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  1. #101
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    He was talking about DH. I don't think anyone is debating that 160mm of travel is more than enough for most trail systems.
    I thought he meant downhill on most trail systems, which would make sense, but my short travel 29er won't be making an appearance at rotura, whistler, or windrock. It's not the right tool for the job.

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I thought he meant downhill on most trail systems, which would make sense, but my short travel 29er won't be making an appearance at rotura, whistler, or windrock. It's not the right tool for the job.

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    Well he kept using capital DH, talked about DH bikes and race courses but I'm honestly not sure what he was going on about.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I thought he meant downhill on most trail systems, which would make sense, but my short travel 29er won't be making an appearance at rotura, whistler, or windrock. It's not the right tool for the job.

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    I have not ridden at Whistler or Windrock, but spent three days at Rotorua on a hardtail and it was more than enough bike for 95% of the riding there.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    I have not ridden at Whistler or Windrock, but spent three days at Rotorua on a hardtail and it was more than enough bike for 95% of the riding there.
    I always just see the "sick" edits on pinkbike of people jumping all the way down the mountain.

    Ill avoid those lines and hang with you.

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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Well he kept using capital DH, talked about DH bikes and race courses but I'm honestly not sure what he was going on about.
    Yeah, ill just sit this one out. I reread it and im still confused lol.

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  6. #106
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    One of the most fun bikes I ever had is 2010 Santa Cruz Blur. Light, nimble and flickable, with 100mm suspension and 22lb weight. I still keep it. I think it all depends where you mainly ride. In my area anything over 120mm travel is overkill. I will disagree about the weight. I think it matters. I can definitively feel the difference between 22 and 30 lb. My fatbike stands at 28 lbs. My friend's at 38. We are about the same shape but I leave him in the dust when we ride together on the trail.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by k^2 View Post
    One of the most fun bikes I ever had is 2010 Santa Cruz Blur. Light, nimble and flickable, with 100mm suspension and 22lb weight. I still keep it. I think it all depends where you mainly ride. In my area anything over 120mm travel is overkill. I will disagree about the weight. I think it matters. I can definitively feel the difference between 22 and 30 lb. My fatbike stands at 28 lbs. My friend's at 38. We are about the same shape but I leave him in the dust when we ride together on the trail.
    8 lbs is a huge weight difference and I don't think anyone is saying that weight doesn't matter at all. Like you said, it really depends on where you ride but there is no way I am saving 8 lbs from where my bike is now without getting a bike that is much more XC oriented than my Ibis HD4 is and that just sounds horrible to me.

    I think the only right answer here is that everyone needs at least 8 (possibly 10) bikes in their stable.

  8. #108
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    Apparently I've been doing it wrong all this time.

    Alas, I'll continue to shop for a rigid carbon fork for my 26er hardtail.

    Preferably with enough rake to put the front hub directly under the handlebar.
    The above statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration

  9. #109
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    "I think the only right answer here is that everyone needs at least 8 (possibly 10) bikes in their stable."

    i tend to agree...

  10. #110
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    Next thing you know someone will come along and claim that riding a mountain bike -- even an XC race bike -- is more fun than riding a road bike.

    Where will it end?
    =sParty

    P.S. Obviously everyone already knows this is true.
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  11. #111
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    So what you're saying is that having equipment for doing a wider variety of riding is more fun?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    I have not ridden at Whistler or Windrock, but spent three days at Rotorua on a hardtail and it was more than enough bike for 95% of the riding there.
    A hardtail can make it down Windrock. They've had a hardtail category at some of the enduro races. However, I don't recommend you try it your first time there... unless you take a gopro and upload the video here.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Next thing you know someone will come along and claim that riding a mountain bike -- even an XC race bike -- is more fun than riding a road bike.

    Where will it end?
    =sParty

    P.S. Obviously everyone already knows this is true.
    Truer words have never been spoken. Or typed....

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    So what you're saying is that having equipment for doing a wider variety of riding is more fun?
    Yes, as long as your wideness stops prior to that road bike Sparticus mentioned. LOL

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Truer words have never been spoken. Or typed....



    Yes, as long as your wideness stops prior to that road bike Sparticus mentioned. LOL
    Road bike >no bike

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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Road bike >no bike

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    Debatable. LOL Not sure why you would be limited to those two choices but, I feel for you.

    On a more serious note, it was just an attempt at a light hearted joke. I have no interest in road bikes at all but more power to the people that do.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    (it's a long one, grab a beer)

    Well, not as fun as a fun bike is. Many of us seek out a bike or brand because "that's what the pro's ride". For some people it makes sense, for most it does not. Not everyone races so why do non racers want to buy "race bikes?"

    It applies to both ends of the spectrum I think, XC and Enduro/DH, and less in between. I admit I have much more personal experience on the shorter travel end of things, but after buying/building a couple of "race specific" bikes the past couple years I realize they're not as fun as my daily riders.

    To me a pure race bike is a focused tool for doing a job, going fast. Often this sacrifices durability, fun factor, versatility, and costs more. Why do we want these? It's a little different if you're in a position to have multiple bikes which includes a "race only" bike, but few are.

    I like racing (XC, Endurance, and CX), mostly for comradery and testing my personal ability both mentally and physically. I've always been of the mentality of having a fun bike I want to ride year round that's race worthy vs. a "race bike" that's fun but too focused and sacrifices durability.

    I recently was brainstorming a new carbon HT 29er specifically for racing (Ibis DV9, mostly because of the attractive price point) but I'm having a hard time justifying it, and have completely put the concept on hold. I'm a fan of the brand, but not so much the geo (Sorry Ibis), but frankly for a "XC hardtail race bike" I don't really care about the geo. (It's an XC hardtail, just get on it and pedal your ass off) It's a race bike and I know I won't have to ride it for more than 2-3 hours at most. (Any race that's longer I use the FS carbon wonder bike.) It will do what I want it to do on race day (The DV9). Funny thing is I know I would never reach for it when going out for a fun ride because compared to my other bikes, well, there is no comparison, I'd rather ride my steel SS.

    On the other end of the scale, Intense just released a statement a few weeks back about how their "refocusing" and "getting back to their racing roots". That's fine and all, and I understand marketing and reasons to "refocus" your business, but what have they been focusing on, fun? Oh the horror.

    That is just one example, but then there's companies like Kona that prioritize fun first, even on some of the race bikes, that along with durability. I'm not saying that all other brands build fragile bikes or anything, but when you read a review of the Process 153 vs other Enduro bikes, the Process doesn't necessarily win on a stopwatch, but the guys reviewing the bikes say they would rather own the "fun" Process with short chainstays at the end of the test, clock be damned.

    Next- weight. I hate a weight weenie conversation when it does not specifically apply to racing at a high level. Put the scale down people. Example: Someone starts a thread about finally acquiring their dream bike which happened to be a comparatively inexpensive hardtail beloved for it's fun factor. The first comment is "what does it weigh?" No "congratulations" or "nice bike". Someone is all jazzed up about "new bike day", and spreading stoke, and all people seem to care about is the numbers on a scale. Why? Who cares? It's the dream bike, the owner is pumped, it's a good day!

    My fun bikes are quite heavy by most standards. Fatbike- 38lbs, literally everything I want it to be (frame up build) and cannot be improved upon. My SS 29+ bike is 31lbs, again it's my dream build and I wouldn't change a thing. Speed is not a concern and fun factor is maximized for those two. Do I care what the scale reads? No. My SS 29er is a steel frame with high end components and comes in at 24-25lbs, I forget. That's my race bike for XC. (the first two don't get raced) This is also the bike I spend the most time on because it's what I want to ride.

    The Ibis carbon frame would save 3.5 lbs but I'm not interested. The geo doesn't fit my personal preference and I'd rather be on a steel frame. Do I think 3 pounds will change the outcome of a 1-1.5 hour race? No. Usually the gaps are 10's of seconds or minutes, not milliseconds. I also think for most "average/casual" racers there is more to be gained by improving one's fitness and diet than there is from spending $345 on a cassette that is 67 grams lighter. You can't buy speed, there's no hiding in racing.

    Sometimes I feel like the collective community of mountain bikers, especially newer riders, are not only misguided but ill-informed. "Why does my new $6k Trail bike weigh XX lbs?" Here's a better question: Why does some arbitrary number matter? Is it fun to ride? Is the extra 2 lbs keeping you from turning pro? Just go ride it and have fun.

    My priorities are frame geometry and durability first. Everything else comes second and can be changed.

    Why do we care about "race bikes"?
    So many variables here to consider and each of us has a opinion of their own on top of that.

    Race bikes can be plenty comfortable depending on the terrain and ride duration.

    Weight is absolutely a consideration (for me). No doubt about it, I can feel the difference between my HT and my FS (1.5 pounds heavier) on extended climbs (which I have a lot of in my region). And where weight is concerned, rotational weight in particular is an important consideration (for those of us who have extended climbs).

    That said, does riding a heavier bike make you stronger? Yes, it does.
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    That said, does riding a heavier bike make you stronger? Yes, it does.


    Lots of people who ride heavy bikes remain slow and weak. Smart training and more miles will make a rider stronger no matter what the bike weighs.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    So many variables here to consider and each of us has a opinion of their own on top of that.

    Race bikes can be plenty comfortable depending on the terrain and ride duration.

    Weight is absolutely a consideration (for me). No doubt about it, I can feel the difference between my HT and my FS (1.5 pounds heavier) on extended climbs (which I have a lot of in my region). And where weight is concerned, rotational weight in particular is an important consideration (for those of us who have extended climbs).

    That said, does riding a heavier bike make you stronger? Yes, it does.
    No, it doesn't. Riding a 15lb bike or a 40lb bike, I am only capable of producing a given number of watts at a given time. With the light bike I go a certain speed, with the heavier bike I go slower, but it doesn't change the training I'm doing or the impact on my body, long-term.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Lots of people who ride heavy bikes remain slow and weak. Smart training and more miles will make a rider stronger no matter what the bike weighs.
    This.

    There are a lot of people that ride "burly" bikes because they think heavy = strong, and that riding a heavy bike will make them stronger. They are wrong in both scenarios.
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  19. #119
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    I challenge both of you guys to hang your lighter bikes up for two weeks and only ride your heavier bike. You will adapt to the added weight and you be riding the heavier bike as fast as the lighter bike. Then, get back on your lighter bikes and go for PRs!.
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Debatable. LOL Not sure why you would be limited to those two choices but, I feel for you.

    On a more serious note, it was just an attempt at a light hearted joke. I have no interest in road bikes at all but more power to the people that do.
    I was just being silly as well. Take care.

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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    So what you're saying is that having equipment for doing a wider variety of riding is more fun?
    Yeah, I suppose I am saying this. I also have an off-road motorcycle and that's a whole 'nuther brand of fun. And a road bike and a commuter and a singlespeed and an off-road touring bike. Plus some boots & trekking poles, pulaski, McCloud, loppers & hand saw, blah, blah that make being outdoors fun. I enjoy building and maintaining trails as much as I enjoy riding bikes on them.

    There are about a zillion ways to have fun outdoors, maybe my underlying point is that being outdoors is where the fun is. I spend way too much time sitting facing this screen with my fingers on this keyboard wasting a real life inside a virtual environment instead of with my fingers wrapped around a handlebar grip or the handle of a trail tool.

    Back to bikes per se, in the end I'd say ride whatever gives you joy and gets you out -- mountain bike, gravel bike, road bike, e-bike, whatever. It doesn't matter. Have fun, stay healthy, meet people, experience nature, live -- really live -- life.

    Out there. Yeah, live life out there as much as possible. Guess that's my bottom line. Fun is a very broad variable; it's user defined. But for me at least, nature is a critical component. Beyond being a critical component of fun, nature is also a critical component of understanding and embracing humility, of being on The Path.

    Internet forums, not so much.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Yeah, I suppose I am saying this. I also have an off-road motorcycle and that's a whole 'nuther brand of fun. And a road bike and a commuter and a singlespeed and an off-road touring bike. Plus some boots & trekking poles, pulaski, McCloud, loppers & hand saw, blah, blah that make being outdoors fun. I enjoy building and maintaining trails as much as I enjoy riding bikes on them.

    There are about a zillion ways to have fun outdoors, maybe my underlying point is that being outdoors is where the fun is. I spend way too much time sitting facing this screen with my fingers on this keyboard wasting a real life inside a virtual environment instead of with my fingers wrapped around a handlebar grip or the handle of a trail tool.

    Back to bikes per se, in the end I'd say ride whatever gives you joy and gets you out -- mountain bike, gravel bike, road bike, e-bike, whatever. It doesn't matter. Have fun, stay healthy, meet people, experience nature, live -- really live -- life.

    Out there. Yeah, live life out there as much as possible. Guess that's my bottom line. Fun is a very broad variable; it's user defined. But for me at least, nature is a critical component. Beyond being a critical component of fun, nature is also a critical component of understanding and embracing humility, of being on The Path.

    Internet forums, not so much.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    No, it doesn't. Riding a 15lb bike or a 40lb bike, I am only capable of producing a given number of watts at a given time. With the light bike I go a certain speed, with the heavier bike I go slower, but it doesn't change the training I'm doing or the impact on my body, long-term.



    This.

    There are a lot of people that ride "burly" bikes because they think heavy = strong, and that riding a heavy bike will make them stronger. They are wrong in both scenarios.
    Yep, you have to ride outside of your comfort zone on either to get faster.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawgzilla View Post
    I challenge both of you guys to hang your lighter bikes up for two weeks and only ride your heavier bike. You will adapt to the added weight and you be riding the heavier bike as fast as the lighter bike. Then, get back on your lighter bikes and go for PRs!.
    ha ha no.... I have heavy bike 30lbs and light bike 22.5lbs. The heavy bike is simply not as fast. After two weeks you will "feel" the same and the jump on your light bike and it will feel faster. Your body can put a certain level of power and if you are at your max you are at your max. Training makes you faster. The only place a heavy bike helps if you try to go as fast and then go beyond your limits and thereby expand them. However If you are already training hard it won't do much. The fact is however lots of people don't train hard.
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  25. #125
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    id buy whatever bike would be best for where i ride the most. who cares what label its been labeled

  26. #126
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    I don't have access to different bikes but I wonder if XC bikes are really fast. If so, how fast?

    If Emily Batty and Rachel Strait swap bikes on 1 km pavement and 1 km flowy trails, will Rachel tend to win because she is using Emily's Trek racing machine?

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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by gat3keeper View Post
    I don't have access to different bikes but I wonder if XC bikes are really fast. If so, how fast?

    If Emily Batty and Rachel Strait swap bikes on 1 km pavement and 1 km flowy trails, will Rachel tend to win because she is using Emily's Trek racing machine?

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    No, because Emily Batty is a world class XC racer, and Rachel Strait isnít an XC racer at all.

    Emily would beat her on an Enduro sled, too.


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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    No, because Emily Batty is a world class XC racer, and Rachel Strait isnít an XC racer at all.

    Emily would beat her on an Enduro sled, too.


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    That's what I thought too...

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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    No, because Emily Batty is a world class XC racer, and Rachel Strait isnít an XC racer at all.

    Emily would beat her on an Enduro sled, too.


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    I agree. Bike to some extent is only 1% of the speed.

    I mean if you put Emily Batty on a downhill or dirt jump bike and Rachel Strait on the XC bike then I think Rachel Strait would win. But ignoring those extreme situations.

    Also I bet if you reversed the situation and put them in an enduro with the enduro racer on an XC bike and the XC racer on an enduro bike, the enduro racer would still win.
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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    I agree. Bike to some extent is only 1% of the speed.

    I mean if you put Emily Batty on a downhill or dirt jump bike and Rachel Strait on the XC bike then I think Rachel Strait would win. But ignoring those extreme situations.

    Also I bet if you reversed the situation and put them in an enduro with the enduro racer on an XC bike and the XC racer on an enduro bike, the enduro racer would still win.
    Iím not so sure.

    There are plenty of people whose riding style has become such that they literally cannot ride without a full on DH tire front and rear. Or, at least, have to dial it way back.

    See Marc Beaumont vs Schurter on GCN.


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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by gat3keeper View Post
    That's what I thought too...

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    That is not the right question.
    We need to ask how much faster is a rider on the XC racing bike compare to the same rider on another bike.
    Same rider, different bikes. For example, Emily on the XC racing bike vs Emily on an enduro bike.

  32. #132
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    Ultimately it is 90% rider and 10% bike.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Ultimately it is 90% rider and 10% bike.

    I disagree with this. My friend is a very competent rider whose old bike was stolen a few years ago. He bought a new bike and his downhill speeds picked up dramatically overnight. I see this happen often enough to believe that the right bike is a big part of the equation.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by j102 View Post
    That is not the right question.
    We need to ask how much faster is a rider on the XC racing bike compare to the same rider on another bike.
    Same rider, different bikes. For example, Emily on the XC racing bike vs Emily on an enduro bike.
    That's one way to test a bike. I agree.

    But my example will also test if it's the rider or the bike. If Rachel wins using XC bike, vs Emily on enduro. Then we all have to agree that XC bikes are really fasylt by "significant margin".

    I saw lota of youtuber testing xc vs trail/enduro bikes and they are just faster by 1 or 2 sec on xc. A win is a win, yes? But if thats the case, I think XC bikes are kinda over rated. They are faster, but not blazing fast imho.

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  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Ultimately it is 90% rider and 10% bike.
    I think I could beat Nino up a climb if he had to be on a DH bike.

    I think the true point is that the bike helps maximize the rider for the format. So, an enduro-style bike might be 90% optimal for an XC course, where the XC bikes are fighting over 97-100% fit. In the same sense, maybe the XC bike is only 50% suitable for DH.

    XC bikes _are_ faster than Enduro bikes, at XC stuff. Now, if a rider was 30% faster than me across the board, it probably also means that they could beat me up a hill on an Enduro bike while I'm on my preferred XC whip.

  36. #136
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    If uncertainty of which bike is best is taking away from your enjoyment of riding, buy a rigid singlespeed and be confident that you're on the wrong bike and in the wrong gear at all times, on all trails, in all formats of mountain biking

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I disagree with this. My friend is a very competent rider whose old bike was stolen a few years ago. He bought a new bike and his downhill speeds picked up dramatically overnight. I see this happen often enough to believe that the right bike is a big part of the equation.
    Well, of course you can take it to an extreme and skew the results but, if we are talking a 30 lb trail bike vs a 23 lb XC bike (both of them being somewhat modern), I stand by my statement.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Well, of course you can take it to an extreme and skew the results but, if we are talking a 30 lb trail bike vs a 23 lb XC bike (both of them being somewhat modern), I stand by my statement.
    There was not much weight difference, certainly not extreme, if anything the new bike is heavier. Both are solidly in the trail bike segment but the new one is clearly much faster. Same trails, rider, skill and, fitness.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    There was not much weight difference, certainly not extreme, if anything the new bike is heavier. Both are solidly in the trail bike segment but the new one is clearly much faster. Same trails, rider, skill and, fitness.
    Back to the whole modern bike thing.....

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Well, of course you can take it to an extreme and skew the results but, if we are talking a 30 lb trail bike vs a 23 lb XC bike (both of them being somewhat modern), I stand by my statement.
    I have both a modern trail (30lbs) and XC bike (22.5lbs). Uphill it is easily 90% rider, 10% bike, but that 10% is so obvious riding back to back. Downhill it very terrain dependent. On XC ish trails it is 99% rider 1% bike. This is to mean both bikes are limited by the rider more than the bike and will give similar times. Only as the trail gets gnarly does a gap emerge where the trail bike goes faster. Even then however a dropper post does wonders to expand the DH tech capabilities of an XC bike. At the far end of gnar I would say it is 80% rider and 20% bike. This based on months of riding these bikes by one rider and looking at strava times.

    I think the real takeway is that XC race bikes are fun and fast on most trails. If the only trails you ride a super gnar then they are a poor choice, but when you have mixed terrain they can be wicked fast and very fun. Light XC bikes actually make climbing fun. Same for flatish twisting trails where you have do a lot of cornering.
    Joe
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  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I have both a modern trail (30lbs) and XC bike (22.5lbs). Uphill it is easily 90% rider, 10% bike, but that 10% is so obvious riding back to back. Downhill it very terrain dependent. On XC ish trails it is 99% rider 1% bike. This is to mean both bikes are limited by the rider more than the bike and will give similar times. Only as the trail gets gnarly does a gap emerge where the trail bike goes faster. Even then however a dropper post does wonders to expand the DH tech capabilities of an XC bike. At the far end of gnar I would say it is 80% rider and 20% bike. This based on months of riding these bikes by one rider and looking at strava times.

    I think the real takeway is that XC race bikes are fun and fast on most trails. If the only trails you ride a super gnar then they are a poor choice, but when you have mixed terrain they can be wicked fast and very fun. Light XC bikes actually make climbing fun. Same for flatish twisting trails where you have do a lot of cornering.
    I rode with a buddy of mine last weekend that has a Specialized Epic Carbon. Pretty sure he said it weighs right around 23 if I remember right. I rode my 32 lb HD4. We did 15 miles that was a mix of up and down with some good chunky descents. Nothing steep at all really. Trails by his house that he is really familiar with so he was leading. I was certainly a little jealous on the way up but watching his bike deflect off the chunk on the way down made that my bike was eating up me feel better about lugging my bike up the hill. All in all I would definitely say the loop we did was more XC oriented than anything and no doubt his bike would be faster overall but there were some bonus lines that included some decent drops and jumps. I can't say no that stuff and he can. I guess I could probably ride the same lines on a XC bike if I had to but I am not sure how long the frame would withstand the beating? And you certainly don't have much of a safety factor riding stuff like that on a XC bike.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I disagree with this. My friend is a very competent rider whose old bike was stolen a few years ago. He bought a new bike and his downhill speeds picked up dramatically overnight. I see this happen often enough to believe that the right bike is a big part of the equation.
    I've seen that riding DH. A buddy had a 140mm trail bike and there were a few things he wouldn't hit that I was hitting on my trail bike. He got a DH bike and within a 2-3 months was hitting huge drops and jumps (stuff I'm not sure I want to do on a trail bike).

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    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    If uncertainty of which bike is best is taking away from your enjoyment of riding, buy a rigid singlespeed and be confident that you're on the wrong bike and in the wrong gear at all times, on all trails, in all formats of mountain biking
    Someone gets it.

    Just embrace it.
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Someone gets it.

    Just embrace it.
    Don't you dare try to end this argument now, *OneSpeed*!
    What do you think MTBR is all about, anyway?
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    Here's another option. Start a new thread: "Internet forums without arguments are more fun"
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  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    If uncertainty of which bike is best is taking away from your enjoyment of riding, buy a rigid singlespeed and be confident that you're on the wrong bike and in the wrong gear at all times, on all trails, in all formats of mountain biking
    best post of the thread...

  46. #146
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    I rode my XC race bike in Texas and I had fun

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I rode my XC race bike in Texas and I had fun
    Yeahbutt not as much fun as you COULD have had.
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    An odd premise for me, and my kid.

    On this same Spring break trip last year he brought his race bike and demo'ed a Fugitive and Ripley.

    This year he planned to do the same but instead just rode his latest race bike. Still had tons of fun.


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    Race bikes are the reason 26in is dead and that is unfortunate IMO.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Someone gets it.

    Just embrace it.
    Just make sure itís a SS race bike.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Yeahbutt not as much fun as you COULD have had.
    =sParty
    Naw, I like to go fast...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  52. #152
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    Looking bikes online...

    XC bikes is now with 120mm and 130mm travel...

    Hmm, my 2018 trail bike is 120mm.. What's going on?

    Sent from my ASUS_X00QD using Tapatalk

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by gat3keeper View Post

    XC bikes is now with 120mm and 130mm travel...
    The top XC racing bikes, scott, trek, specialized, all have 100mm in the rear still. There are a few that come with a 120mm fork now, but most or all of the pros running the bikes in races are on a 100mm fork. I notice a big difference going up really steep stuff going from a 100 to 120mm fork. For XC racing, I greatly prefer the 100mm. For general tooling around, I like the 120mm.

    A general "XC" bike, as in where you can ride up and down stuff with relative ease and comfort, sure, 120-130mm makes a lot of sense. I also call these "trail bikes". XC bikes for the normal person.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    For XC racing, I greatly prefer the 100mm. For general tooling around, I like the 120mm.
    Hey Jayem, no doubt *OneSpeed* will be along shortly to confirm that you just proved the original point of this thread.
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    "I notice a big difference going up really steep stuff going from a 100 to 120mm fork."

    In what way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddoh View Post
    "I notice a big difference going up really steep stuff going from a 100 to 120mm fork."

    In what way?
    It makes the hills 20mm higher.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Hey Jayem, no doubt *OneSpeed* will be along shortly to confirm that you just proved the original point of this thread.
    =sParty
    Yeah, kind of makes all previous arguments/rants go right out the window.

    No doubt he'll be back here shortly to tell me how I'm still wrong. Or to thoroughly explain how so many people are over-biked. Oh right, we already covered that.
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    What is a "fun bike" and where are all these people who are rushing to buy "race bikes"? On my rides, I mostly see trail bikes not 100mm bikes or 170mm bikes. What am I missing here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    What is a "fun bike" and where are all these people who are rushing to buy "race bikes"? On my rides, I mostly see trail bikes not 100mm bikes or 170mm bikes. What am I missing here?
    Are you entering races? That's where the race bikes are. Look for a serious looking group of lycra-clad grape smugglers who're all puffed up and posturing. They've got the bikes... and the attitude.
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    The OP is talking about non race situations. He said clearly that race bikes are cool if if you race. But insinuated it's not so cool when you don't. Like race bikes are some sort of plague affecting all mountain bikers. Yet for every Top Fuel I see on the trail, I see about 20 Fuels. For every Epic, I see about 15 Stumpjumpers.

    Even on the Enduro end, I rarely see a Slash or an Enduro. I guess I am just scratching my head about what this is all about.

  61. #161
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    Race bikes aren't as fun

    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post

    Yet for every Top Fuel I see on the trail, I see about 20 Fuels. For every Epic, I see about 15 Stumpjumpers.
    The Epic and Top Fuel cost more, that is why you see less of them. Only for that reason. If I could afford one (either) of them I would be buying it.
    I donít race official events. But I ride with friends and we try to go as fast as we can. We also do long/endurance rides. We like light and agile bikes. We find race oriented geometry bikes super fun. We like to go fast, corner fast, and climb fast. Itís fun.

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I rode my XC race bike in Texas and I had fun

    Jayem, you seemed under-biked for that trail. A shuttle ride to the "top" and a 160mm full suspension rig was definitely called for. That could not have been a fun experience for you, I'm sorry.

    (HaHa.... indicating sarcasm to the humorless on the forum)
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    Quote Originally Posted by j102 View Post
    The Epic and Top Fuel cost more, that is why you see less of them. Only for that reason. If I could afford one (either) of them I would be buying it.
    I donít race official events. But I ride with friends and we try to go as fast as we can. We also do long/endurance rides. We like light and agile bikes. We find race oriented geometry bikes super fun. We like to go fast, corner fast, and climb fast. Itís fun.
    This^^^^
    Consciousness, that annoying time between bike rides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lopaka View Post
    Jayem, you seemed under-biked for that trail. A shuttle ride to the "top" and a 160mm full suspension rig was definitely called for. That could not have been a fun experience for you, I'm sorry.

    (HaHa.... indicating sarcasm to the humorless on the forum)
    Troof. Needed to haul a few IPAs iand potato chips n my fanny pack and session some stuff.
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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Are you entering races? That's where the race bikes are. Look for a serious looking group of lycra-clad grape smugglers who're all puffed up and posturing. They've got the bikes... and the attitude.
    =sParty

    lol...uh...aren't you describing road bikers instead?

    Not to get off-topic but I've been following 14 people on Strava, all originally from a top-10 finisher in some downhill segment I'm interested in, and unfortunately many of them are simply logging road bike miles, like 40-110 miles in one day. That's great, very admirable, but it doesn't help me as a mountain biker find out what other trails they are going on; the road biking drowns out the offroad activity. Most of these guys are training for races, I assume road bike races, but even so, in a strange way it's boring for me too, race bikes are not as fun to observe either lol. Is road racing almost a prerequisite for offroad racing? I need to follow more 'all' mountain bikers on there, less road bikers. Some of the mountain bikes the racers have are really stripped down XC bikes that they use to haul ass on relatively hardpacked trails and fire roads, and again it's great they are doing this, very impressive, but it's not for me. I'd rather have fun on a heavier bike, but I still wonder what a 20-25 lb mountain bike would be like for climbing.
    From Ancient Times - Scarlet Skies Burn to Ash

  66. #166
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    If you want to find interesting people to follow, just fire up strava flybys on a ride you did, have a look and see if there are any interesting people, follow them. If it turns out they aren't riding stuff that interests you...stop following them.
    All the gear and no idea.

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    I get a lot of requests on what bike to buy. I just tell people to ride as many as they can and buy the one that puts the biggest smile on their face. End of story.

    Regardless, I always wanted "real live race skis." I don't mean the ones you see in shops that say they are race skis. I'm talking about FIS legal skis used on the World Cup hand built by trolls in a secret Apine cave. A buddy of mine, who is an FIS judge, got me a pair of World Cup legal slalom skis. Everyone said they would be too stiff, or too twitchy or this, that and the other thing. Best damn skis I've ever had! Fun everywhere except in powder so I have fat skis too.

    Anyway, there are going to be riders who really love race bikes because that puts the biggest smile on their face.

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