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  1. #1
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    vertical drops at the bottom of steep chutes

    --\
    ....\
    .....\
    ......|___

    So you are riding down a steep rock chute and there is a vertical drop at the bottom (or in the middle). I've taken an L in this situation enough to ask you all. Should one lean it back into a wheelie, mid-chute? Seems hard to initiate this motion since I am already leaning way back.

    I tried to create a little example above, preferably the landing would be on a nice angle.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
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    Mods, this needs to be moved into the 26+/27.5+/29+ Plus Bikes Forum. Oh, wait, I posted in the wrong thread, nevermind. OP - I'd probably bail out and try to roll out of it, but wheelie at the end makes sense.

  3. #3
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    How long is this section? How tall is the vertical part at the bottom?

  4. #4
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    I donít know OP. That situation is scary AF. Not sure what the correct technique would be, but I would try to control my speed, lean back, unweight the front wheel, pull up on the bar as hard as I can, not even think about the front brake and likely close my eyes and pray to God. Oh yeah, and elbows bent and pointed to the sides, and torso low and parallel with the top tube. Probably wrong, and I would likely eat shit but thatís all I can think of.

  5. #5
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    I would most likely end up going over the bars. Good luck.

  6. #6
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    You have two shitty options, option one is creep down real slow and try to ride it out by letting your front wheel track over the slight amount of slope that may exist, this has a high possibility of endo. The other option is to get close to the bottom and "pop" the front wheel up, which requires "winding up" to build some momentum and then pushing the front wheel out to try and land the bike level. It's still going to be a harsh transition and potential bottom-out, because that kind of slow-speed hit generally won't be handled well by the suspension, but at least that way you can spread it out and it gives you a bit better safety factor for your body.

    Either way, it's a shitty situation. I'm assuming it's not quite as drastic (90 degree) as shown in the picture, but still a rather flat transition. You gotta push the front wheel out.
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  7. #7
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    Make a youtube video of you trying it and let us watch
    Trek | Octane One | Transition

  8. #8
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    I nearly broke my nose with something like this. Very steep, unable to stop, tried to ride out the vertical step at the end, hit my nose on my stem!
    But rode it out, with blood pouring out everywhere.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    I nearly broke my nose with something like this. Very steep, unable to stop, tried to ride out the vertical step at the end, hit my nose on my stem!
    But rode it out, with blood pouring out everywhere.
    Damn cringeworthy, that's what that is.
    I wouldn't even get my hair cut except it's near the liquor store and it seems like my eyebrows need trimming now and then.

  10. #10
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    Last edited by Wacha Wacha Wacha; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:55 PM.

  11. #11
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    Wear your depends and right before the the vertical pull back as you compress down with your pedals keeping your butt behind the seat of course. Shortly after impact contact your manufacturer for any frame warranty issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by neeko b View Post
    Seems hard to initiate this motion since I am already leaning way back.
    You'll have to let off the brakes just before the end of the chute so you can shift your weight forward which will in turn give you enough leverage to pop the front wheel up manual style.

  13. #13
    Nat
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    Iíd have to see the actual trail section to know what Iíd try. Most tricky sections have more than one line down and depending on the size of the chute the best way down might be to jump the whole thing. Or walk.

    For example, if that entire chute is 4' tall then I'd approach it differently than if it were 40' tall.
    Last edited by Nat; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:05 AM.

  14. #14
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    You do the same exact thing as if you came up to that drop on its own, just as you exit the chute. It's tough to stay in position to do that but with practice it becomes second nature. The trails I ride that's a mandatory move. There's one spot where it's a steep as hell rock slab with a three or four foot huck to flat off the bottom... It takes a really hard yank on the bars as you come off the rock, but once you get it it's pretty easy actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I'd fix it. This would take the enjoyment of the chute out of my ride. Spend a Sunday on the trail with a shovel and build a transition. Someone (if not you) will eventually get hurt riding it.

    I would also love to see pictures of it - looks awesome (with a little work!).
    This is bullshit. Learn to ride it or walk it. If it isn't your trail then it isn't yours to decide what needs 'fixed.' Someone will eventually get hurt on every section of trail, that's no reason to dumb it down.

    Where I come from we sack up and take a few crashes so we can learn, not bust out the shovels and assume it's impossible. Funny how much you can do on a bike with that attitude, you'll never know apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    You'll have to let off the brakes just before the end of the chute so you can shift your weight forward which will in turn give you enough leverage to pop the front wheel up manual style.
    Good point! Didn't even think about the fact that I do that but you're totally right - no matter how steep it is and how much you want to death grip your brakes, you gotta let off for that last second to loft the front wheel (or both). Speed is your friend in this scenario, which is why it's tough because tip-toeing through a chute usually feels the safest.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    You'll have to let off the brakes just before the end of the chute so you can shift your weight forward which will in turn give you enough leverage to pop the front wheel up manual style.
    ^^^This sounds like how I'd do it.
    I was on something similar made by 4-wheelers. It ended at a double-track with a slight drainage on the side. The last ~2 bike lengths was really steep (and all torn up from 4-wheelers giving it the gas coming up it to get into the climb). We creeped into it, let off the brakes, and did our best to rotate the bike underneath us. On ours, you had to get your front wheel across the drainage or you were going to stick it like a lawn dart. And as steep as it was, it seemed easier to ride it than to try to get off and walk/climb down, plus, it was almost too steep to stop anyway. Of course, back up at the top, the trail had a perfectly benign appearance...
    It was very sketchy, and my buddy's front tire almost touched his downtube on the transition - almost like a really clumsy pogo with no style. Purely a survival move on his part. Mine was no better, just without the pogo.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I'd fix it. This would take the enjoyment of the chute out of my ride. Spend a Sunday on the trail with a shovel and build a transition. Someone (if not you) will eventually get hurt riding it.
    Thatís called sanitizing. THUMBS DOWN. Figure out how to ride it or walk.

  17. #17
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    This thread reminds me of a bunch of dudes sitting around a campfire after a days ride comparing stories on how they hit a certain section of trail they rode that day.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    This thread reminds me of a bunch of dudes sitting around a campfire after a days ride comparing stories on how they hit a certain section of trail they rode that day.
    I'll bring beer, you bring some chips!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    This thread reminds me of a bunch of dudes sitting around a campfire after a days ride comparing stories on how they hit a certain section of trail they rode that day.
    That is a massive improvement over the normal 'feel' of a thread around here.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    This thread reminds me of a bunch of dudes sitting around a campfire after a days ride comparing stories on how they hit a certain section of trail they rode that day.
    As stated above it is great to have one of these threads show up.
    Reading through the posts I see all the elements (steps) I'd use.
    First is knowing I have to get the front up a bit to prevent endo, a little lift is required. A "yank" often works, but a pre-load and weight-shift is smoother technique. This does mean getting off the brakes, even if you then use a touch of front to settle your fork a bit so its rebound helps lift the bike.
    The 2nd and most important thing is to push the bike out over the drop (the place where it cuts under, or right before it starts to flatten). With this move you'll start over the top tube and end with your ass behind the saddle, arms straight out.
    Sometimes I get fooled and it is a smooth landing using maybe half the travel, sometimes you need to move back over the center of the bike real fast so when you land you can absord some of the impact.
    I am going on a road trip (5hr drive one way) in a few weeks to a trail where a few of these things are waiting to test us. Thanks for the stoke!
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  21. #21
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    There are 3 options

    1) Fine a line with a smoother rollout. I have been in chutes like that where there is a bit of room in the trail and one side has sharp drop off a 12" over it rolls out better.

    if not

    2) Go slow, but not too slow, and try to ride it out. Too slow and you stall and endo. Too fast and you just plow in. You need enough speed to keep the bike rolling need to keep the front end light as you weight will be tossed forward as front wheel goes over. This I what I used most often, but I really would rather do the next one. Of course this only works if the drop is not too big. Once past a certain height you will just go over.

    3) manual off the end so you don't load up the front wheel too much. Even a if it not perfect it will help. You need some speed to do this. More than just rolling it. Saw a guy do one of these. Steep rock roll at top of maybe 2 bike lengths then 24" vertical drop. He was doing this from a dead stop at the top of the rock so it was near impossible to get any momentum. So he rolled a bit an then really manhandled the front end to get up so he could land flat. If he did not it was endo city. This was not on the main trail, but sort of party trick move on the edge of the trail.


    #3 is much easier said than done, but I would say is the "right" way to do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Shortly after impact contact your manufacturer for any frame warranty issues.
    Thanks for all the helpful replies...this one in particular gave me a good chuckle.

    Onward! Going to try the manual method on some smaller versions of this.

  23. #23
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    Curious what this spot actually looks like, instead of an ascii representation. I've ridden all kinds of stuff with variations on this. Most of it not as big, I think, as some in this thread are imagining it could be. I've certainly seen pics and video of similar features that are bigger than I would ride. I've also encountered my share that I've chosen to walk. Usually not the drop itself, but rather the landing zone and runout is how I decide whether to ride something or not.

    There are some downhills near me that are just a series of steep downhill chutes punctuated by multiple drops. Each drop is unique. Some are rollable, others you've gotta approach a little more slowly to line yourself up, let off the brakes to build some speed, and manual off, others wind up being fairly smooth if you just maintain your speed and stay loose over the bike. Some, if you've got enough speed, a capable bike, and less self-preservation instinct than testosterone, you can huck multiple of them in one go. Some require multiple tries to get right.

  24. #24
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    How many feet is this trail section? The pic given dosnt give any scale.

  25. #25
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    This short video may help. Heís on a short drop in but the same principles apply to something longer.

    https://youtu.be/Eu5LnWK8Pk0


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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by neeko b View Post
    --\
    ....\
    .....\
    ......|___

    So you are riding down a steep rock chute and there is a vertical drop at the bottom (or in the middle). I've taken an L in this situation enough to ask you all. Should one lean it back into a wheelie, mid-chute? Seems hard to initiate this motion since I am already leaning way back.

    I tried to create a little example above, preferably the landing would be on a nice angle.

    Thank you!
    You're probably leaning too far back on the roller part - if you stay better centered there, you'll have more room to work with getting the front end up some.
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  27. #27
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    Welcome to the world of difficult moves!
    A 29er front/24 rear is probably the answer.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    How many feet is this trail section? The pic given dosnt give any scale.
    I measure it at about 3/4"

    vertical drops at the bottom of steep chutes-20181026_132549.jpg
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    i measure it at about 3/4"

    Click image for larger version. 

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    lmao!!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I measure it at about 3/4"

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The challenging part is only 3/8Ē. I would think that would go by in a flash.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I measure it at about 3/4"

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So about 3-4 internet feet?
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  32. #32
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    Huckin' Kitty shows you how it's done.

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  33. #33
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    lol! ^ Looks like the rouge trail I went down that sent me OTB last vacation!
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Huckin' Kitty shows you how it's done.

    LOL


    In the real world, i've tackled these a few ways. If it's under 5', huck it like a kitty. A lot of the times these are a rock roll or a trench, and you can take them at an angle to keep the front end up. If it's a straight smash, the video jonesjus posted is the ticket. Sometimes there's a rock or something there that can let you roll it out.

    Most techniques are 'brake check... release MOVE' so that's the fallback plan when you're in. Nose augers are a good way to get hurt.
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  35. #35
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    Hilarious!
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Huckin' Kitty shows you how it's done.

    IMA HUGE Huckin' Kitty fan!

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  38. #38
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    Never in a million years would I have thought Huckin Kitty would make an appearance in my thread.... He is smooth, fast, and doesn't even notice the drop at the end.
    Praises to Huckin Kitty.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by neeko b View Post
    Never in a million years would I have thought Huckin Kitty would make an appearance in my thread.... He is smooth, fast, and doesn't even notice the drop at the end.
    Praises to Huckin Kitty.
    He pretty much gapped the whole section.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    You're probably leaning too far back on the roller part - if you stay better centered there, you'll have more room to work with getting the front end up some.
    This is good advice.

    Enter the initial section centered on your bike. At the drop, quickly push you bike out in front of you and then upon landing recenter yourself on the bike.

    Of course, practice this on terrain that has minimal consequence of failure first.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    This is good advice.

    Enter the initial section centered on your bike. At the drop, quickly push you bike out in front of you and then upon landing recenter yourself on the bike.

    Of course, practice this on terrain that has minimal consequence of failure first.
    It is good advice depending on how steep the initial drop is. By the looks of that rendering he drew up Iím thinking getting back a bit would be a better option. Just look at Hucking Kitty and amount of air time he got. Hard telling how fast his approach was but it sure looks steep if he completely missed the initial drop section.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  42. #42
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    This reminds me of that one black diamond spot on Gooseberry Mesa (S. Rim trial, near the end) except it is a clean ~15' boulder drop (not a chute), but it gets very perpendicular about 1 1/2' from the bottom.
    Took about three approaches sufficiently to sack up, and when I finally rolled it, of course I couldn't pull it up enough at the end.
    The impact pinch flatted the front despite the 30psi, while my right foot came off took a hard dab. Barely kept myself upright. Got lucky!
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I'd fix it. This would take the enjoyment of the chute out of my ride. Spend a Sunday on the trail with a shovel and build a transition. Someone (if not you) will eventually get hurt riding it.

    I would also love to see pictures of it - looks awesome (with a little work!).
    Nooooooo please we don't need to keep making everything easier

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I'd fix it. This would take the enjoyment of the chute out of my ride. Spend a Sunday on the trail with a shovel and build a transition. Someone (if not you) will eventually get hurt riding it.

    I would also love to see pictures of it - looks awesome (with a little work!).
    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Nooooooo please we don't need to keep making everything easier
    No kidding, I missed that post. Watcha Watcha Watcha, see my signature? that is a pet peeve of not only me but it should be all of us. The bikes are getting more capable and it seems way too many want to groom the trails. You may as well just pave them over at that point.

    Besides if a little kitty cat can clean it, I bet most human mtbrs could session it enough to conquer it.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  45. #45
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    Or the 3rd option is to Biker-Fox it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    It is good advice depending on how steep the initial drop is. By the looks of that rendering he drew up Iím thinking getting back a bit would be a better option.
    A bit back fine, but not so much you don't have anything left to work with.

    This is a pretty steep roller (doesn't have the vert section at the end); you can see that with a more centered position, there's still plenty of bend in knees and elbows to get a little front end lift going, rather than having them all locked out and all hanging off the back. Usually you only have to get far back for the split second you actually go over the lip (and then only if it's an abrupt transition from flat ground), then you can recenter for the actual decent.

    vertical drops at the bottom of steep chutes-bs5683.jpg
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    A bit back fine, but not so much you don't have anything left to work with.

    This is a pretty steep roller (doesn't have the vert section at the end); you can see that with a more centered position, there's still plenty of bend in knees and elbows to get a little front end lift going, rather than having them all locked out and all hanging off the back. Usually you only have to get far back for the split second you actually go over the lip (and then only if it's an abrupt transition from flat ground), then you can recenter for the actual decent.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've found that it's more useful to talk about getting low. Movements forward or backward from "centered", IME, tend to be momentary or short duration things to achieve something specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I've found that it's more useful to talk about getting low. Movements forward or backward from "centered", IME, tend to be momentary or short duration things to achieve something specific.
    Makes sense to me!
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  49. #49
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    One thing I've noticed is that slopes often aren't as steep as people think they are. You stand at the top of a slope, look down, and think to yourself, "Holy shit that's vertical!" Then if you stand off to the side of it and really look at the pitch it's more like 45 degrees, even 60 degrees, but nothing near vertical. This effect happens a lot in skiing. Also, drop-offs usually aren't as tall when you look at them from the side as they look from on top, since your eyeballs are a few feet higher than the take-off point.

    If I'm trying to solve a very tricky trail section sometimes it helps me to stop, get off the bike, walk it and take a good look to analyze it rather than just rolling through it at speed hoping I make it this time.

  50. #50
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    Jeremy and Slap have good advice. In general while riding steeps you shouldn't have your weight way back. Next time you ride a steep, trying keeping your weight slightly more centered over the bottom bracket, which may require you moving forward slightly after you drop in. You should notice immediately you have more control as it will leave you room to make moves like the one you need to make in the OP.

    Shifting your weight way back is usually a quick move, almost always followed by a return to center. Otherwise you leave yourself in a position where you are stuck if you need to make a subsequent move.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    I'd fix it. This would take the enjoyment of the chute out of my ride. Spend a Sunday on the trail with a shovel and build a transition. Someone (if not you) will eventually get hurt riding it.

    I would also love to see pictures of it - looks awesome (with a little work!).
    Stay off our trails.

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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Stay off our trails.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I think everyone should want him to stay away, but there are reports of someone (maybe him?) Doing this exact thing on a steep rollin on a popular trail near me. Unfortunately some people do want this kind of crap.

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  53. #53
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    I see HK rides those 26 wheelz?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  54. #54
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    Some worthy advice and some pisstaking advice. I too am in awe with hucking kitties style.

    Anyway, to the advice.


    You need to provide more detail for a more accurate response.

    But here goes based on th info provided.

    Steep to vert to steep is easy, Just ensure the front is parrallel to the downface after the vert. That means you need to let go of the brakes and manual over the vert section. Brakes over the vert section = pain.


    Steep to vert to flat is the hardest type of steep. You need to control your speed until the precipise of the vert then bust a wheelie drop to land both wheels at the same time.

    It requires some built up wheelie, steep and vert riding experience. If you have to ask, you're not yet good enough to try it.


    Get it wrong and you will be picking your teeth out of the stem.

  55. #55
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    Wait, are you the guy who's future wife wants a divorce due to your repetitive injuries?
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  56. #56
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    Last edited by Wacha Wacha Wacha; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:56 PM.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacha Wacha Wacha View Post
    Man tough crowd. I guess I did fail to consider my audience; I can see how that would get everyone up in arms back home.

    I assure you - I'm not messing with your trails, Harold. FWIW (not much apparently) on the other side of the pond and in my neck of the woods, there is no maintenance - it's by a rider or by no one. We have to rake out our own brake ruts, fix the berms, maintain foliage, etc... I will state back home, I've never even thought of bringing a shovel in.

    I do think a picture would help everyone understand the magnitude of OP. I prefer the huckin' kitty style anyway.
    ... But you weren't discussing maintenance, you were discussing altering a feature because you can't ride it. Maintenance would suggest it used to have a transition and now doesn't. That's not what we're discussing. It seems like you know this and are just back-pedaling to save face. No need, we know people like you exist... I spend a fair amount of time undoing your work.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    I see HK rides those 26 wheelz?
    Thatís why heís such a good hucker.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by neeko b View Post
    --\
    ....\
    .....\
    ......|___

    So you are riding down a steep rock chute and there is a vertical drop at the bottom (or in the middle). I've taken an L in this situation enough to ask you all. Should one lean it back into a wheelie, mid-chute? Seems hard to initiate this motion since I am already leaning way back.

    I tried to create a little example above, preferably the landing would be on a nice angle.

    Thank you!
    I say back flip it like Lacondeguy, problem solved.
    Can Huck'n Kitty backflip?
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    One thing I've noticed is that slopes often aren't as steep as people think they are. You stand at the top of a slope, look down, and think to yourself, "Holy shit that's vertical!"
    I rode a 12ft vert ramp a couple times. That shit is scary.

    Btw, watch bmx riders ride vert, they're *not* hanging off the back of the bike.

    *Edit: can't type good
    Last edited by jeremy3220; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:58 PM.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Thatís why heís such a good hucker.
    Hucking Kitty moves so effortlessly too...it's like, the non-paper thin rubberz are built strong and not heavy like a wagon?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    I rode a 12ft vert ramp a couple times. That shit is scary.

    Btw, watch bmx riders ride vert, they're hanging off the back of the bike.
    Say what???

    I've spent a good amount of time in parks and never seen that (at least from anyone that wasn't in the middle of crashing their brains out). Vert ramps don't actually work all that much like a steep dirt descent, particularly with the way you enter them from the side rather than straight on. If you hang off the bike of your bike riding down one, you're guaranteed to bust your ass when you loop out at the bottom every time.

    My kid showing how it's supposed to look:

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    I rode a 12ft vert ramp a couple times. That shit is scary.

    Btw, watch bmx riders ride vert, they're hanging off the back of the bike.
    You're talking man-made there. Not too many mountain bike trails are genuinely vertical, at least not for very long.

  64. #64
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    lean back and go slow in the chute, right before the actual drop let go of the rear brake and really pull up and back. easy peasy...


  65. #65
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    I retract my replies.

    I was wrong.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Say what???
    Dang it, I meant they're not hanging off the back of the bike. The point was if you're off the brakes on the steep chute you should be in attack position. If you grow up riding BMX this stuff seems pretty natural.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Dang it, I meant they're not hanging off the back of the bike.
    That sounds better.

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