mtbr.com classifieds deal gone bad? What do you think?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well mtbr.com classifieds deal gone bad? What do you think?

    [2/5/2007] I paid $50 for Hayes HFX-9's off of mtbr.com
    [2/5/2007] After being notified that shipping would be $12 I sent Mr. XXX an additional $12 via paypal.
    [2/6/2007] Mr. XXX claims to have sent the package and said I should recieve it within 5 days.
    [2/11/2007] After not recieving the package in the time span indicated by Mr. XXX, I requested a tracking #. Mr. XXX said it might take 1-2 more days because he sent it "ground" and that he left the tracking # at work.
    [2/14/2007] After further concern, I press him for the tracking # and he informs me the package was sent USPS parcel post and not "ground" and that there is no tracking #.
    [2/22/2007] Mr. XXX claims to have contacted the USPS about the problem, but either has not recieved a response or hasn't given me an update on their response.
    [2/26/2007] Mr. XXX admits that the shipment should have arrived by now and that the package was either lost or stolen. He refuses to refund the $50 + $12 I paid for the item and shipping but instead wants Paypal to resolve the issue.

    Tell me what you think is the right plan of action? I gave him $12 for shipping and he claims he sent it parcel post for $5. I'm not accusing him of not sending the brakes but they are not in my hands and he could have easily used a more reliable source of shipping or at least insured the package with the extra $7.

    Not tooting my own horn, however, I do hold myself to a high moral standard. He has implied that maybe I recieved the item and am doing all this to scam him out of $62. Kind of hurt seeing as how I'm that guy that always stops to help anyone and get them going again even if it means giving them my spares. I've even posted up on here a rear taillight I found on the Fullerton Loop because I didn't think it was right to keep it without an attempt at finding the rightful owner.

    Sorry if this was so long, in any case it has been filed with Paypal. I just want to make sure I'm not doing the "wrong" thing.

  2. #2

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    I once ordered a pair of winter tights from a guy on ebay. He shipped them USPS and they took almost a month to arrive. I was pretty cranky with the guy then realized it was USPS's fault. I'm not saying you didn't get ripped off and after three weeks, it does look suspicious but you'd have to think he was ripping people off mass-scale to make it worth his while. Has he sold a lot of stuff on mtbr? Can you check out his profile?

  3. #3
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    2 sides of the story

    Assuming your side of the story is acurate and true, the seller is lying. He knows exactly how the item was shipped, and it's too convenient taht wyhen called on the carpet for a tracking number, all of the sudden the method of shipment changed to one that does not provide tracking information.

    Unfortunately in these instances, it's difficult to ascertain where the whole truth lies. Best wishes in a resolution that makes all parties happy.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  4. #4
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    So much for the new classifieds helping with the fraud issues.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  5. #5
    El Pollo Diablo
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    <shrug>
    it sucks, but that's the reality of unregulated internet dealings...
    I remember back in the day when I got ripped off for triple digits the first time...

    sucks, hope you get it worked out!
    (and if Mr. XXX doesn't come through, let us know who he is.)

  6. #6
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    the best thing to do is get paypal involved and file a dispute with them and if you are not satisfied then you should escalate it to a claim, in which paypal will actually get involved and investigate the situation.

    sorry for the long winded sentence

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    So much for the new classifieds helping with the fraud issues.
    My only beef with the classifieds sections is that it allows deletion of the ad. I can no longer reference the ad or find the guys profile to see if he is doing this to anyone else. I don't have his username but only a name and an email address.

    In any case I think the "new" classifieds section is much better...err much more of an organized format.

  8. #8
    Trying a little
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    oh dude, you bought something from some stranger off some internet classifieds and got ripped off? Ah nuts

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkelley383
    the best thing to do is get paypal involved and file a dispute with them and if you are not satisfied then you should escalate it to a claim, in which paypal will actually get involved and investigate the situation.

    sorry for the long winded sentence
    I got paypal involved after he agreed that my shipment should have already arrived but he thinks I should be the one to cover the loss.

  10. #10
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    did you escalate it to a claim. if so then paypal will decide and they will have to refund you because there is no actual proof that he shipped it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish
    I got paypal involved after he agreed that my shipment should have already arrived but he thinks I should be the one to cover the loss.

  11. #11
    El Pollo Diablo
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    paypal doesn't have to do anything...
    they may elect to, but it comes down to his word against Mr. xxx.
    if xxx tries to mess with paypal, or doesn't get back to them, they'll help the OP out.

  12. #12
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    THat's IF there's money in the account. paypal can't actually recover funds not in the paypal account. So if the seller withdrew/used the money already, and the account is empty, then the buyer's SOL.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  13. #13
    ...idios...
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    "paypal can't actually recover funds not in the paypal account."

    Not so. PayPal will have a back-up source, most likely a credit card, which must be vaild at all times. PayPal will only transfer monies through bank transfer unless the back-up is valid. As far as the OP goes, the very fact that the guy lied about his method of posting would be enough to convince me of his shadiness. If he's straight-up, he has no reason to lie. I don't know what kind of postal service you get for $12, but would that amount not include a small insurance. In the UK, I can mail a complete hydraulic system anywhere in the country, full insured, for about 6, which is app. $12.
    When I pay over 35 (automatically insured) for anything from eBay, I always request a signed-for service. It may not always cover my loss with insurance, but at least proof of both posting and delivery are available.

    This might all turn out fine, hopefully. If it doesn't, just make sure you don't put yourself in the same position again. It doesn't mean you don't have to stop buying from classified ads, just make sure your back is covered.

    Steve

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


  14. #14
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    I do not know, but can't the buyer call his credit card co. and say he never got item, even if he already called paypal? I do believe that buyer should give up name, this way we all know. Also it stops these jokers from ripping people off. But again who knows the real story responding to what is here. Plus maybe missed it, but why did he not ship UPS, is it that much harder to set up an account with them, if you are selling alot of items?

    I really think names should be posted after awhile cause this seems to get reported here more often. I do realize you can ruin someone's name, but then again this story about shipper does seem shady. IMO

  15. #15
    Derailleurless
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    USPS parcel post is notoriously slow, but three weeks is excessive. Then again, it'll probably land on your door step any day now.

    My stance as a seller -- whether I insure an item or not -- is that I'm responsible for making sure it lands on the buyer's doorstep. That's why I'll almost always use a tracking or delivery confirmation service (now possible via 1st class mail with eBay/PayPal, by the way).

    If the tracking number shows it delivered, then the buyer is on the hook for a stolen package. If I don't use a tracking number (rare), I figure it's my responsibility to eat the cost of the undelivered package.

    Happy to report that after hundreds of eBay sales, neither USPS nor FedEx nor UPS has let me down.

    I think it's smart that you're pursuing this through PayPal, but I would suggest keeping in daily contact with the seller in the hope of resolving this personally.
    speedub.nate
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  16. #16
    Do It Yourself
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    My stance as a seller -- whether I insure an item or not -- is that I'm responsible for making sure it lands on the buyer's doorstep. That's why I'll almost always use a tracking or delivery confirmation service (now possible via 1st class mail with eBay/PayPal, by the way).
    This is PayPal policy as well. The seller is responsible for delivering the goods. If the seller wants additional protection, they should insist on insurance and it's the seller's responsibility to file the claim with the carrier. If it's like you say, PayPal should refund your money.

    I had to go through PayPal to get a refund once. Some dip on eBay tried to sell polished LX cranks advertised as XT. Then he didn't want to refund shipping after I pointed out his mistake. PayPal refunded my money (full amount of the transaction) after I provided proof I shipped the package back to the seller.

    Good luck.
    Long Live Long Rides

  17. #17
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    "paypal can't actually recover funds not in the paypal account."

    Not so. PayPal will have a back-up source, most likely a credit card, which must be vaild at all times.
    Quite so... I've had paypal investigations/claims end in them saying "yes the seller is at fault but there were no funds available to recover".
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Quite so... I've had paypal investigations/claims end in them saying "yes the seller is at fault but there were no funds available to recover".
    Yeah I was afraid of that, but I have enough information on this 17 year old to make him a little uncomfortable. Doesn't help his cause that I am a law clerk for the los angeles da's office, then against its only $62.

  19. #19
    Derailleurless
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish
    ...then against its only $62.
    Yeah, but now he's your "karmic" responsibility to prevent him from doing this to somebody else. Or something like that...
    speedub.nate
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  20. #20
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    I'll make sure to post up all the publicly acquired information on him as soon as I'm 100% positive he's scamming me. So far he hasn't responded to paypal.

  21. #21
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    But I've never seen a case where Paypal actually pulled funds from a credit card to cover a claim like that. I used to have a business and we had probably 300+ Paypal transactions per month. I do know that a few times, we lost disputes with customers, and in each case, Paypal had to wait until I transferred funds into the account or more payments came in before they would refund the customer. They never pulled funds from my credit card.

    And FWIW, never ship something without a valid tracking number if you use Paypal. You will lose the case every time if you can't provide the tracking number to Paypal when someone files a claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    "paypal can't actually recover funds not in the paypal account."

    Not so. PayPal will have a back-up source, most likely a credit card, which must be vaild at all times. PayPal will only transfer monies through bank transfer unless the back-up is valid. As far as the OP goes, the very fact that the guy lied about his method of posting would be enough to convince me of his shadiness. If he's straight-up, he has no reason to lie. I don't know what kind of postal service you get for $12, but would that amount not include a small insurance. In the UK, I can mail a complete hydraulic system anywhere in the country, full insured, for about 6, which is app. $12.
    When I pay over 35 (automatically insured) for anything from eBay, I always request a signed-for service. It may not always cover my loss with insurance, but at least proof of both posting and delivery are available.

    This might all turn out fine, hopefully. If it doesn't, just make sure you don't put yourself in the same position again. It doesn't mean you don't have to stop buying from classified ads, just make sure your back is covered.

    Steve

  22. #22
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    This is PayPal policy as well. The seller is responsible for delivering the goods. If the seller wants additional protection, they should insist on insurance and it's the seller's responsibility to file the claim with the carrier. If it's like you say, PayPal should refund your money.

    I had to go through PayPal to get a refund once. Some dip on eBay tried to sell polished LX cranks advertised as XT. Then he didn't want to refund shipping after I pointed out his mistake. PayPal refunded my money (full amount of the transaction) after I provided proof I shipped the package back to the seller.

    Good luck.
    Just curious, but which models LX and XT were you dealing with?

  23. #23
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    If it doesn't show, and you are pretty certain that he is ripping you...then check up on mail fraud...if he agreed to send it thru the usps...then not doing so and keeping the money could be a federal offense... just sumthin to think about
    " No! try not, Do or do not. There is no try. "

  24. #24
    President Skroob
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    What's happened? I am a bit curious how this turns out.

  25. #25
    Do It Yourself
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    Just curious, but which models LX and XT were you dealing with?

    It was a few years ago, M751 XT era. The corresponding LX (M571?) arms were normally a bluish color where the XT were silver. A close look at the spider should have tipped me off but I didn't look that closely.
    Long Live Long Rides

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    What's happened? I am a bit curious how this turns out.
    He never responded to Paypal, and they found in my favor. Unfortunately, Mr. XXX has no money in his account. I went ahead and via the advice of American Express disputed the charges (aka "chargeback").

    I want to post Mr. XXX's real identity (to prevent this from happening to others) but I am confused on whether he really scammed me or the package never made it. (I'll ask the admin whether in this circumstance its appropriate to post his identity or if we have a forum/feedback area to do so).

    Either way I do believe he should have reimbursed me because he chose a cheap shipping method without even getting insurance when he had plenty of money leftover from what I paid for shipping to do so. Any time I sell something via the internet, I insure the package and get a tracking # so that the ball is in the buyer's court. The ball never made it in my court and I hope paypal goes after him.

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