some of worst components i've ever used- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    the half breed devil
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    some of worst components i've ever used

    i'm sure this subject has been done before, but i'm bored and thinking about it so here goes. most of my list will be from the nineties.

    onza HO clipless pedals

    grip shift clear 8 speed shifters

    rock shox judy cartridges (three consecutive replacements delivered blown to the LBS)

    green sidewall geax tires, i forget the specific model. these tires were really, really horrible and whoever i loaned the bike to complained how bad they were.

    niterider digital pro 12

    marin machine built 29er wheels (kept breaking spokes like popcorn after the first year of riding them)

    and here is kind of a glowing review i wrote on the niterider dual beam classic back in 2001 when my user name was "mike b":

    some of worst components i've ever used-screen-shot-2019-11-15-12.08.34-am.png

  2. #2
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    Too tired to rack my brain on problem components. Not too tired to ask what your beef was with the Nitrider Digital Pro 12 was?
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 11-16-2019 at 12:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  3. #3
    Nat
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    IBC hydraulic rim brakes. They were super flexible and the pads would just chatter and squeal instead of stopping the wheel.

    Kooka cranks. The pressed-on spider had a slight angle to it. I couldnít figure out why I kept dropping my chain until I noticed that the chainring wasnít in plane with the bike and had a slight wobble.

  4. #4
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    Continental Mountain King tires about 4-5 years ago.

    They claimed to be tubeless, but could hold the sealant. They were notorious for that.

    Set up with tubes, they would pinch flat even at bulletproof PSI.
    AreBee

  5. #5
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    Every Schwalbe tire I've used has either had all the side knobs torn off from normal riding (and no one would mistake me for an aggressive rider - Hans Dampf), or had the middle knobs rip off on a climb over rocky terrain to the point that no amount of sealant could possible seal the resulting hole (looking at you Nobby Nic).

    Never had either of these things happen with any other tire.

    Don't ask me why I gave these tires another chance after the first time I had these problems. Can't explain it.

  6. #6
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    Schwable tires.
    Surly Krampus
    All City MMD
    Kona Unit
    Surly Cross-Check

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    i'm sure this subject has been done before, but i'm bored and thinking about it so here goes. most of my list will be from the nineties.

    onza HO clipless pedals

    grip shift clear 8 speed shifters

    rock shox judy cartridges (three consecutive replacements delivered blown to the LBS)

    green sidewall geax tires, i forget the specific model. these tires were really, really horrible and whoever i loaned the bike to complained how bad they were.

    niterider digital pro 12

    marin machine built 29er wheels (kept breaking spokes like popcorn after the first year of riding them)

    and here is kind of a glowing review i wrote on the niterider dual beam classic back in 2001 when my user name was "mike b":
    I still remember falling into thornbushes near Kirkwood because my Onza HO pedals wouldn't release.

    Any old fork that didn't come with damping (Quadra, Manitou SX, Judy T2, etc.).

    1st gen gripshifters that were like a sloppy joe after a few miles.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  8. #8
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    This is all late 90s early 2000s stuff. Really havent had any issues with anything in recent memory. Maybe a few crappy dropper posts like the KS Supernatural.

    Purple Hayes Brakes- no power, no modulation

    Manitou Black fork- blew apart the first ride

    Formula Brakes, dont remember the model, new rear brake leaked all the fluid on a techie downhill and almost killed me.

    Almost all of the early suspension forks and shocks that had little to no damping or rebound controls.

    Manitou elastomer stack fork. Had to replace the elastomers about every 2 weeks.

    Early tubeless tires- was always blowing out sidewalls
    Sweet Jesus don't let the judge release me, what if she's a Zombie or a Dracula and tries to f&*king eat me.

  9. #9
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    Going back a long time ago: 1st gen hayes brakes. I can't say they weren't more powerful by anything available at that time by a country mile...but absolutely zero modulation - either not stopping or locked. I was so let down.

    More recently and I guess more of the same...but every Guide (and Juicy b4 that) from Sram has been a let down. I can get used to the lever feel even tho it's not my pref - but each one has succumbed to: master cyl - failing, defective, on recall or leaking. Nevermind the potential for annoying noise that other systems simply don't have to work around.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  10. #10
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    I never could understand peoples hate for Schwalbe tires. I consider myself an aggressive rider and have run Schwalbes for years, Racing Ralphs on my XC bike and Magic Marys, Rocket Rons and Hans Dampf on my enduro bike. They seem to wear just as good or better than most other tires I've used on my local So. Cal dirt. As far as tires are concerned, I've never had luck with any Kenda tire, be it for mtb, cross, gravel or road.

    Also, Sram brakes have also been great although I had a couple of failures on early Avid WC brakes.
    EXODUX Jeff

  11. #11
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    I never met a grip shifter I didn't hate
    Kind of like playing an electric drum kit

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I never met a grip shifter I didn't hate
    I, too, am no fan of them.
    The only important thing these days, is rhythm and melody. Rhythm...and melody.

  13. #13
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    Im racking my brain. Maybe the 1st(and only) set of Continental tires I had about 15 years ago. They sucked tubeless, but to be fair, they weren't designed for it and I shredded the sidewalls really quickly. All WTB and Maxxis since then.

    Oh, Mavic Crossmax xl's, 1st gen. Had to rebuild the rear hub every year(or less) and replaced pawls all the time. I finally picked up a bearing kit for it and never had an issue again. In the 12 years I ran them, never had a problem with the fronts. I did grow to hate the proprietary spokes on them and had to take my spoke wrench into the bike shop every time I got them trued up. Alll that said, they were pretty durable and i beat the crap out of them and they looked cool.

  14. #14
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    Shimano Deore U-brakes (circa '89).

    NightRider HID Torch (circa '04). Had to send it in for service each and every season. Paid close to $400 for it. Service cost ~$40 plus shipping to/from. When it worked, it worked great.

    Stans Sealant. First time I set them up (2014) they worked fantastic. After 2014, I believe they changed their formula to skim milk. There was no hole the sealant would fix.

    CranksBros Egg Beaters and Candies. When through 5 sets in one season. Axle/spindle kept snapping on the right pedal.

  15. #15
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    Maxxis Ardent 2.4

    Stans rapid Noodle wheels

    Esi foam grips (just hate the durability and not being able to ride without gloves at all)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    LMN
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    Hands down Marzocchi XC forks (2006-2008). They work really poorly for their entire service life of 2 weeks. I was racing those forks back then and conservatively it was 5 forks a year.

    Honourable mentions:

    RaceFace ISIS BBs. The first moves away from square taper BBs were not good. These BBs would last 2 to 3 weeks.
    Panaracers tires from the early 2000s (absolutely terrifying on anything wet)
    Early SRAM derailleurs and Shifters.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I never met a grip shifter I didn't hate

    I have an x01 on one of my fatbikes. Works good, keeps my hand warmer by not having to push triggers/paddles. Youíd think thatís insignificant but it matters when itís really cold. Only problem is the stock grip length is too long for my hand to rest on the grip AND be able to shift, so I have to move my hand inboard of the edge of the bar. Iím solving that with 20mm shorter grips. The shifter is much better than that old x-Ray crap.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #18
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    Kenda Small Block 8-Slow as an all mountain tire with none of the grip.

    Shimano SLX Brakes(2015)-Wept oil all over the pads, all the time. Took a picture with snow on the caliper yellowed by the mineral oil and all Shimano Warranty had to offer was "That's what brakes do, they really aren't designed to be used in the cold"

  19. #19
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    Can frame count?

    I had a 2011 Cannondale Flash Carbon 2 that I built up.

    Waited months for it on back order, rode it just a few times to realize I hated everything about it and then sold it within 6 months of getting it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    Can frame count?

    I had a 2011 Cannondale Flash Carbon 2 that I built up.

    Waited months for it on back order, rode it just a few times to realize I hated everything about it and then sold it within 6 months of getting it.
    Haha...I had one and actually liked it overall...aside from it's super spooky downhill handling. I had a lot of success racing that bike, and didn't know what I was missing until I switched to a Scott Scale, which handled much better.

  21. #21
    Nat
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    Did anyone here have one of those Campagnolo twist shifters on which the entire grip rotated? I always wondered if you'd be unintentionally banging through the gears.

  22. #22
    i'm schralping yer thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Kooka cranks. The pressed-on spider had a slight angle to it. I couldnít figure out why I kept dropping my chain until I noticed that the chainring wasnít in plane with the bike and had a slight wobble.
    Still worth it for the purple ano...

  23. #23
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Still worth it for the purple ano...
    Mine were ano red with a gold spider. Looked awesome, worked not so much awesome.

  24. #24
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    Some duplicates

    Onza pedals- you're not a real mtb'r until you've gassed on a climb only to truggle pulling your foot out and falling over in front of a bunch of strangers. Their post style cantilever brakes were awesome though.

    OG gripshift- I think they were made out of spaghetti noodles

    Shwable tires-couldn't agree more. Long list of shitty flimsy tires though.

    Kooka cranks- they liked to snap in half

    Odd headtube sizes that instantly made your frame obsolete

    Girvin stem...what the?!!

    Spin composite wheels- warped...what a giant waste of money

    Swing wings cranks- the design allowed the bb bearings to migrate rendering them useless. Another giant waste of money.

    Light weight tubes of yesteryear- what was I thinking
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  25. #25
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    And oh yeah, crankbrother pedals that like to disintegrate at the worst possible time.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  26. #26
    No known cure
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    E13 cranks. A close second is E13 customer service. They look cool though.

    For what its worth, I won the cranks, chainring, BB and BB tool in a raffle.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  27. #27
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    A lot of people hated the Shimano dual-control shifters but I didn't mind them too much.
    Niner Jet 9 RDO, Scalpel 29, XTC 650b, 04 Stumpjumper FSR Pro, Trek Rigid SS - No suspension, no gears....no problem

  28. #28
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    And oh yeah, Shimano dual control and crapid rise.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  29. #29
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    - shimano UN51 bb (plastic cup was made of cream cheese)
    - gripshift xray (cracked 3 in 3 days)
    - xtr m950 crank / bb (broke one in half, destroyed the bb, arms never wanted to stay on the axle)
    - certain lower end shimano hubs (cup and cone grinding out of the box)
    - Michelin wildgripper tires from the late 90s (inner wall would crack and then eat tubes in hours)
    - conti race king "tubeless" (definitely not tubeless unless you filled them with AB foam)
    - shimano 11 speed rear shifting (worst most finicky crap i've ever used, xt and ultegra di2)

    Most parts are at least functional. Those ones were horrid.
    I never hated the onza pedals all that much weirdly.

  30. #30
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    ztto 9-50 cassette, shifted like dog crap at best

    sunrace 11-50 cassette that hung upshifting between one gear, measured and it was a factory error.

    Unlike everyone else, I love my continental crosskings black chili 2018+

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    And oh yeah, Shimano dual control and crapid rise.
    Rapid rise worked great, but only when I remembered to shift backwards. But then, I did hate it when I jumped on my other non rr bike and would shift backwards, which actually was backwards andÖ yeah.

    Whatever the Cane Creek headset is/was that had a plastic race that would break and collapse into the headtube. Who really thought saving a tiny bit of money by making a plastic race was a good idea?
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  32. #32
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    The premise of the plastic races is the same as the plastic bb cups and plastic spacers in new shimano bb's (which do actually work). The are tolerant to misalignment. If you don't make them correctly though, the are extra crap

  33. #33
    the half breed devil
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Too tired to rack my brain on problem components. Not too tired to ask what your beef was with the Nitrider Digital Pro 2 was?
    i remember having issues with it and getting a replacement and the replacement stopped working when i rode a bike with them on it to work in the rain.

    niterider told me they weren't designed for use in the rain.

    that's too bad; when the digital pro 12 worked, it worked wonderfully. (in its era)

  34. #34
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    Agree on those green sidewall Geax's ,down right scary . Richey head sets from the late eighties .Latex tubes ,what a waste of money. Nuke proof rear hub from the early nineties .

  35. #35
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    The Noleen Mega-Air front fork...that was a waste of money.

    Although, the OP is right, Onza Pedals and Digital Prol lights were bad too.

  36. #36
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    Tioga twin tail spyder saddle. Looked so cool. Weighed so little.

    It's really just a scrotum-grater.

    It tore my keister up so badly I had to take serious time off the bike. Such rawness and pain!

    I still have it in my man cave because it looks so bad ass. Too bad it's choked up with chunks of my ass.

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  37. #37
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    Thumbs down:
    Onza HO clipless pedals
    Girvin Flex Stem- always blew out the skateboard truck purposed elastomers
    Cannondale frames- "Crackandfail"- always cracked underneath where the down
    tube joined the head tube. Still can't figure why Cannondale grind down their welds
    Scott Shocks-first generation was just a spring with an elastomer bumper

  38. #38
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    Juicy brakes, totally sucked.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by connolm View Post
    Tioga twin tail spyder saddle. Looked so cool. Weighed so little.

    It's really just a scrotum-grater.

    It tore my keister up so badly I had to take serious time off the bike. Such rawness and pain!

    I still have it in my man cave because it looks so bad ass. Too bad it's choked up with chunks of my ass.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    I have cheap Chinese knock-offs of those on several of my road bikes. But I've never tried one on a mountain bike and I don't plan to.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    i remember having issues with it and getting a replacement and the replacement stopped working when i rode a bike with them on it to work in the rain.

    niterider told me they weren't designed for use in the rain.

    that's too bad; when the digital pro 12 worked, it worked wonderfully. (in its era)
    I was just curious because I have a brand new Nitrider Digital Pro 12 still in the box. Never used it, I only bought it because of the killer deal with a bike shop going out of business back in the day. I know itís rated at the top of lights for back then. The battery is obviously toast by now and too big anyway. The old battery style that was as big as a water bottle and fit in a water bottle cage. Niterider is a San Diego company. When I lived there I called and they said it can be converted to a more modern battery setup. I plan on doing that and getting it going. Iím sure itís bright enough to get me down the mountain.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arebee View Post
    Continental Mountain King tires about 4-5 years ago.

    They claimed to be tubeless, but could hold the sealant. They were notorious for that.

    Set up with tubes, they would pinch flat even at bulletproof PSI.
    I had Continentals years ago. Basically a XC tire and had weak sidewalls for the terrain I ride. After ripping two sidewalls I ditched them and never went back.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUP-TON View Post
    Formula Brakes, dont remember the model, new rear brake leaked all the fluid on a techie downhill and almost killed me.
    Lol
    I had Formula hydro disc brakes. This was way back in 2000, the era when hydro discs first launched. What a pain the arse those were. Always going out of true, I had to shim the calipers almost weekly to keep them from rubbing. The modulation was short of stellar as well. Ditched them and went to HOPE. Been running them ever since with never an adjustment and never a rub. Amazing modulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    Kenda Small Block 8-Slow as an all mountain tire with none of the grip.
    I ran Kenda Nevagals for awhile. Pretty sure I crashed due to wash out with those tires more than any other set. Like riding on ice in loose dry conditions.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I was just curious because I have a brand new Nitrider Digital Pro 12 still in the box. Never used it, I only bought it because of the killer deal with a bike shop going out of business back in the day. I know itís rated at the top of lights for back then. The battery is obviously toast by now and too big anyway. The old battery style that was as big as a water bottle and fit in a water bottle cage. Niterider is a San Diego company. When I lived there I called and they said it can be converted to a more modern battery setup. I plan on doing that and getting it going. Iím sure itís bright enough to get me down the mountain.
    Does the Digital Pro 12 have the HID bulb? I had an older Niterider light with the HID bulb. The buld was unbelievably delicate and ridiculously expensive to replace.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I never met a grip shifter I didn't hate
    Never had them but rode a buddies bike with them. I never understood how one could keep from ghost shifting over rough terrain. Plus, too bulky of a feel on the hands in my opinion. I know the shorty version is better but still a weird feeling to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Schwable tires.
    Yep. $90 for a Magic Mary. Cornering lugs began ripping off on ride # 1. Never again.

  47. #47
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    I'm a Gripshift fan. I can't say that I've had a ghost shift in the 25+ years I've used them. The shifters have always been reliable for me going back to the 7 & 8 speed stuff.

  48. #48
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    Does this thread allow for rebuttal??? Some of my personal favs are listed herein!?!? Ouch!

    Horses for courses, of course... and I respect everyone's opinion... but I loves me those Schwalbe Tires! New England technical singletrack. That gummy compound sticks to rock. And my RoRo's are light!

    And why the hate for Gripshift? I just paid extra money to put gripshift on my new Ripmo. Love it. Simple twist rather than all that clicking. Flicking. Pulling. Triggering. Whatev.

    Loving this thread. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Celebrate our diversity. Keep 'em coming!

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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Does the Digital Pro 12 have the HID bulb? I had an older Niterider light with the HID bulb. The buld was unbelievably delicate and ridiculously expensive to replace.
    Iím not sure, It is a two bulb setup. After your response I dug through the Internet. Couldnít find anything saying yay or nah on that. Iíll have to dig it out of storage soon and check it out in person. Cool light system though even though itís old tech. If I remember right I think it was close to $400. I paid like $130 for it on a out of business bike shop sale. Iíve really got my moneyís worth having never used it all these years.

    https://www.rei.com/product/717069/n...lcd-bike-light
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    Haha...I had one and actually liked it overall...aside from it's super spooky downhill handling. I had a lot of success racing that bike, and didn't know what I was missing until I switched to a Scott Scale, which handled much better.
    It was so stiff, top tube was too short, handling was just (for me) all around vague and spooky.

    I built it as a superlight single speed and never felt confident on it.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Iím not sure, It is a two bulb setup. After your response I dug through the Internet. Couldnít find anything saying yay or nah on that. Iíll have to dig it out of storage soon and check it out in person. Cool light system though even though itís old tech. If I remember right I think it was close to $400. I paid like $130 for it on a out of business bike shop sale. Iíve really got my moneyís worth having never used it all these years.

    https://www.rei.com/product/717069/n...lcd-bike-light
    My light had a single bulb, but it looked similar to the light in the REI link you posted. Thankfully, it only had a single bulb. I'd hate to replace 2 of those. I seem to remember they were $60+.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I still remember falling into thornbushes near Kirkwood because my Onza HO pedals wouldn't release.
    I fell over at a stop sign at a fairly busy intersection because the d*mn elastomers on those Onza pedals had stiffened up in the cold. One of my non-riding buddies saw me trying to get up with both feet still clipped in. He still laughs at me from time to time for that.

  53. #53
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    Onza HO Pedals - non-release

    MAVIC CrossMax SL rear wheels (26" and 29") - constant freehub re-builds

    Kenda Slant 6 and Small Block 8 - rotten for trail riding. (Those same tires make a pretty good gravel tire, though)

    Continental Race Kings - I usually like these a lot and still ride them on a couple of current bikes, but I got a couple from a shop going out of business a few years back and both tires had crooked treads. I seated and re-seated them a dozen times and even though the casing was straight, the tread was crooked enough that I could feel the wobble and the side knobs would hit the chainstay on the narrow clearance frame I was riding.

    XTR M970 crank - whose idea was it to spec a lightweight aluminum crank fixing bolt that was a slightly different size from the standard size they used on the XT cranks that same year and the standard size everyone else was using that year, and then discontinue that part? I had to order a replacement from the UK because I couldn't find a supplier in the US that still had one.

    XTR Rapid Rise derailleur - worked fine, but I shifted the wrong direction 50% of the time when I swtitched to that bike from one of my others, or went back to one of the others.

    Manitou Skareb fork. Super light weight, but flexed so much in corners that the front tire treads rubbed the arch between the legs.

    My Gripshift X-rays back in the mid-90's never gave me any trouble, and I still ride Schwalbe and tires today without issue. Aside from the one tread instance, Continental tires still work great for me.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Shimano Deore U-brakes (circa '89).
    I have this on my '88 SJ. Never had a problem but there was practically never any mud where I rode.

    Quote Originally Posted by MudderNutter View Post
    Maxxis Ardent 2.4
    Hol' up. I love this on the front of my rigid 29er.
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  55. #55
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    E13 dropper post - seals donít do a damn thing
    Crankbrothers pedals - crunchy bearings within weeks
    Specialized Roval rims - so soft
    I like bikes

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    XTR M970 crank - whose idea was it to spec a lightweight aluminum crank fixing bolt that was a slightly different size from the standard size they used on the XT cranks that same year and the standard size everyone else was using that year, and then discontinue that part? I had to order a replacement from the UK because I couldn't find a supplier in the US that still had one.
    Yep, I had that same crankset. Sweet set until you have to replace a ring. You couldnít change out just a ring. I ended up pulling the XTR crankset off and reinstalling my used XT set from the same year just to get by.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  57. #57
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    Some of these are pretty obvious:

    Rim brakes offroad

    cheap Avid mechanical disk brakes offroad (even Shimano mechanicals can't stop on a 10% decline, as I've found out the hard way)

    45-50 lb steel bikes offroad (ever had a steel bike hit you in the shin after a crash? it hurts about 5 times as bad as aluminum for about 50 items as long, feels like someone just took a baseball bat to your shin)

    WTB Nanos --- lasted all of 250 miles. As opposed to two Maxxis DHF tires I bought over two years ago that are STILL going after 1800+ miles, now both on the back.

    Plastic grip shifters --- lol. Why even bother to remember those. I broke both of them within 300 miles. Happily threw that bike in the disposal bin.

    7-speed Tourney Rear Derailleur. Very snappy shifting, as in you hear a loud SNAP every time you shift.

    26 x 1.95 tires offroad. They measure 25.5 inches high. A pebble could hold them up from progressing.

    Cheap coil forks. I did actually have one that sagged really nice. It had that 'plush' feeling when it wasn't moving. It wasn't very good actually absorbing bumps, but it sure felt good sitting down on it for the first 500 miles...before of course it started leaking oil. And then partially seized down to 25mm of travel.

    630 mm handlebars. Want some drama when climbing steeper hills? Put on a narrow set of handlebars. You'll be all over the trail in no time.

    Schwalbe $26 Presta air pressure gauge. Read 5-13 psi.

    Tubolito ultralight tubes. Yes they really are ultralight, 44 grams on the scale! $38 each, one failed during the tire mount, the other on hardpack after 22 miles, and that was with sealant inside. A freewheel would last way longer offroad. $76 in the trash within a week.

    Ah, that reminds me: 14-28t 7-speed freewheels. A road biker's dream for offroad gearing. Horrible low and high-end, but otherwise hey, great middle cadence, which is so important...whatever. I don't get all of these posters saying the new wide-range cassettes are so terrible for spacing and cadence. OK man, go back to a triple chainring then. You don't have to like 11-50t, you don't have to even buy that, you can go back to 11-28t for cheap. Go for it!
    40% of the population doesn't even understand what a dictatorship is. Or worse...far worse...they don't care.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    ...Rim brakes offroad

    cheap Avid mechanical disk brakes offroad (even Shimano mechanicals can't stop on a 10% decline, as I've found out the hard way)...
    I haven't had the misfortune to try many things on your list. Fortunately, at 165 lbs these two brake items have not been an issue for me. I've had some less than stellar rim brakes, but well set up XTR m-900 cantilevers, Avid V, Suntour Roller Cam, and Scott Self-Energizing rim brakes usually worked well for me in most conditions. Regarding mechanical disc brakes: I really like the Avid BB-7 mechanical disc brakes I am currently running on 5 of my bikes.
    I replaced Shimano XT m-8000 with BB-7 on one bike last year and have been pleased with the change.

  59. #59
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    some of worst components i've ever used

    Super obscure but forever memorable, for all the wrong reasons...

    Curve brand brakes (and cranks), which were OEM spec on some old Konas. I had one. I am lucky I am not dead. Single worst components I have ever used over the course of decades of biking. The brakes were next to useless. I am talking 4 finger squeezing as hard as you could to avoid careening out of control down the side of a mountain. And an exercise in futility trying to get those products from hell properly set up.

    They will haunt me forever.

    some of worst components i've ever used-screen-shot-2019-11-16-3.42.15-pm.jpg

    some of worst components i've ever used-screen-shot-2019-11-16-3.39.21-pm.jpg
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  60. #60
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    You're right about crank brothers pedals getting crunchy quickly.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  61. #61
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    some of worst components i've ever used

    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    And oh yeah, Shimano dual control...
    I had those POSs on a Stinky Primo. Seriously? Bad enough on a trail bike, but a dedicated 40+ pound freeride sled?

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    Back then, the park I rode at was all about sending it and nothing else. Berms and flow were not yet invented. Lots and lots of unintended gear changes while trying to hang on for my life. I am lucky I am still alive.
    2020 Kona Unit
    2019 Forbidden Druid
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    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon Fixed Gear

  62. #62
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    How about just lumping E13 and Crankbrothers together in the junk bin?

  63. #63
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    Anothe vote for schwalbe tires.

    The new ones too with the line in the tread... lost lugs and got my first ever ďnoticeableĒ flat that i had a stans spraying pin wheel.

    Never again.

    Also have hate sram brakes with a passion.
    Fatbike, XC bike, Gravel Bike....

  64. #64
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    IME, Schwalbe tires have their place. XC racing, as long as you don't buy the scary light paper-thin ones, they do well and roll well...but, and this is a big but, you don't run them for training, you don't run them when you are concerned about durability, etc. I've been burned by them multiple times trying to run their "am/enduro" stuff. Their business model tends to be make lighter tires than the competition by using less material...kind of like Stans rims, which ends up backfiring. I've reached a happy medium though with them as XC race tires, just only use them for XC races, then switch my wheelset back to my training one with my non-schwalbe tires.

    I'm not saying they are great, they most definitely are not, but in a few niches they do ok.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    How about just lumping E13 and Crankbrothers together in the junk bin?
    E-13 has made some redeeming products over the years. Crankbrothers, not so much.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  66. #66
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    Avid juicy brakes. Avid Elixer brakes. The antidote? Deore XT!!

    WTB Bridger tires. Three sidewall failures - the only ones I've ever had. The last replacement tire didn't hold sealant - it leaked all over the sidewall for a month. Now? Yes, I've joined the minion/rekon set and I'm more than pleased.
    My mantra: Hike, Bike, Paddle, Ski

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Some of these are pretty obvious:

    Rim brakes offroad

    cheap Avid mechanical disk brakes offroad (even Shimano mechanicals can't stop on a 10% decline, as I've found out the hard way)

    45-50 lb steel bikes offroad (ever had a steel bike hit you in the shin after a crash? it hurts about 5 times as bad as aluminum for about 50 items as long, feels like someone just took a baseball bat to your shin)

    WTB Nanos --- lasted all of 250 miles. As opposed to two Maxxis DHF tires I bought over two years ago that are STILL going after 1800+ miles, now both on the back.

    Plastic grip shifters --- lol. Why even bother to remember those. I broke both of them within 300 miles. Happily threw that bike in the disposal bin.

    7-speed Tourney Rear Derailleur. Very snappy shifting, as in you hear a loud SNAP every time you shift.

    26 x 1.95 tires offroad. They measure 25.5 inches high. A pebble could hold them up from progressing.

    Cheap coil forks. I did actually have one that sagged really nice. It had that 'plush' feeling when it wasn't moving. It wasn't very good actually absorbing bumps, but it sure felt good sitting down on it for the first 500 miles...before of course it started leaking oil. And then partially seized down to 25mm of travel.

    630 mm handlebars. Want some drama when climbing steeper hills? Put on a narrow set of handlebars. You'll be all over the trail in no time.

    Schwalbe $26 Presta air pressure gauge. Read 5-13 psi.

    Tubolito ultralight tubes. Yes they really are ultralight, 44 grams on the scale! $38 each, one failed during the tire mount, the other on hardpack after 22 miles, and that was with sealant inside. A freewheel would last way longer offroad. $76 in the trash within a week.

    Ah, that reminds me: 14-28t 7-speed freewheels. A road biker's dream for offroad gearing. Horrible low and high-end, but otherwise hey, great middle cadence, which is so important...whatever. I don't get all of these posters saying the new wide-range cassettes are so terrible for spacing and cadence. OK man, go back to a triple chainring then. You don't have to like 11-50t, you don't have to even buy that, you can go back to 11-28t for cheap. Go for it!
    Sorry to "brake" it to you, but Avid Black Op Vs on ceramic rims have more power and modulation than a lot of discs, for the application.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  68. #68
    cmg
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    Im starting to hate Tektro brakes, the front is brilliant, the rear always has a chatter and then wont brake, sometimes it doesnt chatter and then works fine, but 90% of the time it will chatter.
    Will assemble it all again today, bleed it and go for a test ride, if it chatters Im ordering Shimanos tonight
    always mad and usually drunk......

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Super obscure but forever memorable, for all the wrong reasons...

    Curve brand brakes (and cranks), which were OEM spec on some old Konas. I had one. I am lucky I am not dead. Single worst components I have ever used over the course of decades of biking. The brakes were next to useless. I am talking 4 finger squeezing as hard as you could to avoid careening out of control down the side of a mountain. And an exercise in futility trying to get those products from hell properly set up.

    They will haunt me forever.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    But you became a better rider because of them. You should be praising Curve for their less than stellar brake design.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  70. #70
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    The Nevagals probably had to be one of the worse tires Ive ever used.
    EXODUX Jeff

  71. #71
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    I'm with you. I love Schwalbe tires and like twist shifters a lot better than triggers
    EXODUX Jeff

  72. #72
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    "liking" twist shifters is all well and good... the 8 speed xrays were one of the most badly made and designed parts in recent bike history though.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmg View Post
    Im starting to hate Tektro brakes, the front is brilliant, the rear always has a chatter and then wont brake, sometimes it doesnt chatter and then works fine, but 90% of the time it will chatter.
    Will assemble it all again today, bleed it and go for a test ride, if it chatters Im ordering Shimanos tonight
    Huh. I've had Tektros on my ss for many years and they've been stellar.
    tRump is SCUM.

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  74. #74
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    Kenda ďDHĒ tires, in hindsight I should have realized that a flimsy folding tire would protect me from pinch flats every other run...riding a 40lb beast wasnít helping Iím sure.


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  75. #75
    cmg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Huh. I've had Tektros on my ss for many years and they've been stellar.
    Iike l said, the fronts are brilliant, l have 100% trust in them, the back just dont seem to wanna work for me, didnt get to test today so tomorrow is the day
    always mad and usually drunk......

  76. #76
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    Pro-Flex 856. Rock Shox Judy (cartridge based). Manitou FS TI (cartridge based). All Mavic UST tires. All Fox Talas forks.

    Most trails certified by IMBA as epic.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    "liking" twist shifters is all well and good... the 8 speed xrays were one of the most badly made and designed parts in recent bike history though.
    This is accurate.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  78. #78
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    I remember buying a carbon 100mm travel 29er fork in about 04. Can't remember the name of the company that made it. . .something with "wood" at the end of it. Those forks were stupid light and even more stupidly unreliable. They would blow out on the first hit and collapse. Nothing like doing an hour and a half long race with the front end collapsed underneath you.
    .
    I too have not so fond memories of those old Onza pedals. They were fine all summer long. Once winter came. . .
    .
    I was sent a pair of "experimental" cranks. They looked the business. Tapered Ti tubes for crank arms, welded to tubes at either end for pedals and spindle. There was no spacer to go inside the bottom bracket between the bearings, just washers to space the crank arms off the bearings to get the offset right. I'm sure you can imagine what happened the first time I tried riding with them. Locked up the crank about 10 miles into a ride. They still looked great though.
    .
    Spinergy Rex-X carbon wheels. Those wheels were always finding new and ever more impressive ways to fail each time I had them warrantied. Hub internals disintegrating? Check. Hub separating from the carbon spokes? Check. Spokes cracking? Check. Spokes catching a stick and raining carbon death down on the trail? Double check.
    .
    Magura hydraulic cantilever brakes. They worked well if you could keep them aligned. If. Of course, that never happened.
    .
    . . . . . . . .

  79. #79
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    I still have a set of Magura rim brakes, now on a beater bike, that I haven't bled in over a decade and they still work great. They've been the most functional and reliable set of brakes I've ever owned.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I still have a set of Magura rim brakes, now on a beater bike, that I haven't bled in over a decade and they still work great. They've been the most functional and reliable set of brakes I've ever owned.
    Agreed. I have a working pair that are over 20 years old and have never required a bleed. They are easily the most reliable and maintenance free brakes I have owned.

  81. #81
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    For me -

    -Rockshox stuff. It just doesn't feel good compared to Fox.

    -Fox 32 fork - too flexy.

    -Fox Fit4 damper. Still better than Rockshox, but woefully inadequate damping adjustability.

    -Maxxis tires. I've tried 3 different models (Minion, Agressor, Ardent) No more Maxxis willy wallery unpredictable steering, no feel cornering for me.

    - Crank Brothers eggbeater style pedal. While I never had any failures, I did NOT like the lack of tension adjustability, and the fact where any small pedal strike disconnected you from the pedal. Just seemed somewhat unpredictable on release.
    Last edited by DethWshBkr; 11-18-2019 at 09:36 AM.
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  82. #82
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    Lithium polymer batteries in bike lights.

    If you run bike lights, you are likely riding in the colder months where the sun goes down early. You can't design a lighting product that uses a battery that effectively stops working below freezing - even if you're from Australia!

    My knog mini blinders last 2-3 hours when its warm, 2-3 minutes when its -10C.

    So, for me, that qualifies as a bad product.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Lithium polymer batteries in bike lights.

    If you run bike lights, you are likely riding in the colder months where the sun goes down early. You can't design a lighting product that uses a battery that effectively stops working below freezing - even if you're from Australia!

    My knog mini blinders last 2-3 hours when its warm, 2-3 minutes when its -10C.

    So, for me, that qualifies as a bad product.
    Err, I ride all winter in Alaska, which means a hell of a lot of night. Sounds like your batteries are damaged. While run time is lower in the winter, it's not 1000% lower and I still go riding for hours at night.

    Edit: Oh, I see now. Those are not night riding lights.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I still have a set of Magura rim brakes, now on a beater bike, that I haven't bled in over a decade and they still work great. They've been the most functional and reliable set of brakes I've ever owned.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Agreed. I have a working pair that are over 20 years old and have never required a bleed. They are easily the most reliable and maintenance free brakes I have owned.
    I have a set of HOPE Minis that have been going for 17 years without a bleed. Amazing modulation and performance. Throw some pads in and keep on going.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post

    Back then, the park I rode at was all about sending it and nothing else. Berms and flow were not yet invented. Lots and lots of unintended gear changes while trying to hang on for my life. I am lucky I am still alive.
    Lol, no doubt.
    I never owned a pair but my buddies RM Slayer came with them. Everytime I hopped on his bike it was the same thought...how the hell do ride with these goofy things?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Err, I ride all winter in Alaska, which means a hell of a lot of night. Sounds like your batteries are damaged. While run time is lower in the winter, it's not 1000% lower and I still go riding for hours at night.

    Edit: Oh, I see now. Those are not night riding lights.
    I'm talking lithium polymer batteries, not lithium ion. lithium polymer is what's in most rc car battery packs and the galaxy note 7 - you know, the ones that explode? :P Their internal resistance increases dramatically when cold which makes them stop working. Most applications that use them in cold conditions place heaters inside them.

    Regular lithium ion batteries, like used in e-bike and such seem to work fine in cold.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    I'm talking lithium polymer batteries, not lithium ion. lithium polymer is what's in most rc car battery packs and the galaxy note 7 - you know, the ones that explode? :P Their internal resistance increases dramatically when cold which makes them stop working. Most applications that use them in cold conditions place heaters inside them.

    Regular lithium ion batteries, like used in e-bike and such seem to work fine in cold.
    They also didn't appear to be of the capacity and lumens that I'd use at night for riding on trails, maybe as supplementary flashers for visibility during commuting.

    The Li Ion definitely loses some, a lot of the issues are with the control units which register the battery as low/dead and automatically shut down, even when there's still juice. My light and motion light does this, it goes into "low" mode pretty fast in the cold. It'll put out light for a long time like that, but it doesn't know any better, it's not a horrible light though. My better lights have no issue with this and it doesn't seem like I get any kind of abnormally low battery life out of magicshine, cygolite, etc. lights.

    It's amazing how many lumens you can get today for decent $$$, so much different than 10+ years ago when people were hauling around nightrider motorcycle batteries or whatever with them.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    I always laugh when people talk about Crank Bros pedals blowing up. I've certainly seen blowed-up Crank Bros pedals, so I don't doubt it. But I still have a pair of Candy SL pedals from 2005 that are still on the original bearings. They don't get much use these days because I spend most of my time on platform pedals, but they were all I rode for probably 8 years.

    Worst products I've ever used were definitely elastomer forks (like Manitou Magnum and such). Late 90's and early 2000's low end stuff when I was a new rider.

    Rim brakes (cheapish OEM Tektros) on the 2003 Stumpjumper FSR Comp that I had. My previous bike had rim brakes that worked fine, but rim brakes on THAT bike were terrifying. I rode it ONCE with those rim brakes and promptly replaced them with Magura Julie hydro discs.

    Aluminum hardtail frames in general in the 90's and early 2000's. So stiff and so punishing. Combined with an elastomer fork, it's a wonder I was able to enjoy mountain biking. But, I was young with a forgiving body, I suppose. But after that, a short travel full suspension bike was a revelation.

    I have to agree that the Shimano dual control levers were terrible. Pushing up with the back of my hand to shift? Ugh. I didn't like rapid rise, but that was because normal rise was deeply ingrained. I could have adapted if necessary, but owning multiple bikes with a mix of rapid rise and normal rise? Nope, that definitely wouldn't allow for that adaptation. But the dual control levers were just a bad idea from the start.

    I got my hands on a vintage mtb with Kooka cranks and some of the other parts people are describing here. My sister wanted me to sell it off for her and get some actual money for it. It was too big for either of us to actually ride. Cool with the matchy-matchy blue ano everywhere, though I could never figure out who made the frame.

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    Worst bike product I ever used was the original Look MTB pedals... They look like SPD
    but with a bigger cleat, so of course they aren't compatible.

    https://ebay.us/juUHTC

    Somehow they managed to be hard to get into, easy to pop out of accidentally, and impossible to get out of when you wanted to.

    I quickly switched to SPD and it was a revelation to have pedals that actually worked the way they were supposed to.

  90. #90
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    Sticky Sram guide brakes

    Schwalbe tires

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    For me -

    -Rockshox stuff. It just doesn't feel good compared to Fox.
    .
    i just the opposite. Love my Pike. Never had a Fox that worked as well for me, not matter how much I tried adjusting.

    Just about everything else owned by SRAM I hate and won't use, but love my rockshox

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Super obscure but forever memorable, for all the wrong reasons...

    Curve brand brakes (and cranks), which were OEM spec on some old Konas. I had one. I am lucky I am not dead. Single worst components I have ever used over the course of decades of biking. The brakes were next to useless. I am talking 4 finger squeezing as hard as you could to avoid careening out of control down the side of a mountain. And an exercise in futility trying to get those products from hell properly set up.

    They will haunt me forever.

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    Ha! I'd have to agree with you there. Had those on my 96 Sex One. Brakes didn't do their job & the crank tapers would distort if you looked at them cross eyed. I can remember pulling them off by hand & inserting soda can shims in to try & get them to work properly.
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  93. #93
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    Worst fork I have had in my life was a circa 1995 Manitou elastomer fork of some kind. Wow, was it a POS. It had pink elastomers, as well as other elastomers of a different colour and stiffness. It didnít matter which ones I tried. That fork was a steaming pile of dog poo. It was like riding a rigid, but with a huge weight penalty.

    All that changed when I discovered Speed Springs. Holy shit! I remember my first ride. I was so stoked I hit a kicker doing Mach 7 and when I landed, my fork compressed and then threw me over the bars. I didnít care. I was just so happy to find some plushness up front, even though it was 100% undamped. Like a pogo stick.

    Those Speed Springs rescued that POS Manitou. My goodness was that a piece of junk.
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  94. #94
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    did any of you ever use those scott unishox or whatever they were called?

    they seemed absolutely horrible but i had a friend who would build frankenmountainbikes from schwinn cruisers.

    each wheel had two sets of caliper brakes and he'd run two levers on each side of the bar.

    this, he said, made riding his bikes "like playing his bass". (he was pretty good at both)

    i kid you not.

    this is the guy who showed me most of the trails i know in golden gate park, mind you.

  95. #95
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Sram guide brakes - came on my wife's bike and in the sun the lever will not release so you have a stuck caliper

    Egg beaters - had these on all my bikes - blown up a set on a road bike! broken many sets if I ever had a pedal strike. They would release you on a pedal strike too! Went through 3 sets in a winter before giving up.

    Small block 8 - No traction in loose

    Avid XX brakes - try to bleed these by following the video

    Schwalbe tires - I've destroyed many of these. Once I cut one riding on a gravel fire road that's very well traveled by cars. Lasted 3 miles into the ride! It was a brand new tire.

    Continental tires - pinch flatted these tubeless tires and they became unrepairable. I love the grip in the wet with these tires though. Run pressures higher! I've never had this issue with other brands.

    Nevegal - the rolling resistance is insane.. I know DJ likes them though!

    Stans tires - we ran out of tubes on a 10 mile group ride

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    IME, Schwalbe tires have their place. XC racing, as long as you don't buy the scary light paper-thin ones, they do well and roll well...but, and this is a big but, you don't run them for training, you don't run them when you are concerned about durability, etc. I've been burned by them multiple times trying to run their "am/enduro" stuff. Their business model tends to be make lighter tires than the competition by using less material...kind of like Stans rims, which ends up backfiring. I've reached a happy medium though with them as XC race tires, just only use them for XC races, then switch my wheelset back to my training one with my non-schwalbe tires.

    I'm not saying they are great, they most definitely are not, but in a few niches they do ok.
    This is very true. Buy the snakeskin too!

  97. #97
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    For me the old school Shimano Altus or Acera cantilever brakes were horrible. It was a hassle to set them up right with the proper toe-in and cable length. I always got rid of the stock Shimano cable hanger and used a third party one in its place that allowed a bolt to clamp down on the wire, thus keeping the pull on both sides equal.

    Lately for me it's been my fork. Yeah, I know it's low end, it's a SR Suntour fork, but man this thing must way close to 6 pounds. At least the lockout works well.

    Get what you pay for.

    And if we are talking about frames, mine has that internal cable routing. PITA changing housings.
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  98. #98
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    No weigh, dude!
    tRump is SCUM.

    Hogan Lake blog. A section of Hogan Lake trails here.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    did any of you ever use those scott unishox or whatever they were called?
    Yes and they were horrible. I would have to re-grease them just about every fourth ride just so they would move. When I bought them there were only two choices for suspension forks, those and the Rock Shox RS-1. I couldn't afford the RS-1 so guess what I ended up with.
    Change begins by doing something different.

  100. #100
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    Another vote for elastomer forks. Sure, that was just about all we had in the 1980's, but yeah... yuck. At least in the Texas heat they stayed somewhat soft.

    Two runner ups for me... bar ends and suspension stems...
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

  101. #101
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    Toe clips and straps. What were we thinking?
    I brake for stinkbugs

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by connolm View Post
    And why the hate for Gripshift? I just paid extra money to put gripshift on my new Ripmo. Love it. Simple twist rather than all that clicking. Flicking. Pulling. Triggering. Whatev.
    I always loved grip shift too.

    Anyone who wonders how to not shift over rough terrain better not ever try to ride a motocross bike. Much lighter twist, on the entire grip, controlling 60 hp motors over some of the toughest terrain around. That said, I've seen some "whisky throttles" where people have lost throttle control!

    But, it's not hard to not shift over rough terrain at all.

  103. #103
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    Tesla shatter proof glass
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Tesla shatter proof glass
    do you think someone got fired over that?

    it was funny that musk wanted to double down and the assistant asked him if he was sure.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I always loved grip shift too.

    Anyone who wonders how to not shift over rough terrain better not ever try to ride a motocross bike. Much lighter twist, on the entire grip, controlling 60 hp motors over some of the toughest terrain around. That said, I've seen some "whisky throttles" where people have lost throttle control!

    But, it's not hard to not shift over rough terrain at all.
    i never had a problem with gripshift. i guess i got away from it when sram stopped pushing it. i still have some bikes with grip shift.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    do you think someone got fired over that?
    The whole truck?
    Yeah, probably Doc from 1985.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    The whole truck?
    Yeah, probably Doc from 1985.
    as product fails go, its up there... not as bad as gripshift xrays though.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    as product fails go, its up there... not as bad as gripshift xrays though.
    Lol, right you are.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    The whole truck?
    Yeah, probably Doc from 1985.
    i wonder who forgot to put the smash-proof glass in. the steel balls were supposed to bounce off with no damage. apparently the stainless steel body panels resisted damage though.

    and - yeah - very much Delorean-inspired styling. i guess the designs of both were drug induced?

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    i wonder who forgot to put the smash-proof glass in. the steel balls were supposed to bounce off with no damage. apparently the stainless steel body panels resisted damage though.

    and - yeah - very much Delorean-inspired styling. i guess the designs of both were drug induced?
    Given how he has publicly excoriated his employees one can't help but wonder if that was a set up. He's a smart man and doubtful that was a trial run on the world stage for all to see.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Given how he has publicly excoriated his employees one can't help but wonder if that was a set up. He's a smart man and doubtful that was a trial run on the world stage for all to see.
    intersting take.

  112. #112
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    not a major downturn today. he's just having a good time.

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  113. #113
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    Bullet Brothers Zzyzx fork...


  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Toe clips and straps. What were we thinking?
    People against bikers trying to get them to all commit suicide
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    i guess the designs of both were drug induced?
    You don't say......



    some of worst components i've ever used-75402112_2897408193616564_7101573792228442112_n.png.jpg
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Toe clips and straps. What were we thinking?
    I loved clips and straps.

    I'ii add anything I've sent to Push to this list.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    You don't say......



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  118. #118
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    ^^I can get on board with that, as long as it doesn't have grip shifters.
    Kind of like playing an electric drum kit

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    i wonder who forgot to put the smash-proof glass in. the steel balls were supposed to bounce off with no damage. apparently the stainless steel body panels resisted damage though.

    and - yeah - very much Delorean-inspired styling. i guess the designs of both were drug induced?
    Broken glass. I remember a tale from the aircraft industry. The the British aerospace industry was just developing newer jet airliners (after the comet). They were having issues with birds breaking the windscreens and asked NASA for advice on how to test windscreens.

    Well, the NASA folks told them that they just bought frozen chickens at the supermarket and fired them out of a compressed air cannon at about 600 mph. The Brits had no luck with their windscreens and asked NASA for advice.

    NASA replied with three words: "Thaw the chickens"

    True or not? Either way its a good tale.
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    Broken glass. I remember a tale from the aircraft industry. The the British aerospace industry was just developing newer jet airliners (after the comet). They were having issues with birds breaking the windscreens and asked NASA for advice on how to test windscreens.

    Well, the NASA folks told them that they just bought frozen chickens at the supermarket and fired them out of a compressed air cannon at about 600 mph. The Brits had no luck with their windscreens and asked NASA for advice.

    NASA replied with three words: "Thaw the chickens"

    True or not? Either way its a good tale.
    Iím going to go with true just because people in general have no common sense especially in high up engineering positions. That, and it makes me feel better as a mere mortal knowing thatís what should be done for such a test.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I loved clips and straps.

    I'ii add anything I've sent to Push to this list.
    I profess no love for clips & straps, but for road at the time that was all there was. Thankgoodness clipless tech came about soon after i started riding off road.
    Latex tubes sucked. When they failed, which was quickly, they failed massively. Have i not learned my lesson? i just bought a couple of those expensive tubolito tubes to try....
    Ringle skewers. At the time they were the pimp thing, i still have them around, but they didnt work well. The Salsas were/are way better.
    Railless saddles. It was neat, but i bent all the ones ii had, and im a lightweight. The other alternative saddle, those i beam saddles arent much better, heavy and harsh!
    Hey; i like bar ends, the old school mtb i have still has a set.
    I rode a pogo stick Quadra, it was ok for what i was doing, trials! I ventuallly bent it though.
    Old school plastic pedals, the super cheap ones. Holy crap those sucked! Didnt use those for long!

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by be1 View Post
    i wonder who forgot to put the smash-proof glass in. the steel balls were supposed to bounce off with no damage.

    I think that would have been a very high order.

    However, it still was impressive that the glass broke like it did.

    Throw a steel ball at normal side windows, and they shatter. That steel shot never went through. Still not what they wanted, but impressive
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I loved clips and straps.

    Well you're in luck because they still make them.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    Broken glass. I remember a tale from the aircraft industry. The the British aerospace industry was just developing newer jet airliners (after the comet). They were having issues with birds breaking the windscreens and asked NASA for advice on how to test windscreens.

    Well, the NASA folks told them that they just bought frozen chickens at the supermarket and fired them out of a compressed air cannon at about 600 mph. The Brits had no luck with their windscreens and asked NASA for advice.

    NASA replied with three words: "Thaw the chickens"

    True or not? Either way its a good tale.
    I vote true.

    Birds that planes encounter in flight are not frozen!
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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I think that would have been a very high order.

    However, it still was impressive that the glass broke like it did.

    Throw a steel ball at normal side windows, and they shatter. That steel shot never went through. Still not what they wanted, but impressive
    Any laminated glass would have stopped those balls - like the front windshield. Side windows are tempered and designed to be smashable like a gripshift xray in an emergency (I think its actually the law here). Just one more thing that baffles me about the entire presentation.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    I vote true.

    Birds that planes encounter in flight are not frozen!
    Depends on the altitude :P

    I've seen what happens when a sparrow hits a 757 engine on take off. They don't need to be frozen to do serious damage.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Depends on the altitude :P

    I've seen what happens when a sparrow hits a 757 engine on take off. They don't need to be frozen to do serious damage.
    Itís the beak and 1/32Ē claws that cause the most carnage.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Any laminated glass would have stopped those balls - like the front windshield. Side windows are tempered and designed to be smashable like a gripshift xray in an emergency (I think its actually the law here). Just one more thing that baffles me about the entire presentation.
    Agreed, I watched the video again and it's difficult to say what their expectations were. A quick Google search tells me there's glass on the market now that can stop a .50 round from a desert eagle. So certainly products that would've stood up to the ball if that was what they were after. Comical if a dumb impromptu oversight just cost him 780 million or whatever %6 was. Stockholders must me thrilled.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I always loved grip shift too.

    Anyone who wonders how to not shift over rough terrain better not ever try to ride a motocross bike. Much lighter twist, on the entire grip, controlling 60 hp motors over some of the toughest terrain around. That said, I've seen some "whisky throttles" where people have lost throttle control!

    But, it's not hard to not shift over rough terrain at all.
    Agreed. I still use my 9 speed grip shift. I grew up on a moto too.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Itís the beak and 1/32Ē claws that cause the most carnage.
    It's just mass x velocity, being soft and squishy or hard as a rock ultimately doesn't matter "much". It tore a hole in the aluminium leading edge...

    A co worker also hit an A320 wing with his truck... but that's another topic. :P

    Mythbusters did one of their first episodes on the chicken cannon thing. They also shot a ping pong ball through 1/4" plywood at mach 1 in a much later episode.

    Basically, try not to hit things with a plane :P

  131. #131
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    Anyone miss Biospace chainrings?
    My Bike: '18 Giant Talon 3 29er
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  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Anyone miss Biospace chainrings?
    i was new to mountain biking when my bike had those; i didn't care one way or the other...

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    It's just mass x velocity, being soft and squishy or hard as a rock ultimately doesn't matter "much". It tore a hole in the aluminium leading edge...

    A co worker also hit an A320 wing with his truck... but that's another topic. :P

    Mythbusters did one of their first episodes on the chicken cannon thing. They also shot a ping pong ball through 1/4" plywood at mach 1 in a much later episode.

    Basically, try not to hit things with a plane :P



    And now, back to regularly scheduled program.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post



    And now, back to regularly scheduled program.
    Fuuuuuuuuuu...

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post



    And now, back to regularly scheduled program.
    Sucked inside, but not through, his helmet lodged in the intake thankfully and he lived. Anyone who has actually been sucked through an engine core did not live, as it's a meat-grinder in there. It's possible (and has probably happened) one could get sucked through the bypass air of a modern turbofan with a helmet, break off some of the fan blades and get thrown out the back..and live.

    The frozen chicken shoot story has existed in aviation in many various forms, as seen here. AFAIK, it was a real story, but the actual players seem to change every time I read it, Nasa and UK, FAA and someone else, Piper Aircraft, GE and PW, etc.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    It's possible (and has probably happened) one could get sucked through the bypass air of a modern turbofan with a helmet, break off some of the fan blades and get thrown out the back..and live.
    If the helmet was made from 1/2" aermet and he had body armour to match... even then I'm going no.. :P

    Something most people don't know about many turbo jet engines, like the one in the video, is that there is a static variable vane set of blades in front of everything, so, (on the ground at least) you'd just smack your head into that, and not actually make it into the engine even if you made it through the ducting.

    I bet the guy that designed the gripshift xrays wishes he got sucked into a jet engine.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Sucked inside, but not through, his helmet lodged in the intake thankfully and he lived. Anyone who has actually been sucked through an engine core did not live, as it's a meat-grinder in there. It's possible (and has probably happened) one could get sucked through the bypass air of a modern turbofan with a helmet, break off some of the fan blades and get thrown out the back..and live.

    The frozen chicken shoot story has existed in aviation in many various forms, as seen here. AFAIK, it was a real story, but the actual players seem to change every time I read it, Nasa and UK, FAA and someone else, Piper Aircraft, GE and PW, etc.
    Yes, itís funny because in some clips of this very old scene itís not described in such detail as it is in this one. Some clips make it sound like he went right through it. I just thought it an appropriate fit for the chicken story.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Some clips make it sound like he went right through it.
    Yup...I remember seeing it and hearing that years ago, then started thinking about "well, how then is that possible?". Then I filed it away, until my aircraft accident investigation course at the university...then it was "oooh", when explained and the real backstory provided (by USCG accident investigator). We also saw the results (photos) of a few people who DID get sucked into an engine core...There wasn't much left.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  139. #139
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    so everyone is fine with the reverb and crank bros wheels?

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I loved clips and straps.

    I'ii add anything I've sent to Push to this list.
    Oddly enough, I never had any real problems with them either. Somehow I managed to adapt.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  141. #141
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    1. Rockshox Indy fork that was so spindly it was difficult to steer and had no real suspension properties.

    2. Rockshox Duke fork that had no functioning rebound and would try to fling me off the trail at every bump.

    3. Rockshox Pike RC (2015), so much damping that it was like riding a rigid fork, but with a lot more weight.

    FWIW, all of these crappy forks were replaced by significantly better performing Marzocchi's.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mas2 View Post
    so everyone is fine with the reverb and crank bros wheels?
    I'm perfectly fine with not having them on my bike.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mas2 View Post
    so everyone is fine with the reverb and crank bros wheels?
    my reverb is working OK, even though i've heard bad things about them. i had it serviced after a year.

  144. #144
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    Novatec Hubs.
    Weinmann HL-80 fatbike rims.
    Anything Stan's.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  145. #145
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    Continental Mountain King tires. Ruined two in 3 months of AZ desert riding. The sidewalls are so stiff that they don't give when side-loaded by a rock, so they split and fail. Worst MTB tires I've ever had.
    Please donate to IMBA or your local IMBA chapter. It's trail karma.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    3. Rockshox Pike RC (2015), so much damping that it was like riding a rigid fork, but with a lot more weight.
    I have still mine. It's on a spare bike with half the shim stack removed. I never liked it. Replaced the Pike with a Mattoc after spending a year trying to get it to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    my reverb is working OK, even though i've heard bad things about them. i had it serviced after a year.
    Mine worked fine until it didn't. Serviced, then a year later required a full rebuild. The following year it died again. Replaced with Manitou Jack.
    The thing that drove me nuts with my Reverb was the plunger remote. It was fine for 90% of the time, but during the very rare race I'd do, I'd get so tired towards the end that I couldn't push it down, had to use my whole hand!

  147. #147
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    Early Grip Shift, I absolutely hated it. The stationary part of the grip was really thick and narrow forcing my hands on the moving part which resulted in unwanted shifting at the worst possible times. Going to more comfortable stationary grips put my brake levers out of a comfortable reach and limited space on the bars for anything that I might have wanted to add.
    Early Rock Shox Judy forks were like riding on jello and that was in my pre-clydesdale days.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYINW View Post
    Early Grip Shift, I absolutely hated it. The stationary part of the grip was really thick and narrow forcing my hands on the moving part which resulted in unwanted shifting at the worst possible times. Going to more comfortable stationary grips put my brake levers out of a comfortable reach and limited space on the bars for anything that I might have wanted to add.
    Early Rock Shox Judy forks were like riding on jello and that was in my pre-clydesdale days.
    That almost sounds like the gripshift halfpipes, which were significantly after the first versions/x-rays. The worst part about the first generations IMO was the excessive slop that developed quickly. It wouldn't have been hard to make aluminum "teeth", but it was just cheap plastic that got sloppy as hell.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  149. #149
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    Survivorship bias -

    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    Broken glass. I remember a tale from the aircraft industry. The the British aerospace industry was just developing newer jet airliners (after the comet). They were having issues with birds breaking the windscreens and asked NASA for advice on how to test windscreens.

    Well, the NASA folks told them that they just bought frozen chickens at the supermarket and fired them out of a compressed air cannon at about 600 mph. The Brits had no luck with their windscreens and asked NASA for advice.

    NASA replied with three words: "Thaw the chickens"

    True or not? Either way its a good tale.
    *Missing bullet holes and surviving mutual funds- the missing logic;

    https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-...g-664e708cfc3d
    "Before you criticize, you should walk a mile in their shoes. You'll be a mile away from them and you have their shoes"

  150. #150
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    Its funny that people thrash early Gripshift. I was an early adopter of the Xray and thought it was pretty revolutionary for its time. I still have two sets.
    I think the problem was when you used Gripshift shifters with Shimano. Shimano tried really hard( and successfully) to make their components not work with Gripshift.
    EXODUX Jeff

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Its funny that people thrash early Gripshift. I was an early adopter of the Xray and thought it was pretty revolutionary for its time. I still have two sets.
    I think the problem was when you used Gripshift shifters with Shimano. Shimano tried really hard( and successfully) to make their components not work with Gripshift.
    The first GS stuff was indexed to shimano, but due to the relatively small cable pull, it made the slop problem that much worse, magnifying it compared to what came next. Going to their 1:1 (which wasn't exactly 1:1, but close enough for marketing I guess) they were able to "buy time" before the shifter became a slop mess, but the original problem, lack of precision parts, still existed. The "teeth" would wear down.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Its funny that people thrash early Gripshift.

    While working in shops back then I spent a lot more time trying to make gripshifty work than Shimano even though most of the bikes I worked on were Shimano equipped. I guess I never was a fan.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That almost sounds like the gripshift halfpipes, which were significantly after the first versions/x-rays. The worst part about the first generations IMO was the excessive slop that developed quickly. It wouldn't have been hard to make aluminum "teeth", but it was just cheap plastic that got sloppy as hell.
    It might have been halfpipes. They were the shifters that were spec'd on my 94 Specialized Rockhopper. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. I went to Shimano LX rapid fire shifters and have stuck with Shimano ever since.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYINW View Post
    It might have been halfpipes. They were the shifters that were spec'd on my 94 Specialized Rockhopper. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. I went to Shimano LX rapid fire shifters and have stuck with Shimano ever since.
    funny thing is, the sachs grip shifters i tried way back when were not so bad but my memory might be clouded by any number of factors.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Depends on the altitude :P

    I've seen what happens when a sparrow hits a 757 engine on take off. They don't need to be frozen to do serious damage.
    Some engines are quite robust. When I was working at Pratt and Whitney, an electrician left a 12' aluminum step ladder in a test cell after hooking up test equipment to a JT9 D7 ready for final testing. He came back a couple of hours later and his ladder was nowhere to be seen. The engine was shut down and inspected in detail. The only sign of the ladder was aluminum scrapings on the fan blades. Later, Pratt used this incident in an ad.
    My mantra: Hike, Bike, Paddle, Ski

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