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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    Beer is about the last thing I ever yearn for, so this is an easy call for me.

    Rare exception was on my first hike in the Grand Canyon, upon arrival at Phantom Ranch. Those shitty overpriced (but ICE COLD) cans of Tecate were amazeballs. Three of them, combined with mild dehydration, made for a lotta blurry photos afterwards.
    In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.

    This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The post-ride DUI-out-office-broken-top.jpg  


  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    .
    4. In IL (where I used to live), you can get a DUI/DWI while riding a bike. In IL, (specifically Peoria and Tazewell counties) riding your bike while buzzed/drunk does not provide you with loophole to avoid a DUI/DWI.
    This is actually true in most states. Just like bicycles are considered a standard mode of transportation, you are "supposed" to abide by the laws of the road when riding on one. So, signaling before turns, stopping at stop signs/lights, yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. all apply. Most officers will not harass you unless you do something stupid like blow through an intersection/stop light/etc. But that is completely up to them.

    The bad thing about all of this is we have more than a few YouTube MTBrs that are getting famous and have "trailside beers" in their videos. This being shown on a regular basis to younger viewers is reinforcing the understanding that not only is this acceptable but "normal" by all intents and purposes. I have seen/witnessed this "younger generation" then get supremely pissed when a cop rolls by and sees them having trail beers only to stop and question them. This becomes "the man" harassing them and shines an unflattering light on not only LEA but also on the mtb community. Hell, witnessed this last month after some riders got done, threw open the bed of their big ole truck to then unfold the lawn chairs and put a cooler between the two of them and commence having said trail beers. This was at a public park, where the TH was, and their were HS softball games going on some 100yds away. All it would have taken is a parent not liking the situation and them to get on the horn with LEA, or another trail user not liking it and calling them in.

    I do like the idea of the "vanlife" situation throwing a whole wrench into everything as that is a whole different dynamic. Most of those individuals though are more "setup" for that type of situation and usually openly leave their doors open to see their living quarters. However, that could instigate a different type of stop as they could be potentially staying/parked in a location that is not an open camping location.

    Main take away from this is JUST DON'T DO IT! No trail beer will taste that good, and really it doesn't normally take much to get everyone to a restaurant to commence the "consumption of mass quantities" recount the ride detail and be all good.

    Oh and to @bingemtbr's #1 point... hell look at Pliny the Elder.. comes in a 22oz bottle normally and has an 8% ABV!!! But those are dangerous because they are sooooooooo good and go down sooooooo easily! Or if you are not an IPA drinker, most STOUTS have at least 7-9% ABV.

  3. #203
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    The ways people try to rationalize drinking and driving is absolutely insane. Great, your idiot parents used to drive around while drinking. I used to drink 12 beers and drive to Tijuana from norcal. Never got caught, never had an accident, but jeez. I have the sense to at least admit that that was a TERRIBLE idea. People have half that amount of alcohol and kill themselves driving home across town.

    There's no excuses. Have a beer after a ride, wait an hour, and you'll be fine. Any more beers or any less time and you're getting a DUI. Seriously, what do you think you have to gain by pushing it with DUI laws?

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post

    The bad thing about all of this is we have more than a few YouTube MTBrs that are getting famous and have "trailside beers" in their videos. This being shown on a regular basis to younger viewers is reinforcing the understanding that not only is this acceptable but "normal" by all intents and purposes. I have seen/witnessed this "younger generation" then get supremely pissed when a cop rolls by and sees them having trail beers only to stop and question them. This becomes "the man" harassing them and shines an unflattering light on not only LEA but also on the mtb community. Hell, witnessed this last month after some riders got done, threw open the bed of their big ole truck to then unfold the lawn chairs and put a cooler between the two of them and commence having said trail beers. This was at a public park, where the TH was, and their were HS softball games going on some 100yds away. All it would have taken is a parent not liking the situation and them to get on the horn with LEA, or another trail user not liking it and calling them in.
    Man, I feel bad for a lot of you guys wrt to the overbearing enforcement BS (as well as the special type of asshole who would actually call the cops over seeing a beer).

    We have no law against public drinking where I live; you can crack one wherever you want (except in the car, of course). Same goes if you want to spark up a joint. It's practically like living in a free country!
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Man, I feel bad for a lot of you guys wrt to the overbearing enforcement BS (as well as the special type of asshole who would actually call the cops over seeing a beer).

    We have no law against public drinking where I live; you can crack one wherever you want (except in the car, of course). Same goes if you want to spark up a joint. It's practically like living in a free country!
    Well, we both live in New England. Iíve been here for over 50 years. What town or state around here permits open container?

    Maybe Iím provincial, but nowhere in Massachusetts. NH, could be, but still have my doubts.


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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravewoofer View Post
    nowhere in Massachusetts.
    Actually sir, you are mistaken. Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually sir, you are mistaken. Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.
    With a brewery and trails too.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.

    This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:
    I was subscribed to that theory some time ago too. Used to haul a fat can of Stella, Kilt Lifter, or Sapporo, along with a nice cigar, up the mountain and take some time to soak in the views and relax with those tasty vices. The beer thing kinda got boring though partly because I rarely had much desire to finish it, and it was never cold by the time I got to the top. Being in the desert southwest doesn't help with that though.

    Good times =)

    The post-ride DUI-15259784_10209321988679761_1218959907603582580_o.jpg

    The post-ride DUI-10631145_10206790906844297_6526424636181322124_o.jpg

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.

    This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:
    Hmm, I much prefer an imperial stout at the top of a climb. But, I'm extremely weird.

    Nothing at the trailhead though and typically a couple of hours between consumption and driving.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Wow. This thread is an eye opener. A few thoughts:

    1. 2.5 IPAs and you blow a .08 is very real if you are drinking a double IPA (my go to is Bells Hopslam).
    I think 2.5 of whatever is likely too much.

    In the past, I would drive right after one beer with food. Never more than one though so that I'd have a safety factor going.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  11. #211
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    Last nights post ride libations were shared among 3 of us. We shared one 12oz Single IPA and 1 22oz Double IPA.

    So that is about 11oz of beer each?

    Moderation is the key.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Moderation is the key.
    I give up moderation for Lent.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    The beer thing kinda got boring though partly because I rarely had much desire to finish it, and it was never cold by the time I got to the top. Being in the desert southwest doesn't help with that though.
    I don't know if I could finish a thick beer but a weak American lager goes down nicely. I have an elaborate set up involving beer can-shaped freezer ice blocks that go inside an insulated backpack. It keeps the beer frosty and the food cool too.

    AndThe post-ride DUI-ice-packs.jpg

    The post-ride DUI-igloo-backpack.jpg

  14. #214
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    I have one of these, but the only time Iíve ridden with it is working a race (and I usually carry a huge Trango climbing bag for that). Itís a handy bag for casual hikes, watching fireworks, etc.



    https://www.dakine.com/en-us/bags/ba...arty-pack-28l/

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I have one of these, but the only time Iíve ridden with it is working a race (and I usually carry a huge Trango climbing bag for that). Itís a handy bag for casual hikes, watching fireworks, etc.
    Oooooooh, nice.

    Pshhhht! Glug glug glug.

  16. #216
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    I went full retard a few months ago because reasons and lost my license for 3 months and my truck was impounded for a month. I got my license back just before the Christmas shutdown (after hemorrhaging money on fines and driver courses) I got 5 points on my license but didn't get a criminal record for my actions because I was honest with the officer that busted me. It was a learning experience and while I wasn't able to drive I biked to work every day (I got a lot of funny looks when it was -30C and my facial hair was frozen solid!) Moral of the story: don't be stupid!

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    The post-ride DUI

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually sir, you are mistaken. Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.
    ...


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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Moderation is the key.
    To give reason to follow this, it helps to understand what exactly you're putting in your body and how it handles it.

    One primary danger of alcohol happens when you overwhelm your body's production of enzymes that break down the carcinogenic parts of alcohol (acetaldehyde). The enzymes normally break down this carcinogen quickly, into harmless compounds, but there's only so much it can manage at once. There will be observable localized damage where the alcohol is broken down in the body, including the liver and brain, where the carcinogens damage DNA, progressing into health issues such as liver cirrhosis and cancer. The body's production rate of the important enzymes (ALDH2) varies from person to person, and those who produce very little should exercise more strict moderation.

    A secondary danger of alcohol is acidosis (excessive [lactic] acid build-up) and hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), which leads to other health issues related to weight gain and fatty liver, which includes heart attack and perhaps even stroke. The alcohol disrupts the internal balance (homeostasis) in the body, and if consumed excessively, will show with the usual signs such as motor function impairment, mental information processing impairment, & passing out, as well as longer term signs such as beer belly. As others have said, it's not wise to drink on an empty stomach.

    There's also the metabolic reasons for not drinking, mostly surrounding the interruption of the liver's function. It's highly advised not to drink alcohol with medication, for example.

    I stay away since my body has a different make-up, being oriental. This can be observed through a red-flushed face and generally I don't feel anything pleasant from drinking. I just see "liquid courage" as something that makes you act without thinking. I have a friend who vapes weed, and I even stay away from that, since I feel it makes me do the opposite, making me think without acting.

    Ask law enforcement officers about what substances causes the most damage to others/society, in $$$$, and a large portion would say alcohol, perhaps by a landslide, depending on the area (example). There are a few areas where opiods are on the rise that are gaining more attention though.

    True alcoholics can't have just 11 oz, or a couple beers. They've experienced binge drinking, and it's very easy to drink as much as that when there is any sort of urge. I wouldn't expect some reformed alcoholic to be able to moderate or abstain by someone who has always abstained or moderated. There's a severe risk of relapse because there's no rebuilding the natural mental barriers that keep them from doing that much, once they broken them down and paved a way over them by repeatedly tracking over it. Their bodies have adapted to being more of an "alcohol receptacle" as well, taking more of it to get a certain level of satisfaction.

    I didn't research anything specific to write this post, so nothing to cite, but you can verify with google search. Became interested and gained knowledge since I used to like watching chubbyemu's youtube videos and ran across this a long while ago: https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA72/AA72.htm

    ----

    @bachman1961 I didn't specify what type of self-reward my friends do. They simply do fast food, as far as I as I know. I just abstain from self-reward culture in general, the concept of rewarding myself something for accomplishing something. I instead look at my purchases as practical solutions and also experiments, typically in the name of useful progress. I'd rather reward others, if I were fortunate enough to build a larger table to treat them. At the very least, I'm not building stronger/taller walls and blaming people on the other side for making living out in the big world difficult due to all the rules and higher standards to ensure a healthier society.

    The rationalization people use to justify alcohol is hyperbole. I do think people should abstain. There's health benefits from the grain used to make the beer, just like wine has anti-oxidants from grapes. Fiber lowers the risk of heart disease, but I'll still be questioning the overall healthiness of something marketing this (e.g. bread). I suspect the negatives more than negate the positives. If I were to rank water, cola, sweet tea, milkshake, latte, beer, etc. there'd be a pointless fight regarding what's worst. I just avoid the fight and go for water, which is likely at/near the top.

  19. #219
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    The post-ride DUI

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually sir, you are mistaken. Westminster MA has no public drinking bylaws. You can walk your dog around the 'hood with a tasty beverage in hand and no one will give a damn. We do a number of other things here that I often hear people saying "you can't do that anymore in this country". It's a decent little town.
    I grew up in Bolton, so Iím pretty familiar with Westminster and the surrounding area.

    I amazed at that bylaw in Massachusetts.

    Small towns are interesting.


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  20. #220
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    Nom, nom , nom.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The post-ride DUI-img_20190324_161011695.jpg  

    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravewoofer View Post
    I grew up in Bolton, so Iím pretty familiar with Westminster and the surrounding area.

    I amazed at that bylaw in Massachusetts.

    Small towns are interesting.


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    Yeah. I never even heard of the place til I moved here. Didn't think there was anything outside 495.

    I'm pretty sure the majority of residents aren't even aware of it actually. A buddy that's a cop in town clued me in and I checked it out. Not like I'd abuse it or anything, nor does anyone else seem to, but it's nice to know.
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  22. #222
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    I've gotten a post-ride DUI. Speeding ticket while driving under the influence of mountain biking.
    I'm a genuine "high performance driver"(too bad I can't mtb like I can drive!), but drive a low performance car and keep my foot out of it. Really racked them up when I was younger and drove sports cars. Not so much any more.
    But put me behind the wheel on a fast-moving section of interstate with light traffic while jacked up on endorphins after a few hours of whipping around tight trails, constantly trying to maintain momentum and increase cornering speed...yeah. Grandpa mode is definitely off, and the areas where there *usually*(key word there) isn't any LEO presence is fair game.
    That's what I thought this thread might be about before clicking on it!

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    With a brewery and trails too.
    Coincidentally enough, IMO, the best few miles run directly from my driveway to the brewery's. One of my go-to rides, and place is super dog-friendly.

    I'm long past drinking too much and driving, but as far as having some beers along with riding, or working on trails/jumps/pumptracks, or just hanging, I'm typically in.
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  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    T
    I stay away since my body has a different make-up, being oriental. This can be observed through a red-flushed face and generally I don't feel anything pleasant from drinking. I just see "liquid courage" as something that makes you act without thinking. I have a friend who vapes weed, and I even stay away from that, since I feel it makes me do the opposite, making me think without acting.
    I thought we were supposed to call you asian, and that oriental was an insult.
    Is there a "MTBR guide to race" thread somewhere?

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR1822 View Post
    I thought we were supposed to call you asian, and that oriental was an insult.
    Is there a "MTBR guide to race" thread somewhere?
    Can't speak for ninjichor but when I lived in Japan, I read that somewhere so I asked one of my Japanese coworkers. He said something like "I am oriental. Why would I be insulted?"

    I think the everything insults me thing is an American thing.

    But, just looked it up on Wikipedia:

    "The term Oriental is often used to describe objects from the Orient. However, given its Eurocentric connotations and shifting, inaccurate definition through the ages, it may be considered offensive as a label for people from East Asia."

    But, here's an article that agrees more with my first thought:

    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...nap-story.html

    "A funny thing I noticed is that my Caucasian colleagues, not my Asian colleagues, are most eager to remove Oriental from public discourse."
    By continuing to browse my posts, you agree to send me cookies.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I think the everything insults me thing is an American thing.
    Yes

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    I just defer to what people prefer for themselves. I have a Korean cousin who definitely dislikes ďorientalĒ so thatís good enough for me.

    Itís not always the PC variant, though. Every tribal member Iíve met prefers ďIndianĒ to Native American.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I just defer to what people prefer for themselves. I have a Korean cousin who definitely dislikes ďorientalĒ so thatís good enough for me.

    Itís not always the PC variant, though. Every tribal member Iíve met prefers ďIndianĒ to Native American.
    When I worked on a reservation the natives would refer to themselves as "native." Since I have brown skin some of them would ask me, "Are you native?"

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I have one of these, but the only time Iíve ridden with it is working a race (and I usually carry a huge Trango climbing bag for that). Itís a handy bag for casual hikes, watching fireworks, etc.



    https://www.dakine.com/en-us/bags/ba...arty-pack-28l/
    O-M-G. It's about time this thread delivered something useful.

    I was just lamenting how long it is until Xmas but then remembered that I have a wedding anniversary coming up.

  30. #230
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    The only drawback is that itís not watertight. If you put ice in it, youíll get a leak. Freeze packs are the way to go.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    The ways people try to rationalize drinking and driving is absolutely insane. Great, your idiot parents used to drive around while drinking. I used to drink 12 beers and drive to Tijuana from norcal. Never got caught, never had an accident, but jeez. I have the sense to at least admit that that was a TERRIBLE idea. People have half that amount of alcohol and kill themselves driving home across town.

    There's no excuses. Have a beer after a ride, wait an hour, and you'll be fine. Any more beers or any less time and you're getting a DUI. Seriously, what do you think you have to gain by pushing it with DUI laws?
    The same could be said for many routine violations of the law.
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  32. #232
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    Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.

    Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.

    What I had to go through:

    -6mo license suspension
    -$700 for a hardship license to be able to get to work and back.
    -6mo of an Ignition Interlock Device. HUGE pain in the ass. Had to pay monthly to have it "serviced."
    -12hrs DUI class at my expense.
    -160 hours community service at a recycling plant.
    -3hr Victim Impact Panel. Had to write the judge an essay afterwards.
    -10 day car impound at my house, $150.
    -1 year of probation with random alcohol & drug screening ($50). Basically had to call a # everyday to see if my color was chosen. If it was, I had to be there by 11am otherwise it was considered a Violation Probation.
    -Monthly probation visit @ $55/each time.
    -3mo of "substance abuse counseling." It was bullshit and nothing more than a money grab. The place closed down like 2 months after I finished my sentence. Such bullshit.
    -1 day in jail, credited time served because I spent 14hrs in jail after being arrested.
    -$1700 fine

    So, needless to say I barely drink anymore. Especially not right after a ride in the parking lot or anything. I can't even recall the last time I had a beer. Maybe one in the last 2 months?

    What completely blew my mind was the number of repeat offenders in the DUI class next to mine. They had more people there than in my first violation class. People with 2-4 DUI's. Just absolutely mind bottling.
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  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    In the past couple of years I've developed an appreciation for having an ice cold weak American lager at the summit of a huge hike. There's nothing like sitting down at the top of a climb, looking at an amazing view, breaking out a sandwich and washing it down with a frosty light beer. I have plenty of time to burn it off before I get back to the trailhead and need to drive. Also there's little consequence for hiking while (mildly) impaired.

    This one is a pilsner but you get the idea:

    Sensible way to enjoy a brew IMO as well.

    The lower % beers, some pilsner or lagers are fine with me too. Even if in the mood for a fuller taste, I like the idea of a point or few lower abv.

    I was used to getting beer with groceries and until very recently, that was 3.2 beer versus the beverage store stops that have the standard issue or high test. Just about any time I bought beer at the grocery market, a kind soul if not the checkout person would chime in and say; " Hey, you know that's not the regular beer right ? " .
    I'd say Yes, thank you and be on my way.


    I always thought it would sound 'preachy' if I told them I kind of prefer the lower abv just to be a bit on the safe side (even having one). Now the markets sell the regular abv as some law was passed a few months ago.
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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.

    Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.

    What I had to go through:

    -6mo license suspension
    -$700 for a hardship license to be able to get to work and back.
    -6mo of an Ignition Interlock Device. HUGE pain in the ass. Had to pay monthly to have it "serviced."
    -12hrs DUI class at my expense.
    -160 hours community service at a recycling plant.
    -3hr Victim Impact Panel. Had to write the judge an essay afterwards.
    -10 day car impound at my house, $150.
    -1 year of probation with random alcohol & drug screening ($50). Basically had to call a # everyday to see if my color was chosen. If it was, I had to be there by 11am otherwise it was considered a Violation Probation.
    -Monthly probation visit @ $55/each time.
    -3mo of "substance abuse counseling." It was bullshit and nothing more than a money grab. The place closed down like 2 months after I finished my sentence. Such bullshit.
    -1 day in jail, credited time served because I spent 14hrs in jail after being arrested.
    -$1700 fine

    So, needless to say I barely drink anymore. Especially not right after a ride in the parking lot or anything. I can't even recall the last time I had a beer. Maybe one in the last 2 months?

    What completely blew my mind was the number of repeat offenders in the DUI class next to mine. They had more people there than in my first violation class. People with 2-4 DUI's. Just absolutely mind bottling.
    Takes a real man to admit such things. It's a sign of recognizing that responsibility and authenticity is more valuable than maintaining some front and being a coward, and not owning up to your own shameful decisions.

    Got any more detail that you're willing to share, such as the emotions you felt in response to the various bullet points? This is interesting and potentially very useful information. I googled some of them, but find it hard to relate to the human-side of the story, told by someone who went through it involuntarily. Would help bring some realism/gravity to the situation that's seemingly treated so lightly by those who haven't received the wake-up call yet.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.

    Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.

    What I had to go through:

    -6mo license suspension
    -$700 for a hardship license to be able to get to work and back.
    -6mo of an Ignition Interlock Device. HUGE pain in the ass. Had to pay monthly to have it "serviced."
    -12hrs DUI class at my expense.
    -160 hours community service at a recycling plant.
    -3hr Victim Impact Panel. Had to write the judge an essay afterwards.
    -10 day car impound at my house, $150.
    -1 year of probation with random alcohol & drug screening ($50). Basically had to call a # everyday to see if my color was chosen. If it was, I had to be there by 11am otherwise it was considered a Violation Probation.
    -Monthly probation visit @ $55/each time.
    -3mo of "substance abuse counseling." It was bullshit and nothing more than a money grab. The place closed down like 2 months after I finished my sentence. Such bullshit.
    -1 day in jail, credited time served because I spent 14hrs in jail after being arrested.
    -$1700 fine

    So, needless to say I barely drink anymore. Especially not right after a ride in the parking lot or anything. I can't even recall the last time I had a beer. Maybe one in the last 2 months?

    What completely blew my mind was the number of repeat offenders in the DUI class next to mine. They had more people there than in my first violation class. People with 2-4 DUI's. Just absolutely mind bottling.
    Amazing and thanks for sharing, as stated it takes a real man to confess such life experiences. Sorry about your loss of your father. Your writing is nothing short of spectacular on here. Although, correct me if Iím wrong but your last word in that very in depth list of life experiences should be boggling, no? Not ďbottlingĒ which in this case of thread topic, we are all trying to avoid.

    Bringing on some lightheartedness to an otherwise depressing topic.
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  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I just defer to what people prefer for themselves. I have a Korean cousin who definitely dislikes ďorientalĒ so thatís good enough for me.

    Itís not always the PC variant, though. Every tribal member Iíve met prefers ďIndianĒ to Native American.
    I donít really care one way or the other and I certainly donít wish to Insult anyone, but the term ďnativeĒ as a designation is a little weird. Itís not as if Indians grew out of the soil of North America -they originated out of Africa like any other **** sapien and eventually migrated across the Bering straight. In that sense, ďFirst NationĒ or similar is more accurate syntax.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by 101 View Post
    I donít really care one way or the other and I certainly donít wish to Insult anyone, but the term ďnativeĒ as a designation is a little weird. Itís not as if Indians grew out of the soil of North America -they originated out of Africa like any other **** sapien and eventually migrated across the Bering straight. In that sense, ďFirst NationĒ or similar is more accurate syntax.



    They were the first race to widely inhabit America. Native Americans makes sense to me.
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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Not proud to admit it, but I got a DUI 11yrs ago, shortly after my dad passed away unexpectedly. I was pretty torn up about the situation revolving my dad's passing and got hammered one night. Blacked out and apparently thought it would be a good idea to drive home. Got pulled over like 2 blocks from the bar. Came out of the blackout as I was being put in the back of a cop car. It sucked.

    Thankfully I didn't hurt anyone or myself. The following year was miserable and ended up costing me almost $8k when all was said and done. What really got me was, I was never a big drinker at all. Just went through a very rough time and got busted in the process. It was my fault, for sure, so I pleaded guilty (blew a .224, kind of hard to defend that) and the judge threw the book at me, probably to teach me a life lesson. Which it certainly did as.

    What I had to go through:

    -6mo license suspension
    -$700 for a hardship license to be able to get to work and back.
    -6mo of an Ignition Interlock Device. HUGE pain in the ass. Had to pay monthly to have it "serviced."
    -12hrs DUI class at my expense.
    -160 hours community service at a recycling plant.
    -3hr Victim Impact Panel. Had to write the judge an essay afterwards.
    -10 day car impound at my house, $150.
    -1 year of probation with random alcohol & drug screening ($50). Basically had to call a # everyday to see if my color was chosen. If it was, I had to be there by 11am otherwise it was considered a Violation Probation.
    -Monthly probation visit @ $55/each time.
    -3mo of "substance abuse counseling." It was bullshit and nothing more than a money grab. The place closed down like 2 months after I finished my sentence. Such bullshit.
    -1 day in jail, credited time served because I spent 14hrs in jail after being arrested.
    -$1700 fine

    So, needless to say I barely drink anymore. Especially not right after a ride in the parking lot or anything. I can't even recall the last time I had a beer. Maybe one in the last 2 months?

    What completely blew my mind was the number of repeat offenders in the DUI class next to mine. They had more people there than in my first violation class. People with 2-4 DUI's. Just absolutely mind bottling.
    My younger brother got one in 2007 shorty after our dad passed. He was experiencing a bout of reckless behavior. He slid his Bronco off a twisty mountain road and hiked down to a gas station and asked some guys for help. They drove him back to the scene and called the CHP. Alll he had to do was call me and I'd have been there to pick him up in five minutes and we'd recover his rig in the morning.

    I don't know what his BAC was but it was high enough that he received an enhancement. He got an attorney and it was knocked down but he still paid 10K. He paid off the classes and AA meetings with generous "donations", but I had to drive him to work for six months.
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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    They were the first race to widely inhabit America. Native Americans makes sense to me.
    I mean, sure.... I guess. It just doesnít seem very accurate if you put it under the logical microscope. Youíre interpreting ďnativeĒ as applying to race instead of species and then designating it further as which race got there first. Itís not a big deal, but itís hardly accurate or without fault of logical analysis, it would never cut in the native vs. invasive definition applied to every other species, but, itís not worth arguing about either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]Attachment 1247561



    If you change those bottles to cans you reduce your chance of being harassed by someone with a star/shield/badge by about two thirds.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau View Post
    I was subscribed to that theory some time ago too. Used to haul a fat can of Stella, Kilt Lifter, or Sapporo, along with a nice cigar, up the mountain and take some time to soak in the views and relax with those tasty vices. The beer thing kinda got boring though partly because I rarely had much desire to finish it, and it was never cold by the time I got to the top. Being in the desert southwest doesn't help with that though.

    Good times =)

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    Awe man you have the cooler right with you. Start with your 100z wide mouth camelbak bag. Put in your beer can and 2 trays of ice. Top with cold water, good for at least 3 hrs of cold. Cheers.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    This just sounds like what you hear in AA, everyone is an alcoholic that drinks, anything, anytime. Just because you have a problem does not mean we all do. It is about making you put up your defenses and blame everyone for your failures. We that drink a few beers a week or after a ride are not the problem, you are.
    Ever been to an AA meeting? If so, it was a weird one. That's not what AA teaches at all.

    Some really bizarre digs at AA on this thread.

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Wow. This thread is an eye opener. A few thoughts:

    2. Washington DC has a ZERO tolerance. If you blow anything other than a 0.00, you have won yourself a DUI. Wish this weren't true but it is.
    cite? The way you talk about a breath test leads me to believe this is fallacy.

  44. #244
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    The post-ride DUI-a5af0fc7-6164-4b46-971c-f06f970e46f0.jpg

    Should be nice and shook up and ready to open mid ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Takes a real man to admit such things. It's a sign of recognizing that responsibility and authenticity is more valuable than maintaining some front and being a coward, and not owning up to your own shameful decisions.

    Got any more detail that you're willing to share, such as the emotions you felt in response to the various bullet points? This is interesting and potentially very useful information. I googled some of them, but find it hard to relate to the human-side of the story, told by someone who went through it involuntarily. Would help bring some realism/gravity to the situation that's seemingly treated so lightly by those who haven't received the wake-up call yet.
    I have no qualms with admitting when I'm wrong, pretty much been that way my whole life, something my parents taught me at an early age. I was completely in the wrong, it's not ok to go out and get smashed then drive, hence why I didn't bother pleading not guilty, that's just denying it happened in the first place IMO.

    Emotions? Hmmm, most of it was just a hassle TBH. Sitting in jail for 14hrs was not fun and somewhat scary at first. I'm a smaller guy, 5'7" 150lbs and I seriously though I was going to end up getting my ass kicked, thankfully that never happened. for The Victim Impact Panel was hard to sit through. Hearing people talk about how their loved ones were taken by drunk drivers was absolutely gut wrenching. Having an IID in my car, having to explain that to people made me feel like a loser, as did having to show up at the probation offices monthly. The substance abuse counseling, as I said before, seemed more like a money grab than anything else. They kept trying to get me to "confess" to having a problem with alcohol, meanwhile I wasn't much of a drinker before this incident, at all. Because I wouldn't admit to having a "problem", they kept extending the time I needed to be there until I got fed up with the BS and brought it to the attention of my PO and she put an end to their shenanigans. Community service was a cakewalk, just time consuming. I literally didn't have to do anything except make sure trash wasn't laying around on the ground, for like 7hrs a day.

    Overall, it was a huge life lesson. One that I wish I hadn't gone through in the first place, but shit happens and the way you deal with it makes you a better person in the end.
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  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Amazing and thanks for sharing, as stated it takes a real man to confess such life experiences. Sorry about your loss of your father. Your writing is nothing short of spectacular on here. Although, correct me if Iím wrong but your last word in that very in depth list of life experiences should be boggling, no? Not ďbottlingĒ which in this case of thread topic, we are all trying to avoid.

    Bringing on some lightheartedness to an otherwise depressing topic.
    Thanks! I was hoping someone would get the "mind bottling" joke at the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSfebOXSBOE

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  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Ever been to an AA meeting? If so, it was a weird one. That's not what AA teaches at all.

    Some really bizarre digs at AA on this thread.
    My ex is in recovery, sober for 15 years. There is a reason why AA calls people like me "normies". They know that some of us can just not have a drink if we don't feel like it. I have never caught grief at a meeting from an alcoholic, and I have been to plenty of meetings.

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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Awe man you have the cooler right with you. Start with your 100z wide mouth camelbak bag. Put in your beer can and 2 trays of ice. Top with cold water, good for at least 3 hrs of cold. Cheers.
    Great idea, just make sure to thoroughly wash your beer can before you put it in your Camelbak (if you stashing the beer IN the bladder). We ride Porc Rim a couple times a year. Having a beer at "lunch rock" is a tradition. All of our crew had packed a beer to accompany lunch (we rode down from Hazard), and one of our crew had put the can in his bladder. To no one's surprise, he had a bit of an upset stomach that evening which everyone attributed to food poisoning-dirt, debris, possible mouse turds that were on the beer can in his bladder.

    Lesson learned. To this day, I wash every beer can top before I imbibe. You have no idea if the factory, warehouse, delivery truck has any sanitization protocol. Better safe than sorry.

    *"Lunch Rock" is where the bailout point is for Sand Flats Road.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Great idea, just make sure to thoroughly wash your beer can before you put it in your Camelbak (if you stashing the beer IN the bladder). We ride Porc Rim a couple times a year. Having a beer at "lunch rock" is a tradition. All of our crew had packed a beer to accompany lunch (we rode down from Hazard), and one of our crew had put the can in his bladder. To no one's surprise, he had a bit of an upset stomach that evening which everyone attributed to food poisoning-dirt, debris, possible mouse turds that were on the beer can in his bladder.

    Lesson learned. To this day, I wash every beer can top before I imbibe. You have no idea if the factory, warehouse, delivery truck has any sanitization protocol. Better safe than sorry.

    *"Lunch Rock" is where the bailout point is for Sand Flats Road.
    I really want to do that trick, but this was my hesitation. After hearing your story I may never try it.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    My ex is in recovery, sober for 15 years. There is a reason why AA calls people like me "normies". They know that some of us can just not have a drink if we don't feel like it. I have never caught grief at a meeting from an alcoholic, and I have been to plenty of meetings.
    Right. It's not AA's business to declare anyone an alcoholic or give them shizz about their drinking habits. If you have real trouble stopping drinking and staying stopped, and it's affecting your life, they'll be glad to help.

    So why this comment?

    If you want to be demonized, go talk to a recovering alcoholic...those guys will really demonize you.
    Maybe it's something specific to your ex, but recovered alcoholics tend not to judge or demonize others, anymore than the rest of us. Some are sicker than others though.

    That said, it's not a centrally organized operation and there are apparently some groups that are way off the reservation in terms of what they tell people and how they treat them. I have never encountered such a group in 22 years of sobriety, but have heard they exist.

    Sort of OT, but if anyone is in this thread thinking they may have a problem, AA offers a solution. And if it takes, and you do it right, it will vastly improve your life, beyond merely stopping drinking.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    I really want to do that trick, but this was my hesitation. After hearing your story I may never try it.
    There's really no purpose to it anyway. Can just as easily use a ziploc bag for those people who feel they just HAVE to have their beer freezing cold for whatever reason.

    I just stuff them in the main cambelback pocket; if they get a little warm it's no BFD.
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  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    There's really no purpose to it anyway. Can just as easily use a ziploc bag for those people who feel they just HAVE to have their beer freezing cold for whatever reason.

    I just stuff them in the main cambelback pocket; if they get a little warm it's no BFD.



    As I've mentioned I'm an after ride drinker and a light one at that, mid-ride beers have zero appeal for me. But a warm mid-ride beer? Not judging anyone else's preferences but that sounds about as non-appealing as it gets to me.
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  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I just stuff them in the main cambelback pocket; if they get a little warm it's no BFD.
    That's how I do it as well. I've only ever seen one person do it the other way.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    As I've mentioned I'm an after ride drinker and a light one at that, mid-ride beers have zero appeal for me. But a warm mid-ride beer? Not judging anyone else's preferences but that sounds about as non-appealing as it gets to me.
    Decent beers don't need to be all that cold IMO. More of an issue with crappy beer, but those taste like shit cold or warm anyway.
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  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Decent beers don't need to be all that cold IMO. More of an issue with crappy beer, but those taste like shit cold or warm anyway.


    To each their own but there have been times where in that moment an ice cold Tecate was the best beer that I've ever tasted. In other moments not so much. I'm somewhat of a mild alcoholic in that I really don't want to give up my 1 (sometimes 2) beer a day habit but not enough of one to the crave one mid-ride. Among other reasons that would mean sacrificing my after ride brew and the thought of that is just too much to bear
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  56. #256
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    Not been to an AA meeting but FIL is a recovering alcoholic (been sober for 30yrs but still considers himself recovering), SIL is kinda recovering (more on that) and wife's biological dad and much of his side of the family are functioning alcoholics. Needless to say, when the wife starts to drink more my Spidey senses start going off.

    Recently had the pleasure of reading about my SIL getting a DUI in our neighborhood in the local paper. She has been battling with it since 2007 when she was in college at ASU. She came back home in 2008/09 and was sober for just over a year, got her coin from AA and everything. Took her out to help her celebrate her sobriety but for some reason about a year later she fell off the wagon. This resulted in a number of fights/arguments with the sisters (there are 4 of them) over the years which culminated in 2016 when we were all together for our twin nephews First birthday. Apparently one night while we were all together the SIL in question disappeared with a cousin for the night. At about 4am the cousin woke up our BIL to help get the SIL in the room because she was literally so drunk she could not stand, walk and could barely talk. How they got back to the condo we were all staying at we have no clue.

    Anyways, this resulted in huge fight between everyone a few months later. My wife and the SIL (biological sisters) rarely talked up until about Sept last year when they had some big blowup on the phone. The last part of the conversation I remember hearing was something to the sort of "Well you do what you want to. I will always love you and you can always count on US for a ride if you need it." Fast forward to about 2 months ago when we find out said SIL has been fired from her job (restaurant manager for casino) because she has been nasty to her employees and also caught drinking on the job. Few weekends later the wife is reading the local news online and sees a normal cryptic DUI/Arrest LEA report from the previous night, one sticks out of officers getting called to a crash at 3am. Report goes on to say a 33yr old white female crashed into a power pole in her blue bmw and was found to be almost completely incoherent. When asked what had happened, her response to the officer was "A drunken mistake".... right then my wife knew it was her sister.

    Here we are now a few months later, still waiting on the case to be adjudicated, her car is totaled, insurance has been dropped (agent is one of the sisters), and lawyer is hired for case and she is already out $4500! Bad thing is, talking with her at Easter she doesn't seem to see the issue with everything. She is ready to get back to her life, still apparently is drinking with a new/old boyfriend and is "looking" for work. Just sucks to see family members go through stuff like this and not realize that their own ego is not worth the time in cases like this. Literally she crashed maybe a mile from our house, while she may have gotten an ear full from us at one point or another we would have been more than happy to have picked her up and dropped her off at her place, or even had her stay with us.

    To go off what @TwiceHorn said... AA does offer a solution. Not necessarily the right one for everyone but it is one that works. My FIL is a perfect example of it, has participated as a sponsor for years and works an INCREDIBLY high stress job where he could easily slip back into it.

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    2. Washington DC has a ZERO tolerance. If you blow anything other than a 0.00, you have won yourself a DUI. Wish this weren't true but it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    cite? The way you talk about a breath test leads me to believe this is fallacy.
    My thoughts too.
    That would be bigger news across the nation than just about any story I've seen this year.
    Not sure how they'd keep that below radar.
    bachman must spread some Reputation around before giving it to himself again.


  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Thanks! I was hoping someone would get the "mind bottling" joke at the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSfebOXSBOE

    I got it !

    Used that before myself and was corrected by those who apparently never seen the reference.
    bachman must spread some Reputation around before giving it to himself again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bachman1961 View Post
    My thoughts too.
    That would be bigger news across the nation than just about any story I've seen this year.
    Not sure how they'd keep that below radar.
    I found this with a quick Google search:


    https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dc-dui-laws.html

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  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Man, you guys are making me feel like a full blown alcoholic. Sometimes I go for a good, hard ride just because it makes my nightly beer taste so much better. It's not nearly as enjoyable otherwise.


    I do wait until I'm home and showered though. Usually.

    Now I'm thirsty, going for a ride
    Although I don't drink alcohol myself a trip to the pub is a frequent and popular feature of our weekly MTB rides for a beer or two although we cycle out and back so there are no cars. The drink drive limit here is low at 0.05% so people don't drink if they're driving.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Ever been to an AA meeting? If so, it was a weird one. That's not what AA teaches at all.

    Some really bizarre digs at AA on this thread.
    Part of my DUI conviction was attending classes on alcohol/drug abuse. They were led by and attended by people in AA. They told one guy that his roommate was an a-hole for having beers in the fridge and he should kick him out. They told me to stop hanging out with my friends that drink because if they were really my friends they wouldn't drink around me. Ive been hanging out with some of these guys since we were 3yrs old.We have been through everything together, school, marriages, children, deaths. I was told by one idiot in there that they were never my friends, we were just bonded by alcohol and that they are all alcoholics too.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Thanks! I was hoping someone would get the "mind bottling" joke at the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSfebOXSBOE

    Lol
    I thought you made a typo. Iíve never seen that movie so it went right over my head. Pretty funny though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Part of my DUI conviction was attending classes on alcohol/drug abuse. They were led by and attended by people in AA. They told one guy that his roommate was an a-hole for having beers in the fridge and he should kick him out. They told me to stop hanging out with my friends that drink because if they were really my friends they wouldn't drink around me. Ive been hanging out with some of these guys since we were 3yrs old.We have been through everything together, school, marriages, children, deaths. I was told by one idiot in there that they were never my friends, we were just bonded by alcohol and that they are all alcoholics too.
    Basically sums up the current informal judgement system in place for addicts.

    Generally, the wisdom is "once a convict, always a convict." The mental barriers that prevent people from making questionable decisions are broken for good, unless they go through "trauma" to build up another mental barrier (e.g. don't wanna go through the DUI ordeal again).

    Without mental barriers, like high moral integrity, what's left to keep people from making such decisions again are what those around them do. They're safer from relapse if conformed to people who have much higher standards, such as totally abstaining. Only takes 1 instance to trigger lapse in judgement, like what gregnash shared in his story about his SIL.

    I basically see your description of that AA technique as them attempting to set up trauma through a "life-changing" event, to rebuild another mental barrier, which is far more reliable than relying on conforming to society. Going without re-creating that mental barrier wouldn't work to well on someone who's been desensitized, because of how individualism is praised, how privacy is fought for as a right and expected to be respected, and how punishment for crimes are only there for those caught in-the-act, or convicted after the fact. It's a difficult case to win vs someone who has "malicious intent" alone. I recall there was some history changing court decision that ruled in favor of cars back in the early 1900s, despite all the pedestrian deaths caused by collision with a vehicle, which basically made vehicle-operators have no fault in collisions (just accidents)...

    *shrug* this is why I prefer a meritocracy. If only society offered incentives to those who uphold higher personal performance standards, and having "checks-and-balances" to crack down on corruption/cheating in the system. F this punishment system... the whole system of freedom based on supply and demand has turned out to be a weird experiment, where people are expected to do good, and there's a huge space of "tolerance" between good and illegal, dictated by how comfortable you are with angering others. The only incentive for one to do good, is to not deal with people getting personally angry at them, but people are conditioned to treat indecent things as normal, so they don't get angered so easily. It's not illegal to make others uncomfortable perhaps by invading their personal space and privacy (in public); what's there to deal with some troll who enjoys the anger, legally? This kind of injustice can just lead to creating another jerk who's drifting the just short of illegal, where people go "no more Mr/Mrs Nice Guy/Girl" and go vigilante with things that are just as dastardly. Deep down the converts are still nice, and may feel guilt and accept punishment, while the real jerks feel no shame and avoid punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Maybe it's something specific to your ex, but recovered alcoholics tend not to judge or demonize others, anymore than the rest of us. Some are sicker than others though.

    That said, it's not a centrally organized operation and there are apparently some groups that are way off the reservation in terms of what they tell people and how they treat them. I have never encountered such a group in 22 years of sobriety, but have heard they exist.

    Sort of OT, but if anyone is in this thread thinking they may have a problem, AA offers a solution. And if it takes, and you do it right, it will vastly improve your life, beyond merely stopping drinking.
    Just from my recollections, recovering alcoholics won't put up with your justifications. If you don't have a drinking problem, then they can see that and leave you alone. But if you have a problem and try to deny it, they will call you out on it. Claiming how alcohol has any sort of positive in your life is definitely the language of someone who needs to justify what they are doing. My memory is rough though since I haven't been in a while.

    I personally never had negative experiences, but I think some of that was luck of the draw and I'm easy to spot as not being a drinker in a room full of AA people. I've also never been caught in a meeting full of evangelicals either, and I know those exist.

    Totally by coincidence, the girl I am dating attends meetings on occasion. I don't personally think she is an addict, just a person who has a history of making poor decisions, sometimes they involved alcohol. But I won't tell her not to go. But she does seem to have a knack for finding BAD groups.

    I'm definitely willing to be a resource for anyone who thinks they know someone who has a problem. I got shit out and flushed down the toilet due to alcoholism by another, by came out of it okay. Lots of painful memories (watching my motorcycle get repo'ed after returning from a deployment sucked), but proud that my ex is still sober to this day, and I regret nothing sticking with her through it all.

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I found this with a quick Google search:


    https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dc-dui-laws.html

    .08 like most places.
    Thank you for the clarity.
    Citing a link or source is something I used to do a lot on the motorcycle or firearms topics but I don't get into much tech savvy subjects these days.

    For those that care to use that option, it offers some background on the facts or opinion and at least gives your perspective some backbone. In so many cases, I'd have the links readily there because I'd just been doing the reading or research.
    bachman must spread some Reputation around before giving it to himself again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    Just from my recollections, recovering alcoholics won't put up with your justifications. If you don't have a drinking problem, then they can see that and leave you alone. But if you have a problem and try to deny it, they will call you out on it. Claiming how alcohol has any sort of positive in your life is definitely the language of someone who needs to justify what they are doing. My memory is rough though since I haven't been in a while.

    I personally never had negative experiences, but I think some of that was luck of the draw and I'm easy to spot as not being a drinker in a room full of AA people. I've also never been caught in a meeting full of evangelicals either, and I know those exist.

    Totally by coincidence, the girl I am dating attends meetings on occasion. I don't personally think she is an addict, just a person who has a history of making poor decisions, sometimes they involved alcohol. But I won't tell her not to go. But she does seem to have a knack for finding BAD groups.

    I'm definitely willing to be a resource for anyone who thinks they know someone who has a problem. I got shit out and flushed down the toilet due to alcoholism by another, by came out of it okay. Lots of painful memories (watching my motorcycle get repo'ed after returning from a deployment sucked), but proud that my ex is still sober to this day, and I regret nothing sticking with her through it all.
    Yeah, if you aren't being honest with yourself, in whatever way, an AA person will be more than happy to help you realize the error of your ways, particularly if you have expressed an interest in stopping drinking.

    For those reading, AA does require a belief in a higher power of your own conception. For a lot of folks, that winds up being a Christian God, for a lot of others, something else entirely. A few groups have taken that to an extreme to turn themselves essentially into a religious group. The ones I have experienced don't force anything, though. If your beliefs don't align, they aren't going to try to convert you, you'll find another group. If you keep going to that kind of group, I imagine they interpret that as wanting their version, and if you don't it's your fault for sticking around.

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    Claiming how alcohol has any sort of positive in your life is definitely the language of someone who needs to justify what they are doing.

    Realize that many people can enjoy a beer with no negative effects. Enjoying life is positive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Realize that many people can enjoy a beer with no negative effects. Enjoying life is positive.
    Is there a term for this type of imagined reasoning?

    This is often depicted as the attitude that an elementary school aged "bully" has, when they are trying to shamelessly defend themselves when facing the school principal after having an incident with others. They feel like they should have no responsibility, and it's others that are the problem.

    Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit... hard to imagine all the "overthinking" leading to conclusions used for justifying questionable actions.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Is there a term for this type of imagined reasoning?

    This is often depicted as the attitude that an elementary school aged "bully" has, when they are trying to shamelessly defend themselves when facing the school principal after having an incident with others. They feel like they should have no responsibility, and it's others that are the problem.

    Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit...




    Wow.
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  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Wow.
    Lol no kidding! who is the "bully"?
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  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Is there a term for this type of imagined reasoning?

    This is often depicted as the attitude that an elementary school aged "bully" has, when they are trying to shamelessly defend themselves when facing the school principal after having an incident with others. They feel like they should have no responsibility, and it's others that are the problem.

    Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit--like the rogue road biker who so strongly believes that they have a right to be in the road, and runs on such logic to hate drivers and take up more space to establish their dominance, not realizing that this creates grudges that potentially endangers other roadies who are more responsibly self-conscious.


    Holy moly! No offense ninjichor but you have issues. I said nothing bad or negative about you or anyone else and you accuse me of being a school yard bully with no responsibilities? wtf?


    And the road bike thing? Completely off topic but you're damn right I've a right to be in the road and it has nothing to do with "establishing dominance", it's about safety. Luckily the drivers I encounter realize that and are generally understanding and friendly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Lol no kidding! who is the "bully"?
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Holy moly! No offense ninjichor but you have issues. I said nothing bad or negative about you or anyone else and you accuse me of being a school yard bully with no responsibilities? wtf?


    And the road bike thing? Completely off topic but you're damn right I've a right to be in the road and it has nothing to do with "establishing dominance", it's about safety. Luckily the drivers I encounter realize that and are generally understanding and friendly.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...s-toxic-parent

    In the search for a proper term, preferably coined in a scientific study, this is where my search led me, regarding the quality of the symptom matching.

    This topic I brought up is about figuring out the state-of-mind behind the belief regarding beer drinking being not a negative thing, but a positive thing. I wonder why people overlook this so easily. If drinkers drove home without a problem, I wouldn't doubt that it would be forgiven, but I worry about people's integrity regarding their response if damage was found on the car they drove.

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post

    Nothing personal JB, just curious about better understanding this perspective. It blows my mind that people use logic in this manner and think it's legit... hard to imagine all the "overthinking" leading to conclusions used for justifying questionable actions.

    If you're not hurting yourself of affecting anyone else how is enjoying life not "legit?"
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  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    If you're not hurting yourself of affecting anyone else how is enjoying life not "legit?"
    I'm questioning the logic being legit. It depends on being ignorant of the negatives.

    Similar logic is employed in these examples:

    Mtn biker playing music over speakers on popular trail. Someone comments on it, and person defensively says, "I've ridden this way for a while, passing many people, yet you're the only one who complained. You're a dick. Something's wrong with you."

    Loud person uses foul language in a family restaurant that has kid friendly features. Someone confronts them on it, and person defensively says, "What I've said is relatively mild compared to where I came from. They'll be shocked if they're brought into the real world, where there's many worse than me. It's a good thing that they're getting broken in by someone who's not so bad."

    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Look in the mirror.
    Is this lack of self-defense an admittance of the fact? I have looked in the mirror--takes a thief to catch a thief. I have self-respect since I make an effort to improve myself. What about you?

    There's many verses in the bible that condemn alcohol. There's even a teaching that covers being desensitized, which was worded as "seared conscious". The "healthy" use ofalcohol in the bible involved treating the sick/wounded, since it was often more sterile than fresh water during the time.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Similar logic is employed in these examples:

    I guess you overlooked this part of my post-


    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    If you're not hurting yourself or affecting anyone else how is enjoying life not "legit?"
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  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    I'm questioning the logic being legit. It depends on being ignorant of the negatives.

    Similar logic is employed in these examples:

    Mtn biker playing music over speakers on popular trail. Someone comments on it, and person defensively says, "I've ridden this way for a while, passing many people, yet you're the only one who complained. You're a dick. Something's wrong with you."

    Loud person uses foul language in a family restaurant that has kid friendly features. Someone confronts them on it, and person defensively says, "What I've said is relatively mild compared to where I came from. They'll be shocked if they're brought into the real world, where there's many worse than me. It's a good thing that they're getting broken in by someone who's not so bad."



    Is this lack of self-defense an admittance of the fact? I have looked in the mirror--takes a thief to catch a thief. I have self-respect since I make an effort to improve myself. What about you?

    There's many verses in the bible that condemn alcohol. There's even a teaching that covers being desensitized, which was worded as "seared conscious". The "healthy" use ofalcohol in the bible involved treating the sick/wounded, since it was often more sterile than fresh water during the time.




    Dude, you're obviously not going to be swayed by logic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I guess you overlooked this part of my post-
    Are you on-topic? It's about DUI, or at least combo'ing beer drinking with mountain biking.

    If you're talking about having a beer alone in a safe location far away from anyone else, and have no one who cares for you or depends on you, okay. I was doubting such a scenario, but if you were to be quite specific with context, I could accept this. If you're having a beer, and being social with others, but not driving, I do not have much doubt that your influence is negative. Can just bring up a list of common symptoms of alcohol to show what others have to deal with...

    Your post saying that beer is being not negative for many, but is positive, has no affect on others? Based on stories here, I wouldn't doubt that some AA person would try to make you out to be an a-hole for such. This is a negative effect on others, is it not?

    The legal drinking age is 21 in the US. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger. Guns at least have some unique usefulness. Kids join the military at 18 and use guns. Some wise folk understood this and wanted to make it clear that we needed to accept the good with the bad, perhaps using this as reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. What about alcohol?

    Got plenty negative about alcohol, such as it being terrible for underaged drinkers: https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicati...83/125-132.htm

    Can you be more detailed on how alcohol is positive? Like how exactly does it make you enjoy life? Does the alcohol result in making you blissfully ignorant to negatives caused not only by it, but other poor decisions of yours?

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    The public stoning will be at 5 p.m. Brought to you by Taliban local 213.
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  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post

    Can you be more detailed on how alcohol is positive? Like how exactly does it make you enjoy life? Does the alcohol result in making you blissfully ignorant to negatives caused not only by it, but other poor decisions of yours?



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  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Are you on-topic? It's about DUI.


    ...says the guy who said that road bikers who think they have a right to be on the road are asserting their dominance and hate drivers


    ok mods, I promise I'm done with this, will try to stay more on topic and be more fun loving from here on in.
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  82. #282
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    J.B., I care about you and if you just need someone to talk to, I'm here for you, man.

    What say we grab a couple of beers and you can tell me all about it? But not at the trailhead. You're paying, btw.
    Last edited by chazpat; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:52 PM.
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  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    The legal drinking age is 21 in the US. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger.
    I donít think thatís legal, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    The legal drinking age is 21 in the US. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger.
    Sir, this isn't your Grindr app.

    It's MTBR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I found this with a quick Google search:


    https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resources/dc-dui-laws.html

    .08 like most places.
    Well damn, I stand corrected. Sorry about that. Iím not from DC. Every time I visit this topic comes up and Iíve been told the some thing.

  86. #286
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    Since this IS OT, I will say there can be bad parenting and abuse without any Alcohol, what so ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Part of my DUI conviction was attending classes on alcohol/drug abuse. They were led by and attended by people in AA. They told one guy that his roommate was an a-hole for having beers in the fridge and he should kick him out. They told me to stop hanging out with my friends that drink because if they were really my friends they wouldn't drink around me. Ive been hanging out with some of these guys since we were 3yrs old.We have been through everything together, school, marriages, children, deaths. I was told by one idiot in there that they were never my friends, we were just bonded by alcohol and that they are all alcoholics too.
    That's not AA. Drug and alcohol counselors have their place, but they don't teach AA and that's not an AA meeting.

  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    the legal drinking age is 21 in the us. Why's that? Compared to something else that's controversial, you can buy guys at 18, but can operate them much younger.

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    i donít think thatís legal, either.

    lol
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    This is actually true in most states. Just like bicycles are considered a standard mode of transportation, you are "supposed" to abide by the laws of the road when riding on one. So, signaling before turns, stopping at stop signs/lights, yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks, etc. all apply. Most officers will not harass you unless you do something stupid like blow through an intersection/stop light/etc. But that is completely up to them.

    The bad thing about all of this is we have more than a few YouTube MTBrs that are getting famous and have "trailside beers" in their videos. This being shown on a regular basis to younger viewers is reinforcing the understanding that not only is this acceptable but "normal" by all intents and purposes. I have seen/witnessed this "younger generation" then get supremely pissed when a cop rolls by and sees them having trail beers only to stop and question them. This becomes "the man" harassing them and shines an unflattering light on not only LEA but also on the mtb community. Hell, witnessed this last month after some riders got done, threw open the bed of their big ole truck to then unfold the lawn chairs and put a cooler between the two of them and commence having said trail beers. This was at a public park, where the TH was, and their were HS softball games going on some 100yds away. All it would have taken is a parent not liking the situation and them to get on the horn with LEA, or another trail user not liking it and calling them in.

    I do like the idea of the "vanlife" situation throwing a whole wrench into everything as that is a whole different dynamic. Most of those individuals though are more "setup" for that type of situation and usually openly leave their doors open to see their living quarters. However, that could instigate a different type of stop as they could be potentially staying/parked in a location that is not an open camping location.

    Main take away from this is JUST DON'T DO IT! No trail beer will taste that good, and really it doesn't normally take much to get everyone to a restaurant to commence the "consumption of mass quantities" recount the ride detail and be all good.

    Oh and to @bingemtbr's #1 point... hell look at Pliny the Elder.. comes in a 22oz bottle normally and has an 8% ABV!!! But those are dangerous because they are sooooooooo good and go down sooooooo easily! Or if you are not an IPA drinker, most STOUTS have at least 7-9% ABV.
    I have no problem with people drinking in the parking lot as long as it doesn't get out of hand and people aren't driving. I play softball in a beer league, but it's limited to three Coors Lites over two hours.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

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    This site, for whatever reason, seems to attract a lot of wackos who appear, by the length of their posts, to be getting paid by the word.

    Ninjichor is just the latest weirdo troll. Put him on ignore; life will be better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I have no problem with people drinking in the parking lot as long as it doesn't get out of hand and people aren't driving. I play softball in a beer league, but it's limited to three Coors Lites over two hours.
    Interesting... We have a beer league here in town, mind you I drive 45 minutes away to play. League we have here is U-trip vs. me playing in another town for ASA. Reason I don't play here is because while it is a "beer league" with same rules, most of the guys that show up end up having a 12'r in the parking lot prior to the game, normally out of sight of most of the blues. Add to that the fact that the blues are paid maybe $15/game a night and most don't want to deal with the hassle, yeah is someone is blatantly drunk they will toss them but otherwise its game on. So now we have a U-trip league, with most of the guys being over 200lbs with big beer bellies, and more than a few beers in them, so yeah that makes for a lot of fun when you have a ball screaming at you regardless of position played (its amazing how much momentum a ball can get when someone's entire body mass is put behind the ball).

    So these guys will play a game, maybe two then head back to the parking lot to have another round. Still think thats safe? Mind, your interpretation of "getting out of hand" may be different than most. This is where, as some have explained, people get into the problem/habit of "oh I'll just have one more. We are going to be BSing for a while longer" only to leave completely buzzed.

    This happened enough in the last couple years in my league that I play in that city rec. dept. ended up instituting a "no alcohol in the parking lot" rule, so much so that RPD and WCSO actually started doing sweeps of the parking lots at random. The fields are near the local university too and covered under the universities jurisdiction as well so they eventually will get called to do a sweep. The league/fields do still serve beers on AT THE FIELD but you are limited to one beer period. There were enough issues (fights, dv calls, dd, etc.) that they actually put it out at the coaches meeting this year that the concession stand may stop serving alcohol all together next season.

    While doing so will not stop this from happening it will continue to limit it. I am all for having a beer during/after a ride, game, whatever just be conscious of your decision to do so if you are not at a local pub, restaurant, or at home. Shit yesterday I got done with a 12mile ride and it was nice and warm out. After my buddy left my place I decided to ride down to the local pub and have a pint, no food just sit on the patio, relax for a bit, enjoy the sun and have a pint. Another buddy that I passed while on the trail was there so we chatted for a bit, I got my farmhouse red ale (pubs own recipe) which has a 7.5% ABV. I was there for little over an hour sipping the beer and when I paid and went to leave on my bike I felt the buzz. Luckily I live all of 4 blocks from the pub so I was able to walk my bike home with some music playing on my phone. Sure I got some weird looks from people still wearing my mtb gear and bumping some tunes on my phone but really I was buzzed enough that I knew as soon as I started to pedal.

    No I wasn't staggering or anything enough though that motor function was slightly impaired. Between the ride, lack of food afterward and the tasty red I am sure that if an officer took my rating I would have blown close to a .08.

    And that was from 1 beer, just 1! This is why I say don't do it.
    And @blatant, I ain't paid by the word, just verbose. Or so I am told!

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Interesting... We have a beer league here in town, mind you I drive 45 minutes away to play. League we have here is U-trip vs. me playing in another town for ASA. Reason I don't play here is because while it is a "beer league" with same rules, most of the guys that show up end up having a 12'r in the parking lot prior to the game, normally out of sight of most of the blues. Add to that the fact that the blues are paid maybe $15/game a night and most don't want to deal with the hassle, yeah is someone is blatantly drunk they will toss them but otherwise its game on. So now we have a U-trip league, with most of the guys being over 200lbs with big beer bellies, and more than a few beers in them, so yeah that makes for a lot of fun when you have a ball screaming at you regardless of position played (its amazing how much momentum a ball can get when someone's entire body mass is put behind the ball).

    So these guys will play a game, maybe two then head back to the parking lot to have another round. Still think thats safe? Mind, your interpretation of "getting out of hand" may be different than most. This is where, as some have explained, people get into the problem/habit of "oh I'll just have one more. We are going to be BSing for a while longer" only to leave completely buzzed.

    This happened enough in the last couple years in my league that I play in that city rec. dept. ended up instituting a "no alcohol in the parking lot" rule, so much so that RPD and WCSO actually started doing sweeps of the parking lots at random. The fields are near the local university too and covered under the universities jurisdiction as well so they eventually will get called to do a sweep. The league/fields do still serve beers on AT THE FIELD but you are limited to one beer period. There were enough issues (fights, dv calls, dd, etc.) that they actually put it out at the coaches meeting this year that the concession stand may stop serving alcohol all together next season.

    While doing so will not stop this from happening it will continue to limit it. I am all for having a beer during/after a ride, game, whatever just be conscious of your decision to do so if you are not at a local pub, restaurant, or at home. Shit yesterday I got done with a 12mile ride and it was nice and warm out. After my buddy left my place I decided to ride down to the local pub and have a pint, no food just sit on the patio, relax for a bit, enjoy the sun and have a pint. Another buddy that I passed while on the trail was there so we chatted for a bit, I got my farmhouse red ale (pubs own recipe) which has a 7.5% ABV. I was there for little over an hour sipping the beer and when I paid and went to leave on my bike I felt the buzz. Luckily I live all of 4 blocks from the pub so I was able to walk my bike home with some music playing on my phone. Sure I got some weird looks from people still wearing my mtb gear and bumping some tunes on my phone but really I was buzzed enough that I knew as soon as I started to pedal.

    No I wasn't staggering or anything enough though that motor function was slightly impaired. Between the ride, lack of food afterward and the tasty red I am sure that if an officer took my rating I would have blown close to a .08.

    And that was from 1 beer, just 1! This is why I say don't do it.
    And @blatant, I ain't paid by the word, just verbose. Or so I am told!
    Our league is less formal but very competitive. There are no umpires, and since the ball field is less than a mile away, I ride my bike over. Sometimes, the games are in the next town over five miles away and wont drink.

    Yesterday, a friend and I went to a punk rock show with eight bands. Yeah, we were drinking in the parking lot and we put away three 15 packs of Natty Lite. The cops rolled by and said we were cool as long as we weren't blatant and weren't driving. His wife was driving so game on.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  93. #293
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    Nichor, please stop posting in this thread. I am saying that as a Moderator.
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  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimtacos View Post
    Based upon this post, you could really use a drink.
    At least one.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    The public stoning will be at 5 p.m. Brought to you by Taliban local 213.
    Most definitely LOL.


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  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimtacos View Post
    Based upon this post, you could really use a drink.
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    At least one.
    ninjichorís intoxicant of choice seems to be his own opinions. I think heís had enough.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...s-toxic-parent

    In the search for a proper term, preferably coined in a scientific study, this is where my search led me, regarding the quality of the symptom matching.

    This topic I brought up is about figuring out the state-of-mind behind the belief regarding beer drinking being not a negative thing, but a positive thing. I wonder why people overlook this so easily. If drinkers drove home without a problem, I wouldn't doubt that it would be forgiven, but I worry about people's integrity regarding their response if damage was found on the car they drove.
    One can derive pleasure from the taste of food or drink. Pleasure generally is a positive thing. I can have a beer or glass of wine and enjoy the taste, irrespective of that fact it contains alcohol. Certainly one must be mindful of the amount consumed.

    The whole point of freedom is to allow a spectrum between what is considered good (optimal) and illegal and allow people to operate in their comfort zone within that range. While zero alcohol may be optimal, some alcohol can be consumed without harm. The zero alcohol mandate has been tried. It seemed to not work so well.

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    Out of curiosity, I purchased a Breathalizer.
    I'm 180# and two 5oz glasses of red wine had me blowing .05 BAC.
    Since i'm a CDL holder my legal limit is .04 even when i'm operating a passenger vehicle.

    I'll keep testing but it appears that I can enjoy a single drink with a dinner out and be safe. Which is plenty for me and 1-2 is my preferred amount anyways.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Yesterday, a friend and I went to a punk rock show with eight bands. Yeah, we were drinking in the parking lot and we put away three 15 packs of Natty Lite. .
    Am I reading this right? You guys drank 45 beers between two of you in one evening? How did you not die?

  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Am I reading this right? You guys drank 45 beers between two of you in one evening? How did you not die?
    Cuz 4.2% is barely beer.
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