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  1. #1
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    why do cyclists use so much of the road?

    hey, im pretty new here. i recently got a mountain bike to hit the local trails and get a work out and have some fun.

    i live in the mountains, and all of main local roads are popular for road bikes on the weekends, so every weekend when i drive, i get stuck behind idiots that decide the road is all theirs. they go well below the posted speed limit and make passing difficult and dangerous. when i do pass, my truck usually gets really close to them and they yell something that i cant understand.

    if i cant pass i usually keep my horn on for a long while to let them know that i would like to pass, but they usually just flip me off and stay in the road.

    ive been behind a few that can keep up with the speed limit and traffic, but thats pretty rare.

    its pretty dangerous for everyone involved, cars have to cross double yellows to get around them, and ive helped a cyclist before that had a car clip his handlebars. he broke his shoulder when he fell and i assisted until an ambulance got there.

    a few years ago i passed a guy and there was some lose gravel, i guess a good amount of it got him because when i was stopped he caught up to me and told me to get out of the car, when me and my buddy did get out of the car, he yelled "slow down" and biked off, dunno why i needed to get out of the car for him to tell me that. if that had happened today, i wouldnt be stepping out of the car unless i felt that my life or well being was in danger if i didnt, and i wouldnt confront a situation that put me in danger without my tool that makes me certain i can stop a threat.

    from what ive seen, no good has ever come from riding in the middle of the road, or not far enough to the side. am i missing something? do riders like getting clipped by cars in hopes of collecting money? or do they enjoy watching cars hit each other while passing or something?

    is there secret biker honk i can use to let them know im cool and they should let me pass?

  2. #2
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    The edge of a road is usually full of debris- loose gravel, bits of broken glass. So riding there is harder and more likely to give you a flat tyre.

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    I have commuted alot in many different places. I have learned to ride where I need to to make myself safe. I ride in the middle of the lane and leave the car behind no place to pass unless they go into the other lane entirely, if I feel that they do not have the room or can't see far enough ahead to know that it is ok to pass. I do this so I don't get clipped by a car that decided to pass and then runs out of room. If it means getting into a head on collision with another car or clipping my I know which one they will choose. If the road is open I ride on the side. You might spend 10 seconds slowing down and making sure it is ok to pass but if you think about it, not that big of a deal.

    On a side note if I have an idiot behind me laying on the horn I might take a little longer allowing them to pass but that is on myh bike or in a car. More than a small honk to let me know that you are behind me is like yelling your head off. Rude!

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    I've been considering getting train horns

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    is there secret biker honk i can use to let them know im cool and they should let me pass?
    Roll down your window and yell "On your left" before passing

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    from what ive seen, no good has ever come from riding in the middle of the road, or not far enough to the side. am i missing something? do riders like getting clipped by cars in hopes of collecting money? or do they enjoy watching cars hit each other while passing or something?

    is there secret biker honk i can use to let them know im cool and they should let me pass?
    You are clearly missing something. A few points to consider.

    Bikes have a right (unless otherwise posted) to use the road as a vehicle in most (if not all) states. Interstates have a no bike policy, but otherwise most roads are bikable.

    Speed limits and minimum speed are very different. Unless there is a minimum speed posted, grandma could be taking a sunday drive, a piece of farm equipment could be slowly moving field to field, or a biker could be in the lane.

    Biking on most roads is dangerous business. Larger groups of bikers can make it more dangerous as cars try to pass and have to move right before it is clear. Larger group rides tend to swell in the road for this reason.

    Riding the middle of the lane, particularly near intersections, is a life saving approach.

    You pass a bike as you would pass a car (road markings, signage, etc). Since most people simply don't understand this and try to squeeze through on tight curvy roads, many cyclists have been "clipped" (mirrors, trailers, etc) and killed.


    Take a look at this webpage for additional considerations. I have had 2 near death experiences on the road. It scared me off the road. I've known people killed on the road.

    http://bicyclesafe.com/
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  7. #7
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    Depending on the road and the traffic situation, I may take the center of a lane to

    1) make sure I'm visible
    2) make sure those who are passing me will actually go around me instead of ignoring me
    3) leave me some space for evasive moves towards the shoulder in case a passer gets too close
    4) prevent situations where there's two trucks and me, where there's only space for the two trucks

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

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    Perttime is right and so is SeaBass. It's taking restraint to not comment further, but I'm stopping there.

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    Not trolling, just understanding the logic. It gets old for the locals to be held up from their routine because someone thinks they own the road.

    I can understand the points made about personal safety, but sometimes it seems more dangerous for drivers and riders.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    It gets old for the locals to be held up from their routine because someone thinks they own the road.
    Just to give it a different perspective:

    It gets old for riders to fear for their lives because some locals think they own the road.

    ... I'm not commenting any further either ...

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime View Post
    Just to give it a different perspective:

    It gets old for riders to fear for their lives because some locals think they own the road.

    ... I'm not commenting any further either ...
    I'm going to work though, not playing in the road

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    If its not safe for a car to pass, I make it impossible for them to try by taking up the lane. Entering a roundabout is a perfect case, if you leave space you will get squeezed off the road.
    On the other side though, I try to make room where it is safe, i don't want cars to have to do stupid moves to get by. Some large group rides don't show any such courtesy and get all militant at the cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by tubby74 View Post
    If its not safe for a car to pass, I make it impossible for them to try by taking up the lane. Entering a roundabout is a perfect case, if you leave space you will get squeezed off the road.
    On the other side though, I try to make room where it is safe, i don't want cars to have to do stupid moves to get by. Some large group rides don't show any such courtesy and get all militant at the cars
    That's what I'm talking about

  15. #15
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    Is this you?

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=52898a040a0a" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Just past a group of 5, all moved to the shoulder when i got to them. Thank you! It looked pretty easy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass_ View Post
    Is this you?

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=52898a040a0a" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Sorry, but that's funny!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Just past a group of 5, all moved to the shoulder when i got to them. Thank you! It looked pretty easy
    Text & drive much? Cause that's safe for the road cyclist too....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec7 View Post
    Text & drive much? Cause that's safe for the road cyclist too....
    Long drive through the hills...

  20. #20
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    Think you got your answer, who you think is right or wrong, and bickering with members over it isn't going to change anything so ?
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  21. #21
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    Because I'm a vehicle, by law, and am allowed to take up the entire lane if I need to.
    So when the terrain, debris, whatever demands it, I will take up as much or as little as I need to.
    But it's my call to make.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    You are clearly missing something. A few points to consider.

    Bikes have a right (unless otherwise posted) to use the road as a vehicle in most (if not all) states. Interstates have a no bike policy, but otherwise most roads are bikable.

    Speed limits and minimum speed are very different. Unless there is a minimum speed posted, grandma could be taking a sunday drive, a piece of farm equipment could be slowly moving field to field, or a biker could be in the lane.

    Biking on most roads is dangerous business. Larger groups of bikers can make it more dangerous as cars try to pass and have to move right before it is clear. Larger group rides tend to swell in the road for this reason.

    Riding the middle of the lane, particularly near intersections, is a life saving approach.

    You pass a bike as you would pass a car (road markings, signage, etc). Since most people simply don't understand this and try to squeeze through on tight curvy roads, many cyclists have been "clipped" (mirrors, trailers, etc) and killed.


    Take a look at this webpage for additional considerations. I have had 2 near death experiences on the road. It scared me off the road. I've known people killed on the road.

    http://bicyclesafe.com/
    Speed limit or not, it's illegal to impede traffic.

  23. #23
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    I AM traffic, not impeding at all.
    By law you have to wait behind slower vehicles until it's safe to pass.
    End of your argument right there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts View Post
    I AM traffic, not impeding at all.
    By law you have to wait behind slower vehicles until it's safe to pass.
    End of your argument right there.
    No, even cars are required by law to pull over if there are 5 or more vehicles behind them in close proximity and they are going under the speed limit.

  25. #25
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    Oops, I was wrong. No provision for needing 5 cars behind you, you just need to be going slower than the speed limit and slowing down traffic.

    Minimum Speed Law

    22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.

    No person shall bring a vehicle to a complete stop upon a highway so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the stop is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

  26. #26
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    I hate it when I get baited by trolls. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Time for everyone to move along.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    I hate it when I get baited by trolls. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Time for everyone to move along.
    Yup, agreed, but I have noticed that it's always fat out of shape people who couldn't dream of any real road riding, especially on mountain roads, that have the biggest problem with cyclists. Hmmmm.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Yup, agreed, but I have noticed that it's always fat out of shape people who couldn't dream of any real road riding, especially on mountain roads, that have the biggest problem with cyclists. Hmmmm.
    I will admit that the road cyclists look pretty strong and in shape, not stronger than a car though. The dude that I helped out wasn't stronger than the car that clipped him or the asphalt that he hit. I weigh in at a whopping 170lbs, probably too fat to ride a bike

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    I've been considering getting train horns
    wow - you seem like a total 'COOL GUY"****
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    wow - you seem like a total 'COOL GUY"****
    It's for safety, seems like some people can't hear my current horn.

  31. #31
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    In Oregon we have both of these laws, but it does not stop road cyclists from breaking them and acting like they own the road.

    811.425 Failure of slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of failure of a slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle if the person is driving a vehicle and the person fails to move the person’s vehicle off the main traveled portion of the highway into an area sufficient for safe turnout when:

    (a) The driver of the overtaken vehicle is proceeding at a speed less than a speed established in ORS 811.105 as prima facie evidence of violation of the basic speed rule;

    (b) The driver of the overtaking vehicle is proceeding at a speed in conformity with ORS 811.105;

    (c) The highway is a two directional, two-lane highway; and

    (d) There is no clear lane for passing available to the driver of the overtaking vehicle.

    (2) This section does not apply to the driver of a vehicle in a funeral procession.

    (3) The offense described in this section, failure of a slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle, is a Class B traffic violation. [1983 c.338 §640; 1991 c.482 §16; 1995 c.383 §68; 2001 c.104 §307; 2003 c.819 §15]

    814.430 Improper use of lanes; exceptions; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of improper use of lanes by a bicycle if the person is operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic using the roadway at that time and place under the existing conditions and the person does not ride as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.

    (2) A person is not in violation of the offense under this section if the person is not operating a bicycle as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway under any of the following circumstances:

    (a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle that is proceeding in the same direction.

    (b) When preparing to execute a left turn.

    (c) When reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or other conditions that make continued operation along the right curb or edge unsafe or to avoid unsafe operation in a lane on the roadway that is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side by side. Nothing in this paragraph excuses the operator of a bicycle from the requirements under ORS 811.425 or from the penalties for failure to comply with those requirements.

    (d) When operating within a city as near as practicable to the left curb or edge of a roadway that is designated to allow traffic to move in only one direction along the roadway. A bicycle that is operated under this paragraph is subject to the same requirements and exceptions when operating along the left curb or edge as are applicable when a bicycle is operating along the right curb or edge of the roadway.

    (e) When operating a bicycle alongside not more than one other bicycle as long as the bicycles are both being operated within a single lane and in a manner that does not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.

    (f) When operating on a bicycle lane or bicycle path.

    (3) The offense described in this section, improper use of lanes by a bicycle, is a Class D traffic violation. [1983 c.338 §701; 1985 c.16 §339]

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khartik View Post
    In Oregon we have both of these laws, but it does not stop road cyclists from breaking them and acting like they own the road.
    Well you're probably a troll too!

    It's cool to have a hobby and get out on weekends and ride, but breaking the law because you cant keep up on the road and being rude to people that just want to get on with their day is not cool.

  33. #33
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    Enjoy the short time you have left here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    It's for safety, seems like some people can't hear my current horn.
    trust me we can hear you - horn or not
    all a horn does to serve is to make people not want to move over for you
    you are being totally counter productive by acting like a .... 'COOL GUY'
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    I will admit that the road cyclists look pretty strong and in shape, not stronger than a car though. The dude that I helped out wasn't stronger than the car that clipped him or the asphalt that he hit. I weigh in at a whopping 170lbs, probably too fat to ride a bike
    So you say. Guess I should believe you because you seem like such a nice guy who I've only just met on the interwebz. This thread and your attitude is so ridiculous that it's more likely that you're a mod just having some fun with us. Chum, is that you?
    Either way, if you aren't smart enough to realize from the get go that this thread and your approach isn't going to solve anything, you should realize it by now and move on. Or stick around and keep posting in this manner, but you're not gonna make any friends, and probably just get negged into oblivion and/or banned. The choice is yours.
    Round and round we go

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass_ View Post
    Is this you?

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=52898a040a0a" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    i chuckled at it for a moment, but when i saw how far this jackwagon took it...man that is a dick move for sure.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    i chuckled at it for a moment, but when i saw how far this jackwagon took it...man that is a dick move for sure.
    That's not even a little funny. Now if that pos truck broke down and he was forced to be confronted with those folks, that'd be funny. But something tells me that toughguy wouldn't be laughing anymore. It's one thing to have to drive a truck like that because you can't afford better or to fix it, but to film the people who were clearly off to the side of the road being forced to breath that [email protected] for amusement is something else.
    Round and round we go

  38. #38
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    Guy's like that are pissed at the world because they can't get it up or their priest touched them or some sh!t.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Speed limit or not, it's illegal to impede traffic.
    Some of cyclists are also going to work. Some are not. Some drivers are vacationing and driving slow, looking at the sights, too. The roads are not limited to people going certain places or prioritized unless the police are doing escort duty. Our driving licenses require us to accommodate all legal users (and even illegal ones) safely. We are required to avoid an accident if at all possible.

    In Indiana, six vehicles backed up is citable as impeding traffic. I have pulled into driveways to deal with a much shorter line forming behind that I feared would result in a stupid action. That said, asking a cyclist to pull over for every overtaking vehicle is unreasonable as well as not being required.

    Most cyclists are very aware of vehicles approaching from behind, and the horn is counter productive. If I can see to safely pass a cyclist, I ignore the double lines. If the sight line is so poor i can't use the left lane, then i can't safely pass even if the cyclist used only the right 3'. Given cyclists don't have a steel surround, air bags, seat belts, etc., and that the law leaves it to the cyclist to decide how best to ride a piece of road safely, I would suggest patience. A few seconds of your time is not worth maiming or killing a cyclist. I had a route to work that had a train cross it and make me late, if I did not leave early enough, and when I did, I would be 20 minutes early, other routes took an extra half hour. Sometimes the logistics aren't good. Cyclists are not trying to make your life difficult, but if they are not uncommon on your routes, that needs to be factored into travel time.

    BrianMc

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Speed limit or not, it's illegal to impede traffic.


    You are fortunate that stupidity is not illeagal, if it were it would be a capitol offense in your case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Not trolling, just understanding the logic. It gets old for the locals to be held up from their routine because someone thinks they own the road.
    You sir are an uber-*****er.

    Heaven forbid a local has to let up on the gas peddle and wait til it's safe to pass a cyclist. What's that take, between 5 and 30 seconds? I can see how their day would be completely ruined.

    Nobody owns the road but we all have the right to use it.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    I'm going to work though, not playing in the road
    That doesn't make a bit of difference. Bicycles are vehicles on the road just as you are and it doesn't make a bit of difference what their purpose is.

    Share the road, pass when you can and lay off the horn.
    Last edited by whoda*huck; 07-28-2012 at 11:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Sorry, but that's funny!
    No. That guy's a d*ck. If you think that's funny...

    All these reasons is why I pretty much gave up road riding, although I like it. I'm so stoked to live near trails so I don't have to deal with all the a55holes throwing stuff, yelling, etc. It really sucks because my wife likes to road ride and is scared of MTB'ing - and we've had a number of people do some pretty aggressive, dangerous stuff. She's so timid, we're nowhere near the center of the road - yet people think it's "funny" (Quote: "Sorry, but that's funny!") to harass.

    Some road riders are elitist and entitled, but the higher percentage of road riders are just out riding and being courteous.

    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    hey, im pretty new here. i recently got a mountain bike to hit the local trails and get a work out and have some fun.
    If you don't like road riders to take up your space when you're driving, you can empathize when stronger, faster riders are trying to get around you taking up the trail on a climb, right? Being that you've "recently got a mountain bike" you're probably getting dropped left and right. Those stronger riders are probably courteous to you when you're slowing them down. There's always somebody holding somebody else up.
    Last edited by Dion; 07-28-2012 at 11:05 AM.

  44. #44
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    The entire tone of the OP's conversation throughout the thread is that a slight inconvenience to him is of greater significance than a human life and his right to drive a truck on a road supersedes a cyclist right to ride a bike on a road.

    His inconvenience shadows the idea of making a logical and rational decision of how to deal with a 200 lb cyclist making his 3,500 lb truck have to slow down. An inconvenience that shadows any regard to the concept of laying on the car horn might scare the cyclist badly enough to make the cyclist fall and wind up under the tires of his truck.

    But, hey, we're just cyclists. We don't need rights to the road since we don't have to pay any taxes for anything especially the roads we also drive our cars on. We don't have spouses and children waiting for us at home. Maybe someday we'll be real people.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    That's not even a little funny. Now if that pos truck broke down and he was forced to be confronted with those folks, that'd be funny. But something tells me that toughguy wouldn't be laughing anymore. It's one thing to have to drive a truck like that because you can't afford better or to fix it, but to film the people who were clearly off to the side of the road being forced to breath that [email protected] for amusement is something else.
    agreed. diesel soot is very toxic stuff and to intentionally fog people with it should result in assault charges.

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    Is it just me or are these self centered "I'm right and the other people are wrong" threads getting more common? The lol I jumped over a kid today thread is a prime example. The OP here sounds a lot like the OP on that other thread. It's like talking to a brick wall with these guys.

  47. #47
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    it's not just you. The "it's all about me" attitude has become disturbingly prevalent in today's world.

  48. #48
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    I agree with whodaphuk, it's a sad state of affairs in the world today.
    With my goldfish shorts swimming around my toes.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    i chuckled at it for a moment, but when i saw how far this jackwagon took it...man that is a dick move for sure.

    That video made my blood boil and it didn't even happen to me. I had a friend who had a GMC something or other that was diesel, and he would do the same thing to people in convertibles from time to time. At the time I thought it was hilarious, but that video puts that sort of behavior into some perspective.
    Ahhhh...Ahhhh....it's the hammy, it's the hammy!!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazy03 View Post
    That video made my blood boil and it didn't even happen to me. I had a friend who had a GMC something or other that was diesel, and he would do the same thing to people in convertibles from time to time. At the time I thought it was hilarious, but that video puts that sort of behavior into some perspective.
    I have had it happen personally - by a neighbor friend - who thought it was just 'giving me shlt' - I let him know what I thought, and he still did not get it (probably did not want to admit fault) - though he has not 'gassed' anyone else that I am aware of -
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    You are clearly missing something. A few points to consider.

    Bikes have a right (unless otherwise posted) to use the road as a vehicle in most (if not all) states. Interstates have a no bike policy, but otherwise most roads are bikable.

    Speed limits and minimum speed are very different. Unless there is a minimum speed posted, grandma could be taking a sunday drive, a piece of farm equipment could be slowly moving field to field, or a biker could be in the lane.

    Biking on most roads is dangerous business. Larger groups of bikers can make it more dangerous as cars try to pass and have to move right before it is clear. Larger group rides tend to swell in the road for this reason.

    Riding the middle of the lane, particularly near intersections, is a life saving approach.

    You pass a bike as you would pass a car (road markings, signage, etc). Since most people simply don't understand this and try to squeeze through on tight curvy roads, many cyclists have been "clipped" (mirrors, trailers, etc) and killed.


    Take a look at this webpage for additional considerations. I have had 2 near death experiences on the road. It scared me off the road. I've known people killed on the road.

    http://bicyclesafe.com/
    Just because you can do something, does not mean you should, it is ridiculous to think we need the govenment to tell us what we can or cannot do.
    Logic says that a vehicle weighing two tons or more is right even if its wrong, i have zero Idea why that is so hard for cyclists to understand, but someone needs to donate organs so whatever I guess.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwbikur View Post
    Is it just me or are these self centered "I'm right and the other people are wrong" threads getting more common? The lol I jumped over a kid today thread is a prime example. The OP here sounds a lot like the OP on that other thread. It's like talking to a brick wall with these guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by whodaphuck View Post
    it's not just you. The "it's all about me" attitude has become disturbingly prevalent in today's world.
    Quote Originally Posted by can't get right View Post
    You sir are an uber-*****er.

    Heaven forbid a local has to let up on the gas peddle and wait til it's safe to pass a cyclist. What's that take, between 5 and 30 seconds? I can see how their day would be completely ruined.

    Nobody owns the road but we all have the right to use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    You are fortunate that stupidity is not illeagal, if it were it would be a capitol offense in your case.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Enjoy the short time you have left here.

    I'll admit that I think the OP could have used different wording in the opening post by not name-calling.
    Looking at the replies though, the majority here aren't any better.
    He gets slammed as a troll, told he doesn't have long here, on and on...
    That's a shame.

    When the point is made that legally, bicyclists are not allowed to slow or impede traffic in some states, none of you seem to accept this.
    What I see then is the same thing you accuse the OP of... elitism.
    This whole, "We are vehicles too and we have a right to use the road even while ignoring the laws!", is the same "it's all about me" attitude mentioned above.

    Every state I have ever lived in here in the U.S. has had requirements that all slow-moving vehicles display the slow-moving triangle, among other laws concerning the behavior of vehicles moving slow enough to disrupt the general flow of traffic.

    I understand it... and it doesn't get me all upset.
    I drive motor vehicles, ride bicycles (road and mtb), and walk along the roads and I'm happy to give way to a motor vehicle moving faster than me.
    I'm happy to pull over and let cars pass me... I'm going slow enough that a short stop on my bike doesn't really add all that much time to my ride... I can live with it.

    I used to drive ambulances and understand all too well the consequences of people who don't take measures to avoid conflict on the road... bicyclists, pedestrians, as well as motor vehicle operators.

    It would be wonderful if every paved road had a dedicated bike lane for bike riders to ride more safely in.
    The fact is this does not exist.
    There are laws... like it or not, and we should be following them on bikes just as much as we expect motor vehicles to follow them.

    You guys are all to eager to attack people here sometimes... too bad you can't lighten up a bit.

  53. #53
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    License for a road bike with the accompanying fee and tag would be appropriate if the rules are the same for both...Oh yea, that was tried already.
    lean forward

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    Quote Originally Posted by wsmac View Post
    I'll admit that I think the OP could have used different wording in the opening post by not name-calling.
    Looking at the replies though, the majority here aren't any better.
    He gets slammed as a troll, told he doesn't have long here, on and on...
    That's a shame.

    When the point is made that legally, bicyclists are not allowed to slow or impede traffic in some states, none of you seem to accept this.
    What I see then is the same thing you accuse the OP of... elitism.
    This whole, "We are vehicles too and we have a right to use the road even while ignoring the laws!", is the same "it's all about me" attitude mentioned above.

    Every state I have ever lived in here in the U.S. has had requirements that all slow-moving vehicles display the slow-moving triangle, among other laws concerning the behavior of vehicles moving slow enough to disrupt the general flow of traffic.

    I understand it... and it doesn't get me all upset.
    I drive motor vehicles, ride bicycles (road and mtb), and walk along the roads and I'm happy to give way to a motor vehicle moving faster than me.
    I'm happy to pull over and let cars pass me... I'm going slow enough that a short stop on my bike doesn't really add all that much time to my ride... I can live with it.

    I used to drive ambulances and understand all too well the consequences of people who don't take measures to avoid conflict on the road... bicyclists, pedestrians, as well as motor vehicle operators.

    It would be wonderful if every paved road had a dedicated bike lane for bike riders to ride more safely in.
    The fact is this does not exist.
    There are laws... like it or not, and we should be following them on bikes just as much as we expect motor vehicles to follow them.

    You guys are all to eager to attack people here sometimes... too bad you can't lighten up a bit.


    You jump to broad conclusions.How exactly do you know that we are in fact not following the laws? In my state bikes are afforded by law the right to take the lane if the shoulder is not appropriate or safe to operate a bicyle in, therefore making the onus on the motor vehicle to pass when safe to do so.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khartik View Post
    In Oregon we have both of these laws, but it does not stop road cyclists from breaking them and acting like they own the road.

    811.425 Failure of slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of failure of a slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle if the person is driving a vehicle and the person fails to move the person’s vehicle off the main traveled portion of the highway into an area sufficient for safe turnout when:

    (a) The driver of the overtaken vehicle is proceeding at a speed less than a speed established in ORS 811.105 as prima facie evidence of violation of the basic speed rule;

    (b) The driver of the overtaking vehicle is proceeding at a speed in conformity with ORS 811.105;

    (c) The highway is a two directional, two-lane highway; and

    (d) There is no clear lane for passing available to the driver of the overtaking vehicle.

    (2) This section does not apply to the driver of a vehicle in a funeral procession.

    (3) The offense described in this section, failure of a slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle, is a Class B traffic violation. [1983 c.338 §640; 1991 c.482 §16; 1995 c.383 §68; 2001 c.104 §307; 2003 c.819 §15]

    814.430 Improper use of lanes; exceptions; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of improper use of lanes by a bicycle if the person is operating a bicycle on a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic using the roadway at that time and place under the existing conditions and the person does not ride as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.

    (2) A person is not in violation of the offense under this section if the person is not operating a bicycle as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway under any of the following circumstances:

    (a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle that is proceeding in the same direction.

    (b) When preparing to execute a left turn.

    (c) When reasonably necessary to avoid hazardous conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or other conditions that make continued operation along the right curb or edge unsafe or to avoid unsafe operation in a lane on the roadway that is too narrow for a bicycle and vehicle to travel safely side by side. Nothing in this paragraph excuses the operator of a bicycle from the requirements under ORS 811.425 or from the penalties for failure to comply with those requirements.

    (d) When operating within a city as near as practicable to the left curb or edge of a roadway that is designated to allow traffic to move in only one direction along the roadway. A bicycle that is operated under this paragraph is subject to the same requirements and exceptions when operating along the left curb or edge as are applicable when a bicycle is operating along the right curb or edge of the roadway.

    (e) When operating a bicycle alongside not more than one other bicycle as long as the bicycles are both being operated within a single lane and in a manner that does not impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.

    (f) When operating on a bicycle lane or bicycle path.

    (3) The offense described in this section, improper use of lanes by a bicycle, is a Class D traffic violation. [1983 c.338 §701; 1985 c.16 §339]
    Would you like a long list of laws that automobile drivers constantly violate? Speeding, running red lights, running stop signs, following too closely, drunk driving and on and and on and on . If any group acts as if they own the road it is automobile drivers.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass_ View Post
    Is this you?

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=52898a040a0a" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Yep, there’s always some five foot tall inbred redneck piece of crap who thinks hiding high up in his diesel cab will make his testicles large. We have those sorts around here in California, too. The reason I used to carry a LOADED GUN when I’d go riding on the roads.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  57. #57
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    It shames me to see my company's engines used in that video. I got smoked today by a dodge with a cummins. The sad part is I probably work with the prick. I could tell he smoked me on purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyzbot View Post
    Would you like a long list of laws that automobile drivers constantly violate? Speeding, running red lights, running stop signs, following too closely, drunk driving and on and and on and on . If any group acts as if they own the road it is automobile drivers.
    Those automobile drivers if caught should be punished for breaking the laws. The cyclists that are caught breaking laws should also be punished.

  59. #59
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    I dunno. The spandex pants guys bother me the most. Ride two or three abreast, and refuse to go single file even when traffic is backed up behind them. I always keep to the right.

  60. #60
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    Wow, just watched that truck exhaust video. Those guys have some issues.

  61. #61
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    What do you guys wear when you ride? You can't classify folks by their pants. Alot of us wear spandex no matter where we are riding. this thread is just full of win. Aren't we all cyclists? I deal with just as many a holes on trails and roads as I do at work or the grocery store.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adim_X View Post
    What do you guys wear when you ride? You can't classify folks by their pants. Alot of us wear spandex no matter where we are riding. this thread is just full of win. Aren't we all cyclists? I deal with just as many a holes on trails and roads as I do at work or the grocery store.
    LOL! Ok. I wear a Bell helmet, T shirt, khaki shorts, and sneakers. Keeps me cool, but I'm not making any biking fashion statements.

  63. #63
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    don't know where your from, but if they are mountain roads like you say, i would assume that cyclists ride the more rural ones with less traffic.

    i live in a metropolitan area with a pretty decent amount of bikers and bike commuters. it can be annoying getting stuck behind a bike when there is no room to pass, but you get used to it, and it honestly has probably taken up a total of ten minutes of my time in the past two years.

    when i'm riding through busy streets i tend to stay just to the right of the middle of the lane so that a car will see me as they are coming up behind. once they are there i will scoot over as far as i can.

    my biggest fear riding a bike, more so than going otb, falling off a cliff or anything to do with mtbing, is getting clipped by somebody who just parallel parked and they open their door without looking. i have had so many close calls, and unless the driver is also a cyclist, they don't think about things like that when they go to pass you.

    riding a bike on the road will really help you empathize with roadies and understand why they are in the middle of the road "holding you up".

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    You jump to broad conclusions.How exactly do you know that we are in fact not following the laws?
    I have made no such "broad conclusion".
    My statement near the end merely says we should follow the laws as bicyclists... I never said anyone here was not doing so.

    If you are referring to this statement, "This whole, "We are vehicles too and we have a right to use the road even while ignoring the laws!"...", then I can see how you might think I was specifically addressing people here and I could have attributed it to other bicyclists not on this forum I guess... but with some of the comments, I do have to wonder about the "I'll do anything to keep a car from passing me" comments made already and whether that also means riding against the law even if it's unnecessary.



    Quote Originally Posted by floydippencott
    In my state bikes are afforded by law the right to take the lane if the shoulder is not appropriate or safe to operate a bicyle in, therefore making the onus on the motor vehicle to pass when safe to do so.
    Great!
    I don't know what state you live in nor do I really care in regards to this thread.
    I am not debating state statutes here.
    I am merely making my own comments like other people have already.

    Part of my post also addressed the attacks made towards the OP.
    I'm not telling anyone not to post... just adding my personal take on things as well.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    You jump to broad conclusions.How exactly do you know that we are in fact not following the laws? In my state bikes are afforded by law the right to take the lane if the shoulder is not appropriate or safe to operate a bicyle in, therefore making the onus on the motor vehicle to pass when safe to do so.
    So if the law says its legal to ride your bike on the road impeding traffic but you get hit by a car, ran over, and crippled, who wins? Did the law protect you?


    In the end the law of nature always wins, use what is between your ears, a friggin piece of paper saying one thing or another will not keep you alive, only your decisions and prevention measures will keep you riding and coming home safe at night.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by womble View Post
    The edge of a road is usually full of debris- loose gravel, bits of broken glass. So riding there is harder and more likely to give you a flat tyre.
    That are drivers are so busy blathering on their phones that they don't tend to notice people on the edge of the lane.

    And also because if they ride in the middle of the lane they are less likely to be blocked by a car when trying to avoid potholes, blown out tires, etc....

    And also because if you take the right side of the lane cars will try to squeeze you off the road making for a very very dangerous situation.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    So if the law says its legal to ride your bike on the road impeding traffic but you get hit by a car, ran over, and crippled, who wins? Did the law protect you?


    In the end the law of nature always wins, use what is between your ears, a friggin piece of paper saying one thing or another will not keep you alive, only your decisions and prevention measures will keep you riding and coming home safe at night.
    Riding in the middle of the lane is safer. Read above.

    Also, tolerance is encouragement. If we encourage reckless behavior by not standing up to it we, in the end, end up much worse off for it.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Riding in the middle of the lane is safer. Read above.

    Also, tolerance is encouragement. If we encourage reckless behavior by not standing up to it we, in the end, end up much worse off for it.
    not riding in the road at all is safest though, if breaking the law is for safety reasons, it would make the most sense to just no ride, that way you are safe and legal. however if someone does want to ride on the road, the least they could do is respect drivers and laws and do the speed limit, or pull over and wait for cars to pass if they are unable to do the speed limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wsmac View Post
    I'll admit that I think the OP could have used different wording in the opening post by not name-calling.
    Looking at the replies though, the majority here aren't any better.
    He gets slammed as a troll, told he doesn't have long here, on and on...
    That's a shame.

    When the point is made that legally, bicyclists are not allowed to slow or impede traffic in some states, none of you seem to accept this.
    What I see then is the same thing you accuse the OP of... elitism.
    This whole, "We are vehicles too and we have a right to use the road even while ignoring the laws!", is the same "it's all about me" attitude mentioned above.

    Every state I have ever lived in here in the U.S. has had requirements that all slow-moving vehicles display the slow-moving triangle, among other laws concerning the behavior of vehicles moving slow enough to disrupt the general flow of traffic.

    I understand it... and it doesn't get me all upset.
    I drive motor vehicles, ride bicycles (road and mtb), and walk along the roads and I'm happy to give way to a motor vehicle moving faster than me.
    I'm happy to pull over and let cars pass me... I'm going slow enough that a short stop on my bike doesn't really add all that much time to my ride... I can live with it.

    I used to drive ambulances and understand all too well the consequences of people who don't take measures to avoid conflict on the road... bicyclists, pedestrians, as well as motor vehicle operators.

    It would be wonderful if every paved road had a dedicated bike lane for bike riders to ride more safely in.
    The fact is this does not exist.
    There are laws... like it or not, and we should be following them on bikes just as much as we expect motor vehicles to follow them.

    You guys are all to eager to attack people here sometimes... too bad you can't lighten up a bit.
    makes sense, and seems like a never ending "battle". cyclists think cars are being elitists by driving on the road, so they hog the road in retaliation, becoming elitists themselves.

    standford campus is horrible, ive nearly nailed bikers many many times because they blow through stop signs and they are hidden by cars until they fly past them into the middle of the intersection. there was a big group one time that all started running the stop sign, so i slowly kept going on my right of way, they all ended up stopping or going around, but it seemed like a pretty dumb idea of them.


    someone mentioned registration/licenses fees for bikes, which makes sense to me in a way. why did it not work out?
    for me to use the roads i have to pay yearly registration, take a test and get a license, pay tax in gas to keep the roads up... why not bikes too?

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    If I stay way over to the right while riding, you will not lift your foot off the gas to pass me at a safe speed. Most likey you will not pass at a safe distance also. This makes me prone to ride in a way that forces you to slow down. I do not trust bizarre truck driving auto sapien individuals to blow by me at 60 mph 6 inches away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    If I stay way over to the right while riding, you will not lift your foot off the gas to pass me at a safe speed. Most likey you will not pass at a safe distance also. This makes me prone to ride in a way that forces you to slow down. I do not trust bizarre truck driving auto sapien individuals to blow by me at 60 mph 6 inches away.
    thats the problem i have. if you cant keep up with traffic, dont play in the road.you are intentionally breaking the law just so you feel safe (by "you" i mean people in CA that do what you say you do, its nothing personal). if 60MPH is the posted speed, then that is the safe speed, if you cant do that, you should find a different road, or you should accept the risks of driving on that road and allowing people to pass. no one is forcing you to ride on dangerous roads.

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    I accept the risks many days of the year, why do you think just becuse some vehicles (bicyles among them) can't go as fast as you we have no right safely use to a highway? Why are you so important you can't add 7 seconds to your pathetic commute to work to pass safely?

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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    I accept the risks many days of the year, why do you think just becuse some vehicles (bicyles among them) can't go as fast as you we have no right safely use to a highway? Why are you so important you can't add 7 seconds to your pathetic commute to work to pass safely?
    if youre breaking the law while "safely using the highway", then you shouldnt have a right to use it.

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    I have no idea of what you're talking about. Honestly, you can't get your bucket of bolts down the road fast enough because of a[I][ll the bike riders/I] you are impeded by? Well, then all of America should stop driving logging trucks, becuse those vehicles are the only ones I have seen impeding traffic, never bicycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    I have no idea of what you're talking about. Honestly, you can't get your bucket of bolts down the road fast enough because of a[I][ll the bike riders/I] you are impeded by? Well, then all of America should stop driving logging trucks, becuse those vehicles are the only ones I have seen impeding traffic, never bicycles.
    What about farm equipment? That stuff literally takes up the whole highway. Farmers don't deserve to plow their fields because they can only go 20 mph?

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    America is the land of the free, right? That means freedom to get on a bicycle and ride it in the way I see fit, if you don't like it move to North Korea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by venturi95 View Post
    America is the land of the free, right? That means freedom to get on a bicycle and ride it in the way I see fit, if you don't like it move to North Korea.
    Bikes and road usage is not protected, they are both privileges. and the US is far from free, everything you do is taxed and/or needs government permission to do.

  78. #78
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    Because we have just as much right as cars and after all in north America you can thank cyclist for modern day paved roads as they started the good roads movement and then the car came and stole them http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_...ment#section_1

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    Wow... there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much selfish "it's all about me" from cage drivers AND cyclists in here it's crazy.

    We have the three foot rule here in Utah and I try very hard to abide by it and appriciate it when I am riding and folks do the same. I never insist on the right away because I'm several thousand pounds lighter than most vehicles....I might take on a Smart Car if I'm in the mood.. but everything else is a no-win proposition.
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    What about farm equipment? That stuff literally takes up the whole highway. Farmers don't deserve to plow their fields because they can only go 20 mph?
    And let's not forget the Amish! Look at these two disrupting this poor truck driver while he's trying to text.....


    Let's share the road, people........

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    thats the problem i have. if you cant keep up with traffic, dont play in the road.you are intentionally breaking the law just so you feel safe (by "you" i mean people in CA that do what you say you do, its nothing personal). if 60MPH is the posted speed, then that is the safe speed, if you cant do that, you should find a different road, or you should accept the risks of driving on that road and allowing people to pass. no one is forcing you to ride on dangerous roads.
    60mph is the posted MAXIMUM speed not the minimum, average or even safe speed. I only know of a couple of neighbourhoods and towns that attempt to ban cyclists from the road and even they're going against state regulations.
    I ride on the road all the time and I take the lane because that's the safest place to be.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass_ View Post
    And let's not forget the Amish! Look at these two disrupting this poor truck driver while he's trying to text.....


    Let's share the road, people........
    Haha!!! Great stuff!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    thats the problem i have. if you cant keep up with traffic, dont play in the road.you are intentionally breaking the law just so you feel safe (by "you" i mean people in CA that do what you say you do, its nothing personal). if 60MPH is the posted speed, then that is the safe speed, if you cant do that, you should find a different road, or you should accept the risks of driving on that road and allowing people to pass. no one is forcing you to ride on dangerous roads.
    I will ask again. Since you're new to MTB'ing, and with your logic, shouldn't you find other trails since you're holding up faster riders? Or should they share the trail with you?

    Get off the trail if you can't go with the flow of faster riders... is this your logic? It is when pertaining to road riders. Should faster trail riders throw stuff at you while they ride by since you're holding them up?

    If you like, I would gladly do an unsafe pass around you at STCP if you think this is the way the world of cycling should be, throw in a shoulder or maybe an elbow. Or I can do what I normally do... be courteous to others, just like I am to road cyclists on the road while driving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass_ View Post
    And let's not forget the Amish! Look at these two disrupting this poor truck driver while he's trying to text.....

    Let's share the road, people........
    This is the entitled states of bygawd 'uhmerika. I shore do hate havin to dodge them slow movin POS's on MY roads. They make it tuff to update twitter ever few minutes on my drive home from work. I cain't even finish a six pack of Stroh's tween work and home anymore fer havin to watch out fer them road hawgs. I always end up having to give that last Stroh's to my 10 year old to help calm his nerves as he drives me home from work.

    I'ma thinkin that maybe we should just ban cyclist, farmers, and especially them Amish from using the roads since they cain't keep up with my truck. Them damn sissies. Let them hippies in disguise build they own damn roads. Them roads they build better not be too good or else we'll drive trucks down em and ban them sissies from using the roads they made.




    For those unfamiliar with it, this is sarcasm with a touch of redneck thrown in for variety. I hear crap like this all the time right before I tell people that I also ride a road bike. They usually quickly change the subject. I'm not here to condone unsafe riding either; road cyclist should make realistic route decisions and use safe riding methods. Equally important is the auto driver's responsibility in interacting with cyclist in a safe manner.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by marzjennings View Post
    60mph is the posted MAXIMUM speed not the minimum, average or even safe speed. I only know of a couple of neighbourhoods and towns that attempt to ban cyclists from the road and even they're going against state regulations.
    I ride on the road all the time and I take the lane because that's the safest place to be.
    60 MPH? That's nothing for cyclist. Here is the proof.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NrIh_XhGPxY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    The most amazing thing to me about this thread is that a cyclist started it. Having been on the "cyclist" side of this equation, I tend to be a much more tolerant motorist of cyclists. I predict this thread will end up in "The best of MTB WTF" soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I will ask again. Since you're new to MTB'ing, and with your logic, shouldn't you find other trails since you're holding up faster riders? Or should they share the trail with you?

    Get off the trail if you can't go with the flow of faster riders... is this your logic? It is when pertaining to road riders. Should faster trail riders throw stuff at you while they ride by since you're holding them up?

    If you like, I would gladly do an unsafe pass around you at STCP if you think this is the way the world of cycling should be, throw in a shoulder or maybe an elbow. Or I can do what I normally do... be courteous to others, just like I am to road cyclists on the road while driving.
    i actually have little time off and i hit trails on weekdays when i do have some time, its pretty rare that i encounter anyone, and the trails are wide enough for passing where im going to start out.

    when i get faster and more confident, ill go to the more challenging trails.

    Im not sure why you are bringing up throwing stuff or elbowing people though, that would be like hitting cyclists with my door or throwing my redbull cans at them, which i wouldnt do.

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    [QUOTE=fivefivesix;9541072]hey, im pretty new here. i recently got a mountain bike to hit the local trails and get a work out and have some fun. /QUOTE]
    You are a ****.

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    [QUOTE=anomaly;9543830]
    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    hey, im pretty new here. i recently got a mountain bike to hit the local trails and get a work out and have some fun. /QUOTE]
    You are a ****.
    a what?

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    "Im not sure why you are bringing up throwing stuff or elbowing people though, that would be like hitting cyclists with my door or throwing my redbull cans at them, which i wouldnt do. "

    It's enough that you even think the video of the asshat in the truck blasting people with diesel exhaust is funny.
    And you already proudly admit to blasting your horn, and spraying gravel
    It speaks loudly of your moral character - I think it's quite a fair assumption that you'd be the type to hit cyclist with your door or throw cans of redbull
    It would be the 'BRO' thing to do right?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    "Im not sure why you are bringing up throwing stuff or elbowing people though, that would be like hitting cyclists with my door or throwing my redbull cans at them, which i wouldnt do. "

    It's enough that you even think the video of the asshat in the truck blasting people with diesel exhaust is funny.
    And you already proudly admit to blasting your horn, and spraying gravel
    It speaks loudly of your moral character - I think it's quite a fair assumption that you'd be the type to hit cyclist with your door or throw cans of redbull
    It would be the 'BRO' thing to do right?
    How rude, I hate "bros".

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Riding in the middle of the lane is safer. Read above.

    Also, tolerance is encouragement. If we encourage reckless behavior by not standing up to it we, in the end, end up much worse off for it.
    No its not safer, people drive distracted and if you are in the middle you become little more than a speedbump in the end.
    Here lets make this crazy easy, lets say you are traveling at 15mph in a 45mph lane, that means you are traveling at 30mph slower than traffic, if driver looks down for a second then looks up and you are 20 feet in front, will said driver have enough time to brake or swerve?
    Probably not, your toast. Please read this and educate yourself further on reaction time.
    Visual Expert Human Factors: Driver Reaction Time
    But hey, Like I said before, we need organ donars so by all means, ride in the middle of the road and help out someone in need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec7 View Post
    This is the entitled states of bygawd 'uhmerika. I shore do hate havin to dodge them slow movin POS's on MY roads. They make it tuff to update twitter ever few minutes on my drive home from work. I cain't even finish a six pack of Stroh's tween work and home anymore fer havin to watch out fer them road hawgs. I always end up having to give that last Stroh's to my 10 year old to help calm his nerves as he drives me home from work.

    I'ma thinkin that maybe we should just ban cyclist, farmers, and especially them Amish from using the roads since they cain't keep up with my truck. Them damn sissies. Let them hippies in disguise build they own damn roads. Them roads they build better not be too good or else we'll drive trucks down em and ban them sissies from using the roads they made.




    For those unfamiliar with it, this is sarcasm with a touch of redneck thrown in for variety. I hear crap like this all the time right before I tell people that I also ride a road bike. They usually quickly change the subject. I'm not here to condone unsafe riding either; road cyclist should make realistic route decisions and use safe riding methods. Equally important is the auto driver's responsibility in interacting with cyclist in a safe manner.

    Well.... most Amish don't pay taxes so I'm cool with banning them. Abraham, Issac and Sarah can walk for all I care. Back at ya!
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Well.... most Amish don't pay taxes so I'm cool with banning them. Abraham, Issac and Sarah can walk for all I care. Back at ya!
    Is that true? How do they not pay taxes? And how do I become Amish?

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    My gripe is with maps, websites, etc listing the country roads where I live as "scenic bike routes". These are 40 to 50 mph county roads that have some serious blind curves and rises. No one dares jog on these roads. I won't ride on them due to the dangerous traffic and road conditions. Yet people come from miles around to ride their bikes here. A few get killed or injured every year. Go figure.

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    most laws put to onus on the cyclist to ride according to the law, but they also have some flexibility afforded to them by the law to make decisions based on what they believe to be safe.

    so unless you're out there on the roads and have a concept of what road cyclists face, you won't have much concept of what they perceive to be dangerous. I give guys on bikes the benefit of the doubt, but like any other user of the roads, some of them are boneheads and tools and take a bit too much liberty. if you're a reasonable person, you get over it.

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    Soooo after reading and posting in this thread this morning, the wife and I hit SR 9 for a 35 mile ride up to Zion NP and back...and WTF happens?? An ATV tour company (Mild to Wild Rhino Tours) Dodge 3500 pulling a flatned with two Rhino's buzzes me and missed me by (according to my wife) less than a foot.

    I was riding about six inches to the right of the white line climbing a grade where the uphill traffic has two lanes. There was no other traffic on the road for about a quarter mile ahead or behind this guy...nice. These Mild to Wild Rhino Tours folks are also the D'bags who have generated multiple complaints due to their lack of courtesy to cyclists on Gooseberry Mesa and nearly hit me/goups I was guiding on three different days on Goose.
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Soooo after reading and posting in this thread this morning, the wife and I hit SR 9 for a 35 mile ride up to Zion NP and back...and WTF happens?? An ATV tour company (Mild to Wild Rhino Tours) Dodge 3500 pulling a flatned with two Rhino's buzzes me and missed me by (according to my wife) less than a foot.

    I was riding about six inches to the right of the white line climbing a grade where the uphill traffic has two lanes. There was no other traffic on the road for about a quarter mile ahead or behind this guy...nice. These Mild to Wild Rhino Tours folks are also the D'bags who have generated multiple complaints due to their lack of courtesy to cyclists on Gooseberry Mesa and nearly hit me/goups I was guiding on three different days on Goose.
    does your state have a minimum space law? sounds like complaint territory to the company (though I expect that one to get ugly fast) and possibly to the authorities (just to get the issue on record...not that they'd do anything).

    also seems like a good reason to ride with a video camera running.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    does your state have a minimum space law? sounds like complaint territory to the company (though I expect that one to get ugly fast) and possibly to the authorities (just to get the issue on record...not that they'd do anything).

    also seems like a good reason to ride with a video camera running.

    Yes, it's three feet. We reported it to all three LEA's. These chowderheads are only a complaint or two from having their BLM permit yanked, they're uber D'bags.
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  101. #101
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    The lack of infrastructure for cycling is the problem. Mixing road users results in opportunity usage, regardless of any laws. The result is a turf war, survival group-riding behaviors, consequent power struggles, with manipulation of the rules and finger pointing on both sides.
    I don't rattle.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    The lack of infrastructure for cycling is the problem. Mixing road users results in opportunity usage, regardless of any laws. The result is a turf war, survival group-riding behaviors, consequent power struggles, with manipulation of the rules and finger pointing on both sides.
    What? There's plenty of infrastructure, it's called roads. I've found them very handy as they start at my front door and can take me almost anywhere I want to ride to. (Apologies for LOTR's stolen line)

    Cycle lanes do not make the problem any better, they just provide more ammunition to those that think cyclist's shouldn't be in the road in the first place.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by marzjennings View Post
    Cycle lanes do not make the problem any better, they just provide more ammunition to those that think cyclist's shouldn't be in the road in the first place.

    Huh???
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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Huh???
    I see where he's coming from. there are some places that legally require cyclists to use lanes when they're present. but many do not, and yet motorists still think that if there are lanes present, cyclists should be using them. even when the lane is not on that particular route. some motorists believe that cyclists should not even use routes that do not have lanes.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I see where he's coming from. there are some places that legally require cyclists to use lanes when they're present. but many do not, and yet motorists still think that if there are lanes present, cyclists should be using them. even when the lane is not on that particular route, some motorists believe that cyclists should not even use routes that do not have lanes.
    I see, but you forgot "and some motorists are so effing stupid they should be drained from the genepool".
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    Just because you can do something, does not mean you should, it is ridiculous to think we need the govenment to tell us what we can or cannot do.
    Logic says that a vehicle weighing two tons or more is right even if its wrong, i have zero Idea why that is so hard for cyclists to understand, but someone needs to donate organs so whatever I guess.
    SO I got a positive Rep for this post followed by "You are an Idiot" lol ohh the irony of calling someone an idiot yet clicking the wrong box lmfao

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    SO I got a positive Rep for this post followed by "You are an Idiot" lol ohh the irony of calling someone an idiot yet clicking the wrong box lmfao
    I've had one or two of those. too funny.

    there is a fine line to walk between asserting your right to be there and keeping an eye on safety. but you do have to assert yourself at some level to ensure that you are seen in the first place. if you are too meek, you will be ignored and that is at least as dangerous as being too assertive.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Huh???
    Sorry, but yes, I have be advised in the past that it would be in my best interests if I perhaps used the cycle lane rather than the road, or words to that effect. Even when there's no legal requirement to use such a lane.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by marzjennings View Post
    Sorry, but yes, I have be advised in the past that it would be in my best interests if I perhaps used the cycle lane rather than the road, or words to that effect. Even when there's no legal requirement to use such a lane.
    Ok.....my clue phone is just not ringing today. Why would you not use a bike lane if one is provided for you/us?
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  110. #110
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    Roads are not an effective infrastructure solution as they were designed for cars. Cars can operate at a certain speed, independent of grade, wind, or reacceleration when considered in terms of human powered bikes. Expecting motor powered vehicles to operate behind human powered bikes is ridiculous; fairness notwithstanding. The evolution to include bikes on roads with inadequate spaces further exacerbates the problem.

    Simply passing a set of laws and expecting them to manage the problem is unrealistic. The shoulder of a road is not infrastructure; it is relegation to the margins. The margins are largely broken and debris strewed; both destructive of small-tired human-powered bikes which can be blown off of a road. When bikes take the position on a road which does serve their limitations they challenge the predominant vehicles.

    True dedicated cycling infrastructure which considers the capacities of bikes must be created. Bike lanes, in terms of their scope, are very limited. Bike lanes haven't been around long enough for either bikes or cars to become accustomed to them. A cultural change like this will take 15-20 years or more. Meanwhile people will complain.
    I don't rattle.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Ok.....my clue phone is just not ringing today. Why would you not use a bike lane if one is provided for you/us?
    well, for some - I don't know about you - what is designated as a bike lane is the equivalent of 'quilting zone' - while in a baja race.

    It's 'funny' what my city does (Redding, CA) - and it's the same everywhere I have been
    They will have 'bike route' posted indicating you should go this way on a bike - then, 500 yards later there is a 'bike lane ends' sign - when there was no bike lane to begin with!
    What happens, is the shoulder ends.

    500 yards after that? "Bike Lane Begin" - when there was no possible way for one to re-route on this road - and it's just shlt shoulder!

    Like where did they expect these bikes to be coming from with this new 'bike lane begins'
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Roads are not an effective infrastructure solution as they were designed for cars.....
    well,... they were first made for BICYCLES!
    19th century cyclists paved the way for modern motorists' roads | Carlton Reid | Environment | guardian.co.uk

    there are several others [links], but I assumed, you Berkeley Mike - as a cycling coach would know this
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    I'm happy that I live in a bicycle progressive state. We have a mixture of bike lanes, separated bike paths and even separated bike paths + separated multiuse trails. Country roads are wide and often with a 8'+ paved emergency lane (mostly related to snow plow concerns from what I can tell). These tend to be clear of debris most of the time, too. But, even though we have hundreds, if not >1000miles, of safe passages for bikes, there are times you have to be on the road. That is just the way it is.

    Now I don't go planting myself in the middle of a highway where speeds go upwards of 65mph. I've never seen that happen in real life either. I have seen groups ride a bit wide on lower speed country roads, especially where the road is in poor shape and/or no right edge exists.

    I do plant myself in the middle of the lane in low speed urban streets at traffic lights, left turns or areas where there are right turns with yield signs. It isn't about impeding traffic in stop and go situations--my 0-20mph speed is comparable to city driving of cars--but rather being visible and driving offensively for where I want/need to be on the roadway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Ok.....my clue phone is just not ringing today. Why would you not use a bike lane if one is provided for you/us?
    Several reasons.

    1. Strewn with debris or construction
    2. Cars parked in it or it is otherwise blocked (oftentimes illegally)
    3. Path has a speed limit that is too slow or is otherwise crowded with slower users
    4. Intermittent lanes making it easier to just stay in the road where your behavior is more consistent and predictable. Unpredictability is a major safety risk for cyclists so being predictable is safer
    5. Need to make a left turn

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Ok.....my clue phone is just not ringing today. Why would you not use a bike lane if one is provided for you/us?
    Where to start...

    1, They are not designed to cyclists who like to average 20mph
    2, Most don't go where I want to go
    3, Sharing with joggers and parents with young children is dangerous
    (I'm 230lb and l like to go fast, not a good combination with stroller traffic)
    4, I actually consider them less safe; for example one near me is the sidewalk and at every driveway I have to watch out for folks entering or leaving their home.
    5, They are not kept as clean as the road, more crap that can cause punctures
    6, Even the one's that do go where I want to are often not the quickest route
    7, Are often not as well maintained as the road.


    On plus note, we're lucky to live near a park with a reasonable bike and hike system and while the speed limit while passing peds is 10mph I can at least on a Sunday morning get a quick 40 milers in without using the road.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  116. #116
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    ...normal and reasonable movement of traffic....

    ...so being I AM traffic, and am moving at a Normal and Reasonable speed for a bicycle in said circumstance...

    So what again was your problem?

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  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Roads are not an effective infrastructure solution as they were designed for cars. Cars can operate at a certain speed, independent of grade, wind, or reacceleration when considered in terms of human powered bikes. Expecting motor powered vehicles to operate behind human powered bikes is ridiculous; fairness notwithstanding. The evolution to include bikes on roads with inadequate spaces further exacerbates the problem.

    Simply passing a set of laws and expecting them to manage the problem is unrealistic. The shoulder of a road is not infrastructure; it is relegation to the margins. The margins are largely broken and debris strewed; both destructive of small-tired human-powered bikes which can be blown off of a road. When bikes take the position on a road which does serve their limitations they challenge the predominant vehicles.

    True dedicated cycling infrastructure which considers the capacities of bikes must be created. Bike lanes, in terms of their scope, are very limited. Bike lanes haven't been around long enough for either bikes or cars to become accustomed to them. A cultural change like this will take 15-20 years or more. Meanwhile people will complain.
    But as mentioned, we were here first. Now admittedly, cycling as a major option for transportation died out for a while, but it's coming back and I see no problem with sharing the road with cars and trucks. Even in giant truck crazy Texas I have had very few problems riding on the road. I take a positive position in the road, not primary or in the middle of the lane, but most often secondary about 3' from the edge.

    A dedicated cycling infrastructure would be a waste of time and money, we have the road, we are allowed to use it and it goes everywhere. I agree that change may take 15-20 years, but that change should be the acceptance that the road is a shared resource and not something just for cars.

    I had a driver complain to me years ago about cycling on the street, claiming I was holding him up just as we approached a long queue of cars. I ask him, who was holding him more, the queue of stationary cars in front or the cyclist off to one side. He didn't answer. Every person commuting to work by bike is one less car in traffic.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    well,... they were first made for BICYCLES!
    19th century cyclists paved the way for modern motorists' roads | Carlton Reid | Environment | guardian.co.uk

    there are several others [links], but I assumed, you Berkeley Mike - as a cycling coach would know this
    When Dwight Eisenhower became president he was cognizant of the state of American roads. During WWII he was responsible for moving huge numbers of men and materiales across the country as quickly as possible. When he became president he decided to fix what the saw was a major problem. Road building in the 50s and 60s had little to do with what he saw as archaic transportation methods. So we have the system which exists now, and it is braking down. Nowhere for bikes; the margins are decrepit.

    BTW, the reason NorCal High School Cycling is expressed through mtb? Road riding is considered too high a risk when you are responsible for other peoples children.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marzjennings View Post
    But as mentioned, we were here first.
    Being here first is nothing compared to being out-wieghed and-out positioned politically. Just ask our indigenous people. Being legally right is nothing compared to being dead right. I don't know about where you live but I am aware of a fair number of people on bikes, legally positioned, killed on the roads by the sane and the insane alike.

    We can all talk about how many miles we have on the roads. I have many, many thousands as do many of my friends. My team mechanic of 10 years is still rehabbing from an interaction with an auto turning left in front of him. He is a cyclist of many years and highly skilled. It was not his fault. He had the right of way; the driver never saw him. I photographed the scars for his lawyer.

    This cannot be unusual to the folks in this forum. To deny this circumstance, in spite of what is legal and right, is to be obtuse. As my mechanic always said: "it's all good until it isn't."
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    Once again noone is going to make an honest assesment of the role they play. It all boils down to common courtesy. I have run into many more problems as a driver then I ever have as a cyclist. No one group has an exclusive on a$$holes. Its really pretty simple. No matter what you're doing, dont be a di#khead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Being here first is nothing compared to being out-wieghed and-out positioned politically. Just ask our indigenous people. Being legally right is nothing compared to being dead right. I don't know about where you live but I am aware of a fair number of people on bikes, legally positioned, killed on the roads by the sane and the insane alike.

    We can all talk about how many miles we have on the roads. I have many, many thousands as do many of my friends. My team mechanic of 10 years is still rehabbing from an interaction with an auto turning left in front of him. He is a cyclist of many years and highly skilled. It was not his fault. He had the right of way; the driver never saw him. I photographed the scars for his lawyer.

    This cannot be unusual to the folks in this forum. To deny this circumstance, in spite of what is legal and right, is to be obtuse. As my mechanic always said: "it's all good until it isn't."
    AH! I got it! give up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Being here first is nothing compared to being out-wieghed and-out positioned politically. Just ask our indigenous people. Being legally right is nothing compared to being dead right. I don't know about where you live but I am aware of a fair number of people on bikes, legally positioned, killed on the roads by the sane and the insane alike.

    We can all talk about how many miles we have on the roads. I have many, many thousands as do many of my friends. My team mechanic of 10 years is still rehabbing from an interaction with an auto turning left in front of him. He is a cyclist of many years and highly skilled. It was not his fault. He had the right of way; the driver never saw him. I photographed the scars for his lawyer.

    This cannot be unusual to the folks in this forum. To deny this circumstance, in spite of what is legal and right, is to be obtuse. As my mechanic always said: "it's all good until it isn't."
    I do not deny there are risks in riding on the road, and I too have friends and family who have been involved in some sort of bike/car accident. I've been bumped a few times myself. But the chance's of an accident while cycling are actually better than when driving and even the chance's of dying while cycling (1 in 4900) are better than driving (1 in 83).
    (Ok pretty useless stats based on accident per population).


    If the circumstance is that we are better off not using the road or that we must give up and resign ourselves to the shoulder, sidewalk, or not cycle at all then I do deny that and allow me to be obtuse.

    I feel just as safe (or just as unsafe) on my bike as per driving my car.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

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    ****ing tryhards.

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    The road belongs to us all, and that is all I have to say here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I've had one or two of those. too funny.

    there is a fine line to walk between asserting your right to be there and keeping an eye on safety. but you do have to assert yourself at some level to ensure that you are seen in the first place. if you are too meek, you will be ignored and that is at least as dangerous as being too assertive.
    While that works excellent on a motorcycle as you ahve the ability to accelerate away from a problem, it only works poorly on a bicycle as you only have stopping and maneuverability to keep you alive. You should of course wear bright colors and ride in a manner which makes you obvious but does not make you a target, maybe that is what you are asserting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Being here first is nothing compared to being out-wieghed and-out positioned politically. Just ask our indigenous people. Being legally right is nothing compared to being dead right. I don't know about where you live but I am aware of a fair number of people on bikes, legally positioned, killed on the roads by the sane and the insane alike.

    We can all talk about how many miles we have on the roads. I have many, many thousands as do many of my friends. My team mechanic of 10 years is still rehabbing from an interaction with an auto turning left in front of him. He is a cyclist of many years and highly skilled. It was not his fault. He had the right of way; the driver never saw him. I photographed the scars for his lawyer.

    This cannot be unusual to the folks in this forum. To deny this circumstance, in spite of what is legal and right, is to be obtuse. As my mechanic always said: "it's all good until it isn't."
    Sure is nice to have a well thought out, educated, reasonable reply on this thread. You always bring something good to the table in a nice way. Sure there's been a few others, but it's usually enlightening, and always a pleasure to read your posts.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    You should of course wear bright colors and ride in a manner which makes you obvious but does not make you a target, maybe that is what you are asserting?
    That is a big part of it. Being visible so drivers see you. Lights, reflectors, bright colors.

    Position on the road is big. If you hug the line, drivers will try to squeeze by you in traffic. Riding far enough out that drivers have to wait for an opening to pass tends to cut down on the squeezing. 3' or so will usually do. That is also enough to have room to avoid potholes and storm drains when they are present, too. This is crazy dangerous when the road is narrow. If the road is narrow, then I avoid it unless it has a lower speed.

    You have to be smart about taking the lane. You don't do it just because you can. There are times that it is safer to do so. There are times it is not.

    You just have to be sure you are doing it because you are avoiding a situation that is even less safe and not because you are an a$$. It is uncommon for me to take the lane. The most common instance I do it is when in traffic at a stoplight or stopsign (esp when using a left turn lane). I move over when folks begin going faster than me. Nobody has complained about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorTC View Post

    The road belongs to us all, and that is all I have to say here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Ok.....my clue phone is just not ringing today. Why would you not use a bike lane if one is provided for you/us?
    They're dangerous.

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    I have all but stopped riding on the road, which is a shame cause I love it. Too many ******** cyclists and drivers here in Singapore...The idiot cyclists enrage the drivers, so the drivers take it out on all cyclists I guess. I sneak out occasionally, but am reminded pretty quick how dangerous it is when some idiot in a cage buzzes me.

  132. #132
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    all of the horror stories ive seen in this thread, and elsewhere, just reinforce my decision to not ride on the roads. im a big man, but not big enough to stop a car. there are plenty of people in the area who road ride but i have no desire to be amongst them. i would much rather faceplant in a rock garden due to my own faults, than be roadkill because of some jackass more intent on texting than paying attention to who or what is on the road.

    no thanks. good for you guys who do it, but ill stick to the woods.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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    Hadn't looked in on this thread for a day. Wow the ignorance is appalling.

    If I get into a disagreement with a motorist I ask if they want to call a police officer and see what they have to say about a cyclists right of way. That's when they quickly waddle back to their vehicle and leave in a cloud of smoke.

    There's something about getting behind the wheel of a car that changes some personalities. They go from being reasonable to "get the f out of my way because I'm the most important person in the world and if I have to wait a few seconds for a cyclist the universe will implode". I'm sure there is some hard to pronounce syndrome associated with this.

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    P.S.

    Is it bin time for this thread yet?

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    I choose to ride the way I drive, Unobtrusively.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    all of the horror stories ive seen in this thread, and elsewhere, just reinforce my decision to not ride on the roads. im a big man, but not big enough to stop a car. there are plenty of people in the area who road ride but i have no desire to be amongst them. i would much rather faceplant in a rock garden due to my own faults, than be roadkill because of some jackass more intent on texting than paying attention to who or what is on the road.

    no thanks. good for you guys who do it, but ill stick to the woods.
    Quoted for truth.
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    Are we just ignoring balls? Lol

  137. #137
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    An article I stumbled upon that's related to this post.

    Northern California highways to hell - SFGate
    You're not lost if you don't care where you are--- Tom Massie

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    Quote Originally Posted by scmclark View Post
    An article I stumbled upon that's related to this post.

    Northern California highways to hell - SFGate
    My wife and I not commute one of those roads daily.

    The only way in an out of the road that I live on was blocked by that bike race in the main pic. Luckily I was able to go fishing for the day and avoid it all.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Bikes and road usage is not protected, they are both privileges. and the US is far from free, everything you do is taxed and/or needs government permission to do.
    didn't read the whole thread - but gotta correct you on this.

    Access to public roadways is a right - not a privilege (per SCOTUS several times over)

    No government permission is required for anybody to ride a bicycle, it's an implied and automatic right...,just one that's regulated in accordance with public safety.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaBass_ View Post
    Off topic. Re: your avatar. SeaBass can you tell me the name of the movie with the guy in your Avatar. I've seen it a couple times, but can't recall the name.

    Thanks...Al

    On topic: When I was a lot younger and less fearful, I'd road ride without a thought, but in today's society and these idiot drivers, I tend to stay clear and do more of the trail riding, which is different than road riding, but I can get a good ride in. Also, when I do hit the road the trick I found is to go out in the wee hours of the morning on Sundays (not many cars on the road). Saturdays still tend to have a bit more cars on the road in the mornings because of work. Also in DC they have bike lanes and tend to be biker friendly because of the bike campaign push, the former Mayor being an avid cyclist, and lots of bikers in the city, which makes a difference for us cyclists. I have workers that complain about cyclist slowing them down and of course I have to preach to them and remind them that they, too, slow folks down at times; we all do.

    Oh and we must obey all traffic laws, just as motored vehicles do, so that entitles us to use the roads, too, but we have to be smart and know that we won't win the battle with a car or truck any day.

    Just One Man's Opinion

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    Last edited by Methodical; 07-30-2012 at 11:02 AM.

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    just a thought....
    the op was annoyed with cyclists for slowing him down. the consensus seemed - f u deal with it.
    couple of pages later we get these gems when talking bike paths...

    1, They are not designed to cyclists who like to average 20mph
    3. Path has a speed limit that is too slow or is otherwise crowded with slower users
    (Im too lazy to quote, these come from different posts in regard to bike lanes)
    hypocrisy much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    just a thought....
    the op was annoyed with cyclists for slowing him down. the consensus seemed - f u deal with it.
    couple of pages later we get these gems when talking bike paths...

    1, They are not designed to cyclists who like to average 20mph
    3. Path has a speed limit that is too slow or is otherwise crowded with slower users
    (Im too lazy to quote, these come from different posts in regard to bike lanes)
    hypocrisy much?
    And "you're an elitist for not wanting to get delayed. I break laws because it's convenient for me."

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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Well.... most Amish don't pay taxes so I'm cool with banning them. Abraham, Issac and Sarah can walk for all I care. Back at ya!

    Got Neg Repped for this post as being "non-contributory". Either the Amish are on-line now and exacting revenge or the guy/gal who neg repped me has no sense of humor.
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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    Off topic. Re: your avatar. SeaBass can you tell me the name of the movie with the guy in your Avatar. I've seen it a couple times, but can't recall the name.

    Thanks...Al
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    just a thought....
    the op was annoyed with cyclists for slowing him down. the consensus seemed - f u deal with it.
    couple of pages later we get these gems when talking bike paths...

    1, They are not designed to cyclists who like to average 20mph
    3. Path has a speed limit that is too slow or is otherwise crowded with slower users
    (Im too lazy to quote, these come from different posts in regard to bike lanes)
    hypocrisy much?
    It would be hypocritical to complain about not being able to go as fast as I like on bike paths if that was the only reason why not to use them. But it's just one of many reasons why most bike paths are really unsuitable for the non-issue they are supposed to address.

    So no hypocrisy here.

    But well done on filtering the available data to support the point you want to make, you must be a politician in training.
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  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Got Neg Repped for this post as being "non-contributory". Either the Amish are on-line now and exacting revenge or the guy/gal who neg repped me has no sense of humor.


    The Amish are a very disruptive element in this country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marzjennings View Post
    It would be hypocritical to complain about not being able to go as fast as I like on bike paths if that was the only reason why not to use them. But it's just one of many reasons why most bike paths are really unsuitable for the non-issue they are supposed to address.

    So no hypocrisy here.

    But well done on filtering the available data to support the point you want to make, you must be a politician in training.
    i was just pointing out that both groups are apparently annoyed at slower moving traffic. I'd imagine a common pet peeve would encourage some understanding, but i guess not :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    That is a big part of it. Being visible so drivers see you. Lights, reflectors, bright colors.

    Position on the road is big. If you hug the line, drivers will try to squeeze by you in traffic. Riding far enough out that drivers have to wait for an opening to pass tends to cut down on the squeezing. 3' or so will usually do. That is also enough to have room to avoid potholes and storm drains when they are present, too. This is crazy dangerous when the road is narrow. If the road is narrow, then I avoid it unless it has a lower speed.
    Then they just crawl up on your bum and lower their reaction time in the event something may happen.

    Edit:
    Lots of people on here hate the reality they are the low man on the totem pole on the road.

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    Probably not popular with the crackers in trucks who know the roads belong to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OGWGFIWRT View Post
    Hadn't looked in on this thread for a day. Wow the ignorance is appalling.

    If I get into a disagreement with a motorist I ask if they want to call a police officer and see what they have to say about a cyclists right of way. That's when they quickly waddle back to their vehicle and leave in a cloud of smoke.

    There's something about getting behind the wheel of a car that changes some personalities. They go from being reasonable to "get the f out of my way because I'm the most important person in the world and if I have to wait a few seconds for a cyclist the universe will implode". I'm sure there is some hard to pronounce syndrome associated with this.

    dumbassosis

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The Amish are a very disruptive element in this country.
    Was surprised to learn and see for myself that Amish supply most of the puppies round here with their mills. They even get their kids in on it. People who could make a profit from that are evil IMO. Not saying/don't think all Amish are evil, but they shouldn't be considered immune from criticism either.
    Round and round we go

  152. #152
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    They R&R too.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/E4_88b66DBw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited by AZ; 07-30-2012 at 06:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Bikes and road usage is not protected, they are both privileges. and the US is far from free, everything you do is taxed and/or needs government permission to do.
    Driving a car is also a privilege, not a right. Your privilege of driving a car can be revoked.

    Plus... you don't want eff this this Marine. Every Marine is a rifleman... but he doesn't need a M855 to crush your skull, like what he's about to do this this ****** when he used his shiny red corvette to bully a bunch of spandex-clad road cyclists.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    Driving a car is also a privilege, not a right. Your privilege of driving a car can be revoked.

    Plus... you don't want eff this this Marine. Every Marine is a rifleman... but he doesn't need a M855 to crush your skull, like what he's about to do this this ****** when he used his shiny red corvette to bully a bunch of spandex-clad road cyclists.

    M855 is a type of ammo, not a weapon.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    M855 is a type of ammo, not a weapon.
    No s**t sherlocke. referencing your screen name, since it's obvious you're referencing 5.56mm ammo.

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    this basically sums up 556

    Why do people hate cyclists?- YouTube

    <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/q80_BtDpkbk?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/q80_BtDpkbk?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    No s**t sherlocke. referencing your screen name, since it's obvious you're referencing 5.56mm ammo.
    Saying, "he doesn't need a m855 to crush your skull" makes no sense though.

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    For some reason that video made me think of this time that my friend was driving and a bunch of cyclists were slowing us down, do he passed the group, got in front of them, then slammed on his brakes. They all seemed pretty pissed that they got slowed down. Damn elitists!

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Saying, "he doesn't need a m855 to crush your skull" makes no sense though.




    Yes it does. Sorry that you don't see the sense in it, but it does make sense. Mods, why has this "member" not been banned yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Yes it does. Sorry that you don't see the sense in it, but it does make sense. Mods, why has this "member" not been banned yet?
    This first part that didn't make sense was the use of, "a" instead of, "an" before M85, second being the use of a bullet to crush a skull- Marines use stomps and butt strokes for that.



    Sorry to bring up such a touchy subject, I didn't know it would lead to such an emotional topic.


    ETA- M855 is an entire round, not just a bullet, casing, primer, or powder amount, so it would be very difficult to smash someone's skull with such an item. Even if he was referring to just the bullet, 5.56 isn't known to crush skulls.

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    I'm sure a few people would like to prove you wrong and show you up close and personal just how easy it would be.
    With my goldfish shorts swimming around my toes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    For some reason that video made me think of this time that my friend was driving and a bunch of cyclists were slowing us down, do he passed the group, got in front of them, then slammed on his brakes. They all seemed pretty pissed that they got slowed down. Damn elitists!
    ...and that's why that guy in the corvette has a guy in spandex ready to crush his skull.

    Why you think it's a touchy subject? A lot of mountain bikers also ride on the road, spandex clad or not.

    Hopefully, you'll never encounter cops on a training ride for the Police Unity Tour....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1of4Horsemen View Post
    I'm sure a few people would like to prove you wrong and show you up close and personal just how easy it would be.
    Seems excessive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    ...and that's why that guy in the corvette has a guy in spandex ready to crush his skull.

    Why you think it's a touchy subject? A lot of mountain bikers also ride on the road, spandex clad or not.

    Hopefully, you'll never encounter cops on a training ride for the Police Unity Tour....
    It just seems like a touchy subject because everyone is so mad and emotional about it. Talking about crushing skulls and acting with violence.

  165. #165
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    Wait a second. You mean to tell me that the 556 person floating around these is not specifically a gun cartridge. Who would have guessed given his literally view on things.
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  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Seems excessive.


    But appropo in this case me thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    But appropo in this case me thinks.
    I dunno... Tire pump vs M855... Not a good situation for anyone, and a situation that I would avoid at all costs.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    a situation that I would avoid at all costs.




    Yes, I am sure you would.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    It just seems like a touchy subject because everyone is so mad and emotional about it. Talking about crushing skulls and acting with violence.
    Like you and your friend passing a bunch of cyclists and then proceed to brake check them???

    Hypocritical, isn't?

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    Like you and your friend passing a bunch of cyclists and then proceed to brake check them???

    Hypocritical, isn't?
    Slowing people down isn't violent, crushing skulls for getting slowed down is.

    What's hypocritical is all of the cyclists slowing is down, and then getting mad when we slowed them down.

  171. #171
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    Brake checking anyone is not "slowing down", it is an act of road rage.

    If you passed them, then gradually slowed down... that's a different scenario.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Seems excessive.
    I've seen you get under peoples skin quite often. Personally I have nothing against you. I come here to laugh and have a good time with like minded people.
    With my goldfish shorts swimming around my toes.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    Brake checking anyone is not "slowing down", it is an act of road rage.

    If you passed them, then gradually slowed down... that's a different scenario.
    It's a passive aggressive act, not a violent one. Hogging the lane while going under the speed limit just to be a jack ass is also an act of road rage though. So it seems that everything was fair.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    .... Mods, why has this "member" not been banned yet?
    I am wondering that too

    Think a poll would help?
    This 'member' is useless to our community
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1of4Horsemen View Post
    I've seen you get under peoples skin quite often. Personally I have nothing against you. I come here to laugh and have a good time with like minded people.
    That's why I joined this forum. Hoping to meet up with locals and learn the trails, and have a good time and gain some knowledge. I was initially looking for a good beginners group when I joined.

    Then I pose a half rant/ half question, actually trying to understand cyclists since I plan on joining the ranks of them (off road) and I get **** on.

    It's obviously a somewhat significant issue from both sides of the spectrum. Drivers mad that bikers slow them down, riders mad that drivers get mad while riders are out enjoying a hobby. I think both sides have good points, and it seems that what either party is trying to accomplish just doesn't go well with the other.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    i was just pointing out that both groups are apparently annoyed at slower moving traffic. I'd imagine a common pet peeve would encourage some understanding, but i guess not :/
    Apologies for going off, and for a while after reading your post I thought, sh!t, maybe I am just as bad as the drivers that get p!ssed at me when I'm riding in the street by *****ing about the folks slowing me up on shared hike/bike trails. Maybe there's something to that and maybe if I we're forced to only use bike paths to ride I would turn into a abusive idiot.

    But, along with other reasons, this is why I enjoy riding on the street.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    I am wondering that too

    Think a poll would help?
    This 'member' is useless to our community
    Everyone has to start somewhere, looks like I started on the wrong foot. I'm sure that before you started biking you had nothing to offer either.

    Get off your high horse.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    I am wondering that too

    Think a poll would help?
    This 'member' is useless to our community
    His last post has revealed his inner Henry Clay--perhaps he is going to bridge the divide and be known as the great compromiser...nah.
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  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Everyone has to start somewhere, looks like I started on the wrong foot. I'm sure that before you started biking you had nothing to offer either.

    Get off your high horse.
    I've been Mountain Biking since the 70's - not sure what I could offer at 3 years old.

    I have been riding on the road since my teen years - I could offer guys like you a lesson on 'how it really is' mmm'kay?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    I've been Mountain Biking since the 70's - not sure what I could offer at 3 years old.
    Do they make mountain wheelchairs?

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    1. Everyone has to start somewhere,2. looks like I started on the wrong foot. I'm sure that before you started biking you had nothing to offer either.

    Get off your high horse.
    Yes on two counts

    This is why you get pounced on. Think before you post. Don't take anything on forums to heart or personal. They are called social skills for a reason.
    With my goldfish shorts swimming around my toes.

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Do they make mountain wheelchairs?
    yes
    Fourcross - Spinal Cord Injury Downhill Racing - YouTube

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    Honestly... ahh I give up

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Everyone has to start somewhere, looks like I started on the wrong foot. I'm sure that before you started biking you had nothing to offer either.

    Get off your high horse.
    when noobs start out on biking forums.... they have a tendency to ask questions about what kind of bike, tips for riding, tips for maintenance, etc,

    you start out with:
    - 23 year road trip
    ....
    then caused heat with your attitude with:
    - your buckyball thread
    - and this thread...

  184. #184
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    This guy's gotta be someones fake noob. Probably AZ........

  185. #185
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    Lucky you! You don't have to stop riding at your age!

  186. #186
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    A Sock puppet?
    With my goldfish shorts swimming around my toes.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent View Post
    when noobs start out on biking forums.... they have a tendency to ask questions about what kind of bike, tips for riding, tips for maintenance, etc,

    you start out with:
    - 23 year road trip
    ....
    then caused heat with your attitude with:
    - your buckyball thread
    - and this thread...
    That 23 yr road trip was pretty sweet!

    I haven't really run into any issues with my bike aside from shifting adjustments which seem to be a pain no matter what I watch or read. When my coworker gets back from their extended leave I'm gonna have them look at it.

    I've got a bike, so no need to ask what to get, and I used to ride a good amount, so I don't have any noob questions about riding just yet, but I haven't done much advanced stuff yet.

    I have learned so far that I probably shouldnt have got a full suspension, but that I should ride it anyway.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Lucky you! You don't have to stop riding at your age!
    yeah - you're right - 38 and got plenty of years left
    hope I don't have to stop because some jackwagon like you gasses me with exhaust and slams on their brakes in front of me.

    Why do you support reckless behavior? oh, is that because you are immature?
    yep, probably.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizon View Post
    just a thought....
    the op was annoyed with cyclists for slowing him down. the consensus seemed - f u deal with it.
    couple of pages later we get these gems when talking bike paths...

    1, They are not designed to cyclists who like to average 20mph
    3. Path has a speed limit that is too slow or is otherwise crowded with slower users
    (Im too lazy to quote, these come from different posts in regard to bike lanes)
    hypocrisy much?
    ...deleted misread message
    Last edited by Methodical; 07-30-2012 at 08:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    yeah - you're right - 38 and got plenty of years left
    hope I don't have to stop because some jackwagon like you gasses me with exhaust and slams on their brakes in front of me.

    Why do you support reckless behavior? oh, is that because you are immature?
    yep, probably.
    Immature as in riding a bike in the street and not letting multi-ton objects pass?

    Like I said, it seems like riders and drivers just aren't going to get along on the road. That doesn't mean people need to get off their bikes and jump on corvettes, just as people don't need to smoke bikers with their diesel. But it looks like the dislike of earth other from both parties will continue. Both parties know they are right, both parties know that the other is wrong.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    They R&R too.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/E4_88b66DBw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    LOL, Surprised again, at a pretty good performance, and most excellent song.
    Round and round we go

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    Immature as in riding a bike in the street and not letting multi-ton objects pass?

    Like I said, it seems like riders and drivers just aren't going to get along on the road. That doesn't mean people need to get off their bikes and jump on corvettes, just as people don't need to smoke bikers with their diesel. But it looks like the dislike of earth other from both parties will continue. Both parties know they are right, both parties know that the other is wrong.
    ok - let us go back to that video of the bikers getting 'gassed' - you know, the one you thought was funny.

    Show me where in that video that a cyclist was 'wrong' - do it!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  193. #193
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    Then when you have found no wrong, reflect on you and your buddy slamming on their brakes in front of cyclists and consider this:
    Doctor sentenced to 5 years in prison for assaulting bicyclists in Brentwood - latimes.com
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  194. #194
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    goddamn OP I hope you get run over by a freight train while your car stall on the tracks. You deserve it. Moron.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivefivesix View Post
    hey, im pretty new here. i recently got a mountain bike to hit the local trails and get a work out and have some fun.

    i live in the mountains, and all of main local roads are popular for road bikes on the weekends, so every weekend when i drive, i get stuck behind idiots that decide the road is all theirs. they go well below the posted speed limit and make passing difficult and dangerous. when i do pass, my truck usually gets really close to them and they yell something that i cant understand.

    if i cant pass i usually keep my horn on for a long while to let them know that i would like to pass, but they usually just flip me off and stay in the road.

    ive been behind a few that can keep up with the speed limit and traffic, but thats pretty rare.

    its pretty dangerous for everyone involved, cars have to cross double yellows to get around them, and ive helped a cyclist before that had a car clip his handlebars. he broke his shoulder when he fell and i assisted until an ambulance got there.

    a few years ago i passed a guy and there was some lose gravel, i guess a good amount of it got him because when i was stopped he caught up to me and told me to get out of the car, when me and my buddy did get out of the car, he yelled "slow down" and biked off, dunno why i needed to get out of the car for him to tell me that. if that had happened today, i wouldnt be stepping out of the car unless i felt that my life or well being was in danger if i didnt, and i wouldnt confront a situation that put me in danger without my tool that makes me certain i can stop a threat.

    from what ive seen, no good has ever come from riding in the middle of the road, or not far enough to the side. am i missing something? do riders like getting clipped by cars in hopes of collecting money? or do they enjoy watching cars hit each other while passing or something?

    is there secret biker honk i can use to let them know im cool and they should let me pass?
    I think you need to clarify your original post. Describe the road. You say cyclists are in the middle of the road. Are they? Or are they in the middle of their lane?

    Cyclists should not be taking up the whole road, but are entitled to as much of the right lane as they deem necessary for safety. Also, here in Maryland and some other states there is a three foot law, but cyclists are to ride as far right as practical, again a safety judgement. When entering an intersection it is best to ride in the middle of the lane, but then move back to the right after clearing the intersection. Also consider a car in front of you going less than the maximum speed limit. They are taking up the whole lane and legally holding you up. You can pass them when it is safe and legal to proceed. Just apply this same logic to cyclists as well.

  196. #196
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    Some inspiring videos.

  197. #197
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    Are you people the reason they want to ban guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Are you people the reason they want to ban guns?
    you'll have to clarify what you mean by 'you people' and 'they'
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  199. #199
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    You, as in you crazy demented people in this thread.

    They, as in they who want to ban guns.


    And if you're wondering why I'm bringing this up, well, It's because it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read this page.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Are you people the reason they want to ban guns?
    the ones that suggest crushing skulls and acting in violence in response to non-violence are the reason that people want to ban guns.

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