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  1. #1
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    using a lumbar pack in addition to my hydration pack

    so i had a thread here:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/general-disc...ng-871615.html

    where i asked where you keep the phone. as a reminder my phone doesn't fit in my pocket:



    the phone in the picture is actually Note 3, but my Note 2 is the same size, besides i will have the Note 3 soon.

    anyway, at some point during the older thread i realized that i have to keep the phone on my body, rather than on the bike if i want to be able to listen to music in headphones without becoming physically tethered to the bike.

    since that older thread i fixed my Galaxy Note 2 that i dropped on the pavement while going downhill. turned out all it needed was a new battery ( battery got ejected from the phone, ran over and crushed during the accident ). the fact that my Note 2 survived that drop ( which was at about 15 mph ) made me love the Note even more, so when Note 3 was recently announced it didn't take long for me to decide that i will be getting it as soon as it comes out on October 1st. the Note 3 is same size as Note 2 so at this point whether i get Note 3 or keep Note 2 i already know exactly what size the compartment in the bag for it needs to be.

    i already ride with hydration pack, made by North Face and i love it - it is very well made - has plenty of capacity for water, batteries for my lights for night riding, spare tubes, pump, multi-tool. but it doesn't have any pockets i can access without taking it off.

    the solution ? a waist pack:



    this way i would be able to listen to music while riding, and i could reach the phone with my hand without taking the bag off.

    what do you think of the idea in general - do you think it will work ? can you recommend any waist pack ? are there any made specifically for cycling ?
    Last edited by androgen; 09-14-2013 at 01:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    ok i will start listing some options.

    maxpedition octa:

    Maxpedition OCTA Versipack - eBags.com

  3. #3
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    here is another option.

    Mountainsmith Nitro TLS

    Mountainsmith Nitro TLS R - eBags.com

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    I feel bad, its like nobody has anything to say about your fanny pack question - I mean lumbar pack question.

    Anyway, I think it could work to wear a hydration pack and a lumbar pack. It does seem like overkill though. And its all because of the size of that phone. It may be the cat's a$$, but the size of it is ridiculous.

    I don't listen to music when I ride, but I think you would be way better off syncing your tunes to a cheap MP3 player that easily could fit in your hydration pack. The MP3 player would be cheaper and lighter than the lumbar pack.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by huffster View Post
    I feel bad, its like nobody has anything to say about your fanny pack question - I mean lumbar pack question.

    Anyway, I think it could work to wear a hydration pack and a lumbar pack. It does seem like overkill though. And its all because of the size of that phone. It may be the cat's a$$, but the size of it is ridiculous.

    I don't listen to music when I ride, but I think you would be way better off syncing your tunes to a cheap MP3 player that easily could fit in your hydration pack. The MP3 player would be cheaper and lighter than the lumbar pack.
    we have this dead guy named Steve Jobs who one day pulled out a certain phone size out of his ass and told everybody that all phones must be that size. and because Americans are conditioned from birth to be slaves they took his order to obey.

    i've had iPhones for years, and i still don't understand how people with eye sight that's not nearly as good as mine can use that tiny screen. or how people with hands bigger than mine can type on that tiny keyboard.

    the whole iPhone size was predicated on the idea that a phone is a one-handed device. however the only time we actually text one-handed is when driving, and you're not supposed to text and drive to begin with, and google now will do just about anything you want form a voice command.

    many note 2 owners like myself were disappointed that Note 3 wasn't bigger when it was announced. the screen was incresed from 5.5 to 5.7 inches when we were expecting 5.8 to 6.3 inch screen. of course iphone 5 is 4 inches and iphone 4 is 3.5 inches. Samsung does make a 6.3 inch phone called Mega but it isn't as advanced as the Note.

    The note fits PERFECTLY into my pants pockets - i don't even know it's there - it is only when i ride then i start to run into issues. Some people are afraid they will look silly with the Note up against their face when talking, well, first of all i don't care if i look silly and secondly i rarely speak that way because i don't want the 4G radiation next to my head - i typically use the speakerphone, or i may use a wired headset, and if i do put the phone next to my head i don't see how this is the end of the world to have some moron think that Steve Jobs wouldn't approve.

    and by the way in China phones this size are becoming the Norm, it is only in America where zombies are still under the spell of Steve Jobs think that this size is "ridiculous" sort of how Americans think that station wagon and hatchback cars and fanny packs are ridiculous. on the other hand Americans don't think it is ridiculous for a single 80 pound woman to drive a 6,000 pound suv around the city to shop for handbags. also Americans don't think it is ridiculous to have three of your friends in the back of of a 2 door car when there is barely enough room back there for one dog - because Americans think style is more important than function.

    everything that is practical or healthy or smart is considered ridiculous in America. and everything that is dumb or dangerous is considered cool. i say all this as an American.

    i refuse to be a sheep and bend to Steve Jobs' will even when he has been dead for years and other parts of the world like China have already moved on.

    Steve Jobs also said that a smaller iPad would never work, but after Apple, after his death, copied 7" Android tablets and created iPad mini it became their best selling iPad. Since then Google beat apple to the punch with Google Glass and Samsung beat Apple with Galaxy Gear smartwatch. Apple is Done. Finished. It is trying to play catch up with Android and can't keep up, while the zombie sheep are still following the words of Jobs like gospel when Jobs was a notorious liar known for reversing his opinion 180 degrees on the dime. Apple fanboys are simply too dumb to know that Jobs said things like "iPod will never have video" etc. If Jobs was alive he would probably have a 6" iPhone on the market by now ( by the way Apple is testing 6" iPhones right now, while Samsung is already in 3rd Generation ) but Jobs is dead, so Apple Fanboys have no choice but to tell people who think for ourselves that our phones are ridiculous.

    i don't want a stupid ass iPod nano. if i'm going to buy a device of that size it will be a Samsung Galaxy Gear smarwatch, which is designed specifically to remotely control Galaxy Note 3, so i could have my Note 3 in my ASS PACK and control it from my wrist watch.

    and why would i want a cheap mp3 player? i'm using $300 top of the line Sennheiser earbuds and Samsung Galaxy Note has some of the best audio hardware and software of any portable device - it is even better for music than a dedicated iPod like iPod touch, and i have 80 gigs of memory in mine, more than any iPhone can have. i have had an iPod touch and while it has superior output level and noise levels its equalizer is not nearly as useful as that of the Note. the output level is only needed for inefficient headphones and noise level would only be an issue in a library, not on the ride, while the superior equalizer of the Note would make a difference anywhere, even in Traffic. I can get the bass and treble and everything in between exactly as i like unlike iPhone where you have to use their stupid presets, because Apple knows their customer can't figure out how to use a manual equalizer.

    besides, what is it with this slavish need to be like everybody else ? that's not my style. it is ironic that Apple Motto was "think different" but all their followers are carbon copies of each other who all have the same size phone, dress the same way, listen to the same music etc. LOL.

  7. #7
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    using a lumbar pack in addition to my hydration pack

    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    we have this dead guy named Steve Jobs who one day pulled out a certain phone size out of his ass and told everybody that all phones must be that size. and because Americans are conditioned from birth to be slaves they took his order to obey.

    i've had iPhones for years, and i still don't understand how people with eye sight that's not nearly as good as mine can use that tiny screen. or how people with hands bigger than mine can type on that tiny keyboard.

    the whole iPhone size was predicated on the idea that a phone is a one-handed device. however the only time we actually text one-handed is when driving, and you're not supposed to text and drive to begin with, and google now will do just about anything you want form a voice command.

    many note 2 owners like myself were disappointed that Note 3 wasn't bigger when it was announced. the screen was incresed from 5.5 to 5.7 inches when we were expecting 5.8 to 6.3 inch screen. of course iphone 5 is 4 inches and iphone 4 is 3.5 inches. Samsung does make a 6.3 inch phone called Mega but it isn't as advanced as the Note.

    The note fits PERFECTLY into my pants pockets - i don't even know it's there - it is only when i ride then i start to run into issues. Some people are afraid they will look silly with the Note up against their face when talking, well, first of all i don't care if i look silly and secondly i rarely speak that way because i don't want the 4G radiation next to my head - i typically use the speakerphone, or i may use a wired headset, and if i do put the phone next to my head i don't see how this is the end of the world to have some moron think that Steve Jobs wouldn't approve.

    and by the way in China phones this size are becoming the Norm, it is only in America where zombies are still under the spell of Steve Jobs think that this size is "ridiculous" sort of how Americans think that station wagon and hatchback cars and fanny packs are ridiculous. on the other hand Americans don't think it is ridiculous for a single 80 pound woman to drive a 6,000 pound suv around the city to shop for handbags. also Americans don't think it is ridiculous to have three of your friends in the back of of a 2 door car when there is barely enough room back there for one dog - because Americans think style is more important than function.

    everything that is practical or healthy or smart is considered ridiculous in America. and everything that is dumb or dangerous is considered cool. i say all this as an American.

    i refuse to be a sheep and bend to Steve Jobs' will even when he has been dead for years and other parts of the world like China have already moved on.

    Steve Jobs also said that a smaller iPad would never work, but after Apple, after his death, copied 7" Android tablets and created iPad mini it became their best selling iPad. Since then Google beat apple to the punch with Google Glass and Samsung beat Apple with Galaxy Gear smartwatch. Apple is Done. Finished. It is trying to play catch up with Android and can't keep up, while the zombie sheep are still following the words of Jobs like gospel when Jobs was a notorious liar known for reversing his opinion 180 degrees on the dime. Apple fanboys are simply too dumb to know that Jobs said things like "iPod will never have video" etc. If Jobs was alive he would probably have a 6" iPhone on the market by now ( by the way Apple is testing 6" iPhones right now, while Samsung is already in 3rd Generation ) but Jobs is dead, so Apple Fanboys have no choice but to tell people who think for ourselves that our phones are ridiculous.

    i don't want a stupid ass iPod nano. if i'm going to buy a device of that size it will be a Samsung Galaxy Gear smarwatch, which is designed specifically to remotely control Galaxy Note 3, so i could have my Note 3 in my ASS PACK and control it from my wrist watch.

    and why would i want a cheap mp3 player? i'm using $300 top of the line Sennheiser earbuds and Samsung Galaxy Note has some of the best audio hardware and software of any portable device - it is even better for music than a dedicated iPod like iPod touch, and i have 80 gigs of memory in mine, more than any iPhone can have. i have had an iPod touch and while it has superior output level and noise levels its equalizer is not nearly as useful as that of the Note. the output level is only needed for inefficient headphones and noise level would only be an issue in a library, not on the ride, while the superior equalizer of the Note would make a difference anywhere, even in Traffic. I can get the bass and treble and everything in between exactly as i like unlike iPhone where you have to use their stupid presets, because Apple knows their customer can't figure out how to use a manual equalizer.

    besides, what is it with this slavish need to be like everybody else ? that's not my style. it is ironic that Apple Motto was "think different" but all their followers are carbon copies of each other who all have the same size phone, dress the same way, listen to the same music etc. LOL.
    I will respectfully disagree with some of what you have said above and this is why.

    For me the thing that for me Apple has done is produce something that has a better track record for not failing. (Once again my opinion and personal experience)

    I am on my second iMac, first is moved to garage for work access. Neither of my iMacs have not had any failures and the prior pc's (pre-built and custom built) I have had would start having issues less than 4 mo into ownership. (Blue screen of death, freezing up etc) all the way to needing to be scrubbed and decompressing the hard drive weekly. First iMac is 6+ years old without any failures.

    On phones, every android owner I know has loved their phone/device for the first year, then they start failing... Turning themselves off and on, disconnecting, sending multiple messages etc. I have the first Verizon iPhone 4, 3+ yrs strong, just as good as when I got it. Is it as fast as the new phones, nope but does everything I ask of it and more. I can not afford to replace my phone yearly so that comes into play when I make my decisions.

    On phone size I personally do not have any desire to have a phablet, its not how it looks holding it up its portability. My pockets won't hold something with a 6-7" screen comfortably.

    Who knows, maybe ill change my tune. I am not impressed with what I am reading with the "updates" coming from apple but until there is some improved reliability issues I'm not planning on changing. (May be from my affinity to old Toyotas that keep going and going and going........)


    Sent from magic wish granting phone

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcksqrl View Post
    I will respectfully disagree with some of what you have said above and this is why.
    iphones do hold their value longer because apple updates all iphones with latest software while with android latest software only is available for the latest and most powerful phones. you pretty much have to buy a new android phone every year, but with iphone you can indeed stretch it out for a few years because every year the software gets updated.

    for example when Note 2 came out it had Android 4.1 but the Note 1 did NOT get that same version and kept an older version. now the Note 3 is coming out with android 4.3 but the Note 2 will not get 4.3, in fact it won't even get 4.2.

    however if you're on a contract you can sell your old phone on Amazon or Craigslist or Ebay and use that $ to buy a new phone subsidized. for example a the Note is $300 subsidized on ATT but you can easily sell your last year's note for $300 to pay for the new one. with an iPhone you can sell your last year's iPhone for $400 and buy a new one subsidized for $200 so with an iPhone you can make $200 every year by getting a new one, while with the Note you just break even.

    if you want a new smartphone on the budget you can look into Nokia Windows Phones. they're good and cheap, just not as powerful as Samsung or Apple. Basically Samsung gets new features first, then Apple gets half of those features a year later, and then Windows gets still half of Apple's features a year later still, then again Blackberry gets those features another 2 years later.

    basically Android is an experimental platform, it's always next-generation but its also always in beta. iPhone is mainstream. Windows Phone is a budget copycat, but a pretty good one. Blackberry is finished.

    the only real downside to Samsung Galaxy phones you need to be aware of is their screen isn't as bright as iphone when viewed in Sunlight. that's actually because Samsung Galaxy uses a much more advanced screen than iPhone - it uses organic LED instead of LCD, which produces much more vivid colors, but isn't as good in sunlight. for most people AMOLED screens on Samsung are better than IPS LED screens on Apple, but not for people who spend a lot of time outdoors like construction workers etc. AMOLED screens are usually only found on premium Samsung phones though, while the budget ones use screens with washed out colors like Apple. just be aware of the differences between AMOLED and LCD screen because non-Apple products come in both. Apple cannot use AMOLED because Samsung won't sell it to them As you may know most of the iPhone parts are made by Samsung, and then assembled by Foxconn. Samsung makes the Processors, the Memory and the Screens for iPhones, but Samsung makes inferior screens for the iPhone and superior AMOLED screens for itself. Can't really blame them

  9. #9
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    using a lumbar pack in addition to my hydration pack

    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    Samsung makes inferior screens for the iPhone and superior AMOLED screens for itself. Can't really blame them
    Not at all! Buisness is buisness!!


    Sent from magic wish granting phone

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcksqrl View Post
    I will respectfully disagree with some of what you have said above and this is why.
    by the way if you get around to upgrading your 3 year old phone the easiest way to tell which phone to get is this rankings chart - it gets updated every week with ratings from real users as well as professional phone reviewers. the user ratings and expert ratings are kept in two separate columns:

    Smartphone Rankings | PhoneDog

    as you see the only two old phones ( phones from last year ) that are still in the top 2 are Note 2 and iPhone 5. the Note 2 is in people's choice number 2 and iPhone 5 in the Expert choice. the phone in number 1 is much newer than either iPhone 5 or Note 2.

    when in a month iPhone 5S and Note 3 come out they will both go straight to the top of the chart. most likely Note 3 will take number 1 on both charts, but iPhone 5S may take number 1 on Expert chart ( Experts can get sued by Apple for writing bad reviews ). the iPhone 5S has almost no chance of beating Note 3 on the People's chart.

    last year Note 2 pummeled the charts. this year the upgrade from Note 2 to Note 3 is just as significant as last year from Note 1 to Note 2 so the Note will get a huge boost in ratings. the iPhone upgrade this year is hard to judge - the hardware upgrade is minimal - the design is still the same - but the software change pretty significant - at least in terms of style.

    but also keep in mind iPhone is boosted in these charts because Android phones split each other's votes but there is only one iPhone so it takes all the votes by itself. if there were five or six iPhone models splitting the votes they would barely register on the chart at all.

    so the only reason iPhone is up there is because it doesn't have its vote split, and the only reason HTC ONE is up there is because its a year newer than either iPhone or Note 2. when you account for those factors you see the Note series OWNS this chart. the Note 2 also has the highest user reviews on AT&T website. the Note is also the phone carried as personal device by CEO of Samsung, and Samsung is world's number 1 phone maker.

    so ...

  11. #11
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    using a lumbar pack in addition to my hydration pack

    Not holding my breath on the 5s, I agree it won't be the top pick.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcksqrl View Post
    I will respectfully disagree with some of what you have said above and this is why.
    i will admit however if you want to find accessories for your phone then:

    for headphones iPhone is number 1 for accessories, as headsets don't always work exactly the same between iPhone and Android. you should still have no problem finding headsets for the Galaxy series ( either S or Note ) however don't buy anything like LG etc. my Bose headset works with iPhone and Note 2 but didn't work with LG android phone ( the mic would not work ). so for headsets iPhone is the surest bet, followed by Samsung, then everything else. Bose and Klipsch headsets are designed for iPhone ( don't know if this changed ). i'm not really sure why my Bose works with my Note - as i said there are some differences with Apple in this department which caused the Bose to not work with LG for example. also my iPhone's original white headset didn't work with LG as well. i don't have the white iPhone headset any more to test it on my Note ( sold it with the iPhone ).

    for cases and holders iPhone is again number 1 for accessories, followed by Galaxy S4/S3 for which you would also not have any problems for the most part

    finding cases / holders etc for the Note to be honest is a nightmare. you can certainly find a protective case for the Note, but not the highest quality one like Otterbox Defender or Lifeproof - they are not available for the Note. and as for bike holders they don't exist for the Note 2 at all except some off-brand one with not a single review for it. it probably won't be much better for Note 3.

    so there are definite downsides. it's not all sugar and honey in the Android land

  13. #13
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    Re: using a lumbar pack in addition to my hydration pack

    I like how a question about a fanny pack turns into an apple/Android debate. Lol
    Why not just get a hydration pack with a phone holder? I know the note is huge, so it might lot fit into the pouch on (say) the M. U. L. E., but maybe swap out packs for something with more space?

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    Re: using a lumbar pack in addition to my hydration pack

    Wingnut hydration packs. You can access the side pockets with the pack on. I use the Hyper 2.5 and would never need more space unless I start bikepacking.

    If you wear a lumbar pack AND a typical hydration pack, you'll look even more ridiculous than the preceding debate on phone preferences.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GelatiCruiser View Post
    I like how a question about a fanny pack turns into an apple/Android debate. Lol
    Why not just get a hydration pack with a phone holder? I know the note is huge, so it might lot fit into the pouch on (say) the M. U. L. E., but maybe swap out packs for something with more space?
    but i think the fanny pack makes a lot of sense. you could put other things in there aside from the phone like wallet, keys, sunglasses, pepper spray, folding knife - and it only takes a second to rotate the fanny pack to the front and you have access to all those things instead of taking off a hydration pack which takes much longer.

    i just can't decide between the technical style of the MountainSmith and the tactical style of the Maxpedition.

    the Maxpedition is obviously more versatile, but it is also heavier, and it's look doesn't match the look of the hydration pack as well, and it comes in all the wrong colors - from black to camo - whereas the technical pack comes in bright colors that you want as a biker.

    what do you think ?

  16. #16
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    OK thanks everybody ! I ordered the Maxpedition Octa in black.

    by the way i found a pic of it used on a biker !

    it's a big larger than i needed but it will have extra versatility.


  17. #17
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    I just received my Maxpedition Versipack Octa and it fits the phone perfectly, i made a video to demonstrate:


  18. #18
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    iphones/ipods and ipads have horrible security. I have seen how easy it is to hack them and steal the info out of the IOS. For that reason I will never use one. Nothing is perfect but the demonstration I saw in person was so simple it was scary.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  19. #19
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    Call me crazy. Call me a rebel.

    I put my phone in my pocket when I ride.

    iPhone 5 in a Lifeproof case. Fits fine. Don't notice it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    we have this dead guy named Steve Jobs who one day pulled out a certain phone size out of his ass and told everybody that all phones must be that size. and because Americans are conditioned from birth to be slaves they took his order to obey.

    i've had iPhones for years, and i still don't understand how people with eye sight that's not nearly as good as mine can use that tiny screen. or how people with hands bigger than mine can type on that tiny keyboard.

    the whole iPhone size was predicated on the idea that a phone is a one-handed device. however the only time we actually text one-handed is when driving, and you're not supposed to text and drive to begin with, and google now will do just about anything you want form a voice command.

    many note 2 owners like myself were disappointed that Note 3 wasn't bigger when it was announced. the screen was incresed from 5.5 to 5.7 inches when we were expecting 5.8 to 6.3 inch screen. of course iphone 5 is 4 inches and iphone 4 is 3.5 inches. Samsung does make a 6.3 inch phone called Mega but it isn't as advanced as the Note.

    The note fits PERFECTLY into my pants pockets - i don't even know it's there - it is only when i ride then i start to run into issues. Some people are afraid they will look silly with the Note up against their face when talking, well, first of all i don't care if i look silly and secondly i rarely speak that way because i don't want the 4G radiation next to my head - i typically use the speakerphone, or i may use a wired headset, and if i do put the phone next to my head i don't see how this is the end of the world to have some moron think that Steve Jobs wouldn't approve.

    and by the way in China phones this size are becoming the Norm, it is only in America where zombies are still under the spell of Steve Jobs think that this size is "ridiculous" sort of how Americans think that station wagon and hatchback cars and fanny packs are ridiculous. on the other hand Americans don't think it is ridiculous for a single 80 pound woman to drive a 6,000 pound suv around the city to shop for handbags. also Americans don't think it is ridiculous to have three of your friends in the back of of a 2 door car when there is barely enough room back there for one dog - because Americans think style is more important than function.

    everything that is practical or healthy or smart is considered ridiculous in America. and everything that is dumb or dangerous is considered cool. i say all this as an American.

    i refuse to be a sheep and bend to Steve Jobs' will even when he has been dead for years and other parts of the world like China have already moved on.

    Steve Jobs also said that a smaller iPad would never work, but after Apple, after his death, copied 7" Android tablets and created iPad mini it became their best selling iPad. Since then Google beat apple to the punch with Google Glass and Samsung beat Apple with Galaxy Gear smartwatch. Apple is Done. Finished. It is trying to play catch up with Android and can't keep up, while the zombie sheep are still following the words of Jobs like gospel when Jobs was a notorious liar known for reversing his opinion 180 degrees on the dime. Apple fanboys are simply too dumb to know that Jobs said things like "iPod will never have video" etc. If Jobs was alive he would probably have a 6" iPhone on the market by now ( by the way Apple is testing 6" iPhones right now, while Samsung is already in 3rd Generation ) but Jobs is dead, so Apple Fanboys have no choice but to tell people who think for ourselves that our phones are ridiculous.

    i don't want a stupid ass iPod nano. if i'm going to buy a device of that size it will be a Samsung Galaxy Gear smarwatch, which is designed specifically to remotely control Galaxy Note 3, so i could have my Note 3 in my ASS PACK and control it from my wrist watch.

    and why would i want a cheap mp3 player? i'm using $300 top of the line Sennheiser earbuds and Samsung Galaxy Note has some of the best audio hardware and software of any portable device - it is even better for music than a dedicated iPod like iPod touch, and i have 80 gigs of memory in mine, more than any iPhone can have. i have had an iPod touch and while it has superior output level and noise levels its equalizer is not nearly as useful as that of the Note. the output level is only needed for inefficient headphones and noise level would only be an issue in a library, not on the ride, while the superior equalizer of the Note would make a difference anywhere, even in Traffic. I can get the bass and treble and everything in between exactly as i like unlike iPhone where you have to use their stupid presets, because Apple knows their customer can't figure out how to use a manual equalizer.

    besides, what is it with this slavish need to be like everybody else ? that's not my style. it is ironic that Apple Motto was "think different" but all their followers are carbon copies of each other who all have the same size phone, dress the same way, listen to the same music etc. LOL.
    A little obsessed, aren't we? It's just a phone. I use mine to call people, send texts, emails, take pictures and the like but it's hardly the center of my universe. Don't even think about it most of the time.

    I like the iPhone. I have the 5S. Seems to work fine.

    And while I'll grant you that there is a lot of stupidity in American popular culture, this is a global phenomenon and not confined to our country. The Chinese in particular gobble up all the popular crap they can get their hands on and their society is as venal and consumer-driven as ours.

    Again, as a mountain biker I understand the love of expensive equipment but seriously...$300 bucks for some ear buds?

    Wow.

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