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  1. #1
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    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??

    I recently purchased a very expensive hard tail bike as my "dream bike". For the cost I could have purchased nearly any full suspension bike in the market with the highest spec components. I purchased a titanium hard tail 27.5+ bike Attachment 1224018 and am very happy with it. What I want to hear are the reasons why you chose to ride a hard tail for reasons other than cost, because they are generally cheaper to get into than full suspension bikes. I rarely see other hard tails out on the trails and I ride nearly every day. Unless its a fat bike, I am almost always the only rider i see on a non full suspended bike. I recently went on a longer ride with my brother and just for shits and giggles I rode one of his full suspension bikes. It was a Santa Cruz Tall Boy 29er. It was the first time I had ridden a full suspension bike in over ten years. And Ive gotta say that suspension has come a damn long way in that amount of time. I can understand why they have nearly taken over the industry as the riders bike of choice for the most part. The pedal bob that I used to experience when climbing out of the saddle has nearly been eliminated thanks to better shocks, and better suspension technology. They are much lighter as well, with a sub 25 pound large full suspension bike being not to uncommon these days. So, let me hear your reasons why you choose to ride a hard tail over a full suspension bike. Because if trends continue, Im wondering if Ill be the only guy left riding around the trails without a rear shock under my butt! Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-img_1455.jpgReason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-img_1607.jpgAttachment 1224022
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  2. #2
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    I'll buy a FS the day it's gonna be as efficient as a hard tail.
    Or when I'll get old. (52)

    I got my midlife crisis bike 4/5 ago : a custom made Ti Kocmo , with 26 wheels.
    The fit is , oh so perfect !!!!

    Nervous , fast , efficient , doesn't steer like an anchored boat.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-img_0950.jpg  

    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  3. #3
    Mantis, Paramount, Campy
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    All rigid all the time.
    Its more fun [for me].
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  4. #4
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    Seems like it would have been a good idea to try full suspension bikes in your price range before you bought the hardtail...

    It really depends on where and how you ride. If you are mainly on smooth flow trails or fast xc without a lot of rocks and roots, your hardtail is fine particularly since it's wearing plus sized tires.

    If you ride rough trails with fast descents you're going to notice a huge difference between what you have and a mid-travel full suspension trail bike. How comfortable it is, how fast you can go and maintain control, and how tired you are after the ride. There are no disadvantages to a competent full suspension bike these days, when compared to a hardtail.

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  5. #5
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    Shorter chainstays, better for pumping and popping off stuff. More connected feel. Better for standing and pedaling. Less maintenance. I just like hardtails.

  6. #6
    Not helpful.
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    Lots of threads like this already, here's one: http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...s-1090774.html
    I wouldn't even get my hair cut except it's near the liquor store and it seems like my eyebrows need trimming now and then.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fattyrider38 View Post
    I recently purchased a very expensive hard tail bike as my "dream bike". For the cost I could have purchased nearly any full suspension bike in the market with the highest spec components. I purchased a titanium hard tail 27.5+ bike Attachment 1224018 and am very happy with it. What I want to hear are the reasons why you chose to ride a hard tail for reasons other than cost, because they are generally cheaper to get into than full suspension bikes. I rarely see other hard tails out on the trails and I ride nearly every day. Unless its a fat bike, I am almost always the only rider i see on a non full suspended bike. I recently went on a longer ride with my brother and just for shits and giggles I rode one of his full suspension bikes. It was a Santa Cruz Tall Boy 29er. It was the first time I had ridden a full suspension bike in over ten years. And Ive gotta say that suspension has come a damn long way in that amount of time. I can understand why they have nearly taken over the industry as the riders bike of choice for the most part. The pedal bob that I used to experience when climbing out of the saddle has nearly been eliminated thanks to better shocks, and better suspension technology. They are much lighter as well, with a sub 25 pound large full suspension bike being not to uncommon these days. So, let me hear your reasons why you choose to ride a hard tail over a full suspension bike. Because if trends continue, Im wondering if Ill be the only guy left riding around the trails without a rear shock under my butt! Click image for larger version. 

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    They exist because people still buy them. I would love to ride a hardtail but my old back and bones wont let me on my regular trails. I still pull out the Ragley Blue Pig when I know it's going to be super smooth single track or a gravel ride.
    Beautiful bike!
    Twilight falls upon old souls darkening our skin & bone.Soon I'll follow Prudence home until then just let me chase this sun

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    There are no disadvantages to a competent full suspension bike these days, when compared to a hardtail.
    Yes , when climbing.

    I ride in roots and rocks too , probably not as fast as a pro on a FS would but:

    1 - I don't win a trophy if I arrive 2 minutes faster at the car.
    2 - I don't dislike the "Feel" of the terrain , it's kind of one of the reason I do MTB
    3 - In my head , I go very fast
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Yes , when climbing.

    I ride in roots and rocks too , probably not as fast as a pro on a FS would but:

    1 - I don't do this professionally , I'm not paid to arrive first at the car.
    2 - I don't dislike the "Feel" of the terrain , it's kind of one of the reason I do MTB
    3 - In my head , I go very fast
    You are wrong about climbing, unless it is so smooth that you could climb it on a road bike and you are comparing to a short- or mid-travel FS bike. This has also been discussed a zillion times. Any kind of technical climb will actually benefit from the rear tire's ability to maintain contact with the ground with a competent full suspension bike.

    Your 3 numbered items relate to fun. It should always be about fun. If you're having fun then there's nothing wrong with it. Hardtails can be fun, fat bikes can be fun, full suspension XC race bikes can be fun, it goes on and on.

    If you aren't enjoying the ride despite trying several bikes, then that is when something is actually wrong.

  10. #10
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    someone said "chicks love blokes on Hardtails"

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-img_20180818_181309880-1.jpg
    always mad and usually drunk......

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    You are wrong about climbing, unless it is so smooth that you could climb it on a road bike and you are comparing to a short- or mid-travel FS bike. This has also been discussed a zillion times.
    I only take to account what I experienced , not what I read on the net.

    YMMV
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  12. #12
    the discerning hooligan
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    There are no disadvantages to a competent full suspension bike these days, when compared to a hardtail.
    There is one huge disadvantage, to the point of the thread if you read it, Ö..it's not what the OP likes. There is nothing to debate here.
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  13. #13
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    Cause they are way sexier then full sus bikes. Cause they are fun. Cause pump tracks.

    Also I have 8 inches of travel in my pants.

    All reasons I want an aggressive hardtail.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    I only take to account what I experience , not what I read on the net.

    YMMV
    I have a hardtail MTB with drop bars that I ride on gravel most of the time, and now and then some technical stuff. Your assumption is flawed but it was a cute snipe.

    This is the part of the thread where people start referencing what pro XC racers are doing, when they choose their HT over their FS, how often they lockout their FS bike... yadda yadda. Pretty soon after that we get to the insults, the PMs, and the moderators telling people to chill.

  15. #15
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    I didn't try them because I knew I wouldn't want one, my own personal laundry list of reasons is long and comprehensive but the main reason was the pinion gear box that is attached to my hardtail.
    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Seems like it would have been a good idea to try full suspension bikes in your price range before you bought the hardtail...

    It really depends on where and how you ride. If you are mainly on smooth flow trails or fast xc without a lot of rocks and roots, your hardtail is fine particularly since it's wearing plus sized tires.

    If you ride rough trails with fast descents you're going to notice a huge difference between what you have and a mid-travel full suspension trail bike. How comfortable it is, how fast you can go and maintain control, and how tired you are after the ride. There are no disadvantages to a competent full suspension bike these days, when compared to a hardtail.

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  16. #16
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    I had a loaner hardtail a couple years ago when my bike was in the shop. Rode it for a week. Had a lot of fun on it. Was happy to be back on my regular (ful sus) bike when I got it back.

    The two things I noticed most, to the negative of hardtail, were I prefer the cushion on my backside from general, in the saddle riding - meaning even conditions you wouldn't normally stand for even on a hardtail were still transmitting so many more small jolts over time that eventually, they built up to bother me, and, two, on high speed descents, I like the rear suspensions ability to track the trail better for traction purposes, especially when cornering.

    But again, I had a lot of fun on the hardtail, and if that was all I had, I'd be fine with that. But full sus is better for me.

    It would be nice to not have any frame pivots or shocks to service, though.

  17. #17
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    because more bikes = better...


  18. #18
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    Nothing beats a great HT...enjoy!!
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  19. #19
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    I love having both! I am graduating college next year and I bought another FS as a gift for all of my suffering while working with the youngin's.

    I definitely love my hardtail as well. It reminds me to do things properly, not to mention they are still a blast to ride
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmg71 View Post
    someone said "chicks love blokes on Hardtails"

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    Needs a dropper post.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeedTheWolf View Post
    Needs a dropper post.


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    sorry, old pic, it has one
    always mad and usually drunk......

  22. #22
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    I can justify the cost of owning a nice hardtail or a mediocre FS bike. I ride trails on a rigid singlespeed where most other riders say they "need" FS, so going all squishy would be a downgrade to my riding experience. Yeah, I could go faster on a FS bike, but who cares?

  23. #23
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    I parted out and sold off a carbon 130/120 full sus bike to build up my *nearly* dream hardtail. I had the FS for nearly a year but a huge part of me yearned for an aggressive hardtail. It was almost inexplicable, but here are a few of my reasons:

    I live in Houston, Texas where all we have is what we can build on the banks of creeks and rivers. Even when I go to the hill country I donít mind using a hardtail. Iím not racing and if I was it would be for fun.

    I like the challenge of using body English to maintain control and traction depending on the situation.

    The simple beauty of a hardtail speaks to me. There is something elegant and wonderful in its comparitive simplicity, especially the steel one that I chose. Titanium wouldíve been better but too expensive for now.

    My friend gives me a hard time about how I sold the FS for the hardtail but while he is having pivot and real shock issues and noises, I donít have to worry about all those extra moving parts and shock tuning and maintenance.

    I know a FS is more efficient in most situations, as has been mentioned, itís about the fun.




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  24. #24
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    I have both (ht and fs). They're both fun.

  25. #25
    U sayin' Bolt ?
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    I like the solid feel of full rigid when out of the saddle and putting all kinds of body english on it. For me personally, I can head out my front door and link some fun scenic sections of chip seal, gravel and dirt. I have tried the ride with squish, but rigid is a better fit for what is in my immediate area.

    Also rigid is inexpensive ( $200 gets you a nicely dialed old school 4130 setup ) and anybody can find something to ride locally and have fun. Parks, schools, any little piece of dirt you can get on after work when it is dark and the youths are home; you can have a blast.

  26. #26
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    That is a beautiful bike Fattyrider38! I can appreciate a nice FS bike and not going to argue its benefits, but there is something about a sleek titanium HT that captures your heart. For many of us, it is all about what makes you smile.

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I can justify the cost of owning a nice hardtail or a mediocre FS bike. I ride trails on a rigid singlespeed where most other riders say they "need" FS, so going all squishy would be a downgrade to my riding experience. Yeah, I could go faster on a FS bike, but who cares?
    Nailed it Mack.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianU View Post
    That is a beautiful bike Fattyrider38!

    I agree, check out that badass custom head badge.

    Better view of it here... http://forums.mtbr.com/riding-passio...l#post13869412
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  28. #28
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    I have 2 FS bikes and 1 HT. I love my Steel HT. Currently SS running 29x3.0 rigid, but I raced it most of the with a 100mm fork and 2.35/2.2. Very fun bike. My Epic is faster and almost as efficient, but SS riding on the HT is just so much fun and on some climbs faster than my epic. My long travel FS is fun only on the right trails. Otherwise it kind of slow and heavy. And for me "long travel" is over 4".
    Joe
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  29. #29
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    Easy maintenance, no creaky creaky. If I neglected my full suspension bike as much as my hardtails, it would be a creaky worn out pile of parts by now. I hate working on my bikes so when weather & trail conditions are questionable I always take my hardtail. There's only so many hours in my day and I'm not going to spend as much time cleaning my bike after a ride as I did riding it.

  30. #30
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    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-n9rv.jpg

    My hardtail borders on embarrassing... not only is it more expensive than a decent FS bike, it also weighs about the same. So I'm not saving any coin or boosting my climbing efficiency. But I have given FS a fair try - I have a DW-link Iron Horse that I rode for a year (in OH, PA, GA, TN). I gave it to my wife. Yes, it has been awhile, and it was faster on the downs, and it actually climbed pretty well, but I like to feel the trail - not be completely insulated from it.

    It also seems like FS is always a compromise. If you have it set up to go fast and hit hard, it will be a drag in low-speed tech - and vice-versa.

    The last group ride I went on, one guy commented that I "must be really strong" to ride rigid all day. I said, contrarily, that I ride more like a wet noodle. I don't fight it.

    And all the talk about technical climbing traction or whatnot? I ride up stairs for technical climbing practice. Having a hardtail is not a disadvantage.

    Also, somewhere in the back of my mind is my recollection of seeing a bunch of enduro bros at the Mayhem Enduro with shoulder and wrist braces. While I've still had a few good crashes, I know more people who have crashed worse and been more injured due to the increased speed you get with FS. I've never felt I needed to go faster.

    -F

    PS - Of course, it's also a good excuse for going slower than everyone else...
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    I only take to account what I experienced , not what I read on the net.

    YMMV
    Years ago I bought a Niner RIP9 but after about 2 years moved all the parts back to my hardtail. The thing I liked most about the FS and still miss the most was how much better I could climb on rough trails.

    For almost everything else I have preferred the feel and had more fun on a hardtail

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    And all the talk about technical climbing traction or whatnot? I ride up stairs for technical climbing practice. Having a hardtail is not a disadvantage.

    -F
    This has also been my experience. Of course you do have to be a lot more careful with tire selection and psi but once dialed, I notice very little difference in technical climbing trail comformity between my ht and my fs.

    And my fs bobs a little bit even when locked out. People who ride fs full time wouldn't notice but if you hop on the fs right after the ht, it can feel pronounced.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladmo View Post
    It would be nice to not have any frame pivots or shocks to service, though.
    Yeah, a hardtail would be pretty nice during our slop season.

    I think Olallie really lends itself to a hardtail.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  34. #34
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    I don't ride FS because I'm old, lazy, cheap, and stupid:

    - Too old to crash at the speeds my FS bikes were enabling me to ride.
    - Too lazy to maintain the pivots, shock, etc.
    - Too cheap to spend a ton on the latest FS only to have it become obsolete with the next generation.
    - Too stupid to optimize and set up the rear suspension.

  35. #35
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    A lot of this is context. In the following video, I have a very hard time accepting that trail would be at all enjoyable on a hardtail.



    But that's at one extreme of the trail spectrum. There are a lot of trail between that and super-smooth where a hardtail can be a heap of fun.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    A lot of this is context. In the following video, I have a very hard time accepting that trail would be at all enjoyable on a hardtail.



    But that's at one extreme of the trail spectrum. There are a lot of trail between that and super-smooth where a hardtail can be a heap of fun.
    I could see having fun there on a hardtail. But it would be different than you'd ride it on a FS. You certainly aren't going to be plowing through that kind of chunk at speed on a hardtail.

  37. #37
    the discerning hooligan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I could see having fun there on a hardtail. But it would be different than you'd ride it on a FS. You certainly aren't going to be plowing through that kind of chunk at speed on a hardtail.
    I had a riding partner some years back that loved riding with me because I was inclined to seek out those sorts of trails. He was from a climbing/mountaineering background and equated riding the super techy trails with solving bouldering problems...power, balance, focus, timing, and technique....the place between trials and trail.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
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    My hardtail borders on embarrassing... not only is it more expensive than a decent FS bike, it also weighs about the same.

    How much does it weigh?
    "A $1700 bike is not fit to be hucked from a curb"
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    because more bikes = better...
    Agree 100%

    I like my HT, if for nothing else, a change. I learned on a HT and it's fun to get back on the saddle from time to time just to ride one. I love my FS bikes but wouldn't get rid of my HT. If it ever bit the dust, I'd probably be looking at another one!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battery View Post
    I am graduating college next year and I bought another FS as a gift for all of my suffering while working with the youngin's.
    What is your 20-year degree going to be in?

  41. #41
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    Ibis Ripmo frame minus DV9 frame equals $2000

    Ibis Ripmo XX1 minus DV9 XX1 equals $2270.

    Hmm, the FS got another $270 somewhere along the way.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    How much does it weigh?
    I think I see a triple ring up front. *gasp* the nerve.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    What is your 20-year degree going to be in?
    Technical writing. I plan to apply to engineering school and get an engineering degree in user experience. Jobs start at $80k+ a year in my area.


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  44. #44
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    I think they're totally still relevant and an absolute blast to ride. I've got a coiled out (fork too) Hightower LT as my full squisher but man I hate pedaling that thing around most days unless it's guaranteed that I'll be hitting steep, fast tech and big drops. For literally anything else I almost prefer my hardtail. Modern hardtails are far more capable than they used to be. For example, my Surface frame is slack, optimized for a 150mm fork and super confidence inspiring for not having a forgiving rear end. It pedals awesome and so far has handled all the sketchiness I've thrown at it! They give such a lively ride and make trails that are boring on the full sus super fun. I love my LT but I couldn't imagine not having the hardtail in my quiver
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  45. #45
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    I ride a hardtail for a number of reasons:

    1. I have strong preference for steel and don't care about weight. There are very few FS steel bikes.

    2. I'm in decent enough shape that I can still do some pretty rough uphill tech on a hardtail. I'm actually skeptical that it'd make any difference for me to ride a FS bike, but if there's a place it'd matter, it is there.

    3. The downhill here is flowy enough that much of it could be comfortably ridden rigid.

    Interestingly, I prefer rocky technical terrain. My favorite trails are full of punchy climbs, jumps, and drops. Maybe I'm a better rider because I don't crash that much despite not having rear suspension to fix my poor line choices? While I might be faster on a FS bike, I'm not sure I'd be having any more fun.

    I told myself I'd buy an aluminum FS bike next year, but so far, finding one that has all the features I want (high end suspension, Eagle, 27.5+ tires, Reverb, 140ish travel, geometry) for a price I want to pay is actually turning out to make it really easy. Since I haven't found any bikes I like yet, I haven't bought one. And maybe I won't.

  46. #46
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    I just did the same as the OP. I could've afforded any bike I wanted, but what I wanted was a ti hardtail - built from the frame up with the parts I wanted.

    It works for me and my riding style on every trail system around home. And most anywhere else.


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    I started mountain biking six years ago and went hardtail -> full suspension -> rigid -> hardtail.

    I bought the rigid bike as a simpler winter bike but found I really like the feel of it whereas the full suspension felt a bit isolated in comparison. I bought the hardtail to replace the full suspension bike and for my riding prefer it as I have more feel through the bike. I do miss the FS bike when I'm tired and doing long downhill sections or for extended bumpy cross country sections but overall very pleased with the hardtail.

    2014 Trek Fuel Ex 8
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  48. #48
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    I think many of us kind of follow the path of the Buddha- start simple and ignorant (entry-level 3x9 hardtail with a flimsy fork), get absolutely fabulous (carbon mid-fat dropper post FS), seek simplification mid-travel XC FS), go full-on weight weenie (custom titanium rigid singlespeed, apple cider vinegar in a single water bottle, no socks), then settle on something that does the job without excess (nice aluminum hardtail 1x type bike). after all that, a Karate Monkey with Big Apples and BMX handlebars is ridden until you are snuffed out of existence and the cycles begins anew. I skipped most of those steps, so maybe that's my problem. I think I'll save myself the trouble and round out to the last one soon.

    stay tuned, I'll have an outline of the mountain bike Eightfold Path soon!

  49. #49
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    I'll chime in yet again...am very tempted to go high end HT, but not quite finding what I want - very light, substantial built-in compliance, progressive and fun geo (esp. short chainstays).

    Transition Vanquish is on top right now for geo in a reasonably light package...although they could cut 250-300g's off the frame weight and build in some compliance.

    Highball, and Exceed are on the watch list, but are not quite there on geo...

    Scratched Canfield EPO and carbon Honzos

    If they were a bit lighter, I would consider something like one of the Vassago Radimus Ti's
    Last edited by IPA Rider; 5 Days Ago at 01:55 PM.
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    How much does it weigh?
    27# At least it has light wheels (they used to be 100g lighter but they both bent - it seems there is a pretty big difference between a 450g rim and a 500g rim)

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I think I see a triple ring up front. *gasp* the nerve.
    That's an old pic. It's 2X now.
    Went from 22-32-44 x 11-32 to 22-36-bash x 11-36.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I could see having fun there on a hardtail. But it would be different than you'd ride it on a FS. You certainly aren't going to be plowing through that kind of chunk at speed on a hardtail.
    I feel like hardtail riding is a lost art... all the Bro-brah PinkBike shreddits have skewed the perception that unless youíre doing warp-speed on a long travel squish, you canít possibly be having fun.

    I personally feel way more satisfied when I get to the top or bottom of a section on my rigid singlespeed and think ĎI canít believe I cleaned that!Ē, way more than ĎI got the KOM.í
    Iíve tried every black-diamond trail in Sedona on my steel singlespeed. The same ones that MTBR posters have advocated as not worth riding unless youíre on 140+ FS with a 64deg HTA.

    OP: donít worry about the death of the HT. As long as thereís singlespeeders left, there will be hardtails. Just add a drivetrain and donít worry about what your friends are on.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    I feel like hardtail riding is a lost art... all the Bro-brah PinkBike shreddits have skewed the perception that unless youíre doing warp-speed on a long travel squish, you canít possibly be having fun.

    I personally feel way more satisfied when I get to the top or bottom of a section on my rigid singlespeed and think ĎI canít believe I cleaned that!Ē, way more than ĎI got the KOM.í
    Iíve tried every black-diamond trail in Sedona on my steel singlespeed. The same ones that MTBR posters have advocated as not worth riding unless youíre on 140+ FS with a 64deg HTA.

    OP: donít worry about the death of the HT. As long as thereís singlespeeders left, there will be hardtails. Just add a drivetrain and donít worry about what your friends are on.
    Totally agreed. The hardtail I'm building now is going to prompt a fun 2019 of riding, I think. My goal is going to be riding it on all of the rowdy Pisgah trails I have at my disposal. Of course, enduro is the big thing nowadays (so you see a TON of 140-160mm FS bikes out there), and local riders like to say they've been riding enduro since before enduro existed. And to an extent, that's true. The trails have all been there for a very long time. Decades, in many cases. I have a guide book from 1993 that shows a lot of them.

    Of course I'll be riding everything differently on the hardtail as opposed to my FS. I don't expect them to be the same. I also expect there to be an adjustment period while I figure out the new bike and how to ride it best on some of those trails.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPA Rider View Post
    I'll chime in yet again...am very tempted to go high end HT, but not quite finding what I want - very light, substantial built-in compliance, progressive and fun geo (esp. short chainstays).

    Transition Vanquish is on top right now for geo in a reasonably light package...although they could cut 250-300g's off the frame weight and build in some compliance.

    Highball, and Exceed are on the watch list, but are not quite there on geo...

    Scratched Canfield EPO and carbon Honzos

    If they were a bit lighter, I would consider something like one of the Vassago Radimus Ti's
    I'm not sure exactly what sort of bike you are wanting. Your emphasis on light weight is pointing to an xc bike, but it sounds like you're wanting the geo from a rowdier bike, which is going to encourage the builder to over-build it to make sure it doesn't spectacularly fail.

    I don't think you're going to be able to get exactly what it sounds like you're after.

  54. #54
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    Hard tail and hard front for me

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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I'm not sure exactly what sort of bike you are wanting. Your emphasis on light weight is pointing to an xc bike, but it sounds like you're wanting the geo from a rowdier bike, which is going to encourage the builder to over-build it to make sure it doesn't spectacularly fail.

    I don't think you're going to be able to get exactly what it sounds like you're after.
    Kingdom Vendetta. Dunno about the built in compliance with short chain stays, but it is a rowdy Ti hardtail.


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  56. #56
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    I'm riding a high end hardtail because 29x3" tires are my jam. I'm into climbing the steep loose tech, and nothing compares to semi-fat 29s coupled with short chainstays. Now, I could drop $3k on a Waltworks FS with specs that work for me, but I'm really perfectly happy on a my hardtail with 29x3s and a 140mm Fox 36.

    YMMV
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  57. #57
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    Wait... we can only have one bike? Damn.
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I have both (ht and fs). They're both fun.
    rigid hardtail ss, geared 3 x 10 suspended hardtail, 140 x 120 dualie.

    all fun for different reasons.

  59. #59
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    We all know that FS bikes exist so intermediate riders can keep up with the fast guys on hardtails. I ride hardtails so i can pretend i'm one of the fast guys.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    We all know that FS bikes exist so intermediate riders can keep up with the fast guys on hardtails.
    ......or single speeds

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurkC View Post
    ......or single speeds
    Nah those are for weirdos.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Nah those are for weirdos.
    Touche

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  63. #63
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    I just bought a new (to me) hardtail last weekend. I guess it doesn't qualify as "high end" but that's ok with me! Can't wait to get out on it Sunday.

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-kona.jpg

    (2017 Kona Unit)
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I just bought a new (to me) hardtail last weekend. I guess it doesn't qualify as "high end" but that's ok with me! Can't wait to get out on it Sunday.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (2017 Kona Unit)
    Um... that's not a hardtail.
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Um... that's not a hardtail.
    =sParty
    lol, ok, but I still ride my 26er hardtail!

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-dragon_on_south_loop.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    lol, ok, but I still ride my 26er hardtail!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    i always liked the look of those mid-nineties shimano xt cranks.

  67. #67
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    [QUOTE=Fleas;13877790]Click image for larger version. 

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    Sweet chrome N9! I am in the process of building up a dark metal flake purple N9. First mtb bike I have owned in about 13 years with gears and suspension.

  68. #68
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    Then thereís this.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rYRZVuWfF90" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Apparently I can't internet today. I keep breaking the link.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYRZ...be&app=desktop
    Last edited by ARandomBiker; 4 Days Ago at 02:17 PM.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  69. #69
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    Hardtails are awesome.

    Bikes are awesome.

    Not all awesome hardtails are high end.

    I like hard tails.

    I like some full suspension bikes.

    The end.



    OK not the end, but I really enjoy 29 plus with a suspension fork and a hard tail, to me, this has been cycling nirvana since 2016. I can ride anywhere I'd ride my full suspension bike, most places faster and with more confidence. This is why I choose to ride my high end hardtail more often than not. I love the way they respond, handle and pedal. There's something so fun about putting together a run on a hardtail.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Great riding. A hardtail is better for trials type maneuvers. The only thing in that video I think FS would be better for is when he's pedaling up that super steep hill with the rear tire spinning.

  71. #71
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    I like hard tails. My ass doesnít. End of story.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALimon View Post
    I like hard tails. My ass doesnít. End of story.
    I think thereís a song in there somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I think thereís a song in there somewhere.
    A tragic story indeed...

  74. #74
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    Like I have said before, this forum could do with far fewer bike-specific subforum s:
    Hardtail/rigid
    FS
    Fatbike
    Gravel/ cyclocross

    That would eliminate a lot of clutter. Get with it!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALimon View Post
    I like hard tails. My ass doesnít. End of story.
    I definitely build my hard tails for a flatter back position than fs. You know you're low when the camelback falls off your back unless you latch the chest strap.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    The only thing in that video I think FS would be better for is when he's pedaling up that super steep hill with the rear tire spinning.
    Chris Akrigg videos are fun. I think it was the camber more than the pitch that caused the wheel spin there....I don't know that suspension would have helped.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  77. #77
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    Hardtails go right now when you hit the gas, and I mean instantly accelerate like a light switch. FS can never do that no matter how hard you try. That is the feeling I chase in all my bikes. Most recent is a Pro 29 Lynskey with Di2 XT Syncro Shifting. Ride my bike and tell me you love FS. FS has it place but not on the long fast trails I ride most of the time. Even my Fatty Farley gets up and goes! Yeti yeti Yada Yada Yada.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-213f5a1e-69bd-4858-8ce9-5328048c0228.jpg  


  78. #78
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    I personally prefer my hardtail over my fs bikes and would take a hardtail as my only bike if I could only have one. I just prefer the feedback and the feel my gives me over a fs bike.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I definitely build my hard tails for a flatter back position than fs. You know you're low when the camelback falls off your back unless you latch the chest strap.
    You didn't latch your chest strap?......
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  80. #80
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    I'd love to get an AM hardtail if I could afford it.

    Probably be more fun than my 1997 VooDoo, although it has its charms.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    i always liked the look of those mid-nineties shimano xt cranks.
    good eye, shekky, I'm impressed.

    2005 Jamis Dragon.

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-dragon_cranks.jpg

    Wait a minute, mid '90s? Really? They should be XTRs but a previous owner swiped all the XTR components off except for the rear derailleur and sold it to a guy who used it as a commuter for ten years. When I got it, it was missing the front brake and had cheap worn out commuter tires and a too small seat post (fortunately, somehow the seat tube wasn't ovalized). I wondered why the rear derailleur hadn't ben swapped out, I somehow missed that it was a rapid rise. I replaced it with an XT which I then trashed on the first ride, along with the chain and front derailleur. I traded with another member for a used XTR rear and found a super cheap new old stock XTR front (apparently, there isn't a high demand for 9-speed front derailleurs sized for steel tubes now-a-days, go figure).

    And if you're wondering where the pedals went, the new Kona had to borrow them until she get's her green Chesters.

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-kona_at_fence.jpg

    Funny, the Kona looks smaller than the Jamis in the pix. They both just finished up getting a bath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  82. #82
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    Those cranks weren't available until 2005-ish. I bought a set as soon as they came out.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Those cranks weren't available until 2005-ish. I bought a set as soon as they came out.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Ok, that makes more sense. Maybe shekky got his decades mixed up. When I read his post it didn't even click other than the "mid" part. It wasn't until after I replied that it hit me "nineties" and I went back and edited my post. I think the original owner rode the Dragon for a year then bought an XT equipped bike and swapped most of the parts over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Like I have said before, this forum could do with far fewer bike-specific subforum s:
    HK (hucking kitty)
    FS (Full Suspension)
    S&D (Stand & Deliver- HT/rigid)
    FB (Fatbike)
    CX (Cyclocross)


    That would eliminate a lot of clutter. Get with it!
    fify
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I'd love to get an AM hardtail if I could afford it.

    Probably be more fun than my 1997 VooDoo, although it has its charms.
    Cost per mile, fun hardtails pay for themselves. You're riding a compromised bike so you don't need to waste time with the latest standards. Just get a good frame and a tip-top fork from the last 10 years and don't think about it. 9/10sp xt is basically free and works great.


    Ride the full suspension money trap when it's warranted.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  86. #86
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    ^^
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  87. #87
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    aren't the cranks on the bike in post #65 these ones?

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-dscn0562.jpg

  88. #88
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    Still riding and racing on hard tails with both the geared and single speed bikes and I am 56 years old.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-2676fde2-b93d-422b-a019-8abeef90e172.jpeg  

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-5144d351-6d67-4a96-80d9-c2bfb49cb93c.jpg  

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-05c6ff28-1bfc-4fa8-947e-333f920fe30b.jpeg  

    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SS
    RM Suzi Q 90 RSL
    KHS Team 29
    S-Works Roubaix
    KHS CX 550 cyclocross

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    aren't the cranks on the bike in post #65 these ones?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nope. Chaz's red Jamis has the first Hollowtech II XT cranks

    Name:  703322d1339509695-2004-xt-hollow-tech-crank-vs-new-deore-captura.jpg
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  90. #90
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    Lol, I like your logic, it is funny, I first got into bikes 15 years ago, got a full suspension bike, a cannondale prophet, then bought one of the first karate monkeys, riding a 29er 14 years ago was definiltey "different" I then went salsa dos niner, then custom blacksheep rigid, jones ti space frame, and got into fat bikes back when the pugsley was the only thing in the market, it weighed 40 pounds and cost me 3 grand! Ive pretty much never gone back to full suspension since that original prophet I bought 15 years go.
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I think many of us kind of follow the path of the Buddha- start simple and ignorant (entry-level 3x9 hardtail with a flimsy fork), get absolutely fabulous (carbon mid-fat dropper post FS), seek simplification mid-travel XC FS), go full-on weight weenie (custom titanium rigid singlespeed, apple cider vinegar in a single water bottle, no socks), then settle on something that does the job without excess (nice aluminum hardtail 1x type bike). after all that, a Karate Monkey with Big Apples and BMX handlebars is ridden until you are snuffed out of existence and the cycles begins anew. I skipped most of those steps, so maybe that's my problem. I think I'll save myself the trouble and round out to the last one soon.

    stay tuned, I'll have an outline of the mountain bike Eightfold Path soon!

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I agree, check out that badass custom head badge.

    Better view of it here... http://forums.mtbr.com/riding-passio...l#post13869412

    Thanks i appreciate that

  92. #92
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    here are a few more of the badge and bars and front of the bike

    Reason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-img_2282-3.jpgReason Why High End Hard Tails Still Exist??-img_2127.jpg

  93. #93
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    That is a beautiful Lynsey I love the twisted bottom tube so beautiful!

  94. #94
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    That is a beautiful Lynsey love the twisted bottom tube
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Hardtails go right now when you hit the gas, and I mean instantly accelerate like a light switch. FS can never do that no matter how hard you try. That is the feeling I chase in all my bikes. Most recent is a Pro 29 Lynskey with Di2 XT Syncro Shifting. Ride my bike and tell me you love FS. FS has it place but not on the long fast trails I ride most of the time. Even my Fatty Farley gets up and goes! Yeti yeti Yada Yada Yada.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fattyrider38 View Post
    That is a beautiful Lynsey love the twisted bottom tube
    ....and a lot of spacers under that stem!
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

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    Yes there is. An early pic before I slowly cut the steerer tube one spacer at a time before I got to my perfect geometry. About half of the spacers are gone. It has an an alloy tube as compared to carbon so I felt it was safe. Very observant.

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    better to be safe than to cut it too short though!!! lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Yes there is. An early pic before I slowly cut the steerer tube one spacer at a time before I got to my perfect geometry. About half of the spacers are gone. It has an an alloy tube as compared to carbon so I felt it was safe. Very observant.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Yes there is. An early pic before I slowly cut the steerer tube one spacer at a time before I got to my perfect geometry. About half of the spacers are gone. It has an an alloy tube as compared to carbon so I felt it was safe. Very observant.
    I figured it had to be before the whole thing had been sorted....I only questioned it because, Who keeps that many red stem spacers around?


    It's a very nice bike.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

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    It's become an issue of affordability to me. Every time I get a new bike, I always say my next will be FS. The last time I had a FS was 12 years ago, and at the tie time ,my mechanic noticed that I always kept my rear shock really stiff . And I told him I didn't really like the squishy ride. So he told me to get a hard tail. Just recently , I got a 27.5+ hard tail as a gift to myself for my 60th. And I really like it. Folks have told me that running the tires at low pressure , is just like having suspension. While I don't agree with that, it is a little more forgiving. I think if I had a little more money, I would go for a Moots YBB. Probably the closest I would get to FS. And At the trails, I don't see too many ht's. But when I'm in Western Carolina, I see a few locals passing me on the climbs on their HT SS Reebs. Gives me hope

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    I figured it had to be before the whole thing had been sorted....I only questioned it because, Who keeps that many red stem spacers around?


    It's a very nice bike.
    Thanks! I dropped over one hundred USD on those spacers. They have one or two other uses but they are mostly just junk now. It was worth it while I figured out what length to make the final cut of the steering. If you cut it too short on a Rock Shock, they will put another on for $200 USD. Fox would not give me time of day in that regard. Trek will not send you a Progect One bike without them cutting the steering tube. I almost dropped 8 large on a Pro Caliber but the pre cut tube was a deal breaker for me. I pressed pretty strongly to ship the bike without the cut but they insisted the bike ship with their spec, period. So I bought a Lynskey and just could not be happier.

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