Shimano Dual Control- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Shimano Dual Control

    So judging by what I have seen so far on the new bikes this year I think Shimano's DC may be a thing of the past. What do you think?
    My Bike: '19 Liv Tempt 2
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  2. #2
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    Lets hope so!

  3. #3
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    I sure hope so, too. it always felt awkward in my hands and I never wanted to use it. rapidfire shifters have always worked fine.

  4. #4
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    i have the old 965 xtr on my scott and love them. if you have a set and want to throw them out let me know ill takem!

  5. #5
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    I used lx dual control for years and loved them too. Some people can get used to them, others cant. I hope they dont phase them out, be a pity to see them go as an option. If anyone has any they hate please send them my way or to superspec, we wont mind

  6. #6
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    I thought Shimano only made Dual Control for a year or two.

    It was there biggest flop!!

  7. #7
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    if im not mistaking they still had them for the 970 group as well. i life to see people hop on my bike and they are like how do you change gears. also i dont have to worry about breaking triggers.

  8. #8
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    Triggers hardly ever break. My big thing with DC is the fact that the brake lever moves up and down and that would throw me off in trusting my brakes on a descent. I like my levers to stay in one place and only move one way. It's kinda like holding on to the grips on a bike equipped with Grip shift on a uphill battle. If you had some of your hand on the Grip Shift then the Grip Shift decides to let go and you find yourself on your back looking up at the sky.
    My Bike: '19 Liv Tempt 2
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  9. #9
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    I have been MTBing for 28 years and my 960 brifters are my single favorite setup, followed by my X9 twisties. The only modern thumbies I like are Shimano barends on Paul mounts. To each his own.

  10. #10
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    I have triggers with a rapid rise der. on one bike and dc on another. I prefer the dc but not by a huge margin.

    The thing I will miss if I can't replace them is the rr der. I would have to relearn how to shift.

  11. #11
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    I have the DC's on my Gary Fisher HT, love them, they work great when the arthritis acts up on my right thumb. Took about 10 min to learn how to use but I have never had a problem with them.
    I HATE WORK, WORK IS BAD, WORK = NO BIKE, NO BIKE = NO GOOD.

  12. #12
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    I have the 970 DC, they are not a bad performer. I also have 970 trigger love them. I don't think Dual controls are bad but what shimano failed to do with the previous version (960) was to offer both. They just demanded that we use it and like it. I guess they know now that it was a big mistake, as Sram took a huge chunk out of their market share.

  13. #13
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    Switching to the dual control forced me to adopt Shimano hydraulic disc brakes. I never looked back as these brakes modulate perfectly and have been totally trouble free.
    Consciousness, that annoying time between bike rides.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lopaka
    Switching to the dual control forced me to adopt Shimano hydraulic disc brakes. I never looked back as these brakes modulate perfectly and have been totally trouble free.

    That was one thing that always pissed me off about Shimano and basically forced me over to SRAM. If you wanted to use their lever/shifter combo, you had to use their brakes. Their brakes used centerlock rotors, so you had to use their hubs. So they basically forced you into their entire setup rather than allowing you to pick and choose. That's another reason Dual Control wasn't popular... people like to run aftermarket brakes or at least have the freedom of choice to do so. Having everything integrated just sucks from that standpoint, nevermind the fact that I just never liked the feel of the shifter levers, they seemed to wonky and flimsy and sloppy.
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  15. #15
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    I think Shimano creating this dual control is inspired by the dual control on road bicycle. I agree with the comment this is the biggest flop on Shimano. And Shimano still not produce the DC for 10 speed.

    For some people DC is the biggest crap, because if you want to pull the brake lever sometimes your gear will be shift down or up..
    I dont really like this setup I prefered for grip shifter than this DC

  16. #16
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    Guys everyone here is saying that shimano dual control was their biggest flop. While that may be a matter of opinion (not mine) lets not forget one of their biggest success's came from dual control, and thats low normal shifting. Normal shimano shifting in my experience is good, but sram does this better. But with dual control, there is a valid alternative to sram that shifts incredibly well and offers the user a completely different setup no one else has. Being able to shift into a granny gear while climbing a hill under immense torque is very useful in some areas and I find it quite surprising its not more well known.

  17. #17
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    1989 hyperglide allowed high torque shifting

    I did not abuse my equipment by using it-did not want to wreck Biopace oval ring.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer
    Guys everyone here is saying that shimano dual control was their biggest flop. While that may be a matter of opinion (not mine) lets not forget one of their biggest success's came from dual control, and thats low normal shifting. Normal shimano shifting in my experience is good, but sram does this better. But with dual control, there is a valid alternative to sram that shifts incredibly well and offers the user a completely different setup no one else has. Being able to shift into a granny gear while climbing a hill under immense torque is very useful in some areas and I find it quite surprising its not more well known.
    Low normal or rapid rise is another evil from Shimano.
    My Bike: '19 Liv Tempt 2
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  19. #19
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    I'm not sure I agree with all the criticism of the dual control. For one thing, You can still mount Shimano calipers to work with 6 bolt ISO brake rotors. Also I have never accidentally shifted when I meant to brake or brake when I meant to shift. It just doesn't happen. And the ability to down shift while banging out a steep climb and at the same time posting up to stand in the pedals is an effortless sweet experience. The DC is well built and calibration of the shifter is precise and trouble free. I don't know what to think about a 10 speed set-up and the lack of a 10 speed DC. I still can't get my head around the need for a 10 speed mtb cluster.

    Also, I can't prove this, but I also believe the DCs have saved me a few broken brake levers on the semi-frequent occasions when I go down hard. Rather than breaking the lever, the impact just attempts a shift. Finally, I've run DC on my XC bike for 3 trouble free years, through 4 sets of brake pads, without needing to add fluid or bleed brakes. That, in itself, is worth a lot to me.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lopaka
    I'm not sure I agree with all the criticism of the dual control. For one thing, You can still mount Shimano calipers to work with 6 bolt ISO brake rotors. Also I have never accidentally shifted when I meant to brake or brake when I meant to shift. It just doesn't happen. And the ability to down shift while banging out a steep climb and at the same time posting up to stand in the pedals is an effortless sweet experience. The DC is well built and calibration of the shifter is precise and trouble free. I don't know what to think about a 10 speed set-up and the lack of a 10 speed DC. I still can't get my head around the need for a 10 speed mtb cluster.

    Also, I can't prove this, but I also believe the DCs have saved me a few broken brake levers on the semi-frequent occasions when I go down hard. Rather than breaking the lever, the impact just attempts a shift. Finally, I've run DC on my XC bike for 3 trouble free years, through 4 sets of brake pads, without needing to add fluid or bleed brakes. That, in itself, is worth a lot to me.

    I think the Dual control system is great for some people, hey I have it and I like it. My perception was more toward their marketing and the attempt to fully convert consumer to their system, especially with the XTR 960 line. Shimano offer so many different lines each version so their no issue with R&D and productions. They just choose not to offer anything else other than DC for the 960. It's a good system but like Jim311 said we have to go all shimano shifter/brake/DC shifting. Even Shimano admitted that it was an arrogant and stupid move.

    You are right about misshifting DC it rarely happens. and movable lever is almost crash proved, almost. I have set up 2 of my Ibis mojo with 970's one with DC and another with trigger and Magura brake. DC set up is better suit XC style and even with 180mm rotor in the front it's not the most powerful brake out there, may be that's the reason they modulate so well

  21. #21
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    I had a full XTR M960 group on an Intense 5point5. I rode it for several years and really liked the group and the dual control until I moved to the North East which has fairly rocky and rooted trails. I found I was sometimes loosing control of the bike as my hands would shift to easily on the grips, especially going downhill. I replaced them with conventional XTR shifters and levers.

    I've still got the DC levers and can't see using them. If one of you guys want them you can have them. Send me a private message.

    To me, it will be great pity if Shimano stops making low normal derailleurs. I love always shifting up with my thumb on both sides. It is just more intuitive.

    To those who don't like Center Lock disc/hubs, without a doubt it is a much better interface (with perfect disc centering) than six bolts. All the braking load is carried by the bolts. I won't buy a hub if it is not Center Lock but that just me.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I had a full XTR M960 group on an Intense 5point5. I rode it for several years and really liked the group and the dual control until I moved to the North East which has fairly rocky and rooted trails. I found I was sometimes loosing control of the bike as my hands would shift to easily on the grips, especially going downhill. I replaced them with conventional XTR shifters and levers.

    I've still got the DC levers and can't see using them. If one of you guys want them you can have them. Send me a private message.

    To me, it will be great pity if Shimano stops making low normal derailleurs. I love always shifting up with my thumb on both sides. It is just more intuitive.

    To those who don't like Center Lock disc/hubs, without a doubt it is a much better interface (with perfect disc centering) than six bolts. All the braking load is carried by the bolts. I won't buy a hub if it is not Center Lock but that just me.

    Ronnie.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlouder
    Dibs

    PM Sent.

    damn!!!!!!!!!!!


    ill pay for them

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I had a full XTR M960 group on an Intense 5point5. I rode it for several years and really liked the group and the dual control until I moved to the North East which has fairly rocky and rooted trails. I found I was sometimes loosing control of the bike as my hands would shift to easily on the grips, especially going downhill. I replaced them with conventional XTR shifters and levers.

    I've still got the DC levers and can't see using them. If one of you guys want them you can have them. Send me a private message.

    To me, it will be great pity if Shimano stops making low normal derailleurs. I love always shifting up with my thumb on both sides. It is just more intuitive.

    To those who don't like Center Lock disc/hubs, without a doubt it is a much better interface (with perfect disc centering) than six bolts. All the braking load is carried by the bolts. I won't buy a hub if it is not Center Lock but that just me.

    Ronnie.
    Damn! Me pay for them too. Got any xt or anything lying around?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    Low normal or rapid rise is another evil from Shimano.
    Your logic is failing.

  26. #26
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    My current bike has hone dual control levers. I replace the rear deraileur with a normal shifting one, and the bike brakes and shifts superbly. I love shimano brakes for power and modulation. I'm old school my bike came with hone 8 inch rotors s front and rear. I replaced them with 8" XTR rotors, no not overkill, two finger braking is real nice.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG RIDER
    My current bike has hone dual control levers. I replace the rear deraileur with a normal shifting one, and the bike brakes and shifts superbly. I love shimano brakes for power and modulation. I'm old school my bike came with hone 8 inch rotors s front and rear. I replaced them with 8" XTR rotors, no not overkill, two finger braking is real nice.
    Actually you bring up another good point that I didn't mention. Two-finger braking. Many of us are one-finger braking but Shimano DC is best with 2 finger shifting not one especially with multiple gears.

  28. #28
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    How's this? I love DC, but have plenty of first gen levers sitting around. The second gen versions just spoiled me for anything else. I think that's what killed the concept, them waiting several years, with folks making due, slowly developing a hatred for the things. They were inaccurate with any kind of crap in the cable housings, and the need to swat it for each individual shift was crummy. Add poor ergonomics, and you have a recipe for yuck.

    The 2nd version fixed all that stuff, but it was too late, the haters were out in force, and unlikely to be mollified by a greatly improved design.

    I'm stockpiling RR RD's, but strangely, I cant stand them on any of my bikes with Rapid Fires. I wanted to hate them when I first got a set on bike, I did one ride with the RR, then swapped out to a conventional RD. Figured I'd relegated the RR RD to the dust bin, but no, it was way better with the DC levers, color me surprised.....

    Also, I run Magura calipers on Shimano levers, works fine, so no, you aren't forced to run Shimano calipers, but they aren't bad either. And, as others have said, the 6 bolt rotors from anyone, work with Shimano calipers, so run whatever hubs, brakes, rotors you like, it all works.
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  29. #29
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    I don't like 'em, but it's nice to have options. Too bad they're not keeping them as an option (so long as they don't make that the ONLY option)

    I think BioPace was a bigger flop. Push/Push didn't last long either.

  30. #30
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    I love the DC as well, but I don't run them with a RapidRise derailleur. Instead I use an XT high normal rear. I really like this setup since both gear levers work the same way - push down on the lever to move to a bigger rear cog or bigger chainring and pull up (or use the thumb shift lever) to shift to a smaller rear cog or front chainring.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by trained_monkey
    I use an XT high normal rear. I really like this setup since both gear levers work the same way.
    Confused. That's what a Rapid rise RD does, push down to get harder, up to get easier, both sides....
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Confused. That's what a Rapid rise RD does, push down to get harder, up to get easier, both sides....
    What I meant was that pushing down on the lever will move the derailleur to a bigger cog (back) or chainring (front). A bigger cog obviously is an easier gear, whereas a bigger chainring is a harder gear. So when I say that the levers work the same, I'm talking about moving to bigger or smaller cogs/chainrings and not about easier or harder gearing. Does that make sense?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trained_monkey
    What I meant was that pushing down on the lever will move the derailleur to a bigger cog (back) or chainring (front). A bigger cog obviously is an easier gear, whereas a bigger chainring is a harder gear. So when I say that the levers work the same, I'm talking about moving to bigger or smaller cogs/chainrings and not about easier or harder gearing. Does that make sense?
    Gotcha, I think most folks would interpret your phrasing "work" as to imply how it impacted their experience, ie: easier or harder to pedal, as opposed to physical gear size, but regardless, I understand what you meant now
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