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  1. #101
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    Iíve had frames replaced by Santa Cruz and Specialized (Spec was almost 30 years ago) and parts warrantied by trek, Shimano and Chris King, others, too, Iím sure. Never had a problem.

    I could see how smaller operations might be less likely to throw new stuff at you.

    The worst at warranty for me has been Volkswagen.
    --Reamer

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    Iíve had frames replaced by Santa Cruz and Specialized (Spec was almost 30 years ago) and parts warrantied by trek, Shimano and Chris King, others, too, Iím sure. Never had a problem.

    I could see how smaller operations might be less likely to throw new stuff at you.

    The worst at warranty for me has been Volkswagen.
    What specific issues did you have that VW gave you drama on warranty about?
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    What specific issues did you have that VW gave you drama on warranty about?
    His emissions test failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  4. #104
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    Oh man. I sent a Chris King bottom bracket to them to get new bearings. I wasn't asking for warranty coverage or anything. Just wanted the bearings replaced. A few days later, I got an entirely new bb in the mail.
    I like turtles

  5. #105
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    I never trust the bike industry in general. Everyone is always try to scam me

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    Warranty is not a blanket term, and there is always fine print.
    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I think people are using "warranty against manufacturer defects" and "guarantee" interchangeably.
    In this context, a warranty is a guarantee is a promise. These words are interchangeable and have no legal distinction. The nature of the coverage and the remedy are whatever the promisor says they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Breaking something doesn't mean it was manufactured incorrectly.
    The bird's eye view here is fault allocation. The party at fault bears the cost of the failure. The terms of the promise are the mechanism to determine who's at fault. The actual cause of the failure doesn't matter; if you have a "replacement no matter what" promise, hucking the bike off a bridge could well entitle you to a replacement. That's more typically called insurance, which is, again, just another promise. You could call it a warranty; it makes no difference.

    Which is all to say: each "warranty" is an island. If you want to know what a particular one covers, reference the actual text.

  7. #107
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    ^^^Yes, and if folks actually read their warranty card that comes with their bike, most of this crap isn't covered oh wait...JRA!
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    I have posted about this before in other, more specific subs so it may sound repetitive and whiny to some. I just wanted to open a dialogue here and hope that some people from the industry may stumble up on it.

    At this point, I have all but lost faith in the industry when it comes to warranty issues and companies standing behind their products. Mountain biking is not my only hobby, so I have dealt with warranty issues in other realms and never really had an issue. I have literally never had a good experience dealing with warranties in the cycling world. Ever.

    I have broken a handful of frames over the years, always steel frames because they get ridden a lot. Rigid SS has always been my main ride, and they see a lot of miles. In all of the frames and parts I have broken, I've yet to get a replacement for any of them. Not only that, but the correspondence is always so spotty that I never can get a good read on what's actually going on with the process.

    I work part time as a mechanic in a local shop, and I always go through the proper channels for these warranties. They're always legitimate, and they're always catastrophic failures. If it's something that can be boogered back together, I generally do it strictly to avoid downtime.

    I have had companies straight up tell me no, they will not cover a part. Companies drag me through a long, arduous process of taking frames to other local shops to prove the validity of my claim, and most recently a company who responds to my update requests MAYBE once every 1-2 weeks. This case was opened almost 3 months ago, and with this one I even spent $40 shipping the frame back for "evaluation".

    I am honestly about to thin out my stable and buy a brazing setup to start building my own frames, just so I don't have to deal with this anymore. I am constantly amazed that an industry of people who claim to be riders themselves, generally seem to have no issue with letting people miss out on half of their riding season due to awful warranty policies.

    Sorry to vent here, but it really bothers me how much money I have put into this sport and how much time I miss riding every season because of this BS.
    Since this thread is TL;DR I have broken steel frames from Salsa and never had problems getting replacements in short time and with immediate satisfaction (bring this up because steel bikes), additionally one of my good buddies has broken multiple Surly bikes and they warranty them every time (also steel bikes) and never had a complications getting it resolved or back on the bike.

    This brings up why these bikes break but that is a different discussion. I bet most of the brands repped by Quality bikes will have a great warranty and be easy to get taken care of. Best of all most of the brands they have include nice steel frames.

    My other frame breakage was a decades old Turner (That I got second hand and rode for 4 years) and I called Turner, talked to them, they agreed to look at it and try to fix it. Wasn't repairable so they gave me discount on a front triangle, I rode it for a couple more years then sent it off to another person for more fun.

    As always your mileage will vary.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    What specific issues did you have that VW gave you drama on warranty about?
    This goes back a ways, but the '98 Jetta VR6 had a thermostat housing crack and "they" (service writer, dealer, corporation?) tried to tell me that it wasn't part of the powertrain. There were issues with window regulators, as well. It's been a while so I don't remember all the specifics.

    I had also had a 2011 Golf TDI that was a lemon. Huge issues with fuel system and engine management. Thankfully it never left me stranded. And VW stood behind the car. It was in the shop so many times and so many parts were replaced -- but they wouldn't agree to cover anything (I was never convinced it was fixed, just wack-a-mole repairs) once the the basic warranty was expired -- so I sold that one.

    And then theres the emissions thing... Different story, but no, it never failed the test -- they had that game covered.
    --Reamer

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyIron View Post
    Steven,
    You're complaint to us is lacking in details and facts. What is the make/model/year of the broken frame? Show us some pictures of the failure.

    If the resolution to your problem would be to buy a welding outfit, there's no downside to doing it yourself. Send us pictures of that project, too.
    This specific issue is with a Vassago frame, specifically the newest version of the Jabberwocky. Less than one full season of riding and the welds cracked where the rear triangle meets the seat tube, both sides.

    Initially they were very responsive, but as time has gone on I can't get anything from them. I was told that this was definitely a warranty issue and that I would be receiving a new frame after I sent my cracked one in for "review". Spent $40 shipping it there and they confirmed that it's a legit warranty case.

    So to recap, just pulling dates from my emails:

    May 5th - Emailed about the issue, got a response to send the frame in
    May 12th - Emailed them to confirm they got the frame, which they did
    June 15th - Asked for an update, was told that the new shipment of frames was "held up in customs"... I thought it was standard practice to keep at least a few frames on the shelf for warranty issues. Apparently I was wrong.
    June 28th - Asked for another update, and it's been radio silence since.

    I also tried calling, but no on answers the phone.

    Here are pics of the cracked welds, just to prove that I am not some hack who clearly wrecked his bike and is trying to capitalize on a warranty. As mentioned above, both sides. The frame has been ridden hard but never wrecked any worse than an every day run of the mill tip over.

    Rapidly losing faith in the industry-20180505_151506.jpg

    Rapidly losing faith in the industry-20180505_151431.jpg

  11. #111
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    Itís not the industry Iím losing faith in, Itís humanity. Warranty in place and a failed product. If it falls under the stated warranty guidelines it should be a no hassle transaction. Problem is, many feel entitled to what they think the manufacturer is at fault for. Society [the industry] owes you nothing. Follow the stated warranty claim guidelines and you should be fine. If itís a hassle, get what you can out of them and move on. They either earned future business from you and those you speak to, or they lost. Depending on how the transaction transpired. Itís what makes and breaks companies.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  12. #112
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    Those are some awful looking welds as it is.
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    Those are some awful looking welds as it is.
    Iím here as we speak and I may as well say I agree with you, big time.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Itís not the industry Iím losing faith in, Itís humanity.
    The Spanish Inquisition
    Conquistadors and Spanish colonization
    British Empire
    American colonization and expansion
    American Civil War
    The Holocaust
    Khmer Rouge
    Rwandan Civil War
    Donald Trump

    I left out a billion other things, but THIS is what has caused your loss in faith in humanity?
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Itís not the industry Iím losing faith in, Itís humanity. Warranty in place and a failed product. If it falls under the stated warranty guidelines it should be a no hassle transaction. Problem is, many feel entitled to what they think the manufacturer is at fault for. Society [the industry] owes you nothing. Follow the stated warranty claim guidelines and you should be fine. If itís a hassle, get what you can out of them and move on. They either earned future business from you and those you speak to, or they lost. Depending on how the transaction transpired. Itís what makes and breaks companies.
    Spot on.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Itís not the industry Iím losing faith in, Itís humanity. Warranty in place and a failed product. If it falls under the stated warranty guidelines it should be a no hassle transaction. Problem is, many feel entitled to what they think the manufacturer is at fault for. Society [the industry] owes you nothing. Follow the stated warranty claim guidelines and you should be fine. If itís a hassle, get what you can out of them and move on. They either earned future business from you and those you speak to, or they lost. Depending on how the transaction transpired. Itís what makes and breaks companies.
    Even though I have done a good bit of complaining in this thread, I actually agree with you completely. I am one of those weird people who thinks hard about who I give my money to. Honestly, that's part of the reason I have been buying smaller boutique frames for so long, because I love supporting small business and helping some dudes dream of owning a bike company come true.

    On the flip side of that, if I have deal with a bunch of BS like I have been dealing with and it could have been avoided, then I won't give my money to them anymore. I am also vocal about my experiences with certain places (within reason obviously).

    The last thing I will say, is that I had a feeling this was going to happen based on my past experiences with warranty issues, so I already went out and purchased another frame so I didn't lose out on a whole season of riding again. At this point I am just trying to recoup the money I had to fork out for the new frame (meaning I would like my warranty frame so I could sell it to cover part of the cost of the new frame).

    The reason I am so bent about this whole thing is that every time this happens, I feel more and more obligated to buy from bigger companies that have no-hassle warranty policies. Like I said above, I would rather give my money to the little guy.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    The Spanish Inquisition
    Conquistadors and Spanish colonization
    British Empire
    American colonization and expansion
    American Civil War
    The Holocaust
    Khmer Rouge
    Rwandan Civil War
    Donald Trump

    I left out a billion other things, but THIS is what has caused your loss in faith in humanity?
    Forgot to Obama to your list.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    The Spanish Inquisition
    Conquistadors and Spanish colonization
    British Empire
    American colonization and expansion
    American Civil War
    The Holocaust
    Khmer Rouge
    Rwandan Civil War
    Donald Trump

    I left out a billion other things, but THIS is what has caused your loss in faith in humanity?
    Rosie O'Donnell and
    Opra
    Twilight falls upon old souls darkening our skin & bone.Soon I'll follow Prudence home until then just let me chase this sun

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Forgot to Obama to your list.
    why would he go on that list? Could it be for trying to get everyone in the country health care? Or because he failed? Is it how he started 10yrs ago, by trying to project an image of fairness and not be taking sides in long-boiling conflicts in the Middle East? That sure pissed-off a bunch of folks. There may be a lot of reasons to be disappointed in him, but comparing the guy to holocaust events is goin way out there. Those Russian trolls sure got a lot of stuff into our mainstream.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    why would he go on that list? Could it be for trying to get everyone in the country health care? Or because he failed? Is it how he started 10yrs ago, by trying to project an image of fairness and not be taking sides in long-boiling conflicts in the Middle East? That sure pissed-off a bunch of folks. There may be a lot of reasons to be disappointed in him, but comparing the guy to holocaust events is goin way out there. Those Russian trolls sure got a lot of stuff into our mainstream.
    Can you even think for yourself? Some guy publishes a list based on his own preferences, it means nothing, and another adds his own to the list. WTF? Are that much tied to politics that you canít stand to have your sacred cow criticized?

    Hereís a a video from a fairly smart guy who is familiar with your idol. Lighten up.


    https://youtu.be/DRut_LTJpwI





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  21. #121
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    Rapidly losing faith in these threads.

    See ya riding... or not.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    The reason I am so bent about this whole thing is that every time this happens, I feel more and more obligated to buy from bigger companies that have no-hassle warranty policies. Like I said above, I would rather give my money to the little guy.

    Understandable but small little boutique companies ďwho are smartĒ back up their warranty claims even more so than large companies. What better way than to grow than to get a good reputation rather than the opposite. Like I said, bad customer service makes and breaks companies every day. In my opinion small companies with an attitude towards warranty claims is just company suicide.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Hereís a a video from a fairly smart guy who is familiar with your idol. Lighten up.
    Yep... real smart guy. (Please, please, please note the sarcasm.)


    Back on the topic of discussion, word of mouth about the awesomeness of Santa Cruzís warranty is the reason I bought one.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Understandable but small little boutique companies ďwho are smartĒ back up their warranty claims even more so than large companies. What better way than to grow than to get a good reputation rather than the opposite. Like I said, bad customer service makes and breaks companies every day. In my opinion small companies with an attitude towards warranty claims is just company suicide.
    I always like to think of things in the market place as; "We vote with our wallet."

    Customer care, warranty, service-with-a-smile, whatever gets my motor going good, bad or otherwise usually lives indeliable in my memory.

    That doesn't mean I don't give 2nd chances though. Having worked sales, service or customer care, and my experiences or expectations as a customer for many decades, I think it affords me some forgiving nature but that same experience helps read the B.S. meter and spot crooks a bit easier too.

    Every situation is different and I've had mis communication issues that fall to either side being at fault on things.
    I think some (I've done this) get a bit revved-up ready to argue and make their point to effect they don't listen well or mis cues by the other party.
    Slowing it down a bit and listening carefully or keeping my cool usually demonstrates reasonable attitude and is often rewarded by the same respect and action of the other party. It also minimizes my occasion for misinterpeting or mis-hearing what they are willing to do.

    I've see it happen often where one party stomps off all upset never realizing the other side actually agreed to take care of the issue. So caught up in emotions and expecting a big fight, they never really heard them.


    As for boutique versus the big volume giants, I've good experiences with those specialty-types. My guess is they adhere to striving more for the 4.5 or 5 star rating customer feedback or experience and the giants seem happy if not goal-oriented to the 3 star reputation.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    why would he go on that list? Could it be for trying to get everyone in the country health care? Or because he failed? Is it how he started 10yrs ago, by trying to project an image of fairness and not be taking sides in long-boiling conflicts in the Middle East? That sure pissed-off a bunch of folks. There may be a lot of reasons to be disappointed in him, but comparing the guy to holocaust events is goin way out there. Those Russian trolls sure got a lot of stuff into our mainstream.
    Trying, you mean demanding/forcing, or being fined. You mean forcing someone to pay out of their ass, when they've spent $0 in the previous 20 years is a positive thing?

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    The Spanish Inquisition
    Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  27. #127
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    BTW - no more political talk.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    learn HOW to ride. ive never broken anything. been riding mtb for 20 years, bmx before that. never bent a fork, broke a frame or bent a wheel. flow, dont smash thru stuff
    Guessing you use missionary position only too...

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    Guessing you use missionary position only too...
    I wasn't going to respond to the post you quoted, but I really hate responses like that. I've had friends say similar things; "I have been riding for 12 years and never broke a single thing"... I never have the heart to tell them that the reason they never break anything is because they consider 8 miles a "good ride" and they average maybe one ride a week if they're lucky.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    This attitude that you have to jack off the LBS to help you with a warranty claim, or even give you decent service in general, is puzzling.
    I laughed so hard at this, I snorted. Too funny.

    It's not jacking them off...its being human. I've become good friends with my LBS over the past (whats 2018-1985?, 33yrs...jeez) years. They worked after hours on my bikes, gone beyond the call of duty getting me parts warrantied and getting me parts on time. Shit...I cater their Christmas Eve lunch every year for the past 15 years and I love to do it. They matter to me and I want them to know I appreciate it. I realize not everyone cares or has this set up, but I do. In fact, I remember one road ride year ago. I went through both spare inner tubes, and 6 patches (when it rains, it pours). I used my cell phone to call from the side of the road about 40 mi from the shop; I asked if they knew anyway to patch a tire. The LBS actually sent one of their employees out to pick me up and give me a ride back.

    I think I'll keep jacking them off!!! LOL! (still snort-laughing at this). I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have a good LBS.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    why would he go on that list? Could it be for trying to get everyone in the country health care? Or because he failed? Is it how he started 10yrs ago, by trying to project an image of fairness and not be taking sides in long-boiling conflicts in the Middle East? That sure pissed-off a bunch of folks. There may be a lot of reasons to be disappointed in him, but comparing the guy to holocaust events is goin way out there. Those Russian trolls sure got a lot of stuff into our mainstream.
    Donald has done far more good then Obama in 2 years, quite amazing actually, so why is he on the list?

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    BTW - no more political talk.
    Nope, not going to do that unless the other political post are removed or the thread closed.

    Make it right, tired of being bullied by liberal wack jobs, someone has to start standing up to them, enough is enough.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Make it right, tired of being bullied by liberal wack jobs, someone has to start standing up to them, enough is enough.
    OMG! Are you going to be alright snowflake?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Make it right, tired of being bullied by liberal wack jobs, someone has to start standing up to them, enough is enough.
    Better to lay low and besides, Outrage works for POTUS.
    Jayem do it good- He name-callin' !!

    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  35. #135
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    Its disheartening to see so many MTB topic threads now turning into a politicized flame wars. Come on guys... even after the Moderator asks everyone to knock it off....Really???

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    This specific issue is with a Vassago frame, specifically the newest version of the Jabberwocky. Less than one full season of riding and the welds cracked where the rear triangle meets the seat tube, both sides.

    Initially they were very responsive, but as time has gone on I can't get anything from them. I was told that this was definitely a warranty issue and that I would be receiving a new frame after I sent my cracked one in for "review". Spent $40 shipping it there and they confirmed that it's a legit warranty case.

    So to recap, just pulling dates from my emails:

    May 5th - Emailed about the issue, got a response to send the frame in
    May 12th - Emailed them to confirm they got the frame, which they did
    June 15th - Asked for an update, was told that the new shipment of frames was "held up in customs"... I thought it was standard practice to keep at least a few frames on the shelf for warranty issues. Apparently I was wrong.
    June 28th - Asked for another update, and it's been radio silence since.

    I also tried calling, but no on answers the phone.

    Here are pics of the cracked welds, just to prove that I am not some hack who clearly wrecked his bike and is trying to capitalize on a warranty. As mentioned above, both sides. The frame has been ridden hard but never wrecked any worse than an every day run of the mill tip over.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Doing my part to get this thread back on topic...

    Two things:

    I don't get how some small brands have problems communicating with their customers. Personalized customer service is one of the biggest advantages the smaller brands have over the big guys. Fail here and you're going to have a hard time in the marketplace. Even with a superior product.

    SingleSpeedSteven- Hopefully Vassago gets this sorted out soon. Would you mind posting some more closeup pics of the welded joints on that frame? Based on what you already posted, it looks like some really crappy workmanship. That seat stay joint looks like it might have some filler/Bondo under the paint.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 410sprint View Post
    Doing my part to get this thread back on topic...

    Two things:

    I don't get how some small brands have problems communicating with their customers. Personalized customer service is one of the biggest advantages the smaller brands have over the big guys. Fail here and you're going to have a hard time in the marketplace. Even with a superior product.

    SingleSpeedSteven- Hopefully Vassago gets this sorted out soon. Would you mind posting some more closeup pics of the welded joints on that frame? Based on what you already posted, it looks like some really crappy workmanship. That seat stay joint looks like it might have some filler/Bondo under the paint.
    I sent the frame back in to them, so I am not able to get any more pictures than what I already have. I agree that the welds don't look great... I will say that I really enjoyed this frame before it broke though. The geo and everything is spot on and rides amazing for a $600 steel frame. It's unfortunate that it broke, I didn't even get to do any races on it.

    Vassago has since responded and we worked something out. Long story short, I sold my gravel bike to cover the cost of a new frame (Nimble 9) since this warranty was taking so long. They are going to throw me a Fisticuff frame so I can build up a new gravel bike, which I am thankful for. Overall the correspondence were pleasant, they just took a while.

    Still likely going to stick with bigger companies from now on. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I work part time at a shop and have dealt with Specialized, Santa Cruz, and a couple other larger companies warranty processes. If this frame had been one of those, I would have been back on the trail in 2 weeks, max.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Here are pics of the cracked welds, just to prove that I am not some hack who clearly wrecked his bike and is trying to capitalize on a warranty.

    Yikes, dude. On a new bike? Unless you're 300 pounds and hitting six foot drops, that frame should hold up. I don't know anything about Vassago, but they don't sound quite big enough to handle unanticipated problems that crop up. Maybe they're not big enough to demand good welding and heat treatment from the foreign manufacturers.

    I've only had a handful of failures of parts from the bike manufacturers (as opposed to components), but they have all been reactive and helpful.

    Santa Cruz took two weeks to get me a swing arm after I sent them just a picture of a crack that was almost imperceptible. It took so long because the swing arms had been upgraded. The only ones they had ready to ship were not in my color, so I waited until they painted up another batch.

    Specialized took a couple weeks on a swing arm, from just a phone call from my LBS (who was no even a Specialized dealer). It took so long because the frame was so old that they no longer had parts. They searched through the warehouse until they found a used one that was in reasonable shape.

    Ibis had new carbon rims delivered in just a couple days, after a phone call from my other LBS.

    So there ARE companies that take care of their end users. Maybe you could squeeze Vassago into refunding your money or giving you a different frame. Sell the other frame, and then buy something from a company that builds a durable product. It sucks to have thrown down cash on something you thought was good, only to discover that it's not good enough, and you'll end up having to take a hit on it.

    Good luck.
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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Still likely going to stick with bigger companies from now on.
    Oops. I replied before reading ALL the new posts. Glad it worked out for you.

  40. #140
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    Yea I'm not 300lbs... 180 during beer drinking season, closer to 155-160 during race season. Just junk welds it seems like.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Yea I'm not 300lbs... 180 during beer drinking season, closer to 155-160 during race season. Just junk welds it seems like.
    Not a betting man, but I would have bet those welds would have failed no matter who rode the bike.

    Surprised they passed a visual inspection. If they were suspect they should have been x-rayed, but hey, we're talking about Taiwanese made steel frames. My faith in them is pretty low unless it's a company that really gets their hands dirty in the production process, like Surly.
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Donald has done far more good then Obama in 2 years, quite amazing actually, so why is he on the list?
    Spot off.
    I wouldn't even get my hair cut except it's near the liquor store and it seems like my eyebrows need trimming now and then.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Or riders with skill.

    I've rode with a ~150 lb pro who has broken just about every bike he's ever owned.
    Ned Overend?
    I wouldn't even get my hair cut except it's near the liquor store and it seems like my eyebrows need trimming now and then.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    OMG! Are you going to be alright snowflake?
    Lol. Invisible rep for you, J.
    I wouldn't even get my hair cut except it's near the liquor store and it seems like my eyebrows need trimming now and then.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Nope, not going to do that unless the other political post are removed or the thread closed.

    Make it right, tired of being bullied by liberal wack jobs, someone has to start standing up to them, enough is enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    OMG! You are right!!!
    ftfy

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by habsfan View Post
    I've never had an warranty issue with Trek - I've busted 2 frames, snapped a couple pivot bolts and warranteed without issue.

    * knock on wood *
    Same. Both were replaced with similar or more recent models in about a week. Very easy to deal with.

    On the other hand I've had a Thomson dropper post go back for warranty replacement 6 times in two years, and then they refused to do anything else for me when I was outside the 2 year window....even though it continued to fail in exactly the same manner. I had to buy another one at a 50% discount. (i would consider another brand, but there's virtually no other options for my seat post diameter)

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Lol. Invisible rep for you, J.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jayem again.
    I'm no help either.

  48. #148
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    Nor am I, Jayem.
    You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

  49. #149
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    Me either... you guys watch too much CNN

  50. #150
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    I will take home roughly $10k more this year due to the tax reform bill. I spent a portion of this in my LBS. Is that ok to be a fan of?

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    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  51. #151
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    I hate warrantees. It involves human interaction, plus makes be feel like a beggar.

    I prefer to buy cheap heavy stuff online, beat it up, and throw it in the garbage if it breaks. Then grab a spare from the garage, or point and click for a replacement.

    That being said, I did recently enter the world of high-end MTB parts for the very first time. I bought an XO shifter (Ebay of course). Your heard right, XO. CARBON cover. $35. It's a 9-speed, to go with my stack of 8 steel 10-speed cogs. I've not weighed yet, but I'm willing to bet my 35 lb bike will be down to 34.9 pounds.

    But as always if I break it, into the garbage it goes.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I will take home roughly $10k more this year due to the tax reform bill. I spent a portion of this in my LBS. Is that ok to be a fan of?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Bike shopper more limited selection available and strong pricing because of demand due to this consumer windfall ....

    Waddarya NUTS ?


    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I hate warrantees. It involves human interaction, plus makes be feel like a beggar.
    When I hear the word warranty it echoes " Exclusions " in my noggin.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I will take home roughly $10k more this year due to the tax reform bill. I spent a portion of this in my LBS. Is that ok to be a fan of?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Or you finally recouped that $10,000 that every person on this Forum lost by now after that debacle of a Health Care Plan that was introduced some 6-7 years ago.

  54. #154
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    Yeah let's leave the political crap out of this

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicane32 View Post
    Or you finally recouped that $10,000 that every person on this Forum lost by now after that debacle of a Health Care Plan that was introduced some 6-7 years ago.
    HAHHAHAAH. Correct. I'm getting hosed b/c of it for sure. Ok, political rant over. Back to warranty talk.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    This specific issue is with a Vassago frame, specifically the newest version of the Jabberwocky. Less than one full season of riding and the welds cracked where the rear triangle meets the seat tube, both sides.

    Initially they were very responsive, but as time has gone on I can't get anything from them. I was told that this was definitely a warranty issue and that I would be receiving a new frame after I sent my cracked one in for "review". Spent $40 shipping it there and they confirmed that it's a legit warranty case.

    So to recap, just pulling dates from my emails:

    May 5th - Emailed about the issue, got a response to send the frame in
    May 12th - Emailed them to confirm they got the frame, which they did
    June 15th - Asked for an update, was told that the new shipment of frames was "held up in customs"... I thought it was standard practice to keep at least a few frames on the shelf for warranty issues. Apparently I was wrong.
    June 28th - Asked for another update, and it's been radio silence since.

    I also tried calling, but no on answers the phone.

    Here are pics of the cracked welds, just to prove that I am not some hack who clearly wrecked his bike and is trying to capitalize on a warranty. As mentioned above, both sides. The frame has been ridden hard but never wrecked any worse than an every day run of the mill tip over.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Contact them through Vassago's Failbook page. Usually results in very prompt replies.
    It ain't supposed to be easy.

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  57. #157
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    The actual cause of the failure doesn't matter; if you have a "replacement no matter what" promise, hucking the bike off a bridge could well entitle you to a replacement.
    Bullshit. You break a component a tiny company may give you a rough time. I've witnessed it where the suspicion was that a bike was used outside its intend use. A larger established company will replace that component with quick turn around (as per my pleasant experiences w/ Santa Cruz and Gary Fisher). But suffer a catastrophic injury as a result of a failure and then it's finger pointing all around.
    CRAP... I'm in the wrong gear

  58. #158
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    The Specialized I bought last year had a wobble in the crank and a tick sound. Under warranty the dealer swapped out the entire crank-set for a new one, replaced bottom bracket and upgraded the pedals on the spot too. A few months later I noticed an issue with the rear tire and they swapped that out for a new one as well. It was impressive! Glad I went with them as opposed to an online order.

  59. #159
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    Here's another statically useless but totally true personal experience.

    I started riding MX and BMX at age 5. Rode MX and sportbikes into my late 20s. Got into MTBing about ten years ago.

    I've never broken a frame. Never destroyed a wheel - not even so much as busted a spoke. I weigh 175, and with a MX background, I descend hard. It's not that I'm just riding bike paths.

    I've never filed a warranty claim of any kind - the closest I've came to it is DOA gear that doesn't install properly and gets exchanged or returned.

    I have had some gear break or wear out faster than I'd like. I rode SRAM grip shifters a long time - I really liked keeping my thumb on the grips at all times. 3x9, 2x10, 1x11. But I kept breaking them. Now I'm on SRAM triggers. I've smashed my fair share of rear derailleurs and a few hangers. I've cut a few tires but now I use tougher tires and (knock on wood) have worn out many rear tires and several front tires without having to retire them early due to damage.

    Anyway, for the OP - change your expectations or change your equipment. If steel keeps breaking... um... try something else?

  60. #160
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    Lots of folks here have no clue how 'warranties' actually work and the legal T&C's accompanying them.

    Manuf are constantly balancing replacing product no hassle vs investigating fraudulent claims cause some dude wants some new shiny bits. I'm guessing the later is more common that the former.

    Based on my experience and that of many friends, if you are the *original* owner, you have a receipt and it was not abused/mis-used, 99% of warranty claims are processed without issue.

    There are of course some cases that fall into the dreaded grey zone where there is a disagreement. The majority of times this is handled by getting a pro-deal/shop price. While not a "free" frame, is is fair and equitable for both parties.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Or riders with skill.

    I've rode with a ~150 lb pro who has broken just about every bike he's ever owned.
    Most pro's / skilled riders are super smooth, particularly the XC guys. Nothing is harder on a bike than big, new, clumsy riders, they are the ones breaking frames....not the seasoned riders.

    Unless he is riding red-bull rampage or crankworx

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by aborgman View Post
    They can't.

    ...but that is also a choice of the manufacturer. Some manufacturers (not just talking bikes) have lifetime warranties, and some have lifetime warranties to the original owner.

    Some companies will just replace the product under warranty whether you're the 1st or 21st owner.
    I don't know any bike companies that do that. They may have for a special case, but if your are not original, no bueno. It's a built in warranty expiration date, they know folks buy an sell bikes on a re-occurring basis and on average, it works out in their favor.

    Out of curiosity, what companies offer product warranties on somebody who is not the original owner?

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizRider View Post
    I don't know any bike companies that do that. They may have for a special case, but if your are not original, no bueno. It's a built in warranty expiration date, they know folks buy an sell bikes on a re-occurring basis and on average, it works out in their favor.

    Out of curiosity, what companies offer product warranties on somebody who is not the original owner?
    Only cars and only because the federal government mandated it 50+ years ago.

    It actually helps new car sales to retain value in (corrected) *used* cars. So manufacturers do care about the resale value of their cars. Plus when cars need major parts, the manufacturer sells them.

    This is not at all true for bicycles. Manufacturers do not sell parts of significance after the sale. They don't care what their bikes are worth on the secondary market.

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    Last edited by ColinL; 07-27-2018 at 08:47 AM.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Only cars and only because the federal government mandated it 50+ years ago.

    It actually helps new car sales to retain value in new cars. So manufacturers do care about the resale value of their cars. Plus when cars need major parts, the manufacturer sells them.

    This is not at all true for bicycles. Manufacturers do not sell parts of significance after the sale. They don't care what their bikes are worth on the secondary market.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    A select few high end audio manufacturers have transferable warranties, but yes, with anything high end a transferable warranty is the exception.

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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArizRider View Post
    Most pro's / skilled riders are super smooth, particularly the XC guys. Nothing is harder on a bike than big, new, clumsy riders, they are the ones breaking frames....not the seasoned riders.

    Unless he is riding red-bull rampage or crankworx
    I wouldn't be so sure about that.

    I know lots of expert riders that have broken bikes recently, because they are not sponsored, they either have to warranty or deal with the problem themselves. I know a few pros that have too in the local area. One thing going for the sponsored pros is that their bikes are taken apart, everything is inspected and then put together, they don't ride the same stuff more than a season, and this gives opportunity to catch any issues. The reason is very important, not finishing a race can totally hose your results/points, so they want to be as sure as possible that their stuff is going to work.

    I would agree that they ride fairly "smart", not bumbling like a newbie that crashes into a post or something, a fair amount of damage happens from that kind of stuff, but I wouldn't saw these guys are all that much smoother than regular riders. Sometimes they have bigger **** and take bigger risks, but if anything, they push their equipment harder and further than most riders.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Only cars and only because the federal government mandated it 50+ years ago.
    Not only cars.

    Some audio equipment companies do, some guitar/bass amplifier companies, certain home products companies (windows, roofing, etc.), certain optics and camera lenses, some HVAC companies....

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Forgot to Obama to your list.
    And me.

    I'm sure I had something to do with it.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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