Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019

    https://bikerumor.com/2019/04/24/gar...-even-offroad/
    I'm ordering this as soon as it's available. My old edge 500 has needed replaced for over a year now.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  2. #2
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    Read these:

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html

    The one thing I've always wanted and never got from Garmin was a device where the basic features worked reliably. They always bail on a product before they get it right. The touch screen on the 820 is an abomination. I've had three between buying one, a warranty replacement, and a replacement after breaking one. That's not saying anything about all the bugs. It's very rare I go for a ride and everything works as it should. 520 has plenty of it's own problems. I have one of those too. With previous units I would run down-rev firmware as the final version usually screwed up more things than it fixed.

    With these two new units, they've piled in so many new features I can't imagine them ever working right. None of the simpler previous units ever did.
    Do the math.

  3. #3
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    Thank goodness the 530 keeps real buttons. I'm not going anywhere near a touchscreen, even if it functions as intended.

    Most of it I don't care about, though. All those metrics - meh. Also don't care about all the connectivity with the phone. The one exception being the two security functions - find my gps and the "lock" mode.

    Things I do care about:
    Improved battery life - yay! always a good thing! appears this is at least in part due to using a new GPS chipset

    Added more satellites - adding the Galileo satellites is a good move. I was wondering when this was going to happen on more devices. got my answer. Curious which location options perform best under which circumstances, though. which is going to be a massively complicated question, of course.

    Maps - I don't need anything complicated. Just enough memory for maps. One thing not clear is whether the trailforks maps baked into the device ever get updated. the strength of services like TF and MTBProject is that they can be updated if something about the trial network changes.

  4. #4
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    Maybe I got lucky...maybe the 510 doesn't have many problems...but I've not had one issue with mine. It's not the latest and greatest but it has served me well for years and does all I need it to do. When the time comes for something new...not sure I'd go with a Garmin again. They do seem to have a ton of issues with a lot of their products.
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  5. #5
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    Most of the "new functions" on the 520+ (vs. the 520) don't work in any meaningful way.

    So I'm not going to bother reading what "newer functions" garmin would have me believe are included on the 530
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Maybe I got lucky...maybe the 510 doesn't have many problems...but I've not had one issue with mine. It's not the latest and greatest but it has served me well for years and does all I need it to do. When the time comes for something new...not sure I'd go with a Garmin again. They do seem to have a ton of issues with a lot of their products.
    Mine is super slow, it got corrupted somehow and I had to hard reset it and make all my training pages and stuff again, and locks up for 5-10 seconds sometimes. I personally can't wait to get rid of my 510 if the new one is going to be better.

  7. #7
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    ^^^ I fell for that at least 4 times in a row now. Instead each new model was just a whole new can of worms, appallingly bad, especially at the start. I'm looking forward to the 830!
    Do the math.

  8. #8
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    My quick review on the Edge 830 and 530

    So I picked up a 830 and 530. It's my first time with a bike computer. My plan is to use it for the following: Bike alarm, incident detection, live track, tracking other riders in my group, looking at trail maps, and overall data collection.

    Here are my initial thoughts: (I DID NOT READ THE ENTIRE MANUAL, so a lot of my complaints might be on me)

    1. Bike Alarm: alarm is not loud enough on the device. The main benefit is the notification on your cell that your bike is being stolen. Not sure about the range since I didn't test it. Overall I'd rate it a C.

    2. The live track feature is supposed to send an email every time it starts, it sends an email 50% of the time. I've only used it for 3 days, but 2 of 3 days, the live track webpage didn't work. Rating of F since it doesn't every time. Rating of B when it does work. I'm not sure if incident detection will work if live track isn't working so that concerns me.

    3. Ease of Use: I consider myself to be a gadget lover - but this thing is NOT intuitive. I can't figure out how to get into the mode where I see the other rider. Did a ride with a buddy and he was in my shared contacts list and we were both connected, but no idea how to get it to work. No, I didn't read the manual, I'll do that next. Rating D.

    How do I get to the mode where I can see other riders?


    4. The trail maps are ok. Rating C. There is a feature when you get to a fork, it's supposed to show you the options, didn't happen for me. Since the trails are wooded, it's hard to tell if you're facing the correct direction. When I did a road ride, the maps were great.

    5. Accuracy. On a trail ride, strava on my phone showed 9.6 miles, the Garmin 7.2 miles. Not sure which one is more accurate.

    6. Touchscreen vs Not: I much prefer the touchscreen. Easier to navigate the menus which are already confusing and too many. The touch didn't seem to recognize the swipe 100% of the time while on the trail and that was annoying.

    7. I have SRAM AXS shifting. I was told Garmin can show data from AXS, not sure how since I didn't see anything in the Garmin store about AXS.

    8. I wish I could see the map and current speed in one screen.

    9. I like txt messages showing up on screen.

    10. The screen in daylight is amazing.

    I'll keep playing with it but wanted to share some initial feedback.

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-2019-05-28-23_05_38-video-google-photos.jpg

  9. #9
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    Looks like some of the complaints are related to unrealistic expectations, potentially due to being insufficiently aware of how these things actually work, especially on a mtb. Some, because RTFM. Others, because Garmin produces shitty manuals, anyway, that don't describe every feature on every device. To learn everything about them, you have to spend time digging through the menus and exploring. You just have to.

    And, of course, I'm jaded enough that I know that all these extra features are on the device to begin with because of people like you who always want more more more out of a device. Little computers like this work better when they have fewer features. They have limited processing power and battery life, anyway, and the more extras you enable and use, the worse the performance will be.

    And that's not even considering whether all of those extras are well-implemented. There's a long history of device manufacturers putting something on a device just to have some new feature, but then that feature doesn't really work all that well. Navigation on mtb trails is a good one for these computers. The computer will let you navigate mtb trails like roads, but it's not going to work as well that way. Live Tracking is another. That feature has existed for years, and it doesn't work that well. This is one of those things that is easy enough to learn about if you'd done your research. There are a whole lot of hardware reasons why. And then the software just appears to not work very well, either. The list just goes on.

    I can see the current speed on the map screen of my Edge 520 if I want. I do not, so I do not display it. But I bet your Edge 530 will, too.

    I don't GAF about messages from people while I'm riding. Riding is my "me" time and everybody else can go f*ck themselves if they can't wait until I'm done. My friends and family are aware of this and expect that I'll return messages or calls when I can. I ride in an area with extremely erratic reception and I work jobs where I cannot respond immediately, anyway. My wife's parents don't get this and she has issues with them calling because she won't just put her foot down.

  10. #10
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    Got mine last week and it's acting wonky. doubling the mileage and giving crappy gps data. I'll post up a review in the next week or so.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  11. #11
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    Lots of reviews about defective units on retail websites. I cancelled my order til they sort it out.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Read these:

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/...th-review.html

    The one thing I've always wanted and never got from Garmin was a device where the basic features worked reliably. They always bail on a product before they get it right. The touch screen on the 820 is an abomination. I've had three between buying one, a warranty replacement, and a replacement after breaking one. That's not saying anything about all the bugs. It's very rare I go for a ride and everything works as it should. 520 has plenty of it's own problems. I have one of those too. With previous units I would run down-rev firmware as the final version usually screwed up more things than it fixed.

    With these two new units, they've piled in so many new features I can't imagine them ever working right. None of the simpler previous units ever did.



    DC says the 530 is garmins best unit yet and didn't seem to find any major flaws with it. I picked up a 520 about a month ago and so far it's been perfect but I only use a small portion of it's features.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Lots of reviews about defective units on retail websites. I cancelled my order til they sort it out.
    Any links?
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Any links?

    Go to the REI website and look up the 530. There are a half dozen 1-2 star reviews, one 3 star, and one 5 star.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    2. The live track feature is supposed to send an email every time it starts, it sends an email 50% of the time. I've only used it for 3 days, but 2 of 3 days, the live track webpage didn't work. Rating of F since it doesn't every time. Rating of B when it does work. I'm not sure if incident detection will work if live track isn't working so that concerns me.
    It won't. At least, it didn't the time mine went off randomly and the button presses to cancel it didn't work in the cold. It said the distress message had been sent. It hadn't.

    There seem to be some very broad issues with pretty much all of garmin's units staying connected to android phones. Previously Garmin support blamed my old beat-up android-m phone, and I was tempted to believe them.... but a year later, I just bought a pixel 3... Which so far has improved absolutely nothing about Garmin's phone connection issues.

    As I've mentioned before, my old 520 worked perfectly with livetrack in 2015.

    At least, I think it did... because the 4 years of hardware and software "upgrades" made since then have been so dysfunctional, I'm seriously starting to wonder if I imagined the whole thing.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  16. #16
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    The official Garmin 530 and 830 user forums are a good place to get an idea of what going on with these devices.

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...ing/f/edge-530

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...ing/f/edge-830
    Do the math.

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    does the 830 touch screen work well with normal mtn bike gloves?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitnessgeek View Post
    does the 830 touch screen work well with normal mtn bike gloves?
    Yea - it's ok. I had some issues with not swiping left and right every time but it happened last night without gloves. But overall it's not bad, just not smartphone good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Yea - it's ok. I had some issues with not swiping left and right every time but it happened last night without gloves. But overall it's not bad, just not smartphone good.
    thanks! I was just reading some other comments online and folks were saying it works so long as the glove has some rubber on the tip of the finger. This may be my next bike computer.

  20. #20
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    I think an important note on the touch screen is not to compare it against sensitivity with a smart phone and other mobile devices. Just think about how often your screen would be changing if it was uber sensitive. I believe it was by design that it is less sensitive to avoid accidental screen input.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    The official Garmin 530 and 830 user forums are a good place to get an idea of what going on with these devices.
    Indeed.

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...trava-segments

    So the Strava segment feature they have been advertising since 2015 still doesn't work most of the time.....
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    Indeed.

    https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fit...trava-segments

    So the Strava segment feature they have been advertising since 2015 still doesn't work most of the time.....
    Works fine on my 810, 130 and 935.

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    So i'm looking for a computer that will do GPS on trails as I am starting to plan trips to locations I've never been to, more complicated routes etc. Was hoping that the 530 with the trailforks stuff was going to be the ticket but maybe not? What else (short of riding with my iphone X strapped to my handle bars) should I look at for this.

    J-

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjc155 View Post
    So i'm looking for a computer that will do GPS on trails as I am starting to plan trips to locations I've never been to, more complicated routes etc. Was hoping that the 530 with the trailforks stuff was going to be the ticket but maybe not? What else (short of riding with my iphone X strapped to my handle bars) should I look at for this.

    J-
    I'm slowly getting my 830 to work as I hoped. However, trailforks on the 830 isn't great. It's hard to see or understand the trails unless you zoom in a lot. IMO, an iphone mounted on the bars would be far superior and more useful than the Edge.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Works fine on my 810, 130 and 935.
    I honestly can't remember if it ever worked on my 520....I recall success on a really short segment on a really straight road, and a few failures, but I'm not sure I tried anything much before I lost that head unit.

    On the 520 plus, I'm batting .000 lifetime, including short segments on straight roads.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjc155 View Post
    So i'm looking for a computer that will do GPS on trails as I am starting to plan trips to locations I've never been to, more complicated routes etc. Was hoping that the 530 with the trailforks stuff was going to be the ticket but maybe not? What else (short of riding with my iphone X strapped to my handle bars) should I look at for this.

    J-
    Don't expect any computer to be a magic bullet for trail navigation. For mtb purposes, navigation heavily depends on the quality of the data you're working from, and not all digital data is of the same quality. I've been burned too many times by poor quality digital data that I don't expect much from it. My Garmin contains mostly just topo reference maps and some trail maps.

    I also carry high quality paper maps where available (which means I've spent a pretty penny on them, and have a dedicated map storage area). Beyond that, I also have access to the mtbproject and trailforks apps on my phone. None of the digital maps are reliable enough for me to abandon all the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    I'm slowly getting my 830 to work as I hoped. However, trailforks on the 830 isn't great. It's hard to see or understand the trails unless you zoom in a lot. IMO, an iphone mounted on the bars would be far superior and more useful than the Edge.
    phone on the bars? shoot me now. That's a terrible system for navigating mtb trails.

    Honestly, the thing that is most useful to keep my map consultation time on the trail to a minimum is studying maps at home before I go anywhere. And occasionally a refresher at the trailhead to discuss plans with the group that may or may not involve pulling the map out. It might just be a quick discussion of the route, depending on how familiar the group is with the area.

  27. #27
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    Since I've been dumping on Garmin a fair bit lately, I'll try to say something upbeat:

    Livetrack is now working and auto-starting for the first time in a year, and it's good to have it back. Hopefully future software updates do not undo this.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    Since I've been dumping on Garmin a fair bit lately, I'll try to say something upbeat:

    Livetrack is now working and auto-starting for the first time in a year, and it's good to have it back. Hopefully future software updates do not undo this.
    I'll add that my Edge has been much better about Livetrack starting most of the time, and also the email link working nearly all the time. The day I got it, Garmin must've been having server issues.

    I was able to get Group Track to start with a buddy but it wasn't working well. Wouldn't show him sometimes or update. I'll have to play with that more.

  29. #29
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    ^^^ what's changed? Yesterday my 820 wouldn't connect to my phone until I opened Connect on the phone and tapped the 820 icon at the top of the page. It won't connect on its own. That's what it's been doing for a while.

    Something that should have been working 3+ years ago is finally, maybe, working! Amazing.
    Do the math.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Yesterday my 820 wouldn't connect to my phone until I opened Connect on the phone and tapped the 820 icon at the top of the page. It won't connect on its own. That's what it's been doing for a while.
    That's where I was at with the 520+. Garmin support blamed my crappy old phone, and I recently bought a pixel3 which did the exact same thing....

    ...Until Monday. I am now auto-starting live track, and sending my wife a map that works (not the south Atlantic Ocean). Without even opening the app.

    It's throw-back week at Garmin... livetrack works just like my old 520 used to do with my Blackberry in 2015.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

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    I've only had the 520+ for a few months so take this for what it's worth. 1st bike computer. Also, I've no mt bike time with it (yet). Only road so far.

    On the road, it is pretty awesome. turn by turn (audio as I have a blutooth earpiece) as well as on the device itself. Fantastic.

    I tried group track once (albeit in a hasty 5 min before ride start in parking lot). Didn't get it to work, but maybe I'm just doing something wrong - likely.

    No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that.

    course load is a little slow but I usually load my course before I get to the trailhead, parking lot so this is not an issue (so far) for me.

    I've loaded openstreet maps (thanks DCRM). Awesome! Garmin's base map was upgraded recently and is now also very detailed.

    Again, no time on trail but I do have trailforks loaded and looks to be very easy to use. No need to have cell service (obviously). Just sat's which shouldn't be a problem anywhere.

    I've not used live segments and so can't comment. I am on strava and have my ride auto upload which is nice.

    Battery life is good (so far). Longest ride I've been on is 30 some miles and both device and iphone plenty charge left.

    Never have problem pairing iphone se with garmin conenct. shrug ymmv

    garmin has updated the 520 + so now can pan (albeit a little clunky as have to use buttons) but I'd rather that then f with a touch screen with gloves on.

    mt bike has a remote which allows easy (ier) toggling through the main screens. luv it.

    i'd never consider mounting my iphone on my mt bike for obvious reasons.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta2010 View Post
    ...No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that....
    Edge 705, 520 and 820 can have data fields on the map screen. I'd be surprised if the 520+ can't.
    Do the math.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta2010 View Post

    No, you cant have speed (or any other data) and map on same screen, but I don;t think any device does that.
    The much bigger screen on the 1030 allows you to have two data fields on the map screen. It's quite nice for navigation as there's more space on top to show upcoming directions and how far they are as well as still showing a good chunk of the map. Then again as long as you know which direction to take you don't really need much else, I only use it for the road bike and keep the smaller 520 for the road bikes.

    Never have problem pairing iphone se with garmin conenct. shrug ymmv
    This seems to vary a lot for people as I'm the same as you, no issues connecting my Fenix 5s, 520 or 1030 to my Android phone.

    garmin has updated the 520 + so now can pan (albeit a little clunky as have to use buttons) but I'd rather that then f with a touch screen with gloves on.
    The buttons can be a bit clunky but not only do they work well with gloves they also work well in the rain and mud as well which the touchscreens don't. In particular cancelling the incident detection on the 1030 in the rain can be a real challenge as you have to hold part of the screen for five seconds but it doesn't register continuously so the timer keeps counting down.

    i'd never consider mounting my iphone on my mt bike for obvious reasons.
    Agreed, would much rather have the smaller Garmin on the bars and my phone safely tucked away.

    Good to hear livetrack is working again as that's been my only frustration with Garmin recently.
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  34. #34
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    I just got my 530. Anyone got a good mount for a 35mm mtb hb?

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    I just got my 530. Anyone got a good mount for a 35mm mtb hb?

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I use the the k edge adjustable one. I tend to hit the cap mounted one.
    https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...garmin-mounts/
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I use the the k edge adjustable one. I tend to hit the cap mounted one.
    https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...garmin-mounts/
    Lools good, i have a 35mm stem so we shall see.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Posting another update on my Edge 830:

    1. The livetrack continues to initiate some of the time. Pretty disappointing as I rely on it for incident detection when I ride alone. I'm assuming if livetrack doesn't start, incident detection doesn't work either.

    2. I rode some paved trails with my family tonight and the maps were actually useful!

    3. I picked up the Varia RTL 510 Radar and love it. So far, it's 100% for detecting cars (about 30 cars so far). It also picks up other bikers, some of the time. Here's a video that shows how early it picks up cars. I don't plan to use this on MTB trails, I'll use it for riding to work.

    4. I used my bike alarm feature for the first time. Rode to the Gym and forgot my lock so I left it in the hallway with the alarm on. I set off the alarm intentionally and popped up an alert on my phone.


  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Posting another update on my Edge 830:

    1. The livetrack continues to initiate some of the time.
    Yep, after going 5/5 last week it dropped back to 1/3 over the weekend. I now think that auto-starting livetrack at the same time my phone is switching out of my home wifi to LTE might be a factor in some, but not all,of the failures.


    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    3. I picked up the Varia RTL 510 Radar and love it. So far, it's 100% for detecting cars (about 30 cars so far). It also picks up other bikers, some of the time.
    Mine seemed to have more false positives in the winter when the air was colder, the RTL has settled down now that it's summer. I tend to get the false positives in the same spot every day, and since one of the two is in a location where no car could possible be behind me.... it's annoying me less.

    I think the true value of the RTL is on long road rides on very low traffic roads, when I basically phase out (since I haven't seen a car in 30 minutes), and that beep snaps me back well before the car passes. Unfortunately, I don't do many rural road rides any more these days.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    ... 4. I used my bike alarm feature for the first time....
    It would not be nice to 'accidentally' nudge a bike equipped with one of these parked outside a restroom.

    I have an 820 and between blue tooth randomly not connecting to the phone and/or Livetrack not starting I gave up relying on it. It's nice to see that the new 530 and 830 are carrying on the fine tradition. I use the free Glympse app on my phone. Strava Beacon is another option if you subscribe to the Summit Safety pack at $2/mo.

    Agree Varia can be useful on very low traffic roads. Less so otherwise.
    Do the math.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    Lools good, i have a 35mm stem so we shall see.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I've been really happy with the Barfly 4 for mounting on 35mm bars.
    https://barflybike.com/collections/m.../bar-fly-4-mtb

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Posting another update on my Edge 830:

    1. The livetrack continues to initiate some of the time. Pretty disappointing as I rely on it for incident detection when I ride alone. I'm assuming if livetrack doesn't start, incident detection doesn't work either.
    Incident detection is separate to livetrack so it's possible to have incident detection working without livetrack at least on the 520/1030, I haven't tried the 530/830. I'd recommend testing it out as it's handy anyway to see how it shows on the Edge and crucially how to cancel it before it sends the alert. I accidentally triggered it when I was first using it and didn't manage to cancel it in time which gave my emergency contact a bit of a fright.

    I find the easiest way to trigger it is to get the bike up to full speed and then slam on the brakes, the phone should set off a siren noise and then Edge should show incident detected and give you a 30 second timer to cancel it. On the 1030 you've got to hold your finger on part of the display for five seconds to cancel it, otherwise it sends a text message to your emergency contact advising the person an accident has been detected and giving a Google maps link.

    3. I picked up the Varia RTL 510 Radar and love it. So far, it's 100% for detecting cars (about 30 cars so far). It also picks up other bikers, some of the time. Here's a video that shows how early it picks up cars. I don't plan to use this on MTB trails, I'll use it for riding to work.
    I've had the original radar unit since it was released and it's one of my favourite bike purchases as I find it so handy on the road bike when I'm on quiet roads since it's hard to hear the cars due to the wind noise and might not see a car for hours so now I get a handy little beep not just telling me a car is coming but how fast and how many cars.
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  42. #42
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    Here is an article from DCRainmaker regarding Garmins Software glitches. Your LiveTrack is identified as having been issues for a long time, same as a few folks have mentioned here in the thread.
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/06/...stability.html




    Anybody with the 530 have input about basic function? How are the buttons working -reviews state they are faulty. Ya'll have any issues with the bottons and menus. Not considering the Live track type of things that are known to be unreliable.

    Waiting to get the 530 but reviews make me think a sale priced 520 would be better.

    Thanks

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Here is an article from DCRainmaker regarding Garmins Software glitches. Your LiveTrack is identified as having been issues for a long time, same as a few folks have mentioned here in the thread.
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/06/...stability.html




    Anybody with the 530 have input about basic function? How are the buttons working -reviews state they are faulty. Ya'll have any issues with the bottons and menus. Not considering the Live track type of things that are known to be unreliable.

    Waiting to get the 530 but reviews make me think a sale priced 520 would be better.

    Thanks
    I had a 530 and during my brief use, the buttons worked well.

  44. #44
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    Yeah Garmin Australia had a post on their facebook asking what they could do better/what would people like to see for their software, rekkon that was a direct result of DC's post.

    In other news, my 1000 decide to give up the ghost on the weekend, it had been getting a bit flaky,had to do a reset about a month ago, but it stopped connecting to anything and then the on/off button broke. Figure ~5 years of lots of use it did well. But since I jsut spent a bunch of money on other junk I didn't need couldn't quite afford to replace it with a 1030, so went for the 530.
    So far, seems to work well (although the buttons do seem to occasionally miss, so when youre trying to go up/down menus, nothing, then when you press again it goes 2 spots.
    Otherwise works as advertised.... but OMG its SO small! I can barley see it (so far only on road rides)... and I don't care what people say, I want my touchscreen back, not having it is sucktastic. Figure I'll use it for a bit, then donate the the GF's tri bike and buy a 1030 when I have the spare cash.
    All the gear and no idea.

  45. #45
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    My celebration of livetrack's return was definitely premature.

    The 520+ hasn't even tried to auto-start on the last three rides, and when I went for a run on the weekend, my running watch gave me a "livetrack failed" message 7 km in, even though the 520+ is set as the livetrack device and the watch isn't.

    The 520+ also got massively confused this morning trying to switch from one bike sensor to another and I had to turn it off/on, something that has never happened before.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Yeah Garmin Australia had a post on their facebook asking what they could do better/what would people like to see for their software, rekkon that was a direct result of DC's post.

    In other news, my 1000 decide to give up the ghost on the weekend, it had been getting a bit flaky,had to do a reset about a month ago, but it stopped connecting to anything and then the on/off button broke. Figure ~5 years of lots of use it did well. But since I jsut spent a bunch of money on other junk I didn't need couldn't quite afford to replace it with a 1030, so went for the 530.
    So far, seems to work well (although the buttons do seem to occasionally miss, so when youre trying to go up/down menus, nothing, then when you press again it goes 2 spots.
    Otherwise works as advertised.... but OMG its SO small! I can barley see it (so far only on road rides)... and I don't care what people say, I want my touchscreen back, not having it is sucktastic. Figure I'll use it for a bit, then donate the the GF's tri bike and buy a 1030 when I have the spare cash.
    My eyes aren't perfect anymore.
    When you say you can't see the screen, do you mean when you're moving and trying to see how fast you are going you can't see the screen, or do you mean sitting in the parking lot going through menus you can't see the screen?

    I have a Cateye Enduro8 on one of the bikes. I can see the large number but can't make out the smaller numbers too well if it's not bright. When I ride, I don't care. I'm interested in the data to record, not the data to read live (most of the time). I don't intend to read the screen while riding unless it's the easier stuff and I'm curious of my current speed on a pedaly single track that doesn't require 90% focus.

    The 530 and 830 are the same size, touch screen wouldn't do much to improve visibility aside from the screen actually slightly larger -but the 1000 series would be bigger. I don't feel a device that large would be appropriate (for me) on a MTB. I'm not sure I want to pony up an extra hundred bucks for just a gain of touch screen. If the 830 was $50 more than the 530 I'd consider it. Considering I'm also looking at 2 speed sensors, and perhaps a cadence sensor. There is a configuration of bundles I priced out that is cheapest for all the goodies. Probably no cadence sensor, but it's in one of the bundle packs.

  47. #47
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    I^ I just find it difficult to read (especially at 5 am when it's -3), I probably need a new prescription, heck probably bi-focals these days!. Been using a 1000 for the last ~5 years, run it with 10 fields/screen (well Di2 plus 9 on the road) I think 8 on the mtb (less when racing).
    I'm probably not your normal user (I even run out front mounts on the mtb, shock horror!). I really find that I data whore on the road, less on the mtb, keeps me occupied on the boring bits.
    I really prefer, big and touchscreen, i could live without, but I'd rather have them.
    All the gear and no idea.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    I^ I just find it difficult to read (especially at 5 am when it's -3), I probably need a new prescription, heck probably bi-focals these days!. Been using a 1000 for the last ~5 years, run it with 10 fields/screen (well Di2 plus 9 on the road) I think 8 on the mtb (less when racing).
    I'm probably not your normal user (I even run out front mounts on the mtb, shock horror!). I really find that I data whore on the road, less on the mtb, keeps me occupied on the boring bits.
    I really prefer, big and touchscreen, i could live without, but I'd rather have them.
    Tried sending the 1000 back to Garmin to be refurbished?
    I've done it with a Zumo motorbike gps and a Forerunner 620 watch. Each cost about $100 to replace.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Tried sending the 1000 back to Garmin to be refurbished?
    I've done it with a Zumo motorbike gps and a Forerunner 620 watch. Each cost about $100 to replace.
    Yeah thought about it...but then...I don't have the excuse to buy new crap!
    All the gear and no idea.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    ...When I ride, I don't care. I'm interested in the data to record, not the data to read live (most of the time). I don't intend to read the screen while riding unless it's the easier stuff and I'm curious of my current speed on a pedaly single track that doesn't require 90% focus...
    Seems like a Garmin Edge 25 would meet your requirements in a small and inexpensive package. It'll record your ride data and display your speed in large easy to see numerals.
    Do the math.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Seems like a Garmin Edge 25 would meet your requirements in a small and inexpensive package. It'll record your ride data and display your speed in large easy to see numerals.
    except it records terrible data owing to the fact that it won't do 1sec recording, pretty sure, unless you're using a HRM. maybe not at all. it's been awhile since I've seen one.

  52. #52
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    ^^^ that could well be. I've used Edge (705, 500, 520 820) units since 2010, never have set 1 sec recording, and have not found the tracking consequentially lacking. I do use wheel sensors though, and most rides I'm using a HRM if that's relevant.
    Do the math.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^^^ that could well be. I've used Edge (705, 500, 520 820) units since 2010, never have set 1 sec recording, and have not found the tracking consequentially lacking. I do use wheel sensors though, and most rides I'm using a HRM if that's relevant.
    Depends on what you ride. IME, Garmin's "smart recording" is absolute GARBAGE on twisty trail networks. Living in the eastern half of the country, those are practically unavoidable. They're a bit less common where I live now in Western NC, but there are enough around still that I'm not willing to give up 1sec recording for anything.

    It tends to get reasonably close with distances, but the actual map of the track is where it becomes obvious that the data is a hot mess. Years ago, I experimented with this and would frequently get the track crossing over itself and deviating farther from the path I actually rode than I'd get from 1sec recording. Corners would get heavily trimmed and then distance would get added back in with extra drift on straight sections.

    It's a totally different scenario for other activities. I think part of the problem is the speed you're traveling on a bike, on top of the changes in direction. On my handheld (Oregon 450t), I leave it on smart recording. Smart recording works great when I'm hiking. The data from that winds up WAY better than it does when I'm riding, regardless of the path of travel. So some part of it is definitely also speed related. On the bike, I won't touch it.

    FWIW, I don't think most of the other devices default to 1sec recording unless you use a power meter. Maybe they will for a HRM, though.

  54. #54
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    No, I'm definitely a numbers geek. The more data the better -just don't need it instantaneously while on the move.
    I was lagging on the purchase of a 520+ then the 530 was released (I didn't know there was one on the way). I was all set to go but realized it hadn't released yet. Then the consumer review pages made lots of mention of poor back button functionality.

    I'd hate to get an 830 just for slight screen increase and a 1030 sounds unreasonably large for a MTB.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Depends on what you ride. IME, Garmin's "smart recording" is absolute GARBAGE on twisty trail networks. Living in the eastern half of the country...
    That'd be 95% of my rides. Twisty East coast. My tracks might clip a corner here or there, but nothing egregious.
    Do the math.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    That'd be 95% of my rides. Twisty East coast. My tracks might clip a corner here or there, but nothing egregious.
    maybe you have different criteria than I do for what constitutes reasonable quality data, or maybe Garmin has quietly improved the accuracy of their "smart" recording.

    This is the only one I could track down where I was certain I used smart recording. But I know I had others, longer ago, but that was before I put descriptions or titles on my rides for future reference. It was also back when I saved all my rides on my computer in topofusion and it's really hard to distinguish now which rides used smart recording vs 1sec.

    I'm not sure if smart recording had anything to do with the whole track being shifted or not, but that particular GPS (Forerunner 310XT) did not record that way before or after this ride at that location. That said, if you compare the yellow trails on the basemap (pretty accurate, though not perfect) to my red track, you see that for almost all of the tight turns, the track meets or crosses itself. And this one isn't as bad of an example as some of the older ones I have. Those are the more telling occasions.

    Garmin Edge 530 and 830 2019-garmin_smart_recording.png

    My evidence may not be as good as you'd like to see, but it's the best I can come up with. It was mostly my experience with smart recording during the time of 2011-2015 or so that solidified my opinion that it sucks. I gave up trying after that. Somewhere in there I've got tracks from an Edge 705, but not very many. I didn't keep that device for very long.

  57. #57
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    First rule of Fight Club: “Don’t talk about Fight Club.”

    First rule of Garmin Edge: “Don’t ever use ‘Smart Recording.’”
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  58. #58
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    I got the 830 on Monday. I had been using an 820 on the trail, and I use a 1000 on the road. I had an 810 before it, an 800 and a 500. FWIW I ride about 5,000 miles a year, mostly trail, so I use these things a shitload.

    Let me say up front that I think the 820 is the worst device that Garmin makes, so it was a low bar, but the 830 fixes almost everything I couldn't stand about the 820. I loved my 810 and regretted selling it on after a short time with the 820, but I stuck it out for a season...

    I've only done a handful of rides on the 830 and so far so good. The MTB metrics are pretty cool (albeit useless) but I will say that the jump-o-meter is going to get me in trouble. I was able to eBay my 820 for $250 so it only cost me a $150 to move up to the 830 and I'm really glad I did. The 820 is trash but so far the 830 is pretty solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    The one thing I've always wanted and never got from Garmin was a device where the basic features worked reliably. They always bail on a product before they get it right. The touch screen on the 820 is an abomination. I've had three between buying one, a warranty replacement, and a replacement after breaking one. That's not saying anything about all the bugs.

    I agree with this 10000%. That's the first thing I noticed about the 830 - the touchscreen works extremely well, even with gloves on. The 820 screen is a laggy, unresponsive POS. It seems to have two settings, "activate when looked at" or "poke the shit out of it, hope for the best". It was beyond frustrating on the trail when you're just trying to check a map on a humid day when mosquitoes are ruthless. How I made it a season without throwing that thing into the woods is a mystery to me.

    I don't use the 1000 for MTB because it's just too big, but I still think it's the best cycling GPS that garmin makes. I had a 1030 for a while and actually went through three of them - they kept bricking on me. The 1000 is (knock on wood) super reliable like my 810 was, and I'm not wild about the new logic/feel of the 820/1030.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I got the 830 on Monday. I had been using an 820 on the trail, and I use a 1000 on the road. I had an 810 before it, an 800 and a 500. FWIW I ride about 5,000 miles a year, mostly trail, so I use these things a shitload.

    Let me say up front that I think the 820 is the worst device that Garmin makes, so it was a low bar, but the 830 fixes almost everything I couldn't stand about the 820. I loved my 810 and regretted selling it on after a short time with the 820, but I stuck it out for a season...

    I've only done a handful of rides on the 830 and so far so good. The MTB metrics are pretty cool (albeit useless) but I will say that the jump-o-meter is going to get me in trouble. I was able to eBay my 820 for $250 so it only cost me a $150 to move up to the 830 and I'm really glad I did. The 820 is trash but so far the 830 is pretty solid.




    I agree with this 10000%. That's the first thing I noticed about the 830 - the touchscreen works extremely well, even with gloves on. The 820 screen is a laggy, unresponsive POS. It seems to have two settings, "activate when looked at" or "poke the shit out of it, hope for the best". It was beyond frustrating on the trail when you're just trying to check a map on a humid day when mosquitoes are ruthless. How I made it a season without throwing that thing into the woods is a mystery to me.

    I don't use the 1000 for MTB because it's just too big, but I still think it's the best cycling GPS that garmin makes. I had a 1030 for a while and actually went through three of them - they kept bricking on me. The 1000 is (knock on wood) super reliable like my 810 was, and I'm not wild about the new logic/feel of the 820/1030.
    Thanks for that, sounds like some good sound experienced use.
    You feel it's easily worth the $100 extra for the 830 vs 530?

    You make a good point about the difficulty of use while on a ride and frustrated due to conditions, like a mosquito swarm!

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    ...I'm not sure if smart recording had anything to do with the whole track being shifted or not, but that particular GPS (Forerunner 310XT) did not record that way before or after this ride at that location...
    We are digressing a bit here, but I guess if there was a bug in the Smart recording algorithm, it might shift a track like that, though it's not something I've experienced. Presumably, smart recording decides on the number of coordinate points to save based on the immediate tortuousness of the track. So, basically, you get many fewer data points on relative straight or gently curved track segments and more when things get jiggy. The end result in my experience has been some clipping of corners, or seeing some portions of a curved track being represented by connected straight segments, which for me are purely cosmetic concerns. I'm not at all arguing against using 1 sec recording. I'm just mentioning that for my purposes, smart recording has been acceptable. Going back to my suggestion of using a Edge 25, which started this, its lack of one second recording is something that should be considered, but shouldn't necessarily disqualify it, IMO.
    Do the math.

  61. #61
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    hey Seventh-777, quick question on the 830 screen: what happens when you wipe sweat off the screen with your gloved hand?
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    The 820 screen is a laggy, unresponsive POS. It seems to have two settings, "activate when looked at" or "poke the shit out of it, hope for the best". It was beyond frustrating on the trail when you're just trying to check a map on a humid day when mosquitoes are ruthless. How I made it a season without throwing that thing into the woods is a mystery to me.
    This is the most hilarious description of the touchscreen on the Edge 820 that I've seen. I used an Oregon 450 on the bike for a number of years, when I was really unimpressed with the cycling models Garmin was releasing at the time. The touchscreen on that one worked fairly reliably, even if it wasn't the most whiz-bang type of touchscreen out there. Swiping was just a suggestion. Taps worked fine, though. I still like a touchscreen for a handheld device, but I grew to dislike it on the bike.

    Fast forward to today, and the drive for super responsive touchscreens in general has resulted in an enormous mixed bag. Performance of my phone screens has continued to keep me away from them on my bike computer. The Samsung Galaxy S5 screen was the worst. I'd even say it was worse than the worst descriptions of the Edge 820 I've read. It was so bad that if you activated a screen that was sweaty, the only way to stop the demon possession was to remove the battery. It'd fill up the memory with porn, use up all your data, change the default language to Vietnamese, text 10 people, and download 50 apps because you pulled it out of your pocket. My current LG V20 doesn't go Poltergeist on me, but it's still hard to use when it's sweaty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Going back to my suggestion of using a Edge 25, which started this, its lack of one second recording is something that should be considered, but shouldn't necessarily disqualify it, IMO.
    I don't think it's digressing too much. I've had enough issues with it that I'll never buy a receiver that doesn't offer me the ability to use 1sec recording as a setting, and I won't recommend one to anyone who mountain bikes, either. Whether I or anyone else chooses to use the 1sec recording option is another issue altogether. But I remember when the Edge 500 came out and people were pissed that it didn't allow 1sec recording. There was enough uproar about it that Garmin added it through a firmware update. I never used that model, but the uproar was occurring at around the time I experienced my own issues with the smart recording setting on other models of GPS.

    The only sort of use scenario where I'd recommend an Edge 25 would be to a beginner road rider who might want to record HR and cadence, but isn't doing actual training, or to someone who's riding greenways and such. But, it's a hard sell when the data quality of that device wasn't really any better than what you'd get from a phone app that's free.

    For me, map accuracy isn't simply a cosmetic thing. It's honestly THE reason that I use a GPS bike computer instead of a simple $25 cyclocomputer. If the device can't record or even display my position accurately, it's a non-starter. Fortunately, there are plenty of devices on the market now (most not sold by Garmin) that cost about the same as the old Edge 25 did, but are massively better devices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Thanks for that, sounds like some good sound experienced use.
    You feel it's easily worth the $100 extra for the 830 vs 530?
    I think it is, yeah. I haven't really dug into the details of the 530 but as I understand it the main differences on the 830 are the touchscreen adn the fact that it can route like a "normal" GPS with POIs and whatnot. I don't care about the routing since I don't use mine on the road, but I do like the touchscreen and think it's worth it. Being able to quickly swipe the screen instead of fiddling w/buttons when I just want a quick map check is worth it to me, especially with gloves on and extra-especially with gloves on in the winter.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    hey Seventh-777, quick question on the 830 screen: what happens when you wipe sweat off the screen with your gloved hand?
    I actually don't know yet, since it's been reasonably dry up here but I assume it'll swap screens. I'll report back if it's weird about it at all.
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  64. #64
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    ^^^I recommend caution before deciding on the touch screen. The 830 is supposedly improved, but I have an 820 (had 3 in total) and the touch screen totally sux. It's very erratic, sometimes responding but more often not. Response it slow as well. It's basically unusable while in motion. Any water or sweat makes it unusable and the device goes crazy responding to drops running around on the display. I got a 520 just so I would have buttons instead. Like I said, the 830 is supposed to be better, but I'd check it out first.
    Do the math.

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    Yep that’s my fear because I’d be using it for road and mountain and when riding dirt the position of the computer on the stem is directly in the sweat line. Not a problem on the road because the computer is out front beyond the bars. (Not a good idea to the same on a mountain bike.)
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

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    I think I'm going to put the purchase on hold AGAIN. I'm to a point where I wanted to use it for an upcoming trip but aside from Garmin, have only found one source that has them in stock (the computer itself is but no speed sensors). Now there isn't much time to get it sorted out in time for a trip.

    Need to figure out what the return policy is before a retail store purchase so as to avoid a store credit.

    Darn.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I do like the touchscreen and think it's worth it. Being able to quickly swipe the screen instead of fiddling w/buttons when I just want a quick map check is worth it to me, especially with gloves on and extra-especially with gloves on in the winter.
    Interesting. I find the buttons for screen switching (Edge 520) do great for the purpose with minimal fuss. The point where I feel a lack of a touchscreen hinders device function is the fact that zooming the map requires extra button presses and panning the map just isn't an option. But just to switch screens for a quick check? Nah, the buttons aren't an issue at all.

    Also interesting about your assessment of winter use. That's when I find physical buttons to be most useful. While I've found some gloves to sorta work with touchscreens, I've found that the bulkier they are, the less reliable that gets (even with resistive touchscreens) and I don't want to make touchscreen functionality ANOTHER criteria for choosing gloves. It's already enough of a pain for me, because I have longish thumbs and many gloves have thumbs that are too short (so I then get cold spots).

    It is disappointing to hear that people are having problems with the buttons on the Edge 530, though. That's the sort of thing that firmware updates can't fix. I don't think I'd buy one of those, either.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Interesting. I find the buttons for screen switching (Edge 520) do great for the purpose with minimal fuss. The point where I feel a lack of a touchscreen hinders device function is the fact that zooming the map requires extra button presses and panning the map just isn't an option. But just to switch screens for a quick check? Nah, the buttons aren't an issue at all.

    Also interesting about your assessment of winter use. That's when I find physical buttons to be most useful. While I've found some gloves to sorta work with touchscreens, I've found that the bulkier they are, the less reliable that gets (even with resistive touchscreens) and I don't want to make touchscreen functionality ANOTHER criteria for choosing gloves. It's already enough of a pain for me, because I have longish thumbs and many gloves have thumbs that are too short (so I then get cold spots).

    It is disappointing to hear that people are having problems with the buttons on the Edge 530, though. That's the sort of thing that firmware updates can't fix. I don't think I'd buy one of those, either.
    I'd like both, and I don't know why they don't just go that route. Having a button in the middle on either side for left/right would be great. I'm just used to the touchscreen, and a quick flick across the screen is (to me, anyway) easier than hunting for buttons but it's really a moot point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I'd like both, and I don't know why they don't just go that route. Having a button in the middle on either side for left/right would be great. I'm just used to the touchscreen, and a quick flick across the screen is (to me, anyway) easier than hunting for buttons but it's really a moot point.
    I could go with a device that has both a touchscreen and physical buttons if I could turn the touchscreen completely off when I don't want it and let me enable it for those occasions where I might want to zoom/pan the map or type in text.

    It's also worth noting that the Edge Remote gives even quicker access to page through screens.

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/pn/010-12094-10

    I suppose a certain level of that functionality might be obtainable through the use of a touchscreen model and the edge remote. Ala the "mountain bike bundle". The question becomes whether the touchscreen on the Edge 830 can be completely disabled and how easy it is to turn it on/off.

    My Oregon 450 has some screen protection functionality, but it doesn't actually turn the touchscreen off. It just adds another tap before you can start using it. I don't actually like that function. It only sortof does what I want, and doesn't do it as well as I'd like (a long touch on the screen such as might occur accidentally, for example).

    If the device had a full selection of physical buttons AND a touchscreen, you could turn the touchscreen off/on by pressing 2 different buttons, for example.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I could go with a device that has both a touchscreen and physical buttons if I could turn the touchscreen completely off when I don't want it and let me enable it for those occasions where I might want to zoom/pan the map or type in text.

    It's also worth noting that the Edge Remote gives even quicker access to page through screens.

    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/pn/010-12094-10
    I have one of those on my gravel bike, it works great. I had one on my roadie as well, but now my Di2 shifters swap the pages (which is extra snazzy). I have the remote mounted on my hoods on the gravel sled (cannondale slate). I think it would just be in the way on flat MTB bars, but I'm sure people find something that works for them.

    I suppose a certain level of that functionality might be obtainable through the use of a touchscreen model and the edge remote. Ala the "mountain bike bundle". The question becomes whether the touchscreen on the Edge 830 can be completely disabled and how easy it is to turn it on/off.

    My Oregon 450 has some screen protection functionality, but it doesn't actually turn the touchscreen off. It just adds another tap before you can start using it. I don't actually like that function. It only sortof does what I want, and doesn't do it as well as I'd like (a long touch on the screen such as might occur accidentally, for example).

    If the device had a full selection of physical buttons AND a touchscreen, you could turn the touchscreen off/on by pressing 2 different buttons, for example.
    Agreed. I wouldn't bother disabling it w/the remote but it would be nice to have the option anyway. I have a feeling that Garmin doesn't really give much of a shit about their consumer cycling stuff to be honest. I think their focus is on commercial fishing and aviation, and we just get the B-Team when it comes to our hardware. Their firmware QA team is awful, their forums are a wasteland and they just revamped them and broke every google link into them because they didn't bother with a simple server-side redirect. Little shit like that makes me think that the guys working on our $400 GPS units are interns, and they have their "real" team working on 6-figure fishing units.

    I've seen some great suggestions go by the wayside with them and honestly I'd just be happy if all of the currently advertised features worked all the time (like Lone Rager said early in this thread).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I have a feeling that Garmin doesn't really give much of a shit about their consumer cycling stuff to be honest. I think their focus is on commercial fishing and aviation, and we just get the B-Team when it comes to our hardware. Their firmware QA team is awful, their forums are a wasteland and they just revamped them and broke every google link into them because they didn't bother with a simple server-side redirect. Little shit like that makes me think that the guys working on our $400 GPS units are interns, and they have their "real" team working on 6-figure fishing units.

    I've seen some great suggestions go by the wayside with them and honestly I'd just be happy if all of the currently advertised features worked all the time (like Lone Rager said early in this thread).
    I don't think you're terribly off base here. They've really screwed up a number of times over the years, and it seems to fall into a couple categories. One, the old "let the customers be the testers" philosophy where it seems like their own product testers really aren't testing the devices very well and the early adopters wind up being the people to find all the bugs. The second one being that they've utterly failed to do their market research and release a device with a baffling set of "features" (or, limitations) that nobody wants, or at least isn't willing to pay what Garmin's asking for them. I'm not sure really where to put the stuff that's been "available" for years, yet barely functional (or completely nonfunctional).

    I'm going to bet that within the next year, somebody releases a computer with a feature set that'll pull me away from Garmin. Both Wahoo and Lezyne are close. Speaking of Wahoo, I see that Wahoo has dumped some cash into some kind of advertising deal with Strava, where people using Wahoo computers get special ads and special maps on Strava. It looks like a bunch of my friends are migrating over to Wahoo already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I'm going to bet that within the next year, somebody releases a computer with a feature set that'll pull me away from Garmin. Both Wahoo and Lezyne are close. Speaking of Wahoo, I see that Wahoo has dumped some cash into some kind of advertising deal with Strava, where people using Wahoo computers get special ads and special maps on Strava. It looks like a bunch of my friends are migrating over to Wahoo already.
    I bought both the Element and the Element Bolt earlier this season, hoping to be blown away by an ultra-reliable device that would make me stop giving Garmin my money. I'm not a huge fan of how reliant they are on a connection to your phone, but given the hype about them everywhere I rolled the dice. (To be fair, it was the Amazon Prime dice which are risk free, haha.)

    I was completely underwhelmed. I could get by with the hardware feeling so cheap and plastic-y compared to the Garmin stuff, but I just couldn't justify spending $300 on a unit in 2019 that didn't have a color screen. I think they touted it as a "high contrast LCD for better battery life" or some such nonsense. When the first one showed up, I actually didn't even realize it was black and white only - it didn't occur to me to even check if it was color, I just assumed that it was. I've done a bunch of 12+ hour endurance races on a single charge of my 810 and 1000s, so battery life has never been an issue for me with the Edges anyway.

    They have a new color unit out this year (the Roam). It's hard to avoid all the hype and I'm definitely still curious about them. If the 830 was shitty, I'd almost certainly have returned it and given the Wahoo a shot but after 6 rides with the Garmin I'm yet to (knock on wood) run into any of the dozens of things I hated about the 820.

    I will say that while I don't like their GPS units, I have a Kickr and it's been fantastic. Their customer service is excellent too - I bought a Kickr Climb (the $700 front wheel replacement for the trainer that simulates grades) that died on me after 6 months. They refunded me with zero hassle/nonsense and offered me a discount on another one down the line if I want to pick up another. That's rare these days, Garmin would tell me to send it in to them so that I could buy a refurbished unit for the same price...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seventh-777 View Post
    I bought both the Element and the Element Bolt earlier this season, hoping to be blown away by an ultra-reliable device that would make me stop giving Garmin my money. I'm not a huge fan of how reliant they are on a connection to your phone, but given the hype about them everywhere I rolled the dice. (To be fair, it was the Amazon Prime dice which are risk free, haha.)

    I was completely underwhelmed. I could get by with the hardware feeling so cheap and plastic-y compared to the Garmin stuff, but I just couldn't justify spending $300 on a unit in 2019 that didn't have a color screen. I think they touted it as a "high contrast LCD for better battery life" or some such nonsense. When the first one showed up, I actually didn't even realize it was black and white only - it didn't occur to me to even check if it was color, I just assumed that it was. I've done a bunch of 12+ hour endurance races on a single charge of my 810 and 1000s, so battery life has never been an issue for me with the Edges anyway.

    They have a new color unit out this year (the Roam). It's hard to avoid all the hype and I'm definitely still curious about them. If the 830 was shitty, I'd almost certainly have returned it and given the Wahoo a shot but after 6 rides with the Garmin I'm yet to (knock on wood) run into any of the dozens of things I hated about the 820.

    I will say that while I don't like their GPS units, I have a Kickr and it's been fantastic. Their customer service is excellent too - I bought a Kickr Climb (the $700 front wheel replacement for the trainer that simulates grades) that died on me after 6 months. They refunded me with zero hassle/nonsense and offered me a discount on another one down the line if I want to pick up another. That's rare these days, Garmin would tell me to send it in to them so that I could buy a refurbished unit for the same price...
    I am not asking to be blown away. I just want reliable, with better battery life than what Garmin has been offering.

    I like the idea of using phones for setup, but no experience with wahoo's implementation. I don't really even care about a rich color screen, in all honesty. A few colors for a map screen, but too many makes it hard to see.

    The big thing most garmin competitors are missing are maps that are good for mtb. I like how there are lots of free sources available for garmins, and how it's possible to make my own. Nobody else offers that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I am not asking to be blown away. I just want reliable, with better battery life than what Garmin has been offering.

    I like the idea of using phones for setup, but no experience with wahoo's implementation. I don't really even care about a rich color screen, in all honesty. A few colors for a map screen, but too many makes it hard to see.

    The big thing most garmin competitors are missing are maps that are good for mtb. I like how there are lots of free sources available for garmins, and how it's possible to make my own. Nobody else offers that.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    I found trailforks very useful with my 530 .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxdagr8t View Post
    I found trailforks very useful with my 530 .

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I get the maps I want from Garmin's devices without trailforks.

    Not so with other brands.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Seems like a Garmin Edge 25 would meet your requirements in a small and inexpensive package. It'll record your ride data and display your speed in large easy to see numerals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    except it records terrible data owing to the fact that it won't do 1sec recording, pretty sure, unless you're using a HRM. maybe not at all. it's been awhile since I've seen one.
    And it's accuracy(Edge25) is measured in miles, not in ft.

    Automatic recording only makes sense when you have a very good reception and accurate position.
    The Edges (all) don't have that, because of the microscopic build in antenna, but the 20 and 25 were the worst ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thasingletrackmastah View Post
    And it's accuracy(Edge25) is measured in miles, not in ft.

    Automatic recording only makes sense when you have a very good reception and accurate position.
    The Edges (all) don't have that, because of the microscopic build in antenna, but the 20 and 25 were the worst ever.
    lol. yeah, antenna size is part of it. and is part of why many phones produce crap locations when they have to rely 100% on the GPS (no cell tower triangulation to augment poor gps reception).

    but I honestly think there's something specific about "smart" recording because comparing recording algorithms on the SAME device generates some pretty major differences in accuracy.

    There was a time when Garmin advertised the antenna their devices used the way they used to advertise the exact brand/model of GPS processor they used. Neither of which they do anymore. Nor does any cell phone manufacturer I'm aware of.

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