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  1. #1
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    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?

    So I have been looking for "junk bike" builds and upgrades for bikes you would buy at the big box stores.

    And do you know what I see in nearly every one?

    "Don't waste your time, waste your money"

    Either the argument is "unsafe, too heavy, or the parts cost more than the bike"

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.

    What many of the "elite" super bike owners seem to forget is that much like jeeps, they were "built not bought".

    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years. Hell the tech you are running today is 40 to 60 years old.

    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.

    Seriously. Men and women go and train with 40's of dead weight on their backs for miles. Yet you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?

    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.

    We I don't believe half that hype.

    But let's also not forget that there are individuals like myself that can't and won't drop $500 on a bike in a single shot.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.

    Then maybe invest in new brakes, gears, and derailleurs.

    Then I might drop on some dressing to clean it up. Like lock cap grips. Carbon fiber looking cable covers.

    Then, if I really feel froggy, I might upgrade to disk brakes.

    Then... I can enjoy the bike year round, not worry that I am driving a "Ferrari" grade bike to work, and condition my muscles for heavier trails.

    Then... if I am really getting into it, and I can support the habit. I might go find a better grade of frame at a bike shop or pawn shop used.

    Then... use the parts I have, install them on the frame, and maybe put the "junk bike back together as my "work bike".

    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.

    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more when the worlds lightest mountain bike is just shy of 14lb and there is only 1 and it was a bike that was bought then hand modified to reach that.

    I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet... I don't get to ride the flats in eastern oregon.

    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.

    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".

    Yep it is. Because that's why the market for upgrade parts exists.

    I don't care if its $100 or $8,000. Parts brake and we always want more.

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.

    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down. Even PC building isn't this bad.

    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking.

    I hope I can.

  2. #2
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    Since Iím up early,let me be the first to ask if you we out late drinking or getting high?

    Having bought a brand new FisherXO in Ď97 to see what all the full squish.hype is about, I can tell you technology has vastly improved...that bike sucked the fun out of riding and I swore off full squish for 25yrs.

    Just the other day, I saw a guy riding a Magna (I think you get them at Wal-Mart/Target/Sears) up a hill on a street near my house. He was struggling, bobbing, and looked absolutely miserable. So sure, 30yr old tech is around...itís just that itís garbage.

    I guess if you wanna be ďcoreĒ go buy yourself a Trek Y-22, but Iíll just be tryin to have fun on my new tech.

    But to answer your question: it isnít. Itís lighter, stronger, better made, and higher quality. I guess they are still a ďdouble-diamondĒ principle, but aside from that, bikes are remarkably different than their 1980s equivalents.

  3. #3
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    The "materials" have improved but the technology in your bike was applied 40 to 60 years ago. Shocks... are relatively new to the bike game I admit. But that is one compared to derailleur brake, gears and tires and wheels.

    And yes, he probably did struggle. You too. The fact is. It's a workout. While you are "maintaining" he is actually building muscle strength.

    But that's your choice and his.

    The reality is with maybe 2 major items and changes in materials biking hasn't changed.

    https://mmbhof.org/mtn-bike-hall-of-fame/history/

    But you do you... if you can only contribute "waste money" then I've heard it.

    But if you have parts to recommend I will gladly listen.

  4. #4
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    As for the Fisher XO you spent $1300 in 1997, which is $2050 today.

    I am so sorry you have money to burn.

    But I think you missed the point.

    I "may" invest $2000 into a bike. But I wouldn't do it all at once. Especially on something I intend to use as daily transportation.

    And i think there are many like myself that would enjoy it more if "money" wasn't the only answer given.

  5. #5
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    er... OK...

    Spend what you feel comfortable with and what you can afford, if that $100 or $10,000, just go with that I say.
    All the gear and no idea.

  6. #6
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    As for the Fisher XO you spent $1300 in 1997, which is $2050 today.

    I am so sorry you have money to burn.

    But I think you missed the point.

    I "may" invest $2000 into a bike. But I wouldn't do it all at once. Especially on something I intend to use as daily transportation.

    And i think there are many like myself that would enjoy it more if "money" wasn't the only answer given.




    The problem is that you look at it as an investment. As far as "daily transportation", you don't have to spend a lot of money or incur the cost of what you describe as 70 year old technology either, 100 year old tech. would suffice.

    You realize that this is an enthusiasts forum, right?
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    As for the Fisher XO you spent $1300 in 1997, which is $2050 today.

    I am so sorry you have money to burn.

    But I think you missed the point.

    I "may" invest $2000 into a bike. But I wouldn't do it all at once. Especially on something I intend to use as daily transportation.

    And i think there are many like myself that would enjoy it more if "money" wasn't the only answer given.
    I didnít miss the point at all. I simply disagree with you.

    As far as struggling vs. maintains, did LeMond say: it doesnít get any easier...you just get faster. We just disagree.

    As far as your tech assertion, itís like saying: cars have 4herks, a steering wheel and (mostly) utiliz an internal combustion engine....why are we still using 100yr old tech? Again, we just disagree.

  8. #8
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    It sounds to me like you have never done any real mountain biking which is why you donít understand the value of an expensive bike. It also sounds like you donít have enough money for an expensive bike so you are trying to make yourself feel better with this rant.
    2015 Niner Jet 9 Carbon
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  9. #9
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    I built my first off road bicycle, or klunker (later to be named mountain bikes) in 1971, before any manufacturer made mountain or off road bikes. (That didn't happen until 78) and if you think today's tech is anything like what was back then, you are truly clueless. Even the derailleurs and drive trains have evolved to the point about the only thing the same is the basic theory, and the fact they use a cable to shift.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Since Iím up early,let me be the first to ask if you we out late drinking or getting high?

    Having bought a brand new FisherXO in Ď97 to see what all the full squish.hype is about, I can tell you technology has vastly improved...that bike sucked the fun out of riding and I swore off full squish for 25yrs.

    Just the other day, I saw a guy riding a Magna (I think you get them at Wal-Mart/Target/Sears) up a hill on a street near my house. He was struggling, bobbing, and looked absolutely miserable. So sure, 30yr old tech is around...itís just that itís garbage.

    I guess if you wanna be ďcoreĒ go buy yourself a Trek Y-22, but Iíll just be tryin to have fun on my new tech.

    But to answer your question: it isnít. Itís lighter, stronger, better made, and higher quality. I guess they are still a ďdouble-diamondĒ principle, but aside from that, bikes are remarkably different than their 1980s equivalents.


    You are slow.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  11. #11
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    Right. If I was commuting on a bike I'd be happy to use my $250 single speed steel framed road bike. I don't have to worry about good suspension, or crappy suspension, or any suspension at all, it's just a bike, and when you pedal it, it goes. You're either rider enough to pedal it up a hill, or you get off and push. It's a great bike. I would never ride it on trails.

    For trails, I am willing and able to indulge myself for a hobby. As a bigger guy I tend to shy away from "the lightest bike out there" because guess what....I've got broken frames hanging all over my garage. And none of them were the lightest. Oh yeah, I actually ride pretty hard. Not as hard as some people. But plenty hard.

    I like the way you play the age card about being around for the beginning of the mountain bike movement, but obviously have no idea what kind of technology or developments have actually happened. Shifting has become much more precise, we have narrower gears and chains, and wider ratio cassettes. Gone are the days of my first (2x5 45 lbs steel framed rigid 26") mountain bike that you could barely stop with its rim brakes even though the brake levers were large enough to get a whole hand on. With a decent set of modern disc brakes, I can lock up either wheel with part of the strength of one finger, leaving much more of my hand on the bars for control.

    In fact, that brings me to a point. The modern mountain bike is SO much more capable than most people understand. I see people constantly riding around features on trails that I rode on a rigid 26" bike - they say their short travel FS bike isn't slack enough to hit that, or whatever. No, it's a lot more to do with the rider than the bike. But the bikes are so, so, so much better if you know how to ride them.

    That reminds me. If age has become enough of a problem for you that you can't remember the difference between brake (something that slows you down) and break (something coming apart where it's not supposed to) I know a good speech therapist that can help you with that.

    (Why do we keep feeding the trolls?)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    You are slow.
    But I also waste money.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    But I also waste money.

    Same here, I piss it away. And actually I was trying to quote the op (hawk) not you. Sorry, I am slow.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  14. #14
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    CornTrolio
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

    Thrill Bikers Unite!

  15. #15
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    It doesnít take a more obvious troll post to get most of you riled up.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  16. #16
    Cycologist
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    Cars haven't evolved since the the '50s. Still mostly metal, still use a steering wheel, still use pedals, still four wheels, etc. Don't waste your money. Does Walmart sell cars yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  17. #17
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    I like cats, and their technology hasn't changed at all in recent memory.

  18. #18
    the discerning hooligan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.
    The position of "Retro On Steroids" here at MTBR is presently filled. Thank you.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  19. #19
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    And wheels.....WHEELS? WTF, weren't they invented, like, HUNDREDS of years ago? We can't get past them?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    I like cats, and their technology hasn't changed at all in recent memory.
    Freakin cat people...canít trust Ďem I tell. GO DOGS!!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    And wheels.....WHEELS? WTF, weren't they invented, like, HUNDREDS of years ago? We can't get past them?

  22. #22
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    To a degree I agree with you. But technology has improved quite a bit. It may be little things here and there but it has changed. Some not for the better. I will say I don't care what a person rides on just as long as they ride. When I got back into mountain bike riding I started with a very cheap Wal-Mart bike. Once I decided to keep going I upgraded some to a Liv bike from my LBS. I still have that cheap Wal-Mart bike. I have put spare parts from my Liv on it though.

    Sometimes it's not the ride that matters, it's the journey.
    Will swerve for leaves.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    So I have been looking for "junk bike" builds and upgrades for bikes you would buy at the big box stores.

    And do you know what I see in nearly every one?

    "Don't waste your time, waste your money"

    Either the argument is "unsafe, too heavy, or the parts cost more than the bike"

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.

    What many of the "elite" super bike owners seem to forget is that much like jeeps, they were "built not bought".

    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years. Hell the tech you are running today is 40 to 60 years old.

    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.

    Seriously. Men and women go and train with 40's of dead weight on their backs for miles. Yet you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?

    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.

    We I don't believe half that hype.

    But let's also not forget that there are individuals like myself that can't and won't drop $500 on a bike in a single shot.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.

    Then maybe invest in new brakes, gears, and derailleurs.

    Then I might drop on some dressing to clean it up. Like lock cap grips. Carbon fiber looking cable covers.

    Then, if I really feel froggy, I might upgrade to disk brakes.

    Then... I can enjoy the bike year round, not worry that I am driving a "Ferrari" grade bike to work, and condition my muscles for heavier trails.

    Then... if I am really getting into it, and I can support the habit. I might go find a better grade of frame at a bike shop or pawn shop used.

    Then... use the parts I have, install them on the frame, and maybe put the "junk bike back together as my "work bike".

    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.

    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more when the worlds lightest mountain bike is just shy of 14lb and there is only 1 and it was a bike that was bought then hand modified to reach that.

    I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet... I don't get to ride the flats in eastern oregon.

    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.

    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".

    Yep it is. Because that's why the market for upgrade parts exists.

    I don't care if its $100 or $8,000. Parts brake and we always want more.

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.

    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down. Even PC building isn't this bad.

    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking.

    I hope I can.
    One of the basic errors that you make is that you made a false dichotomy between "built not bought" with vehicles and bikes. Just like upgrading a vehicle with better suspension or drivetrain parts, to increase its ability to drive offroad or handle a curve at speed, that's exactly what higher end bike components do. Whether it comes with a complete bike that you buy at a store or you spend hours and hours on eBay, waiting for months until that one auction that ends at 4am comes up and you bid $32.65 for a $1000 MSRP fork and win. How is "built not bought" with a truck better than buying expensive parts for a bike and doing the same thing?

    Now, what appears to be a reference to the military. As someone who has carried my "house" on my back for many a mile, and has dreams that include the discomfort of ceramic body armor plates, I know exactly WHY people train that way. Not to make them "stronger" or "faster", but to make them better at dealing with discomfort, and because the job requires them to carry that equipment. The implication that riding with a heavy bike makes one faster is not born out by reality. At any given second, you, me, and everyone else here can only produce so much power for a given duration. Whether I'm riding a 15lb road bike or a 40lb FR sled, that number doesn't change. I simply go faster or slower based on the bike's ability to translate that energy at the crank into forward motion.

    I don't think that anyone here is claiming that riding a light or expensive bike improves our fitness. I've been on MTBR for a hot minute now and I've never seen that claim. It simply lets us travel further for the same effort, at the same fitness level.
    Death from Below.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post

    I don't think that anyone here is claiming that riding a light or expensive bike improves our fitness.


    I am. If a $200 Mal-Wart bike was my only option I'd probably be a couch surfer instead of a bike rider.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leafkiller View Post
    To a degree I agree with you.
    Sure, there are some fundamental things about bicycles that have not changed. Some of them define the bicycle, so if you change that, you have invented something else.

    There have been changes to EVERY aspect of bicycles over the years. So you can't really argue (effectively, anyway) that bicycle technology is still in the 1950's and 1960s, because that's not true.

    Even department store bikes have progressed since then. But I suppose that since that is OP's primary frame of reference, that the changes are going to be much more subtle.

  26. #26
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    Why are cranky old men still stuck in the 40ís-50ís?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    So I have been looking for "junk bike" builds and upgrades for bikes you would buy at the big box stores.

    And do you know what I see in nearly every one?

    "Don't waste your time, waste your money"

    Either the argument is "unsafe, too heavy, or the parts cost more than the bike"

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.

    What many of the "elite" super bike owners seem to forget is that much like jeeps, they were "built not bought".

    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years. Hell the tech you are running today is 40 to 60 years old.

    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.

    Seriously. Men and women go and train with 40's of dead weight on their backs for miles. Yet you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?

    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.

    We I don't believe half that hype.

    But let's also not forget that there are individuals like myself that can't and won't drop $500 on a bike in a single shot.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.

    Then maybe invest in new brakes, gears, and derailleurs.

    Then I might drop on some dressing to clean it up. Like lock cap grips. Carbon fiber looking cable covers.

    Then, if I really feel froggy, I might upgrade to disk brakes.

    Then... I can enjoy the bike year round, not worry that I am driving a "Ferrari" grade bike to work, and condition my muscles for heavier trails.

    Then... if I am really getting into it, and I can support the habit. I might go find a better grade of frame at a bike shop or pawn shop used.

    Then... use the parts I have, install them on the frame, and maybe put the "junk bike back together as my "work bike".

    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.

    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more when the worlds lightest mountain bike is just shy of 14lb and there is only 1 and it was a bike that was bought then hand modified to reach that.

    I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet... I don't get to ride the flats in eastern oregon.

    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.

    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".

    Yep it is. Because that's why the market for upgrade parts exists.

    I don't care if its $100 or $8,000. Parts brake and we always want more.

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.

    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down. Even PC building isn't this bad.

    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking.

    I hope I can.
    so to summarize: "Get off my lawn!"
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  28. #28
    Out spokin'
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    Hey OP, somebody who knows says right here todayís bikes are better than ever:
    https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/w...g-1092071.html
    Why start a new thread?
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    There have been changes to EVERY aspect of bicycles over the years.
    Wait a minute, Harold. As MSU Alum pointed out the wheels are still round. Címon, give the OP a brake.
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  30. #30
    The perfessor
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I am. If a $200 Mal-Wart bike was my only option I'd probably be a couch surfer instead of a bike rider.
    Even today's $200 Wally World bike is better than anything I had as a kid and I would gladly ride it, though, maybe not on the more strenuous trails that I ride my Tallboy on.....that said, I'm headed to Hawaii this summer and I won't have a bike there to ride so I do consider buying a Wally World special (possibly the Wally World fat bike) and babying it just enough to enjoy two weeks there (I'll leave it with my buddy with the understanding that it's not meant for anything more than cross-country riding).......
    Rigid 29er Ti SS / 29er SC Tallboy AL / Paketa Magnesium Road Bike

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_chrome View Post
    Even today's $200 Wally World bike is better than anything I had as a kid and I would gladly ride it

    Poor kid...... jk

    We all have our standards I guess.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  32. #32
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    Here is the deal.

    No. The technology has not "changed" in mountain biking. They have been "improved" and refined.

    And the point is that biking and mountain biking developed because of the user.

    People like you created the bike.

    They weren't bought. They were built.

    https: //mmbhof.org/mtn-bike-hall-of-fame/history/

    And there are individuals wanting that "build it" aspect.

    And people like you keep jamming "just buy a purpose built bike"

    As for me being "old" it's not about age.

    It's the idea that "you shouldn't waste your time on brand x and buy cannondale, even used is better than junk bikes"

    When this got started... they were all "junk bikes". Had people said "don't bother.... and was purpose built then sold to the masses that is different.

    As for "car technology" it has changed vastly compared to what you have in biking.

    With the tools and materials we have today there could be a new idea not used in biking but no one has even asked.

    What if you could add a 3 speed splitter to the bike crank? And turn a 21 speed into a 64 speed?

    At least cars have added new technology that hasn't existed. Like variable compression engines.

    My point is, the sport started as "what can we do" not "what can we buy".

  33. #33
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    I am willing to bet that the OP is some budding computer scientist's early iteration of a chat/forum AI. The post strings together a mashup of cliche statements and tones you would find when assembling training data. Overall though it makes no sense and does not resemble sane human thought.

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    I wonder if the OP has many other 'Manifestos' regarding other obscure pursuits.
    Last edited by rideit; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by knutso View Post
    I am willing to bet that the OP is some budding computer scientist's early iteration of a chat/forum AI. The post strings together a mashup of cliche statements and tones you would find when assembling training data. Overall though it makes no sense and does not resemble sane human thought.
    Ya mean heís ďbuilt,Ē not ďbought?Ē
    Sounds to me like OP may have never heard of a few cycling related innovations that have come (& gone?) like Schlumpf. In any case, evidently true innovation can only start now that weíve been exposed to his/her prodding. Eh, Hawk258?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    No. The technology has not "changed" in mountain biking. They have been "improved" and refined.
    Hate to break it to you, but "improvements" and "refinements" ARE "changes".

    WTF do you actually want?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    So I have been looking for "junk bike" builds and upgrades for bikes you would buy at the big box stores.

    And do you know what I see in nearly every one?

    "Don't waste your time, waste your money"

    Either the argument is "unsafe, too heavy, or the parts cost more than the bike"

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.

    What many of the "elite" super bike owners seem to forget is that much like jeeps, they were "built not bought".

    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years. Hell the tech you are running today is 40 to 60 years old.

    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.

    Seriously. Men and women go and train with 40's of dead weight on their backs for miles. Yet you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?

    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.

    We I don't believe half that hype.

    But let's also not forget that there are individuals like myself that can't and won't drop $500 on a bike in a single shot.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.

    Then maybe invest in new brakes, gears, and derailleurs.

    Then I might drop on some dressing to clean it up. Like lock cap grips. Carbon fiber looking cable covers.

    Then, if I really feel froggy, I might upgrade to disk brakes.

    Then... I can enjoy the bike year round, not worry that I am driving a "Ferrari" grade bike to work, and condition my muscles for heavier trails.

    Then... if I am really getting into it, and I can support the habit. I might go find a better grade of frame at a bike shop or pawn shop used.

    Then... use the parts I have, install them on the frame, and maybe put the "junk bike back together as my "work bike".

    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.

    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more when the worlds lightest mountain bike is just shy of 14lb and there is only 1 and it was a bike that was bought then hand modified to reach that.

    I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet... I don't get to ride the flats in eastern oregon.

    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.

    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".

    Yep it is. Because that's why the market for upgrade parts exists.

    I don't care if its $100 or $8,000. Parts brake and we always want more.

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.

    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down. Even PC building isn't this bad.

    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking.

    I hope I can.
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  38. #38
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    Hereís one that was built, not bought. Does it count as innovation or whatever ideal weíre pursuing here (Iím not really sure exactly what the OP is pursuing here)?
    https://forums.mtbr.com/frame-buildi...r-1076824.html
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  39. #39
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    so in the 70's, I was riding my (BMX) bike, and then I went onto a dirt trail, and my bike changed to a different kind of bike, because it wasn't on the pavement anymore. Then it went back onto the pavement to a culvert, and changed to a different kind of bike.

    I still do the same thing today with my current bike.

    At no time was I ever worried about the technology, other than if the bike would withstand the beating.

    Then I went home and watched hockey on tv...
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    That's impressive. And I think it counts.

    In many cases much further than my idea.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    What if you could add a 3 speed splitter to the bike crank? And turn a 21 speed into a 64 speed?
    There's a clue right there, where'd that extra gear come from? Apparently math HAS changed since the 50s and 60s? (and don't tell him his 21 speed is stuck in the '90s).
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  42. #42
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    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.

    Ebikes are not bicycles

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    How about a community willing to suggest upgrades and improvements to "junk bikes" to look through YouTube and find people willing to get people to participate in the hobby.

    In many forums I see individuals ask "is it worth it?" In regards to these big box bikes.

    Yet I have seen no one offer improvements that could be done and adapted over to a better frame, then further improved.

    Instead of "buy a better bike".

    Many people get started on "junk bikes".

    And I think you could get more people into the hobby if there was a willingness to consider the "one piece at a time" crowd.

    But since they are pushed to pay "used car prices" it doesn't make it very interesting.

    And unfortunately that's what I see. People that own bikes that that are worth the cost of motorcycles.

    What I don't see is getting individuals to develop riding skills with their bikes.

    And in a way that in my opinion is part of the enthusiasm.

    Not everyone has $500 to drop on a bike. But more people have a hundred or 2 to get there over time.

    And honestly that really sucks for those individuals that want to get there as economy painless as possible.

  44. #44
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    LOL
    Iíve got plenty of popcorn. Can anybody spare a beer or two?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Hereís one that was built, not bought. Does it count as innovation or whatever ideal weíre pursuing here (Iím not really sure exactly what the OP is pursuing here)?
    https://forums.mtbr.com/frame-buildi...r-1076824.html
    =sParty
    Psh, that doesn't count! He bought the fork, he bought the dropouts and tubing, and all the other parts. If he's not mining all the ores and refining the metals himself, too, then he's still just buying it and not building it. All he did was put $hit together.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Hereís one that was built, not bought. Does it count as innovation or whatever ideal weíre pursuing here (Iím not really sure exactly what the OP is pursuing here)?
    https://forums.mtbr.com/frame-buildi...r-1076824.html
    =sParty
    Not junky enough I'd imagine.

    Kinda tough to take someone seriously who thinks "carbon fiber looking cable covers" are a more of a worthwhile upgrade than disc brakes on a 60lb bike. Or whatever the hell the OP was rambling about; I can barely make heads nor tails of it.
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  47. #47
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    Easily the dumbest thing I've read all week. The OPs basic lack of concepts, the English language and naivete make it impossible to take him seriously.

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    LOL
    Iíve got plenty of popcorn. Can anybody spare a beer or two?
    Don't give this guy any alcoholic beverages!!!
    Cool heads prevail

  49. #49
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    The OP rides alone.

  50. #50
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    These bikes being built... There not built to drag race are they?

  51. #51
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    Fair example. And you are right. I haven't.

    Now that is a piece of hardware I would like.

    However what I do see is a total of 10 posts.

    1 about specs, 3 about with others similar systems. And what I do see is "unpopular" and "not really mtb friendly" with complaints ranging from "2 gears won't be good for trailers" or "bad shifting set up" "wrong chain angle"

    And I admitted there were "a few" innovations. I included shocks and disc brakes and materials.

    My point of contention is that for some reason the "minimum" is buying a $500 bike instead of helping those with what they have.

    As no one says "start with fresh new forks if you have a shock set up and get a new neck and handle bar. Might I suggest x brand" as they don't have a history of breaking and are "reasonably priced""

    As for "tech changes" I don't see where improvements on an existing system as a significant "change" I see schlumpf as a significant change as it does change the game as it is more of a "transmission" than a set of gears with a "guide".

    Where as I would love to see a schlumpf system mated to this to a shaft drive.

    And apparently I missed a few others like belt and planetary drives.

    But many of those are still on the outer fringe of the hobby.

    Will they be embraced or shunned?

  52. #52
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    As stated I was unaware of the schlepf system prior to the post. Which was what I was suggesting.

  53. #53
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    OP's bike has a neck?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Here is the deal.

    No. The technology has not "changed" in mountain biking. They have been "improved" and refined.

    And the point is that biking and mountain biking developed because of the user.

    People like you created the bike.

    They weren't bought. They were built.

    https: //mmbhof.org/mtn-bike-hall-of-fame/history/

    And there are individuals wanting that "build it" aspect.

    And people like you keep jamming "just buy a purpose built bike"

    As for me being "old" it's not about age.

    It's the idea that "you shouldn't waste your time on brand x and buy cannondale, even used is better than junk bikes"

    When this got started... they were all "junk bikes". Had people said "don't bother.... and was purpose built then sold to the masses that is different.

    As for "car technology" it has changed vastly compared to what you have in biking.

    With the tools and materials we have today there could be a new idea not used in biking but no one has even asked.

    What if you could add a 3 speed splitter to the bike crank? And turn a 21 speed into a 64 speed?

    At least cars have added new technology that hasn't existed. Like variable compression engines.

    My point is, the sport started as "what can we do" not "what can we buy".




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    Well if you want to get technical the stem, however I have heard "bike riders" refer to it as a "neck" as it mounts on the headset attaching it to the handlebars.

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    I live in eastern Oregon... its entirely possible.

  57. #57
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    ignorant people with strong opinions are fun.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Well if you want to get technical the stem, however I have heard "bike riders" refer to it as a "neck" as it mounts on the headset attaching it to the handlebars.
    Nobody I have ever met, who rides bikes, manufactures bike components, or sells bikes or accessories, has used the term "neck" in at least the past 20yrs.

    Quill stems were sometimes called goosenecks BITD, but that is a very outdated term now, as quill stems are extremely uncommon anymore.

    And no stem, quill or otherwise, has ever actually attached to the headset. A stem attaches to the steerer tube of the fork so you can steer the bike. Quill stems, in fact, have no contact whatsoever with the threaded headsets they are associated with. Stems used with unthreaded steerer tubes and threadless headsets still clamp to the steerer, but are used to preload the headset bearings.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    It doesnít take a more obvious troll post to get most of you riled up.
    I hate to say it but I agree wholeheartedly here.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  60. #60
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    I have at least 5 examples that disagree from sellers and users.

    http:// s176.photobucket.com/user/badvibes258/library/?sort=4&page=1

    There is a space as links seem to vanish

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    I have at least 5 examples that disagree from sellers and users.

    http:// s176.photobucket.com/user/badvibes258/library/?sort=4&page=1

    There is a space as links seem to vanish
    Random morons on craigslist or ebay don't count. Most of them probably haven't ridden a bike since before I was born.

    I dare you to find a manufacturer or a legitimate business that uses that term.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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    Not a troll perse, but if you look at the ones responding more negatively, and their bikes, you will see many have $3000+ worth of bikes, which is cool.

    But when I see someone get shot down for wanting to "building" a better bike starting with a $99 "junk bike" and told "just throw a huge wad of money at it all at once" I believe it turns some people off from getting into the hobby and prevents them from developing a passion for it.

    I have looked and most responses are the same.

    There is no one telling these "noobs" to build their bikes "psycobilly Cadillac" style and get the skills to go from "casual" to "enthusiast".

    To let their bike evolve with them.

    Not everyone is willing or able to dump $500 on a bike they might not like anyway.

    Hell, at least 1 person dumped 2k in today's money to just see what the hype was about.

    Not something a person is going to do.

    There are lots of people that $500 is most of a 2 week pay check. And I think the attitude many share here is actually hurting the sport more than helping.

    One of the reasons the sport "is" where it is at is people like you. However I believe if some of these folks were guided in with what they have you would see a better market for used components as well as more people buying new as well as new tech being developed faster and let the sport grow again.

    A majority of you are in your 40's.

    Which I think is awesome but, I don't see "many" 18 to 20 year olds here. What happens when the "old school" bike junkies are gone.

    In general "biking" isn't exactly Getting great PR.

    Between fighting for trails and right of way, road laws, getting taxed, people that ride bikes daily must have lost their license for DUI. Ect.

    Instead of "riding a bike is still fun".

    Which I believe many of you seem to forgot that.

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    https: //www.planetbmx.com/shop/bike-components-parts/stems-1-1/8-threadless/knight-bike-co-retro-stem-in-colors.html
    Last edited by Hawk258; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:13 PM. Reason: Url

  65. #65
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    what are we arguing about? some people who are stuck in the '80s still call a stem a "neck"? so what?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    How about a community willing to suggest upgrades and improvements to "junk bikes" to look through YouTube and find people willing to get people to participate in the hobby.

    In many forums I see individuals ask "is it worth it?" In regards to these big box bikes.

    Yet I have seen no one offer improvements that could be done and adapted over to a better frame, then further improved.

    Instead of "buy a better bike".

    Many people get started on "junk bikes".

    And I think you could get more people into the hobby if there was a willingness to consider the "one piece at a time" crowd.

    But since they are pushed to pay "used car prices" it doesn't make it very interesting.

    And unfortunately that's what I see. People that own bikes that that are worth the cost of motorcycles.

    What I don't see is getting individuals to develop riding skills with their bikes.

    And in a way that in my opinion is part of the enthusiasm.

    Not everyone has $500 to drop on a bike. But more people have a hundred or 2 to get there over time.

    And honestly that really sucks for those individuals that want to get there as economy painless as possible.
    I'll bite. I started this hobby on a $200 walmart bike because I wasn't sure how much I would like it, and I didn't want to blow a large amount on something that I might not stick to. I realized pretty quick that I really liked riding and upgraded the rear shock and fork because I had the same thought as you. It was difficult to find parts which fit the old tech on the bike (short shock lengths, 1.125" steerer tube etc..). Shortly after putting money into the bike I cracked the frame after a few weeks and several passes off of a two foot drop. For me it was a lesson learned. I don't regret buying a cheap bike to start out and test the water, but I do regret wasting money upgrading it.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    But when I see someone get shot down for wanting to "building" a better bike starting with a $99 "junk bike" and told "just throw a huge wad of money at it all at once" I believe it turns some people off from getting into the hobby and prevents them from developing a passion for it.
    telling people to waste money upgrading a shit bike is bad advice. I tell people not to do that because I don't want to see them get discouraged after doing something so foolish. sometimes good advice is hard to swallow.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post
    I'll bite. I started this hobby on a $200 walmart bike because I wasn't sure how much I would like it, and I didn't want to blow a large amount on something that I might not stick to. I realized pretty quick that I really liked riding and upgraded the rear shock and fork because I had the same thought as you. It was difficult to find parts which fit the old tech on the bike (short shock lengths, 1.125" steerer tube etc..). Shortly after putting money into the bike I cracked the frame after a few weeks and several passes off of a two foot drop. For me it was a lesson learned. I don't regret buying a cheap bike to start out and test the water, but I do regret wasting money upgrading it.
    and fortunately you didn't end up spending thousands more on medical bills when that happened (I presume). all bikes can break, but there's a reason why those bikes have warning stickers on them. nothing personal, but some people have to learn the hard way, myself included.

  69. #69
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    But let's not forget "tuf neck" "turtle neck" and "pro neck" not to forget the "goose neck".

    And if you google "bike neck" guess what you find?

    And considering that many individuals riders and otherwise use "neck" in the sales... must mean there is a "general" agreement that is an acceptable term.

  70. #70
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    So you have a problem with enthusiast level riders who are passionate about their sport and who have enough disposable income to spend more money on mountain biking?

    You should probably just go somewhere else.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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    So you are willing to throw people on a bike, not knowing their skill level and still get hurt?

    No offense, but getting hurt is always a risk.

    One "awe shit" will still ruin your day.

    And there is the next "excuse". Not every rider is going to be doing 18 to 20 foot jumps, not every rider is going to try riding a mountain ridge.

    If they do it the result is the same regardless of the bike... skill is more important.

    Considering even "junk bikes" are still 50 times better than when the sport began.

    In fact most of the tech on your bikes were never tried.

    The sport grew from experimentation and risk.

    Drum brakes and cantilevered brakes weren't even a thing.

    And again, most the issues on $99 bikes are front forks, "stems" and badly adjusted brakes and derailleurs under extreme use.

    The frames while "heavy" are structurally sound.

    And probably safer than the "used mid-grade" at the pawnshop.

  72. #72
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    No, I don't have a problem with the income or what you spend.

  73. #73
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    Crappy, big box store mountain bikes make baby Jesus cry.

  74. #74
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    lol @ "neck" non-sequitur.

    this thread still makes me laugh- https://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-fre...ke-625231.html
    spoiler- dude says he's going to build a bike starting with a crappy bike, is warned not to do it, does it anyway, wastes a bunch of time, breaks the frame in the end. I talked to that guy later and he admitted that the whole thing was a giant waste of time and he wished he had never spent a single minute on it.

    also, regarding decades, the apostrophe goes before the number because it signifies the omission of "19" as in

    "This bike was made in 1956. It was a product of the '50s."

  75. #75
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    I don't think you wasted money on the upgrades. I would imagine many were able to be moved to the new frame?
    Last edited by Hawk258; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:49 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    and fortunately you didn't end up spending thousands more on medical bills when that happened (I presume). all bikes can break, but there's a reason why those bikes have warning stickers on them. nothing personal, but some people have to learn the hard way, myself included.
    No offense but that is a bad argument. Many people on "high end bikes" get hurt trying to ride beyond their skill level.

  77. #77
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    All I got from this is that Hawk258 is poor.

  78. #78
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    Unsubscribing because this is idiocy.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    lol @ "neck" non-sequitur.

    this thread still makes me laugh- https://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-fre...ke-625231.html
    spoiler- dude says he's going to build a bike starting with a crappy bike, is warned not to do it, does it anyway, wastes a bunch of time, breaks the frame in the end. I talked to that guy later and he admitted that the whole thing was a giant waste of time and he wished he had never spent a single minute on it.

    also, regarding decades, the apostrophe goes before the number because it signifies the omission of "19" as in

    "This bike was made in 1956. It was a product of the '50s."
    Again... not a waste if the parts can be moved to a better frame.

    Which allows for development of riding skill to suit the bike

  80. #80
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    nope, it's still a waste of time. you spend more time and money ripping apart an old bike and replacing every single part of it trying to put crappy parts on a decent frame than if you just bought a non-crappy bike in the first place. it's a lose-lose other than the experience you gain. on the other hand, you could also be smart and listen to the well-meaning people who advise you against such foolishness. some people gotta learn the hard way.

    sometimes we just need to let natural selection sort out people who don't listen to good advice.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    All I got from this is that Hawk258 is poor.
    If that's your only take away then you missed the point.

    There are individuals with little skills, likely little disposable income but have interest.

    And many of you just kill that interest by saying "buy big or don't play"

    Many of these are "kids" relatively speaking. And they might have a few bucks to spare and a cheap bike.

    So instead of turning them away instruct them.

    First: don't try to ride beyond your skills or the bike.

    Second: learn how to maintain and fix your bike.

    Third: share your experience but allow these "kids" to build with the resources at their disposal.
    Last edited by Hawk258; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:10 PM. Reason: Error

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post

    allow these "kids" to build with the resources at their disposal.



    No one is stopping them so what, exactly is your point besides demonstrating how little you actually know about mountain biking?
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

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  83. #83
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    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20180124_135354.jpg

    This is why you don't buy (then try to shred) a bicycle from a big box store. I understand the OP's quest to squeeze every last buffalo turd out of that nickel but from his very own argument that people get into cycling because of a bicycle of this caliber, I know countless others who owned a Huffy, Murry or the like as their first bike and hated it (an never got bit by the bicycle bug) because it never shifted right, the brakes didn't work and it squeaked with each pedal stroke because some high school kid with no training tried to assemble it with only a screwdriver and crescent wrench.

    If folks these days are NOT becoming mountain bikers, road bikers, gravel bikers, fat bikers or trike bikers, maybe it is because they have spent their last $400 on a Play Station 4 while spending $125 a month on their stupid cell phone.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    No offense but that is a bad argument. Many people on "high end bikes" get hurt trying to ride beyond their skill level.
    It is simple common sense, which is clearly not common in this case.

    Department store bikes are simply junk all around. If you want to replace broken parts, even replacing like with like is going to cost a significant proportion of the total cost of a new bike.

    Department store bikes are simply not built for anything other than riding in the neighborhood, casual riding on relatively smooth unpaved roads/paths, that sort of thing. They aren't mountain bikes, even if they might "look" like a mountain bike.

    Which comes down to the fact that mountain biking is not a right. It is no question a privilege, and there is a cost of entry. There are costs financially, fitness, and skill.

    Riding around the neighborhood or biking for transportation are different things with different requirements. For that matter, this whole website is predicated on enthusiast riders spending more money on bikes and parts.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Goat View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20180124_135354.jpg 
Views:	72 
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ID:	1226141
    and if you can't immediately tell what's wrong with that picture, you have no business thrusting your opinion about anything bike-related into the public sphere.

    edit- I just realized there are three things horribly, dangerously wrong with that bike.

    sorry, but mountain biking costs money. for some people, buying a nice bike is pocket change. for others, they have to save up for several months to buy something worthwhile. no one is entitled to become a mountain biker, and no one is being discriminated against because they can't afford a decent bike. as much as that sucks for poor people, it does not make crappy bikes any less likely to break, not perform safely, and end up being a way to flush money down the toilet.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Do you realize there are people in this world with a medical condition that causes them to be that way?
    Have you considered changing careers, or perhaps a second job? Just think how much you could have made toward a non crappy bike if you had put your time into making money instead of typing into the ether.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post

    edit- I just realized there are three things horribly, dangerously wrong with that bike.
    That tire looks a little low on air. I hope they check that before hitting the trails.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    No offense but that is a bad argument. Many people on "high end bikes" get hurt trying to ride beyond their skill level.
    Yeah but not because of the fault of inadequate / inferior equipment failing underneath them.
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    But let's not forget "tuf neck" "turtle neck" and "pro neck" not to forget the "goose neck".
    Red neck?
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

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    A totally fixable issue.

    They tell you to inspect your bike and make sure you set it up properly even on from the manufacturer.

    No offense but the person who put that together probably makes minimum wage, is over worked and probably doesn't care.

    Why? Because he is doing a job for people that won't do it, and they look down their noses and treat them like crap.

    Call them drop out or stupid, when the reality is someone has to do it. And "high school" kids can't. You got a 3 year window from "able to work" to "having to work" and the sad reality is no one is hiring these kids.

    Either because of safety, lack of experience, or the fact you have to retrain the next guy in 2 or 3 years, and their schedule doesn't work well for most businesses anyway.

    But yep... unfixable and unsafe.

  91. #91
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    silly anecdote: I had a S&M Redneck on my Sabbath flatland/ street bike. it was a 1 1/8" stem with built-in gyro tabs. 40 pound bmx bike with 48 spoked wheels and four pegs! S&M called it the "Redneck" to be cheeky because they knew no one used the term "neck" anymore as it had gone out with quill stems. that was one solid stem though.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    A totally fixable issue.
    which of the three issues are you talking about? yeah, they're all fixable but many people will buy a bike like that, have a horrible experience, and lose interest.

    minimum wage and overworked sounds like most bike shop mechanics. the difference is that they, and the industry that they work fork, care. so they don't like crap like that happen.

  93. #93
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    The wheel is on backwards, so there is no brake, the tire under inflated and the skewer "latched" in the wrong direction which could cause the wheel to come off.

  94. #94
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    nope, you missed one.

    The tire has nothing to do with it. what makes you think the tire is under-inflated? most of the bikes in shops have under-inflated tires because the bikes sit on the sales floor for weeks or months in between assembly, test rides, and sales. keep playing, this is fun.

    curious, how much time have you spent riding actual mountain trails? what bikes have you owned over the years, and how many years have you spent working in a bike shop? the answer may surprise you!

    this thread be like

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    Oh and I would bet the brakes aren't properly adjusted.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    How about a community willing to suggest upgrades and improvements to "junk bikes" to look through YouTube and find people willing to get people to participate in the hobby.

    In many forums I see individuals ask "is it worth it?" In regards to these big box bikes.

    Yet I have seen no one offer improvements that could be done and adapted over to a better frame, then further improved.

    Instead of "buy a better bike".

    Many people get started on "junk bikes".

    And I think you could get more people into the hobby if there was a willingness to consider the "one piece at a time" crowd.

    But since they are pushed to pay "used car prices" it doesn't make it very interesting.

    And unfortunately that's what I see. People that own bikes that that are worth the cost of motorcycles.

    What I don't see is getting individuals to develop riding skills with their bikes.

    And in a way that in my opinion is part of the enthusiasm.

    Not everyone has $500 to drop on a bike. But more people have a hundred or 2 to get there over time.

    And honestly that really sucks for those individuals that want to get there as economy painless as possible.
    This reminds me of something my F-I-L used to say. You can put lipstick on a pig but you still have a pig.(No offense meant Pig)

    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-cb6b_qrwmaaz_1f.jpg
    Change begins by doing something different.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    nope, you missed one.

    The tire has nothing to do with it. what makes you think the tire is under-inflated? most of the bikes in shops have under-inflated tires because the bikes sit on the sales floor for weeks or months in between assembly, test rides, and sales. keep playing, this is fun.

    curious, how much time have you spent riding actual mountain trails? what bikes have you owned over the years, and how many years have you spent working in a bike shop? the answer may surprise you!

    this thread be like
    When I say wrong direction it means the latch is not properly closed. It is pulled in the direction it is suppose to "open" making it easy to "snap" to the open position.

    But also it is leaning against the tube meaning it's barely holding anything.

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    The reason I say that is because of "sitting" but if you are going to say someone isn't going to notice the brakes right off or the skewer latch then they sure as hell aren't going to notice the tire pressure.

  99. #99
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    This has been a fairly...entertaining...troll
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

    Thrill Bikers Unite!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Oh and I would bet the brakes aren't properly adjusted.
    Yeah, that's going to be REALLY tough to adjust that brake to get it to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

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