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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Fold how?

    But like I said it's not a deal killer if they are not strong enough.Attachment 1226356
    The clamping force of the brake would basically turn the wheel into a lever, and applying that rotational force to the cheap pot-metal frame would twist it right up!

    Or something like that.
    Cool heads prevail

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post

    Also there is a 1" threaded to 1 1/8" adapter from genuine bike products. I will have to measure to be sure.
    I think that would be for using a 1" fork on a bike with a 1-1/8" head tube, not the other way around. If they have figured out how to make a 1-1/8" tube fit inside a tube with a 1" inside diameter, that would be quite a trick.

    Realize too, if you rig on disc brakes, you'll need new wheels as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I think that would be for using a 1" fork on a bike with a 1-1/8" head tube, not the other way around. If they have figured out how to make a 1-1/8" tube fit inside a tube with a 1" inside diameter, that would be quite a trick.

    Realize too, if you rig on disc brakes, you'll need new wheels as well.
    With this headset, you can run an 1 1/8 NON-Tapered fork in an older bike that normally takes a American "Standard" 1" threaded headset**

    Genuine Bicycle Produsts: Parts and Accesories.

  4. #204
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    Probably need new ones anyway. They are 9 years old.

  5. #205
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    I edited and added some more thoughts to my last post which might be of value.

    https://forums.mtbr.com/general-disc...l#post13896185

    I can guarantee you that taking a cheap, low-quality bike and adapting it to modern standards is going to cost you time, money, and headache that you'll end up regretting. any decent bike shop-quality bike that was made within the past 15 years is going to cost less, work better, last longer, and give you fewer headaches. I am not sure why you're so insistent on polishing a turd.

  6. #206
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    But to be honest. Disc brakes for my current level of riding hasn't been necessary.

    Those could wait a while till the new frame arrives.

    Also, I wouldn't take it to a shop as I know how much the shops having to deal with liability and such for things that would be considered "unsafe".

    Beside, if I do anything... I will do my own work.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    With this headset, you can run an 1 1/8 NON-Tapered fork in an older bike that normally takes a American "Standard" 1" threaded headset**

    Genuine Bicycle Produsts: Parts and Accesories.


    Interesting, it says it's for "Schwinn" 1" head tubes which isn't the same as yours though.


    This is going to be the most expensive cheap bike ever.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  8. #208
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    Funny... schwinn, huffy, and mongoose are all Pacifics brands. Also read further...

    "Fits old Schwinns and other American cruiser bikes, some bmx bikes and some older mountain bikes. This means it won't fit everything,*you'll have to measure the inside diameter of your head tube to see if it will work"

    Which I stated I will need to measure to make sure.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Interesting, it says it's for "Schwinn" 1" head tubes which isn't the same as yours though.


    This is going to be the most expensive cheap bike ever.

    expensive, yes. it looks like that headset is for frames made with the old American standard headtubes. I have run into stuff like this a few times in the co-op and bike shops: Schwinn had a few of their own "standards" for a while in the middle of the last century. seat tubes and head tubes had their own sizing. they had "S-6" sized rims and tires that were nominally 26 inches but you could not put any other standard 26er tire on them. you can still find S-6 tires but there are only a few models still in production.

  10. #210
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    No offense but you are sounding like a used car salesman.

    I appreciate what you are "trying" to say, however it's a broken record. "Buy buy buy".

    And again you don't know "how" I would use this bike.

    And "most expensive bike?"

    Not when you have bikes that are about the same price as a new motorcycle.

  11. #211
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    If this is a troll thread, it's way more engaging than #turkeychallenge.

    Did you read the thread about the Equator bike that I posted earlier?

    https://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-fre...ke-625231.html

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    This is also an option if needed.
    Attachment 1226357
    You're going to put a $200+ adpater on a bike that's barely worth $100?
    You know you need a new wheel as well as another kit to modify the hub on that wheel so it fits in the frame?

    It would cost you probably ~$350-400 minimum to get a disc working on the back of your bike. That makes a lot of sense.

    I've picked up used bikes from our local LBS consignment sales for less than $200 where many of the individual components are worth more than any Huffy on the planet.

    Ever hear the expression "penny wise / pound foolish"? Yeah...
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  13. #213
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    Yeah, stuff isn't free, and decent stuff costs more than junk. Nothing novel about that. Buy buy buy! (By that, I mean buy useful, durable, and moderately priced stuff instead of being penny-wise and dollar-fooling with poor choices.)

    Go for it. All of it. Keep posting updates with a running record of how much you spend on it, including the tools you have to buy. If you can pull it off, we'll be impressed.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    No offense but you are sounding like a used car salesman.

    I appreciate what you are "trying" to say, however it's a broken record. "Buy buy buy".
    And you seem to be all about buying stuff, just for some reason you insist on all of it being shitty. Another adapter that's worth as much as your entire bike...why the obsession with junk? You've listed off well over $1000 worth of crap you're wanting to buy to hang on a junker, yet you're somehow pissed off about people who aren't as stupid or impatient spending that same amount on an actual decent product.

    Derrrr.....
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    No offense but you are sounding like a used car salesman.

    I appreciate what you are "trying" to say, however it's a broken record. "Buy buy buy".

    And again you don't know "how" I would use this bike.

    And "most expensive bike?"

    Not when you have bikes that are about the same price as a new motorcycle.
    I agree with others who say this is a troll thread... but I will oblige. You can buy a cheap bike to ride on the trails and commute with, then spent $1000 in parts to make it "better"... or you can not be completely retarded and just buy something like a Karate Monkey for $1500.

    When it's time for you to buy a new car, do you go on Craigslist and get a 1976 Pinto and upgrade it as you see fit? Or do you buy a car that actually makes sense...

  16. #216
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    Cool heads prevail

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Funny... schwinn, huffy, and mongoose are all Pacifics brands. Also read further...

    "Fits old Schwinns and other American cruiser bikes, some bmx bikes and some older mountain bikes. This means it won't fit everything,*you'll have to measure the inside diameter of your head tube to see if it will work"

    Which I stated I will need to measure to make sure.

    If it fits an old Schwinn it won't fit on your bike, no need to measure.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    I agree with others who say this is a troll thread... but I will oblige. You can buy a cheap bike to ride on the trails and commute with, then spent $1000 in parts to make it "better"... or you can not be completely retarded and just buy something like a Karate Monkey for $1500.

    When it's time for you to buy a new car, do you go on Craigslist and get a 1976 Pinto and upgrade it as you see fit? Or do you buy a car that actually makes sense...
    That's you analogy?

    "Buy a $1500" that's worth more than the pinto?

    Hell I have gotten running cars for less than that.

  19. #219
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    You could spend less than $200 on a used *quality* bike and be miles ahead of your current quest to polish a turd.

    I looked up "modified Ford Pinto" and I recommend you do the same. Some people have too much time on their hands.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    And you seem to be all about buying stuff, just for some reason you insist on all of it being shitty. Another adapter that's worth as much as your entire bike...why the obsession with junk? You've listed off well over $1000 worth of crap you're wanting to buy to hang on a junker, yet you're somehow pissed off about people who aren't as stupid or impatient spending that same amount on an actual decent product.

    Derrrr.....
    It would be closer to $750 with the addition of the frame... but over time.

    Instead of dropping down $1500 as was suggested.

  21. #221
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    How tall are you and where, approximately, do you live? I'll bet I can find half a dozen suitable bikes for you in ten minutes that cost close to that A-Z brake adapter.

    Yes, spending $1500 on a quality bike would be wise, but not necessary. A new bike for under $600 at your local bike shop would be fine.

    Please, continue your project. Make a blog about it. I want to see how it goes.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    That's you analogy?

    "Buy a $1500" that's worth more than the pinto?

    Hell I have gotten running cars for less than that.
    If you are so strapped for cash that you can't save up for a bit to throw $1500 at your hobby, then maybe mountain biking isn't for you. I say do whatever you are going to do with the Schwinn, and I encourage you to post videos of you riding it.

    Some hobbies are more expensive than others. I don't make enough money to build Formula 1 cars, but you don't see me on Formula 1 forums asking how I can slowly build up a race car out of a Gremlin.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    This is also an option if needed.
    Attachment 1226357
    I actually don't think disc brakes would be on my wish-list even if I could just bolt them on. If the wheels are in decent shape, and you're not riding mud and ice all the time, the direct pull brakes have plenty of power...especially for a smaller rider. In fact, it seems the bike meets your needs as it sits. If it was mine, I'd re-grease all the bearings and maybe drop a couple of dollars on decent stainless cables and housings to get the best shifting and braking possible. I might change out the tires if it made practical sense for commuting. There's never a good reason to suffer a saddle that's uncomfortable (on any bike at any price point). I can't think of another place on that bike that I'd spend my money.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  24. #224
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    Why you happen to have one right?

    And yes they do... but you can say that for any one and any car.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    I actually don't think disc brakes would be on my wish-list even if I could just bolt them on. If the wheels are in decent shape, and you're not riding mud and ice all the time, the direct pull brakes have plenty of power...especially for a smaller rider. In fact, it seems the bike meets your needs as it sits. If it was mine, I'd re-grease all the bearings and maybe drop a couple of dollars on decent stainless cables and housings to get the best shifting and braking possible. I might change out the tires if it made practical sense for commuting. There's never a good reason to suffer a saddle that's uncomfortable (on any bike at any price point). I can't think of another place on that bike that I'd spend my money.
    I said disc wasn't exact high on the wishlist and could wait for the new frame.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    It would be closer to $750 with the addition of the frame... but over time.

    Instead of dropping down $1500 as was suggested.


    So why not just ride your bike stock and put all the money you would have spent on "upgrades" into a piggy-bank instead? When it's full enough you could buy a much nicer bike than your "upgraded" department store bike and spend less money in the process.

    Not comprehending value is one reason why some poor people stay poor.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    If you are so strapped for cash that you can't save up for a bit to throw $1500 at your hobby, then maybe mountain biking isn't for you. I say do whatever you are going to do with the Schwinn, and I encourage you to post videos of you riding it.

    Some hobbies are more expensive than others. I don't make enough money to build Formula 1 cars, but you don't see me on Formula 1 forums asking how I can slowly build up a race car out of a Gremlin.
    It isn't about "being poor" though for some it is.

    The point is building. I can drop a hundred here or there easily. And even just debating in this thread i have discovered a few interesting parts and peices that are worth some investing.

    But also my riding skills aren't as abusive.

    As I stated, I am not going balls in on this. I am investing more time than money in the long run.

    And as I build better bikes over time and learn to take tougher trails and learn technical trails I can ride with confidence that I am less likely to make a mistake and destroy a $750 or a $1500 if my skill improves.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    So why not just ride your bike stock and put all the money you would have spent on "upgrades" into a piggy-bank instead? When it's full enough you could buy a much nicer bike than your "upgraded" department store bike and spend less money in the process.

    Not comprehending value is one reason why some poor people stay poor.
    Read below.

  29. #229
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    You are clearly very stubborn. This forum is not going to help you make decisions we all know are objectively bad ones, so you're probably wasting your time here. I suggest you stop wasting time and get started on the project. The bike is not going to build itself!

    If you want objectively good, helpful advice that comes from a concerned person who wants to see people enjoy riding bikes, I will personally help you find a solid used bike that costs half of what your polished turd project will cost and get you out riding much sooner.

    So I'll ask one more time: how tall are you and where, approximately, do you live? If you won't accept help, please be on your way because you're wasting your time and annoying/ amusing others are the same time.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    A new bike for under $600 at your local bike shop would be fine.
    Or a used one for half that, or less even.

    Hell, I've picked up bikes at the dump and off the side of the road that were FAR FAR better candidates for riding/upgrading than Wally World crappers.
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  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    You are clearly very stubborn. This forum is not going to help you make decisions we all know are objectively bad ones, so you're probably wasting your time here. I suggest you stop wasting time and get started on the project. The bike is not going to build itself!

    If you want objectively good, helpful advice that comes from a concerned person who wants to see people enjoy riding bikes, I will personally help you find a solid used bike that costs half of what your polished turd project will cost and get you out riding much sooner.

    So I'll ask one more time: how tall are you and where, approximately, do you live? If you won't accept help, please be on your way because you're wasting your time and annoying/ amusing others are the same time.

    I stated in the original post what would be said.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Or a used one for half that, or less even.

    Hell, I've picked up bikes at the dump and off the side of the road that were FAR FAR better candidates for riding/upgrading than Wally World crappers.
    Already addressed that. I don't trust people easily.

  33. #233
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  34. #234
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    You're free to do foolish things, just don't expect anyone to validate your foolishness. Keep us updated on the project.

  35. #235
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    I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that some of you must have OCD to have spent so much time on this subject. Coming back for more hourly to prove a point on a never ending worthless battle.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Already addressed that. I don't trust people easily.
    Then why are you asking strangers on a forum for advice? Go figure it out on your own. The advice of combined decades and decades of experience from the members of this forum is clearly not good enough for you.

  37. #237
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    I have that kind of OCD. It's like watching a child carress an electric outlet with a butter knife and saying Don't do that, and then watching them do it anyway. I have to keep coming back to check if he's still being self-destructive.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    It isn't about "being poor" though for some it is.

    The point is building. I can drop a hundred here or there easily. And even just debating in this thread i have discovered a few interesting parts and peices that are worth some investing.

    But also my riding skills aren't as abusive.

    As I stated, I am not going balls in on this. I am investing more time than money in the long run.

    And as I build better bikes over time and learn to take tougher trails and learn technical trails I can ride with confidence that I am less likely to make a mistake and destroy a $750 or a $1500 if my skill improves.


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  39. #239
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    OP:
    Here are a handful of options that are within an hour of your location, based on your user profile here. These would be better foundations from which to build your bike, and all could likely be purchased for less than $150. In most cases, these may be rideable and perfectly suitable to your needs as they currently sit, without any upgrades. If you do decide you want to customize and learn to work on the bike, they are still a better foundation on which to build and experiment than what you have now. Ride your current bike the way it is and do not throw any more money at it.

    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/tre...751123396.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/tre...752373754.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/bri...744988000.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/fuj...744960085.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/ros...752370400.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/par...752369928.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/tre...751684220.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/tre...751687822.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/mar...740701904.html
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/gia...749609066.html

    and if you want to build yur bike from scratch, this looks like a decent frame:
    https://kpr.craigslist.org/bik/d/zio...732740025.html

    Keep in mind that these may not all fit, so you will need to eliminate the options that are the wrong size.
    Last edited by sgltrak; 1 Week Ago at 09:06 AM. Reason: typo

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    You are clearly very stubborn. This forum is not going to help you make decisions we all know are objectively bad ones, so you're probably wasting your time here. I suggest you stop wasting time and get started on the project. The bike is not going to build itself!

    If you want objectively good, helpful advice that comes from a concerned person who wants to see people enjoy riding bikes, I will personally help you find a solid used bike that costs half of what your polished turd project will cost and get you out riding much sooner.

    So I'll ask one more time: how tall are you and where, approximately, do you live? If you won't accept help, please be on your way because you're wasting your time and annoying/ amusing others are the same time.
    I'm not sure he or she is asking for advice.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  41. #241
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    This entire thread has absolutely nothing to do with the title.

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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Probably need new ones anyway. They are 9 years old.
    You might as well upgrade to 29" wheels while you're at it!
    Cool heads prevail

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    You might as well upgrade to 29" wheels while you're at it!
    You think those would fit in a 26" Schwinn frame? If so, OP needs to add them to his list of awesome upgrades. Right below non-square tapered cranks and brazing disc mounts onto the frame.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    That's you analogy?

    "Buy a $1500" that's worth more than the pinto?

    Hell I have gotten running cars for less than that.
    You're not seeking out input from anyone it appears; rather, you're making a statement about the price and quality of bike gear.

    Keep us posted on your build and how it works out for you.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    You think those would fit in a 26" Schwinn frame? If so, OP needs to add them to his list of awesome upgrades. Right below non-square tapered cranks and brazing disc mounts onto the frame.
    He could simply find a 29" rear triangle to bolt up to his current frame, which might even have disc tabs already there! Then just switch out the front forks to 29", easy peasy!
    Cool heads prevail

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    He could simply find a 29" rear triangle to bolt up to his current frame, which might even have disc tabs already there! Then just switch out the front forks to 29", easy peasy!
    Oh I like where this is going... he could also get a new 29er fork. Though new squish forks are tapered, so he's going to need to cut the head tube off the Schwinn and braze on a 49mm one. Totally possible!

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    I'm not sure he or she is asking for advice.
    Actually I wasn't, I was pointing out the ridiculous fact that when an individual wants to learn building, in parallel with their skill, its shut down and demanded to "buy".

    They seem to miss the fact it is a 9 year old bike that I have owned for that time., sees "wide" logging roads and abandoned railroad tracks.

    They "assume" I am just going to jump in with both feet and hit narrow trail lines with trees and massive obstacles and jumps.

    Instead of maybe putting a few parts on, and going out on a pasture with a few more obstinate, narrow riding area but an open space for me to screw up and build my skill.

    Then once the frame is changed then I might go try riding a flat trail with obstacles and trees. If I can manage to stay on a cow trail.

    And I can justify building a $1500 bike that I have a bit of confidence I won't destroy.

    But that wasn't what was said.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Already addressed that. I don't trust people easily.
    You seem fine trusting Chinese welders making $1 an hour.

    Seems to me that this entire thread is less about bike issues than mental health issues.
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  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Oh I like where this is going... he could also get a new 29er fork. Though new squish forks are tapered, so he's going to need to cut the head tube off the Schwinn and braze on a 49mm one. Totally possible!
    I think they make a kit for swapping out tapered steerers for 1" straight on suspension forks, so no need to replace the head tube on the frame.
    Cool heads prevail

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    You're not seeking out input from anyone it appears; rather, you're making a statement about the price and quality of bike gear.

    Keep us posted on your build and how it works out for you.
    I will. Thanks

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I have that kind of OCD. It's like watching a child carress an electric outlet with a butter knife and saying Don't do that, and then watching them do it anyway. I have to keep coming back to check if he's still being self-destructive.
    You're nuts!!!


    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mack_turtle again.
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    At the shop I work at we have what we call the 'department store tune.' It is $120 and it is a required fee to do ANYTHING to one of those bikes. This policy was created because nearly every time we got one of those bikes in for something simple like a derailleur adjustment (which is normally $15) it would turn into a huge fiasco trying to get it adjusted halfway decent... And even then it wouldn't work properly. They are disposable bikes, not built to be repaired - just replaced.

    Every now and again someone doesn't get the hint that the bike didn't cost $120 so you shouldn't spend $120 (plus parts) to fix it. We make it very clear that it's a sub-par bike and will still be sub-par when we are done with it, then we do our best to make it run decent. Given the reactions people have when their shitty bike is still shitty after we put a couple hours into it (and they spend ~$200) I won't be surprised if we stop working on them at all soon... It just never ends well.

    You can say we are being jerks all you want, but this comes directly from the best mechanic I've ever known. If he can't make one of those bikes run decent relative to the time and money he puts into it, I'm sorry but there's no way you can.

  53. #253
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    Are you interested in tinkering with a bike, or riding it? I like tinkering too, but the path you're set on is going to be almost entirely tinkering and no riding. You've made up your mind though, so stop posting and get to work.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Actually I wasn't, I was pointing out the ridiculous fact that when an individual wants to learn building, in parallel with their skill, its shut down and demanded to "buy".

    They seem to miss the fact it is a 9 year old bike that I have owned for that time., sees "wide" logging roads and abandoned railroad tracks.

    They "assume" I am just going to jump in with both feet and hit narrow trail lines with trees and massive obstacles and jumps.

    Instead of maybe putting a few parts on, and going out on a pasture with a few more obstinate, narrow riding area but an open space for me to screw up and build my skill.

    Then once the frame is changed then I might go try riding a flat trail with obstacles and trees. If I can manage to stay on a cow trail.

    And I can justify building a $1500 bike that I have a bit of confidence I won't destroy.

    But that wasn't what was said.
    Dude the real problem is this is a mountain bike forum and you aren't mountain biking.

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    So I have been looking for "junk bike" builds and upgrades for bikes you would buy at the big box stores.

    And do you know what I see in nearly every one?

    "Don't waste your time, waste your money"

    Either the argument is "unsafe, too heavy, or the parts cost more than the bike"

    Well let me remind you of some mountain bike history. People like me used junk bikes, parts from vehicles and other things to create this past time.

    The used drum brakes, they were steel constructed bikes, were ridden for hundreds of miles and improved.

    What many of the "elite" super bike owners seem to forget is that much like jeeps, they were "built not bought".

    In fact as an individual that grew up with the birth of BMX mass marketing in the 70's and the easy access to "mountain bikes" in the late 80's I will say, I haven't seen much improvement over the last 40 years. Hell the tech you are running today is 40 to 60 years old.

    The irony is the heavy bike argument stinks of lack of intestinal fortitude.

    Seriously. Men and women go and train with 40's of dead weight on their backs for miles. Yet you can't peddle a 40/50 lb contraption that actually multiplies your effort?

    Add in many of you seem to think everyone rides as hard as you say you do.

    We I don't believe half that hype.

    But let's also not forget that there are individuals like myself that can't and won't drop $500 on a bike in a single shot.

    I will buy a $100 big brand bike, use it as a daily rider. When I get $200 I'll invest in new front forks, neck and handle bars, then get a set of hybrid tires for road and trail riding.

    Then maybe invest in new brakes, gears, and derailleurs.

    Then I might drop on some dressing to clean it up. Like lock cap grips. Carbon fiber looking cable covers.

    Then, if I really feel froggy, I might upgrade to disk brakes.

    Then... I can enjoy the bike year round, not worry that I am driving a "Ferrari" grade bike to work, and condition my muscles for heavier trails.

    Then... if I am really getting into it, and I can support the habit. I might go find a better grade of frame at a bike shop or pawn shop used.

    Then... use the parts I have, install them on the frame, and maybe put the "junk bike back together as my "work bike".

    Then, i stay in condition, and will likely be much more physically prepared and have more stamina and not hit muscle failure on the more challenging trails.

    The irony is, you bitch about 20 to 30 lbs more when the worlds lightest mountain bike is just shy of 14lb and there is only 1 and it was a bike that was bought then hand modified to reach that.

    I believe all of you "light weights" seem to think a 20 to 30 lb difference improved your actual fitness. Sorry... nope.

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet... I don't get to ride the flats in eastern oregon.

    But... I don't hear any of you "trail bosses" talking about the benefits of using a heavier bike.

    As for safety. I have not seen a "frame brake" I have seen necks and forks and derailleurs brake. But most of those failures were related to a 200 lb gorilla or very "hard" abusive rides. Which yeah it's going to break. But what I have heard from a few is "that is what you pay for".

    Yep it is. Because that's why the market for upgrade parts exists.

    I don't care if its $100 or $8,000. Parts brake and we always want more.

    So as a warning on any future posts by myself or others on "junk bike building" I will point you here.

    Thanks and I hope you dial the snobbery down. Even PC building isn't this bad.

    Now go and ride.. maybe while you are at it you can help find something new to add to the tech development In biking and mountain biking.

    I hope I can.
    What prompted this "outburst"?

    "Junk bike" building is what it is. It can't be legitimately compared to riding modern bikes. I know. I built "junk" bikes for years for dirt jumps and off-road. At the time when my weight (and I like to think my strength) overwhelmed the "best" junk bike I could muster, leaving in its wake broken and bent pedals, crank arms, handlebars, rims, headsets, handlebar stems, forks..., I self-imposed some austerity measures, borrowed $200, and bought myself a new 32# mountain bike for $450. That was 1990. I still have it as a memento.

    To compare that rigid bike to my current rigid bike, they are only the same in that they are bicycles.

    The new bike has better tires, better brakes, improved frame geometry (=better handling!), better bearing seals (godsend!), better headset (yay!), better handlebars, hydroformed steel frame tubes, wider gearing, more compact shifters, and weighs 5# less even as it rolls on 29" tires... mostly due to improvements in manufacturing and design. <----This is where all the new technology is applied.
    Add in advancements in materials, and the development of a real understanding of suspension kinematics (and all the math to back it up), plus a wide spectrum of failure modes that I think the industry has used to further qualify new designs, and we as riders reap the benefits (despite some fickle "standards" of late).

    The ghost of my old junk bike rattles to pieces in the face of that. And not one piece from the new bike is compatible with it, except the saddle, and hand grips.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I think they make a kit for swapping out tapered steerers for 1" straight on suspension forks, so no need to replace the head tube on the frame.
    That's a good way to do it so he won't have to spend money on a new neck.
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  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Actually I wasn't, I was pointing out the ridiculous fact that when an individual wants to learn building, in parallel with their skill, its shut down and demanded to "buy".

    They seem to miss the fact it is a 9 year old bike that I have owned for that time., sees "wide" logging roads and abandoned railroad tracks.

    They "assume" I am just going to jump in with both feet and hit narrow trail lines with trees and massive obstacles and jumps.

    Instead of maybe putting a few parts on, and going out on a pasture with a few more obstinate, narrow riding area but an open space for me to screw up and build my skill.

    Then once the frame is changed then I might go try riding a flat trail with obstacles and trees. If I can manage to stay on a cow trail.

    And I can justify building a $1500 bike that I have a bit of confidence I won't destroy.

    But that wasn't what was said.
    Even with this response, you're going about it the wrong way. My single speed hard tail was built from the ground up, and it ended up costing me way more than if I had found a complete. That's why people feel pushed towards just buying, because when you start getting into the weeds of hand picking your own parts it always comes out more expensive. Even when you're trying to be cheap. A couple seasons ago I built a fixed gear 29er to experiment with, and since I wasn't sure if I would like it I bought as cheap as I could. Most of the parts for that build were cheap parts that were also on sale for Black Friday through Jenson and CompetitiveCyclist. That low level, super minimal fixed gear build still cost me $1500.

    Second point; it takes very little skill and effort to build a bicycle. So you're not learning any great life skills there, you could learn just as much ordering a complete bike online and putting it together yourself.

    Third point; if you're a new rider there's absolutely zero chance you're going to "destroy" something like a Karate Monkey. Unless you intentionally throw it off a large cliff (probably would even survive that) then no amount of bad riding is going to break anything... and it's $1500. $1500 and you don't have to worry about anything. Just go ride it.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    You seem fine trusting Chinese welders making $1 an hour.

    Seems to me that this entire thread is less about bike issues than mental health issues.
    There is a difference... first "how I ride" second there is still a standard and system to address them.

    Something second hand buying doesn't.

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Dude the real problem is this is a mountain bike forum and you aren't mountain biking.
    Nailed it! /thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    That's a good way to do it so he won't have to spend money on a new neck.
    Cool heads prevail

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Even with this response, you're going about it the wrong way. My single speed hard tail was built from the ground up, and it ended up costing me way more than if I had found a complete. That's why people feel pushed towards just buying, because when you start getting into the weeds of hand picking your own parts it always comes out more expensive. Even when you're trying to be cheap. A couple seasons ago I built a fixed gear 29er to experiment with, and since I wasn't sure if I would like it I bought as cheap as I could. Most of the parts for that build were cheap parts that were also on sale for Black Friday through Jenson and CompetitiveCyclist. That low level, super minimal fixed gear build still cost me $1500.

    Second point; it takes very little skill and effort to build a bicycle. So you're not learning any great life skills there, you could learn just as much ordering a complete bike online and putting it together yourself.

    Third point; if you're a new rider there's absolutely zero chance you're going to "destroy" something like a Karate Monkey. Unless you intentionally throw it off a large cliff (probably would even survive that) then no amount of bad riding is going to break anything... and it's $1500. $1500 and you don't have to worry about anything. Just go ride it.
    You obviously missed all the bike break videos that had several very expensive bikes break.

  61. #261
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    Not yet.

  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    You obviously missed all the bike break videos that had several very expensive bikes break.
    I am so disappointed in myself for getting dragged into this thread...

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    There is a difference... first "how I ride" second there is still a standard and system to address them.

    Something second hand buying doesn't.
    Having worked on my own bikes for 30+ years now, including building dozens of 'giveaway' bikes from scavenged parts, I've found it's not really all that hard to tell if something is junk or not. I would think that anyone with even a modicum of common sense and a bare minimum of mechanical experience could tell the difference.

    But then again, this thread exists, so I guess I'm expecting too much of people again.
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  64. #264
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    I feel like the more you hear 'this is a bad idea,' the more certain you are that it's a good idea.

    Do you agree? Why is that?
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  65. #265
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    How much progress have you made in the past week? How much time have you spent on this thread?

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    How much progress have you made in the past week? How much time have you spent on this thread?
    Hey, brazing disc mounts onto an aluminum frame takes time. Give the guy a break!

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Having worked on my own bikes for 30+ years now, including building dozens of 'giveaway' bikes from scavenged parts, I've found it's not really all that hard to tell if something is junk or not. I would think that anyone with even a modicum of common sense and a bare minimum of mechanical experience could tell the difference.

    But then again, this thread exists, so I guess I'm expecting too much of people again.
    Actually it's not easy. If it were shops would offer frame inspection as a package.

    In fact a cannondale rider had a crack in his rear fork on the brake mount that needed pointing out.

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    How much progress have you made in the past week? How much time have you spent on this thread?
    Actually this thread is only 3 days old, but I replaced my shifters and cables for what worth.

    I have also looked up a few bike shops that sell new bare frames and components.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Hey, brazing disc mounts onto an aluminum frame takes time. Give the guy a break!
    The front and rear forks are steel the frame is aluminum.

    You might have noticed that if you seen the rust.

    Which should have been easy compared to seeing a cable in bike spokes that were the same color.

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    At the shop I work at we have what we call the 'department store tune.' It is $120 and it is a required fee to do ANYTHING to one of those bikes. This policy was created because nearly every time we got one of those bikes in for something simple like a derailleur adjustment (which is normally $15) it would turn into a huge fiasco trying to get it adjusted halfway decent... And even then it wouldn't work properly. They are disposable bikes, not built to be repaired - just replaced.

    Every now and again someone doesn't get the hint that the bike didn't cost $120 so you shouldn't spend $120 (plus parts) to fix it. We make it very clear that it's a sub-par bike and will still be sub-par when we are done with it, then we do our best to make it run decent. Given the reactions people have when their shitty bike is still shitty after we put a couple hours into it (and they spend ~$200) I won't be surprised if we stop working on them at all soon... It just never ends well.

    You can say we are being jerks all you want, but this comes directly from the best mechanic I've ever known. If he can't make one of those bikes run decent relative to the time and money he puts into it, I'm sorry but there's no way you can.





    The shop I worked in wouldn't even work on them.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I feel like the more you hear 'this is a bad idea,' the more certain you are that it's a good idea.

    Do you agree? Why is that?
    Because we're all sheep! Going against commonly accepted best practices as identified by experts in the field is what any truly intelligent person would do!

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Actually it's not easy. If it were shops would offer frame inspection as a package.
    Mine does.

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    There is a difference... first "how I ride" second there is still a standard and system to address them.

    Something second hand buying doesn't.
    Don't be afraid of second hand purchases. There are few used hardtail bike issues that can't be repaired easily and fairly inexpensively, even if the seller had abused the bike and hidden the issues (which most don't).

    The last time I bought a brand new bike was 1993, and in the intervening years I have bought only used bikes (a couple of dozen of them). I have never encountered an unexpected or hidden issue with any of the dozens of used bikes I've purchased. Between 5 current mountain bikes and 1 current road bike, I have an average of nearly 4000 miles per bike. The only "used bike" issue I have encountered was one small frame crack on one bike that developed after I bought the bike. It was easily and inexpensively repaired.

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    The shop I worked in wouldn't even work on them.
    I think that's probably the right call. Most need at least $200 worth of work to be rideable, but still shitty, while a new bike that comes with lifetime tune ups can be had from us for ~$350. No brainer.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I feel like the more you hear 'this is a bad idea,' the more certain you are that it's a good idea.

    Do you agree? Why is that?
    Quoting because I really want to hear what Hawk has to say about this.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Quoting because I really want to hear what Hawk has to say about this.
    He's not keeping up very well is he?

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Mine does.
    Sorry meant "wouldn't"

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Because we're all sheep! Going against commonly accepted best practices as identified by experts in the field is what any truly intelligent person would do!
    experts - pffft
    science - pffft
    intellegence - pfft
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  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    The shop I worked in wouldn't even work on them.
    Same. We tried to when we first opened, but you can't really tune something that won't hold a tune. After someone had spent as much on a tuneup as 'what a whole bike costs' that bike was our problem forever. The customer couldn't understand we were doing the best with what was an impossible situation, and instead assumed (like Hawk here) that we were idiots.



    I volunteer at a bike co-op now, and i tune BSOs there fairly frequently. It's kinda fun to see how close i can get a BSO to functioning correctly- the drivetrains work pretty good until they get sloppy or abused, bearings adjust just fine, wheels i can get tensioned evenly if i spend a lot of time with them. A BSO with a pro tune feels pretty darn good... for a little while.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Quoting because I really want to hear what Hawk has to say about this.
    What's to say? That's your opinion.

    In fact let's do a full inspection of this "crap" bike.

    You tell me where the week point is.

  81. #281
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    I worked at several shops over the years and we generally turned away those types of bikes. The liability is not worth the risk for a small business.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Sorry meant "wouldn't"
    Not very good logic. Fixing flat tires is stupid simple, yet it's our most common service.

  83. #283
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    Going to attempt to be helpful.

    What about something like this? This going to be massively better then what you have now and certainly a better base to start from.

    Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - Gravity 29 SS Single Speed 29er Mountain Bikes

    Alternately if you are just going down fire roads and the like perhaps consider a cyclocross or gravel bike.

    https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...ocross-nb-cxss

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    In fact let's do a full inspection of this "crap" bike.

    You tell me where the week point is.
    Your bike is just fine for the riding you do, and you should keep learning how to maintain it like you're doing. There really is no more discussion needed until you decide to get into actual mountain biking. You should just walk away from this thread and let it die, then ask questions in new threads about issues you're having with your bike as they come up.
    Cool heads prevail

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    What's to say? That's your opinion.

    In fact let's do a full inspection of this "crap" bike.

    You tell me where the week point is.
    That did not answer the question.

    The opinions you get here are well-informed ones based on decades of experience. Many of us have worked in bicycle shops for years. Upon how many years of experience riding and working full-time in a bicycle shop do you base your perspective?

    We're the most informed experts you're going to find anywhere. Stick to your alternative facts if you like, but no one is going to validate your ignorance for you so you can become a martyr for hard-headedness.

  86. #286
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    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_090158.jpg
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_090139.jpg
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_090134.jpg
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_090126.jpg
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_090054.jpg
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_090042.jpg
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_085948.jpg

  87. #287
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    I can critique in more detail later, but I saw DOZENS of bikes exactly like that (is that an XR-75 or similar?) at the co-op in my time. They all went to the scrapper. Nothing on that bike is worth salvaging for functional purposes. You can spend hours and hours making it kind of function and then the flimsy brake springs give out, the rim bends, the fork bushings die, etc. It's a lost cause. I say this with concern because I would like to see you enjoy riding your bike rather than get frustrated with polishing a turd.

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
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    those pics just prove to me how sad the fall of Mongoose is...even though I know that the current BSO's with the Mongoose sticker are not at all related to the BMX brand from the 70's and 80's...but man, what a tarnishment...
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I can critique in more detail later, but I saw DOZENS of bikes exactly like that (is that an XR-75 or similar?) at the co-op in my time. They all went to the scrapper. Nothing on that bike is worth salvaging for functional purposes. You can spend hours and hours making it kind of function and then the flimsy brake springs give out, the rim bends, the fork bushings die, etc. It's a lost cause. I say this with concern because I would like to see you enjoy riding your bike rather than get frustrated with polishing a turd.
    Just let him go... I want to see that thing with a Pike and some DT wheels on it.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    those pics just prove to me how sad the fall of Mongoose is...even though I know that the current BSO's with the Mongoose sticker are not at all related to the BMX brand from the 70's and 80's...but man, what a tarnishment...
    That coil spring is probably a DVO. Don't be judgy.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    That did not answer the question.

    The opinions you get here are well-informed ones based on decades of experience. Many of us have worked in bicycle shops for years. Upon how many years of experience riding and working full-time in a bicycle shop do you base your perspective?

    We're the most informed experts you're going to find anywhere. Stick to your alternative facts if you like, but no one is going to validate your ignorance for you so you can become a martyr for hard-headedness.
    Look, when you have people post bullshit like "$1500 bikes don't break unless you throw them off a cliff" or that "safety" matters when the sport isn't.

    Then insult individual for "being poor" and insulting in general. I don't believe you are serving the interests of the community.

    Especially when it's been repeatedly stated that I understand the bike has limits. My skill is also limited at the moment. And that I intend to "get" to a "better bike" in time as my riding skills get better. And that I am not pushing any limits or my safety by putting a bike together and learning to maintain my own bike.

    But I believe there is an interest for me to be dependent on the local bike shop for general maintenance. Otherwise you wouldn't have people come to those shops for yearly tune ups and inspections.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post

    You can say we are being jerks all you want, but this comes directly from the best mechanic I've ever known. If he can't make one of those bikes run decent relative to the time and money he puts into it, I'm sorry but there's no way you can.


    I disagree with your mechanic, IME you can usually make a bigger difference in a shorter amount of time tuning up BSO's. Of course the end product is still sub-par but the owners are generally very pleased because their bike leaves the shop running a lot better than it did when it was new.

    Anyway, I've probably tuned 1,000's of those pos's and turned as much profit on them as I did on actual bicycles. And their owners are less finiky.
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  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    those pics just prove to me how sad the fall of Mongoose is...even though I know that the current BSO's with the Mongoose sticker are not at all related to the BMX brand from the 70's and 80's...but man, what a tarnishment...
    To be fair, they also offer some good stuff just not at BSOs. The Legion 100 is one of the best starter BMX bikes

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    That coil spring is probably a DVO. Don't be judgy.
    ooops...sorry
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

    15 Surly Krampus
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  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I can critique in more detail later, but I saw DOZENS of bikes exactly like that (is that an XR-75 or similar?) at the co-op in my time. They all went to the scrapper. Nothing on that bike is worth salvaging for functional purposes. You can spend hours and hours making it kind of function and then the flimsy brake springs give out, the rim bends, the fork bushings die, etc. It's a lost cause. I say this with concern because I would like to see you enjoy riding your bike rather than get frustrated with polishing a turd.
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_081033.jpg

    As stated I've owned it for 9 years

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Look, when you have people post bullshit like "$1500 bikes don't break unless you throw them off a cliff" or that "safety" matters when the sport isn't.

    Then insult individual for "being poor" and insulting in general. I don't believe you are serving the interests of the community.

    Especially when it's been repeatedly stated that I understand the bike has limits. My skill is also limited at the moment. And that I intend to "get" to a "better bike" in time as my riding skills get better. And that I am not pushing any limits or my safety by putting a bike together and learning to maintain my own bike.

    But I believe there is an interest for me to be dependent on the local bike shop for general maintenance. Otherwise you wouldn't have people come to those shops for yearly tune ups and inspections.
    You're misquoting me. I said a $1500 bike isn't going to break AT YOUR SKILL LEVEL. You claim to be a noobie with limited riding skills, but you're worried about a well made legitimate mountain bike breaking on you. I am here to tell you that people ride $1500 legitimate mountain bikes through super chunky rock gardens at mach speed, take big drops and jumps, and wreck hard. If a noobie like yourself broke frames, then the entire mountain bike community would be replacing their frame every 2 months.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    But I believe there is an interest for me to be dependent on the local bike shop for general maintenance. Otherwise you wouldn't have people come to those shops for yearly tune ups and inspections.
    One of the most common bits of advice given on this website has always been 'learn how to do your own work on your bike'.

    Once again, you seem to be arguing mainly with voices in your head.
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  98. #298
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    Someone else used this metaphor earlier, but that is the Ford Pinto of bicycles. I didn't tell you anything that I would not tell a dear friend about their own bike. If you're too dense to listen to reason, I give up. Please let us know how your project goes, but stop wasting your time here, as that time would be better spent working on that bike.

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    You're misquoting me. I said a $1500 bike isn't going to break AT YOUR SKILL LEVEL. You claim to be a noobie with limited riding skills, but you're worried about a well made legitimate mountain bike breaking on you. I am here to tell you that people ride $1500 legitimate mountain bikes through super chunky rock gardens at mach speed, take big drops and jumps, and wreck hard. If a noobie like yourself broke frames, then the entire mountain bike community would be replacing their frame every 2 months.
    You are right, because I haven't broken this "crap bike" in 9 years and at least 18 trips on tougher terrain.

    So by that logic... I am just fine swapping a few parts then getting a "new" higher end bare frame like the Gravity fsx 1.0 then moving up the challenge level to an open pasture to train on narrower trails right?

  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Someone else used this metaphor earlier, but that is the Ford Pinto of bicycles. I didn't tell you anything that I would not tell a dear friend about their own bike. If you're too dense to listen to reason, I give up. Please let us know how your project goes, but stop wasting your time here, as that time would be better spent working on that bike.
    "If you aren't spending money and do as I say go away." Got ya.

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