb or list screens to display improperly.
    Added new ClimbPro messages to activity FIT files.
    Changed the Incident Detection setting to be set for each activity profile, and defaulted the setting to OFF for Mountain and E-Mountain profiles where false positives can be more likely due to terrain and riding style.
    Fixed an issue where Incident Detection could get re-enabled if the user has emergency contacts listed in Garmin Connect.
    Fixed an issue where prompts could appear over the Incident Detection alert, so it could not be acknowledged by the user.
    Added the ability to disable the ForkSight page that appears when you stop during a Mountain activity.
    Added the ability to turn off Grit, Flow, and Jump recording in FIT files for Mountain and E-Mountain activity profiles.
    Added the ability to turn off jump alerts in Mountain and E-Mountain activity profiles. Jumps will still be recorded in the FIT file but you will not be alerted during your ride.
    Improved the MTB Navigation interface to utilize the new Riding Area and parking lot data available in the 2019.10 Trailforks map.
    Fixed an issue where the map zoom and orientation were not properly returning to their original values after the ForkSight page was displayed in a Mountain activity.
    Fixed some map drawing issues with the latest 2019.10 Trailforks maps.
    Started using 7-day GPS ephemeris data instead of 3-day data, to improve positioning when new ephemeris data is not available.
    Added protections against injecting bad GPS ephemeris data that could come from older versions of Garmin Express.
    Fixed issues with popularity routing.
    Fixed an issue that could cause the device to generate large activity files and freeze during navigation.
    Fixed an issue where the battery would not charge to 100%.
    Increased the minimum sharp bend warning speed to 15mph.
    Fixed an issue causing erroneous FTP values.
    Modified the FTP test to lap at the end instead of stopping the timer so the ride will continue to record when the test completes.
    Fixed incorrect automatic gear selection for Di2 shifters.
    Fixed an issue where Di2 battery empty was improperly reported as eBike battery empty.
    Fixed issues with the cycling dynamics page.
    Added the ability to choose between two different radar tones.
    Fixed a display issue with the power zone chart.
    Fixed some display issues with the lap summary data screen.
    Improved the interface for editing data fields on the map screen.
    Added extra layout options to the map page to support a larger elevation profile.
    Made improvements to the elevation profile for segments embedded in a course.
    Fixed an issue where Connect IQ data fields could only be added to the current activity profile.
    Implemented better user feedback to convey the LiveTrack status.
    Improved overall device stability.
    What, me worry?

  118. #118
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    Can't say I use the navigation function so can't comment on that.
    But for the speed sensors, yeah I have a couple and they are...well they're something. I just don't bother using them, I find the GPS is close enough for me.

    I gave up on the 530, sorry I know everyone says touch screens are silly, but after 5 years with a 1000, while not perfect wasn't bad. but the 530 was just frustrating, I weas ready to hit it with a hammer. The setup, just doing anything more than start/stop, Ugh. Gave to the GF and bought an 830...ah heaven. Super easy to setup and generally fiddle with and just an all round pleasant experince. So far happy with it.
    All the gear and no idea.

  119. #119
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Are you running firmware version 3.55? It's a beta version and fixes a lot of issues. Get it here:

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...-now-available


    Changes made from version 3.50 to 3.55:
    ......
    Thanks for that. I'll install tonight or tomorrow.
    Some of the features seem nice to utilize.



    To those interested in the touch screen:
    After a few days of use, I'd say the responsiveness of the 830 is close to that of a touchscreen you'd find on a phone or otherwise.

    When browsing menus, I've accidentally selected a menu item and didn't know I touched the screen. The only problem I've found with the screen is the lower left corner has the X symbol to cancel the section, or an arrow to return to a previous screen. It almost feels like the touch sensor zone isn't aligned with the button. It is, but I miss that button the most, moving my touch point just a little activates that button.

    The screen easily switches between screens when swiping while I'm riding.

  120. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    This is probably my last Edge 830 update before I leave.


    • As previously mentioned I think the touch screen is about as good as it gets.

    One thing I don't quite like -while back light has been switched back to dim mode, you can tap it to brighten the screen (wake it up basically). However that will take you to a home screen that you have to clear before being able to see your data screen. Alternately you can swipe one direction then back. Would be nice if a tap didn't default to the home screen.
    The less obtrusive option is to press and hold for a moment. This requires only the one long-press, however it does require you to hold the screen for a longer period of time than either of the other two options that work. Sometimes presents a challenge if you're being bounced around.
    I have backlight set to 100% bright and to dim after 30 seconds.



    • Battery life seems to be pretty good, but do not have a comparison model to really make that an accurate statement.

    I've had 2 rides lasting just around 3.5 hours, including about 15 minutes of stopping time. Battery drains around 15% with normal usage. The first of the 2 rides I had navigation running. I do not recall the battery usage exactly but it was similar.



    • Today I accidentally tested the AutoPause based on a speed setting. I thought it was acting up, however I checked the menu and I have it set to a speed of 1.8. I have had my watch set on AutoPause at 2.2 for years and years. I wonder if I had the 830 set the same, or if it was previously on "when stopped" (I believe it was).


    Today it would AutoPause on 4 separate trails. I wasn't going quite that slow as far as I could tell, however that's what happened. It did seem to be a bit inconsistent. My final bit of ride was climbing up a hill that takes about 15 minutes (when mile 24 out of 26) and I was in the 50t creeping along about as slow as possible (a 4.1 avg/mph over nearly a mile and it never AutoPaused, whereas previous indications were showing Pause while hovering over 2mph.

    Previous rides seem to work properly so chaulk this one up to user error, but also take note that the slow speed didn't seem to remain consistent.


    • The ability to create custom profiles is nice. It allows the user to have custom screens, custom GPS settings and a few other little things that may be useful.




    • Navigation on trails is not as trustworthy as one would prefer.

    The first bout with navigation was a local trail that I'm not too familiar with so I asked Garmin go guide me along a previous route (exported Garmin activity to import to the Edge 830).
    There was an area that was adamant I turn around despite there not being any trails to exit to. Later it told me to turn when it wasn't time.....I did have to double back to that area, but it was telling me prematurely. I figured it was confused and didn't understand that I was still on the "going this way" part of the route. It did get me back to where I needed to be, but that was because of my familiarity, if even slightly familiar.

    Next was when I imported a 30 mile ride on a trail I've ridden exactly once out of town. It was doing a good job. I knew where I was and where I needed to go as it's more or less impossible to mess up. I hadn't yet arrived at the only turnoff there is and I was asked to turn around. I listened thinking I did miss the turn. I went back a couple hundred feet and realized nope, it's not this direction. Back to where I figured it should be then I saw it. Garmin didn't tell me to turn.
    I followed this trail for the 3 miles that it is, with no options to turn off of it. The entire time the display indicated I should turn around.
    I eventually worked my way along another trail (rightfully so) and it got on track. Pretty much the rest of the ride was pretty good though. I had a good idea where to go except for one spot. Garmin navigated me alright through those questionable areas but I am glad I was sure of the direction once I got onto that connection.

    I like how it will pick up that you're back on track. I skipped an area and when Garmin realized I was back on track it navigated me properly. It also alerted me at 2 locations that I passed the intersection as I was unsure if I should turn or not -I proceeded slowly beyond the intersection awaiting a beep and it finally happened. I still feel it's too delayed to alert after passing the turn.

    I also like how when I started my ride, I started it from where the imported ride was mile 16. It knew how to get me going -I was unsure if I would need to ride the track identically. I'm glad at least I can use an old ride imported with at least a segment or an area that I'm unsure about.

    By now I think we all know the navigation tool is just that, a tool. Carry a map or use other systems if you are in an unfamiliar area and Garmin is directing you to a place you feel may be an error. At least it will limit the amount of times you dig into your pack for your phone.



    • So far I have not seen any major variance on the trails where my recorded path doesn't mostly line up with the map. I'm sure it can and will happen as my current (old) GPS Watch does mis-track from time to time, depending on the area. I will assume that bit of technology will be reliable.





    • Next up, and my last subject is mileage tracking on the trails.

    Note, I have not used this on a road at all to date, 10 days and 7 rides.
    I've switched GPS modes as a trial. I really do not know the different between GPS/GPS+GLONASS/GPS+GALILEO.

    Because of accuracy issues here in town I switched it to GLONASS for a place that seems to be known for difficult signal. Signal seems to be fine but it doesn't calculate elevation very reliability.

    When using Strava for Android (Samsung) as a baseline the Edge 830 shorted me 7.4%. Compared to the same ride with my 405CX watch that is 9 years old which shorted me (compared to Strava) only 1% (recorded with both devices the same ride).

    Today I rode the same place but with a slight change in order of how I rode the trails, I was shorted by 7.6% while using GALILEO. The 405CX watch shorted me only 0.75% against Strava. I used Strava as a baseline as that seems to be a pretty consistent across all my rides (most are compared to a Cateye Enduro8 wired computer with wheel rollout centimeter input).
    Strava recorded ~27 miles while Garmin recorded ~25 miles.

    With that said, I will definitely need to get the wheel sensor calibrated for the bike and I know know I will need a 2nd sensor for the 2nd bike. While playing with the speed sensor on my street, GPS mode worked more accurately compared to my CatEye speed at 10mph than the wheel sensor did. Therefore, I'm not convinced using Auto Calibration will get me better results than using GPS only.
    If 7% accuracy is okay for you, that's fine. I'm really not okay with it, especially since I already have a device that I know can be more reliable than 7% accuracy.



    Apologies for the lengthy writeup. Didn't plan it but things to share kept popping up.

  121. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    ^ what rev of firmware are you on? 3.57 is the latest beta version.
    What, me worry?

  122. #122
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    When using Strava for Android (Samsung) as a baseline the Edge 830 shorted me 7.4%. Compared to the same ride with my 405CX watch that is 9 years old which shorted me (compared to Strava) only 1% (recorded with both devices the same ride).

    Today I rode the same place but with a slight change in order of how I rode the trails, I was shorted by 7.6% while using GALILEO. The 405CX watch shorted me only 0.75% against Strava. I used Strava as a baseline as that seems to be a pretty consistent across all my rides (most are compared to a Cateye Enduro8 wired computer with wheel rollout centimeter input).
    Strava recorded ~27 miles while Garmin recorded ~25 miles.

    With that said, I will definitely need to get the wheel sensor calibrated for the bike and I know know I will need a 2nd sensor for the 2nd bike. While playing with the speed sensor on my street, GPS mode worked more accurately compared to my CatEye speed at 10mph than the wheel sensor did. Therefore, I'm not convinced using Auto Calibration will get me better results than using GPS only.
    If 7% accuracy is okay for you, that's fine. I'm really not okay with it, especially since I already have a device that I know can be more reliable than 7% accuracy.


    I don't understand what you mean by using strava as a baseline, isn't strava just an app? Do you mean that you think your phone is more accurate than the garmin?
    I brake for stinkbugs

  123. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^ what rev of firmware are you on? 3.57 is the latest beta version.
    I am still on 3.5 -haven't yet installed the Beta.



    Yes J.B. I am suggesting the Strava app for Android carries greater accuracy than the Garmins do.

    If nothing else, it appears to be the most consistent. Even compared to my wheel sensor Cateye, Strava is closer than the Garmin data.

    I was out setting up a wheel sensor for the Garmin this afternoon. I will have a few test rides with the sensor at the value that seems adequate to see if I can get my devices aligned more closely than they are now.

    I calibrated it based on mile marker posts along our local trail system. Gotta start someplace.

    I came up with 3 values.
    Wheel rollout was in-between what the automatic calibration and what I found by spanning mile posts.

  124. #124
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    13,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I am still on 3.5 -haven't yet installed the Beta.



    Yes J.B. I am suggesting the Strava app for Android carries greater accuracy than the Garmins do.

    If nothing else, it appears to be the most consistent. Even compared to my wheel sensor Cateye, Strava is closer than the Garmin data.

    I was out setting up a wheel sensor for the Garmin this afternoon. I will have a few test rides with the sensor at the value that seems adequate to see if I can get my devices aligned more closely than they are now.

    I calibrated it based on mile marker posts along our local trail system. Gotta start someplace.

    I came up with 3 values.
    Wheel rollout was in-between what the automatic calibration and what I found by spanning mile posts.


    I still don't understand, I know your phone is running the strava app but your phone, not strava is what's calculating mileage, distance, etc., it's the device, not strava the determines accuracy. At least that's the way I understand it, maybe a pro tech-geek can chime in and set me straight.

    Mile post markers aren't always accurate but I note them on road rides and my Garmin 520 clocks them within 1/100 mile pretty much every time. No wheel sensor.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  125. #125
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I am still on 3.5 -haven't yet installed the Beta.



    Yes J.B. I am suggesting the Strava app for Android carries greater accuracy than the Garmins do.

    If nothing else, it appears to be the most consistent. Even compared to my wheel sensor Cateye, Strava is closer than the Garmin data.

    I was out setting up a wheel sensor for the Garmin this afternoon. I will have a few test rides with the sensor at the value that seems adequate to see if I can get my devices aligned more closely than they are now.

    I calibrated it based on mile marker posts along our local trail system. Gotta start someplace.

    I came up with 3 values.
    Wheel rollout was in-between what the automatic calibration and what I found by spanning mile posts.
    So Strava has this:

    https://labs.strava.com/slide/

    Not that it always does this. You have to process each file individually if you want to do this. It's not that the raw data is any better than Garmin's. This tool is basically just throwing out the raw data and using the crowdsourced heatmap data to "fix" your crappy cell phone GPS data. Regularly, Strava does heavy processing, but look at a map of the track and it's not hard to see how INaccurate phone GPSes are. Clever, but it's important to understand the processing that happens with Strava that simply isn't possible with a self-contained computer.

    It's also worth noting that an accurate GPS will ALWAYS measure distances short. The disparity will become larger the faster you go, the more turns you make, and the tighter those turns are. An INaccurate GPS might measure distances accurately, but the individual positions won't be accurate. You'll get outliers that add distance back. You'll get "wander" that adds distance you didn't do. It's going to cut big stuff off (not just a little bit off of every corner).

    Look at this ride I did this afternoon with a friend. My track is from a Garmin Edge 520 with a wheel sensor and is the black one. My friend recorded his on his iphone with the app and his track is blue (close to the color of the streams). I recorded as 13.13mi and he recorded 12.57mi. His iphone recorded an absolute trash track. Not saying mine is perfect, but it's pretty darn close. And this is Pisgah with deep valleys, thick tree cover, and rain. Sure, without the wheel sensor, I'd have recorded less distance (maybe less than my friend, maybe not). But the wheel sensor does nothing for the actual position data. There's no question here that the position data from my Garmin is better.

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-black_sycamore_gps_accuracy.png

  126. #126
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I still don't understand, I know your phone is running the strava app but your phone, not strava is what's calculating mileage, distance, etc., it's the device, not strava the determines accuracy. At least that's the way I understand it, maybe a pro tech-geek can chime in and set me straight.

    Mile post markers aren't always accurate but I note them on road rides and my Garmin 520 clocks them within 1/100 mile pretty much every time. No wheel sensor.
    The phone (hardware) feeds Strava the raw GPS data. Strava massages the data and calculates everything. Some GPS apps use the raw phone GPS data. Strava processes more than most, and if you see my post above, you'll see you still get crap out of it sometimes.

    Mile markers on the road are a totally different animal compared to mile markers on the trail. I've never seen trail mile markers that are even halfway accurate before. But even on the road with accurate mile markers, that's not going to illustrate the difference between a wheel sensor and no. Most west coast riders don't have a clue how the trail layout itself makes a difference. As I said in my last post, the faster you go, the more turns you have, and the tighter those turns are, the bigger the disparity between distances reported from a wheel sensor and GPS-only computer.

    It's easy enough to see without any sort of analysis if you compare climbing segments of a trail where you're going barely over walking speed to downhill segments where you're going 10-20mph (or more) and ripping through twisty trails. Repeat those segments and see how well the tracks match with each other. On the slow, climby segments, they'll match pretty closely. But on the fast downhills, you'll see some separation.

    I don't run a wheel sensor on my road bike, either. But I consider it essential on my mtb.

  127. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    This. Plus the Varia picks up cars way before I even see them when I'm looking backwards, let alone what I'd see in a tiny helmet mounted mirror. It's an apples and oranges comparison, really.

    All I can suggest is that anyone who rides a decent amount of road should pick one up. Amazon the thing, try it for a month, and if you think it sucks just send it back. I think it's fantastic, but to each their own.
    I can't comment on the Varia as I do not own one, nor do I even yet have a Garmin Edge cyclometer, but I do use my VivoActive HR to record my rides. While I'd be interested in trying out a package that includes a Varia I feel that even so I'd still ride with a mirror for the following reasons, based upon my riding experiences over the last 30+ years.

    With a cycling mirror I've been able to directly see:

    * A car drifting into the bike lane behind me. Thus, I moved over to the edge of the road to provide more room.
    * Similarly, I was able to see another vehicle wandering into and out of the bike lane, and noticed the driver's head looking downward (texting?). In this case, I fortunately ditched it up onto the sidewalk, as the vehicle continued to drive right through the bike lane. I feel I would have been struck by that vehicle if I was still in the lane.
    * A vehicle slowed as it was overtaking me, and I saw a passenger leaning out the passenger window with something in hand. I quickly moved over and stopped, before some object was thrown in my direction.
    * One vehicle choosing to pass another vehicle, both traveling in the same direction as I. This gave me a heads' up and I moved closer to the shoulder to provide ample passing space.
    * An ambulance approaching with flashing lights. I pulled to the side of the road, before any siren or rumbler was required to signal its approach.
    * Numerous times, I've noticed my riding partners to the rear slowing/stopping due to various reasons. I immediately slow/stop, otherwise who knows how long before I would have noticed they had dropped.
    * While "leading" at the front of a large group ride, I saw the pack make a turn several blocks behind me. I obviously was off-course, and without noticing this missed turn, I would have continued further on before wondering where everyone else was.
    * I appreciate being able to turn my head in any direction in order to capture a wide view of the area behind me. This has been helpful to track vehicles through turns/corners or even dogs who have decided it'd be fun to chase me.

    These are just examples of what I have observed, with a mirror (helmet or glasses mount), without requiring that I turn to face the rear. Again, I'm not saying the Varia isn't a wonderful tool, but that I feel a mirror offers capabilities that the Varia can't match. Together, perhaps they'd compliment one another, but I don't feel the Varia replaces a mirror.

    My three cents' worth.

  128. #128
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Seventh-777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    497
    I don't see anyone saying that the Varia replaces a mirror. It's just the strawman argument that people who don't like the Varia for some odd reason come up with.

    The Varia will alert you to an approaching car from a damn long way away. Their official distance is 140 meters, but I have had it notify me from much further out than that. At that range, an approaching car is smaller than the head of a pin in a mirror attached to your glasses.

    There's no reason that you can't just run both but if it's Varia or mirror, after cycling over 20,000 miles with the Varia - dozens of centuries, metrics, gravel rides, commutes, you name it - the Varia is the single best cycling purchase I've ever made by a long shot. Take from that what you will.

    Try the thing out, it's under $200 and you can grab one on Amazon any time and return it if you think it's snake oil. I ride a LOT, and in my opinion it is absolutely fantastic.
    Trail: Scalpel-Si / Sherpa / Farley EX
    Gravity: Nomad / Wilson
    Road: Stigmata / Slate

    My MTB Videos

  129. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation: thasingletrackmastah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    439
    And version 4.10 is now available.
    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...-now-available

    Changes made from version 3.50 to 4.10:
    Made visual improvements to ClimbPro, including more granular coloring on the ClimbPro chart and the ability to preview future climbs.
    Made ClimbPro a separate screen in the timer loop, so the elevation screen is still available during a climb.
    Fixed issues with ClimbPro that caused the climb or list screens to display improperly.
    Added new ClimbPro messages to activity FIT files.
    Changed the Incident Detection setting to be set for each activity profile, and defaulted the setting to OFF for Mountain and E-Mountain profiles where false positives can be more likely due to terrain and riding style.
    Fixed an issue where Incident Detection could get re-enabled if the user has emergency contacts listed in Garmin Connect.
    Fixed an issue where prompts could appear over the Incident Detection alert, so it could not be acknowledged by the user.
    Added the ability to disable the ForkSight page that appears when you stop during a Mountain activity.
    Added the ability to turn off Grit, Flow, and Jump recording in FIT files for Mountain and E-Mountain activity profiles.
    Added the ability to turn off jump alerts in Mountain and E-Mountain activity profiles. Jumps will still be recorded in the FIT file but you will not be alerted during your ride.
    Improved the MTB Navigation interface to utilize the new Riding Area and parking lot data available in the 2019.10 Trailforks map.
    Fixed an issue where the map zoom and orientation were not properly returning to their original values after the ForkSight page was displayed in a Mountain activity.
    Fixed some map drawing issues with the latest 2019.10 Trailforks maps.
    Started using 7-day GPS ephemeris data instead of 3-day data, to improve positioning when new ephemeris data is not available.
    Added protections against injecting bad GPS ephemeris data that could come from older versions of Garmin Express.
    Fixed issues with popularity routing.
    Fixed an issue that could cause the device to generate large activity files and freeze during navigation.
    Fixed an issue where the battery would not charge to 100%.
    Increased the minimum sharp bend warning speed to 15mph.
    Fixed an issue causing erroneous FTP values.
    Modified the FTP test to lap at the end instead of stopping the timer so the ride will continue to record when the test completes.
    Fixed incorrect automatic gear selection for Di2 shifters.
    Fixed an issue where Di2 battery empty was improperly reported as eBike battery empty.
    Fixed issues with the cycling dynamics page.
    Added the ability to choose between two different radar tones.
    Fixed a display issue with the power zone chart.
    Fixed some display issues with the lap summary data screen.
    Improved the interface for editing data fields on the map screen.
    Added extra layout options to the map page to support a larger elevation profile.
    Made improvements to the elevation profile for segments embedded in a course.
    Fixed an issue where Connect IQ data fields could only be added to the current activity profile.
    Improved LiveTrack reliability and added better user feedback to convey the LiveTrack status.
    Improved overall device stability.
    Belgian beer and Scotch whisky.

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RSAmerica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    374
    Quote Originally Posted by thasingletrackmastah View Post
    And version 4.10 is now available.
    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...-now-available

    Changes made from version 3.50 to 4.10:
    Well the 4.10 software is the usual Garmin update. Fixes some stuff and F-up other stuff. Garmin use us as their software QC team.

  131. #131
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bbbr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    273
    which is why I'm waiting to make the jump from my 810
    Alea Jacta Est

  132. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by RSAmerica View Post
    Well the 4.10 software is the usual Garmin update. Fixes some stuff and F-up other stuff. Garmin use us as their software QC team.
    Uh oh. I haven't seen what it messed up. What should I keep my eye open for on my next ride?

  133. #133
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    With the 820 it took a couple of years of updates before it got kinda OK. I'm following the progress on the 830. Garmin has gotten way more forthcoming in listing what's changed in their updates. It used to be they'd only list added features and not cop to having had to fix bugs. That's a good sign, IMO. They were also totally hands-off in the Garmin forums, not overtly participating at all. Now they seem to be more actively participating. That's another good thing.
    What, me worry?

  134. #134
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    'I'm just glad they made it so you could turn off all the mtb features. Didn't mind them being there at the end, but have the jump thing beeping at you during a ride was a bit distracting.
    All the gear and no idea.

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    OK so some great info on here that I have read through. I've also watched a few youtube videos on use / reviews, but still am in limbo on a few key issues for me. Maybe someone can give me up-to-date info / assessment on the following before I pull the trigger, please

    1) I sweat a lot, ride in rain, and humidity as part of my travel rides. Can you control all functions on the 830 with the physical buttons if the touchscreen gets wet? This is my #1 PRIORITY / deal breaker.

    2) Do trail directions reasonably work? I don't really care about the "fork" feature. What I want to know is if I DL a track from Trailforks and put it on my wishlist, can I see it and my gps location during the ride? That to me is the only "navigation" feature that's important, as I ride A LOT of trails blind.

    3) Is the mount easy to travel with? I rent a lot of bikes and would need to hook it up and unhook it constantly. Any foreseen issues here?

    I'm leaning towards the 830 *IF* I can control the features without the touchscreen. I don't mind spending a few extra $$s for features I won't necessarily use, because I can, but the touchscreen versus button control is a *must*.

    Any help is GREATLY appreciated. I am looking to buy today / tomorrow so I have for next weeks travel ride. Thanks!
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  136. #136
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    OK so some great info on here that I have read through. I've also watched a few youtube videos on use / reviews, but still am in limbo on a few key issues for me. Maybe someone can give me up-to-date info / assessment on the following before I pull the trigger, please

    1) I sweat a lot, ride in rain, and humidity as part of my travel rides. Can you control all functions on the 830 with the physical buttons if the touchscreen gets wet? This is my #1 PRIORITY / deal breaker.

    2) Do trail directions reasonably work? I don't really care about the "fork" feature. What I want to know is if I DL a track from Trailforks and put it on my wishlist, can I see it and my gps location during the ride? That to me is the only "navigation" feature that's important, as I ride A LOT of trails blind.

    3) Is the mount easy to travel with? I rent a lot of bikes and would need to hook it up and unhook it constantly. Any foreseen issues here?

    I'm leaning towards the 830 *IF* I can control the features without the touchscreen. I don't mind spending a few extra $$s for features I won't necessarily use, because I can, but the touchscreen versus button control is a *must*.

    Any help is GREATLY appreciated. I am looking to buy today / tomorrow so I have for next weeks travel ride. Thanks!
    1) there are no physical buttons to control menu features, likewise the screen is not able to control things you could do with a physical button.
    Button on 830 controls:
    Lock screen (power button)
    Lap (left button)
    Start/Stop recording (right button)

    Recently I splattered water on the screen and the reaction with a swipe wasn't great. However once I swiped a time or two the water moved away enough that I could control the screen. Not a deal breaker. You could set it to autoscroll ON if you wanted other data screens during a wet period. In my opinion, if you only have a half a second to swipe the screen, and it didn't work, the screen you want to see probably isn't that important where it can't wait until your next one handed opportunity.

    2) Hate to direct you to my long post, but scroll up a few posts to my recent lengthy ones - my thoughts on navigation are outlined there. You can see you on a map, but it gets confused at times telling you where to turn. My eyes aren't terrific enough to see where I am relative to the trail though. But yeah, I'm sure I've addressed your question in 2 of my long posts above. First one I gave first impressions, my next long post follows up with more uses of it.

    3) I am using the handlebar mount (not the clamp mountain bike mount). It's as easy as having the two o-rings and base with you to transfer to different bikes. The clamp mount will require you to carry spacers to fit various bars as well as require you to remove and install via a screw each time.

    If you will only purchase the 830 if you can use buttons, I'm sorry but you will not be purchasing the 830 then.
    The touchscreen has been near flawless for me for a few weeks of use so far. If you purchase the 530, you will not be able to navigate the menus with the buttons during a chunky section of trail any better than you can with a wet touch screen. IF you are stopped, the touchscreen will be fine as you can simply wipe away the water while stopped.
    If what I mentioned isn't helpful regarding water and physical buttons -I'm sorry that you won't get to experience the 830. If what I mention about not being able to control the screen when wet -please give me a scenario where this is a problem and I'll try to address it.

  137. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    If you will only purchase the 830 if you can use buttons, I'm sorry but you will not be purchasing the 830 then.
    The touchscreen has been near flawless for me for a few weeks of use so far. If you purchase the 530, you will not be able to navigate the menus with the buttons during a chunky section of trail any better than you can with a wet touch screen. IF you are stopped, the touchscreen will be fine as you can simply wipe away the water while stopped.
    If what I mentioned isn't helpful regarding water and physical buttons -I'm sorry that you won't get to experience the 830. If what I mention about not being able to control the screen when wet -please give me a scenario where this is a problem and I'll try to address it.
    Thanks, your post is helpful!

    Regarding the wetness. I have done two rides recently, one in Oklahoma (Lake Thunderbird) and one in Philly (Wissahikcon) that showed me the problem with touchscreens as your only means of trail navigation. In Oklahoma, due to the humidity, my skin was literally pruned and water soaked to the point the touchscreen on my phone wouldn't recognize it. Once my cell phone screen was streaked, I could not get it to dry enough to use. It literally took me 25 minutes to get my phone open to ensure I was on the right trail!

    In Philly, similar scenario with humidity, wet hands and clothes. However, from the OK situation, I keep a microfiber towelette in my pack. As soon as I took it out of the plastic wrap the second or third time, to check trails it was soaked, and even wringing it out, I couldn't use the screen enough to get the passcode entered. I eventually found an old piece of cardboard in the bush that I was able to semi-dry my hands and screen enough to use, but it taught me a valuable lesson. Water and touchscreens are bad! I like the idea of physical push buttons for this reason. I guess I could get a bigger microfiber towel and/or just keep a piece of cardboard in my pack.

    I re-read your long post and it sounds like it was kind of a mixed bag for turn by turn and doesn't really answer my specific question. I was hoping I could bring up a track in its entirety and see a "blue dot" for my gps location. I am pretty good (now) at using short travel segments to keep track of my direction and ensure I am on the right trail. I don't necessarily need turn by turn, but overview with blue dot is what I am looking for. Sounds like the 830 and 530 both do this but assuming no water, you could more easily use the 830 to zoom in via touchscreen?

    I might just buy the 830 and live with the deficiencies and water concern. Thanks for the feedback!
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  138. #138
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Humm, I don't know if I can provide any other feedback regarding dampness and touch screen. I've never ever had a screen go unresponsive for 25 minutes due to moisture.
    Not saying it isn't possible, but not something I can duplicate to know how much of a concern the 830 would be for you.

    Truthfully, I didn't look at the 830 screen well enough (wearing glasses) to read the map. The screen is a tad small for me to make decisions about if I should turn left or right. Navigating the screen wasn't too bad, but having a point of reference is challenging with my eyes and zooming in/out enough to see where the heck I'm at. Using the prompts along for 'turn here' isn't quite enough but was helpful. If I had to stop to look at the map I'm not sure if I'd be able to go where I wanted. Sorry, just can't see the screen well enough to say how well it would work. The worse case were the two scenarios where it said to u-turn but I knew it was incorrect. Being in an area of uncertainty I'd probably look, look again, and probably again, to see if there was a place I should have turned. At least when it told me to u-turn, and I did, it tells me again (now going the wrong direction) to u-turn. As in I've been passing by an intersection and like a dummy missed it....but I didn't miss any. Definitely confused where it thought I should have turned.

    Having your phone map handy, or a paper map, will be helpful for most cases but otherwise, it may be reliable enough on popular trails. Not sure when I can test it again. Sort of training right now an loading a route to be navigated to isn't something I could quickly do.
    Actually, thinking of doing a hot lap on a local short loop tomorrow. Maybe I can ask it to guide me back to the trail, there are a few turns on the route that could confuse it.

    I may add, my touchscreen has still been working very well and I have done a cardinal sin -I've left the screen protector on still too (responsive even through the protective cover). I know I know, the protective cover is meant to be slowly removed upon unboxing.

    I just executed the navigation screen after loading a course sitting at home and it is showing the blue arrow for my location (my house). And am alerted that I'm off course, rightfully so. Now that I think back, yes your location is identified on the map. I zoomed in to the trail start and it is pinned on the map as well. With the Garmin on my kitchen table and rotating the device, the arrow is following the front of Garmin and realigning the map to show me where forward is.
    So I think that does answer your question, your position is identified on the map. I won't have glasses on if I ride tomorrow to know how well I can read the trails to know if I should go one way or another though.

  139. #139
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    Awesome man that was exactly what I was looking for. On order!
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  140. #140
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Awesome man that was exactly what I was looking for. On order!
    Quick follow up for you.
    I turned on the maps again for my normal profile -there is in fact an arrow for your location. I didn't stop and look at any intersections today, was riding too fast.
    Forgot to mention in the previous few interactions, the may updates as you ride. When you stop it zooms out (unfortunately) but you can zoom back in to better look at the trail intersections.

    I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

  141. #141
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Regarding the wetness. I have done two rides recently, one in Oklahoma (Lake Thunderbird) and one in Philly (Wissahikcon) that showed me the problem with touchscreens as your only means of trail navigation. In Oklahoma, due to the humidity, my skin was literally pruned and water soaked to the point the touchscreen on my phone wouldn't recognize it. Once my cell phone screen was streaked, I could not get it to dry enough to use. It literally took me 25 minutes to get my phone open to ensure I was on the right trail!
    This is why I won't go near modern touchscreens with a 50ft pole. I ride in the southern Appalachians. Wetness is a near constant. Either from sweat or from rain, and in the summertime, you can't just wipe the sweat away. You won't have anything dry to do it with, so you just push it around. You should see my glasses when I'm at the end of a sweaty ride. Thankfully we usually have a little bit of glorious cool, dry weather in the spring/fall (and maybe in the wintertime, too).

  142. #142
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    This is why I won't go near modern touchscreens with a 50ft pole. I ride in the southern Appalachians. Wetness is a near constant. Either from sweat or from rain, and in the summertime, you can't just wipe the sweat away. You won't have anything dry to do it with, so you just push it around. You should see my glasses when I'm at the end of a sweaty ride. Thankfully we usually have a little bit of glorious cool, dry weather in the spring/fall (and maybe in the wintertime, too).
    I live in/ride WNC too, the touchscreen on the 830 works great in all conditions in my own personal experience (unlike the 820). They finally got something right.. now if we could correct the step backward in the gps chip department things would be great

  143. #143
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    I live in/ride WNC too, the touchscreen on the 830 works great in all conditions in my own personal experience (unlike the 820). They finally got something right.. now if we could correct the step backward in the gps chip department things would be great
    You can call me extra cautious about such things after some truly horrendous experiences with sweaty touchscreens. I'm in no rush to replace my trusty 520. Buttons will always work with no degradation in function. And yeah, I get that there are certain things that Garmin doesn't let you do unless you have a touchscreen. Due to aforementioned experiences with touchscreens, I'm willing to sacrifice that bit of functionality for stability.

  144. #144
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    You can call me extra cautious about such things after some truly horrendous experiences with sweaty touchscreens. I'm in no rush to replace my trusty 520. Buttons will always work with no degradation in function. And yeah, I get that there are certain things that Garmin doesn't let you do unless you have a touchscreen. Due to aforementioned experiences with touchscreens, I'm willing to sacrifice that bit of functionality for stability.
    Once bitten, twice shy. I hear ya 100%

  145. #145
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by V1Rotate View Post
    Once bitten, twice shy. I hear ya 100%
    My old Garmin Oregon 450t has what, IMO, is an ideal touchscreen for outdoor devices. It's a resistive touchscreen, relying on pressure and not the galvanic skin response of a capacitive touchscreen.

    That old Oregon doesn't GAF if I'm sweating or if it's raining. It's very reliable under those conditions. I can't recall if Garmin ever used that type of touchscreen on any Edges, but they don't use it at all anymore, because so many people complained that it wasn't as sensitive and responsive as their iphones. Swiping screens is just a suggestion. There's no multi touch capability. But you can tap "virtual" buttons on the screen (there are virtual buttons to change screens easily enough even though swiping isn't too effective), and you can pan the map. I use this GPS when I need to mark (and name) waypoints, when I need to manipulate the map more, etc. I have some mounts for it for my bike, even though it's super bulky compared to an Edge. Usually it just gets used for hiking, trail work, that sort of thing.

  146. #146
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    Just a little heads up for sweaty touchscreens I mentioned above. I wasn't aware but cardboard has amazing absorptive properties. Once I found the little piece of cardboard, pretty much weightless, I was always able to use to wipe of my phone to the point it worked. From now on, I am always riding with a 4" x 6" piece in my pack.
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  147. #147
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Just a little heads up for sweaty touchscreens I mentioned above. I wasn't aware but cardboard has amazing absorptive properties. Once I found the little piece of cardboard, pretty much weightless, I was always able to use to wipe of my phone to the point it worked. From now on, I am always riding with a 4" x 6" piece in my pack.
    Hm, nice thought. But accessing something stored inside my pack requires taking off the pack to get it. I just don't see wanting to do that to wipe off my GPS screen more than once during the course of a ride. And I definitely see the need to do so more than once based on the conditions I'm dealing with (which is partly a very personal issue - how much I sweat).

    Even dealing with it for my cell phone to allow me to take more pics isn't something I want to mess with. I have a couple jerseys with microfiber cloths sewn in to clean your glasses. Nice idea, but doesn't work in humid climates with sweaty conditions (cloth becomes saturated). I have a microfiber cloth sewn into my pack, too, and it stays dry at least until it rains. My glasses have to be especially bad for me to want to take off my pack to wipe them on that bit of cloth. I have friends who refuse to ride in glasses of any kind because of the sweat issue, but I'd rather deal with sweaty lenses than crap in my eye (they all have to stop frequently because it's a problem).

  148. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    Itís here . Iíll be reviewing pretty much strictly in the context of real time trail navigation. Iíll ride local with it over the next few days but on Monday Iíll be in DuPont NC which will be the first real ďblindĒ test.

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-093a0a3d-f715-4429-95b8-c4d3a754512d.jpg
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  149. #149
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,541
    Living in Dallas, where it's WAY more humid than a lot of people think, I've had NO trouble whatsoever with the touchscreens on my Garmin 1030 (road riding) and 830 (MTB). All the Garmins I've had in the past (1000, 820, 520, 500) have given me anywhere from some to a lot of problems being able to scroll with wet hands/fingers/screens.
    Ibis Ripmo V2
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    A road bike

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    6,269
    Is the MTB worth the extra money? I canít imagine I would use the remote, and wheel speed sensor doesnít matter much to me as I really just care about time, elevation and distance. Is the mount any good or is the standard good mount enough on a short stem?

  151. #151
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Living in Dallas, where it's WAY more humid than a lot of people think, I've had NO trouble whatsoever with the touchscreens on my Garmin 1030 (road riding) and 830 (MTB). All the Garmins I've had in the past (1000, 820, 520, 500) have given me anywhere from some to a lot of problems being able to scroll with wet hands/fingers/screens.
    I get it. But Dallas still isn't as humid as other places I've been. I used to live in deep E. TX and lots of my family thought I lived in the f'ing desert. I had to explain that where I lived was more like Louisiana with swamps and alligators and $hit than like El Paso. Plus, as I mentioned, sweat is a variable that's unique to everybody. Some people will sweat buckets when it's 70F and others won't sweat noticeably at 100F.

    I can only say what I've experienced and my experience with touchscreens and sweat means I want to avoid touchscreens as much as possible when I'm engaging in sweaty activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Is the MTB worth the extra money? I canít imagine I would use the remote, and wheel speed sensor doesnít matter much to me as I really just care about time, elevation and distance. Is the mount any good or is the standard good mount enough on a short stem?
    Depends. The shape of the stem matters. My current mtb with a 40mm Spank stem gets the standard Garmin mount on the handlebar right next to the stem clamp. Those mounts are trash on the stem itself. I have other mount types that put the computer directly above the stem on other bikes (A SRAM Quickview MTB flipped backwards over the stem and a Rec-Mounts stem spacer mount with a pivot to adjust the angle of the computer), but I don't like them on this particular bike. I use a Garmin out-front mount on my commuter bike in front of the stem, and I like it there, but not on any mtb.

    If you care about distance, the wheel sensor SHOULD be on your radar, though, as GPS-only distance will shortcut corners repeatedly and persistently, and the overall difference between GPS-only distance and wheel sensor distance will be greater the more corners on the trail, the tighter those corners, and the faster those corners. And also the poorer the GPS reception.

  152. #152
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,541
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I get it. But Dallas still isn't as humid as other places I've been. I used to live in deep E. TX and lots of my family thought I lived in the f'ing desert. I had to explain that where I lived was more like Louisiana with swamps and alligators and $hit than like El Paso. Plus, as I mentioned, sweat is a variable that's unique to everybody. Some people will sweat buckets when it's 70F and others won't sweat noticeably at 100F.

    I can only say what I've experienced and my experience with touchscreens and sweat means I want to avoid touchscreens as much as possible when I'm engaging in sweaty activities.
    You know, there ARE other people in this thread that might be interested in some anecdotes from someone who lives in a HOT/HUMID region regarding the touchscreens. The Heat Index has been over 110* in Dallas lately, the same as in East Texas. And Louisiana. You can't even ride at 7 in the morning without being soaked in 10 minutes. But whatever, I'm sure you're gonna tell me that it's 95* and 90% where you ride.
    Ibis Ripmo V2
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    A road bike

  153. #153
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6,246
    I live in the Phoenix area, and ride in the heat and sun. And now with the monsoon, itís humid, also. Iíve been using the 830 for a couple months now, and havenít had any issues using the touchscreen, and Iíve had some pretty sweaty rides, with sopping wet gloves and everything soaked with sweat. Only issue Iíve had, though it hasnít been a problem, is sweat dripping on the screen, and the unit thinking it was ďtouchedĒ, and changing accordingly. Iíve had to touch or swipe to get it back to where it was.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  154. #154
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Is the MTB worth the extra money? I canít imagine I would use the remote, and wheel speed sensor doesnít matter much to me as I really just care about time, elevation and distance. Is the mount any good or is the standard good mount enough on a short stem?
    That's a good question.

    I can't understand who would need the remote. Maybe racing or time trials where you need the time to stop super fast. Hard to do a stop across a finish line and use one hand to press the stop button -the remote would make that easy. Or if a person liked to set a lap quite often, when doing some technical section. Again, person could use the lap button. I won't be installing it.

    I wanted to use the clamp mount, but realize I use my stem to strap my bike in the truck, so that's out. I'm using the standard bar mount with the rubber bands. Seems to work well.

    The GPS has been grossly error prone as far as tracking distance. If you are okay with having the potential for shortage, such as 1/2 mile to 3/4 miles on a 9 mile loop, speed sensor isn't necessary for you. I'm finding it necessary as I like the extra accuracy. It also comes with the protective cover. That's something I appreciate. You could go with the standard computer and purchase the cover and save money. If you purchase a couple of the accessories, you'd be similar cost to the bundle. I need to get a 2nd speed sensor, so with the MTB bundle and the few extras, it was cost effective for me to save a few bucks, have the mount (which I may still try to adapt), the protective case and one of the speed sensors I wanted.

    The rubber band mounds are mounted on the bar of each of my bikes.
    It was a tough decision for me. Something that did help was I put the money from the sale of my road bike to this purchase. I was going to get the 530 -figured no need to go crazy with money. Since the road bike more or less paid for mine, it wasn't a big deal to spend a few extras on the package deal.

  155. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    I live in the Phoenix area, and ride in the heat and sun. And now with the monsoon, itís humid, also. Iíve been using the 830 for a couple months now, and havenít had any issues using the touchscreen, and Iíve had some pretty sweaty rides, with sopping wet gloves and everything soaked with sweat. Only issue Iíve had, though it hasnít been a problem, is sweat dripping on the screen, and the unit thinking it was ďtouchedĒ, and changing accordingly. Iíve had to touch or swipe to get it back to where it was.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    If you didn't know -the power button becomes a screen lock during recording. I haven't had to use it yet. I've splashed water from my hydration hose but it hasn't changed the screen for me yet. I don't think I've sweated on it yet.

  156. #156
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    If you didn't know -the power button becomes a screen lock during recording. I haven't had to use it yet. I've splashed water from my hydration hose but it hasn't changed the screen for me yet. I don't think I've sweated on it yet.
    I did not know that...thanks for the tip!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  157. #157
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    You know, there ARE other people in this thread that might be interested in some anecdotes from someone who lives in a HOT/HUMID region regarding the touchscreens. The Heat Index has been over 110* in Dallas lately, the same as in East Texas. And Louisiana. You can't even ride at 7 in the morning without being soaked in 10 minutes. But whatever, I'm sure you're gonna tell me that it's 95* and 90% where you ride.
    *whoosh*

    the point wasn't who has it worse in whatever weather. My point was that some people sweat more than others and that all I could refer to was my OWN experience and it hasn't been good with touchscreens.

    FWIW, I tried riding in the mornings there and hated it. I had better results when riding in the evenings as the sun went down. Less humid then. I was somewhat lucky in that my local trails never actually "closed" for the night.

    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Only issue Iíve had, though it hasnít been a problem, is sweat dripping on the screen, and the unit thinking it was ďtouchedĒ, and changing accordingly. Iíve had to touch or swipe to get it back to where it was.
    This is helpful. The screen DOES respond to stray sweat, but it is not as bad as other devices I've dealt with.

    On some cell phones I've had in the past (like the Galaxy S5), this kind of thing didn't register as a single touch. It seemed to activate every part of the screen at once and the device would absolutely flip out, changing settings, making calls, making texts, using apps, etc. Nightmare. Had to pull the battery to get it to stop because actual touches were overwhelmed by the "ghost" touches from the sweat. My current phone (LG V20) handles it better, but still not well. It doesn't go completely possessed, but actual touches don't register accurately so it's still hard to control. I usually have to turn it off once it starts up, but at least I don't have to remove the battery.

    I have to wonder if different people's sweat chemistry (yes, I do know that sweat composition varies somewhat from person to person) and not just quantity affects how touchscreens react to it.

  158. #158
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    It definitely takes a bit to set the device up, get it all updated and sync'd to your phone and your computer. Getting a route from .gpx to Strava to Edge 830 took about 1 minute so that was cool. Took it for a short ride this mornging using the DL'd route from Strava and it does appear that this will indeed work for watching your gps position versus a previously downloaded route and Trailforks trail/route. Pretty psyched so far. Time will tell
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  159. #159
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,541
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Is the MTB worth the extra money? I canít imagine I would use the remote, and wheel speed sensor doesnít matter much to me as I really just care about time, elevation and distance. Is the mount any good or is the standard good mount enough on a short stem?
    If you really care about distance, at least get a speed sensor. Otherwise, you'll be shorted up to 12-15% on distance and speed just using GPS in tree-covered, twisty trails.
    Ibis Ripmo V2
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    A road bike

  160. #160
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,541
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    *whoosh*

    the point wasn't who has it worse in whatever weather. My point was that some people sweat more than others and that all I could refer to was my OWN experience and it hasn't been good with touchscreens.

    FWIW, I tried riding in the mornings there and hated it. I had better results when riding in the evenings as the sun went down. Less humid then. I was somewhat lucky in that my local trails never actually "closed" for the night.
    YOU brought up the issue of my weather not being as bad as so and so. And the point was that I, and a few others apparently, have had much better luck with the latest Garmin touchscreens in hot, sweaty weather than with the past generations. And that this might be of some use to people on the fence about getting one. If you've made your mind up about never using one again, great. Others may not have.
    Ibis Ripmo V2
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Pivot Mach 4SL
    Pivot LES SS
    A road bike

  161. #161
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    6,269
    830 with MTB bundle ordered. We'll see how it goes! Thanks for all the info guys.

  162. #162
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,219
    Regarding sweat...pardon the tangent...MBA mag had a blurb on these. Originally for moto, now they have a cycling version:

    https://www.waragainstsweat.com/sweat-shields.html

    Anyone tried these? Sweat factor still has me leary of touchscreen...
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  163. #163
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    Nice 50! I just got my wheel sensors but too late for my ride today. Report coming soon! Looks like the Edge reports about 93% distance as my FITBIT Ionic on Strava w/o the sensors. I'll let you know how they compare after I get a chance to install and calibrate!

    Oh and will say, I am current (I know it will fade) obsessed with decreasing my flow #s and beating my hang time PR, lol. I guarantee a wreck is incoming due to my competitive nature!
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  164. #164
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I wish the jump dynamic feature was a little better.

    It indicates on the map where a jump occurred, but you have no idea which is which.

    Out of 74 jumps, jump #42 was the one Garmin considers to be the best. Great, now where the heck is jump #42!

    I'm glad the newest firmware allows the alert to be disabled for jumping. Annoying to have it beep at you when you bunny hop or otherwise trick it to think you jumped.
    Plus it's a pain to see the readout when you're doing a knack-knack cancan backflip thing.

  165. #165
    mtbr member
    Reputation: roughster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,882
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    ... Plus it's a pain to see the readout when you're doing a knack-knack cancan backflip thing.
    I just want to be clear, I need to ride with you!
    2020 Turbo Levo Comp
    2019 Strive CF 8
    2018 Farley EX 8

  166. #166
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    I just want to be clear, I need to ride with you!
    Take a camera.
    Oh, and an emergency beacon.

  167. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    Regarding sweat...pardon the tangent...MBA mag had a blurb on these. Originally for moto, now they have a cycling version:

    https://www.waragainstsweat.com/sweat-shields.html

    Anyone tried these? Sweat factor still has me leary of touchscreen...
    Back in my moto daze we used women's sanitary napkins between the helmet and forehead.
    What, me worry?

  168. #168
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,219
    ^picture please, thatís awesome!
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  169. #169
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Back in my moto daze we used women's sanitary napkins between the helmet and forehead.
    I was thinking it, for sure. that product is probably a modified version of exactly that.

  170. #170
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I wish the jump dynamic feature was a little better.

    It indicates on the map where a jump occurred, but you have no idea which is which.

    Out of 74 jumps, jump #42 was the one Garmin considers to be the best. Great, now where the heck is jump #42!

    I'm glad the newest firmware allows the alert to be disabled for jumping. Annoying to have it beep at you when you bunny hop or otherwise trick it to think you jumped.
    Plus it's a pain to see the readout when you're doing a knack-knack cancan backflip thing.
    Maybe a good idea to enable Garmin Incident Detection

  171. #171
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    525
    Hey all,

    I've had an Edge 530 for a few weeks now. I'm on 4.10 with the beta GPS 2.42. I mostly use it on the road. Strava Live Segments are really cool and it does a pretty good job with navigation on the road. It is pretty dumb when you go off route in that it always tells you to U turn and back track rather than map to a route that will get you back on track. For example say you're in the city and the streets are a grid. If you turn a block earlier it will tell you to turn around rather than continue and simple turn again to catch the route. It does seem to track well enough on the streets, though.

    Mountain biking has been less good. It was would be soooooooooo fantastic if this thing could navigate me on a route that i import from TrailForks so i can feely ride with no stopping for phone checking. Sadly, it just isn't really working. It gets lost, tells me to turn around, and can't get me back on track. The 530 map is very clunky to navigate and even see and i can't use it to figure out where i am. It's useless if i have to pull out my phone.

    I'm now debating trying an 830 or even 1030 given the BCBS discount mentioned above. I've heard the 530 has a new Sony GPS chip that is not very good. Do the 830 or 1030 have this chip or the older/better one? Does the 1030 have all the mountain bike features in the latest firmware? Is it too big to be practical on a mountain bike?'

    Is it worth it when i have a phone in my pocket that seems to work pretty well? Hard to say.

  172. #172
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    Hey all,

    I've had an Edge 530 for a few weeks now. I'm on 4.10 with the beta GPS 2.42. I mostly use it on the road. Strava Live Segments are really cool and it does a pretty good job with navigation on the road. It is pretty dumb when you go off route in that it always tells you to U turn and back track rather than map to a route that will get you back on track. For example say you're in the city and the streets are a grid. If you turn a block earlier it will tell you to turn around rather than continue and simple turn again to catch the route. It does seem to track well enough on the streets, though.

    Mountain biking has been less good. It was would be soooooooooo fantastic if this thing could navigate me on a route that i import from TrailForks so i can feely ride with no stopping for phone checking. Sadly, it just isn't really working. It gets lost, tells me to turn around, and can't get me back on track. The 530 map is very clunky to navigate and even see and i can't use it to figure out where i am. It's useless if i have to pull out my phone.

    I'm now debating trying an 830 or even 1030 given the BCBS discount mentioned above. I've heard the 530 has a new Sony GPS chip that is not very good. Do the 830 or 1030 have this chip or the older/better one? Does the 1030 have all the mountain bike features in the latest firmware? Is it too big to be practical on a mountain bike?'

    Is it worth it when i have a phone in my pocket that seems to work pretty well? Hard to say.
    Yep, basically the same stuff I've written about in regard to the trail navigation. It works okay and I suppose if one were to take their time they could have better luck, which isn't all that bad of an idea if you are in an unfamiliar area and approach an intersection.

    I would offer though, with the navigation not being exactly perfect, a phone also doesn't tell you how to go, but you do have a larger screen to read. But realistically, how often does one require navigation. I haven't used mine since I tested it a few weeks ago. Riding in a new place I would for sure need to figure out how to get the maps loaded. I've only imported my own routes from previous rides, just to test. I've been out before and fumbled with a paper map trying to figure out where I was and comparing it to the phone location dot. I do not believe it is a deal breaker but the functionality is less than desirable.

    I can't answer the questions about the chipset. I've heard from others though that the 1030 is too bulky for a mountain bike. With an out front type of mount it's prone to damages. The rubber band mount allows the heavier device to roll on the handlebar. No person experience, just from what I've read.

  173. #173
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,248
    DCrainmaker said both the 530/830 have th enew sony chip (dunno about the 1030).

    I found, running an out front mount on most of my bikes (I did find it a bit clumsy using the rubber band mounts), the the 1000 never got in the way, was too big or anything (similar dimension to 1030). Had no issue with it at all. However that's me, doing my riding, somebody else could smash it to bits on every ride.
    All the gear and no idea.

  174. #174
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmandoo View Post
    Maybe a good idea to enable Garmin Incident Detection
    I hope you're being facetious as it's ludicrously unreliable, with false alarms out the wazoo. And that's as long as it remains connected to your phone, which is also unreliable.
    What, me worry?

  175. #175
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    Mountain biking has been less good. It was would be soooooooooo fantastic if this thing could navigate me on a route that i import from TrailForks so i can feely ride with no stopping for phone checking. Sadly, it just isn't really working. It gets lost, tells me to turn around, and can't get me back on track. The 530 map is very clunky to navigate and even see and i can't use it to figure out where i am. It's useless if i have to pull out my phone.

    I'm now debating trying an 830 or even 1030 given the BCBS discount mentioned above. I've heard the 530 has a new Sony GPS chip that is not very good. Do the 830 or 1030 have this chip or the older/better one? Does the 1030 have all the mountain bike features in the latest firmware? Is it too big to be practical on a mountain bike?'

    Is it worth it when i have a phone in my pocket that seems to work pretty well? Hard to say.
    Navigating mtb trails is fraught with complications that you don't deal with on pavement. I've managed semi-successful navigation on trails with my Edge 520, but it has notable shortcomings that were more irritating than they were worth. These days, my Garmin is more or less strictly a recording device. Yesterday I used it a bit on my ride to help me gauge the climbs (they were brutal and I wanted to know when they'd be over). For that, I'd put on the map screen so I could see the topo lines. I use gpsfiledepot.com topo maps on mine, which show many (but not all) of the trails I ride.

    The one drawback of the button interface for the 520/530 is map viewing. Zooming is buried in the menus, and panning isn't available. The only thing you'd gain from moving to a touchscreen computer is the ability to navigate the screen better. Otherwise, you won't get much other improvements. And, you'll get the potential for extra headaches from the touchscreen interface itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I've heard from others though that the 1030 is too bulky for a mountain bike. With an out front type of mount it's prone to damages. The rubber band mount allows the heavier device to roll on the handlebar. No person experience, just from what I've read.
    Just to be clear, I'm the most vocal about big computers on the bars. It really just comes down to preference for me. Yes, there are additional risks that may or may not crop up. But at its root, I strongly prefer a smaller computer and that's all it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    I found, running an out front mount on most of my bikes (I did find it a bit clumsy using the rubber band mounts), the the 1000 never got in the way, was too big or anything (similar dimension to 1030). Had no issue with it at all. However that's me, doing my riding, somebody else could smash it to bits on every ride.
    I like different mounts for different bikes. This is part of the reason why I don't like the bigger computers. They don't play as nice on some mount locations that I otherwise like for smaller computers. I can see why you prefer out front with the 1000. That location DOES get it out of the way, even if it introduces extra risk elsewhere.

  176. #176
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I hope you're being facetious as it's ludicrously unreliable, with false alarms out the wazoo. And that's as long as it remains connected to your phone, which is also unreliable.
    Complete sarcasm, yes.

    In my experiences, Garmin includes a wonderful (there's that sarcasm again) set of "features" - Live Track, Incident Detection, Group Find (or whatever it's called), etc... that look pretty on paper and never work in real life, although my wife did get a Live Track e-mail notification yesterday, 1st time in a while and long after when she was looking at her e-mail.

    So sarcasm it is when talking Garmin

  177. #177
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    Hey all,


    Mountain biking has been less good. It was would be soooooooooo fantastic if this thing could navigate me on a route that i import from TrailForks so i can feely ride with no stopping for phone checking. Sadly, it just isn't really working. It gets lost, tells me to turn around, and can't get me back on track. The 530 map is very clunky to navigate and even see and i can't use it to figure out where i am. It's useless if i have to pull out my phone.

    Is it worth it when i have a phone in my pocket that seems to work pretty well? Hard to say.
    Off road trail navigation is kind of just getting going. Think about the fact that Google Maps (which a lot of systems use, or the OSM maps) has pretty much EVERY road that exists, plotted in the data base, thus if you plot a road route/course, the device is going to know you are off course if you take a wrong turn as the road you turned on is also in the map data base.

    Not so with trail riding. The device can't tell you to keep right at an intersection unless the side trail is also in the map database and a lot of trails are not. TrailForks (IMO) has probably the most complete and current data base but misses a ton of stuff in my favorite local park as nobody's bothered to ride every trail and get it all logged in the TF data base. Thus and unless you are following a not terribly complicated set of trails, even TF is going to have issues. And a phone is no better as the database is the problem, not the device. A phone gives you bigger screen to view the map is all, but larger GPS's do a good job of this as well.

  178. #178
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daxdagr8t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    515
    So 530 screen had a seizure, i have the black screen of death in the middle of my mtb trip in norcal. So pissed.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  179. #179
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmandoo View Post
    Off road trail navigation is kind of just getting going. Think about the fact that Google Maps (which a lot of systems use, or the OSM maps) has pretty much EVERY road that exists, plotted in the data base, thus if you plot a road route/course, the device is going to know you are off course if you take a wrong turn as the road you turned on is also in the map data base.

    Not so with trail riding. The device can't tell you to keep right at an intersection unless the side trail is also in the map database and a lot of trails are not. TrailForks (IMO) has probably the most complete and current data base but misses a ton of stuff in my favorite local park as nobody's bothered to ride every trail and get it all logged in the TF data base. Thus and unless you are following a not terribly complicated set of trails, even TF is going to have issues. And a phone is no better as the database is the problem, not the device. A phone gives you bigger screen to view the map is all, but larger GPS's do a good job of this as well.
    The information is there. The 530/830 come with every mountain bike trail in the world preloaded via TrailForks. I'm using a premade route that i imported from TrailForks. The map is accurate. The problem is GPS positioning accuracy.

    I have an old friend who works for Garmin and asked him about it. He said that adding a speed sensor will help as that info is used for position calculation. It's probably using a Kalman Filter or some type of state estimation. Maybe i'll try that next. He also said its an issue they're actively working on so hopefully it'll improve over time.

  180. #180
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The one drawback of the button interface for the 520/530 is map viewing. Zooming is buried in the menus, and panning isn't available. The only thing you'd gain from moving to a touchscreen computer is the ability to navigate the screen better. Otherwise, you won't get much other improvements. And, you'll get the potential for extra headaches from the touchscreen interface itself.
    You can pan if you click the upper right button in map view to select between the three dots you see on the upper right hand corner of the screen. It cycles between zoom, pan left/right, and pan up/down. Definitely clunky though. My friend who works at Garmin prefers the 530 he said as its easier to use with gloves and is generally more reliable once you get used to the interface. So maybe i'll keep trucking with what i have.

  181. #181
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    The information is there. The 530/830 come with every mountain bike trail in the world preloaded via TrailForks. I'm using a premade route that i imported from TrailForks. The map is accurate. The problem is GPS positioning accuracy.

    I have an old friend who works for Garmin and asked him about it. He said that adding a speed sensor will help as that info is used for position calculation. It's probably using a Kalman Filter or some type of state estimation. Maybe i'll try that next. He also said its an issue they're actively working on so hopefully it'll improve over time.
    Hardly. TF has a lot of trails but I could likely map out 4-5 miles of trails not shown on TF in a local park alone. Some areas have a rats maze of side trails that are not considered ďofficialĒ trails. What does the GPS do when you come up in an intersection that is not in in database ?, nothing as itís not aware that unofficial trails exists.

    And Iíve never read that a Garmin Speed Sensor does anything to calculate position other then give a measurement from the start.

  182. #182
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmandoo View Post
    Hardly. TF has a lot of trails but I could likely map out 4-5 miles of trails not shown on TF in a local park alone. Some areas have a rats maze of side trails that are not considered ďofficialĒ trails. What does the GPS do when you come up in an intersection that is not in in database ?, nothing as itís not aware that unofficial trails exists.

    And Iíve never read that a Garmin Speed Sensor does anything to calculate position other then give a measurement from the start.
    Of course its not literal. My point is that all the trail info i needed was there, it just wasn't tracking accurately enough. My entire planned route was loaded into the Garmin.

  183. #183
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    6,269
    Took the 830 on it's maiden voyage today. I actually like the remote feature much more than I thought I would. I like to toggle between screens without swiping the screen with gloves on. Had a few issues getting the sync to work with iPhone; deleted 830, added it back, and rebooted both devices problem fixed. Using the HR monitor on my Fenix 5x paired with the 830, really cool feature. The distance accuracy using the wheel speed sensor is pretty close to Strava, about 1/10 of a mile on a 7 mile ride. More to come as I play with it more.

  184. #184
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Took the 830 on it's maiden voyage today. I actually like the remote feature much more than I thought I would. I like to toggle between screens without swiping the screen with gloves on. Had a few issues getting the sync to work with iPhone; deleted 830, added it back, and rebooted both devices problem fixed. Using the HR monitor on my Fenix 5x paired with the 830, really cool feature. The distance accuracy using the wheel speed sensor is pretty close to Strava, about 1/10 of a mile on a 7 mile ride. More to come as I play with it more.
    I didn't realize the remote would change screens -that's kind of useful.
    I like that you can create several profiles to utilize screens of your choice. I've created 2, and didn't have to modify the as-delivered MTB profile.

    Did you use speed sensor auto calibration setting?

  185. #185
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    29,308
    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    The information is there. The 530/830 come with every mountain bike trail in the world preloaded via TrailForks. I'm using a premade route that i imported from TrailForks. The map is accurate. The problem is GPS positioning accuracy.

    I have an old friend who works for Garmin and asked him about it. He said that adding a speed sensor will help as that info is used for position calculation. It's probably using a Kalman Filter or some type of state estimation. Maybe i'll try that next. He also said its an issue they're actively working on so hopefully it'll improve over time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmandoo View Post
    Hardly..........And Iíve never read that a Garmin Speed Sensor does anything to calculate position other then give a measurement from the start.
    What? Trailforks does not have anywhere close to "every mountain bike trail in the world" in its database. That's just ridiculous.

    WTF is your Garmin friend saying about the wheel sensor and position calculation? I want to see a FAQ on that. Otherwise it's a load of crap. The product page for the fancy new "Speed Sensor 2" that doesn't even require a head unit doesn't say ANYTHING about that. The sensor gives better speed readings and more accurate distance measurements. That's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    You can pan if you click the upper right button in map view to select between the three dots you see on the upper right hand corner of the screen. It cycles between zoom, pan left/right, and pan up/down. Definitely clunky though. My friend who works at Garmin prefers the 530 he said as its easier to use with gloves and is generally more reliable once you get used to the interface. So maybe i'll keep trucking with what i have.
    My Edge 520 does not have pan functionality, unless it got added in a firmware update since the last time I looked. Nice to know the 530 has it, though. I prefer physical buttons over the touchscreen interface for the same reason, but I really wonder about your "Garmin friend".

    Quote Originally Posted by HuffyMan View Post
    Of course its not literal.
    Why in the hell did you say it, then? It was a ridiculous, unnecessary exaggeration. So it served your needs where you rode that one time. Use it at enough different places and you'll find that it won't be the best resource for all of them, though it might be for some. I've used the various trail apps enough that I've figured that part out in pretty short order.

  186. #186
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    6,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I didn't realize the remote would change screens -that's kind of useful.
    I like that you can create several profiles to utilize screens of your choice. I've created 2, and didn't have to modify the as-delivered MTB profile.

    Did you use speed sensor auto calibration setting?
    I actually used the Garmin Chart at 2326mm for a 29x2.3 tire size. I measured the tire and got 2353mm, so pretty close. The distances match my Strava distances pretty accurately but are a tad short, so I will probably bump up the circumference to the measured one.

  187. #187
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    410
    Hey guys I picked up an 830 the other day. Seems like a great unit and will do everything I need and more.

    One thing I'm curious about is if there is a way to input the total mileage for my bike (taken off of the computer the 830 replaced) into the total milage odo on the 830 so that I don't have to do math to figure out my maintenance intervals etc.

    Thanks
    J-

  188. #188
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9,184
    ^^^ that's the first thing you found that you need but it won't do.
    What, me worry?

  189. #189
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mfa81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,244
    strava is perfect for this if tou use it, it will calculate mileage per component!

  190. #190
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Quote Originally Posted by jjc155 View Post
    Hey guys I picked up an 830 the other day. Seems like a great unit and will do everything I need and more.

    One thing I'm curious about is if there is a way to input the total mileage for my bike (taken off of the computer the 830 replaced) into the total milage odo on the 830 so that I don't have to do math to figure out my maintenance intervals etc.

    Thanks
    J-
    I like where you are going with that thought.....

    BUT -if you transfer over 2356.9 then take a 20 mile ride on the new 830 -how will you know what the last service interval was. For example. you serviced your fork at 2189. How do you remember that number to know it was when your fork was serviced?

    I have 2 methods of tracking service. Excel -I input my ride date, miles ridden and hours ridden. Also use Strava. Stava is a good reminder that "wow, it's been a year already" or, dang, how I'd already rack up that many miles on X component. Excel as well, but I can sum the hours from the last service interval of whatever and know the hours (suspension for example). Just had fork and shock serviced today, it's been 13 months and not sure how many hours. Just need to check it then I'll know. I happen to remember it was last July, but I don't remember when I replaced the cassette. Excel and Strava will help me with that though.

  191. #191
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,574
    I track services etc with the "Pro Bike Garage" app on the phone.

  192. #192
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I like where you are going with that thought.....

    BUT -if you transfer over 2356.9 then take a 20 mile ride on the new 830 -how will you know what the last service interval was. For example. you serviced your fork at 2189. How do you remember that number to know it was when your fork was serviced?

    I have 2 methods of tracking service. Excel -I input my ride date, miles ridden and hours ridden. Also use Strava. Stava is a good reminder that "wow, it's been a year already" or, dang, how I'd already rack up that many miles on X component. Excel as well, but I can sum the hours from the last service interval of whatever and know the hours (suspension for example). Just had fork and shock serviced today, it's been 13 months and not sure how many hours. Just need to check it then I'll know. I happen to remember it was last July, but I don't remember when I replaced the cassette. Excel and Strava will help me with that though.
    I have a dry erase board in my shop with the next service interval time/mileage on it, sorta like the tag they put on your car at the oil change place, but I Derped and didn't even think about Strava, lol.

    Thanks
    J-

  193. #193
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I don't believe there is a way to adjust the odometer, but worth checking Garmin forums for that one.

    Otherwise, you could probably start a line item something like
    Next service interval:
    Proposed additional miles-miles on your board=Garmin Miles

    Of course once each of the items on your board has been serviced, the Garmin numbers will all be current.
    Perhaps log the current miles if you are looking for a total mileage.
    Everything on the Garmin now has has an additional <your previously recorded+Garmin> mileage from history.

    My bike computer (not GPS) has a running count as well. I know I have X miles on the actual bike. I think your thread is a good reminder to me -however I do have a spreadsheet that sums the total miles once I input from the ride.

  194. #194
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    10
    Quite a lot of posts here, I've skimmed but may have missed some.

    I have a 530, Loving it (my first GPS) my only gripe was that the Jump readings were overly optimistic... like I was frequenting 17ft+ jumps when I'd say 6ft at best, but it appears for the past few days if you check the Garmin Connect website they seem to have re-hashed the numbers so once your ride syncs check the website and you'll see more 'accurate' numbers... my 17 footers are now more 5.4ft etc, presumably a firmware update is incoming to update the device itself for that.

  195. #195
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    Good find. To be honest, I've never looked at the garmin device screen to realize there was a list of jumps. I've only looked at the web site after the fact.

    I wish there was a way to identify which jump was which.

  196. #196
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Blank3k View Post
    I was frequenting 17ft+ jumps when I'd say 6ft at best, but it appears for the past few days if you check the Garmin Connect website they seem to have re-hashed the numbers so once your ride syncs check the website and you'll see more 'accurate' numbers... my 17 footers are now more 5.4ft etc, presumably a firmware update is incoming to update the device itself for that.
    When you consider that typical consumer grade GPS accuracy is at best 10ft in a horizontal plain and widely inaccurate in vertical and elevation, you can understand that the entire concept of "measured jumps" as determined by ANY GPS unit are going to be absurd to determine with any precision. They are generally not used for aircraft landing without additional augmentation systems. So take those jumps measurements with a big grain of salt.

  197. #197
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Catmandoo View Post
    When you consider that typical consumer grade GPS accuracy is at best 10ft in a horizontal plain and widely inaccurate in vertical and elevation, you can understand that the entire concept of "measured jumps" as determined by ANY GPS unit are going to be absurd to determine with any precision. They are generally not used for aircraft landing without additional augmentation systems. So take those jumps measurements with a big grain of salt.
    safe to assume the Jump feature are more based on some form of accelerometer rather than GPS, ie bike vibration stops - assume it's a jump, vibration resumes, calculate time between & speed at the time of jump = distance & hang time... I would imagine people who can pull off silky smooth manuals through doubles etc would get a lot of false positives.

  198. #198
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    3,097
    Quote Originally Posted by Blank3k View Post
    safe to assume the Jump feature are more based on some form of accelerometer rather than GPS, ie bike vibration stops - assume it's a jump, vibration resumes, calculate time between & speed at the time of jump = distance & hang time... I would imagine people who can pull off silky smooth manuals through doubles etc would get a lot of false positives.
    Yep, I was about to say that. An accelerometer, gyroscope and accurate speed can get you close with some calculus. I've had some big ones where I just manualled the bike side but the air time was small.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

  199. #199
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    2,229
    I was alerted of a jump from bunny hops. That is sort of a jump but the motion is different, less sudden impact and a smoother takeoff.

    I've never had it do it with a wheelie, either at the lift off or when setting it down.

  200. #200
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    3,097
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I was alerted of a jump from bunny hops. That is sort of a jump but the motion is different, less sudden impact and a smoother takeoff.

    I've never had it do it with a wheelie, either at the lift off or when setting it down.
    If it alerts on high speed drops, it does for me, I'd expect it to alert on a bunny hop as well. The only manuals I've had alert or when it's a slight hop to manual land down the face. If it's a smooth landing it sees it as much too long jump.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Shimano M-424 pedals or M-530...and why?
    By 300hp in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-06-2014, 08:18 PM
  2. Garmin Edge 200 or Edge 500?
    By michael1 in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 03-14-2012, 01:40 PM
  3. Garmin EDGE 500 vs. EDGE 705
    By dadtorbn in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-05-2011, 10:03 AM
  4. How to Distinguish between the PG-830 and PG-850 SRAM 8 spd Cassette
    By 29Again in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-21-2007, 06:47 PM
  5. Broken cassette and chainring, SRAM PG-830
    By specialblend218 in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-09-2007, 02:29 AM

Members who have read this thread: 173

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.