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  1. #1
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    Mountain Biker's dog shot while out on the trails

    So the local news reported today that a dog that had gone missing while out mountain biking with it's owner and was found days later deceased, had been shot. The dog ran off the trail and never returned, there was a big search for the dog, but it was not found until days later, unfortunately dead. Vet confirmed the dog had died of gun shot.

    This happened on our local trails that are only 10 minutes from where I live (rural area). I ride there all the time (I'm in the top 10 trail users according to Trailforks), and take my dogs out on the same trails as where this happened. I was out there with my one dog close to when this occured. It's disturbing to think that this can happen. This is a small trail system that is not by any homes or private land, pretty quiet, I take my dogs out there because you very rarely run into anyone (I don't take them to busy trail systems). How does this happen? Some hunter that shot at something they shouldn't have? Someone that didn't like dogs and took the opportunity to get rid of one?

    Not a lot of details on this story yet, but it makes me concerned about taking my dogs out. Hoping to ride this weekend with the one dog but won't be going to this trail system right now, just not feeling it.

  2. #2
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    Concerning for sure but I doubt this Yahoo would shoot a dog if the owner was with it. I’d continue your normal routine.
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  3. #3
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    Wasn't on a leash. Dogs attack people and act aggressive. That's the risk you take when you ride with a dog off leash. 99.99% time it's probably going to be fine. If you value your dog so much that you can't possibly deal with something like this, maybe stay off the trails or go leashed 100% of the time. Otherwise, accept the risk. If someone does act out of malice, you can press charges.
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  4. #4
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    I once shot an elephant in my pajamas...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I once shot an elephant in my pajamas...
    How the **** did an elephant get into your pajamas?

  6. #6
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    Gun shots in the woods can usually be heard from a mile away or more (a .22 would be an exception). If the rider did not hear a gun shot, then the dog was likely well away from the rider.

    What kind of dog? A husky or malamute could be mistaken for wolf or coyote.

    Certainly not enough info to draw any conclusions.

    Dogs running free on a MTB trail is not the greatest idea. It could put the dog and riders at risk.

  7. #7
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    I guess the dog got lost and was shot later after the rider had left? Otherwise, the owner would have heard the gunshot but from your description it sounds like they didn't. So if your dogs run off, I'd be concerned; if they stay with you, I wouldn't be. And I take it the dog wasn't on the trails if it is a small trail system and it wasn't found for several days.
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    Was the dog on a leash?

  9. #9
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    People suck.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by myt1 View Post
    Was the dog on a leash?

    If not then that dog had it coming
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Wasn't on a leash. Dogs attack people and act aggressive. That's the risk you take when you ride with a dog off leash. 99.99% time it's probably going to be fine. If you value your dog so much that you can't possibly deal with something like this, maybe stay off the trails or go leashed 100% of the time. Otherwise, accept the risk. If someone does act out of malice, you can press charges.
    Yeah, what he said and where do you live that a dog going missing is news?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    How the **** did an elephant get into your pajamas?
    One night stand??!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yeah, what he said and where do you live that a dog going missing is news?

    I think the news was about the fact that someone shot it, not that the dog was missing.
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  14. #14
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    Some hunters will shoot a free-ranging dog (or cat) on sight simply to keep them from eating or harassing game. If these trails were on or near property that allows hunting that may be what happened.

  15. #15
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    Impossible to guess whether it was done out of malice or a case of mistaken identity. Hopefully the latter.

    My dog rocks a safety orange vest anytime she's in the woods during deer season.
    Almost no one leashes their dogs on our local trails; not an issue around here.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Some hunters will shoot a free-ranging dog (or cat) on sight simply to keep them from eating or harassing game. If these trails were on or near property that allows hunting that may be what happened.

    No doubt, see post #9.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    How the **** did an elephant get into your pajamas?
    Are we talking a the whole elephant, or just the trunk? And was it a pink elephant?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    No doubt, see post #9.
    Seriously. It's one thing (I guess) if a dog or dogs are actively running game, but shoot on sight? 100% asshole move that I'd hope someone would see jail time for.

    And cats eating game? What, are people hunting mice now?
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  19. #19
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    sad the dog was shot

    ---voice control, or leash...or don't go in the woods---


    pretty simple

    if you don't have voice control over your unleashed dog, that is your fault, not the dogs
    as just about all dogs can be trained...it just takes some actual effort by the owner not just 'hope my dog will turn out OK'
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  20. #20
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    Paws up, don't shoot! DLM.

  21. #21
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    Who knows what the dog was doing once it was no longer under the control on the owner. It could have been harassing people or livestock, if that's the case, then good shoot.

    Control your dog and this doesn't happen

  22. #22
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    I was out night riding with a group of friends and we stopped to take a quick break. While we were sitting at a picnic table, a big Weimaraner comes running out of one of the trails heading full steam towards us while growling and barking. It's lucky it stopped short of us when the owner whistled at it as it was about to get shot, both myself and my buddy pulled our guns (both CCW holders with plenty of shooting experience). It was pitch black out and the dog was off leash in a public park which is against Florida State laws. It really scared one of the girls with us. The owner acted like it was no big deal so my buddy let him have it about having his dogs off leash.

    I'm a dog owner and lover but I'll shoot one if I have to. People need to realize that others aren't always dog lovers and having them off leash can lead to bad things, unfortunately.

    **For clarification, we only had our guns with us because it was a night ride and people had spotted some bears in the area we were riding the night before. We don't normally carry them while riding.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Seriously. It's one thing (I guess) if a dog or dogs are actively running game, but shoot on sight? 100% asshole move that I'd hope someone would see jail time for.

    And cats eating game? What, are people hunting mice now?
    Jail would never happen, nor should it. Asshole move? Perhaps, but at the end of the day would be a property destruction crime at most. Most likely it would be a civil matter.

    BTW, it is not necessarily about a dog literally chasing game, but rather their presence chasing game out of the area. I don't ride in certain areas, even on my property, leading up to hunting season to avoid "chasing" game out of the area.

    Feral cats are a big issue in many areas. They can play havoc with the bird population and that could impact hunters and birders alike (not to mention the birds).

  24. #24
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    My take-away from this thread is to make sure you are accountable for your animal if you are out with it.

    It's pure speculation, of course, with no information whatsoever regarding the incident.

    As I read the story, my mind first went to "it may have been threatening a child".

    I have never ridden with a dog, well just once.
    I see dogs quite often when I am running or riding. I do not like unleashed dogs in the public trailways. They are just a hazard to most anybody that isn't their owner. Most of the time a walker will restrain a dog but I haven't seen a moving MTB rider stop to restrain it. If they are not riding, yes they have restrained them.

    I was on a group ride once with a friend and their dog. I sort of led us as I knew the trail and he didn't. Of course the dog wanted to be up front. I was constantly slowing or swerving to miss the dog. Yeah, it was fine -I just wasn't used to the dog. But when a runner came at us in the opposite direction and saw the loose dog she stopped (as I always do as a runner approaching a dog). I'm sure we have all been in the exact scenario, either side. Anyway, as I was the first rider I felt like I was looked at as "the guy" who lets his dog run loose.
    I know the dog, he is friendly. But strangers don't know that.

    But still at the end of the day, we have no idea how this particular incident happened and probably not something to be concerned about if a person wishes to continue having their dog with them.
    It is terrible to hear about all the same. But there isn't any information to place blame on the rider or to the gun owner.
    Leashed or unleased, there is always the risk of a dog becoming involved in an animal fight on the trail. It is a risk. This example was a case of the dog running off for 'whatever reason".

    My sympathy to the dog owner, and if the shooter felt threatened or was threatening something else, I feel sympathy for the shooter to make the decision they had.

  25. #25
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    I highly doubt the dog was acting in a threatening manner. He was someone's buddy. This sounds like a total azzhat move. Too bad there is no way to find out who the shooter was. Dumbazz. ugh.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Who knows what the dog was doing once it was no longer under the control on the owner.

    Exactly. Likely though it was behaving like most animals do when they're lost and frightened, which is generally non aggressive. Anyway, people harass me occasionally and I don't shoot them. Usually.

    Yes people should control their pets but sometimes $hit happens, it doesn't mean an animal deserves to be shot. If someone shot my dog I would come at them like a crazed wolverine.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Some hunters will shoot a free-ranging dog (or cat) on sight simply to keep them from eating or harassing game. If these trails were on or near property that allows hunting that may be what happened.
    Thats pretty messed up...
    I've been hunting for over 32 years and I've never heard of anyone doing this?
    In fact, pretty much anyone I've ever hunted with takes hunting safety, laws, and regulations pretty seriously. And most are also dog lovers.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotHead View Post
    I highly doubt the dog was acting in a threatening manner. He was someone's buddy. This sounds like a total azzhat move. Too bad there is no way to find out who the shooter was. Dumbazz. ugh.
    I've had a dog act aggressively towards my kid while he was in a trailer. The dogs owner, a mtn biker didn't have control over his dog. I'm sure he and his dog were buddies, but that dog wasn't buddies with my kid or me. The owner did little to control his dog so I had to get aggressive with it too protect my kid.

    Everyone thinks their dog is fine, until it isn't

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    It was pitch black out and the dog was off leash in a public park which is against Florida State laws. .
    So you guys found found a public park with 24 hour legal access?
    Funny, most close at sunset.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    So you guys found found a public park with 24 hour legal access?
    Funny, most close at sunset.
    Many around me close at 10pm, allowing legal night riding

  31. #31
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    Was this dog that got shot wearing pajamas..

  32. #32
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    Thank god most hunters are better people than some posting here.

    We had a dog shot some years back at a local park.
    Reaction from legit hunters was extremely critical of whoever did it.

    Bad News for All of Us in Mass [Archive] - Hunting Chat

    "We do need better hunters....but how do we get them? Education isn't going to stop a guy like this from shooting a black lab running through the woods, so how do we pull guys of this caliber out of the woods? Further legislation of some sort? Nobody wants that, right? So how do we keep Joe Blow with a clean record out of the deer woods where he feels the need to kill "deer chasers" or just wants to hear the gun go bang?"

    "We are not talking about a hunter. This is a person breaking the law, a criminal. The same person that would steal your tree stand, game cam or your traps. The same guy that would shoot a deer on posted land. We can't afford to have dirt bags like this in our sport."

    "If somebody takes their dog for a walk in the state forest they should be feel safe letting the dog off a leash and let it run free for the duration of their walk....come on people! Can you tell me what the difference between that woman letting her lab run free and somebody hunting birds with a dog in there? Nothing! There is no difference.... The shooter is 1000% in the wrong and the woman with the dog should not absorb any fault in any way, shape, or form from us. The dog doesn't need any extra protection, like an orange vest, or anything like that. The dog was shot by somebody who knew exactly what he was shooting at....he knew it was not a deer and he knew that it was a labrador retriever."

    "In the Bershires/Western MA its one thing but in the suburbs its another. And generally they say if more than one dog is running it its a pack of stray dogs and to shoot 'em. A dog running deer on the east would be a pet that came upon a deer. Mine hunting dogs have done it, nobody better shoot my pups or I will be digging a BIG hole.


    Has anyone done anything for this woman? Wanna donate to her Vet fees and towards a new dog???? Just a thought? That would be better publicity in the paper for us and show that guy was just a BAD APPLE."
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  33. #33
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    most jurisdictions have fretted over the 'dog issue ' for centuries.

    the current laws exist for a reason,
    they were carefully thought out over many many years of
    loose dogs causing some sort of mayhem and what can we
    do to protect innocent bystanders....

    you out in public with doggo ?
    -voice control-
    -leash-

    that's it. simple, effective. carefully thought about before being made law.

    you want to be a scofflaw (and they are numerous and endless as we all know)
    then you are open to a tort case (civil legal liability) should anything happen
    to anyone else as a result of encountering your loose doggo.

    but that doesn't mean you can shoot the damn mutt. dogs aren't in season anywhere around the US. maybe if your life was threatened though and owner nowhere in sight.

    having said all that I have been cornered in the woods once by 5 loose dogs of all mutt-races ganging up on me and surrounding me barking and snarling...exactly what roving pack of strays would look like and act like....I was beyond terrified, my legs elvising.. and got my 14 inch silky saw out and was ready to start slashing...then owner comes along minutes later acting like I am the problem, no big deal. I wanted to punch that puke in the throat.
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  34. #34
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    After reading a thread on here about a dog poisoned by coyote poison on private property near a public trail, I'm a lot more cognizant of the fact that when you let your dog off leash you accept that you are giving up control and risking a poor outcome. Doesn't make this right, but it's something all dog owners should consider.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Seriously. It's one thing (I guess) if a dog or dogs are actively running game, but shoot on sight? 100% asshole move that I'd hope someone would see jail time for.

    And cats eating game? What, are people hunting mice now?
    Dunno what people are hunting these days, but a couple years ago an 18 year old kid in our little town was arrested for shooting his neighbor's cat with an arrow. He had a practice archery range in his back yard and the cat wandered in. Cat wandered back home to die with the arrow stuck in it.
    No dig no whine

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Thank god most hunters are better people than some posting here.
    No one has defended the shooter or his/her actions. Some have speculated that the dog must have posed a threat. Very logical in that most could not imagine shooting a dog unless it was posing a threat.

    I'll leave it to God to sort out the "better people".

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    but that doesn't mean you can shoot the damn mutt. dogs aren't in season anywhere around the US. maybe if your life was threatened though and owner nowhere in sight.
    No, you can't legally hunt dogs, but that doesn't mean they can't be shot in some instances (note, I'm not advocating for or against that). I recall seeing a county sign (about 20 years ago) on a road heading out towards some agricultural and forest land that said "At large dogs may be shot. County Ordinance ######." Not sure if that sign is still around or not, but in general, loose dogs harassing livestock can be shot legally.

    Just looked up our county animal control ordinances. Says "Any dog at large which chases, injures, or kills any livestock not belonging to its owner may be killed immediately by any person."

    Doesn't sound like that was the case for the OP's story, but something to keep in mind if you ride in areas near livestock and run your dog off leash. Guy I know brought his (usually really well behaved) dog on a ride. We rode past a field with cows grazing between the trailhead and trails, and his dog jumps the fence and bee lines for the cows and started chasing them all over creation. Farmer would have been within his rights to shoot the dog had he seen it.
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  38. #38
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    I've watched enough Judge Judy to know a dog needs to be on a leash, or you lose!

    Seriously, a dog owner needs to take accountability for the dog's actions, including shitting all over the place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    People suck.
    This is all you need to know.

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    I've seen enough STATE laws regarding dogs state that dogs threatening YOU or your FAMILY may also be shot. Since the dog wasn't near the owner when this happened, we simply don't know what the scenario was. My wife's an emergency veterinarian and sees more than her share of dogs and cats that have been shot when they've been loose. Some people just shoot at-large dogs/cats, no question, whether they're threatening their property or family or not. And frankly, if the owner's not there, there's absolutely nothing the owner can say that can stop the shooter from claiming that the animal was being threatening or damaging property. If you're in the city or the 'burbs, then circumstances might be able to rule out certain things, but out in a rural area, there are a lot more possible, legal, scenarios in which the shooter can be cleared.

    It sucks that this happened to that dog, but if you're going to take your dog out into public off-leash, then you've got a pretty high standard of control that you need to have. The dog needs to be better-behaved than one that's kept on-leash, or within a fenced yard. If you're going to ride on some trails with an off-leash dog, especially so. You need excellent verbal control. The dog needs to be well-behaved/trained enough to require very little verbal feedback to keep it under control. It needs to stay within sight so you know when you need to exert verbal control. It can't be off running through the woods on the other side of the ridge, or half a mile ahead of or behind you. And you need to have a leash on-hand that you can use as necessary.

  41. #41
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    If someone shot a dog to death on public land for a legitimate and legal reason, I would assume that's something they would report to the authorities. Since no one bothered calling it in, I'm going to assume there's a fair chance it was some asshole who was just dying to shoot something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    If someone shot a dog to death on public land for a legitimate and legal reason, I would assume that's something they would report to the authorities. Since no one bothered calling it in, I'm going to assume there's a fair chance it was some asshole who was just dying to shoot something.
    You can assume, but I've noted countless situations where people are whining about all sorts of illegal activity on public lands, yet they NEVER CALL AUTHORITIES about it.

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    No, you can't legally hunt dogs, but that doesn't mean they can't be shot in some instances (note, I'm not advocating for or against that). I recall seeing a county sign (about 20 years ago) on a road heading out towards some agricultural and forest land that said "At large dogs may be shot. County Ordinance ######." Not sure if that sign is still around or not, but in general, loose dogs harassing livestock can be shot legally.

    Just looked up our county animal control ordinances. Says "Any dog at large which chases, injures, or kills any livestock not belonging to its owner may be killed immediately by any person.


    which is bs in many cases, if ranchers leave their cattle unattended (and unleashed) on public lands they should take their chances just like anyone else. If one of their cows busts through my fence and tromps through my garden and harrasses my dogs I would be fined or jailed if I shot it even though it was on my private land and destined for McDonald's anyway. This happened to me several times btw.

    Seems imbalanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    So you guys found found a public park with 24 hour legal access?
    Funny, most close at sunset.

    Considering it's dark by 6pm here in Central Florida, I didn't need to. But thanks for the assumption!
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    You can assume, but I've noted countless situations where people are whining about all sorts of illegal activity on public lands, yet they NEVER CALL AUTHORITIES about it.
    I wasn't thinking someone else, I was thinking the shooter should report it himself as a responsible hunter if he was actually defending himself, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I wasn't thinking someone else, I was thinking the shooter should report it himself as a responsible hunter if he was actually defending himself, etc.
    you're assuming the shooter was a hunter? could have been anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    you're assuming the shooter was a hunter? could have been anyone.
    Okay, a responsible anyone then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Considering it's dark by 6pm here in Central Florida, I didn't need to. But thanks for the assumption!
    The vast majority of parks close at sundown rather than a particular time of day, so it's not an unreasonable assumption.

    Which park were you in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotHead View Post
    I highly doubt the dog was acting in a threatening manner.
    Everyone always says this. And when a dog ever bites anyone it's always "he's never done that before!"

    A dog separated and lost might be scared and acting on instincts in a survival mode. Don't be naive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Okay, a responsible anyone then.
    As I said, I've encountered enough situations where people have witnessed blatantly illegal activities on public land that they don't report, that I wouldn't necessarily assume someone would report shooting a dog if it was a justified shooting. Sure, failure to report it does push suspicion towards someone shooting it just because they wanted to, but it's just suspicion.

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The vast majority of parks close at sundown rather than a particular time of day, so it's not an unreasonable assumption.

    Which park were you in?
    Vast majority? Maybe where you live, but not necessarily everywhere. City parks tend to follow daylight hours more closely, but that varies. Most state parks I've visited tend to follow a "set hours" type of schedule that permits a certain amount of night riding. Especially if said park has camping facilities. Some places do some combo of both. They adjust closing times seasonally, and at least at certain times of year, close just enough after sundown to permit night riding.

    I've seen city parks that normally close at sunset allow night riding under certain circumstances, even. They basically treat it as a "special event" and therefore require more organization and control. Basically that someone has to keep track of who's riding and make sure everybody makes it off the trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    As I said, I've encountered enough situations where people have witnessed blatantly illegal activities on public land that they don't report, that I wouldn't necessarily assume someone would report shooting a dog if it was a justified shooting. Sure, failure to report it does push suspicion towards someone shooting it just because they wanted to, but it's just suspicion.



    Vast majority? Maybe where you live, but not necessarily everywhere. City parks tend to follow daylight hours more closely, but that varies. Most state parks I've visited tend to follow a "set hours" type of schedule that permits a certain amount of night riding.
    Appears that State Parks in FL shut at sundown, including the popular ones in the area he's from. So not an unreasonable question at all IMO.

    You and I both know that in practice, much/most night riding on public lands is done 'under the radar'. Personally, when I'm coloring outside the lines myself, I'm not big on calling out other people out for also bending the rules a bit. Pretty hypocritical.

    But hey, we'll see. Maybe he was riding 100% legally and just scares easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The vast majority of parks close at sundown rather than a particular time of day, so it's not an unreasonable assumption.

    Which park were you in?
    It's a State Park. Of one trailheads "closes" at sundown but there are no rules as far as usage of the trails after sundown. I say "closes" because the gate for the campground is locked but campers are given the code because people need to be able to leave in case of an emergency. A few of the local shops put on weekly night rides at said trails that don't even start until 6 or 6:30. All approved by the Office of Greenways and Trails.

    But all that is irrelevant because dude almost got his dog shot by not following state laws knowing he had a big, apparently somewhat aggressive dog off leash.


    Edit: I don't scare easily, but I'm also not about to let a large dog,that's running full speed towards our group while growling and barking, potentially bite someone because the asshat owner was breaking the law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Appears that State Parks in FL shut at sundown, including the popular ones in the area he's from. So not an unreasonable question at all IMO.

    You and I both know that in practice, much/most night riding on public lands is done 'under the radar'. Personally, when I'm coloring outside the lines myself, I'm not big on calling out other people out for also bending the rules a bit. Pretty hypocritical.

    But hey, we'll see. Maybe he was riding 100% legally and just scares easy.
    Is it? Not where I've lived. I've known of SOME night riding done "under the radar" but MOST has been done 100% legitimately. Where I live now, there are hundreds of miles of trails where you can ride (or hike, or whatever) 100% legally all night long. And of the places that don't, most have a set closing time of 10pm.

    Why the DEEP interest in chadbrochills' night riding habits? Neither you nor I are anywhere near local to him.

    IMO, pulling a firearm on a strange dog that's barking and approaching aggressively in the middle of the woods is justified. Regardless of whether the night riding was legal or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    If not then that dog had it coming
    If it would've been on a leash it wouldn't be dead right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Why the DEEP interest in chadbrochills' night riding habits? Neither you nor I are anywhere near local to him.
    Nor are we anywhere near local to the OP.
    So why the DEEP interest in this thread?
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    ...I don't shoot them. Usually.
    Reported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Are we talking a the whole elephant, or just the trunk? And was it a pink elephant?
    This is why elephants aren't allowed on beaches -- they can't keep their trunks up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mckinley View Post
    So the local news reported today that a dog that had gone missing while out mountain biking with it's owner and was found days later deceased, had been shot. The dog ran off the trail and never returned, ...
    wow
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The vast majority of parks close at sundown rather than a particular time of day, so it's not an unreasonable assumption.

    Which park were you in?
    What? Perhaps where you live. I can ride in village, county parks and state parks after dark. 9, 10 and 11pm respectively. It get's dark here at 4:30pm this time of year.

    Your statement of "vast majority" is incorrect, thus an invalid assumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myt1 View Post
    If it would've been on a leash it wouldn't be dead right now.


    Yeah, at minimum it should have been wearing a blaze orange vest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    So you guys found found a public park with 24 hour legal access?
    Funny, most close at sunset.
    There's closure and there's closure. There's a park near me that "closes" at sunset, however the rangers and cops are completely fine with mountain bikers in there at any time of night because we tend to keep the unsavory elements out. The park is closed if you want to set up a meth lab, but riding a bike, not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    What? Perhaps where you live. I can ride in village, county parks and state parks after dark. 9, 10 and 11pm respectively. It get's dark here at 4:30pm this time of year.

    Your statement of "vast majority" is incorrect, thus an invalid assumption.
    Okay, vast majority in FL, which close at sunset. Check it out; not an assumption, but the way it is.

    Definitely a whole lot more valid than people assuming somebody's family pet all of a sudden turned turned into Cujo after getting lost and needs to be shot cuz it barked at at stranger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    There's closure and there's closure. There's a park near me that "closes" at sunset, however the rangers and cops are completely fine with mountain bikers in there at any time of night because we tend to keep the unsavory elements out. The park is closed if you want to set up a meth lab, but riding a bike, not so much.
    Same here. They also don't tend to be pretty chill about off-leash dogs.
    So, to my point, it's lame to get all 'letter of the law' about other people when you're not a stickler about it for yourself.
    I personally put leash law violations somewhere under jay-walking in the crime hierarchy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Same here. They also don't tend to be pretty chill about off-leash dogs.
    So, to my point, it's lame to get all 'letter of the law' about other people when you're not a stickler about it for yourself.
    I personally put leash law violations somewhere under jay-walking in the crime hierarchy.
    Growling and barking by an unrestrained aggressive dog is a lot higher up on the crime hierarchy than trespassing. That's why you can legally shoot them

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    Used to live and ride in a highly populated area that had many trail systems that had grazing leases and the trails also bordered private ranch land. One of the ranchers/property owners would shoot any off leash dog that entered his property. Killed several dogs over the years. People freaked out, but apparently it was entirely in his right to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    sad the dog was shot

    ---voice control, or leash...or don't go in the woods---


    pretty simple

    if you don't have voice control over your unleashed dog, that is your fault, not the dogs
    as just about all dogs can be trained...it just takes some actual effort by the owner not just 'hope my dog will turn out OK'
    Nice ‘blaming the victim’. No one said it was the dog’s fault...that blame lies squarely on the a$$hole that shot him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    People suck.
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    I was riding through a previously-unbeknownst-to-me homeless camp, and came up on a large pit bull standing in the trail. No hoomans in sight. My first thought was I wish I had pepper spray. My last thought was I wish I had a leash & collar to take her home; she was a sweetie.

    Sorry, I know that has **** all to do with this thread. It's probably the vodka talking. Carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Nice ‘blaming the victim’. No one said it was the dog’s fault...that blame lies squarely on the a$$hole that shot him.
    no one knows why the dog was shot, so you could be "blaming the victim"

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    delete

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Nice ‘blaming the victim’. No one said it was the dog’s fault...that blame lies squarely on the a$$hole that shot him.
    You have no idea why the dog was shot, ZERO. Blame could as easily be with the azz hat MTBr that let his/her dog go uncontrolled while he/she was riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myt1 View Post
    If it would've been on a leash it wouldn't be dead right now.
    No, but rider may have been dragged to death.
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    So unfortunately there isn't much info on this incident, far more questions than answers. Police and crime stoppers are asking for info from anyone who has heard or knows anything. News report is short and vague.

    What I didn't say in the original post was someone had put up a post on facebook on the local mtb page about their dog that went missing from this trail system at the same time that is in the news report, dog was missing same time and the facebook report posted a few days later that the dog had been found dead (they had searched for days). Without names or pictures I can't be certain it's the same dog, but I'm pretty sure it is, too many similarities and they just posted a link to the news report, so if it's the same dog then it was a medium sized dog, friendly, been biking with it's owner for 4 plus years and this was unusual for the dog to take off. No explanation as to why the dog took off, no report if anyone had heard a gunshot, very little info really.

    The dog was found by the mouth of the river which is quite a distance from the ridge trail and this dog avoided fast water according to the owner, makes me wonder how it ended up in the river.

    This trail system is on land owned by a gravel company. It's at the end of the road and there is no development beyond the gates. River on the left and logging roads on the right that go on forever. No houses, farms or such out there. This is on Vancouver Island, mid island, small rural community. The gate has no trespassing signs (even though your allowed access) but I can't remember if there is a no hunting sign.

    Dogs are allowed off leash there as they are at many parks here. That said I do agree that it is the owners responsibility and risk when heading out. And just because an area allows dogs off leash doesn't always mean you should. I live 30 minutes from a large mtb/multi use trail system that is a mtb destination here on the island, and you are allowed dogs there. I don't take my dogs because it is busy and they are big dogs, not everyone likes that, so they stay home. There are only a few trail systems that I do take them too (and they are allowed off leash) and they are remote trails where you almost never see anyone. I'm pretty careful where I take them so as to avoid any conflict. Their mainly my backpacking dogs but enjoy a good run with the bike.

    What I would like to know since I frequent these trails is if the dog was shot in the trail system (and then dumped in the river?) or if it actually ran all the way back to someones property and was then shot. So far no one has stepped forward with info, but it's a small community so hopefully we get some answers eventually.

    Whew, that was a long winded reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mckinley View Post

    Whew, that was a long winded reply.
    That's ok, thanks for the update/additional info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    The vast majority of parks close at sundown rather than a particular time of day, so it's not an unreasonable assumption.
    When I lived in Maryland, I rode a local park that closed at sunset, but I have yet to see this in Oklahoma at city or state parks. Considering the popularity of night riding, I find it hard to believe this state is the exception.

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    Our parks in Alaska don't close at sunset...if they did, they'd only be open for 6hrs!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Jail would never happen, nor should it. Asshole move? Perhaps, but at the end of the day would be a property destruction crime at most. Most likely it would be a civil matter.

    BTW, it is not necessarily about a dog literally chasing game, but rather their presence chasing game out of the area. I don't ride in certain areas, even on my property, leading up to hunting season to avoid "chasing" game out of the area.

    Feral cats are a big issue in many areas. They can play havoc with the bird population and that could impact hunters and birders alike (not to mention the birds).
    Yeah, I could not care less about sport hunters.

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    A lot of ASSumptions going around...

    It sucks, but the owner shouldn't have had the dog off leash if it's not trained well enough. Large majority of dogs off leash are all over the place and not listening to the owner.

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    What kind of dog was it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Wasn't on a leash. Dogs attack people and act aggressive. That's the risk you take when you ride with a dog off leash. 99.99% time it's probably going to be fine. If you value your dog so much that you can't possibly deal with something like this, maybe stay off the trails or go leashed 100% of the time. Otherwise, accept the risk. If someone does act out of malice, you can press charges.
    This is correct. Leash laws are in place for a number of reasons:
    • Protect the Dog from Danger
    • Protect others from the dog
    • Protects other dogs from the dog


    Where I live there are very clear leash laws. About 8 or 9 years ago I took my pit bull, who is very friendly and used to be in my profile pic out hiking with me in my local riding area. I decided to let her off leash once we got out past all the people. She had a blast, she was chasing rabbits, diving into the bushes and just loved it. When we got home I discovered her underbelly was covered in Cactus thorns. I had to hold her down while my wife plucked about 100 Thorns out of her. I felt like an idiot. My poor dog had to suffer because I made an unwise decision.

    Other things that are a major danger for dogs in my riding area are Rattle Snakes, Black Widows and Coyotes.


    A few years later my wife is walking both of our Pit Bulls on leash in the same trail system. A man with his family and 2 dogs off leash, a small one and a very large American Bull Dog, both off-leash approached from the opposite direction. My wife tried to pull the dogs as far off the trail as possible, but hte American Bull Dog charged her, possibly friendly, possibly not... who know. Both my dogs tried to protect my wife but she could only keep one back while the other got in a fight at her feet with the bull dog. The owner of the bull dog had to wrestle the 2 dogs apart and then had the gall to yell at my wife for the altercation...... You might think you know your dog, but the average owner has no control over the animal if they decide to bolt, chase a rabbit or attack another dog. Sometimes Dogs just don't like the smell of other dogs....

    I don't know about this particular location in the story, but after my experiences I will never have a dog off leash in a public space no matter how well behaved I think my dog is. Dogs are still unpredictable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    most jurisdictions have fretted over the 'dog issue ' for centuries.

    the current laws exist for a reason,
    they were carefully thought out over many many years of
    loose dogs causing some sort of mayhem and what can we
    do to protect innocent bystanders....

    you out in public with doggo ?
    -voice control-
    -leash-

    that's it. simple, effective. carefully thought about before being made law.

    you want to be a scofflaw (and they are numerous and endless as we all know)
    then you are open to a tort case (civil legal liability) should anything happen
    to anyone else as a result of encountering your loose doggo.

    but that doesn't mean you can shoot the damn mutt. dogs aren't in season anywhere around the US. maybe if your life was threatened though and owner nowhere in sight.

    having said all that I have been cornered in the woods once by 5 loose dogs of all mutt-races ganging up on me and surrounding me barking and snarling...exactly what roving pack of strays would look like and act like....I was beyond terrified, my legs elvising.. and got my 14 inch silky saw out and was ready to start slashing...then owner comes along minutes later acting like I am the problem, no big deal. I wanted to punch that puke in the throat.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    After reading a thread on here about a dog poisoned by coyote poison on private property near a public trail, I'm a lot more cognizant of the fact that when you let your dog off leash you accept that you are giving up control and risking a poor outcome. Doesn't make this right, but it's something all dog owners should consider.
    Agreed on both posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    Guy I know brought his (usually really well behaved) dog on a ride. We rode past a field with cows grazing between the trailhead and trails, and his dog jumps the fence and bee lines for the cows and started chasing them all over creation. Farmer would have been within his rights to shoot the dog had he seen it.
    This is true for sooooo many dogs. People "think" their dog is well behaved and listens to voice commands and "would never do that", until they are presented with an animal and a smell they have never experienced before and suddenly they change behaviour. Then the owner says "my dog has never done that before, I don't know what got into them".

    Neither of my dogs has ever met a cow before. I am certain at least one of them would try the same thing and chase the cows until they got shot or the cow kicked them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Nice ‘blaming the victim’. No one said it was the dog’s fault...that blame lies squarely on the a$$hole that shot him.
    WRONG.

    The blame lies primarily on the owner who let them off leash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    Yeah, I could not care less about sport hunters.
    1.) No one knows if a hunter shot the dog.
    2.) In Wisconsin roughly 600,000 deer are taken in the yearly hunt. Without hunting the population would quickly be subject to starvation and become more of a public hazard as vehicle collisions would increase.
    3.) Many people are fed by hunters. The meat is "organic", lean, and hormone free.

    As one that engages in both activities, I can see the ecological benefits of hunting, not so much for mountain biking. Looking at it objectively, mountain biking is basically for the self gratification of the rider while often damaging the trails (over use, riding in muddy conditions and etc). Still, I care about people that do both activities responsibly.

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    I love dogs. Where I trail run, people are always letting their dogs off leash, despite it being a NPS park. I've had plenty of dogs run up and jump on me. I remember once getting back to my car and driving to work with the strong smell of wet dog after a golden retriever greeted me after wading in the pond. I wasn't too happy about that but not that big of a deal for me.

    My wife grew up in communist China. The only dogs she was exposed to growing up were military dogs trained to keep you in line. She is very afraid of dogs. She has gotten better about it, but off leash dogs (or dogs on long leashes; I've had them wrap me up when running) are still an issue for her and always will be. It doesn't help that she got bit by a neighbor's dog when it bolted outside while she was walking around the neighborhood this summer. Things have changed in China, her sister had two dogs until recently when one (or maybe both) passed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    So you guys found found a public park with 24 hour legal access?
    Funny, most close at sunset.
    Side note: We've got legal night riding in parks all around our region via signed use agreements. We have rides available almost every night of the week. This includes state, city, county and regional parks. Maybe not the OP, but I'm sure we're not the only club doing this.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderx View Post
    Side note: We've got legal night riding in parks all around our region via signed use agreements. We have rides available almost every night of the week. This includes state, city, county and regional parks. Maybe not the OP, but I'm sure we're not the only club doing this.
    While his post sounded general in nature, I think he was talking specifically of Florida.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I know the dog, he is friendly. But strangers don't know that.
    This. 1000x this. I don't know your dog (not you, Forest Rider, specifically..."you" in general). I don't know if it's friendly or not. I don't know if it perceives me as a threat to you. I love dogs, but I have no *&$% clue what your dog's intentions are when it's running at me.

    Not long ago I rounded a corner on a trail to see a dog standing in the trail, no owner in sight. Then it launched and came running at me full tilt. I was one second away from planting my foot in this dog's jaw when I realized it wasn't being aggressive. A sweet dog, actually. But I had to make that judgement quickly, and it could easily have gone the other way. Owner comes up nonchalantly talking on his phone. I suggested he keep his dog on a leash lest someone mistakes the dog's intentions and hurts him. He, of course, got all indignant and pissed off that I suggest he put his dog on a leash. By the way, this was in a wilderness park where not only are off-leash dogs not allowed, dogs aren't allowed, period.

    The fact that a dog is somebody's "buddy" doesn't mean he's mine. If you're worried about your dog getting hurt, keep it on a leash.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderx View Post
    Side note: We've got legal night riding in parks all around our region via signed use agreements. We have rides available almost every night of the week. This includes state, city, county and regional parks. Maybe not the OP, but I'm sure we're not the only club doing this.
    Yup, we've got some places where it's specifically allowed, and some places where it's more of a 'wink and a nod' thing. After a quick look at state parks in the OPs area, looks like all of them are officially closed at sunset.

    Also, in MA, we've got quite a few entire state parks that allow you to bring your dogs off leash on the trails. I can guarantee that overwhelming majority of people are unaware of this and think that leash laws apply everywhere; I don't know if this is the case in other states, but it's pretty cool IMO.

    https://www.mass.gov/guides/dogs-in-...ff-leash-areas

    FWIW, if you don't like off-leash dogs, in my experience, this would not be a good area for you to be a mountain biker. Note that many of the most popular MTB parks in the state also allow off-leash dogs. Somehow we manage without people pulling guns or having their throats ripped out on a daily basis. Pretty amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    This is correct. Leash laws are in place for a number of reasons:

    All true, but it still doesn't make the guy who shot it any less of an @sshole. imo.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    This is true for sooooo many dogs. People "think" their dog is well behaved and listens to voice commands and "would never do that", until they are presented with an animal and a smell they have never experienced before and suddenly they change behaviour. Then the owner says "my dog has never done that before, I don't know what got into them".
    "he doesn't bite"

    --the biker whose unleashed dog bit me 5 seconds later, tearing my hiking pants and drawing blood

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    I'm a little late to the party but thought I might chime in. I live on the Oyster River about 50 feet from where the dog was found. I spent a few days out looking for it. The Ridge trail is right beside a lot of private property where people farm goats, sheep, chickens, etc. It's a 15 minute walk from a residential neighbourhood. A loose dog wouldn't last long on any of those properties. That's life in a rural area. I've seen the damage a dog "who wouldn't hurt a fly" can do to a full grown horse. Yes, that dog was shot when it came back the next day. Why this particular dog was shot is pure speculation but there aren't many dogs who wouldn't go after a chicken especially if it had been lost for a few days. I highly doubt if anyone around here is maliciously hunting dogs. There would be a lot more dead dogs if that were so because nobody leashes their pets when the walk or bike the trails in this semi-remote area of Vancouver Island. As for how the dog got in the river, the water levels in the Oyster rise and fall up to 4 feet in one day with the rains we get this time of year. That dog could have died 50 feet from the water and been washed away the next day.
    Mountain Biker's dog shot while out on the trails-20181024_123342_hdr.jpgMountain Biker's dog shot while out on the trails-20181127_094258_hdr.jpg
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    I notice that the OP says there are no houses beyond the trails. I can only suggest he take a drive up York Rd, and have a look at all the properties on the left side of the road. There are farms and estates all the way up to the Inland Island Highway. They all border on that trail system, a thin strip of land between those properties and the river. It helps to know the lay of the land you are riding in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja's Son
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  94. #94
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    Nice to hear from you Trail Ninja. It’s been a long time, hope all is well.
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobi View Post
    "he doesn't bite"

    --the biker whose unleashed dog bit me 5 seconds later, tearing my hiking pants and drawing blood
    I've witnessed this twice. A buddy of mine is really not a fan of dogs, and they sense the that. Both times, I'm in the lead as we approach the dog and owner, and the owner says "he's friendly" or "he doesn't bite." Dog runs right past me and bites my friend's leg.

    Depending on how the dog is behaving as it approaches, I'll give the dog a friendly hello or even a quick pet (rarely as we have a lot of poison oak that fido's run through), or I take on the "You really don't want to F--- with me, I'm the alpha here" stance. Either way, I rarely have issues with dogs, but man, my friend just isn't comfortable around dogs, and he's just a dog magnet whether the dog is aggressive or they just want to jump up and say hello.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I've witnessed this twice. A buddy of mine is really not a fan of dogs, and they sense the that. Both times, I'm in the lead as we approach the dog and owner, and the owner says "he's friendly" or "he doesn't bite." Dog runs right past me and bites my friend's leg.

    Depending on how the dog is behaving as it approaches, I'll give the dog a friendly hello or even a quick pet (rarely as we have a lot of poison oak that fido's run through), or I take on the "You really don't want to F--- with me, I'm the alpha here" stance. Either way, I rarely have issues with dogs, but man, my friend just isn't comfortable around dogs, and he's just a dog magnet whether the dog is aggressive or they just want to jump up and say hello.
    Yep, if you show no fear and greet the dog in a soothing gentle voice they react back in a friendly manner. Show fear and they sense it and some react to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Nice to hear from you Trail Ninja. It’s been a long time, hope all is well.
    Thanks DJ. I'm not dead yet. Still cancer free... coming up to 7 years. I'm kind of off the grid so I don't get on the internet much but I'm still out there digging & riding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja's Son
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yep, if you show no fear and greet the dog in a soothing gentle voice they react back in a friendly manner. Show fear and they sense it and some react to it.
    No. They are animals and not predictable. It may happen. It may not. I was over at a friends house for an xmass party last weekend and their dogs were going absolutely nuts over my crutches, in a bad way. There are too many variables to make general comments that "they react back friendly".
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    No. They are animals and not predictable. It may happen. It may not. I was over at a friends house for an xmass party last weekend and their dogs were going absolutely nuts over my crutches, in a bad way. There are too many variables to make general comments that "they react back friendly".
    Would it have helped if I added the word “usually” in there?

    I’m 57 and have loved all dogs all my life. I encounter several random dogs a day in my work off of their territory. I’ve always went up to all large or small of all breeds. All the so called mean breeds. I walk right up to them in a soothing voice say “hey buddy”, put my hand down and let them smell it then pet them. Every breed and I’ve never had an issue. I show no fear. They detect fear and some react to it, plain and simple.

    Hell, I taught the Dog Whisperer everything he knows.

    Of course once in awhile [not very often] I detect one that’s non approachable. Those I avoid and walk on.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    I like dogs and think it's sad that a dog was shot. But I generally don't like dog owners who are willing to unleash their dogs in public places where the dog will encounter other users. They seem incapable of grasping that other people might have different preferences than they do about the joys of interacting with their dog.

    Like it has been pointed out several times, not everyone likes dogs or trust that your dog is friendly. Not only that, I have scooped up my share of dogshit off of trails because the owners don't clean up after their dogs. So when you unleash it on other people, it's not much different from those people who bring infants who cry to a movie theatre. Both disrupt the experiences of other users. Why can't people just be considerate and see beyond themselves?

    That said, I know lots of considerate dog owners. You can usually identify them by the fact that they use a leash.

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