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  1. #1
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    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying

    What are these people thinking: "Look at those obviously experienced cyclist wearing helmets, whatda they know? I haven't done this in decades and I'm not sure what I'm doing; obviously I don't need any safety gear, we never wore it as kids. I'm not planning to crash!"
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  2. #2
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    man...today, it could have also been "the wave of noobs riding road bikes on the trails...with out helmets"

    there was a high percentage chance of tacos on the trail today!!
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  3. #3
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    oh god, no

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    man...today, it could have also been "the wave of noobs riding road bikes on the trails...with out helmets"

    there was a high percentage chance of tacos on the trail today!!
    Wut?? Tacos?? We get tacos on the trail?
    Screw helmets! you had me at tacos...
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  6. #6
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    The whole kit is where itís at.

    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-697e3159-8b32-4d61-b7ab-78d1d3b18eb0.png
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  7. #7
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    I was with a group a couple seasons ago and a guy rolled up with no helmet. An older guy in my group told him he should put a lid on, to which the guy replied that they "looked goofy"...


    Sounded to me like his brain wasn't worth saving anyways.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    I was with a group a couple seasons ago and a guy rolled up with no helmet. An older guy in my group told him he should put a lid on, to which the guy replied that they "looked goofy"...


    Sounded to me like his brain wasn't worth saving anyways.
    Isn't this a case of, Ēthe problem will solve itself, given a little more time?Ē Darwin has been proven correct, time and time again.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa View Post
    Isn't this a case of, Ēthe problem will solve itself, given a little more time?Ē Darwin has been proven correct, time and time again.
    Except the cost for emergency services, rescue services, life insurance, lawsuits against the landowner for "trail features" and other "unsafe conditions", hospital bills that get passed on to society, lack of ability to support the family, and so on...

    If the person did it on their own private island, then sure, it wouldn't affect anyone.

    If they were at least taking some responsibility for their actions, they'd be carrying around a DNR card and let everyone in their group know about it, as well as make sure it's easily retrievable. Set up trust funds for their kids, you know, actually take responsibility for the decision, rather than passing the crap on to everyone else that has to deal with it when they die or go comatose.

    No respect for these people that claim to be making "their own decisions" that are just passing the crap on to those of us in society that are the ones that have to deal with the fallout.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Except the cost for emergency services, rescue services, life insurance, lawsuits against the landowner for "trail features" and other "unsafe conditions", hospital bills that get passed on to society, lack of ability to support the family, and so on...

    If the person did it on their own private island, then sure, it wouldn't affect anyone.

    If they were at least taking some responsibility for their actions, they'd be carrying around a DNR card and let everyone in their group know about it, as well as make sure it's easily retrievable. Set up trust funds for their kids, you know, actually take responsibility for the decision, rather than passing the crap on to everyone else that has to deal with it when they die or go comatose.

    No respect for these people that claim to be making "their own decisions" that are just passing the crap on to those of us in society that are the ones that have to deal with the fallout.
    This.

    And, in addition to the things he mentioned, the trail that that person was riding will probably be shut down for a while as an investigation is conducted. Instead of that person taking 15 seconds to clear that 100m of singletrack, it will be roped off for a couple of days while the landowner agency takes a gander at the lay of the trail. Then, it will invariably be scrubbed of any and all fun bits.

    So, "personal freedom" is a misnomer. Sorry, but like some health conditions brought on by one's decisions (smoking, obesity in some cases, etc), we all pay for that decision or series of decisions.
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  11. #11
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    I had a friend join our riding group a few years ago, he was new to the sport. He showed up without a helmet and I told him he could not ride with us unless he borrowed one of my older spares. He was protesting but I stood my ground.

    He went OTB and took a header, literally stood up and had a chunk of earth n grass stuck on the helmet.

    He promptly bought his own helmet before the next ride.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    What are these people thinking: "Look at those obviously experienced cyclist wearing helmets, whatda they know? I haven't done this in decades and I'm not sure what I'm doing; obviously I don't need any safety gear, we never wore it as kids. I'm not planning to crash!"
    On Memorial Day, a gorup of us hit up a local trail system that was moderately busy. Frankly, I saw not one dome without a lid on it. It was nice to see.
    I cannot say it was a freeride or DH trail system so no "michelin man" style out there...
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    Not half as annoying as the wave of pearl clutching busybodies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I had a friend join our riding group a few years ago, he was new to the sport. He showed up without a helmet and I told him he could not ride with us unless he borrowed one of my older spares. He was protesting but I stood my ground.

    He went OTB and took a header, literally stood up and had a chunk of earth n grass stuck on the helmet.

    He promptly bought his own helmet before the next ride.
    I've had similar experiences.

    Every once in a while, someone at work will express interest in getting into mountainbiking. I'll always try to answer any questions they might have, going so far as to accompany them on a trip to the LBS.
    I tell them up front, they are absolutely more than welcome to ride with us - but they must wear a helmet.
    I'm not dealing with a fellow rider's TBI/AMS miles in the woods, if it can be prevented.

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  15. #15
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    Not planning on crashing. I just like to tell people I've only ever NEEDED a helmet one time while I was riding. I was on an old logging road/trail that was covered in baby heads and stopped for a drink. I put my foot down, and one of the baby heads rolled under it, and I lost my balance and fell over backwards and smacked my head on a rock. Fortunately, it was wrapped in a helmet. The helmet shattered. I'm still here.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    I was with a group a couple seasons ago and a guy rolled up with no helmet. An older guy in my group told him he should put a lid on, to which the guy replied that they "looked goofy"...
    I was that "guy" once, an OTB header into a tree quickly knocked some sense into me, won't ride without one now!
    Luckily I suffered no ill effects, wait......what were we talking about?
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  17. #17
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    This saturday leaving my ride I was driving from State Forest down through a State Park. It is always a peaceful road but on normal weekends is busy. During the "lockdown" it has been insane on weekends.

    A father with his approx 12 year old son passed me coming up the mountain road riding. Neither one of them had a helmet on.

    The incredible thing is that it's a tough climb and they were doing ok, so I really don't think they were new to the sport. I almost stopped but I'm not a confrontational person. I think an adult who chooses not to wear one is an idiot...but a busy road, and you don't put one on your kid??

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I had a friend join our riding group a few years ago, he was new to the sport. He showed up without a helmet and I told him he could not ride with us unless he borrowed one of my older spares. He was protesting but I stood my ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    I've had similar experiences.

    Every once in a while, someone at work will express interest in getting into mountainbiking. I'll always try to answer any questions they might have, going so far as to accompany them on a trip to the LBS.
    I tell them up front, they are absolutely more than welcome to ride with us - but they must wear a helmet.
    I'm not dealing with a fellow rider's TBI/AMS miles in the woods, if it can be prevented.
    I do the same. If you want to ride with my group, you wear a helmet or you don't ride with us.

    Fortunately, the trails in my area are bony enough that most people understand the importance of a helmet. It's the casual riders on gravel roads that often think they don't need them. And maybe they don't, most of the time. But all of my worst crashes have been in situations that have appeared to be the lowest risk. That seems to be a universal truth for a lot of people I know who have ridden bikes for years, so I think complacency is a significant contributor.

  19. #19
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    My backyard is on a very popular trail, I see probably 500 people a day ride past. A couple of weeks ago there were a few new riders without helmets riding by. But I am not seeing that any more, still lots of new riders but they are all wearing helmets now.

    Culture is powerful. If you live in a place where everyone wears helmets, people entering the sport will adapt the same practice pretty quickly.
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  20. #20
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    I see no-helmet riders quite regularly as well. I try to get my rides done earlier in the morning so I don't have to deal with the waves of new riders and families coming to the trailhead. It crowds up fast. Yesterday, I saw another wave of Trek Marlins with kickstands and people not wearing a helmet. I watch a lot of these people hit jump lines at high speed with no helmet. It does get old seeing this stuff on a regular basis.

    I live a half mile away from the trailhead and this particular bike park is family friendly. Once I get my new bike rack, I'm heading elsewhere on the weekends.

    Hopefully when people start going back to work, things will calm down. We will probably see a spike in used bike sales very soon.
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  21. #21
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    This sounds like a call for more strict helmet laws

  22. #22
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    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-oh-god-look-.jpg

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    This sounds like a call for more strict helmet laws
    Naw, just unrestrained public shaming.
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  24. #24
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    We're seeing the same thing around here. And people posting videos of them and their kids jumping and riding without helmets on local MTB group FB pages. When people call them out they either make excuses or get angry and tell people to mind their own business.

    As a parent of a young kid, I'm just grateful that it's "cool" to wear helmets in MTB culture. He also rides freestyle BMX, and that culture's norm seems to be NO helmets (which is so crazy with some of the shit they do). Luckily, he's sided with MTB culture over BMX culture on this issue.

  25. #25
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    I recommend helmets to people at our pumptrack regularly, but have no interest in joining the helmet police. Rarely see people out on actual trails without them though, it's mainly a BMX and Fred thing. The Freds are the most likely to actually need one IME.
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  26. #26
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    Lately my MTB friends have been posting videos of their kids shredding on their new bikes. They promote helmet usage so all is not lost for our future MTB generations. What's funny is that my buddy is a XC racer and his 2 kids are gravity riders. Both are under 10 and they fly down these jump lines like it's no big deal. I have no idea how he is going to raise them now.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I recommend helmets to people at our pumptrack regularly, but have no interest in joining the helmet police. Rarely see people out on actual trails without them though, it's mainly a BMX and Fred thing. The Freds are the most likely to actually need one IME.
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    I think they are effective. Just watch Pink Bike Friday Fails on YouTube
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    I slammed into a ditch last November hard enough to break 6 bones. My head also struck hard enough to require a few stitches; my helmet was dented, I think it hit a few small rocks and that impact telescoped through the helmet to my head, splitting the skin. But it was only a few stitches; hate to think what it would have been like with no helmet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    They're extremely effective. My kid has cracked 3 helmets in the last couple of years and hasn't had any major head trauma despite that. I hate to think what would have happened if he didn't have one on.

    I'm almost to the point of wearing a full face all the time and requiring him to as well as my main worry, now, is him face planting on a rock or tree.

  31. #31
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    When I first started riding nobody wore helmets and not too many of us died.
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  32. #32
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    Well, we need bodies on the trails to confirm darwi n theory

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  33. #33
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    I've seen helmets save lives.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    I'm able to type this sentence because I always wear a helmet. If I didn't, then I'd likely be either brain-damaged or dead by now.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    When I first started riding nobody wore helmets and not too many of us died.
    *insert joke about dinosaurs eating riders*

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogfly View Post
    I'm almost to the point of wearing a full face all the time and requiring him to as well as my main worry, now, is him face planting on a rock or tree.
    I don't wear a full face full time but probably could with the Stage and Proframe but someone could easily make the same argument about full faces vs the standard helmets we all wear. We'd all protest and say "we don't plan on hitting our face/jaw/cheek" or "it's not needed on a trail like this" but the amount of people that don't wear full faces in bike parks and on trails like Mount Wilson in LA always amazes me.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'm able to type this sentence because I always wear a helmet. If I didn't, then I'd likely be either brain-damaged or dead by now.
    Same. I didn't always but I do now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    Same. I didn't always but I do now
    Well, we didn't wear helmets when we were kids during the 70s. I have since I started mountain biking though.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'm able to type this sentence because I always wear a helmet. If I didn't, then I'd likely be either brain-damaged or dead by now.
    I can't remember the last time I hit my head (well, I did maybe 6 years ago at night in the winter due to not seeing a branch), but two weeks ago I hit the ground pretty hard, landing on my head and right side. I typically ride very hard and don't crash very often. I launched over a root mess, but somehow on the knowingly uneven landing area I got bounced left, which was towards some objects I didn't want to hit at that speed, then I ended up getting bounced right and hard against the trail. It shook me up pretty hard with some significant bruising around my hips, and of course my head hit. No LOC or TBI indications, but that was one of those rare hits where I realized I was done riding for the day (about 30 min in).

    These kinds of things are rare, but damn I'm pretty sure I would have had some significant damage without a helmet on this one (two weeks ago).
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  40. #40
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    We didn't wear helmets when we started riding mt bikes in 92ish. It wasn't something we even considered. I also didn't carry tools or an extra tube and I only had one water bottle that had to last the whole ride. We all have a learning curve, some take longer than others to learn.

  41. #41
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    Has anyone ever ridden a trail and thought that they had ducked just enough to get under the branch but didn't? and then after that imagine what that would have been like if you didn't have a helmet?
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    Back in the early foam helmet days I recall a kid I knew getting hit by a car and his head going through the windshield of the car. He wasn't wearing a helmet. The doctor at the time said if he had been wearing a helmet the Dr wouldn't be talking to him but his parents about arranging to get his body to the mortuary for them.

    However I recall that after this accident he was erratic, impulsive, and dangerous. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that death caught up to him a later date, through the barrel of a gun or a needle in his arm. With everything we know now this kid had/has a serious brain injury.

    Other than this case though, I have heard multiple times from multiple people that doctors have told them the opposite. "if you hadn't been wearing your helmet, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I would be consoling your loved ones instead."

    This goes with all the "I have seen so many 26ers on the trails/Noobs on the trails/ebikes going the wrong way/etc" threads here. Everyone is going mountain biking. People have pulled their old bike out from college and are giving it a spin. The important thing i think here is to wear your own helmet, just in case and be that person that helps someone without the helmet that crash no matter what, without judgement. They will already have paid a much higher price than our chagrin.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'm able to type this sentence because I always wear a helmet. If I didn't, then I'd likely be either brain-damaged or dead by now.
    How about all those times I only hit a low hanging branch and caused neck pain because of the bulbous helmet?

  44. #44
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    Are we really arguing about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Are we really arguing about this?
    Just venting I think
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battery View Post
    Lately my MTB friends have been posting videos of their kids shredding on their new bikes. They promote helmet usage so all is not lost for our future MTB generations. What's funny is that my buddy is a XC racer and his 2 kids are gravity riders. Both are under 10 and they fly down these jump lines like it's no big deal. I have no idea how he is going to raise them now.
    My buddy's kid would ride the stairs in the house on his Strider! Was awesome to see the little fellow haul the Strider up the stairs and watch him bomb it. Never will I see such a big grin as that little bloke had doing the deed and pissin off his parents!

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    When I first started riding nobody wore helmets and not too many of us died.
    But the drama queens...
    60's and 70's, we just rode what we cobbled together. We played tackle in the freakin street. Guess times have changed.
    Now I use a ProTec Ace or Classic cause I'm too cheap to pay for helmets that do not have a DOT rating.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    But the drama queens...
    60's and 70's, we just rode what we cobbled together. We played tackle in the freakin street. Guess times have changed.
    Now I use a ProTec Ace or Classic cause I'm too cheap to pay for helmets that do not have a DOT rating.
    Yeah, and as we get older we pay the price for the stuff we screwed up on our bodies back when we were younger...
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yeah, and as we get older we pay the price for the stuff we screwed up on our bodies back when we were younger...
    Ahhh, the installment plan! We threw ourselves against concrete walls repetitiously and are indeed paying the price. To think, we didn't have RedBull Rampage during that era.

    We were stupid back in the day...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    Back in the early foam helmet days I recall a kid I knew getting hit by a car and his head going through the windshield of the car. He wasn't wearing a helmet. The doctor at the time said if he had been wearing a helmet the Dr wouldn't be talking to him but his parents about arranging to get his body to the mortuary for them.
    why would that be the case? I cannot imagine how any helmet could be worse than no helmet when making contact with a windshield, was the technology really that bad back then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    Has anyone ever ridden a trail and thought that they had ducked just enough to get under the branch but didn't? and then after that imagine what that would have been like if you didn't have a helmet?
    I have when I couldnt see a branch clearly due to the sun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    why would that be the case? I cannot imagine how any helmet could be worse than no helmet when making contact with a windshield, was the technology really that bad back then?
    I think the doctor though that the soft foam helmet would have grabbed the windshield as he went through and broken his neck off, where the blood and skin lubricated skull just went right through. This was in the era of giro softshell helmets with the fabric covers. I also recall when these helmets came out there was video footage of roadies hitting the ground and the helmet sticking for a microsecond after contact causing additional injury, vs sliding. I was the next year that the micro shell helmets arrived. A short window where helmets could have been said to not necessarily provided more protection than not wearing one. Thankfully Giro and then bell realized adding that plastic cover made all the difference and now we live in a world of cheap MIPS helmets and I would never go back.

    I think one of the other arguments that people say for not wearing helmets, especially noobs, is that they are warmer than not wearing one, where this has been shown to not actually be true, with the vents in helmets forcing air across your scalp, drawing heat off quicker, aiding in evaporation of sweat, and protecting your scalp from the heat of the sun. I think when I lived in AZ, that I convince more new riders to wear helmets with that argument, than any other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    I have when I couldnt see a branch clearly due to the sun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    Has anyone ever ridden a trail and thought that they had ducked just enough to get under the branch but didn't? and then after that imagine what that would have been like if you didn't have a helmet?
    I hit a low hanging branch on an old trail in Tucson, it had a knob that stuck in the air port of my helmet and literally pulled me off the back of my bike. As my bike rolled away and I felt sack to tire contact, then proceeded to plonk to the ground. My helmet had a slightly enlarged port in the helmet but, sack aside, was no worse for wear. I hate to imagine what that would have felt like in my scalp. The great thing about scalps is they like to bleed like crazy, so I was pretty happy for the helmet that day.
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    Years back, my daughter was in hosp. for a major surgery. I was in waiting room, and a woman and a priest came in and sit down. Her son and his buddy had just finished building a bike and he took it and tested it on a jump they built in the street.

    The priest was with her b/c the kid was comatose and it wasn't looking good (she had to explain to someone on the phone what happened, so i heard every word very clearly).

    Perspective.

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    If they continue riding for long enough they will either learn to use one or deal with the consequences whether that be a bruised head, TBI, or death. I don't see anything that can be done other than calling it out when you see it. Maybe more legislation on helmet laws, but I doubt that would stop the majority of people.

    I didn't always wear my helmet when I started riding. I always did on trails that involved any sort of challenge but if it was through town or down a lazy bike path the helmet stayed home. That is until I had a nasty fall on a flat path that cut up my arm and leg but thankfully spared my head. From then on I always wore the helmet no matter where I was riding. Then just this year I was on another flat path where my front wheel slipped out from under me and I went head first into a tree. Cut my ear, broke my helmet, thankfully no TBI. Glad I learned in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spank View Post
    If they continue riding for long enough they will either learn to use one or deal with the consequences whether that be a bruised head, TBI, or death. I don't see anything that can be done other than calling it out when you see it. Maybe more legislation on helmet laws, but I doubt that would stop the majority of people.

    I didn't always wear my helmet when I started riding. I always did on trails that involved any sort of challenge but if it was through town or down a lazy bike path the helmet stayed home. That is until I had a nasty fall on a flat path that cut up my arm and leg but thankfully spared my head. From then on I always wore the helmet no matter where I was riding. Then just this year I was on another flat path where my front wheel slipped out from under me and I went head first into a tree. Cut my ear, broke my helmet, thankfully no TBI. Glad I learned in time.
    I started riding as a kid riding gravel roads on BMX, then a department store road bike, then a mountain bike on trails when those came out. I recall going to Santa Cruz back in the day and seeing all those mountain bikers out there with their foam helmets. I had to have one. I bought a foam cooler type and continued to ride with it on the road. I didn't start riding with it on the dirt until I decided that dirt was more dangerous.

    I also thought, and still do, that the road is filled with way more danger than the dirt. On the dirt you are in control of your own destiny, you control the trail, what you ride up and down, whereas on the road you share your path with a multitude of different users. Pedestrians, cats, dogs, squirrels, basketballs, cars, cyclists, motorcycles, etc, all with their own set of dangers they are watching out for. I had way more accidents and have had way more accidents on the road than ever on my mountain bike. Especially the unexpected ones.

    I still ride with a helmet in all conditions but back then trails were much less extreme and cyclists in general were much less common on the roads.

    Not sure what I am getting at but today i won't even ride around the corner on my bike without my helmet on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    Really?
    Before I explain myself, I always wear a helmet. If I am riding my enduro bike I always wear my heavier helmet and pack the chin guard in a bag up the climb. If you are not wearing a helmet I don't ride with you. A helmet is an easy piece of protective equipment to wear that has minimal comfort disadvantages.

    But I suspect the standard light weight bike helmet is a lot less effective for brain injury prevention than we would like to admit. Observationally I know quite a few people who have had bad concussions on head hits that showed minimal helmet damage.

    The research on it is mixed, some studies say they are effective, but there is other research that shows that countries with helmet laws don't really have a drop in injury rates.

    I just can't help but think that this $300 piece of foam on my head with all these holes in it for venting isn't quite the magic protective equipment that we think it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I don't wear a full face full time but probably could with the Stage and Proframe but someone could easily make the same argument about full faces vs the standard helmets we all wear. We'd all protest and say "we don't plan on hitting our face/jaw/cheek" or "it's not needed on a trail like this" but the amount of people that don't wear full faces in bike parks and on trails like Mount Wilson in LA always amazes me.
    Coincidentally, my son wears a Stage, and I wear a Proframe. Both awesome helmets.

    I wear mine more often than not. We do have some days in Arkansas in the summer where it would be pretty tough on a long XC ride, and I do opt for my half shell on those days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    Years back, my daughter was in hosp. for a major surgery. I was in waiting room, and a woman and a priest came in and sit down. Her son and his buddy had just finished building a bike and he took it and tested it on a jump they built in the street.

    The priest was with her b/c the kid was comatose and it wasn't looking good (she had to explain to someone on the phone what happened, so i heard every word very clearly).

    Perspective.
    I work for a non-profit that hosts science topics at a local pub every month. A few years back the topic from the speaker (a Dr.) was TBIs. The vast majority of emergency room TBIs related to sports/recreation was from cycling according to their stats. Other sports, like HS football, etc., were involved, but much less as a %.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I can't remember the last time I hit my head (well, I did maybe 6 years ago at night in the winter due to not seeing a branch), but two weeks ago I hit the ground pretty hard, landing on my head and right side. I typically ride very hard and don't crash very often. I launched over a root mess, but somehow on the knowingly uneven landing area I got bounced left, which was towards some objects I didn't want to hit at that speed, then I ended up getting bounced right and hard against the trail. It shook me up pretty hard with some significant bruising around my hips, and of course my head hit. No LOC or TBI indications, but that was one of those rare hits where I realized I was done riding for the day (about 30 min in).

    These kinds of things are rare, but damn I'm pretty sure I would have had some significant damage without a helmet on this one (two weeks ago).
    About 20 years ago, I'm not exactly sure what happened, but I think my front wheel caught a root at high speed and I went OTB and slammed head-first into the ground. It completely destroyed my helmet and left me with a concussion. I was riding solo and had quite a time trying to figure out how to get back to my truck. I can't imagine what would have happened if I wasn't wearing a helmet, although I'm sure many on MTBR likely question if I actually didn't get some brain damage. ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I work for a non-profit that hosts science topics at a local pub every month. A few years back the topic from the speaker (a Dr.) was TBIs. The vast majority of emergency room TBIs related to sports/recreation was from cycling according to their stats. Other sports, like HS football, etc., were involved, but much less as a %.
    Yep, from this 2009 study
    https://www.aans.org/en/Patients/Neu...ed-Head-Injury

    Cycling: 85,389
    Football: 46,948
    Baseball and Softball: 38,394
    Basketball: 34,692
    Water Sports (Diving, Scuba Diving, Surfing, Swimming, Water Polo, Water Skiing, Water Tubing): 28,716
    Powered Recreational Vehicles (ATVs, Dune Buggies, Go-Carts, Mini bikes, Off-road): 26,606
    Soccer: 24,184
    Skateboards/Scooters: 23,114
    Fitness/Exercise/Health Club: 18,012
    Winter Sports (Skiing, Sledding, Snowboarding, Snowmobiling): 16,948
    Horseback Riding: 14,466
    Gymnastics/Dance/Cheerleading: 10,223
    Golf: 10,035
    Hockey: 8,145
    Other Ball Sports and Balls, Unspecified: 6,883
    Trampolines: 5,919
    Rugby/Lacrosse: 5,794
    Roller and Inline Skating: 3,320
    Ice Skating: 4,608

    Every year, more than 500,000 people visit emergency rooms in the U.S. with bicycle-related injuries. In 2009, nearly 85,000 of those were head injuries. There are about 600 deaths a year, with two-thirds being attributed to TBI. It is estimated that up to 85 percent of head injuries can be prevented through proper usage of helmets, such as those approved by The Snell Memorial Foundation, American National Standards Institute (ANSI) or American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). It is essential that the helmet fit properly so that it doesn't fall off while the user is riding or if he or she takes a fall. According to Safe Kids Worldwide, more children from ages five to 14 are seen in emergency rooms for biking-related injuries than from any other sport. Helmets can reduce the risk of severe brain injuries by 88 percent. However, approximately 55 percent of children are reported as not always wearing a helmet while bike riding.


    Both my son and I wear a helmet every time we ride, even if its just on a gravel path. At 3 years old he knew to put on his helmet before he got on his bike

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    Golf? 10k? I'd love to see how those happened. LoL 😂
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    Good job!

    I wear a helmet 99% of the time. The 1% is a bad habit I have of lubing my chain, then riding it for 1 min to get the lube to set/sink in, then I wipe it off. The UCI/USAF race officials are always giving me heck for doing this in the TH parking lot pre-race time.

    I will not ride with anyone who does not wear a helmet. I do however, up-cycle my old helmets to anyone in need (if they are useable).

    A few years ago, my wife and I were able to procure about 100 Bell entry-level helmets (white foam with plastic tops). We donated them to the local mtb association who gave them out to those in need.

    All of our local mtb trails have signs posted "helmets required". Fortunately, I have not seen anyone riding nekkid-head for a while.

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    Hockey is safer than golf?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Hockey is safer than golf?
    I asked myself the same question. I'm calling that study " A LOAD OF..... UMMMMM CRAP" 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Not planning on crashing. I just like to tell people I've only ever NEEDED a helmet one time while I was riding. I was on an old logging road/trail that was covered in baby heads and stopped for a drink. I put my foot down, and one of the baby heads rolled under it, and I lost my balance and fell over backwards and smacked my head on a rock. Fortunately, it was wrapped in a helmet. The helmet shattered. I'm still here.
    Yup. And gravel roads are just as "dangerous".

    All the "bruhs" that hang their full face helmets on their handlebars while climbing up to their downhill make me shake my head.

    When I'm coaching and the kids do this to be cool (figuratively and literally - they use the temp as justification), I tell them when you're in my group, you wear your helmet. Down and back up. Guess I'm the old, fuddy duddy uncool coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    I asked myself the same question. I'm calling that study " A LOAD OF..... UMMMMM CRAP" 
    https://golfsupport.com/blog/sports-...us-than-rugby/

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    Golf is for rich fat white guys like trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Hockey is safer than golf?
    Or fewer people play hockey, and they wear helmets, and they aren't walking into swinging steel sticks.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    Yup. And gravel roads are just as "dangerous".

    All the "bruhs" that hang their full face helmets on their handlebars while climbing up to their downhill make me shake my head.

    When I'm coaching and the kids do this to be cool (figuratively and literally - they use the temp as justification), I tell them when you're in my group, you wear your helmet. Down and back up. Guess I'm the old, fuddy duddy uncool coach.
    I've seen this too, but I couldn't imagine trying to ride with a helmet hanging off my bars. Granted all of the climbs I ride are singletrack rather than dirt roads so that may have something to do with it.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Hockey is safer than golf?
    Probably not, but probably a fraction of the number of people that golf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    Golf? 10k? I'd love to see how those happened. LoL 



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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    Golf? 10k? I'd love to see how those happened. LoL 😂
    I wonder how many of those are from elderly players losing their balance or footing and falling and hitting their head, or how many are from falling or crashing a golf cart and how many are from getting hit by a ball or a club?.

    I had an acquaintance that was screwing around with friends on a golf course and took a ball to the eye socket. Detached retina and broken face bones. That would fit in this category.

    I also think that hockey mandates helmets for use, and most leagues outside of college and professional limit checking, hitting, and fighting. I could see how it could be safer for TBI than golf.
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    my helmet saves me more from head strikes on low hanging branches than actual falls. My helmet looks like the moon...I hve only really had 3 or 4 OTB's where the helmet struck the ground, but I always tag a low hanging vine, or branch that would really hurt if the helmet was not on...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I wonder how many of those are from elderly players losing their balance or footing and falling and hitting their head, or how many are from falling or crashing a golf cart and how many are from getting hit by a ball or a club?.

    I had an acquaintance that was screwing around with friends on a golf course and took a ball to the eye socket. Detached retina and broken face bones. That would fit in this category.

    I also think that hockey mandates helmets for use, and most leagues outside of college and professional limit checking, hitting, and fighting. I could see how it could be safer for TBI than golf.
    And from my experience, alcohol is more likely to have been involved with golf.
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    Amazing where this thread has gone. Carry on now boys. Bring on your Googled stats for clarification of facts. Lol
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    Motor vehicle accidents are one of the highest causes of traumatic brain injury. Why aren't you guys wearing helmets when driving? That's right - you're a bunch of finger wagging hypocrites. Really, this foam hat worship gets ridiculous. It doesn't do as much as you guys think. Wear them if you want, but get off the high horse. Riding a bike without a helmet is statistically not very dangerous.

    Two scenarios: 1. You crash with a helmet on, get a concussion, conclude if you had not worn a helmet you would have died. 2. You crash without a helmet, get a concussion, conclude that you wouldn't have had a concussion if you had a helmet on.

    Anybody see the problem here? The helmet is always assumed to be effective no matter what happens. But think of the physics involved. You are flying through the air, the helmet hits the ground, and somehow the crushing of that tiny amount of foam is going to decelerate your brain softly in the space of half an inch. No way, compadre. It will help a little bit. But it's not magic. If you keep crashing and landing on you head, maybe the helmet didn't work and you are too stupid to quit riding like you should.

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    So you are one of the ones thatís ok passing the aftermath of your cycling related TBI or death on to others?
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    my helmet saves me more from head strikes on low hanging branches than actual falls. My helmet looks like the moon...I hve only really had 3 or 4 OTB's where the helmet struck the ground, but I always tag a low hanging vine, or branch that would really hurt if the helmet was not on...
    It actually doesn't. If you weren't wearing it, you'd have about an inch extra clearance between you and the branch, & would not hit it. Your brain isn't properly programmed to gauge the extra height, as you don't wear a helmet in the vast majority of your waking hours

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Someone sliced their drive directly into my forehead from 200 yards out once.
    Biking by a local golf course, I was whacked in the shoulder by an errant ball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Someone sliced their drive directly into my forehead from 200 yards out once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And from my experience, alcohol is more likely to have been involved with golf.
    Damn this scared me. No more drunk night rides for me 😧
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And from my experience, alcohol is more likely to have been involved with golf.
    Oh yeah, I could definitely see that as being a big risk factor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    It actually doesn't. If you weren't wearing it, you'd have about an inch extra clearance between you and the branch, & would not hit it. Your brain isn't properly programmed to gauge the extra height, as you don't wear a helmet in the vast majority of your waking hours
    no, if I wasn't wearing it, my head would be higher up by that inch, and still tagging the branch or trunk as I am cutting it pretty close....and most of the strikes happen via an impediment that I don't even see till it is too late...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    Motor vehicle accidents are one of the highest causes of traumatic brain injury. Why aren't you guys wearing helmets when driving? That's right - you're a bunch of finger wagging hypocrites. Really, this foam hat worship gets ridiculous. It doesn't do as much as you guys think. Wear them if you want, but get off the high horse. Riding a bike without a helmet is statistically not very dangerous.

    Two scenarios: 1. You crash with a helmet on, get a concussion, conclude if you had not worn a helmet you would have died. 2. You crash without a helmet, get a concussion, conclude that you wouldn't have had a concussion if you had a helmet on.

    Anybody see the problem here? The helmet is always assumed to be effective no matter what happens. But think of the physics involved. You are flying through the air, the helmet hits the ground, and somehow the crushing of that tiny amount of foam is going to decelerate your brain softly in the space of half an inch. No way, compadre. It will help a little bit. But it's not magic. If you keep crashing and landing on you head, maybe the helmet didn't work and you are too stupid to quit riding like you should.
    My wife is a radiologist. I've seen the fractured skulls of kids and adults from crashes that would have been no problem had they been wearing helmets. I've personally seen grown men taken away in ambulances from low speed falls on motorcycles where a helmet would have saved them. But sure, they do nothing.

    Growing up in the helmet hating BMX scene of the 90's I can attest to some nasty head injuries on friends in that time as well. That's not to say they stop you from getting any injuries at all.
    . . . . . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    Motor vehicle accidents are one of the highest causes of traumatic brain injury. Why aren't you guys wearing helmets when driving? That's right - you're a bunch of finger wagging hypocrites. Really, this foam hat worship gets ridiculous. It doesn't do as much as you guys think. Wear them if you want, but get off the high horse. Riding a bike without a helmet is statistically not very dangerous.

    Two scenarios: 1. You crash with a helmet on, get a concussion, conclude if you had not worn a helmet you would have died. 2. You crash without a helmet, get a concussion, conclude that you wouldn't have had a concussion if you had a helmet on.

    Anybody see the problem here? The helmet is always assumed to be effective no matter what happens. But think of the physics involved. You are flying through the air, the helmet hits the ground, and somehow the crushing of that tiny amount of foam is going to decelerate your brain softly in the space of half an inch. No way, compadre. It will help a little bit. But it's not magic. If you keep crashing and landing on you head, maybe the helmet didn't work and you are too stupid to quit riding like you should.
    For the sake of argument, let's imagine a third scenario. You and a buddy are abducted by aliens who are doing experiments on humans. They're planning to test your skulls' failure points by hitting you over the heads with a 2x4. One of you will be allowed to wear a helmet. You are asked to decide which of you wears the helmet. So you give it to your buddy, right?
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    An older guy in my group told him he should put a lid on, to which the guy replied that they "looked goofy"
    You see this attitude all the time in big game and upland bird hunting Ė guys not wanting to wear blaze orange clothing because they don't like the look. Their personal safety be damned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    The whole kit is where itís at.

    Never seen this one! Perfect

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    Motor vehicle accidents are one of the highest causes of traumatic brain injury. Why aren't you guys wearing helmets when driving? That's right - you're a bunch of finger wagging hypocrites. Really, this foam hat worship gets ridiculous. It doesn't do as much as you guys think. Wear them if you want, but get off the high horse. Riding a bike without a helmet is statistically not very dangerous.

    Two scenarios: 1. You crash with a helmet on, get a concussion, conclude if you had not worn a helmet you would have died. 2. You crash without a helmet, get a concussion, conclude that you wouldn't have had a concussion if you had a helmet on.

    Anybody see the problem here? The helmet is always assumed to be effective no matter what happens. But think of the physics involved. You are flying through the air, the helmet hits the ground, and somehow the crushing of that tiny amount of foam is going to decelerate your brain softly in the space of half an inch. No way, compadre. It will help a little bit. But it's not magic. If you keep crashing and landing on you head, maybe the helmet didn't work and you are too stupid to quit riding like you should.
    While a hemmit might offer some protection from injury or worse, they certainly aren't the gospel that some are professing. What I do not do is dictate to others one way or the other on use or non-use choice. I chose to continue to use my inexpensive ProTec since it is comfortable enough and reasonably priced insurance against the small bumps.
    What I see as a non starter is the mylar covered styrofoam helmet. On par with going to 7-11 and buying a styrofoam cooler and slipping it on your melon!

    When my buddy ate it on the old Doc Holiday trail before it was destroyed, he had a ProTec Ace strapped on his melon, it split but contained the grey matter. Cheap insureance since there was no diagnosis of concussion but was of a separated shoulder. Not a bad outcome from such an incident, fortunately!

    Moving forward, mountain biking is inherently dangerous, so we, like idiots do it cause it is.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    no, if I wasn't wearing it, my head would be higher up by that inch, and still tagging the branch or trunk as I am cutting it pretty close....and most of the strikes happen via an impediment that I don't even see till it is too late...
    You ride around smashing your head into objects that you don't even see? Really?
    I think you've got more pressing issues than whether to wear a helmet or not. Just quietly.

  92. #92
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    The first time a helmet saved me was in the late 80s. I was just out of high school and bought my second mountain bike, a 88 Schwinn High Sierra. I also bought my first helmet. A fabric covered Giro. Before that I only wore cycling caps but picked up a MBA, thumbed through it and wanted to look the part.

    Not long after, I was riding solo in the hills and hit a gap jump. I came up short and wadded up on the vertical dirt wall. I dusted myself off and continued my ride. When I pulled into my driveway, I took the helmet off and it folded in half. The cover was holding it together.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    You ride around smashing your head into objects that you don't even see? Really?
    I think you've got more pressing issues than whether to wear a helmet or not. Just quietly.
    You don't ride tight, twisty singletrack through the woods I take it. That's also why I always wear glasses, I don't want a stick in the eye.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    A little bit on that

    https://www.velonews.com/gear/swedis...-for-cyclists/

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    The traffic has gone way down now, but in the midst of the lockdown our local trails were crawling with folks on new bikes straight from walmart and the official mountain biking uniform of jeans, sneakers, and no helmet.

    I'm still finding little bits and pieces of those walmart bikes all over the trail.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by celswick View Post
    The traffic has gone way down now, but in the midst of the lockdown our local trails were crawling with folks on new bikes straight from walmart and the official mountain biking uniform of jeans, sneakers, and no helmet.

    I'm still finding little bits and pieces of those walmart bikes all over the trail.
    It's a good time to collect reflectors!

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    You ride around smashing your head into objects that you don't even see? Really?
    I think you've got more pressing issues than whether to wear a helmet or not. Just quietly.
    no. My intention is not to seek out low hanging branches and run into them. I am just riding in areas where sometimes the tree cover is low. Or the trail turns close to trees...
    Go Practice. Figure it out - Fleas

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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You don't ride tight, twisty singletrack through the woods I take it. That's also why I always wear glasses, I don't want a stick in the eye.
    truth
    Go Practice. Figure it out - Fleas

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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    truth
    Fiction. Absolute.
    I've only been riding for about 50 years, so not as much experience as some, but if I were relying on a little blob of Polystyrene perched on my head to keep me "safe" & protect it from getting smashed into things that I didn't see, I'd be taking a good long look at myself, & perhaps trying out something a little bit different than bike riding. But that's just me.
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-25459319588.jpg
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-rocks.jpg
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-baby.jpg

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Fiction. Absolute.
    I've only been riding for about 50 years, so not as much experience as some, but if I were relying on a little blob of Polystyrene perched on my head to keep me "safe" & protect it from getting smashed into things that I didn't see, I'd be taking a good long look at myself, & perhaps trying out something a little bit different than bike riding. But that's just me.
    I've been walking for 50 years but still trip once in a while, no one sets out to hit a tree or faceplant OTB but if you're out on the trail it's best to plan for the unexpected.
    Most trails I've ridden have downed trees across them, wind happens, if you're the first one to find it there's not always time to stop.
    Not everyone rides the same as you seem to be suggesting, the Dork Disk on your bike suggests you don't ride as aggressively as others. YMMV
    '18 Ithaqua, '16 Bucksaw, '14 Mukluk, '07 Enduro

  101. #101
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    You guys could argue about a pair of underwear that didnít fit right.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat-in-Fundy View Post
    I've been walking for 50 years but still trip once in a while, no one sets out to hit a tree or faceplant OTB but if you're out on the trail it's best to plan for the unexpected.
    Most trails I've ridden have downed trees across them, wind happens, if you're the first one to find it there's not always time to stop.
    Not everyone rides the same as you seem to be suggesting, the Dork Disk on your bike suggests you don't ride as aggressively as others. YMMV
    Ha ha ha. Because I'm a bit older, I'm not up with the current trend setters lingo, so I've no idea what you're actually talking about. But, seeing that you included that photo in your quote, I'll assume it's something to do with that bike. Which, isn't actually my bike. It's actually one I borrowed, while on holidays in another country, to go check out some trails in the hills behind our accommodation. So no, I didn't try & break it, or ride it particularly aggressively. If you care to look a little bit closer, you'll also see the removable kiddie trailer hitch, or whatever it is still mounted to the frame. Oh the shame. How could a macho, red blooded MTB cool dude lower themselves to that level? Lol. I still had fun
    Nice bit of selective editing by the way. And assumptions too. Good work.
    Personally, I couldn't care less what you wear when riding. You could ride in a 2 piece bikini for all I care. But, when you start telling us all about how that little blob of Polystyrene is somehow helpful as you ride around banging your head on trees & things, don't be surprised if someone makes a comment in regards to how ludicrous that mind set is.
    I've nothing against bike helmets. In winter. They're quite good at keeping your head warm. But come spring/summer/autumn, it's baseball cap all the way

  103. #103
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    Someone once posted long ago that the absence of a helmet is proof of a previous head injury.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    You guys could argue about a pair of underwear that didnít fit right.
    Anyone not wearing boxer briefs now-a-days? Do they even still make tighty whiteys?
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    You guys could argue about a pair of underwear that didnít fit right.
    OK, but WHY didn't they fit right, and how do you know if it's really a good fit? Loose waistband, elastic around thighs too tight, no ball room? Do you think they should be fitted by a professional? What's going on?

    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Anyone not wearing boxer briefs now-a-days? Do they even still make tighty whiteys?
    They have to, it's the most iconic underwear. Probably 5-6 years ago I jokingly bought a pair to tie-dye.

    As for golf, I have been hit in the head with a golf club. I was a kid and my twin brother and I found some golf clubs and practice balls in the garage (little wiffle ball type things). We were hitting them in the yard. I was standing behind my brother when he took some big ass backswing and clobbered my noggin. Lots of blood, a fractured skull, and a concussion were all had in good merriment. Apparently you could see my skull but nobody ever showed me. Plus we got stopped by some long train on the way to the hospital.
    dang

  106. #106
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    I saw a rider yesterday wearing a football helmet.

    ...and Iím pretty certain he wasnít going to football practice.

    I would have taken a photo but I thought that might be a bit rude since it would have been pretty obvious that I was taking a picture of the guy on a bike wearing a football helmet. Live and let live

  107. #107
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    I wear red speedo

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Someone sliced their drive directly into my forehead from 200 yards out once.
    That's an amazing combination of power and accuracy.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    When I first started riding nobody wore helmets and not too many of us died.
    LOL. And doctors used to recommend the best cigarettes to smoke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Anyone not wearing boxer briefs now-a-days? Do they even still make tighty whiteys?
    What is the benefit? More area to get sweaty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Ha ha ha. Because I'm a bit older, I'm not up with the current trend setters lingo, so I've no idea what you're actually talking about. But, seeing that you included that photo in your quote, I'll assume it's something to do with that bike. Which, isn't actually my bike. It's actually one I borrowed, while on holidays in another country, to go check out some trails in the hills behind our accommodation. So no, I didn't try & break it, or ride it particularly aggressively. If you care to look a little bit closer, you'll also see the removable kiddie trailer hitch, or whatever it is still mounted to the frame. Oh the shame. How could a macho, red blooded MTB cool dude lower themselves to that level? Lol. I still had fun
    Nice bit of selective editing by the way. And assumptions too. Good work.
    Personally, I couldn't care less what you wear when riding. You could ride in a 2 piece bikini for all I care. But, when you start telling us all about how that little blob of Polystyrene is somehow helpful as you ride around banging your head on trees & things, don't be surprised if someone makes a comment in regards to how ludicrous that mind set is.
    I've nothing against bike helmets. In winter. They're quite good at keeping your head warm. But come spring/summer/autumn, it's baseball cap all the way
    Backed up with scientific study, or just personal opinion?

    There is an awful lot of opinion touted as fact these days. In the news, in forums, in the political arena. If it is proved fact, it may help people to believe your argument if you share the studies.

    Foe example, someone FOR helmets might post along the lines of:

    The safety benefits seem to be more pronounced for children. Tests on childrenís bicycle helmets show helmets offer up to 87% reduction in the acceleration experienced by the skull during an impact. They can also help the skull resist forces up to 470 pounds in a crush accident.
    According to a US study helmets cut the risks of severe traumatic brain injury by half, when riders suffer a brain injury. The report, in the American Journal of Surgery, also concluded that riders with helmets were 44% less likely to die from their injury. Also, they were 31% less likely to break facial bones.

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    I could jump in here, but I'll let natural selection sort this out. if you're dumb enough to ride trails without a helmet, that kind of ignorance will catch up with you eventually.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Ha ha ha. Because I'm a bit older, I'm not up with the current trend setters lingo, so I've no idea what you're actually talking about. But, seeing that you included that photo in your quote, I'll assume it's something to do with that bike. Which, isn't actually my bike. It's actually one I borrowed, while on holidays in another country, to go check out some trails in the hills behind our accommodation. So no, I didn't try & break it, or ride it particularly aggressively. If you care to look a little bit closer, you'll also see the removable kiddie trailer hitch, or whatever it is still mounted to the frame. Oh the shame. How could a macho, red blooded MTB cool dude lower themselves to that level? Lol. I still had fun
    Nice bit of selective editing by the way. And assumptions too. Good work.
    Personally, I couldn't care less what you wear when riding. You could ride in a 2 piece bikini for all I care. But, when you start telling us all about how that little blob of Polystyrene is somehow helpful as you ride around banging your head on trees & things, don't be surprised if someone makes a comment in regards to how ludicrous that mind set is.
    I've nothing against bike helmets. In winter. They're quite good at keeping your head warm. But come spring/summer/autumn, it's baseball cap all the way
    No assumptions at all, a guy that rides around in thong sandals (with socks no less) probably isn't the best dude to take advice from on a mountain bike forum. For your style of riding it's probably fine.

    Not saying that everyone needs a helmet all the time, but suggesting that they offer no protection is just plain ignorance on your part.
    '18 Ithaqua, '16 Bucksaw, '14 Mukluk, '07 Enduro

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I could jump in here, but I'll let natural selection sort this out. if you're dumb enough to ride trails without a helmet, that kind of ignorance will catch up with you eventually.
    Like a lot of others, Iíve been seeing more and more helmetless beginners. Saw a family of 5 today, the only one wearing a helmet was the teen kid who could actually ride. Mom dad and the other kids, all pre teen, no helmets.It was All I could do to not say something, but I minded my own business.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I could jump in here, but I'll let natural selection sort this out. if you're dumb enough to ride trails without a helmet, that kind of ignorance will catch up with you eventually.
    Yeah. Just like driving a car. Riding a motorcycle. Or horse. Eating fatty food. Drinking beer. Everything has the potential to get you in the end. Best you wrap yourself in cotton wool, and sit at home on your sofa. Where a heart attack will probably get you in the end.
    The amount of faith & trust people place in that little blob of polystyrene is truly mind boggling Like I wrote, wear what you want.
    The thing that I find interesting, is that itís the pro helmet evangelists that canít help themselves, wanting to make laws and rules to satisfy their own needs for security, & force them onto everyone. The rest of us are happy to simply leave it up to individual choice. Why do you think that is? Going by the tone in this, & basically every other thread covering this subject matter, itís just an opportunity to call anyone who doesnít agree with you, stupid, dumb, etc etc etc. Enlightening.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Yeah. Just like driving a car. Riding a motorcycle. Or horse. Eating fatty food. Drinking beer. Everything has the potential to get you in the end. Best you wrap yourself in cotton wool, and sit at home on your sofa. Where a heart attack will probably get you in the end.


    I always wear a helmet while eating fatty foods and drinking beer and advise anyone near me to do the same.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I always wear a helmet while eating fatty foods and drinking beer and advise anyone near me to do the same.
    He he he. Where's the like button?

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    You guys could argue about a pair of underwear that didnít fit right.
    Whatta they gonna do when they realize the tampon they installed had no string?
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
    Doctor recommended...

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Yeah. Just like driving a car. Riding a motorcycle. Or horse. Eating fatty food. Drinking beer. Everything has the potential to get you in the end. Best you wrap yourself in cotton wool, and sit at home on your sofa. Where a heart attack will probably get you in the end.
    The amount of faith & trust people place in that little blob of polystyrene is truly mind boggling Like I wrote, wear what you want.
    The thing that I find interesting, is that itís the pro helmet evangelists that canít help themselves, wanting to make laws and rules to satisfy their own needs for security, & force them onto everyone. The rest of us are happy to simply leave it up to individual choice. Why do you think that is? Going by the tone in this, & basically every other thread covering this subject matter, itís just an opportunity to call anyone who doesnít agree with you, stupid, dumb, etc etc etc. Enlightening.
    I really donít care how stupid someone is.
    I just hate to see them pass it on to their kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downcountry View Post
    I really donít care how stupid someone is.
    I just hate to see them pass it on to their kids.
    Bit of a logic fail there. By your own reasoning, one should not make it to an age capable of reproduction & child raising, if you choose not to wear a polystyrene security blanket on your head.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Bit of a logic fail there. By your own reasoning, one should not make it to an age capable of reproduction & child raising, if you choose not to wear a polystyrene security blanket on your head.
    Why do you think that? Did he say there was a 100% chance? The only failure is your reading.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  122. #122
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    Something to consider. Is your security blanket giving you a false sense of security?
    https://crag.asn.au/why-did-the-inju...he-helmet-law/

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Something to consider. Is your security blanket giving you a false sense of security?
    https://crag.asn.au/why-did-the-inju...he-helmet-law/
    So if you wear no helmet, you ride a flat path at slow speed with no obstacles present.

    If you wear a helmet, you ride a mountain bike on mountain bike trails.

    Ergo, helmets cause injury.

    Quite the logic fail, right there.


    Where is the scientific study that shows a head that is smacked with a helmet on sustains more impact than one without the helmet on, and is more likely to be injured?
    Maybe it's with the study that shows guns sneak out of the gun safe at night and cause mayhem...

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    So if you wear no helmet, you ride a flat path at slow speed with no obstacles present.

    If you wear a helmet, you ride a mountain bike on mountain bike trails.

    Ergo, helmets cause injury.

    Quite the logic fail, right there.


    Where is the scientific study that shows a head that is smacked with a helmet on sustains more impact than one without the helmet on, and is more likely to be injured?
    Maybe it's with the study that shows guns sneak out of the gun safe at night and cause mayhem...
    Here ya go. Taken from that linked article. And I quote
    "Helmets can increase brain injury, according to research done in Sweden:

    ďThe non-shell helmet did in all trials grab the asphalt surface, which rotated the head together with
    the helmet. The consequences were in addition to the rotating of the head, a heavily bent and compressed neck, transmitted on through the whole test dummy body after the impact. Ö

    This gives an average angular acceleration of 20800 rad/s≤ for rotating the head from 0 to 0.26 rad during the 5 ms. LŲwenhielm proposes 4500 rad/s≤ to be the maximum angular acceleration that can be tolerated for a limited time periodĒ

    Soft-shell helmets amplified rotational acceleration to four times higher than the tolerable maximum.

    On impact, the larger head volume amplifies rotational acceleration. A 3cm increase in helmet circumference increases rotational acceleration by 150%:

    ďthe 3000rad/s≤ to 8500rad/s≤ measured during abrasive and projection oblique tests with size 54cm (E) helmeted headforms. However, for the most severe cases using a size 57cm (J) headform, rotational acceleration was typically greater than 10,000rad/s≤ and increased to levels of 20,000rad/s≤, a level at which a 35% Ė 50% risk of serious AIS3+ injuries is anticipated.Ē

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Here ya go. Taken from that linked article. And I quote
    "Helmets can increase brain injury, according to research done in Sweden:

    ďThe non-shell helmet did in all trials grab the asphalt surface, which rotated the head together with
    the helmet. The consequences were in addition to the rotating of the head, a heavily bent and compressed neck, transmitted on through the whole test dummy body after the impact. Ö

    This gives an average angular acceleration of 20800 rad/s≤ for rotating the head from 0 to 0.26 rad during the 5 ms. LŲwenhielm proposes 4500 rad/s≤ to be the maximum angular acceleration that can be tolerated for a limited time periodĒ

    Soft-shell helmets amplified rotational acceleration to four times higher than the tolerable maximum.

    On impact, the larger head volume amplifies rotational acceleration. A 3cm increase in helmet circumference increases rotational acceleration by 150%:

    ďthe 3000rad/s≤ to 8500rad/s≤ measured during abrasive and projection oblique tests with size 54cm (E) helmeted headforms. However, for the most severe cases using a size 57cm (J) headform, rotational acceleration was typically greater than 10,000rad/s≤ and increased to levels of 20,000rad/s≤, a level at which a 35% Ė 50% risk of serious AIS3+ injuries is anticipated.Ē
    Thatís all good but Iíll take my chances with a helmet on, than you very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  126. #126
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    Here is the summary from that article:
    1.The injury rate has tripled since the helmet law. This is most likely due to:
    safety in numbers: the risk of accidents increased as there were fewer cyclists.
    2. risk compensation: helmeted cyclists lured into a false sense of safety, taking more risks.
    3.Degrading the helmet standard to include polystyrene ďhelmetsĒ that provide little protection.
    4.The safer cyclists stopped cycling.
    Ö
    This is about an overall policy,
    not about whether a properly designed and properly worn helmet CAN help protect the head.

  127. #127
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    While there may be some truth in the over confidence theory, I think most of us ride fully aware we are doing so with the risk of crashing way beyond the capability of our safety equipment to protect us from harm. But we wear the safety gear to reduce the damage done when we do crash. Anyone who really mountain bikes is aware that they will crash at some point, though you can ride less aggressively to reduce the odds and the amount of harm.

    And "dork dish" isn't "current trend setters lingo"; the term has probably been around 25+ years.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Bit of a logic fail there. By your own reasoning, one should not make it to an age capable of reproduction & child raising, if you choose not to wear a polystyrene security blanket on your head.
    speedy, have you ever walked thru a grocery store and wondered why they pack eggs separated in styrofoam boxes, and, say, broccoli florets all together in plastic bags?
    speedy, which most resembles your head
    (In construction, not looks)
    an egg or a broccoli floret?

  129. #129
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    So this is turning into a bit of a pissing match.

    There's lots of good studies showing that plastic skinned helmets do in fact reduce severity of head injuries.

    If an adult doesn't want to wear a helmet, just say "I'm not wearing a helmet cuz I don't want to, despite the added risk." It's your skull, we all decide what risks to take. Kind of like not wearing a seat belt or smoking or whatever.

    Kids should have to wait until they're 18 to decide not to wear a helmet. I like kids.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  130. #130
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    I'd wear the Hovding if it was repackable with replaceable cartridges. Potassium perchlorate isn't exactly high technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    So this is turning into a bit of a pissing match.

    There's lots of good studies showing that plastic skinned helmets do in fact reduce severity of head injuries.

    If an adult doesn't want to wear a helmet, just say "I'm not wearing a helmet cuz I don't want to, despite the added risk." It's your skull, we all decide what risks to take. Kind of like not wearing a seat belt or smoking or whatever.

    Kids should have to wait until they're 18 to decide not to wear a helmet. I like kids.
    Some of us call it "free agency", the ability to make the choice for ourselves without some dictator making it for us. Gonna ride my Sergeant in the rain today, and I choose to use my ProtTec Classic, while John Q Public might choose another variety or none at all. C'est la vie!
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  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    So this is turning into a bit of a pissing match.

    There's lots of good studies showing that plastic skinned helmets do in fact reduce severity of head injuries.

    If an adult doesn't want to wear a helmet, just say "I'm not wearing a helmet cuz I don't want to, despite the added risk." It's your skull, we all decide what risks to take. Kind of like not wearing a seat belt or smoking or whatever.

    Kids should have to wait until they're 18 to decide not to wear a helmet. I like kids.
    Some ideas deserve as much ridicule as possible, and (paraphrasing here),
    ďIím just as safe wearing a ball cap while
    riding as I am wearing a helmet ď is one of them.
    I see so much pure bs here (and other places), and granted, it is usually just harmless banter about mostly subjective topics. But we know there are lots of beginners and young folks coming here for advice, and I just hate to see bad information available to them.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by downcountry View Post
    .... But we know there are lots of beginners and young folks coming here for advice, and I just hate to see bad information available to them.
    Agree 100%. The facts supporting the safety of helmets should be made clear and people should be encouraged to use them, and for kids and sponsored group rides, required to use them. My post was aimed at those who choose not to wear them who argue, against the evidence, that it's just as safe or that the added safety is insignificant. It's not.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

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    I believe in the safety benefits of helmets, but I really don't GAF about whether or not strangers wear them, and I sure as hell would never join the helmet Karen patrol. That would feel about the same to me as standing in the snack aisle at the grocery store and giving people lectures about what's going in their cart. Takes a special type.
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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Here ya go. Taken from that linked article. And I quote
    "Helmets can increase brain injury, according to research done in Sweden:

    ďThe non-shell helmet did in all trials grab the asphalt surface, which rotated the head together with
    the helmet. The consequences were in addition to the rotating of the head, a heavily bent and compressed neck, transmitted on through the whole test dummy body after the impact. Ö

    This gives an average angular acceleration of 20800 rad/s≤ for rotating the head from 0 to 0.26 rad during the 5 ms. LŲwenhielm proposes 4500 rad/s≤ to be the maximum angular acceleration that can be tolerated for a limited time periodĒ

    Soft-shell helmets amplified rotational acceleration to four times higher than the tolerable maximum.

    On impact, the larger head volume amplifies rotational acceleration. A 3cm increase in helmet circumference increases rotational acceleration by 150%:

    ďthe 3000rad/s≤ to 8500rad/s≤ measured during abrasive and projection oblique tests with size 54cm (E) helmeted headforms. However, for the most severe cases using a size 57cm (J) headform, rotational acceleration was typically greater than 10,000rad/s≤ and increased to levels of 20,000rad/s≤, a level at which a 35% Ė 50% risk of serious AIS3+ injuries is anticipated.Ē
    Can you even buy a non shelled helmet? They stopped making those for a reason. Really a red herring there.
    . . . . . . . .

  136. #136
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  137. #137
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    35 years ago my Ex: "Why would you need a helmet?"

    My answer: "Wouldn't need one if I had no brains!"
    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by downcountry View Post
    Some ideas deserve as much ridicule as possible
    And right there, your credibility ends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhB HJ View Post
    35 years ago my Ex: "Why would you need a helmet?"

    My answer: "Wouldn't need one if I had no brains!"
    And thatís the most intelligent response you can come up with?

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    I saw a couple of teenage kids who don't bother wear helmets, armor jumping of 10 ft drops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    Can you even buy a non shelled helmet? They stopped making those for a reason. Really a red herring there.
    Yes. Well, if you count the half mm/20 thou thick (Guesstimate -havenít actually measured properly) blow moulded plastic shelled helmets that make up the vast majority of bicycle helmets available.
    The article is making the comparison between those, & composite shelled motorcycle helmets, or older, thicker shelled (around a couple of mm thick) helmets. Which is still absolutely relevant.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Thatís all good but Iíll take my chances with a helmet on, than you very much.
    And thatís fine. Iím truly 100% happy for you. Thatís pretty much my point. Wear what youíre comfortable, and happy with.
    I am NOT telling riders to NOT wear a helmet. Far from it. In some circumstances, a bicycle helmet may prevent more severe injuries. In 50+ years, I just havenít come across that circumstance yet. And that includes being hospitalised twice, once just over a year back, after being hit by a bull bar equipped 4wd on the way to the trails(riding), breaking my hip & requiring a various assortment of titanium screws, bolts & plates to be inserted, & another time when I was 4 years old, disobeyed my Dad, snuck out of the house, and attempted to bomb the biggest hill in my area on my little 12 inch wheeled bike. Your mileage may vary.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I believe in the safety benefits of helmets, but I really don't GAF about whether or not strangers wear them, and I sure as hell would never join the helmet Karen patrol. That would feel about the same to me as standing in the snack aisle at the grocery store and giving people lectures about what's going in their cart. Takes a special type.

    This!!! Thank you Slapheadmofo... My God, the Bicycle Owners Association is worse than a Home Owners Association in here...
    These dictators need to get over their perceived power struggle and live their lives with their noses out of other people's butt cracks...

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to slapheadmofo again. I tried!!


    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    And thatís fine. Iím truly 100% happy for you. Thatís pretty much my point. Wear what youíre comfortable, and happy with.
    I am NOT telling riders to NOT wear a helmet. Far from it. In some circumstances, a bicycle helmet may prevent more severe injuries. In 50+ years, I just havenít come across that circumstance yet. And that includes being hospitalised twice, once just over a year back, after being hit by a bull bar equipped 4wd on the way to the trails(riding), breaking my hip & requiring a various assortment of titanium screws, bolts & plates to be inserted, & another time when I was 4 years old, disobeyed my Dad, snuck out of the house, and attempted to bomb the biggest hill in my area on my little 12 inch wheeled bike. Your mileage may vary.
    Wut? You have more Ti components than my bike?? Looks like I gotta go shopping!
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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Yes. Well, if you count the half mm/20 thou thick (Guesstimate -havenít actually measured properly) blow moulded plastic shelled helmets that make up the vast majority of bicycle helmets available.
    The article is making the comparison between those, & composite shelled motorcycle helmets, or older, thicker shelled (around a couple of mm thick) helmets. Which is still absolutely relevant.
    No they are talking about unshelled helmets, which used to be common in the 80's early nineties. The whole purpose of that shell is to keep the foam from snagging. It's sole function is a slip surface.
    . . . . . . . .

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Wut? You have more Ti components than my bike?? Looks like I gotta go shopping!
    I can strongly, very strongly advise, keeping Titanium components on your bike. Rather than body.
    Hereís a shot of me testing out those Ti components on my MTB, a few weeks after surgery, complete with crutches strapped to my back. Iím sitting on my bike, my portly frame & camera angle is just hiding it
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-d60e82f4-f1e1-47a1-9976-67cb26243bd4.jpg  


  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    No they are talking about unshelled helmets, which used to be common in the 80's early nineties. The whole purpose of that shell is to keep the foam from snagging. It's sole function is a slip surface.
    I don't think so. Here's a year or two old helmet I had laying around. Curiosity got the better of me, I pulled out the micrometer, & ran it over that "hard shell" Some spots are thinner than this. Can you read a micrometer? That's 0.43mm thick, or around 17 thousandths of an inch. I was a bit generous with my first guestimate. If you honestly believe that's not going to disintegrate/self destruct at the very thought of contact with a hard, sharp or pointed, abrasive or otherwise surface such as a rock or gravel/dirt, then I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in. Once again, I'm NOT telling people NOT to wear a helmet, if that's what makes you comfortable.
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-shell-thick.jpg

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    Perhaps instead of wearing helmets they are utilizing this clever contraption

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1128895217479387

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Except the cost for emergency services, rescue services, life insurance, lawsuits against the landowner for "trail features" and other "unsafe conditions", hospital bills that get passed on to society, lack of ability to support the family, and so on...

    If the person did it on their own private island, then sure, it wouldn't affect anyone.

    If they were at least taking some responsibility for their actions, they'd be carrying around a DNR card and let everyone in their group know about it, as well as make sure it's easily retrievable. Set up trust funds for their kids, you know, actually take responsibility for the decision, rather than passing the crap on to everyone else that has to deal with it when they die or go comatose.

    No respect for these people that claim to be making "their own decisions" that are just passing the crap on to those of us in society that are the ones that have to deal with the fallout.
    So then advocate to get rid of these rules that allow people to transfer costs to others and then you can start respecting their right to live as they please.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    I don't think so. Here's a year or two old helmet I had laying around. Curiosity got the better of me, I pulled out the micrometer, & ran it over that "hard shell" Some spots are thinner than this. Can you read a micrometer? That's 0.43mm thick, or around 17 thousandths of an inch. I was a bit generous with my first guestimate. If you honestly believe that's not going to disintegrate/self destruct at the very thought of contact with a hard, sharp or pointed, abrasive or otherwise surface such as a rock or gravel/dirt, then I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in. Once again, I'm NOT telling people NOT to wear a helmet, if that's what makes you comfortable.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	shell thick.jpg 
Views:	18 
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ID:	1339601
    The hard shell isn't impact protection, it's a sliding surface. It doesn't need to be thick, and I've tested mine a few times in the past few years and can attest to the fact that it works just fine. I've knocked my knoggin on rocks, trees and slid down sandstone, that "thin plastic layer" does exactly what it's supposed to do. To be fair, I'm likely riding much faster and more aggressively than you are. . . . . I've put them to the test.
    . . . . . . . .

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    To be fair, I'm likely riding much faster and more aggressively than you are. . . . . I've put them to the test.
    Yeah, but my package is likely bigger, & my wife prettier. See how that works?

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Yeah, but my package is likely bigger, & my wife prettier. See how that works?
    Lol. Weíve seen your photo.


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  152. #152
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    Scatterbrained and Speedy Gonzalez outhtta get a damn room!
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  153. #153
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    It's safer to not wear a seat belt in a car. Known fact.
    My brother's friend's mother's cousin's husband was in a car accident and would have survived if she hadn't been trapped by the seatbelt.
    True story.


    Oh, and I'm on the trail today. Here comes yupster dad and two teens on $7K worth of bikes. Dad has helmet on. Son has no helmet on and airpods in ears. Daughter has no helmet on and some nice dangly jewelry.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I recommend helmets to people at our pumptrack regularly, but have no interest in joining the helmet police.
    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I believe in the safety benefits of helmets, but I really don't GAF about whether or not strangers wear them, and I sure as hell would never join the helmet Karen patrol. That would feel about the same to me as standing in the snack aisle at the grocery store and giving people lectures about what's going in their cart. Takes a special type.
    Outside of group rides, it seems you are the only one who has posted that has "recommended" helmets to strangers in person.
    Last edited by chazpat; 06-07-2020 at 05:41 AM.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Scatterbrained and Speedy Gonzalez outhtta get a damn room!
    Hmmm. . . . .
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-notell.jpg
    . . . . . . . .

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    And thatís fine. Iím truly 100% happy for you. Thatís pretty much my point. Wear what youíre comfortable, and happy with.
    I am NOT telling riders to NOT wear a helmet. Far from it. In some circumstances, a bicycle helmet may prevent more severe injuries. In 50+ years, I just havenít come across that circumstance yet. And that includes being hospitalised twice, once just over a year back, after being hit by a bull bar equipped 4wd on the way to the trails(riding), breaking my hip & requiring a various assortment of titanium screws, bolts & plates to be inserted, & another time when I was 4 years old, disobeyed my Dad, snuck out of the house, and attempted to bomb the biggest hill in my area on my little 12 inch wheeled bike. Your mileage may vary.
    Youíre telling riders that helmets are useless
    because you havenít needed one for fifty years. Not exactly a credible argument, there, handsome.
    I havenít needed any of the insurance I carry
    for around 30 years now. I guess I should use your logic and just drop all of it.
    Smh.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by downcountry View Post
    Youíre telling riders that helmets are useless
    because you havenít needed one for fifty years. Not exactly a credible argument, there, handsome.
    I havenít needed any of the insurance I carry
    for around 30 years now. I guess I should use your logic and just drop all of it.
    Smh.
    Right. And how'd that work out for Burt Reynolds in Deliverance? Not as bad as Ned Beatty or their buddy Drew who got shot/drowned, but still not good.

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  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by downcountry View Post
    Youíre telling riders that helmets are useless
    because you havenít needed one for fifty years. Not exactly a credible argument, there, handsome.
    I havenít needed any of the insurance I carry
    for around 30 years now. I guess I should use your logic and just drop all of it.
    Smh.
    Lol lol lol. You really don't get it do you? You're completely missing the point. You go do whatever you want or need to, use whatever security blanket or pacifier you like, to help you feel "safe" & "secure" Just don't tell me what I must be wearing, or doing, to feel the same way. Pretty simple huh? Yet it's beyond you, & the safety Nazis, to manage something so simple. Take your outrage elsewhere, & stop projecting your insecurities on everyone else.

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Outside of group rides, it seems you are the only one who has posted that has "recommended" helmets to strangers in person.
    So apparently I'm the only one who actually puts his money where his mouth is, huh?
    Not surprising.

    I created and maintain this pumptrack; it's 'my turf'.
    If I wanted to, I actually could make helmets a requirement, but instead I just pass on a casual recommendation here and there, based on my experience.

    Given the power, I would imagine the internet helmet police types would be getting all frothy and chasing people out left and right.
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  160. #160
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    From my experience, the way to make trails 100% safe and render helmets obsolete is to cut away any tree near the trail.

    What would be neat is a bar-end sensor that could detect an imminent tree impact and actuate a hinge near the middle of the bar that let the bar flop back during impact, then immediately firm up again. This would have saved me a few times lol.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Lol lol lol. You really don't get it do you? You're completely missing the point. You go do whatever you want or need to, use whatever security blanket or pacifier you like, to help you feel "safe" & "secure" Just don't tell me what I must be wearing, or doing, to feel the same way. Pretty simple huh? Yet it's beyond you, & the safety Nazis, to manage something so simple. Take your outrage elsewhere, & stop projecting your insecurities on everyone else.
    I understand you getting annoyed at people giving you a hard time. Like I posted earlier, it's your right to not wear a helmet. But please don't liken a helmet to a security blanket or pacifier. That insinuates they are ineffective and only used by fools. Helmets are indeed effective and reduce severity of head injuries, as established by numerous studies. I support your right to make your own choice, but not to deride the evidence.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Lol lol lol. You really don't get it do you? You're completely missing the point. You go do whatever you want or need to, use whatever security blanket or pacifier you like, to help you feel "safe" & "secure" Just don't tell me what I must be wearing, or doing, to feel the same way. Pretty simple huh? Yet it's beyond you, & the safety Nazis, to manage something so simple. Take your outrage elsewhere, & stop projecting your insecurities on everyone else.
    Let me guess, youíre a mask denier too, am I right? Nobody tells speedygz what to do!


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  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    So apparently I'm the only one who actually puts his money where his mouth is, huh?
    Not surprising.

    I created and maintain this pumptrack; it's 'my turf'.
    If I wanted to, I actually could make helmets a requirement, but instead I just pass on a casual recommendation here and there, based on my experience.

    Given the power, I would imagine the internet helmet police types would be getting all frothy and chasing people out left and right.
    Several of the trail systems around me have signs stating that helmets are required. Being thankful to those who build and maintain trails and provide the land, I think it is proper to honor their requests. Another trail is in a NPS NRA. I don't think there are any signs. But what happened is, people ride casually along the wide, flat section along the river and then decide to give the mtb trail that branches off a try and get into more than they were expecting. I have told some of these people they really should be wearing a helmet and many have agreed.

    I also told a couple of guys who were riding in late as I was coming out, one of them was already having to push his bike around some log step-ups, that they really needed lights as it was getting dark. I got a smart aleck reply that they knew what they were doing. I was tempted to hang out and laugh at them when they came back out in the dark.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Outside of group rides, it seems you are the only one who has posted that has "recommended" helmets to strangers in person.
    A recommendation sure beats the hell out of someone shouting orders like they think others are subordinates.
    What I cannot believe is that people think their opinion is "Gospel" and "law of the land".

    There are comments of helmets being pacifiers, security blankets etc. While the stupid things are not in any way a guarantee and do have limited range of protection, they can be of benefit. One issue is finding one that actually fits the shape of a melon. When one does, it sure is more enticing to use.

    Helmet use is like saddle and tire pressure all in one however, more subjective yet!
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  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    Right. And how'd that work out for Burt Reynolds in Deliverance? Not as bad as Ned Beatty or their buddy Drew who got shot/drowned, but still not good.

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    Folks, trying to convince Speedy that science is correct and his/her opinions are incorrect is like stapling jello to a wall, herding cats, or getting a teenager to clean his room.

    Some people work backwards and create a world of false logic in order to support a belief, feeling, opinion that they hold very dear to themselves. There is often NOTHING that can be done to change their opinion, short of a literal smack in the head. Gary Busey and his brain-scrambling motorcycle accident are a good example of that literal smack in the head.

    Do yourselves a favor and save your virtual breath. Instead, think positive thoughts for him/her that a lesson won't be learned the hard way. And if one is, that it in no way affects society as he/she is wealthy enough to not need medical insurance, and also has no family that would be affected by a TBI.

  167. #167
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    My take on helmets is that they might not save you from a catastrophic accident where you case a double, rag doll down a rocky face before falling off a cliff to a road below where you are run over by a mid-aughts honda civic that is lowered with an intercooler mounted in place of the front bumper.

    However what if they could save you when your tire skitters on some loose gravel as you round the first corner of your bike trail and you fall to the ground, not able to get your hand out before your body slams into the ground at 5mph and your head bounces on the ground? What if it could save you when you bobble unclipping as you a round the corner and your buddy had decided to stop to pee and you slow up unclip right but fall left and you hit your head on a log along the trail? What if it could save you as you are poking along the trail, daydreaming at what a beautiful day it is, when out of your peripheral vision you see a squirrel fly across your path and your brain, in autonomous mode, tells your hand to grab a handful of brake and you grab too much and over the bars you go, and your brain being a brain never tells your hands to release so you land on your head and tumble over to you back?

    All easy and stupid things that have happened to many, many cyclists. All survivable without anything more than potential mild concussion with a helmet on. All potentially life altering without the helmet. You don't dress for the most improbably accident, just like we don't drive vehicles that are designed for the most improbable accident but we do dress for the most common kinds of accidents and a helmet is good insurance in those scenarios.

    Mandating helmets is stupid but so it not wearing one.
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  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardjohnson View Post

    Mandating helmets is stupid...
    Agree, except for kids. And anyone who sponsors a group ride has a right to require it.

    And while mandating may not work or be wise, educating and encouraging people to wear them is good and proper.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    Agree, except for kids.
    Now see, I don't agree with that. I do agree that it probably shouldn't be mandated, but I wouldn't then turn around and mandate it for just kids. All or nothing. Besides setting a terrible example, an adult without a helmet taking their kids out with helmets, if the adult becomes a vegetable, who is going to support that family, their college funds, take care of the kids, etc.? All or nothing here.
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  170. #170
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    Here's my proposal. If you ride your bike without a helmet, and suffer a catastrophic accident resulting in death, the following happens:

    1) No investigation by any authority, other than a simple rubber stamping for cause of death: Idiocy.
    2) No closure or alteration of the trail you were riding.
    3) No public funding (SAR, etc.) shall be used to remove your coyote-chewed, vulture-picked corpse from the side of the mountain.

    I'm mostly kidding, I guess. But in addition to yourself, there are a lot of other people you inconvenience when you ride without a helmet, and then die. Stop doing it.
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  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Now see, I don't agree with that. I do agree that it probably shouldn't be mandated, but I wouldn't then turn around and mandate it for just kids. All or nothing. Besides setting a terrible example, an adult without a helmet taking their kids out with helmets, if the adult becomes a vegetable, who is going to support that family, their college funds, take care of the kids, etc.? All or nothing here.
    This!!

    Had the conversation with my neighbor just the other day. She insists her grandson wear a helmet but then get on her bike without one, I pointed out that she was practicing hypocrisy and that would lead to difficulty in enforcing a "family helmet law" since she was not leading by example. She promptly stole her grandson's Protec Ace and took a spin. Now I see her rolling round the neighborhood sportin that helmet! At least she is not learning disabled! All I did was point out that she was not leading by example and would be more successful by doing so. Recommendation goes further than dictation any day of the year...
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  172. #172
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    Can we all just refer to the "wave of bike newbs with no helmets" as the wave of mutilation? I mean the end result might be the same as the song.

    dang

  173. #173
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    So here is my story that convinced me to wear a helmet. In 1989 I was riding in a hard downpour, tried to bunny hop a log at speed and endoed when I did not clear my back wheel. I skidded along the trial upside down on the crown of my head with hands still on the bars and feet in the toe clips. Had there been a rock on that section of trail I would have been scalped.

    Since then my helmets have taken many hits which have reduced the severity of impacts, but from my perspective also saved me from innumerable stitches. It is not all about impact.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Here's my proposal. If you ride your bike without a helmet, and suffer a catastrophic accident resulting in death, the following happens:

    1) No investigation by any authority, other than a simple rubber stamping for cause of death: Idiocy.
    2) No closure or alteration of the trail you were riding.
    3) No public funding (SAR, etc.) shall be used to remove your coyote-chewed, vulture-picked corpse from the side of the mountain.

    I'm mostly kidding, I guess. But in addition to yourself, there are a lot of other people you inconvenience when you ride without a helmet, and then die. Stop doing it.
    Here's a tip. Your outrage would be far better directed towards much more pressing issues, with far better return on investment. Such as the rate of obesity in your country. Smoking. Alcohol consumption. The list goes on. The miniscule number of people injured more severely due to not wearing a helmet is not worth even thinking about, let alone getting your panties all bunched up, because of the odd person who can think for themselves, & decide if the risk is significant enough to warrant wearing a sweat bucket.

  175. #175
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    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying

    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Here's a tip. Your outrage would be far better directed towards much more pressing issues, with far better return on investment. Such as the rate of obesity in your country. Smoking. Alcohol consumption. The list goes on. The miniscule number of people injured more severely due to not wearing a helmet is not worth even thinking about, let alone getting your panties all bunched up, because of the odd person who can think for themselves, & decide if the risk is significant enough to warrant wearing a sweat bucket.
    Outrage? I donít give a shit about idiots who donít wear helmets. Iím not going to bother them or approach them. Iím certainly not going to advocate for mandatory helmets.

    Iíll only care if inconvenienced by the pack of coyotes fighting over your corpse when I come across it during a night ride. I suppose Iíd have to call that in. The law and all that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Here's a tip. Your outrage would be far better directed towards much more pressing issues, with far better return on investment. Such as the rate of obesity in your country. Smoking. Alcohol consumption. The list goes on. The miniscule number of people injured more severely due to not wearing a helmet is not worth even thinking about, let alone getting your panties all bunched up, because of the odd person who can think for themselves, & decide if the risk is significant enough to warrant wearing a sweat bucket.
    What makes you think those are pressing issues?
    Doctors have recommended the best cigarettes. Alcohol for drinking is indeed a solution. Obesity? Fake science.
    Just like the fake science that shows helmets reduce the force of impact on a person's head

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    Here's a tip. Your outrage would be far better directed towards much more pressing issues, with far better return on investment. Such as the rate of obesity in your country. Smoking. Alcohol consumption. The list goes on. The miniscule number of people injured more severely due to not wearing a helmet is not worth even thinking about, let alone getting your panties all bunched up, because of the odd person who can think for themselves, & decide if the risk is significant enough to warrant wearing a sweat bucket.
    Those are not pressing issues for my trail access and usage.
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  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Those are not pressing issues for my trail access and usage.
    But they are, for the outraged, who are crying about the waste of resources, due to the overwhelming numbers of mountain bike riders having to be rescued, and funded for the remainder of their miserable lives on the public purse.

  179. #179
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    Is SpeedyGZ = Picard?

    Okay, SpeedyGZ; point taken (I think): risk avoidance in the context one's abilities is more important than a helmet (?).

    Interestingly, I watched a TED something or other today titled "Why helmets don't prevent concussions - and what might."

    Given the presenter's work in progress "solution" (an airbag deploying from a "helmet"), I presume the rationale is that helmets don't provide enough of a delay in deceleration.

    I'm not sure I understand what I've just written, but I hope somebody else might.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post

    Iíll only care if inconvenienced by the pack of coyotes fighting over your corpse when I come across it during a night ride. I suppose Iíd have to call that in. The law and all that.


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    Interesting. How do you ration your compassion, when you see an overweight person who had had an unfortunate incident? What if they have a packet of ciggies in their pocket as well? How does that work exactly? They're just an obvious drain on the system.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty13 View Post
    Is SpeedyGZ = Picard?
    What's a Picard? Do I look like a Picard? My photo is posted a few posts down the page, if that's helpful for identification purposes. Yeah, I look a bit chubby there, but I'm going to blame the ultrawide lens I used in that shot. It makes me feel better about myself that way. Lol.

    Anyway, once again, I'll repeat myself. Again. I'm NOT telling people NOT to wear a helmet. I'll have a look through my old photos, and see if I've still got a photo kicking around, of a motorcycle helmet I was wearing, in an accident. Pretty benign, around 40 mph/60 km/hr. Hell, I do that speed, and faster nearly every time I get on the bicycle. It was a full face composite helmet, Kevlar/Fibreglass. Any half intelligent person would take one look at it, and understand instantly, just how pathetic, useless and ineffective that little blob of polystyrene perched on top of their head actually is, and how misplaced their faith in it actually doing something useful, is. Wear whatever makes you happy.

  182. #182
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    At least not wearing a helmet is a conscious decision, presumably he knows what rush he's taking.

    But i see a lot of people that have the helmets really loose and tilted backwards, or wise, no straps.

    These helmets will not help much in a header.

    Kids too, you'd think the parents would know better

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  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Can we all just refer to the "wave of bike newbs with no helmets" as the wave of mutilation? I mean the end result might be the same as the song.

    Now THAT I can get behind.
    Doolittle was one of the greatest albums of the late 80s/early 90s.

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  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Now THAT I can get behind.
    Doolittle was one of the greatest albums of the late 80s/early 90s.

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    LOL I couldn't get this song out of my head and then I realized it fit pretty well into this thread given the title and theme of self-killin'.
    dang

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I wonder how effect helmets actually are? Or are they like knee pads, only really make a difference in a minor fall.
    IME, very. I've twice personally witnessed impacts where a helmet clearly prevented serious injury.
    1) watched a good friend stuff the front wheel in a crack on a granite slab and slide far enough to grind a quarter-sized hole through the shell of his Bell Super2. He walked away with only a scraped up elbow, and I was convinced to buy that same helmet.
    2) about 18 months later I got a smokin deal on a Giro Montaro MIPS, and 'retired' my Super, giving it to my father when he bought his Trek Roscoe. on his 3rd ride he OTBd into a gnarly rock pile and hit hard enough to literally crack the shell and split the EVA foam. The visor exploded into 3 pieces. He had a decent cut on his cheek, but otherwise was unharmed.





    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I don't wear a full face full time but probably could with the Stage and Proframe but someone could easily make the same argument about full faces vs the standard helmets we all wear. We'd all protest and say "we don't plan on hitting our face/jaw/cheek" or "it's not needed on a trail like this" but the amount of people that don't wear full faces in bike parks and on trails like Mount Wilson in LA always amazes me.
    I'd wear a ProFrame on green/blue trails all day if it was the 'culture'. I admit I bend to social pressure and ride advanced "trail" with only a helmet and gloves because that's what my social circle rides in. I've recently begun using knee pads for most of my rides, but I'd ride in more if it was 'cool'.
    The worst MTB crash I've ever had was riding fast on a double-track access rd between singletrack sections. I turned my head to call over my shoulder to my buddy, planning post-ride grub and which taco joint to head towards...and was suddenly on my face. My buddy ran me over and broke 2 ribs, in addition to having my bell rung pretty good.

    I actually kinda wish the culture of MTB was similar to off-road motorcycles. I grew up racing motocross and desert racing (like Baja 1000) and you'd literally get shamed if you didn't wear MX-specific boots, pants, jersey, a chest protector, and a "nice" helmet. These days that list usually includes some compression-style under-padding and a Leatt collar as well.
    It baffles me how many people I see posting pics of working on progression, sending a 5ft drop, or smashing down a janky, rock waterfall wearing an open-face helmet, cargo shorts and a t-shirt.
    Shiftin' jumps and huckin' gears

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    What's a Picard? Do I look like a Picard? My photo is posted a few posts down the page, if that's helpful for identification purposes. Yeah, I look a bit chubby there, but I'm going to blame the ultrawide lens I used in that shot. It makes me feel better about myself that way. Lol.

    Anyway, once again, I'll repeat myself. Again. I'm NOT telling people NOT to wear a helmet. I'll have a look through my old photos, and see if I've still got a photo kicking around, of a motorcycle helmet I was wearing, in an accident. Pretty benign, around 40 mph/60 km/hr. Hell, I do that speed, and faster nearly every time I get on the bicycle. It was a full face composite helmet, Kevlar/Fibreglass. Any half intelligent person would take one look at it, and understand instantly, just how pathetic, useless and ineffective that little blob of polystyrene perched on top of their head actually is, and how misplaced their faith in it actually doing something useful, is. Wear whatever makes you happy.
    You think your helmet did NOTHING for your melon in a 40MPH accident, and that all helmets in general have no safety value?

    Bahahahahahahahahahahahahah

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    What's a Picard? Do I look like a Picard? My photo is posted a few posts down the page, if that's helpful for identification purposes. Yeah, I look a bit chubby there, but I'm going to blame the ultrawide lens I used in that shot. It makes me feel better about myself that way. Lol.

    Anyway, once again, I'll repeat myself. Again. I'm NOT telling people NOT to wear a helmet. I'll have a look through my old photos, and see if I've still got a photo kicking around, of a motorcycle helmet I was wearing, in an accident. Pretty benign, around 40 mph/60 km/hr. Hell, I do that speed, and faster nearly every time I get on the bicycle. It was a full face composite helmet, Kevlar/Fibreglass. Any half intelligent person would take one look at it, and understand instantly, just how pathetic, useless and ineffective that little blob of polystyrene perched on top of their head actually is, and how misplaced their faith in it actually doing something useful, is. Wear whatever makes you happy.
    You routinely go 40+ mph on a bicycle?
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    You routinely go 40+ mph on a bicycle?
    I do, and I don't think its really that uncommon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I do, and I don't think its really that uncommon
    It very,very uncommon outside of long, paved downhills.

    I can't think of a single trail I've ridden in my life that would allow for anything even close to that kind of speed, regardless of skill level. Maybe some sections of the smoother access roads at ski areas, but as far as actual trails? No way.
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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    It very,very uncommon outside of long, paved downhills.

    I can't think of a single trail I've ridden in my life that would allow for anything even close to that kind of speed, regardless of skill level. Maybe some sections of the smoother access roads at ski areas, but as far as actual trails? No way.
    Dude said "on a bicycle"

    I ride to the trails and climb 800' before my tires ever touch dirt. That makes for a fast descent home. Daily

  191. #191
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    I hit 40 at Downieville, but that is once in almost 20 years of riding. Looking at speedy's pic, I would think it would be a REALLY steep hill...

    Helmet has saved my noggin more than once. Split one right down the middle launching off a planter during an urban ride right after I started riding.

    Thankfully not a lot of newbs without helmets in my area, a few, but our shops do a decent job of getting them in some basic safety gear here.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    It very,very uncommon outside of long, paved downhills.

    I can't think of a single trail I've ridden in my life that would allow for anything even close to that kind of speed, regardless of skill level. Maybe some sections of the smoother access roads at ski areas, but as far as actual trails? No way.
    Yeah, I was thinking downhill on pavement too. When I was about 10, I "borrowed" my older brother's Raleigh english racer. Three speeds and a speedometer. I rode to to top of a big hill on the two-lane that ran by our house and started down, pedaling madly thinking I could get it up to 50. About half way down I hit maybe thirty - the needle was bouncing back and forth - and lost my nerve as the front end started to shimmy. I managed to slow a bit before I ended up on the gravel shoulder and washed out.

    I was a mess when I got home and my mother was none too pleased as she tried to wash the gravel and sand out of my skin in a cold tub.

    Moral of the story: never put a speedometer on a kid's bike.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I do, and I don't think its really that uncommon
    Bullshit

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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Bullshit
    You think I'm trying to show off or something? I guess it is uncommon and most people never get close to 40mph. My bad.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbnj View Post
    You think your helmet did NOTHING for your melon in a 40MPH accident, and that all helmets in general have no safety value?

    Bahahahahahahahahahahahahah
    The lack of comprehension is exceedingly strong in this one.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    You routinely go 40+ mph on a bicycle?
    Just yesterday. Yes, it's a long steep, bumpy dirt hill. I've seen 70 on occasion
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-screenshot_2020-06-10-06-11-50-37.jpg

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedygz View Post
    What's a Picard? Do I look like a Picard? My photo is posted a few posts down the page, if that's helpful for identification purposes. Yeah, I look a bit chubby there, but I'm going to blame the ultrawide lens I used in that shot. It makes me feel better about myself that way. Lol.

    Anyway, once again, I'll repeat myself. Again. I'm NOT telling people NOT to wear a helmet. I'll have a look through my old photos, and see if I've still got a photo kicking around, of a motorcycle helmet I was wearing, in an accident. Pretty benign, around 40 mph/60 km/hr. Hell, I do that speed, and faster nearly every time I get on the bicycle. It was a full face composite helmet, Kevlar/Fibreglass. Any half intelligent person would take one look at it, and understand instantly, just how pathetic, useless and ineffective that little blob of polystyrene perched on top of their head actually is, and how misplaced their faith in it actually doing something useful, is. Wear whatever makes you happy.
    I think you've got more pressing issues than whether to wear a helmet or not.
    Just quietly.

    If you don't know who Picard is that's because you're too busy preaching when you should be reading, Just say'n.
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  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    Dude said "on a bicycle"
    And I said not a trail, which was correct.

    Derrrr....

    I hit 40 rolling down my road regularly too, but it's paved, so I don't really consider it mountain biking.
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  199. #199
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    Ha. That worked (screenshot posting) Here's another That's on my alloy 27.5 trail hard tail, 1x11, 30t chainring and 11-46. On my old 2x10 xc 29er, I've seen faster.
    Yeah, I'm the first to admit I'm old, fat, slow and broken. Still trying to recover from my broken, screwed, bolted and plated hip. Good excuse hey I paid for that ride for a good day after.
    The wave of bike newbs with no helmets is getting annoying-screenshot_2020-06-10-06-54-01-38.jpg

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    And I said not a trail, which was correct.

    Derrrr....

    I hit 40 rolling down my road regularly too, but it's paved, so I don't really consider it mountain biking.
    My bad dude, you're right

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