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  1. #301
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    Wow. What a thread.
    My big contribution: Post a request for help and you will very quickly find out the people on a forum that solve something by throwing money at it.

    They're "bike pros" who will gladly tell you they can outride anyone and have done it for twenty years, but would drop out of a race because their straight bar got tweaked and they only have a spare riser bar and riser stem on hand.
    They'll walk home from the trail with a rip in their tire sidewall when they have a pocketful of dollar bills.
    They'll buy a complete new bike when their head tube develops a crack ('cuz aluminum has never been welded before).
    They'll buy the newest and best when they can't even exploit the capabilities of their suddenly "oldest and crappiest".


    Do-it-yourselfers/hackers/tweaks are the people to thank for the bikes we have today. They didn't HAVE , so they MADE. They modified as needed. They made it all possible.


    The answers needed to modify and create are out there, but it takes a lot of searching to find them. They're not always in the forum where you think they would be. And sometimes, you have to think outside the box and experiment (not easy when the people at the LBS are of the "just buy new" mindset and keep nothing in stock, even for the bikes they sell).

    Does it make sense to take a cheaper bike and upgrade it a little at a time? OF COURSE NOT!! Go out and drop $3K to get a real bike! No money? Then you need to quit biking, or don't even try to get started.
    Or so some people would want you to believe.

    Then again, you could do small updates update here and there until you have all the components, and ride until the frame is DOA and unrepairable. Then, get another frame and move all the parts over to it. 'Doing exactly that with my son's bike. When a part breaks, it'll get replaced with a better one. Eventually he'll have a $3K bike without having having to dump $3K in one fell swoop just to get on the trail.

    Race car drivers (amateur and pro) have been doing the same thing for almost a hundred years.
    Maybe they're doing it wrong?

    If you're having fun and it gets you out there biking, don't give a f***-all about what some people think. Just do it.

    Cheers.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    You are right, because I haven't broken this "crap bike" in 9 years and at least 18 trips on tougher terrain.

    So by that logic... I am just fine swapping a few parts then getting a "new" higher end bare frame like the Gravity fsx 1.0 then moving up the challenge level to an open pasture to train on narrower trails right?
    Wrong. If you plan on getting more skills and riding harder, then that bike you posted a little ways up is going to fall apart in no time. I could take a $350 Trek hybrid to my local trails and make it through everything, but that doesn't mean it's going to last or be any fun.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Look, when you have people post bullshit like "$1500 bikes don't break unless you throw them off a cliff" or that "safety" matters when the sport isn't.

    Then insult individual for "being poor" and insulting in general. I don't believe you are serving the interests of the community.

    Especially when it's been repeatedly stated that I understand the bike has limits. My skill is also limited at the moment. And that I intend to "get" to a "better bike" in time as my riding skills get better. And that I am not pushing any limits or my safety by putting a bike together and learning to maintain my own bike.

    But I believe there is an interest for me to be dependent on the local bike shop for general maintenance. Otherwise you wouldn't have people come to those shops for yearly tune ups and inspections.
    Your skills will improve much faster then that bike can handle if you ride often. I am no expert rider having only started riding this year but even a basic level Cannondale (which I guarantee was a better bike then the one you are on) was not holding up to my riding once I start riding more challenging trails. I tacoed both wheels and was constantly cleaning the BB for example.

    I had a Mongoose like that in college for riding around campus and even rolling around campus the wheels were constantly coming out of true and the front derailleur was constantly crap.

    Unfortunately mountain biking is largely not a cheap hobby. Parts that will stand up to the abuse while still being some what light enough to be usable are not easy to design or make and so they cost money. There are some options like the single speed I posted earlier. Or if you plan on sticking to the kind of riding you are currently doing, get a gravel or cyclocross bike. Or if you want to get into jumping and tricks and the like, check out the Mongoose Legion L100 BMX.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    You are right, because I haven't broken this "crap bike" in 9 years and at least 18 trips on tougher terrain.



    I could make that thing last forever on rail trails. It wouldn't last one trip to SOMO (a mythical place where real mountain bikes sometimes go to die). Just because you made it last 9 years only speaks to the amount of abuse it has not suffered.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Wow. What a thread.
    My big contribution: Post a request for help and you will very quickly find out the people on a forum that solve something by throwing money at it.

    They're "bike pros" who will gladly tell you they can outride anyone and have done it for twenty years, but would drop out of a race because their straight bar got tweaked and they only have a spare riser bar and riser stem on hand.
    They'll walk home from the trail with a rip in their tire sidewall when they have a pocketful of dollar bills.
    They'll buy a complete new bike when their head tube develops a crack ('cuz aluminum has never been welded before).
    They'll buy the newest and best when they can't even exploit the capabilities of their suddenly "oldest and crappiest".


    Do-it-yourselfers/hackers/tweaks are the people to thank for the bikes we have today. They didn't HAVE , so they MADE. They modified as needed. They made it all possible.


    The answers needed to modify and create are out there, but it takes a lot of searching to find them. They're not always in the forum where you think they would be. And sometimes, you have to think outside the box and experiment (not easy when the people at the LBS are of the "just buy new" mindset and keep nothing in stock, even for the bikes they sell).

    Does it make sense to take a cheaper bike and upgrade it a little at a time? OF COURSE NOT!! Go out and drop $3K to get a real bike! No money? Then you need to quit biking, or don't even try to get started.
    Or so some people would want you to believe.

    Then again, you could do small updates update here and there until you have all the components, and ride until the frame is DOA and unrepairable. Then, get another frame and move all the parts over to it. 'Doing exactly that with my son's bike. When a part breaks, it'll get replaced with a better one. Eventually he'll have a $3K bike without having having to dump $3K in one fell swoop just to get on the trail.

    Race car drivers (amateur and pro) have been doing the same thing for almost a hundred years.
    Maybe they're doing it wrong?

    If you're having fun and it gets you out there biking, don't give a f***-all about what some people think. Just do it.

    Cheers.
    A true DIYer would acknowledge that they need the right tool for the job, and if they wanted to build something that bad they'd spend a couple hundred bucks on brazing equipment and build their own frame. What's more DIY than building your own frame?

    Bicycles are insanely simple and anyone with a couple allen keys and half a brain can work on one. Hodge podging a bunch of garbage parts together doesn't make you a hardcore DIYer, it makes you cheap and unwilling to listen to people with experience.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    My big contribution: Post a request for help and you will very quickly find out the people on a forum that solve something by throwing money at it.
    no, that is generally not what happened in this thread. you're making an absurd straw man argument. Hawk is trying to make a functioning bicycle out of a POS at great expense, and others have given him options what would be cheaper and more effective to acquiring a functioning bicycle. There was a list of Craiglist ads for bikes that can be had for under $200, far less than what Hawk had budgeted for a few of the oddball parts he had in mind.

    no one said he had to spend thousands of dollars on a top-of-the line wunderbike. we gave him reasons why upgrading a POS is a waste of time and provided some reasonable alternatives.

    tinkering is great, but not if it gets in the way of having a functioning bicycle. at the rate he's going, it will be a year or more before the thing rolls and stops. kludging together a pile of junk does not make you a DIYer, it makes you a weirdo with a martyr complex.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    But I believe there is an interest for me to be dependent on the local bike shop for general maintenance. Otherwise you wouldn't have people come to those shops for yearly tune ups and inspections.
    Not at all. You bring that bike into my shop I will require $120 plus parts to do a single thing, specifically to discourage you from leaving it with us.

    Besides, I've seen polls in here - the vast majority of users on this forum do the vast majority of their own work. I do all of my own work. No one here is saying you shouldn't learn to wrench, we are saying you shouldn't waste your time on that bike.

    And more to the point, no one is saying don't ride it... Ride the hell out of it, have fun! Just don't put money into it; when you're ready just buy another one.

    You are not mountain biking, so none of the 'rules' we have in our minds about our bikes apply to you... If it can go (and hopefully stop too) then just ride it.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I disagree with your mechanic, IME you can usually make a bigger difference in a shorter amount of time tuning up BSO's. Of course the end product is still sub-par but the owners are generally very pleased because their bike leaves the shop running a lot better than it did when it was new.


    Anyway, I've probably tuned 1,000's of those pos's and turned as much profit on them as I did on actual bicycles. And their owners are less finiky.

    He's a perfectionist, so I think he just ends up going down the rabbit hole. When I work on those bikes I typically end up having to bend something back into shape (brakes most common)... He's a scientist (literally) and I don't think he likes one-off solutions like that. One of those 'do it right or don't do it all' kind of guys and I love him for it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    I could make that thing last forever on rail trails. It wouldn't last one trip to SOMO (a mythical place where real mountain bikes sometimes go to die). Just because you made it last 9 years only speaks to the amount of abuse it has not suffered.
    I have "tried" to make that pretty clear. Its seen wide skid trails and abandoned railroad lines.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    I have "tried" to make that pretty clear. Its seen wide skid trails and abandoned railroad lines.
    And we've tried to make it clear that this is a forum for mountain bikers riding mountain bike trails.

    Try posting about your Ford Fiesta on an off-roading forum, it'll go just as well.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Not at all. You bring that bike into my shop I will require $120 plus parts to do a single thing, specifically to discourage you from leaving it with us.

    Besides, I've seen polls in here - the vast majority of users on this forum do the vast majority of their own work. I do all of my own work. No one here is saying you shouldn't learn to wrench, we are saying you shouldn't waste your time on that bike.

    And more to the point, no one is saying don't ride it... Ride the hell out of it, have fun! Just don't put money into it; when you're ready just buy another one.

    You are not mountain biking, so none of the 'rules' we have in our minds about our bikes apply to you... If it can go (and hopefully stop too) then just ride it.




    He's a perfectionist, so I think he just ends up going down the rabbit hole. When I work on those bikes I typically end up having to bend something back into shape (brakes most common)... He's a scientist (literally) and I don't think he likes one-off solutions like that. One of those 'do it right or don't do it all' kind of guys and I love him for it.

    Not this bike, the one you guys keep saying "buy a whole bike" new or otherwise.

    How much would you charge me to work on a trek or gravity fsx 1.0?

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    And we've tried to make it clear that this is a forum for mountain bikers riding mountain bike trails.

    Try posting about your Ford Fiesta on an off-roading forum, it'll go just as well.

    And you seem to be missing the point of "working to get there."

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post

    Does it make sense to take a cheaper bike and upgrade it a little at a time? OF COURSE NOT!! Go out and drop $3K to get a real bike! No money? Then you need to quit biking, or don't even try to get started.
    Or so some people would want you to believe.

    Cheers.
    Literally no one is saying that I don't think. They are saying get a better base to start with. Basically nothing from that bike will be swappable once the frame is destroyed.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    And we've tried to make it clear that this is a forum for mountain bikers riding mountain bike trails.

    Try posting about your Ford Fiesta on an off-roading forum, it'll go just as well.
    In fact it's a common complaint when a rider jumps into mountain biking and on trails they aren't skilled for, plugging it up for skilled faster riders.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    And you seem to be missing the point of "working to get there."
    Here's the bottom line. Go ahead and build your Mongoose up with new parts. Then come back to this forum and ask a bunch of questions about what frame your parts will fit on when you decide its new frame time. I am telling you right now, that they don't make new mountain bike frames with 26" wheels and 1" steer tubes. So you're going to spend a bunch of money on parts, and then when you decide to swap them all to a new shiny frame there isn't going to be anything available. So you will end up throwing that bike in the garbage (with its new parts) and buying something like we told you to originally.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    You are right, because I haven't broken this "crap bike" in 9 years and at least 18 trips on tougher terrain.

    So by that logic... I am just fine swapping a few parts then getting a "new" higher end bare frame like the Gravity fsx 1.0 then moving up the challenge level to an open pasture to train on narrower trails right?
    Nothing wrong with getting a new, higher end frame and swapping the parts that fit, but you will find that most of the parts from your current bike do not fit the new frame. If you do upgrade frames, I'd suggest going with somethign like this:
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/zio...732740025.html
    instead of the Gravity FSX1. Much simpler to work on and requires less maintenance.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    And you seem to be missing the point of "working to get there."
    Get the Trailforks app or do an internet search, find some blue trails and go ride them. And you are there.

  17. #317
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    what is your point? what are you trying to get out of this conversation? no one is going to, in good faith, tell you that this is a good idea, so why bother? just keep going, and if you want some validation, post the results when you're done tinkering and you have a perfectly adequate bike.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Literally no one is saying that I don't think. They are saying get a better base to start with. Basically nothing from that bike will be swappable once the frame is destroyed.
    Well "buy a better bike" and don't bother because you will destroy the bike. And not learn about the components and parts and how to maintain and put them on.

    You "assume" I will destroy the bike before I get the frame.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    And you seem to be missing the point of "working to get there."
    Working on what? Just go ride.

    Your bike will never be worthwhile for real mountain biking. You can disagree, but the reality is I've been riding almost 20 years now and have worked at a shop the last four... And you are quick to say you have no experience, so I don't think you're in a position to tell me (or all of us, many of whom have more experience than me) that I'm wrong.

    Ride it until either it breaks or you want an upgrade and then come back and ask us for some help picking something out in your budget. We'll be happy to help.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    In fact it's a common complaint when a rider jumps into mountain biking and on trails they aren't skilled for, plugging it up for skilled faster riders.
    No, it's not. I spend ten hours on the trail each week, people are very polite and welcoming of new riders. I might ask to pass, but I recognize that you're new and I want you to have fun so I sure as hell won't be rude or belittle you. Same goes for the vast majority of riders.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Not this bike, the one you guys keep saying "buy a whole bike" new or otherwise.

    How much would you charge me to work on a trek or gravity fsx 1.0?
    There is no reason you can't learn to work on a new bike when it needs work...

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    "If you aren't spending money and do as I say go away." Got ya.
    You have suggested that you are spending money on this project. Many of the suggestions here are not to spend any more money than you are talking about spending, and many are suggesting less money spent that what you are indicating that you plan to spend. We are just trying to help you spend the money you have more wisely to help you acheive your goals by pointing out some ways your money will go farther.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Well "buy a better bike" and don't bother because you will destroy the bike. And not learn about the components and parts and how to maintain and put them on.

    You "assume" I will destroy the bike before I get the frame.
    What?

    The point people are trying to make to you is that parts you put on that bike will not be able to swapped onto a new bike. So effectively you will have parts you will either need to sell at a lose or throw away.

  23. #323
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    if you are going to take a cheap bike and upgrade it, at least start with a better base. I am not saying that every single cheap bike is totally worthless, but that particular style of bike, and I have seen dozens of them, is a logistical nightmare to find parts for it. that particular style of bike is the cheesiest of the cheesy. because you don't have the years of experience that people on this forum do, you don't fully comprehend how much of a giant pain that is going to be.

    look for a kind of modern hardtail bike that at least has a 1 1/8" threadless headset and stem. you can bolt more modern parts on something like that. you can find something like that for almost nothing and replace it one piece at a time.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.
    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years.
    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.
    Seriously. ...you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?
    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.
    We I don't believe half that hype.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.
    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.
    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more...I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.
    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.
    I have not seen a "frame brake" ...or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break....

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.
    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down...
    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking. I hope I can.
    We've seen these guys come and go that think that they possess some sort of ingenuity that the rest of us lack. They're all cut from the same cloth, and are convinced that they are more cleaver than the rest of us building what they think is a trail worthy bike out of a box store toy. I have yet to see it done.

    Hawk has been maybe a little more offensive in that ...

    He presents himself as some sort of innovator of our sport ( another RepackRider?)

    He uses blanket statements to question our fortitude or that we actually do the things we say we do.

    He contradicts himself (states that he's never seen a frame break, then follows up with a bunch of videos of frames breaking to support his arguments)

    He then warns to us that we need to dial back what is a long held, and nearly universal understanding that is contrary to his own.


    The fact is this...there is no fact or evidence with enough weight to contend with someone who refuses to believe what you say.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  25. #325
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    I'm confused, the OP was a rant about how new technology sucks, I didn't think he was looking for "help".

    I need another joint...brb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I'm confused, the OP was a rant about how new technology sucks, I didn't think he was looking for "help".

    I need another joint...brb.
    Not everyone who needs help is looking for it.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    He presents himself as some sort of innovator of our sport
    Yeah, weird how he helped 'create this past time' without having actually tried it yet.
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  28. #328
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    I know I said this thread wasn't as much fun as the MTB drag-racing thing, but that was two pages ago now and I take it back.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Eventually he'll have a $3K bike without having having to dump $3K in one fell swoop just to get on the trail.
    No, he'll have a $500-700 bike that you spent $3k on.
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  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Wow. What a thread.
    My big contribution: Post a request for help and you will very quickly find out the people on a forum that solve something by throwing money at it.

    Do-it-yourselfers/hackers/tweaks are the people to thank for the bikes we have today. They didn't HAVE , so they MADE. They modified as needed. They made it all possible.
    My main ride is a frame i brazed together in a garage last year with a modified decade-old build kit. Us cheapass DIY'ers agree with consensus here; we can't afford to waste money on disposable stuff.
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  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    One of those 'do it right or don't do it all' kind of guys and I love him for it.


    I'm sort of the same way. I'm very much a perfectionist when working on nice bikes but doing it right on Huffys often requires bending bars and hammers, and I kind of like that.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I'm confused, the OP was a rant about how new technology sucks.

    His rant was actually about how we are a bunch of posers and snobs and that we'd better change all that now that he's here.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I know I said this thread wasn't as much fun as the MTB drag-racing thing, but that was two pages ago now and I take it back.



    drag racing was on a different level altogether though, this is more akin to "Jeep bike".
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  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    No, he'll have a $500-700 bike that you spent $3k on.



    "I'm too poor to buy junk" should be the mantra going forward.
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  35. #335
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    Is this the five minute argument or the full half hour?
    https://youtu.be/wxrbOVeRonQ

  36. #336
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    This thread on so many levels...

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  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    So I have been looking for "junk bike" builds and upgrades for bikes you would buy at the big box stores.

    And do you know what I see in nearly every one?

    "Don't waste your time, waste your money"

    Either the argument is "unsafe, too heavy, or the parts cost more than the bike"

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.

    What many of the "elite" super bike owners seem to forget is that much like jeeps, they were "built not bought".

    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years. Hell the tech you are running today is 40 to 60 years old.

    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.

    Seriously. Men and women go and train with 40's of dead weight on their backs for miles. Yet you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?

    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.

    We I don't believe half that hype.

    But let's also not forget that there are individuals like myself that can't and won't drop $500 on a bike in a single shot.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.

    Then maybe invest in new brakes, gears, and derailleurs.

    Then I might drop on some dressing to clean it up. Like lock cap grips. Carbon fiber looking cable covers.

    Then, if I really feel froggy, I might upgrade to disk brakes.

    Then... I can enjoy the bike year round, not worry that I am driving a "Ferrari" grade bike to work, and condition my muscles for heavier trails.

    Then... if I am really getting into it, and I can support the habit. I might go find a better grade of frame at a bike shop or pawn shop used.

    Then... use the parts I have, install them on the frame, and maybe put the "junk bike back together as my "work bike".

    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.

    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more when the worlds lightest mountain bike is just shy of 14lb and there is only 1 and it was a bike that was bought then hand modified to reach that.

    I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet... I don't get to ride the flats in eastern oregon.

    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.

    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".

    Yep it is. Because that's why the market for upgrade parts exists.

    I don't care if its $100 or $8,000. Parts brake and we always want more.

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.

    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down. Even PC building isn't this bad.

    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking.

    I hope I can.
    Quoted to remind us of the dismissive, condescending poppycock that started this. OP is an ignorant, proud, know-nothing asshole, plain and simple. I wanted to help but he's only gotten worse.

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Is this the five minute argument or the full half hour?
    https://youtu.be/wxrbOVeRonQ
    Lol!
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  39. #339
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    Hawkman, I understand that you have pride in your ability to keep your bike rolling rather than replace. I understand that you would like to be able to continue to maintain that simple machine by replacing parts as they wear out. Maintaining that machine because of the cost of a new bike is a rationalization that feeds your pride. Something has caused this rant. Is coming to a realization that you are limited in parts availability for the steed that which harms your pride and is the cause of the rant? Welcome to the curmudgeon club.

    Everyone here will be offering their own advice about what you should do and they will likely not be able to agree with your viewpoint because it is not their own. As such, you should probably not expect much agreement. That doesn't mean that shouldn't disavow any of their viewpoints completely as they are simply responding to your post as you should expect. The responses of the others are built on their bicycle experiences and perhaps are pieces of knowledge they wish they had known during their course of action in the sport in which they partake. Also, don't take it personally when some responses are telling you to move to another bike. Likely they might have been in a similar situation with a loved ride and they found it would've been better to move on. Take what is useful and leave the rest. I'm sure you don't need our validation to do what you are intending.

    Now, for my experience. I can't and won't ever purchase the new top of the line mtb, because I can't afford it and don't need it. I have destroyed my fair share of dept store/garage sale/BSO in my youth. I'll never go back. The one bike that lasted the longest was a Hard Rock from about '92 that I had to talk my parents into purchasing for me and put money towards. I probably replaced everything on that bike with the exception of the thumb shifters and the seatpost over the years. I sold it for 20 dollars at a gsale 4 years ago in rideable condition and it probably made somebody happy. Lots on that bike that needing replacing at the end, but the frame was still good. Assuming it still fit, should I have completely rebuilt it? Could I have, maybe... Now it is common knowledge that building a car from parts is expensive and time consuming. There is also a Johnny Cash song about building such a car by taking parts over time from a factory. The first scenario is expensive and the second is folly. You appear to be frustrated at your inability to do both and the responses from other members that you probably shouldn't do it. That said, some responses are to go for it if that's is your goal but to prepare for a road less traveled with a bike not entirely suited for it. So, do what your mind tells you, but beware your pride if it limits new things and experiences.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    ...

    First: don't try to ride beyond your skills or the bike.

    ...
    I am pretty sure there are 100+ pages of posts on this website regarding progression [of skills]. Progression is more or less defined by the frequency at which you ride beyond your skills - or at least find out where your skills end and your luck takes over. Not all of that is about clearing 20ft gap jumps, though. It's about braking a little later, leaning a little harder, climbing a little steeper, trusting your steering/handling rather than your braking... These aren't death-defying scenarios. But even these mild tests are fraught with problems when your suspension or brakes do not function well enough. Riding beyond the bike is dangerous. Pretending the bike is better just because "I worked on it" is also dangerous. BSO's have their place.

    And then I have to leave on this note:
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-clsht6xvyamodb_.jpg

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  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    A true DIYer would acknowledge that they need the right tool for the job, and if they wanted to build something that bad they'd spend a couple hundred bucks on brazing equipment and build their own frame. What's more DIY than building your own frame?

    Bicycles are insanely simple and anyone with a couple allen keys and half a brain can work on one. Hodge podging a bunch of garbage parts together doesn't make you a hardcore DIYer, it makes you cheap and unwilling to listen to people with experience.
    No one said anything about "hardcore DIYer". I'm talking DIY in general, and calling BS to anyone who says it can't or shouldn't be done.

    I returned to biking after a long absence with one part (ONE) broken on my bike (an old but solid design).
    The answers I got on multiple forums to how I could go about fixing it:
    1. "Get a new bike. Yours is too old."
    2. "You CANNOT swap a part. It will fail. You will crash. You will lose all your teeth. Buy a new bike."
    3. "Aluminum fatigues just by sitting on a shelf. Your frame will break, and you will die. Buy a new bike."
    4. (After thinking about fork swap) "You CANNOT replace a 1" steerered fork with a 1.125" setup, even if your head tube is 1.4" ID (told to me by someone who was sponsored by the mfgr of my bike and raced on the same frames).
    5. "Your bike is craptastic. No amount of parts swapping will make it rideable. Buy a new one."
    6. "No parts are or will ever be available that you can use on your bike."
    7. "Putting better parts on your bike will improve nothing."


    All from "people with experience".

    Uhmmm, bullshi* to all of it.
    The "craptastic" bike now has an NOS fork that went for about $500 new. A carbon fiber bar, updated stem, new tires, new brakes.
    For less than $200 all-in.

    Find me a full-suspension pedigreed bike for that kind of money.


    Oh yeah. And go buy yourself a single speed bike so you can get a good workout.
    Just make sure it weighs 23 pounds so riding it doesn't take so much work.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    No one said anything about "hardcore DIYer". I'm talking DIY in general, and calling BS to anyone who says it can't or shouldn't be done.

    I returned to biking after a long absence with one part (ONE) broken on my bike (an old but solid design).
    The answers I got on multiple forums to how I could go about fixing it:
    1. "Get a new bike. Yours is too old."
    2. "You CANNOT swap a part. It will fail. You will crash. You will lose all your teeth. Buy a new bike."
    3. "Aluminum fatigues just by sitting on a shelf. Your frame will break, and you will die. Buy a new bike."
    4. (After thinking about fork swap) "You CANNOT replace a 1" steerered fork with a 1.125" setup, even if your head tube is 1.4" ID (told to me by someone who was sponsored by the mfgr of my bike and raced on the same frames).
    5. "Your bike is craptastic. No amount of parts swapping will make it rideable. Buy a new one."
    6. "No parts are or will ever be available that you can use on your bike."
    7. "Putting better parts on your bike will improve nothing."


    All from "people with experience".

    Uhmmm, bullshi* to all of it.
    The "craptastic" bike now has an NOS fork that went for about $500 new. A carbon fiber bar, updated stem, new tires, new brakes.
    For less than $200 all-in.

    Find me a full-suspension pedigreed bike for that kind of money.



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  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Wow. What a thread.
    My big contribution: Post a request for help and you will very quickly find out the people on a forum that solve something by throwing money at it.

    They're "bike pros" who will gladly tell you they can outride anyone and have done it for twenty years, but would drop out of a race because their straight bar got tweaked and they only have a spare riser bar and riser stem on hand.
    They'll walk home from the trail with a rip in their tire sidewall when they have a pocketful of dollar bills.
    They'll buy a complete new bike when their head tube develops a crack ('cuz aluminum has never been welded before).
    They'll buy the newest and best when they can't even exploit the capabilities of their suddenly "oldest and crappiest".


    Do-it-yourselfers/hackers/tweaks are the people to thank for the bikes we have today. They didn't HAVE , so they MADE. They modified as needed. They made it all possible.


    The answers needed to modify and create are out there, but it takes a lot of searching to find them. They're not always in the forum where you think they would be. And sometimes, you have to think outside the box and experiment (not easy when the people at the LBS are of the "just buy new" mindset and keep nothing in stock, even for the bikes they sell).

    Does it make sense to take a cheaper bike and upgrade it a little at a time? OF COURSE NOT!! Go out and drop $3K to get a real bike! No money? Then you need to quit biking, or don't even try to get started.
    Or so some people would want you to believe.

    Then again, you could do small updates update here and there until you have all the components, and ride until the frame is DOA and unrepairable. Then, get another frame and move all the parts over to it. 'Doing exactly that with my son's bike. When a part breaks, it'll get replaced with a better one. Eventually he'll have a $3K bike without having having to dump $3K in one fell swoop just to get on the trail.

    Race car drivers (amateur and pro) have been doing the same thing for almost a hundred years.
    Maybe they're doing it wrong?

    If you're having fun and it gets you out there biking, don't give a f***-all about what some people think. Just do it.

    Cheers.
    I think you're missing the point by a pretty wide mark here.

    No one is saying not to upgrade cheap bikes with good parts. They're saying you can find quality used bikes for cheap dollars and if you want to go the upgrade route, this is the right one vs the wally world bike.

    Let's look at another example. You can build the most lavish house you want on a cheap foundation and it will eventually fall down around you. But build an inexpensive house on a solid foundation and it'll be around for years to slowly upgrade to the lavish mansion, if you choose. It's all about the foundation.

    In this case, the foundation is fundamentally flawed. It's cheap. It's barely safe. It will work for commuting and rail trails - for a while - but for any actual trail, with roots, rocks, ruts or anything else that makes it less than smoothed, groomed riding, it is a poor foundation doomed to fail. Spending money to upgrade this thing is a poor decision and ill advised.

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post

    BLAH BLAH BLAH

    .
    There's a helluva lot of difference between rehabbing an older but solid bike with okay parts bought at a savings (which I do regularly) and trying to modernize a 9 year old rusty hunk of shit that wasn't worth upgrading even when it was brand new (which is stupid). Hence all the advice to get a better starting platform.

    Keep tilting at windmills though.
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  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    strawman, blah, blah, blah
    'Totally different story than I got when I was posting about replacing ONE PART on an old bike.

    And yes, I was VERY clear about what bike I was trying to replace ONE PART on an old bike that had not been thrown off a cliff with a 200lb rider on it.

    Yes, go buy a good frame with your whole budget.
    Have fun pretending to ride it while you add one part at a time as budget allows until you can actually use it.



    "Yes, aluminum has a shelf and usage life. Ask any maker of aluminum bikes."

    "I would not worry about the fork breaking - the rest of your bike may break first!"

    "
    you will get a better and safer ride on the trails from a MTB from Walmart." (than an old ProFlex)
    "I donít know.....but Iím not willing to bet my teeth on it. If you have good dental insurance....try it out and see.
    Certain things on a bike Iím not willing to alter for safety reasons"

    "
    The Proflex were great in their day, but even if made rideable, will it be safe?"

    "For God's sake, just treat yourself to a more recent bike for under $1000. The Proflex were great in their day, but this one seems too far gone to resuscitate. (because a spring adjuster collar is seized)"

    "
    Lots of us here have a lot of experience and decades of riding....some in an around the bike industry for years, so just maybe we have a clue."

  46. #346
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  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I know I said this thread wasn't as much fun as the MTB drag-racing thing, but that was two pages ago now and I take it back.
    Drag racing was more sad. This guy at least got the message and disappeared.

  48. #348
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    Happiness is having NOT read pages 2&3 of this thread.

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    'Totally different story than I got when I was posting about replacing ONE PART on an old bike.

    And yes, I was VERY clear about what bike I was trying to replace ONE PART on an old bike that had not been thrown off a cliff with a 200lb rider on it.

    Yes, go buy a good frame with your whole budget.
    Have fun pretending to ride it while you add one part at a time as budget allows until you can actually use it.




    Link to thread in question?
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  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Drag racing was more sad. This guy at least got the message and disappeared.
    What was sad was the people who got confused by the analogy regarding gear reduction and force multiplication.

    Probably the same people who buy a new bike if their brake lever snaps in half.

  51. #351
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    I work in a shop as a service tech/service manager. I see parents bringing in their kids' big box store bike for repairs. I told one of the guys this thing has to weigh in at 45 pounds plus..he didn't believe me being a kids bike, but full suspension. We weighed it and it weighed 46.7 lbs. that's almost 4 pounds heavier then the Norco A-Line DH bike I owned.
    Who the hell expects a 7-8 years old kid to enjoy riding on a POS ?Save your said 300 buy a nice used hardtail already upgraded.

  52. #352
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    The OP needs to read this thread.


    https://forums.mtbr.com/general-disc...ld-776332.html
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  53. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    'Totally different story than I got when I was posting about replacing ONE PART on an old bike.

    And yes, I was VERY clear about what bike I was trying to replace ONE PART on an old bike that had not been thrown off a cliff with a 200lb rider on it.

    Yes, go buy a good frame with your whole budget.
    Have fun pretending to ride it while you add one part at a time as budget allows until you can actually use it.

    How about you provide a link to where I said anything along those lines?

    I'll wait...
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  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    It is almost as if the OP in that thread and the OP in this thread were cousins.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    How about you provide a link to where I said anything along those lines?
    I'll wait...
    'Not sure where I accused you of such. Care to post a link?
    I'll wait...

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    'Not sure where I accused you of such. Care to post a link?
    I'll wait...




    I asked for a link from you to cite what you posted. Until then it's just more bullshiitte.
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  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    'Not sure where I accused you of such. Care to post a link?
    I'll wait...
    No need for a link...post #346 where you quoted me then replied with a bunch of BS that has nothing whatsover to do with anything I've ever said.
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  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    Nobody was confused by your "analogy." Your idiotic claim where a geared MTB rider covers 4x the distance of a SS MTB rider in an hour was just that, idiotic. It still serves to prove that you are woefully inexperienced.

    Here's the thread where this noob was repeatedly owned. By his posts.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/my-analog-bike-existential-crisis-1091272.html#post13870547

    Oh, it's THAT guy again...

    Now I get it.


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  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Look, when you have people post bullshit like "$1500 bikes don't break unless you throw them off a cliff" or that "safety" matters when the sport isn't.

    Then insult individual for "being poor" and insulting in general. I don't believe you are serving the interests of the community.

    Especially when it's been repeatedly stated that I understand the bike has limits. My skill is also limited at the moment. And that I intend to "get" to a "better bike" in time as my riding skills get better. And that I am not pushing any limits or my safety by putting a bike together and learning to maintain my own bike.

    But I believe there is an interest for me to be dependent on the local bike shop for general maintenance. Otherwise you wouldn't have people come to those shops for yearly tune ups and inspections.
    Learn how to weld and stfu

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  60. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    Nobody was confused by your "analogy." Your idiotic claim where a geared MTB rider covers 4x the distance of a SS MTB rider in an hour was just that, idiotic. It still serves to prove that you are woefully inexperienced.

    Here's the thread where this noob was repeatedly owned. By his posts.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/my-analog-bike-existential-crisis-1091272.html#post13870547

    Amazing how people turn a simple analogy into a claim of absolute proof.
    yes, I threw a number out there. It wasn't meant to be an empirically backed statement of proof, even though people tried to turn it into that in order to bolster their arguments.

    They're the same types who will use a typo or misspelling to divert an argument to something they can actually understand.

    No one "owned me" because no one, NOT A SINGLE PERSON, provided anything to back up their claims. They just repeated the claims.

    If you think having 40,000 posts makes someone an expert, you need to get out into the real world a bit.
    Then again, you could stop flapping your lips and do the work for those who couldn't do it themselves.
    But you won't. Becasue you can't. You're just another talking head.


    Don't forget to thrown out any aluminum that has passed the expiration date, and enjoy your single speed Toyota Tundra.

  61. #361
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    Now he has you at each other's throats!

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post


    Don't forget to thrown out any aluminum that has passed the expiration date, and enjoy your single speed Toyota Tundra.
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-1%2Arxmpesybiutxea4vh98y2g.jpeg

  63. #363
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    The bike in question is just the wrong foundation, that's all we're saying. Start with something that will not be a logicistical nightmare. If you wanted to build a house and you started with a plastic toy hammer, some toothpicks instead of nails, and boxes of lasagna noodles instead of a proper hammer, nails, and lumber, people would warn you that it's not going to work. Some might suggest a gold-plated hammer and unobtanium nails, but most will ask you to start with some good old nails and a hammer not made from plastic. not because they are brainwashed by the lumber industry or because they are hammer snobs, but because they don't want to see you waste your time and money at such a disadvantage.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    The bike in question is just the wrong foundation, that's all we're saying. Start with something that will not be a logicistical nightmare. If you wanted to build a house and you started with a plastic toy hammer, some toothpicks instead of nails, and boxes of lasagna noodles instead of a proper lumber, nails, and lumber, people would warn you that it's not going to work, not because they are brainwashed by the lumber industry or because they are hammer snobs, but because they don't want to see you waste your time and money at such a disadvantage.
    My house is built from lasagna noodles and toothpicks, and I built it that way slowly over time. How dare you...

  65. #365
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    MMMMMMM Lasagna!!!!
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    The bike in question is just the wrong foundation, that's all we're saying.
    I've done 3 different "budget build" bikes presented here on the boards and have had almost entirely positive feedback (when I threatened to put BB7s on an "ultimate budget downhiller" there were mixed opinions). The community here calls it down the middle for the most part. Each of us might have our own experience based bias, but there are few sheep when it comes to the industry at any level. We are, by and large, on the side of the individual.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  67. #367
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    Back when I was in college and on a budget, I built a really sweet rigid singlespeed mtb on a no-name aluminum frame I bought on ebay for $30. I think I had about $200 into the bike overall. Rode it for several years (even put studded tires on it so I could ride it as an occasional winter commuter in Michigan) and then sold it to a college student who needed a campus bike for more money than I put into it.

    Sometimes I get an itch to do another budget build just for the helluvit.

    You can do really smart budget builds for very little money if you do your research and take care. But if you're a moron, it's also really easy to blow a ton of wasted cash on a piece of shit.

  68. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Back when I was in college and on a budget, I built a really sweet rigid singlespeed mtb on a no-name aluminum frame I bought on ebay for $30. I think I had about $200 into the bike overall. Rode it for several years (even put studded tires on it so I could ride it as an occasional winter commuter in Michigan) and then sold it to a college student who needed a campus bike for more money than I put into it.

    Sometimes I get an itch to do another budget build just for the helluvit.

    You can do really smart budget builds for very little money if you do your research and take care. But if you're a moron, it's also really easy to blow a ton of wasted cash on a piece of shit.



    Very true, my single speed road bike is a $15.00 Cannondale with a Surly single speed kit and a home made tensioner. Total cost, less than $30.00.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    My house is built from lasagna noodles and toothpicks, and I built it that way slowly over time. How dare you...
    ...I was just thinking that if anyone owned a house like that he would be a singlespeeder...
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    If you think having 40,000 posts makes someone an expert, you need to get out into the real world a bit.
    Wait, you're saying i'm just an 8th of the way to being an expert? Damn. Why am i even here then?
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  71. #371
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    Thanks guys, I have never laughed so hard over a Thread in my life. it is eye opening now that I have found I could have gotten by with a 200 dollar bike, damn, I've wasted a lot of money.
    " What do you want for yourself?"

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  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".
    Educate yourself before posting such a trollish post again:

    https://youtu.be/1A6bKUCcDW0


    Also, what is a 200lb gorilla? I happen to weigh 220lbs and regularly ride with my son (38lbs) on my bike and the thing holds up great, because it is a higher quality bike than what can be purchased at wal-mart.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    good to know that the trails in my backyard kill department store bikes

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Amazing how people turn a simple analogy into a claim of absolute proof.
    yes, I threw a number out there. It wasn't meant to be an empirically backed statement of proof, even though people tried to turn it into that in order to bolster their arguments.

    They're the same types who will use a typo or misspelling to divert an argument to something they can actually understand.

    No one "owned me" because no one, NOT A SINGLE PERSON, provided anything to back up their claims. They just repeated the claims.

    If you think having 40,000 posts makes someone an expert, you need to get out into the real world a bit.
    Then again, you could stop flapping your lips and do the work for those who couldn't do it themselves.
    But you won't. Becasue you can't. You're just another talking head.


    Don't forget to thrown out any aluminum that has passed the expiration date, and enjoy your single speed Toyota Tundra.
    So did you conduct the experiment I suggested? Sorry, I guess I missed where you posted the results.

    I did get passed while riding my SS yesterday. Pretty sure he had more than 21 gears, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  75. #375
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    Ok OP, one last attempt.

    I lived in Japan in the '90s. I shipped my mountain bike, a $650 Univega I'd bought in the US. I rode that bike all over Tokyo. Good solid hardtail. I had a friend from New Zealand I often went drinking with. He owed me some money after a night out and ended up giving me his bike. It looked pretty similar to mine. But when I got on it and started to ride, holy cow, how could it be so different and not in a good way?

    So I am going to suggest that you go and check out one of those Craigslist bikes that a member was incredibly nice to look up for you. Make sure it is the proper size before you go; that is important. Just tell the lister that you want to check out the bike and ask if everything works properly (I'd recommend one of the Treks or the Marin). You don't have to buy it, in fact, don't plan to buy it, I'm just trying to get you to try it.

    When you give it a test ride check that the brakes work and that it shifts properly. If it has a suspension fork, check that it isn't stuck or immediately compresses too far. About the last thing that can be a major problem is a seat post that is stuck in the frame, take some metric allan keys with you and check that or ask the owner before you go if he will be able to adjust the seat post for you.

    Or go to an LBS and tell them you're not buying today but that you'd like to check out their most affordable bike.

    These ideas are just to get you a little experience, not to sell you anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Here is the deal.

    No. The technology has not "changed" in mountain biking. They have been "improved" and refined.

    And the point is that biking and mountain biking developed because of the user.

    People like you created the bike.

    They weren't bought. They were built.

    https: //mmbhof.org/mtn-bike-hall-of-fame/history/

    And there are individuals wanting that "build it" aspect.

    And people like you keep jamming "just buy a purpose built bike"

    As for me being "old" it's not about age.

    It's the idea that "you shouldn't waste your time on brand x and buy cannondale, even used is better than junk bikes"

    When this got started... they were all "junk bikes". Had people said "don't bother.... and was purpose built then sold to the masses that is different.

    As for "car technology" it has changed vastly compared to what you have in biking.

    With the tools and materials we have today there could be a new idea not used in biking but no one has even asked.

    What if you could add a 3 speed splitter to the bike crank? And turn a 21 speed into a 64 speed?

    At least cars have added new technology that hasn't existed. Like variable compression engines.

    My point is, the sport started as "what can we do" not "what can we buy".
    I won't get into the argument of whether changed is the same as improved.

    However I agree that all to often it is easier to tell someone to buy something more expensive and a brand name but there is at least 2 reasons for this. First, unlike the department store bikes, there will be someone one here that has tried to make an old cannondale work. They will know what 8 spd shifter will work with what rear derailleur or what front derailleur will work on a Gary Fisher hard tail. What the majority of users here will not know is what size derailleur will work on a huffy seat tube or if Avid brakes will work on an old walgoose. You are asking for experience on fixing a discount bike and then being upset when people without experience in fixing it up tell you to buy a bike they can relate to.

    Second, as you said, most people start on junk bikes, but most people also have had frames break, wheels bend, cranks fall off, etc, and most realize that spending their dollars on a more expensive bike means less time wondering when it will fail and more time riding without worry.

    I would argue that will cars have evolved substantially in what you get they have not changed that much since the unibody was introduced. All the junk inside them is immaterial to how they actually perform as vehicles. They gotten heavier so the engines have been designed to have more horsepower, however they have not gotten more efficient with this change (excluding the prius maybe). Electric cars are in no way no, actually being the first reliable motorized vehicles for a long time until internal combustion engines were refined. (check it: https://www.energy.gov/articles/history-electric-car).

    Bicycles on the other hand have gotten stronger, lighter and more efficient with the addition of material science, suspension technology, and geometry design. Unlike cars bikes have not been enhanced by tacking on sound, media devices, cup holders, electric doo dads, noise cancelling devices, etc, all things that are about the experience of being in the vehicle vs. actual vehicle improvement. Sure that are much safer now but they also have to be as they are much larger.

    Many of the items you noted have been rejected by the cycling world because on a bike you have around 1/4HP to play with. Anything that can't enhance that minimal power output will die. I have seen shaft drives, planetary cranksets, auto shifting bikes, most things you can image but they all have gone the way of Google Glass. Sometimes things just don't make it, especially when the bicycle is such an efficient concept. All that really is left is to refine the system, it doesn't particularly need to innovate or evolve because within the limitations of human power and material science it is pretty much as developed as it needs to be.
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  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    That's a good way to do it so he won't have to spend money on a new neck.
    Except when he breaks his, and needs surgery.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  78. #378
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    MTB tech is stuck in the '50s and '60s? Rubbish! But the OP is stuck on a very bad idea.

    What I don't understand is why anyone is wasting time trying to change his mind. A brick will be a brick no matter how hard you persuade it to be otherwise.
    Veni vidi velo!

  79. #379
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    You could make a very good argument that bicycles haven't changed much since the second bike boom, which brought same-size wheels, pneumatic tires, and chain drives. But that wouldn't get you to 384 posts.

  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    ...I was just thinking that if anyone owned a house like that he would be a singlespeeder...
    pretty sure the guy with a home made out of lasagna would be a fat-biker.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  81. #381
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    Checked Hawk's posts, 86 in less than a month, all in this thread. Wonder if he actually has a bike at all. Checked his profile "Hawk258 has not made any friends yet" Anyone surprised?

  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by armii View Post
    Checked Hawk's posts, 86 in less than a month, all in this thread. Wonder if he actually has a bike at all. Checked his profile "Hawk258 has not made any friends yet" Anyone surprised?



    Nothing in this place surprises me anymore.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Nothing in this place surprises me anymore.

    A month? 3 days.

  84. #384
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    Now it lets me post...

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    You're lying.

    "I would be happy to hear the explanation to reduce my ignorance.
    Please include empirical data that would clarify the how and why. "
    That quote had nothing to do with my off-the-cuff statement comparing single-speed to multi-speed biking, but it's a cute try nonetheless.

    Have YOU tried driving a manual transmission vehicle around solely in 3rd or 4th gear for an entire day? Go do it, and post your results here. Or STFU about something you know nothing about.

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Iím going to go out on a limb here and suggest that some of you must have OCD to have spent so much time on this subject. Coming back for more hourly to prove a point on a never ending worthless battle.
    I think you might be onto something here, this thread just keeps going and going and going, with all the same participants unable to get their point across. A bit of OCD me thinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  87. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Have YOU tried driving a manual transmission vehicle around solely in 3rd or 4th gear for an entire day? Go do it, and post your results here. Or STFU about something you know nothing about.


    Some cars do fine with one gear.

    People aren't cars though.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    BTW...has anyone seen Picard?
    Lolololololol

    Hook line and sinker.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    I may have misused "power" but here is the definition.
    "A simple machine consisting of a bar that pivots on a fixed support, or fulcrum , and is used to transmit torque . A force applied by pushing down on one end of the lever results in a force pushing up at the other end. ... Levers, like gears, can thus be used to increase the force available from a*source"
    The word you want is "work" not "force." I can push on the wall all I want, but if it doesn't move, I've created force, but no work. Similarly, you can push the pedals all you want, but if you don't move from A to B, then you've done nothing useful. "Force" is only half the battle.

  90. #390
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    Food fight!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I think you might be onto something here, this thread just keeps going and going and going, with all the same participants unable to get their point across. A bit of OCD me thinks.
    Hey DJ, beyond your words being pot calling kettle black, you're also replying to yourself -- telling yourself you're onto something.

    Now don't construe this to be me saying you're wrong. Indeed you ARE onto something!
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  92. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Pillow fight!!!!!!
    Fify
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  93. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Except when he breaks his, and needs surgery.
    That's my issue not yours. You aren't paying my health insurance.

  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    That's my issue not yours. You aren't paying my health insurance.
    You don't understand how insurance works, do you?

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurosquatch View Post
    This has nothing to do with your crazy noob claims:

    "a geared MTB rider covers 4x the distance of a SS MTB rider in an hour"

    "SS bikes are better and faster than multi-geared bikes" (nobody ever claimed that, it is your extreme noobishness, coupled with a lack of reading comprehension, that caused you to make that leap all on your own)

    While I could certainly drive around all day in only 3rd or 4th gear (my torque peaks at 2700 rpm and I can certainly rev and start in those gears and still vastly exceed the speed limit on the top end of each and I sure do know a little bit about driving) those facts have nothing at all to do with your noob claims and misunderstandings about why many SS riders are faster than folks on gearies.
    Was I unclear when I said my "crazy noob claim" was not meant as a de facto statement?
    Perhaps I was. Ill clarify: "My reference to distance versus time was not meant as a de facto statement".
    Is that clear enough?

    So, you are a super-skilled driver. Would you care to race your car against an identical car for a set distance and see who gets to the end first?
    You launch and stay in 3rd gear. The other car uses the full range of gears.

    You would win, right?

  96. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    That's my issue not yours. You aren't paying my health insurance.
    The people who are paying for your potential injury are all of the people paying your insurance company and not getting injured. That's how insurance works, the company makes tons of money from people who never need to use it. That money is then used on the people who do get sick or injured.

  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    You don't understand how insurance works, do you?

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Yeah. It's based on "risk" and "use".

    If I have an accident it does effect rates.

    But as I have stated mountain biking Carries that risk inherently.

    But I also pay my health insurance.

    So if you have an accident you effect my rate too.

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Was I unclear when I said my "crazy noob claim" was not meant as a de facto statement?
    Perhaps I was. Ill clarify: "My reference to distance versus time was not meant as a de facto statement".
    Is that clear enough?
    You weren't saying that in the other thread. You were arguing it as a de facto statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
    The people who are paying for your potential injury are all of the people paying your insurance company and not getting injured. That's how insurance works, the company makes tons of money from people who never need to use it. That money is then used on the people who do get sick or injured.

    Right and I have repeatedly stated I am have not exceeded my skills or the bike which I have 9 years of use on.

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Right and I have repeatedly stated I am have not exceeded my skills or the bike which I have 9 years of use on.
    The fact that you've been riding a department store bike for 9 years means you can ignore everyone else in this thread. Save robbnj, possibly.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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