Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 101 to 200 of 440
  1. #101
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    and if you can't immediately tell what's wrong with that picture, you have no business thrusting your opinion about anything bike-related into the public sphere.

    edit- I just realized there are three things horribly, dangerously wrong with that bike.

    sorry, but mountain biking costs money. for some people, buying a nice bike is pocket change. for others, they have to save up for several months to buy something worthwhile. no one is entitled to become a mountain biker, and no one is being discriminated against because they can't afford a decent bike. as much as that sucks for poor people, it does not make crappy bikes any less likely to break, not perform safely, and end up being a way to flush money down the toilet.
    Hey Mack, is the third thing the 6Ē of excess brake cable dangling? I imagine that could get sucked into a rotor hole while the front wheel is spinning (assuming it was installed correctly) and potentially stop the wheel in the same manner as a frame pump jammed into the spokes.

    If thing #3 isnít that, Iím at a loss.
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  2. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    As it sits yes, but even when the disc is in, likely they won't pinch fully. As there appears to be a fair bit of slack between the pull arms

  3. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Hey Mack, is the third thing the 6Ē of excess brake cable dangling?
    winner! You're Italian, aren't you? Or do they just use their pumps to shift other bikes' gears?

    threads like this make me kinda sad. I hope the number of people in the world with this level of persecution delusions is minimal.

  4. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    When I say wrong direction it means the latch is not properly closed. It is pulled in the direction it is suppose to "open" making it easy to "snap" to the open position.

    But also it is leaning against the tube meaning it's barely holding anything.
    Fair enough I did miss that. But again would be noticed once everything else was corrected. Then fixed in a few seconds

  5. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Sorry, the brakes and latch were a bit more immediate issues in my opinion. And yes I missed the cable, but like I said would have been noticed fixing the first 2.

  6. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,400
    nope, wrong answer. you're no longer allowed to comment on bikes. that was the test that everyone has to pass. you can collect your things on the way out. sorry, but I don't think you qualify for the severance package. you have to have six green boxes and 120 posts for that.

  7. #107
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
    Reputation: rideit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,305
    How did Hawk get one reputation point?
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  8. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Thank you for proving my point.

  9. #109
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    How did Hawk get one reputation point?
    Everybody starts with one.
    And I just gave him another for being a good sport.
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  10. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    https://youtu.be/prdqBNPhMFk

    https://youtu.be/vu9IN8X0JOU

    Now many of these are $500+ one is $3000 plus.

    Shit breaks

  11. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Everybody starts with one.
    And I just gave him another for being a good sport.
    =sParty
    Thank you.

  12. #112
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,734
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Hey Mack, is the third thing the 6Ē of excess brake cable dangling? I imagine that could get sucked into a rotor hole while the front wheel is spinning (assuming it was installed correctly) and potentially stop the wheel in the same manner as a frame pump jammed into the spokes.

    If thing #3 isnít that, Iím at a loss.
    =sParty
    Looks like it needs a crimp as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  13. #113
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Shit breaks
    What matters is what exactly was being done to the bikes to cause them to break.

    The thresholds are more than a little different for a department store bike and something intended to be ridden off road. Not to mention the difference between a midlevel hardtail, for example, and a bike meant for dedicated downhill riding.

    Department store bikes are effectively disposable. Not really even worth buying direct replacement parts when you can find these things abandoned at police auctions, in junkyards, and under bridges. Find an abandoned one, buy a whole one for $10 at a garage sale for donor parts, or just buy a brand new one if a part fails.

    It's like consumer grade printers. You can find a whole new one on sale for less than the cost of new ink.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  14. #114
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,893
    Y'all need to just leave. Now. Am I the only one who noticed the cardboard sleeve on this bso from the shipping box?

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  15. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skiahh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,800
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    The OP rides alone.
    No, the OP doesn't ride. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    So you are willing to throw people on a bike, not knowing their skill level and still get hurt?

    No offense, but getting hurt is always a risk.

    One "awe shit" will still ruin your day.

    And there is the next "excuse". Not every rider is going to be doing 18 to 20 foot jumps, not every rider is going to try riding a mountain ridge.

    If they do it the result is the same regardless of the bike... skill is more important.

    Considering even "junk bikes" are still 50 times better than when the sport began.

    In fact most of the tech on your bikes were never tried.

    The sport grew from experimentation and risk.

    Drum brakes and cantilevered brakes weren't even a thing.


    And again, most the issues on $99 bikes are front forks, "stems" and badly adjusted brakes and derailleurs under extreme use.

    The frames while "heavy" are structurally sound.

    And probably safer than the "used mid-grade" at the pawnshop.
    Ummm, wut? Isn't your premise that mountain bikes haven't changed in 40-50 years? Which is it? Junk bikes are better? Or they haven't changed. Experimentation? Or no changes? Brakes weren't even a thing? Or they were on bikes 40-50 years ago and haven't changed?

    As for these $99 frames being structurally sound, I'll let YouTube answer that one. Just search for Walmart bikes or cheap bike fails. Definitely not safer than pawn shop mid grade bikes.

  16. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    461
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    I can't stop laughing at the 2nd crash in that video!!!!

    I started with a $350 GT Avalanche from a bike shop. It lasted 200 miles before the front rim was bent beyond me to bother truing again and after 400 miles the damping in the entry level fork was toast. I did ride it beyond its intended use and it probably would have made it closer to 1,000 miles before having any real issues. None the less a big box store bike wouldn't have lasted 50 miles. I'm not a big rider at 145ish pounds either.

    Unlike a junk department store bike my Avalanche frame was great and strong enough to take a serious beating that single track usually dishes out. So I COULD have upgraded the fork, wheels, brakes and drivetrain like you suggest. However, it probably would have totaled around $2,000 in aftermarket parts that would handle the riding I was doing with it. For $2,000 I could have just bought a new extremely well equipped hard tail instead.

    For any kind of off-road use a department store bike is an absolute waste of time and money. The frames will bend or break in very short order and the components can't handle anything more than riding on smooth pavement. Even then the drive tran will need constant adjustment to keep it working somewhat smoothly.

    The single best bet for those on a tight budget is buying a used entry level bike that's made by a quality bike manufacture. If I were to sell my GT Avalanche I would have asked about $100 for it and even with a blown fork its still a much better and safer ride than a department store bike. I still have the Avalanche, I turned it into a sweet city bike using parts from a local community bike shop that runs on donated parts and volunteer help.

    Everyone needs the bike that fits their riding. If you're capable of riding fast on rough terrain you'll need an expensive bike. There is simply no way around that. Honestly beginners simply don't know what caliber bike is going to be good enough for them. I think 90% start somewhere cheap but within the "real" bike category like I did. Most of those who buy junk bikes end up finding some other activity to do rather than dealing with the headache of a bike that never works.

    Last thing is I honestly think current department store bikes are far worse than a 50's and 60's local bike shop kind of bike. Frames were generally built super strong but heavy. Today's wallytarget bikes have extremely fragile frames.

  17. #117
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    No, the OP doesn't ride. Period.



    Ummm, wut? Isn't your premise that mountain bikes haven't changed in 40-50 years? Which is it? Junk bikes are better? Or they haven't changed. Experimentation? Or no changes? Brakes weren't even a thing? Or they were on bikes 40-50 years ago and haven't changed?

    As for these $99 frames being structurally sound, I'll let YouTube answer that one. Just search for Walmart bikes or cheap bike fails. Definitely not safer than pawn shop mid grade bikes.
    I didn't say it wasn't better, just that the technology hasn't vastly changed in that time.

    I didn't say bikes haven't improved.

  18. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
    I can't stop laughing at the 2nd crash in that video!!!!

    I started with a $350 GT Avalanche from a bike shop. It lasted 200 miles before the front rim was bent beyond me to bother truing again and after 400 miles the damping in the entry level fork was toast. I did ride it beyond its intended use and it probably would have made it closer to 1,000 miles before having any real issues. None the less a big box store bike wouldn't have lasted 50 miles. I'm not a big rider at 145ish pounds either.

    Unlike a junk department store bike my Avalanche frame was great and strong enough to take a serious beating that single track usually dishes out. So I COULD have upgraded the fork, wheels, brakes and drivetrain like you suggest. However, it probably would have totaled around $2,000 in aftermarket parts that would handle the riding I was doing with it. For $2,000 I could have just bought a new extremely well equipped hard tail instead.

    For any kind of off-road use a department store bike is an absolute waste of time and money. The frames will bend or break in very short order and the components can't handle anything more than riding on smooth pavement. Even then the drive tran will need constant adjustment to keep it working somewhat smoothly.

    The single best bet for those on a tight budget is buying a used entry level bike that's made by a quality bike manufacture. If I were to sell my GT Avalanche I would have asked about $100 for it and even with a blown fork its still a much better and safer ride than a department store bike. I still have the Avalanche, I turned it into a sweet city bike using parts from a local community bike shop that runs on donated parts and volunteer help.

    Everyone needs the bike that fits their riding. If you're capable of riding fast on rough terrain you'll need an expensive bike. There is simply no way around that. Honestly beginners simply don't know what caliber bike is going to be good enough for them. I think 90% start somewhere cheap but within the "real" bike category like I did. Most of those who buy junk bikes end up finding some other activity to do rather than dealing with the headache of a bike that never works.

    Last thing is I honestly think current department store bikes are far worse than a 50's and 60's local bike shop kind of bike. Frames were generally built super strong but heavy. Today's wallytarget bikes have extremely fragile frames.
    Now here ya go... "get a USED entry bike" which could be in worse shape than the junk bike. And honestly at the starting price tags, no thanks.

    The fact remains that a used bike likely has it's own issues anyway.

    You "might" get lucky and not ever have an issue. But buying used is just buying someone elses headache.

    My current bike a mongoose dxr al 26er 21 speed I have owned since 2009.

    Its maintained and beaten but still largely stock except for Sram shifters and cables.

    But I am at a point I want a bit more.

    Which at this point would cost:
    Rear Derailleur: $28
    Front derailleur: $25
    MANITOU MARKHOR 26" FORKS: $200
    Schwalbe*Land Cruiser 26" Tyre - K-Guard: $26
    Brake pads: $44
    Crank set: $100
    7 Speed Cassette:$62

    Most of this I can buy in a few months.

    And can transfer it to a new bare frame that would be better.

  19. #119
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Darth Lefty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    891
    Eh, not as good as the MTB drag racing one

  20. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    461
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Now here ya go... "get a USED entry bike" which could be in worse shape than the junk bike. And honestly at the starting price tags, no thanks.

    The fact remains that a used bike likely has it's own issues anyway.

    You "might" get lucky and not ever have an issue. But buying used is just buying someone elses headache.

    My current bike a mongoose dxr al 26er 21 speed I have owned since 2009.

    Its maintained and beaten but still largely stock except for Sram shifters and cables.

    But I am at a point I want a bit more.

    Which at this point would cost:
    Rear Derailleur: $28
    Front derailleur: $25
    MANITOU MARKHOR 26" FORKS: $200
    Schwalbe*Land Cruiser 26" Tyre - K-Guard: $26
    Brake pads: $44
    Crank set: $100
    7 Speed Cassette:$62

    Most of this I can buy in a few months.

    And can transfer it to a new bare frame that would be better.
    I mentioned in my post a used entry level bike like my GT Avalanche 3.0 is still eons better value than buying a $100 to $200 department store bike.

    GT Avalanche used for $100
    -very durable quality frame that should last a lifetime
    -decent wheel set
    -good Shimano groupset
    -reliable disc brakes
    -surdy fork that even works ok with no damping
    -complete bike that is 100% intended for off-road use.
    -capable of being used for a few thousand miles if not ridden to hard with minimal issues.

    Department store bike for $150ish
    -extremely fragile frame made of cheese grade aluminum. Very likely to fail catastrophically on very light trail use (well documented fact).
    -wheels and hubs along the same grade as the frame
    -absolute lowest end drive tran components that don't stay in adjustment and wear out quickly.
    -terrible rim brakes even for rim brake standards
    -a fork that hardly works when new and is completely useless in a very short time of riding off-road. If the frame doesn't break first.
    -a sticker on that frame that says "not for off-road use."
    -not likely to reach 1000 miles ridden without replacing just about everything.

    I'm not making fun of what anyone rides. I love seeing anyone out riding and I love cheap wacky bikes for riding around our small city. I'm just saying (along with everyone else here) that department store bikes are a terrible value. They don't last long and having to upgrade just about anything already puts you in the price range of a better used bike.

  21. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Really? 9 years and daily road use (5.5 miles a day 4 days a week) and occasional off-road use light to medium terrain like abandoned railroad tracks and blue mountain skid trails 2 or 3 times a year as life permits.

    And again, after watching the abuse those bikes and frames are ran through... NOT buying a used frame. In my opinion that's a sucker's bet.

    As for the bare frame, I am considering a gravity fsx frame for about $199 that I would be able to save for and build better as I go.

    By the time I get there yes, I will have a $600 bike. But I won't be dropping $600 all at once.

    And it "could" become a better bike as I get more trail time in

  22. #122
    mtbr member
    Reputation: serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,249
    I would probably trash your 2009 Mongoose bike in a single 8 hour race. And if some strong rider would take it for AM riding, he/she would break it in a single run.

    So ride what you want and how you want, but donít try to sell this nonsense about buying cheap, heavy garbage stuff and making them ďinto better bikesĒ. I understand that not everyone has the money for this sport, but at least recognize that this is about disposable income, passion and what makes us happy. Not about technology, not about being some wizard that can cobble together some crap or any other perceived notions you might have.
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SS
    RM Suzi Q 90 RSL
    KHS Team 29
    S-Works Roubaix
    KHS CX 550 cyclocross

  23. #123
    Bicycles aren't motorized
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,866
    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    I would probably trash your 2009 Mongoose bike in a single 8 hour race. And if some strong rider would take it for AM riding, he/she would break it in a single run.

    So ride what you want and how you want, but donít try to sell this nonsense about buying cheap, heavy garbage stuff and making them ďinto better bikesĒ. I understand that not everyone has the money for this sport, but at least recognize that this is about disposable income, passion and what makes us happy. Not about technology, not about being some wizard that can cobble together some crap or any other perceived notions you might have.





    Ding, ding, ding!!! Winner!
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  24. #124
    the discerning hooligan
    Reputation: MOJO K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,035
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    winner! You're Italian, aren't you?
    CUTTERS
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  25. #125
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,400
    Sometimes you don't know that you don't know what you don't know. This is described by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. There's a very interesting peice about it on the You Are Not So Smart podcast.

    Usually this kind of thing sorts itself out through natural selection. Some types of ignorance die hard though

  26. #126
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,734
    OP, when was the last time you rode a bike other than your Mongoose? It seems you are forming your opinion based on little to no real experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  27. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Scott O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,745
    If they did a remake of Pacific Blue starring the OP and Picard, I would definitely watch it.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  28. #128
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,776
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_chrome View Post
    Even today's $200 Wally World bike is better than anything I had as a kid and I would gladly ride it



    I was at Walmart yesterday and looked at their bikes, I guess they were sold out of their highfalutin $200 ones but the $170 models were the same as they ever were. Crappy frame with a disposable cup and cone bb, disposable cup and cone hubs with a 7 speed freewheel that's garunteed to have a bent axle after 1 or 2 curb jumps, 7 speed grip shifters, $hitty no name front disc and equally $hitty rear v-brake and something up front that looks vaguely similar to a suspension fork.

    Department store bikes are a blight and landfills are full of barely used ones.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  29. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    57
    I say ride what makes you happy. If it breaks it breaks. It's your bike and your injuries if it fails at a bad time. Buy what you like, build it how you like and post some pics taking it off some sweet jumps. Everyone here learned their own way and you should too.

  30. #130
    .
    Reputation: RustyIron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    609
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post

    Well the fact is, I am 135 lb soaking wet...
    Eat your spinach like momma told you. You'll grow up to be big and strong like the rest of us, and maybe someday get yourself a job and buy a modern bike.

  31. #131
    Trail Rider
    Reputation: mlx john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    833


    Trek Fuel EX 9.8
    Trek Checkpoint SL 6

  32. #132
    slow
    Reputation: sgltrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,483
    OP:
    I appreciate your desire to ride the amount of bike you can afford and improve it as you have the means to do so. This is a fiscally responsible way to enjoy this hobby we all love. However, it wouldn't hurt to heed some of the advice in this dicsussion from some knowledgeable folks with quite a bit of experience. Not everyone here is suggesting throwing money at your bike. Go ahead and enjoy what you have if it works for you and don't upgrade parts on it just for the sake of upgrading.

    The advice to start with a better quality used bike over a newer department store bike is good advice. Don't be afraid of purchasing a used, good quality older mtb. Many of these can be bought for $75-$150 and are a much better platform from which to build your bike. Buying someone else's problem happens much less often than you believe, and is rarely the frame (which you could inspect for damage at time of purchase to avoid issues). Usually problems with used bikes are components which you could replace since you are learning to do repairs and looking do upgrades to your bike.

    As I look at your shopping list for your upgrades, I see some places where you've over-budgeted for a few items (example: front derailleur $25 and 7 sp cassette $62). Research quality parts, take your time, and shop carefully at your local bike co-op, craigslist, facebook marketplace, and even the local LBS and you can build a nice, budget friendly, quality bike for your intended riding style. You may not need a "$600 bike" for what you do, so it may not be worth spending $600 on your bike, even if you spend that amount gradually over a period of time. Do keep in mind that many riders here have different needs from their bikes, so their budgets will differ from yours.

    Regarding bike technology, a quick search of historical patents shows the inspiration for many things bike related goes back considerably farther than the '50s and '60s. Campagnolo's first derailleur system was developed in the '30s. There were several suspension designs as early as the 1890s. Chain drive was first used in 1879.
    Shaft drive, belt drive, pinion gear boxes and many other things have been built and patented. Today's bikes are mostly improvements on prior technology.

  33. #133
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Now here ya go... "get a USED entry bike" which could be in worse shape than the junk bike. And honestly at the starting price tags, no thanks.

    The fact remains that a used bike likely has it's own issues anyway.
    Isnít YOUR bike used?
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  34. #134
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,893
    I honestly can't tell if OP is a grumpy 60 year-old or a poor 14 year-old

  35. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,400
    I wonder what OP thinks about helmets.

  36. #136
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I wonder what OP thinks about helmets.
    Buy a junk helmet and when it dies a premature death, move the straps & pads over to the next one.
    =sParty







    Er... I mean if your arms still work.
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  37. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I honestly can't tell if OP is a grumpy 60 year-old or a poor 14 year-old
    ... or an experienced forum fisherman.

  38. #138
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post
    ... or an experienced forum fisherman.
    Nah. I trolled him too easily with the whole "neck" thing. And my troll-fu sucks.

  39. #139
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    It sounds to me like you have never done any real mountain biking which is why you donít understand the value of an expensive bike. It also sounds like you donít have enough money for an expensive bike so you are trying to make yourself feel better with this rant.
    It also sounds like he has a serious misunderstanding of physics. Power is power. Bikes do not "multiply" our effort; gears simply allow us to use the power we have available efficiently.

    It isn't about weight or anything else. This guy wouldn't dream of going even on a blue trail with the junk he talks about. 5 minutes on youtube will show you how well a Walmart "mountain bike" does even on a modest trail. If you want the extreme example, check out the ones where they go to lift serviced places with them and see how long they hold up.

    Those people have some serious balls. I would try it on a cheap hardtail as long as it had good brakes and some kind of decent fork, but there's just no way in hell I would bomb down a mountain on a bike that cost less than a decent set of tires. Between the undamped fork and the rim brakes, it'd be cheating death or serious bodily injury the whole way down.

  40. #140
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Sometimes you don't know that you don't know what you don't know. This is described by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. There's a very interesting peice about it on the You Are Not So Smart podcast.

    Usually this kind of thing sorts itself out through natural selection. Some types of ignorance die hard though
    You Are Not So Smart the book is one of the best books you can ever read.

  41. #141
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    By the time I get there yes, I will have a $600 bike. But I won't be dropping $600 all at once.
    Ha, I knew it.


  42. #142
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,157
    i like this OP. I hope he sticks around and posts pics of what he creates.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  43. #143
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,087
    Amazing. I'll bet the OPs bike is loads of fun on trails.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  44. #144
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,666

    This is all very confusing.

    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-637e7511-67f0-4442-91b8-6ac437a96b83.jpeg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  45. #145
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    461
    OP might not understand what we're talking about with bikes but at least he isn't blatantly making fun of anyone at their expense.

    I might be a jerk in some debates but deliberately making fun of someone because they can't afford a nicer bike is pretty f**ked up.

  46. #146
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Amazing. I'll bet the OPs bike is loads of fun on trails.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I bet OP's bike has never seen anything we would call a "trail." It sounds like he's more of a gravel rider, which other than being slow and heavy feeling, a department store bike might actually work okay for. I don't ride the kind of sick lines you guys reading this might ride, but even a beginner level legit mtb trail requires a LOT more bike than hitting up a gravel road for a few miles. I know some people ride smoother singletrack even on a cyclocross bike with 33mm tires, so anything with wider tires is going to be fine for gravel. I think that's where the disconnect is here.

  47. #147
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
    OP might not understand what we're talking about with bikes but at least he isn't blatantly making fun of anyone at their expense.

    I might be a jerk in some debates but deliberately making fun of someone because they can't afford a nicer bike is pretty f**ked up.
    Exactly why I plus-repped him. Heís been darned civil throughout. Others, not so much.
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  48. #148
    Make America Bike Again
    Reputation: richj8990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    But when I see someone get shot down for wanting to "building" a better bike starting with a $99 "junk bike" and told "just throw a huge wad of money at it all at once" I believe it turns some people off from getting into the hobby and prevents them from developing a passion for it.

    Take it from a BSO rider, $99 is way too cheap to start building a decent bike, if you don't mind me overstating the obvious. I get where the OP is coming from: there is a huge amount of marketing and peer pressure to buy a $5000+ 29" full-suspension long-travel bike. Everyone 'has' to buy one, no matter if they want to or not, because that's the best performing bike, period, and there are stats to back it up. Like biking is all about numbers.

    Cheapest bike out there (that I know of) with an actual front fork (if you can call it that) and disk brakes is $149, not $99. And those bikes are still 40-46 lbs, OK the OP says you get more of a workout with a heavier bike. You can get whatever amount of workout you want with any bike. Minimum bike cost that is worth upgrading is at least $300-400, those start getting down to 30-35 lbs with an OK aluminum frame.

    There is no one telling these "noobs" to build their bikes "psycobilly Cadillac" style and get the skills to go from "casual" to "enthusiast".

    To let their bike evolve with them.


    This is what I'm doing, pretty much done upgrading. Bike $517, tire upgrade $100, Suntour air fork trade-in $200, dropper $130. That's about the limit. After that the returns will be diminishing. No need for 1x at this bike level.

    Not everyone is willing or able to dump $500 on a bike they might not like anyway.

    Hell, at least 1 person dumped 2k in today's money to just see what the hype was about.

    Not something a person is going to do.

    There are lots of people that $500 is most of a 2 week pay check. And I think the attitude many share here is actually hurting the sport more than helping.


    No kidding. I just don't understand some of the statements. Many veterans say something along the lines of "I had a cheaper bike, caused me a lot of problems, total POS, then I bought a better bike for $xxxx and everything's great." Really? They were riding horribly on a cheaper bike and then all of a sudden they are the local bike racing hero the next day after buying an expensive bike? They could not learn any skills on a cheaper bike? Maybe they quickly outgrew the cheap bike, but explain that to everyone, that your skill level progressed on a fast curve, and the expensive bike simply accommodated that large skill increase. Not that the expensive bike turned skill water into skill wine.


    Instead of "riding a bike is still fun".

    Which I believe many of you seem to forgot that.
    ...
    Coffee, Ted?
    Ted's from a dysfunctional family.
    Oh...so no coffee...
    ---Samuel L. Jackson, Loaded Weapon I

  49. #149
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    811
    I read half your sour puss rant. I encourage you to ride any bicycle you like. Heck, I support it. More people on bikes ( of any kind, even WalMart bikes) is more better. That said, itís clear youíre here to start a pointless argument. Enjoy.

  50. #150
    Make America Bike Again
    Reputation: richj8990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I am. If a $200 Mal-Wart bike was my only option I'd probably be a couch surfer instead of a bike rider.


    What about a $200 gravel bike.

    That's a tough one isn't it.

  51. #151
    Make America Bike Again
    Reputation: richj8990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    and fortunately you didn't end up spending thousands more on medical bills when that happened (I presume). all bikes can break, but there's a reason why those bikes have warning stickers on them. nothing personal, but some people have to learn the hard way, myself included.

    Well mack, one day we'll have to do some analysis in the Rider Down forum and see how many bad crashes were on a $1000+ bike vs. how many were on a cheaper bike. I have a strange feeling that 95% of the bad crashes reported here were on a more expensive bike. Doesn't matter what percentage have an expensive bike vs. how many crash, bottom like is that people can and do crash badly with an expensive bike, so that blows a bit of a hole in your statement. Not that more expensive bikes are more dangerous than a cheap bike, but it entices the rider to be more and more daring. And exceed the limits of their skills and the bike's performance in a specific technical scenario. I used to crash all the time on a really cheap bike, but no major injuries because I wasn't trying to take corners at 20 mph either.

  52. #152
    Make America Bike Again
    Reputation: richj8990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    No offense but that is a bad argument. Many people on "high end bikes" get hurt trying to ride beyond their skill level.

    This is exactly what I posted above. Go into the Rider Down forum and see how many guys have Walmart specials. I'll bet zero or close to zero.

    My max downhill speeds average 18-22 mph on a $500 hardtail. And I want to keep it that way, more than happy with that speed, no need to push limits and end up in the hospital like so many others.

  53. #153
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,893
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Well mack, one day we'll have to do some analysis in the Rider Down forum and see how many bad crashes were on a $1000+ bike vs. how many were on a cheaper bike. I have a strange feeling that 95% of the bad crashes reported here were on a more expensive bike. Doesn't matter what percentage have an expensive bike vs. how many crash, bottom like is that people can and do crash badly with an expensive bike, so that blows a bit of a hole in your statement. Not that more expensive bikes are more dangerous than a cheap bike, but it entices the rider to be more and more daring. And exceed the limits of their skills and the bike's performance in a specific technical scenario. I used to crash all the time on a really cheap bike, but no major injuries because I wasn't trying to take corners at 20 mph either.
    Crashing because you were riding and made a mistake is not equal to your bike breaking because it is inadequate for the riding you are doing.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  54. #154
    Make America Bike Again
    Reputation: richj8990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    nope, it's still a waste of time. you spend more time and money ripping apart an old bike and replacing every single part of it trying to put crappy parts on a decent frame than if you just bought a non-crappy bike in the first place. it's a lose-lose other than the experience you gain. on the other hand, you could also be smart and listen to the well-meaning people who advise you against such foolishness. some people gotta learn the hard way.

    sometimes we just need to let natural selection sort out people who don't listen to good advice.

    What is the minimum price, and minimum fork / drivetrain / brake level you'd recommend for a hardtail? Let's hear some good advice...
    Coffee, Ted?
    Ted's from a dysfunctional family.
    Oh...so no coffee...
    ---Samuel L. Jackson, Loaded Weapon I

  55. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juan_speeder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    But let's not forget "tuf neck" "turtle neck" and "pro neck" not to forget the "goose neck".

    And if you google "bike neck" guess what you find?

    And considering that many individuals riders and otherwise use "neck" in the sales... must mean there is a "general" agreement that is an acceptable term.
    Hella troll. I'll give you that, but really, nobody calls a stem a neck. That said, it really doesn't matter either. Call it a vertebrae or whatever you wish, just don't claim that many other people call it that, because they don't.

    Anyways, I used to ride with some guys in north Texass who were motorcycle riders who decided to get into mtb. they started out on department store bikes with crescent wrenches duct taped to the top tubes, while riding pretty challenging trails. That didn't last long because they quickly realized they were riding junk. Next they bought lower end bike shop bikes, Cannondales with Alivio/STX parts and single wall rims - probably $500-600 bikes in the early 90s. They rode those pretty hard, and again realized that they weren't up to the task, so they all bought several thousand dollar bikes that were, and were happy about it because they were both more capable and durable.

    YMMV
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  56. #156
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    It also sounds like he has a serious misunderstanding of physics. Power is power. Bikes do not "multiply" our effort; gears simply allow us to use the power we have available efficiently.

    It isn't about weight or anything else. This guy wouldn't dream of going even on a blue trail with the junk he talks about. 5 minutes on youtube will show you how well a Walmart "mountain bike" does even on a modest trail. If you want the extreme example, check out the ones where they go to lift serviced places with them and see how long they hold up.

    Those people have some serious balls. I would try it on a cheap hardtail as long as it had good brakes and some kind of decent fork, but there's just no way in hell I would bomb down a mountain on a bike that cost less than a decent set of tires. Between the undamped fork and the rim brakes, it'd be cheating death or serious bodily injury the whole way down.
    I may have misused "power" but here is the definition.
    "A simple machine consisting of a bar that pivots on a fixed support, or fulcrum , and is used to transmit torque . A force applied by pushing down on one end of the lever results in a force pushing up at the other end. ... Levers, like gears, can thus be used to increase the force available from a*source"

  57. #157
    Bicycles aren't motorized
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,866
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Well mack, one day we'll have to do some analysis in the Rider Down forum and see how many bad crashes were on a $1000+ bike vs. how many were on a cheaper bike. I have a strange feeling that 95% of the bad crashes reported here were on a more expensive bike. Doesn't matter what percentage have an expensive bike vs. how many crash, bottom like is that people can and do crash badly with an expensive bike, so that blows a bit of a hole in your statement. Not that more expensive bikes are more dangerous than a cheap bike, but it entices the rider to be more and more daring. And exceed the limits of their skills and the bike's performance in a specific technical scenario. I used to crash all the time on a really cheap bike, but no major injuries because I wasn't trying to take corners at 20 mph either.





    Correlation does not imply causation.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  58. #158
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Someone wanted pictures. Well heres what I am working with.

    Last edited by Hawk258; 1 Week Ago at 05:22 PM. Reason: Dp

  59. #159
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juan_speeder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Someone wanted pictures. Well heres what I am working with.


    Good god man, did you take that photo with a potato? Plus a finger in front of the lens?

    Your troll skillz go to 11.
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  60. #160
    Bicycles aren't motorized
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Someone wanted pictures. Well heres what I am working with.






    Single speed that biznatch.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  61. #161
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Crashing because you were riding and made a mistake is not equal to your bike breaking because it is inadequate for the riding you are doing.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Funny, the YouTube "bike break" compilation says otherwise.

    Trying to jump a bike 20 feet with 125 lbs on a triangular system regardless of quality will cause things to break.

    As at least one bike snapped in half because the rider was either fatigued or made a bad judgement call on his jump landing it in such a way that the opposing force snapped the bike in half and endangered the riders behind him.

    Again skill is an equal factor as 'bike quality".

    And again I stated how and where I ride.

    I am not trying to pull 20 foot jumps or down hill a technical trail at 20 mph.

    I also live in an area that doesn't have high demand for the areas I ride. So only person at risk is "me". And I am not holding up other users.
    Last edited by Hawk258; 1 Week Ago at 05:39 PM. Reason: Misspelling

  62. #162
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    Good god man, did you take that photo with a potato? Plus a finger in front of the lens?

    Your troll skillz go to 11.
    Click it, its compressed by photobucket.

  63. #163
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Single speed that biznatch.
    Why?

  64. #164
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,734
    OP, sgltrak gave some great advice in post #133. Only thing he forgot to mention is that they bike should be a hardtail, rear suspension has too many wear parts to worry about on an old bike, they really can be inheriting someone else's problems. And if you absolutely have to buy a big box bike, buy the simplest bike they have, full suspension on a really cheap bike is more for looks and will usually suck your energy bobbing up and down plus add weight.

    If that's the bike you have, ride it, but you would really be better off saving up for a better bike than investing in new parts for it. Unfortunately, the amount of "standards" have exploded in the last several years and what you buy for your old bike very well may not transfer to a newer frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  65. #165
    Bicycles aren't motorized
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Why?



    You want a cheaper alternative to "overly expensive mountain bikes", here's a prime opportunity. Or is this just all talk?
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  66. #166
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,734
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Click it, its compressed by photobucket.
    You pay the PhotoBucket ransom fee every month?

    And that's what you get for it?

    I think we just found a way to put more money into your bike fund.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  67. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    You want a cheaper alternative to "overly expensive mountain bikes", here's a prime opportunity. Or is this just all talk?
    Well it's already a 21 speed. So I don't quite understand going to a single gear.

  68. #168
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    I am not paying for photobucket.
    Last edited by Hawk258; 1 Week Ago at 06:08 PM. Reason: Clarification

  69. #169
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Someone wanted pictures. Well heres what I am working with.

    Nice bike! Did you take it off any sweet jumps yet?

  70. #170
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Funny, the YouTube "bike break" compilation says otherwise.

    Trying to jump a bike 20 feet with 125 lbs on a triangular system regardless of quality will cause things to break.

    As at least one bike snapped in half because the rider was either fatigued or made a bad judgement call on his jump landing it in such a way that the opposing force snapped the bike in half and endangered the riders behind him.

    Again skill is an equal factor as 'bike quality".

    And again I stated how and where I ride.

    I am not trying to pull 20 foot jumps or down hill a technical trail at 20 mph.

    I also live in an area that doesn't have high demand for the areas I ride. So only person at risk is "me". And I am not holding up other users.
    Your sample is not representative. You realize those compilation videos are assembled with maximum idiocy, right, and reflect more upon the riders than on whatever equipment they chose to use? They are not representative of what happens in the real world under typical riding conditions.

    If anything, each case in those complation vids is the rider exceeding their own skills, exceeding the capabilities of their equipment, or, usually, both. Which is actually evidence in support of my earlier claim. But, alternative facts, right?

    None of this changes the fact that department store bikes do not do well with high frequency, high mileage use on rough mtb trails. It is outside of the intended use of such bikes. Maintaining them under such use is going to be expensive, and it is more cost effective in the long run to buy a bike that handles heavier use better. If you don't ride under those more strenuous conditions, then fine. Keep riding your bike. You probably aren't mountain biking. Nothing wrong with that. Riding bikes is cool regardless.

    But if you aren't mountain biking, asking advice from mountain bikers on a website designed to encourage mountain bikers to buy more (and more expensive) mountain bike equipment is going to give you answers skewed towards a different sort of riding with different goals. You probably ought to ask advice elsewhere, from riders who are doing something similar to you.

    I take issue with the whiny tone of this thread you started, honestly. Stop crying about whatever you feel slighted about. Just go ride your damn bike. Spend your money how you want to spend it. And realize that people on mtbr are going to disagree with you on what is cost effective. It is an audience whose goals differ from yours. Your whining was tiresome as soon as you posted it. You would have earned a whole lot more respect if you just posted pictures from your last ride and never said a damn thing about the bike you rode.


    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  71. #171
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post
    Nice bike! Did you take it off any sweet jumps yet?
    Nothing worth bragging about. It "generally" stays on 2 wheels and travels over rougher terrain like old railroad tracks and backwoods skidded trails.

  72. #172
    Bikesexual
    Reputation: jcd46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    5,972
    Did anyone like turtles yet?
    The Orange Fleet:

    '16 SC Heckler
    '14 All City MMD
    '12 Kona Unit Rigid

  73. #173
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Actually this is the "general discussion thread"

  74. #174
    Bicycles aren't motorized
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Well it's already a 21 speed. So I don't quite understand going to a single gear.



    I didn't think you would.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  75. #175
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Well it's already a 21 speed. So I don't quite understand going to a single gear.
    The shifting at the rear works much better than the shifting at the front. The rear shifting isn't trying to push around a tensioned chain. In practice, think of it as having a super wide range transmission rather than a transfer case and transmission.

    (in practice, a good, properly optimized 2 ring system is superior to 1x in almost every circumstance, but it's more complicated and not obvious. And even that is an unpopular opinion.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    I am not paying for photobucket.
    you can upload images to be hosted directly on this website.



    That bike is built with cost being the #1 overriding consideration. Every design/production decision was made from a cost perspective. How it holds up or functions after 1000 miles on the road was not a factor. For someone whose never put 1000 miles on any bicycle, it's also not a factor.

    Coming from a cyclist's perspective, that's a deal-killer. I have a cheapo commuter bike i put together from random junk 8 years ago. It cost me ~900$ of parts value in 2010. It has 17,000 miles on it now (1,600 hours?), and i've replaced the tires, brake pads, and chain as necessary. It fits me nicely, i can spent hours perched on it, works as if it was new, and i still love riding it. Amazing value.


    I think most people here are calculating how much their riding time is worth, how much more enjoyable good equipment is to use, and amortizing that cost/mile over the expected lifespan of the bike... and figuring buying something nicer is cheaper. We all do our own math, though.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  76. #176
    All fat, all the time.
    Reputation: Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Did anyone like turtles yet?
    Finally!
    I'm very confuzzled by this entire thread.

    If I made$500 each paycheck I'd learn a new skill and find something else.

    I mean find a new job, not a new bike.
    Last edited by Shark; 1 Week Ago at 10:30 PM.

  77. #177
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151

  78. #178
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    I didn't say "no" I said "i don't understand" big difference.

  79. #179
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Finally!
    I'm very confuzzled by this entire thread.

    If I made$500 each paycheck I'd learn a new skill and find something else.
    I am happy you think so. It's your money, you spend it how you like.

  80. #180
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    461
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Actually this is the "general discussion thread"
    General discussion on a mountain biking specific forum to discuss mountain biking. Since you're on a mountain bike forum you will get answers from people who mountain bike.

    A department store bike isn't made for mountain biking. It will break very quickly making whatever the purchase price was completely wasted cash to whoever bought it. I've seen people try it many times over always with the same result. Our absolute easiest trails around here will destroy any department store bike within 100 miles even if ridden easy.

  81. #181
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    The shifting at the rear works much better than the shifting at the front. The rear shifting isn't trying to push around a tensioned chain. In practice, think of it as having a super wide range transmission rather than a transfer case and transmission.

    (in practice, a good, properly optimized 2 ring system is superior to 1x in almost every circumstance, but it's more complicated and not obvious. And even that is an unpopular opinion.)



    you can upload images to be hosted directly on this website.



    That bike is built with cost being the #1 overriding consideration. Every design/production decision was made from a cost perspective. How it holds up or functions after 1000 miles on the road was not a factor. For someone whose never put 1000 miles on any bicycle, it's also not a factor.

    Coming from a cyclist's perspective, that's a deal-killer. I have a cheapo commuter bike i put together from random junk 8 years ago. It cost me ~900$ of parts value in 2010. It has 17,000 miles on it now (1,600 hours?), and i've replaced the tires, brake pads, and chain as necessary. It fits me nicely, i can spent hours perched on it, works as if it was new, and i still love riding it. Amazing value.


    I think most people here are calculating how much their riding time is worth, how much more enjoyable good equipment is to use, and amortizing that cost/mile over the expected lifespan of the bike... and figuring buying something nicer is cheaper. We all do our own math, though.
    I might consider it. I'd have to see how it would do on my daily ride.

  82. #182
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Fair enough. But it's not exactly a quantum leap from "trail riding" to "mountain biking"

  83. #183
    Snow Dog
    Reputation: sXeXBMXer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post

    So instead of turning them away instruct them.

    First: don't try to ride beyond your skills or the bike.

    Second: learn how to maintain and fix your bike.

    Third: share your experience but allow these "kids" to build with the resources at their disposal.
    hmmm...I have been doing these things, using my top of the line BMX from the 80's (81 Supergoose); my lower end MTB from the 90's (Trek 830) and my moderately priced bike from 2015 (Surly Krampus)

    at no time was the price point of the bike a deterrent to these endeavors
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

    15 Surly Krampus
    LET IT SNOW!

  84. #184
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Thank you for that. I think that is awesome.

  85. #185
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    42
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    What is the minimum price, and minimum fork / drivetrain / brake level you'd recommend for a hardtail? Let's hear some good advice...
    What is the technical term for when one Dunning-Kruger sufferer joins another Dunning-Kruger sufferer's thread?

    A Double Dunning?

  86. #186
    slow
    Reputation: sgltrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,483
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    OP, sgltrak gave some great advice in post #133. Only thing he forgot to mention is that they bike should be a hardtail, rear suspension has too many wear parts to worry about on an old bike, they really can be inheriting someone else's problems. And if you absolutely have to buy a big box bike, buy the simplest bike they have, full suspension on a really cheap bike is more for looks and will usually suck your energy bobbing up and down plus add weight.

    If that's the bike you have, ride it, but you would really be better off saving up for a better bike than investing in new parts for it. Unfortunately, the amount of "standards" have exploded in the last several years and what you buy for your old bike very well may not transfer to a newer frame.
    Good post, Chaz. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I definitely meant hard tail or even a rigid used good quality bike. I don't own or pay much attention to FS bikes, so I kind of overlooked that detail.

  87. #187
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,776
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    What about a $200 gravel bike.

    That's a tough one isn't it.


    I don't understand, why would that matter.

    This thread is awesome.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  88. #188
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,776
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    What about a $200 gravel bike.

    That's a tough one isn't it.


    I don't understand, why would that matter?

    This thread is awesome.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  89. #189
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,666
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I don't understand, why would that matter.

    This thread is awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I don't understand, why would that matter?

    This thread is awesome.
    So awesome you said it twice.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  90. #190
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,722
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I think most people here are calculating how much their riding time is worth, how much more enjoyable good equipment is to use, and amortizing that cost/mile over the expected lifespan of the bike... and figuring buying something nicer is cheaper. We all do our own math, though.
    Bingo,, give that man a cigar
    All the gear and no idea.

  91. #191
    the discerning hooligan
    Reputation: MOJO K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Someone wanted pictures. Well heres what I am working with.

    Looking quickly it looks like a threaded steerer fork (1Ē) that leaves few options to upgrade. It also might indicate a freewheel and not a cassette. I doubt that it has disc brake mounts. Most of all, I question the fit on box store bikes. There are some of the objective reasons for why upgrading this bike isnít a great option.

    I understand the reluctance to buy used, especially if youíre not confident about what to look for. Posting possible Craigslist options on the beginner forum is common practice here, and the community is pretty good at weeding out bad buys. Alternatively, bikesdirect.com might be a decent option.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  92. #192
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    Looking quickly it looks like a threaded steerer fork (1Ē) that leaves few options to upgrade. It also might indicate a freewheel and not a cassette. I doubt that it has disc brake mounts. Most of all, I question the fit on box store bikes. There are some of the objective reasons for why upgrading this bike isnít a great option.

    I understand the reluctance to buy used, especially if youíre not confident about what to look for. Posting possible Craigslist options on the beginner forum is common practice here, and the community is pretty good at weeding out bad buys. Alternatively, bikesdirect.com might be a decent option.
    Why is MTB tech stuck in the 50's and 60's?-20181126_050713.jpg

    you are referring to these?

    If not that still isn't a deal killer. The front doesn't have any mounts.

    However there are mounting kits.

    Also there is a 1" threaded to 1 1/8" adapter from genuine bike products. I will have to measure to be sure.

    As for buying a used frame it is nothing personal but it's not like you can take a bike out for a second opinion. I'd have to have a certain amount of trust with a seller (my issue not yours) before I did that.

    When you are talking about the kind of money these bikes ask for I suspect a certain amount of failure to disclose and a wish to recoup that investment, I also have a difficult time trusting my judgement in the quality yes.

    That isn't to say you aren't trustworthy... just trust needs to be build first.

    At least a new "bare" frame I have some recourse in that situation.
    Last edited by Hawk258; 1 Week Ago at 06:39 AM. Reason: More info

  93. #193
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,776
    I doubt there are any decent 1" suspension forks available.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  94. #194
    Upcyclist
    Reputation: Cornfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20181126_050713.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	152.7 KB 
ID:	1226353

    you are referring to these?

    If not that still isn't a deal killer. The front doesn't have any mounts.

    However there are mounting kits.

    Also there is a 1" threaded to 1 1/8" adapter from genuine bike products. I will have to measure to be sure.
    That rear triangle would fold up like a cheap lawn chair if you put a disc brake on it!
    Cool heads prevail

  95. #195
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    That rear triangle would fold up like a cheap lawn chair if you put a disc brake on it!
    Fold how?

    But like I said it's not a deal killer if they are not strong enough.BrakeMount004.jpg

  96. #196
    Thinking about riding.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,505
    The comparison to the early klunker mtbs is laughable. Those were high quality bicycles, despite being simple designs. Nothing like the mass-produced junk that you find at the big box stores.

    The funny thing here is you are equating cheap with simple. Wal-Mart bikes are cheap, but not simple. Many people here ride steel single speed bikes with no suspension, there's nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with riding a 21 speed full suspension bike you got for $100 new; the fact that they gave you that level of complexity for that cheap is a dead giveaway the quality is very, very low.

  97. #197
    mtbr member
    Reputation: screamingbunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    810
    What you have there are fender/rack mounts, not disc mounts. Had a customer come in awhile back to have a set of Saint Brakes he purchased online mounted to his Wally bike similar to yours, he was upset when we said we couldn't/wouldn't do it. When we finally relented and said we'd do it for $500.00 all up he was mildly satisfied, when I pulled out the "adaptor kit", a complete bike, he absolutely flipped his lid and left.....best day ever

  98. #198
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,666
    Quote Originally Posted by screamingbunny View Post
    What you have there are fender/rack mounts, not disc mounts. Had a customer come in awhile back to have a set of Saint Brakes he purchased online mounted to his Wally bike similar to yours, he was upset when we said we couldn't/wouldn't do it. When we finally relented and said we'd do it for $500.00 all up he was mildly satisfied, when I pulled out the "adaptor kit", a complete bike, he absolutely flipped his lid and left.....best day ever

    LOL
    Awesome!
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  99. #199
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk258 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20181126_050713.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	152.7 KB 
ID:	1226353

    you are referring to these?
    that is for mounting a fender and rear rack. the spacing is wrong for a disc brake.

    if you could somehow mount a disc brake on that frame, it will likely not be strong enough to handle the braking forces that are put on that part of the frame. if you look carefully at many mountain bikes, the rear dropout area is beefed up for this reason. some frames have a brace welded between the seat stay and chainstay right under the brake.

    based on dozens of personal experiences with people bringing bikes like that into bike shops where i have worked, those bikes (yes, I can tell just from looking at the dropouts, I've seen them enough times) are not worth the trouble.

    • frames come in only one size. do you buy one-size-fits-all shoes?
    • flimsy forks that flex like crazy and have no adjustment or rebound damping (yes, a fork with no rebound damping is miserably harsh!). when they wear out, they are not practically repairable.
    • loose-ball bearing hubs, headsets, bottom brackets all get contaminated easily. they are a constant struggle to maintain.
    • quill type stems get seized easily, are not strong, and flex like mad. there are some adapters that allow you to use a modern (1990s technology) threadless stem, but that's not much of an upgrade.
    • steel handlebars and crank arms bend easily. the chainrings are usually riveted on, so when they wear out, you need to buy a whole new crankset and bottom bracket.
    • flimsy derailleurs don't shift well even when carefully adjusted, then wear out quickly.
    • steel rims bend easy, are very difficult to true back into shape, and weigh a TON in the meantime.
    • the frames of these bikes are often very thick aluminum, which is probably the strongest part of the bike. the back ends are made from mild steel and are bolted to the frame with flimsy plastic bushings that wear out quickly and allow the rear end to warp.
    • the rear hub with a freewheel has the drive side hub bearings much further inboard than any modern hub (technology that went mainstream in the '80s), so there's a lot of force on the hub that causes the axle to bend or break frequently. it's not very hard to fix, but a broken axle in the middle of a ride sucks.
    • those flimsy v-brakes or cantis flex a lot and don't deliver good braking. the pads are often very soft, don't brake well on the painted surface of the steel rims, and wear out quickly.


    that's just the first few problems that come to mind based on personal experience. that's why I don't recommend wasting time on them.

    I ran a bicycle co-op for three years. it's basically a bicycle thrift store and DIY shop. 99% of the time, when a bike of that quality came in, it was not worth the effort, nor devoting the coveted storage space we had, to fix it up. after just a few months of use, they were more useful for a few parts and the rest went to a scrapper. our clients were mostly students and poor folks who just needed a bike to ride to work, so I would gladly let them "trade" it in for something like a 1996 Trek Antelope 820, which will survive the Apocalypse if you don't do anything too gnarly on it.

  100. #200
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    151
    This is also an option if needed.
    Name:  649e440bb240f12d5b1b128b082df591.png
Views: 248
Size:  111.3 KB

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 12-01-2014, 08:26 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-22-2013, 12:09 AM
  3. To Ice Tech or not to Ice Tech?
    By CrozCountry in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-16-2012, 12:44 PM

Members who have read this thread: 442

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2018 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.