my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very welcome!- Mtbr.com

View Poll Results: How do you like the concept and design?

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  • I love it! Where can I get one?

    7 18.92%
  • Its not bad, but I'll stick with my current biketool

    14 37.84%
  • Not my cup of tea, I'll pass

    16 43.24%
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  1. #1
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    my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very welcome!

    Hi MTBR, I hope everyone is having a good thursday! I wanted to share my newly designed bike tool and patch kit, it is not quite like anything you have seen before, I can guarantee that! A disclaimer, I did launch the product on a crowdfunding forum. If you want the link so you can see my funny face in the video, let me know via PM. I have also posted on a couple of other forums, I obviously do want to get the word out but don't want to spam you guys, and am looking for honest feedback!

    Now onto the fun stuff! The concept of the bike tool is that is contains everything you need for your commute or ride, 22 bike tools in all plut glueless tube patches. And, the best part, it is completely integrated into your phone case, so you just grab your phone and away you go. The included tools are:

    • Two tire irons
    • Pedal/Axle wrench
    • Flathead screwdriver
    • Phillips screwdriver
    • 6 Allen wrenches (1/16, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm)
    • 4 Box wrenches (5.5mm, 7mm, 8mm, 10mm)
    • two spoke wrenches (.127 and .130)
    • Three glueless tire patches
    • Roughener for tire patch application
    • Bottle opener (for the end of the ride!)


    Here are some photos of the product, it weights 80g total, but packs a lot of tools into a super slim space that is really convenient to carry. Ultimately I would like to add a handlebar mount accessory if my crowdfunding campaign is successful so you got your nav and tools all in one! Anxious to hear the community's feedback, thoughts and questions!





  2. #2
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    Interesting creative design...Thanks for the share and good luck!

  3. #3
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    The iPhone is but one type of cell phone......

  4. #4
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    If the allen head wrenches are just the flat stock of the right size (mm), I'm not too enthused about that. They might work in an emergency, but still looks iffy for any tight bolts. The case on the back of a specific I Phone is cool, but could be problematic with how quickly that technology changes form factors.

    I really like the idea of it though. Maybe make one for general tool use (blade/ screwdriver scissor/ tweezers), not bike specific for a wider market.
    How can anyone who's been riding as long as I have, be so slow???

  5. #5
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    Thanks HitmenOnlyIn!

  6. #6
    Ad1
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    Thanks for the feedback everyone. Rock, you are right about new phones. My thought process here is when a new phone comes out I will be able to re-jigger the tools so all you need is just a new Polycarbonate case (for only a few $$) and the current tools will fit right in. No need to buy the whole thing again - I agree that would be a bit of a waste if you had to.

    The Allen wrenches work at the Apex of the screw and actually are pretty reliable (the edges are machined to fit snugly) - you can apply about 45-55 in-lbs of torque, plenty to tighten most screws on your bike. The limiting factor is typically your strength and the length of the tool versus the tool strength or stripping the screw! On the smaller screws you can't apply that much torque, but surprisingly you can apply nearly as much as a traditional wrench.

    You bring up a good point though, I should make a video showing how the Allen wrench works!

  7. #7
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    Hi mate, really respect somebody that backs themselves to design something different, looks like a quality piece of kit, not so sure about it being incorperated on a mobile, but all the same nicely done and great effort.
    For ease of use im not sure id be replacing my crank brothers multi tool, but yours has a tire lever and bottle opener which mine doesnt have, nice effort bro, good luck.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  8. #8
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    Whoa. Subbing!

    Posted via mobile

  9. #9
    > /dev/null 2&>1
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    Love the innovation, don't quit. But I think there's some issues here.

    1) Agree with rock on the allen wrench issue, doesn't look like they'll hold up to torque. Nor do they look long enough for the torques necessary for major parts. Cable clamps need 5-7nm. Brake calipers need 6-7nm. Front derailleur clamp needs 5-7 nm. The Swiss army knife style multi tools have a good heft and leverage to apply this amount of torque because you can palm the thing.

    2) no torx bits

    3) no chain breaker

    4) box wrenches are not really necessary on modern bikes

    5) Pedal wrench is a good feature, and many might like a light hub / cone wrench, but folks will need different widths in the range of 16-20mm or so for this. It might limit your sales if the width you offer does not match the cone wrench that the user needs.

    Hope that helps.

  10. #10
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    I hope you have a patent on the design.

  11. #11
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    Might be a hard patent to get. I'm fact this exists in other realms so just making it "bike specific" by design doesn't necessarily make it novel (I may be wrong)

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    I hope you have a patent on the design.
    If not I hope you hurry after posting it on here. Good job on it and good luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  13. #13
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    Patents only make it easier for people to steel your ideas. Produce and sell as many as you can, as fast as you can, before someone comes along and copies it.
    I've never been a fan of flat tools. A video demonstration might sway my attitude, but I doubt it. If I need something in an emergency, or even as a convenience, I want to be confident the tool's gonna function. That's not to say there isn't a market or that it's a bad idea. I, personally, wouldn't give it a second look.

  14. #14
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    Hi that is real nice but all my maintenance I have ever had to do in real life would snap or bend all that kit shown. not saying you can't still sell thousands of those as is

    market for that design, would likely be the beach cruiser crowd. sell a million of them at the beach.

    for MTB...have a version 2.0, fatter waterproof phone case and real allen/torx and chain breaker

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddprocter View Post
    Love the innovation, don't quit. But I think there's some issues here.

    1) Agree with rock on the allen wrench issue, doesn't look like they'll hold up to torque. Nor do they look long enough for the torques necessary for major parts. Cable clamps need 5-7nm. Brake calipers need 6-7nm. Front derailleur clamp needs 5-7 nm. The Swiss army knife style multi tools have a good heft and leverage to apply this amount of torque because you can palm the thing.

    2) no torx bits

    3) no chain breaker

    4) box wrenches are not really necessary on modern bikes

    5) Pedal wrench is a good feature, and many might like a light hub / cone wrench, but folks will need different widths in the range of 16-20mm or so for this. It might limit your sales if the width you offer does not match the cone wrench that the user needs.

    Hope that helps.
    Going off of ddprocter's post, maybe you can design an "a la carte" type menu of tools for customers to choose from with a "compatibility calculator" feature on the website that customers can use to use to pick and choose which tools they want and the calculator will let them know what fits in the case. This would allow you to produce a wider range of tools, even non-bike specific stuff, while also ensuring that customers are only getting the tools they need. This would also allow you to produce a few different size cases for those who need to hold more tools, or minimal tools.

  16. #16
    Ad1
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    Great feedback everyone, thanks!

    The flat tools are not as good as a full-on screwdriver or long Park T-handle allen wrench, but with 1.5mm of hardened steel you won't have to worry about them breaking

    johnb, yes I filed with the Patent office in 2013!
    sasquatch, great concept, this is actually where we are already headed - i have one other tool tray that contains more travel/urban tools (USB drive, scissors, pen/stylus, etc), so we are already on that path! You can see the info on that one here

    Keep it coming everyone this is great to hear everyone's thoughts.

  17. #17
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    Good job!

    The tire irons should be coated with rubber or plastic so they don't damage the wheel rim.

    I need a chain tool more often than I need a pedal wrench or box wrench.

    Maybe you could add a space for drivers license and credit card so people don't need to carry a wallet.

    Good luck with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad1 View Post
    • Two tire irons
    • Pedal/Axle wrench
    • Flathead screwdriver
    • Phillips screwdriver
    • 6 Allen wrenches (1/16, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm)
    • 4 Box wrenches (5.5mm, 7mm, 8mm, 10mm)
    • two spoke wrenches (.127 and .130)
    • Three glueless tire patches
    • Roughener for tire patch application
    • Bottle opener (for the end of the ride!)

  18. #18
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    Hey Furball, thanks for the tips. When initially designing the tire irons, I was worried about the marring, but as it turns out the polished stainless does a really good job of not damaging your rim at all. I have not tried it on any carbon rims, so can't comment ont hat, but all of the mountain bike rims myself and my friends have tested the irons on they work like a charm!

    I have spent some time thinking about how to fit in a chain break, that one is still a work-in-progress. I also do have a design for a addition on the back that can hold credit cards and driver's license, if I meet my funding goal then I will consider adding those on!

    Thanks!

  19. #19
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    Very Cool...I will buy one.

  20. #20
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    Also have you tried these allen wrenches on partially stripped hex nuts? Since they rely on a very small contact area between wrench and nut, with stress concentrations at the corners of the nut, they may not work very well and at the same time exacerbate the stripped area.

  21. #21
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    my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very welcome!

    I'd also buy a sort of every day, non bike specific ones with like tweezers basic screw drivers, a knife, almost like a Swiss army knife


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  22. #22
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    Is this your design also? Don't think I'd try to sneak that through TSA! Wonder if yours would make it through the xray machine? I'd say good start & don't forget to keep refining.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very welcome!-image.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ad1 View Post
    Great feedback everyone, thanks!

    The flat tools are not as good as a full-on screwdriver or long Park T-handle allen wrench, but with 1.5mm of hardened steel you won't have to worry about them breaking

    johnb, yes I filed with the Patent office in 2013!
    sasquatch, great concept, this is actually where we are already headed - i have one other tool tray that contains more travel/urban tools (USB drive, scissors, pen/stylus, etc), so we are already on that path! You can see the info on that one here

    Keep it coming everyone this is great to hear everyone's thoughts.
    I'm a law student, please entertain the following: are you using an attorney to file patent? i'm curious how he will circumvent the novelty argument (and potential obviousness argument) that can be maid to deny the patent. obviously you don't need ti disclose any trade secrets. is it just for a design patent or are you going for utility? if you consider this a threadjack, please feel free to disregard good luck!

  24. #24
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    It is a good idea, but everything is too compact for my liking.
    Dropping into a trail

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  25. #25
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    ddproctor - the stripped nut is tricky - the wrenches don't have as much area to grab as traditional wrenches, so I would have to say it would work on some and probably not on others. Also really will depend on the socket size, with the larger sizes there will be no problem but on the smaller sized 3mm and below, it gets a bit more tricky!

    twonin94, I do have a law firm that helps me with the filing! I would rather not disclose too much on the forum though, sorry

    Hazerd - That is also my design! I have gone through now 6 revision of that design, it is much more refined now. The knife is removable in about 4 seconds, everything else in there is TSA compliant, so you just have to leave the knife at home or in your checked bag.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by campergf23 View Post
    I'd also buy a sort of every day, non bike specific ones with like tweezers basic screw drivers, a knife, almost like a Swiss army knife
    campergf23, you happen to be in luck, you can see the other tool tray that I designed here: http://kck.st/1fDmyuH, it is swappable with the bike tools and includes scissors, screwdrivers, bottle-opener, USB drive, mirror, pen/stylus, LED light, eye-glass screwdrivers, tweezers and a few more items. Maybe just what you're looking for

  27. #27
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    I'd tell you to focus on the roadie market. When I'm on my mountain bike and riding with my phone, I most likely have a camelbak or similar bag where I just don't care about things being too compact. Now, on my road bike, I try to keep things in my 3 jersey pockets. If my phone could be combined with a specific tool kit, I'd go for that. Opens up some space in the other 2 pockets.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I'd tell you to focus on the roadie market. When I'm on my mountain bike and riding with my phone, I most likely have a camelbak or similar bag where I just don't care about things being too compact. Now, on my road bike, I try to keep things in my 3 jersey pockets. If my phone could be combined with a specific tool kit, I'd go for that. Opens up some space in the other 2 pockets.
    Good advice here.

    I definitely think staying (mostly) in the roadie/fixie/commuter market is going to be ideal for sales.

  29. #29
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    I need to add that yes, I think this is a great idea, but why I wouldn't run out and buy one is this. I have a couple multi-tools that I carry but very rarely ever use. So the purchase of another is unnecessary. Also, I carry my phone in my pocket most of the time and I know I don't want the added weight of a tool kit all the time. Which leads to not wanting to switch phone cases just to go ride.

    I also say drop the patches as well. I know they are small, but 1. I run tubeless and 2. I carry an extra tube with me...I never patch on the trail. I don't think I'm in the minority here.

  30. #30
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    No bottle opener and roach clip?

    Really Torx and a chain breaker are requirements for mtb'ers. Agreed that patches are better geared towards the fixie and roadie crowd.

  31. #31
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    He's got his priorities in order, there's a bottle opener.

  32. #32
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    I can see it now.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very welcome!-sap.jpg  

    I don't rattle.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I'd tell you to focus on the roadie market. When I'm on my mountain bike and riding with my phone, I most likely have a camelbak or similar bag where I just don't care about things being too compact. Now, on my road bike, I try to keep things in my 3 jersey pockets. If my phone could be combined with a specific tool kit, I'd go for that. Opens up some space in the other 2 pockets.
    Yeah I think you are on to something here Silentfoe. Once I can fit in a chain break, pump and extra tube in there then maybe it will be golden for the mountain bike market. Give me a couple more days and I will see what I can do

    Thanks everyone, great feedback!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ad1 View Post

    Hazerd - That is also my design! I have gone through now 6 revision of that design, it is much more refined now. The knife is removable in about 4 seconds, everything else in there is TSA compliant, so you just have to leave the knife at home or in your checked bag.
    Thought that allen wrench design looked familiar to your bike tool version. That's a nice design too. All of these remind me of an older credit card version I used to have & probably still do somewhere. I never throw anything out. Figuring out that chaintool & you might have a winner. Good luck.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  35. #35
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    Cool tool

    Still got this one around somewhere too. Broke the chaintool on it though. Oh the memories.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very welcome!-image.jpg  


  36. #36
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    Its a cool idea, but the actual tools look too flimsy to seriously be considered for offroad use. When you're 20 miles into some deep woods and no one is around, you need tools that won't let you down. Would be good for road use though, a roadie can just flag someone down or call a cab to get home if something breaks. But on a mountain bike your tools can be a lifeline.
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  37. #37
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    Do the tools rattle and make noise in the case? That would drive me crazy.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazerd Hownd View Post
    Still got this one around somewhere too. Broke the chaintool on it though. Oh the memories.
    Holy Sh!t! I forgot I had one of those until I saw your pic. Don't know what happened to it though.

  39. #39
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    Thanks for the share and good luck!

  40. #40
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    Very sweet idea. For the moment I'll stick with my CB multitool for my mtb but sign me up for one for my commuter/around town bike. Even it its a case alone not for my phone (really with so many phone types and I will never own an iPhone) be hard to cover the other half of riders that dont use apple phones.

    I'd say make one with just its own little slim case for the rest of us, I'll jump on one as soon as I know where to order.

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumbi4Prez View Post
    Do the tools rattle and make noise in the case? That would drive me crazy.
    Just pad it with fruit roll-ups to dampen noise and use as nutrition later.
    I don't rattle.

  42. #42
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    jsmith, I actually did a lot of work optimizing the the hardening process with the vendor (I spent a few days with them), I wanted the tools to be stiff, but not fracture and snap from over-hardening! The Allen wrench can take around 55 in-lbs before any deformation, which is more than you can apply with your hand due to the tool length (I had to use a fixture to apply this torque)!

    Gumbi4Prez, the tools don't rattle at all, they are held in a molded piece of foam nice and snug - that was one of my personal design goals also!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    I'd say make one with just its own little slim case for the rest of us, I'll jump on one as soon as I know where to order.
    You're in luck - I do have a version with just a blank tray so you can add in whatever you want! The tray is 3.5mm deep. http://kck.st/1fDmyuH

  44. #44
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    I think he meant one without the phone case. I know I would like to see one that was just as minimal as possible with the tools and case only.

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  45. #45
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    Kudos for the idea. Its brilliant and I like that you are covering different platforms. Personally I dont see the pedal wrench being useful. First of all I cant think of a trailside pedal change needed and secondly I can't imagine I (at least me personally) would be able to use a pedal wrench with such a short handle.

    For bike purposes I would focus on the allen keys being full sized. Something where the tips can be exchanged within some type of small driver would be great. There is no way I can see that device with the allens being usable.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    But on a mountain bike your tools can be a lifeline.
    I mis-read that as tools should last a life time. Same point though.

    Ive recently have done away with multi tools all together my bike is heave my pack is huge i carry all sorts of junk all full sized pedal wrench chain tool chain breaker full set of allens big pliers.... im sort of ham fisted so any tool that can easily brake will get demolished in no time.


    My advice is harsh but here goes. Any one thinking of quality tools will never buy a thin packing multi tool. its a novelty item to see to people that wont ever use it. So make it as cheap as possible to sell for a high margin.


    OR

    Make all the tools a couple mm thicker and have all the tools hade of titainium with custom laser etched markings and sell them as high end only in there own case for 150 a set.


    I dont see a middle of the road option... the multi tool market is too crowned as it is

  47. #47
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    I'm also extremely skeptical of your flat allen design. The biggest reason it bothers me is that bike parts often use cheap or soft and sometimes both fasteners. Using a tool design like yours is asking for trouble IMPO. When I designed my pedal wrench and had to make a custom hex bit for it, I was surprised that every pedal I grabbed was outside of the ISO spec for metric hex bolts. Something for you to think about if you're going to try and push this alternative design. It would add a lot of complexity in manufacturing to put a proper hex bit on the end of there, but I think it's worth it. It wouldn't kill your storage concept either.

    The storage aspect is nice, perhaps using a piggy back of an existing phone case would work out better for you? With the correct adhesive you could attach your product to any other smart phone case. . Integrating it into one specific case certainly is clean, but like others have said limits your options. It also drops your tooling costs significantly.

    The actual tools can be manufactured very easily and cost effectively in the United States and I encourage you to do so.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    I'm also extremely skeptical of your flat allen design. The biggest reason it bothers me is that bike parts often use cheap or soft and sometimes both fasteners.
    ^so true. a number of bolts on some of my bikes have excellent fasteners but the heads will strip out instantly you use anything other than the freshest sharpest Park allen key or something equally perfect.

  49. #49
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    my new bike-tool design - like nothing you have seen before! Feedback very we...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad1 View Post
    Hi MTBR, I hope everyone is having a good thursday! I wanted to share my newly designed bike tool and patch kit, it is not quite like anything you have seen before, I can guarantee that! A disclaimer, I did launch the product on a crowdfunding forum. If you want the link so you can see my funny face in the video, let me know via PM. I have also posted on a couple of other forums, I obviously do want to get the word out but don't want to spam you guys, and am looking for honest feedback!

    Now onto the fun stuff! The concept of the bike tool is that is contains everything you need for your commute or ride, 22 bike tools in all plut glueless tube patches. And, the best part, it is completely integrated into your phone case, so you just grab your phone and away you go. The included tools are:

    • Two tire irons
    • Pedal/Axle wrench
    • Flathead screwdriver
    • Phillips screwdriver
    • 6 Allen wrenches (1/16, 2.5mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm)
    • 4 Box wrenches (5.5mm, 7mm, 8mm, 10mm)
    • two spoke wrenches (.127 and .130)
    • Three glueless tire patches
    • Roughener for tire patch application
    • Bottle opener (for the end of the ride!)


    Here are some photos of the product, it weights 80g total, but packs a lot of tools into a super slim space that is really convenient to carry. Ultimately I would like to add a handlebar mount accessory if my crowdfunding campaign is successful so you got your nav and tools all in one! Anxious to hear the community's feedback, thoughts and questions!




    I see nothing there I would use--ever. Sizes I do not need. Tool designs that are weak, will not fit the components, and/or the damage the fasteners.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    I like the idea, but would have to buy a phone to make it work.
    Me too. I don't have an iPhone and I'm not likely to either.

  51. #51
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    I use a 25 torx bit, a chain breaker and an 8 mm for the crank bolts. The multi tools I have do the job very well already.

  52. #52
    Ad1
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    Hex wrench torque test video

    Thanks again for the feedback everyone - there is certainly a trend that some of you are wary of the 1.5mm steel tools. Understandably, they are thinner than some!

    I do appreciate the feedback and I wanted to make a quick video to show everyone a couple of the tests that I have done on the tools. The first video shows a torque test with three tools:
    1) Bondhus 5mm hex driver
    2) my 5mm 440C flat hex wrench
    3) my Metric Blue short L hex wrench

    Here is the video: TaskLab hex driver torque test - YouTube

    I'm sure there will be plenty of comments, so I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks after watching the video!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    I use a 25 torx bit, a chain breaker and an 8 mm for the crank bolts. The multi tools I have do the job very well already.
    Yeah the chain breaker will have to stay, can't fit that one in the case with any good reliability! I don't have torx bits, but that seems to be another trend that lots of people like in their tool. Thinking about that one...

  54. #54
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    What I would rather see is your tool in a worn bolt, or an aluminum shifter clamp bolt. How much torque can you apply before the fastener strips?

  55. #55
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    It's a nice little kit.

    As has been mentioned, I'd consider it as a emergency road tools, no way for MTB. Tools weights aren't much of an issue for me on a mtn bike, I want tools I know I can rely on. On a road bike however, space is at a premium, so they are attractive in that regard.

    Also, I have zero interest in having tools attached to my phone, they either live in my camelback or seatpack on the road bike. Make a nice slim no-phone case and I can see a market.

  56. #56
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    Hi

    thanks for the video but still does not equate to mtb parts except cable anchors

    60 inch pounds is 5 foot pounds

    nothing on my bike is as low as 5 foot pounds except cable pinch bolts
    so yes I reckon you can use that as brake or cable adjustment tool

    here is a nice chart showing common torque

    Park Tool Co. ParkTool Blog Torque Specifications and Concepts

    as I said before I think your market is the beach cruiser crowd.


    also, have an option to take the allen key tool by itself and sell it alone, no phone case. sell it as is...

  57. #57
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    The torx bits are usually used on brake rotors.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    The torx bits are usually used on brake rotors.
    It's exclusive for rotor bolts, but torx is also used for brake shoes (campy road), cable pinch bolts, rotor bolts, titanium fasteners, small adjuster screws and shifter/brake mounts from various manufactures. Most of those parts are higher end and may not be applicable to all users but it's worth considering.

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