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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Funny how people went into the weeds with ridiculous crap once it was point out feral dogs are an issue.

    Speaking of going into the weeds, the dog in question wasn't feral. It was desctibed as being friendly and I'm guessing it had a collar on.

    More weeds. 30x more people die from accidental self inflicted gun wounds than dog bites.
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  2. #202
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    ITMFA

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I truly didn't realize that most of the rest of the country outside New England is practically overrun with packs of wild dogs attacking people by the millions. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard this is a such a huge issue for the rest of you guys.
    My condolences.
    In the West, depending on the size of the dog, one has to worry about coyotes, mountain lions, eagles, bobcats, wolves and even javalinas killing dogs.

    Where I grew up in Pennsylvania, hunters and farmers complained about wild dogs. Now that coyotes are like cockroaches across the country I wonder what impact they had on the wild dog population, urban and rural.


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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Speaking of going into the weeds, the dog in question wasn't feral. It was desctibed as being friendly and I'm guessing it had a collar on.

    More weeds. 30x more people die from accidental self inflicted gun wounds than dog bites.
    Yea I've had those 'friendly' dogs growl and threaten my kids. Like I said much earlier had I been carrying they'd both be dead friendly dogs.
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Livestock kills more people than dogs or any wild animals.

    Watch out for cows!!
    I seek my revenge by making sure those bastards are killed, ground up, put over an open flame and then consumed.

  6. #206
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    Mountain Biker's dog shot while out on the trails

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Yea I've had those 'friendly' dogs growl and threaten my kids. Like I said much earlier had I been carrying they'd both be dead friendly dogs.
    In another thread I was held to task for having my dog off the leash. When my daughter and I have our dog off leash we assume all responsibility for the dog. That includes encounters with LEOs, property owners, other dangerous animals, ingestion of poisonous substances, and other users of natural resources who may rightly or wrongly inflict lethal harm to her. At the end of the day, even if TwoTone was too quick to pull the trigger, Iím am the one more likely to be under legal scrutiny. And righteous deserved animosity isnít going to bring my dog back or tug on the heart strings of a judge.


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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Speaking of going into the weeds, the dog in question wasn't feral. It was desctibed as being friendly and I'm guessing it had a collar on.

    More weeds. 30x more people die from accidental self inflicted gun wounds than dog bites.
    If a dog is threatening person or property a collar is irrelevant.

    Roughly the same number of defensive gun deaths occur as accidental deaths per year. 2 million times a year a citizen uses a gun defensively where the vast majority of time no shot is fired.

    A gun is but a tool that needs to be respected.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I seek my revenge by making sure those bastards are killed, ground up, put over an open flame and then consumed.
    Solid defense yo!
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  9. #209
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    And another asshole strikes out for no reason. A Golden Retriever, really? The most gentle breed of all.

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teen...175656372.html
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And another asshole strikes out for no reason. A Golden Retriever, really? The most gentle breed of all.

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teen...175656372.html


    Well it wasn't on a leash, it might have potentially frightened a deer....

    Yeah that's pretty horrible.
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  11. #211
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    A dog came after me on my bike ride today, only 40 or 50 pounds but he looked particularly mean and seemed intent to take a chunk out of my calf. I was climbing a hill so no chance to out sprint him and a stern "go home!" had no effect. So I grab my water bottle, gave him a squirt in the face and then watched him run home with his tail between his legs like a scared puppy.

    Works every time and no one has ever accidentally drowned themselves while handling a water bottle
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And another asshole strikes out for no reason. A Golden Retriever, really? The most gentle breed of all.

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teen...175656372.html
    Interesting how you assume both cases are the same.
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Interesting how you assume both cases are the same.
    I assumed nothing on them as being the same nor did I say they were. Another dog shot is all, maybe not the same scenario but the same outcome. So yeah pretty similar but not the same and worthy of dropping it in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I assumed nothing on them as being the same nor did I say they were. Another dog shot is all, maybe not the same scenario but the same outcome. So yeah pretty similar but not the same and worthy of dropping it in this thread.
    "Another Asshole strikes out for no reason" Pretty much says you are assuming the first case was an asshole killing a dog for no reason.
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I assumed nothing on them as being the same nor did I say they were. Another dog shot is all, maybe not the same scenario but the same outcome. So yeah pretty similar but not the same and worthy of dropping it in this thread.
    You assume a lot since you called the shooter an asshole and assumed the dog did nothing wrong. Obviously your bias it towards "dogs can do no wrong" But in both cases we have no info on what the dog was doing when it got shot.

  16. #216
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    ^^^ Exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And another asshole strikes out for no reason. A Golden Retriever, really? The most gentle breed of all.

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teen...175656372.html
    That really sucks. I hope they can get to the bottom of who shot it and why.

  17. #217
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    It was obviously coming right for them.

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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    You assume a lot since you called the shooter an asshole and assumed the dog did nothing wrong. Obviously your bias it towards "dogs can do no wrong" But in both cases we have no info on what the dog was doing when it got shot.


    It was a trained service dog, on the owners property. What seems most likely? Who is bias?
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  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    It was a trained service dog, on the owners property. What seems most likely? Who is bias?
    They let the dog out to swim in their pond, but didn't go outside with it. They don't say where the dog was shot or where it was found. We don't have enough info to determine what happened. If we did, they the article would have stated that. I'm not taking either side as I don't know the facts.

    What seems more likely is just a guess on anyone's part. But since you like to speculate,
    here is my guess.

    My guess would be the family shot the dog themselves to make more money. A family that asked the community to provide them with a dog at a cost of 10K saw an easy way to tug at the heart strings of the community with a sad story of the dog being killed, now they have $26K.

  20. #220
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    Just to recap for the TLDNR crowd..... people suck....

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    Just to recap for the TLDNR crowd..... people suck....
    Yup, and we've got some prime examples here ourselves it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    My guess would be the family shot the dog themselves to make more money. A family that asked the community to provide them with a dog at a cost of 10K saw an easy way to tug at the heart strings of the community with a sad story of the dog being killed, now they have $26K.
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  22. #222
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    This thread is depressing, I'm losing more faith in humanity than I had previously thought possible.
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  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yup, and we've got some prime examples here ourselves it seems.
    Really, I suck because I think there is a possibility that people would hurt their dog for money? Not the people that could do that, not the person that shot the dog, but me.

  24. #224
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    ^^Yep! And no end in sight!
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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Really, I suck because I think there is a possibility that people would hurt their dog for money? Not the people that could do that, not the person that shot the dog, but me.
    You didn't say it was a 'possibility', you said that's what you assume happened.
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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    You didn't say it was a 'possibility', you said that's what you assume happened.
    Actually I didn't write "assume" at all. I said "Guess" Wrote it twice and even added that it was speculation. To bad you couldn't be bothered to read what was actually written and not let your need to insult people cloud your ability to read.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Actually I didn't write "assume" at all. I said "Guess" Wrote it twice and even added that it was speculation. To bad you couldn't be bothered to read what was actually written and not let your need to insult people cloud your ability to read.
    "My guess would be" means the exact same thing as "I assume".

    Duh.
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  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    "My guess would be" means the exact same thing as "I assume".

    Duh.
    For ****s sake, learn the language
    https://wikidiff.com/guess/assume

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    "My guess would be" means the exact same thing as "I assume".

    Duh.
    Actually it does not. "My guess WOULD be" is hypothetical. In that case he has not even actually made a guess. "I assume" is a statement that a conclusion has been reached.

    Beyond that, guess and assume are not exactly synonymous.https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...-an-assumption

    Boy, to belittle someone and be wrong in your belittlement really sucks.

  30. #230
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    I was thinking this thread needed this:



    but then I realized some people here are adapt at jumping to conclusions without the aid of a mat.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    For ****s sake, learn the language
    https://wikidiff.com/guess/assume
    Wikidiff, that's cute. I'm an Oxford English guy myself.

    To avoid wasting time picking stupid semantic nits, I'll just say your guess is just as crappy as it would be if it were your assumption.
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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    You assume a lot since you called the shooter an asshole and assumed the dog did nothing wrong. Obviously your bias it towards "dogs can do no wrong" But in both cases we have no info on what the dog was doing when it got shot.

    Hmmm. . . I need to look inward and see my wrong. Not sure about either case because the facts have yet to come out. So that makes me the asshole for making an assumption for which I didnít realize I made. See what looking inward can do?
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  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I'm an Oxford English guy myself.
    .
    Lol Oh you're an Oxford English man....I had no idea we were in the midst of online dictionary royalty. How proud your parents must be.

  34. #234
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    But a Golden Retriever, really? I guess a gun could defend against being licked to death.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Lol Oh you're an Oxford English man....I had no idea we were in the midst of online dictionary royalty. How proud your parents must be.
    Hardcopy yo.
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  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    But a Golden Retriever, really? I guess a gun could defend against being licked to death.
    Nah, definitely an inside job for profit.
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  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    I was thinking this thread needed this:



    but then I realized some people here are adapt at jumping to conclusions without the aid of a mat.
    "Loose one turn"? I'm jumping to the conclusion that whoever made that image is not a great speller.
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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    "Loose one turn"? I'm jumping to the conclusion that whoever made that image is not a great speller.
    Probably some loose nut just rambling on.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And another asshole strikes out for no reason. A Golden Retriever, really? The most gentle breed of all.
    I'm not trying to defend this dog killer at all but this notion that a placid dog is not capable of aggression is nieve. I had a Golden Retriever years ago. I never once saw it show any aggression towards a human being, I don't recall ever hearing that dog growl, but if another dog barked or growled at him he would attack it. I mean really go for it, ripping lumps of fur out. I knew another Labrador that was the most docile animal you've ever met but show it a rabbit! If it caught one it would rip it to bits.

    Dogs are dogs. Here in the UK we regularly suffer sad stories of young children being killed by the family dog 'who was gentle as a lamb'. If you think an entire breed of dog is incapable of being aggressive you're living in fantasy land.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    "Loose one turn"? I'm jumping to the conclusion that whoever made that image is not a great speller.
    Or it's a euphemism for something kinda gross.
    ITMFA

  41. #241
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    This thread needs a poll.
    How many commenters just watched Cujo?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Yea I've had those 'friendly' dogs growl and threaten my kids. Like I said much earlier had I been carrying they'd both be dead friendly dogs.
    If my dog growled at your kid and you shot it, you would be a severely beaten jackass


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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    If my dog growled at your kid and you shot it, you would be a severely beaten jackass
    Yeah, sure you would tough guy. You are going to try to beat up a guy with a gun.....I'm sure that would work out just great for you

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Where I grew up in Pennsylvania, hunters and farmers complained about wild dogs. Now that coyotes are like cockroaches across the country I wonder what impact they had on the wild dog population, urban and rural.


    No, eastern transplants are the cockroaches of the west. Go home.
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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Yeah, sure you would tough guy. You are going to try to beat up a guy with a gun.....I'm sure that would work out just great for you


    I'm no tough guy and I'm not sure anyone could predict exactly what they would do until they were in that situation but I know this, I love my dog and if someone shot her because she growled they best be prepared to rumble.
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  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I'm no tough guy and I'm not sure anyone could predict exactly what they would do until they were in that situation but I know this, I love my dog and if someone shot her because she growled they best be prepared to rumble.

    Someone just shot your dog because it was acting aggressively towards them, you think they are going to put down their gun when you want to "rumble"?

    You are willing to risk your life or felony assault over your dog? More violence is going to help the problem?

  47. #247
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    One of the interesting things about this thread is that you can tell people who really just don't understand dogs. If you think that growling = angry, potentially violent dog, you really don't know a damn thing about them.

    I'll use my dog as an example. He's a year old herding dog (Australian Kelpie mix). The only time he ever growls at any person or dog is when he's trying to get them to PLAY with him. If you shot my dog when he was holding a stick, wagging his tail and growling at you to play tug of war or throw it for him, you would be a seriously imbalanced person.
    Death from Below.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Someone just shot your dog because it was acting aggressively towards them, you think they are going to put down their gun when you want to "rumble"?

    You are willing to risk your life or felony assault over your dog? More violence is going to help the problem?

    Would you shoot a human just because they gave you the stink eye? Growling doesn't mean attacking, or even necessarily aggression.

    Yes, I might act irrationally if someone murdered my dog right in front of me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One of the interesting things about this thread is that you can tell people who really just don't understand dogs. If you think that growling = angry, potentially violent dog, you really don't know a damn thing about them.

    Exactly.
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  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One of the interesting things about this thread is that you can tell people who really just don't understand dogs. If you think that growling = angry, potentially violent dog, you really don't know a damn thing about them.

    I'll use my dog as an example. He's a year old herding dog (Australian Kelpie mix). The only time he ever growls at any person or dog is when he's trying to get them to PLAY with him. If you shot my dog when he was holding a stick, wagging his tail and growling at you to play tug of war or throw it for him, you would be a seriously imbalanced person.
    And a growling dog certainly can be angry and aggressive.

    No one has been talking about shooting a dog that is holding a stick, wagging its tail. Stop with the straw man arguments

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    And a growling dog certainly can be angry and aggressive.

    No one has been talking about shooting a dog that is holding a stick, wagging its tail. Stop with the straw man arguments
    So, in your mind, a growling dog is deserving of a death sentence?


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  51. #251
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    Itís a sad state of affairs when dogs become so vilified, misunderstood, and feared. What a pitiful lot of people.


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  52. #252
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    There are some serious pussies out there in MTB land these days it seems.
    I used to stick up for people who decide to carry while on their bikes, but after listening to some of you, I'm beginning to change my mind.
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  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    So, in your mind, a growling dog is deserving of a death sentence?


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    Where did I say that? An aggressive dog that threatens me or my family needs to be stopped.

    Do you feel any responsibility in stopping your dog that is acting aggressively? Or are you the kind of person that just says "don't worry, he won't bite" and does nothing to restrain your dog.

    If you take responsibility and actually control your animal, then none of this is an issue.

    Apparently that is too much to ask.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    And a growling dog certainly can be angry and aggressive.

    No one has been talking about shooting a dog that is holding a stick, wagging its tail. Stop with the straw man arguments
    But the same dog that is wagging its tail is also growling at you. In your mind, the latter behavior is can be a sign of aggression, as you very clearly just said. Describing the multi-faceted behaviors of a dog is not a straw man. Some people here interpret growling as aggressive behavior, when it is not so clear cut at all.

    This same dog also raises the hair on the back of his neck as he stallks up to and "eyes" (see: border collie) my 3 year old nephew. Who he then trots along next to, "chasing" him, when my nephew tells him to do so.
    Death from Below.

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Where did I say that? An aggressive dog that threatens me or my family needs to be stopped.

    Do you feel any responsibility in stopping your dog that is acting aggressively? Or are you the kind of person that just says "don't worry, he won't bite" and does nothing to restrain your dog.

    If you take responsibility and actually control your animal, then none of this is an issue.

    Apparently that is too much to ask.
    I won't answer for others, but:

    Yes, I am responsible for my dog, and as such, I train my dog. My dog is very rarely on leash when I take him walking, and I will regularly have him sit off the trail and he will not interact with dogs or humans that come within a handful of feet of him unless I give him permission. He's had his tail stepped on by multiple dogs and humans, and will yelp in the latter case, but will otherwise not react.

    I carry a leash, and he wears a shock collar. But, the shock collar generally only gets used when it is windy, in the vibrate setting, to initiate recall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    But a Golden Retriever, really? I guess a gun could defend against being licked to death.
    No one knows if the dog was being aggressive. No one knows if the dog was intentionally shot. Any number of things could have happened.

    Frankly the scenario would be little changed if the dog had been hit by a car. In that case it could have been an accident, the driver could have been negligent (texting or intoxicated) or it could have been a psycho driver that aimed for the dog.

    Which scenario one gravitates toward as likely depends upon ones prejudice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Frankly the scenario would be little changed if the dog had been hit by a car. .
    Sure, if your house happens to be located midrange at a gun club.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Which scenario one gravitates toward as likely depends upon ones prejudice.

    No, one can also use logic and common sense. You're right, we don't actually know whether or not the dog was being aggressive but a service dog has to complete a lot of training and pass a lot of tests before they graduate, especially one that's going to be around children. Does it seem likely that this particular dog would be aggressive? Aggressive enough to justify being shot?

    I suppose it's possible but it seems like an extreme long shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I won't answer for others, but:

    Yes, I am responsible for my dog, and as such, I train my dog. My dog is very rarely on leash when I take him walking, and I will regularly have him sit off the trail and he will not interact with dogs or humans that come within a handful of feet of him unless I give him permission. He's had his tail stepped on by multiple dogs and humans, and will yelp in the latter case, but will otherwise not react.

    I carry a leash, and he wears a shock collar. But, the shock collar generally only gets used when it is windy, in the vibrate setting, to initiate recall.
    That great, you are a responsible dog owner and you keep your dog under your control. And I expect by this answer that you would not allow your dog to do this to my son "This same dog also raises the hair on the back of his neck as he stallks up to and "eyes" (see: border collie) my 3 year old nephew

    But apparently people here think not only is it ok for their dog to be aggressive towards others, then then it is ok to threaten violence against the person that needed to take responsibility to stop their dogs aggressive behavior

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    That great, you are a responsible dog owner and you keep your dog under your control. And I expect by this answer that you would not allow your dog to do this to my son "This same dog also raises the hair on the back of his neck as he stallks up to and "eyes" (see: border collie) my 3 year old nephew

    But apparently people here think not only is it ok for their dog to be aggressive towards others, then then it is ok to threaten violence against the person that needed to take responsibility to stop their dogs aggressive behavior
    No, we don't let him interact with children unless the parent asks us if the child can pet him. He is also smart enough to know that he needs to modify his behavior to account for differences in size between, for example, my 3yr old nephew and his full grown adult owners. He weighs more than my nephew and could easily overpower him, but doesn't.

    But, "eyeing", as strong-eyed herding dogs use it, is not an aggressive behavior. It doesn't precede violence, as the entire point of a well trained herding dog is to keep sheep or cattle healthy and moving. It frightens sheep enough to get them to move, but no reasonable adult human should be intimidated by it. Because he has no sheep to herd, my dog does this as part of initiating play with every dog he sees at the dog park, often times herding them, if I let him. He also does it to me when I come home from work every day, crouching at the top of the stairs when I come in from the garage. He won't move until I tell him to come to me, and then we play for a while.
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  61. #261
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    let me show you my many scars from dogs chewing on me

    ....nice dogs,

    that would never harm anyone. yeah, those dogs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post

    But apparently people here think not only is it ok for their dog to be aggressive towards others, then then it is ok to threaten violence against the person that needed to take responsibility to stop their dogs aggressive behavior
    No, but I'd say most people think if your opening move when a dog raises it's hair or barks at you is to start shooting, you're a loose cannon with no business carrying a firearm in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    No, but I'd say most people think if your opening move when a dog raises it's hair or barks at you is to start shooting, you're a loose cannon with no business carrying a firearm in the first place.
    True, I always ask the person to control their dog first. When they refuse or put no effort into controlling their dog, then I believe they have abdicated their responsibility to me. Each situation will be dealt with as I warrant to be appropriate and effective. If yelling at the dog stops it, great. If not, then I'll take another step and I will continue to do so until the dog stops or the owner controls their dog.

    This is not a situation I want to be in, I don't want to have to get between my son and a dog that is aggressive, but the situation is not one I caused. It is the dog owners fault.

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One of the interesting things about this thread is that you can tell people who really just don't understand dogs. If you think that growling = angry, potentially violent dog, you really don't know a damn thing about them.
    So everyone is supposed to be able to speak "dog"? If an animal is acting aggressively, barking, growling, trying to get at people or running at them while doing those things, it's acting aggressively. It'd be great if animals were as predictable as some people are making them out to be, but animals get set off by things we don't always completely understand, and when they are not on leashes, we may not be able to control their actions.

    Honestly, I use the exact same criteria for most animals I meet, dogs, bears, moose, etc. If the animal is coming at me, barring it's teeth, ears back, raising it's neck hair, barking, growling, it's not to say hello. Even the dogs that do come up to say "hello" have been known to do things like give little bites/nips when they are so excited. I don't know if your animal has rabies or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Where did I say that? An aggressive dog that threatens me or my family needs to be stopped.

    Do you feel any responsibility in stopping your dog that is acting aggressively? Or are you the kind of person that just says "don't worry, he won't bite" and does nothing to restrain your dog.

    If you take responsibility and actually control your animal, then none of this is an issue.

    Apparently that is too much to ask.
    I take all of the responsibility of my dogs behavior. All of it. My dog has no interest in you, or your children. If she did approach, I would correct. She is trained, even tempered, well socialized, and smart. Itís not too much to ask, and is the responsibility of every dog owner to do the same, and I realize that thatís not always the case, but to shoot a dog thatís done nothing but display a behavior that you interpret as threatening is asinine. So, howís does the scenario actually look? A dog growls at your kid, or barks at him/her, and you feel your kids are in danger. Do you put the kids in the car, and then return to shoot the dog? Or do you fire your weapon at the dog with the kids right there, and hope for the best? Or something different?


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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I take all of the responsibility of my dogs behavior. All of it. My dog has no interest in you, or your children. If she did approach, I would correct. She is trained, even tempered, well socialized, and smart. Itís not too much to ask, and is the responsibility of every dog owner to do the same, and I realize that thatís not always the case, but to shoot a dog thatís done nothing but display a behavior that you interpret as threatening is asinine. So, howís does the scenario actually look? A dog growls at your kid, or barks at him/her, and you feel your kids are in danger. Do you put the kids in the car, and then return to shoot the dog? Or do you fire your weapon at the dog with the kids right there, and hope for the best? Or something different?


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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    If you think that growling = angry, potentially violent dog, you really don't know a damn thing about them.
    I love dogs, I don't want anyone to think I'm in the anti-dog camp here, but there is a lot of 'missing of the point' in this thread. The dog owner is responsible, not only for ensuring his or her dog does not present a danger to other people but that other people know it.

    Yes, dogs can be well trained and behave in a controlled manner, even under extreme provocation, but big deal. The person you meet who has never seen your dog before in his life has no way of knowing whether or not your dog is a danger. More to the point, there is no onus on him to make such an assessment. He is unlikely to be qualified to do so.

    Dog behavior is complex. Many owners aren't great at predicting it and even well trained and obedient dogs can act out of character if the right buttons are pressed or can suffer behavior changes as they age or if they're unwell. I've known plenty of dogs that were destroyed or given away for use as guard dogs after they bit or 'went for' someone following many years of good behavior. Even highly responsible owners can be surprised and caught out by their well trained dogs. I've seen it many times.

    And if good owners can fail to predict their dog's behavior at times, what chance does a stranger have? If someone encounters a large dog off the leash how are they supposed to know whether or not the dog is a danger? And why should they have to? They didn't ask to encounter your unleashed dog, or any dog. It's not their job to learn the body language of every dog on earth. It's the dog owners responsibility to ensure that other people know his dog does not represent a danger. Not leave others feeling worried and uncomfortable while he enjoys the freedom and false security his dog training provides.

    If a dog is off the leash and a situation arises where someone feels threatened by it, whether they are right to be or not, it's the dog owner who is at fault and they cannot complain if the person chooses to take action to ensure their own safety.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I take all of the responsibility of my dogs behavior. All of it. My dog has no interest in you, or your children. If she did approach, I would correct. She is trained, even tempered, well socialized, and smart. Itís not too much to ask, and is the responsibility of every dog owner to do the same, and I realize that thatís not always the case, but to shoot a dog thatís done nothing but display a behavior that you interpret as threatening is asinine. So, howís does the scenario actually look? A dog growls at your kid, or barks at him/her, and you feel your kids are in danger. Do you put the kids in the car, and then return to shoot the dog? Or do you fire your weapon at the dog with the kids right there, and hope for the best? Or something different?


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    Who the hell is talking about getting safely out of the situation and then coming back to shoot the dog?
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  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    So, howís does the scenario actually look? A dog growls at your kid, or barks at him/her, and you feel your kids are in danger. Do you put the kids in the car, and then return to shoot the dog? Or do you fire your weapon at the dog with the kids right there, and hope for the best? Or something different?
    Well, if I can get my kid and myself to my car, then there is no longer a threat, so I drive away. If I can't get away and the owner is doing nothing to stop his dog, then I do what I feel is necessary. If I have to shoot a dog to protect my child from getting bit, then so be it, I much rather him deal with the pain of a loud noise than a dog bite.

    The last time I had to deal with an aggressive dog, my kid was in a weehoo trailer. I couldn't get him out in time and I had to hold the trailer up while try to get in between the dog and my kid. I yelled for the owner to control his dog, he slowly rode he bike in my direct saying "don't worry he won't bite". I yelled at the dog that kept circling and barking trying to get around me. The owner still did nothing. I got aggressive with the dog and it finally backed away, the owner then blamed me because his dog hadn't see a kid in a trailer before


    I didn't ask for his dog to come up to my kid, I don't know him or his dog. I don't know if its a sweet dog or a mean dog, I do know the dog is no longer under control of its owner and acting aggressively. I not interpreting the dog as threatening, the dog was actually threatening me and my child. It wasn't going to get past me, end of story

    I am not going to wait, to see what happens when it comes to the safety of my child. Dog owners are required to control their dog and I prefer that they do, so I don't. The responsibility is on the dog owner, not me. My responsibility is to keep my kid safe

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Well, if I can get my kid and myself to my car, then there is no longer a threat, so I drive away. If I can't get away and the owner is doing nothing to stop his dog, then I do what I feel is necessary. If I have to shoot a dog to protect my child from getting bit, then so be it, I much rather him deal with the pain of a loud noise than a dog bite.

    The last time I had to deal with an aggressive dog, my kid was in a weehoo trailer. I couldn't get him out in time and I had to hold the trailer up while try to get in between the dog and my kid. I yelled for the owner to control his dog, he slowly rode he bike in my direct saying "don't worry he won't bite". I yelled at the dog that kept circling and barking trying to get around me. The owner still did nothing. I got aggressive with the dog and it finally backed away, the owner then blamed me because his dog hadn't see a kid in a trailer before


    I didn't ask for his dog to come up to my kid, I don't know him or his dog. I don't know if its a sweet dog or a mean dog, I do know the dog is no longer under control of its owner and acting aggressively. I not interpreting the dog as threatening, the dog was actually threatening me and my child. It wasn't going to get past me, end of story

    I am not going to wait, to see what happens when it comes to the safety of my child. Dog owners are required to control their dog and I prefer that they do, so I don't. The responsibility is on the dog owner, not me. My responsibility is to keep my kid safe
    I understand all that. I too am I father, and protecting my son is always first. Iím just curious as to how you fire at the dog, and NOT endanger your kid? The owner of that dog is a douchebag, and should be dealt with.

    Iíve been bitten by dogs. My dog was attacked by another dog when she was a puppy. A fairly viscous dog, that I kicked the shit out of, which of course angered the douchebag owner. His response was that his dog had never done anything like that, which is bullshit. Dogs like that exhibit aggressive behavior before an attack. He either didnít recognize it, because heís and idiot, or heís just not paying attention.




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  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Who the hell is talking about getting safely out of the situation and then coming back to shoot the dog?
    The little curly like thing with a period beneath it is a question mark, indicating that the words formed a question.


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  73. #273
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    I agree with Mr.Pig and Bacon Fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So everyone is supposed to be able to speak "dog"? If an animal is acting aggressively, barking, growling, trying to get at people or running at them while doing those things, it's acting aggressively. It'd be great if animals were as predictable as some people are making them out to be, but animals get set off by things we don't always completely understand, and when they are not on leashes, we may not be able to control their actions.

    Honestly, I use the exact same criteria for most animals I meet, dogs, bears, moose, etc. If the animal is coming at me, barring it's teeth, ears back, raising it's neck hair, barking, growling, it's not to say hello. Even the dogs that do come up to say "hello" have been known to do things like give little bites/nips when they are so excited. I don't know if your animal has rabies or not.
    Would you actually interpret a dog growling at you while holding a stick, ball or other dog toy, and wagging its tail as "aggressive"? I'd hope not.

    What about excited, playful barking?

    By your definition of "aggressive" behaviors, every dog in the world is "aggressive" at some point. Hell, my dog growls in his sleep, most likely at the thought of the unruly kittens that live across the street. He's tried to herd them before, and it bothers him to see them ranging freely. Is that "aggressive" behavior?
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  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Would you actually interpret a dog growling at you while holding a stick, ball or other dog toy, and wagging its tail as "aggressive"? I'd hope not.

    What about excited, playful barking?...
    Did you read my post? He has no obligation to be pre-educated on what your dog means when it growls and has little opportunity to do so. It is your responsibility to ensure your dog is not viewed as a threat by others. It is not their responsibility to learn your dog's language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Did you read my post? He has no obligation to be pre-educated on what your dog means when it growls and has little opportunity to do so. It is your responsibility to ensure your dog is not viewed as a threat by others. It is not their responsibility to learn your dog's language.
    Here's the problem. There has to be a reasonable threshold for allowable behaviors. Their own personal interpretations, fears or phobias are not my problem.

    What if someone has a general phobia of dogs; are they entitled to blow my dog away because he exists in the same time and space, despite showing no behaviors that any reasonable adult human being would interpret as hostile?

    I can't control another person's perceptions. If my dog is running around a dog park, and a person outside the fence is scared of him, by your definition, I am failing to ensure that they do not view him as a threat, and both my dog and I are automatically at fault, despite there being no interaction at all between the two of them.

    Let's take it another step. My dog runs in the general direction of someone with a fear of dogs, then veers away. Perhaps he's retrieving a ball, or scattering a flock of geese. Both of which were done at my direction. Do you feel that the person with a fear of dogs would be justified in killing my dog, because he or she felt threatened by this non-interaction?
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  77. #277
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    i have a black lab.

    "Statistics show golden retrievers and Labrador retrievers are the two breeds least likely to bite. Retrievers have been bred to retrieve water fowl, the animals are bred to have a ďsoft mouthĒ that does not damage the hunter's birds. This ďsoft mouthĒ makes the dogs less likely to bite."

    i can literally remove food from her bowl by hand while she's eating and she won't react at all. but she can be scary when a stranger is near. i don't like to be out of the room in that situation. dogs are unpredictable.

  78. #278
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    dogs on trail pretty much always blows unless you know in advance hey we are riding with doggo over here

    and the evidence is here in this thread. biker just never will know what that dog is gonna do, so suddenly biker is not in the ride groove anymore, they mentally have to deal with this 'dog situation' until they are far away from it. or stop and make pals with it if that is what is preferred



    each and every damn time, an unknown, unleahed dog on trail ruins all bikers grooves to some extent unless you are just that dog lover who gets all excited when a strange dog is out and about
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
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    dogs on trail pretty much always blows unless you know in advance hey we are riding with doggo over here

    and the evidence is here in this thread. biker just never will know what that dog is gonna do, so suddenly biker is not in the ride groove anymore, they mentally have to deal with this 'dog situation' until they are far away from it. or stop and make pals with it if that is what is preferred



    each and every damn time, an unknown, unleahed dog on trail ruins all bikers grooves to some extent unless you are just that dog lover who gets all excited when a strange dog is out and about
    If a non-negative interaction with a dog ruins your "groove" so much during a bike ride, the problem isn't the dog, it's you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    each and every damn time, an unknown, unleahed dog on trail ruins all bikers grooves to some extent unless you are just that dog lover who gets all excited when a strange dog is out and about
    I'm willing to bet that most people really don't care. It's just those that are predisposed to fear dogs for whatever reason, be it experience or just a generally fearful personality.

    Also, as mentioned earlier, a lot of popular riding spots in MA allow off-leash dogs on the trails. If you're going to any of those, you should expect to encounter them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    Iím just curious as to how you fire at the dog, and NOT endanger your kid?
    Muzzle awareness and training. I'll be between the dog and my son. I'm not going to take a shot that would hit anywhere other than the dog and preferable at an angle that not allow that round go anywhere after

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    .
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    dogs on trail pretty much always blows unless you know in advance hey we are riding with doggo over here

    and the evidence is here in this thread. biker just never will know what that dog is gonna do, so suddenly biker is not in the ride groove anymore, they mentally have to deal with this 'dog situation' until they are far away from it. or stop and make pals with it if that is what is preferred



    each and every damn time, an unknown, unleahed dog on trail ruins all bikers grooves to some extent unless you are just that dog lover who gets all excited when a strange dog is out and about
    My dog is just another trail user. She doesnít care about you, or anybody in your group. She just wants to trail run. Thatís it. She knows how to do it, and she doesnít get in the way of other users. If youíre fast enough, sheíll let you pass. Whatís the big deal? Why are people so uptight? Youíre not even talking about an aggression issue, just simply being there is enough to get some folks wound up.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Here's the problem. There has to be a reasonable threshold for allowable behaviors. Their own personal interpretations, fears or phobias are not my problem.

    What if someone has a general phobia of dogs; are they entitled to blow my dog away because he exists in the same time and space, despite showing no behaviors that any reasonable adult human being would interpret as hostile?

    I can't control another person's perceptions. If my dog is running around a dog park, and a person outside the fence is scared of him, by your definition, I am failing to ensure that they do not view him as a threat, and both my dog and I are automatically at fault, despite there being no interaction at all between the two of them.

    Let's take it another step. My dog runs in the general direction of someone with a fear of dogs, then veers away. Perhaps he's retrieving a ball, or scattering a flock of geese. Both of which were done at my direction. Do you feel that the person with a fear of dogs would be justified in killing my dog, because he or she felt threatened by this non-interaction?
    The reasonable threshold for allowable behaviors is the non interaction in both stories.

    Now if there is direct interaction that you can't control, it is the recipient of the interaction that gets to determine if the dog is a threat. You don't get to determine if your dogs behavior is a threat once you lose control of it.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Muzzle awareness and training. I'll be between the dog and my son. I'm not going to take a shot that would hit anywhere other than the dog and preferable at an angle that not allow that round go anywhere after
    Fair enough. My only caveat is that dogs receive the same discretion as humans, meaning accurately assessing a perceived threat.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I understand all that. I too am I father, and protecting my son is always first. Iím just curious as to how you fire at the dog, and NOT endanger your kid? The owner of that dog is a douchebag, and should be dealt with.

    Iíve been bitten by dogs. My dog was attacked by another dog when she was a puppy. A fairly viscous dog, that I kicked the shit out of, which of course angered the douchebag owner. His response was that his dog had never done anything like that, which is bullshit. Dogs like that exhibit aggressive behavior before an attack. He either didnít recognize it, because heís and idiot, or heís just not paying attention.




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    Easy it's called being a responsible gun owner and being aware unlike the dog owner who's put you in the situation where you feel the need to draw your weapon.
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  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    If a non-negative interaction with a dog ruins your "groove" so much during a bike ride, the problem isn't the dog, it's you.
    As I said, I like dogs but I've been frightened by large dogs running towards me, both on foot and on the bike. Two Rottweilers on one occasion and the owner's assurance that 'they won't bite' did feck all to reassure me. I've gone over the bars hitting a dog that darted in front of me. No, I was not going fast and I was watching the dog. Little 'B' still got me!

    Dogs aren't wild animals. We breed them, we buy them, we put them into the environments we choose to. They wouldn't exist without us and they are one hundred percent our responsibility. The problem is not the dog, it's the owner.

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    The reasonable threshold for allowable behaviors is the non interaction in both stories.

    Now if there is direct interaction that you can't control, it is the recipient of the interaction that gets to determine if the dog is a threat. You don't get to determine if your dogs behavior is a threat once you lose control of it.
    That's fair.

    And, that's exactly how I train my dog; he doesn't interact with anyone without my approval.
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  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    As I said, I like dogs but I've been frightened by large dogs running towards me, both on foot and on the bike. Two Rottweilers on one occasion and the owner's assurance that 'they won't bite' did feck all to reassure me. I've gone over the bars hitting a dog that darted in front of me. No, I was not going fast and I was watching the dog. Little 'B' still got me!

    Dogs aren't wild animals. We breed them, we buy them, we put them into the environments we choose to. They wouldn't exist without us and they are one hundred percent our responsibility. The problem is not the dog, it's the owner.
    My problem with his statement is that he didn't say that anything bad happened, or that anything at all really happened, for that matter. He makes it sound like their very presence and being off-leash ruins his ride.

    What about a dog passing him on the trail ruins his ride?
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  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    My problem with his statement is that he didn't say that anything bad happened, or that anything at all really happened, for that matter. He makes it sound like their very presence and being off-leash ruins his ride.

    What about a dog passing him on the trail ruins his ride?
    Exactly. A dog just being there seems to be enough to spoil some peopleís day.


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  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    What about a dog passing him on the trail ruins his ride?
    One of the trail centres I go to often is quite popular with dog owners. I blame YouTube videos for making 'trail-dogs' a thing ;0) I've never had an issue but I can see how it might happen. The dogs are never on a leash but they've never interfered with my riding. I've never seen any dog's dirt either but I was talking to a park warden who told me that dog mess was an issue.

    Another trail centre I visited had so much dog shite on the trails I wrote to the council, who own the centre, and I've never been back. Two bikes with embedded dog stink sure ruins your day.

    My point is that you can't pass judgment on a situation over the internet. Maybe he's justified, maybe not, I don't know. I do know that free roaming dogs can and do create problems for others in certain circumstances.

  91. #291
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    This thread gives me a headache.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  92. #292
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    Mountain Biker's dog shot while out on the trails-a64c1ebe-a5e6-4360-a172-d42f5b22440e.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I blame YouTube videos for making 'trail-dogs' a thing ;0) .
    LOL! Trail dogs were a thing long before YouTube was a thing.
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  94. #294
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  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    LOL! Trail dogs were a thing long before YouTube was a thing.
    Yep, nothing more rewarding than a well trained, behaved trail dog out with his master. Enjoying what they are bred to do, run in the outdoors. Itís the best therapy for a dog and they live a longer healthier, happier life because of it.

    And now, back to our regularly scheduled mtbr bitch session.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yep, nothing more rewarding than a well trained, behaved trail dog out with his master. Enjoying what they are bred to do, run in the outdoors. Itís the best therapy for a dog and they live a longer healthier, happier life because of it.

    And now, back to our regularly scheduled mtbr bitch session.
    Yeah, we typically have at least one and often a number of dogs with us on group rides in my area. Even the brewhouse at trail's end encourages people to bring their dogs along. Sounds like some people would lose their minds living around here. Pretty funny.
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  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, we typically have at least one and often a number of dogs with us on group rides in my area. Even the brewhouse at trail's end encourages people to bring their dogs along. Sounds like some people would lose their minds living around here. Pretty funny.
    Yup. Itís pretty much the same here. My dog goes with 98% of the time, and sometimes she has company. Lots and lots of people around here take there dogs into the woods, usually off leash. Pretty much all the breweries are dog friendly. I guess we live in a different world.


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    You guys are great, we go from a dog threatening someone and their right to protect themselves to people would freak living here we have so many dogs.
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  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    You guys are great, we go from a dog threatening someone and their right to protect themselves to people would freak living here we have so many dogs.


    What dog was threatening who?
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  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    You guys are great, we go from a dog threatening someone and their right to protect themselves to people would freak living here we have so many dogs.
    Pretty cool huh? Turning a dog hater fest into something positive. Whoís dog threatened you?


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