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  1. #1
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    intergrated headset?? WTF!!!

    working at a bike shop over summer, but i would never pay for a chris king set unless its a real deal. now my boss is an avid MTN biker, and goes thru new bikes and parts on a bi-yearly basis. anyways, he had some freebies for me and one of them was a chris king headset. now that red headset would match perfectly with my marzo fork, but noooo, incredibly giant made their frames with intergrated headsets...i mean even a huffy from walmart can have a king set put on....now i got a useless king set. just my rant...

  2. #2
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    Giant actually uses a Zero-stack internal headset. Originally designed by Cane Creek.
    I personally believe it offers many advantages over a conventional headset - mainly the very low stack height, and the ability to alter head angle with an external lower cup, if you want to. More set-up options, if you need them.

    The FSA head sets that come stock on the higher end Giants are excellent, using good quality sealed cartridge bearings.

    I'll go out on a limb and say that I believe FSA headsets are equal to, and better than comparable King headsets.

    I'm guessing the reason you'll never see a Zero-stack internal headset from King, is because they had/have their own internal headset design, the Perdido, and they have too much pride to pay for someone elses design (Cane Creek.)

    So sell that freebie king headset, and get some stuff that will make a difference, like tires or what-not

  3. #3
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    Perdido is well, lost...

    Quote Originally Posted by deoreo
    Giant actually uses a Zero-stack internal headset. Originally designed by Cane Creek.
    I personally believe it offers many advantages over a conventional headset - mainly the very low stack height, and the ability to alter head angle with an external lower cup, if you want to. More set-up options, if you need them.

    The FSA head sets that come stock on the higher end Giants are excellent, using good quality sealed cartridge bearings.

    I'll go out on a limb and say that I believe FSA headsets are equal to, and better than comparable King headsets.

    I'm guessing the reason you'll never see a Zero-stack internal headset from King, is because they had/have their own internal headset design, the Perdido, and they have too much pride to pay for someone elses design (Cane Creek.)

    So sell that freebie king headset, and get some stuff that will make a difference, like tires or what-not
    True that. I totally hear the frustration with not being able to use the King headset but the Zero Stack is pretty cool. It's important to point out that not all "integrated" headsets are the same either. King has their own standard (as mentioned - on a side note I have never seen one or even heard of a bike that the King Perdido is compatible with...?), as does Campy and I believe there are a few others. None of them really compare to the execution of the Zero Stack though; it's really well designed. Anyway, hang on to the King because chances are you'll probably have another bike some day that you can hang it on...

  4. #4
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    I have no problems with the Zero-Stack. Had it for about 3 years now and its still running smooth. (Just took it apart last week to regrease it, and bearings were smooth still.) Personally I dont see why everyone needs to get King HS. They last, true, but other HS will last, as long as you take care of it.
    Keep Pedaling

  5. #5
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    king is just bling in my humble opinying

  6. #6
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    I think the ZS internal headsets are so much better than conventional designs. They're so easy to service and are very light weight. Chris King just talks poop because there's a better design than theirs and they're stuck in the 1990's. Internal headsets and 1.5" head tubes are the direction manufacturers should be heading.

  7. #7
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    Just to add a couple of points...

    I believe King finally shelved the Perdido because they couldn't get an OEM customer.

    King's only beef with Zero Stack is the lack of precision tolerance in the head tube diameter. Hence, Perdido was just slightly oversized an itsy-bitsy amount (compared to ZS), so they could get exactly the tolerance they wanted. However, any bike shop wishing to perform this ZS to Perdido conversion would then have to purchase a special cutter to ream out the head tube, and, well, you can guess how that went over.

    So King wisely held off on releasing Perdido until a major frame builder would spec it on their bike, and that never happened.

    Oh well, as the others have pointed out (and as King point out in their own online headset guide), Zero Stack is superior to truly "Integrated" headsets, and on par with any conventional threadless design.

    But the real reason to salute Zero Stack: Fat head tubes = increased weldable diameter. That stiff, fat 'ol aluminum down tube has to butt against something, and a fat head tube is better than a thin one. This saves a bunch of costs since the manufacturer doesn't have to go through a special, costly process to deform the downtube to fit something skinny (take a look at Specialized's nifty hydroformed tubing and you'll see what I'm talking about).

    Further, a couple of frame builders I've spoken to who use ZS headsets (specifically Giant and Iron Horse) tell me that their warranty claims for ovalized head tubes have practically stopped, after the switch to ZS headsets. Right on!
    speedub.nate
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  8. #8
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    Forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between intergrated and zero stack?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benno
    Forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between intergrated and zero stack?
    Zero stack headsets are what Giant uses for the higher end models (Anthem, Trance, Reign, XTC). The headset has cups that are pressed into the head tube and then the bearings sit in those cups. They are called zero stack because since the bearings rest in the head tube the only thing that sticks up above the head tube is the dust caps so they have a very low stack height as opposed to conventional headsets.

    Integrated headsets work in a similar way except that the head tubes are machined in such a way that the bearings sit directly in the head tube with no bearing cups. This is generally more expensive for manufacturers because extremely tight clearances have to be observed.

    Both designs offer very light weight and easy serviceablity.
    2006 Giant Trance 1

  10. #10
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    They also use them in their lower end lines. My 05 Iguana had one, I believe it was marked Aheadset and manufactured by Cane Creek.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberFly

    Both designs offer ... easy serviceablity.
    I'll have to disagree with you on that point.

    The problem with integrated is that, should there develop sufficient play between the bearing and the head tube, it is somewhat easy for the bearing to ovalize the head tube with nothing to be done to service it.

    For that reason, integrated got a bad rap early on and is found on only a few mountain bike frames. My personal feeling is the standard is best left to road bikes.

    Zero Stack (which, stupidly, Giant still refers to as "integrated" in their literature), is offered by many mountain bike frame manufacturers and is essentially a modified version of a standard threadless headset, and are as easy to service and/or replace as a standard threadless headset.
    speedub.nate
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  12. #12
    Ride 26W Or Die Hippie!!!
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    zero stack is way better, easier to work with, stronger, you dont have to have a million dollars in park tools to change them out, did i say its stronger........

  13. #13
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    ZS headsets can't be retrofitted to the older designs can they? I'm in need of a 17mm stack height headset and most are 29+mm.
    Any ideas?

  14. #14
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    Giant do internal spacers

    Quote Originally Posted by jx0shawn
    ZS headsets can't be retrofitted to the older designs can they? I'm in need of a 17mm stack height headset and most are 29+mm.
    Any ideas?

    I have fitted a standard headset to my Reign useing giant internal spacers that can be orderd from your giant dealer,here in the UK they cost me 8.00 inc postage about $14 i guess.

    Some will tell you this is a bad idea, but Giant uk assured me it was ok and would not invalidate my warranty. i have run it this way for 2 months with no problem it also helps to bring up the front end when useing a smaller fork like the pike i have fitted.

  15. #15
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    Reputation: hagar's Avatar
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    would a zero stack or integrated headset affect effective headangles?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jx0shawn
    ZS headsets can't be retrofitted to the older designs can they? I'm in need of a 17mm stack height headset and most are 29+mm.
    Any ideas?
    If you mean inserting a Zero Stack headset cup into a standard sized head tube, no, it won't work. Zero Stack head tubes are a larger diameter.

    You'll have to find another way to shave that stack height.
    speedub.nate
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hagar
    would a zero stack or integrated headset affect effective headangles?
    Not any more so than a convnetional headset would affect head angles on a conventional frame.

    The frame builder is going to have laid out the frame with a particular HA in mind with whatever headset type had been selected.

    Like mzungo said, if you use an adapter to fit a conventional headset to a ZS frame, then the extra stack height of the (new) conventional lower headset cup will raise the front end (maybe by 15-20mm) and slacken the geometry by about a degree.
    speedub.nate
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