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  1. #101
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    I get that not all people like dogs, and that dogs on trails is always a hotly debated topic on these forums, but what I find surprising on this thread is the number of mountain bikers who want to see all dogs on leashes.

    Personally, over the years I've seen a number of instances where dog owners are on one side of a trail or fire road and let their leashed dog dart across to the other side in front of a rider and the results can be an injured rider, and injured dog, and/or an altercation between the rider and dog owner.

    I agree totally, that if a dog is aggressive or otherwise causes issues (an overly friendly dog can take out your front wheel too) it should be on a leash to be kept under control. It'd be better if those aggressive dogs were kept off public trails in general (same as I feel about poorly trained horses).

    But my personal experience has been that a leash is not a good predictor of a considerate dog owner or a well trained/behaved dog, as I regularly encounter considerate dog owners who call their unleashed dog to their side, grab it's collar and fully yield the trail every time they see a mountain biker (I always give a friendly hello and thank you to those folks). I've also been lunged/snapped at by dogs on leashes and had my leashed dog attacked by another dog on a leash.

    I'd rather take my chances with the occasional poorly behaved dog than have to deal with every dog running around the end of a 25 ft retractable leash.
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  2. #102
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    Yes you make a fair point. The leash is not a solution to all dog related problems. But I have noticed that people who take the trouble to leash their dogs tend to be a bit more considerate. They apologize and try to preemptively avoid problems. On the other hand, I rarely get unleashed dog owners taking action as preemptively. There is usually no apology either after close encounters.....almost like it's your problem if you can't deal with their dog.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I get that not all people like dogs, and that dogs on trails is always a hotly debated topic on these forums, but what I find surprising on this thread is the number of mountain bikers who want to see all dogs on leashes.

    Personally, over the years I've seen a number of instances where dog owners are on one side of a trail or fire road and let their leashed dog dart across to the other side in front of a rider and the results can be an injured rider, and injured dog, and/or an altercation between the rider and dog owner.

    I agree totally, that if a dog is aggressive or otherwise causes issues (an overly friendly dog can take out your front wheel too) it should be on a leash to be kept under control. It'd be better if those aggressive dogs were kept off public trails in general (same as I feel about poorly trained horses).

    But my personal experience has been that a leash is not a good predictor of a considerate dog owner or a well trained/behaved dog, as I regularly encounter considerate dog owners who call their unleashed dog to their side, grab it's collar and fully yield the trail every time they see a mountain biker (I always give a friendly hello and thank you to those folks). I've also been lunged/snapped at by dogs on leashes and had my leashed dog attacked by another dog on a leash.

    I'd rather take my chances with the occasional poorly behaved dog than have to deal with every dog running around the end of a 25 ft retractable leash.
    In this case it appears the dog was running free while the owner was mountain biking. As such, the owner was not in a position to be in control of the dog, leash or not, well behaved dog or not.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    the dog was running free while the owner was mountain biking.
    Oh, the horror!!!

    I can't believe how many mountain bikers these days are so uptight (at least in regions other than my own). What the hell happened?
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Oh, the horror!!!

    I can't believe how many mountain bikers these days are so uptight (at least in regions other than my own). What the hell happened?
    I can't speak for your region, but on one of our local trails, the unleashed dog problem is so bad I almost run over a dog every three rides or so and I clean up dog poop or get it all over my tires every five rides or so. The mountain bikers are slowly ceding the trail to the dog walkers because it's not fun riding there anymore. Bike traffic is down to a trickle despite the fact MTBers build the trail. That's what happened.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    All true, but it still doesn't make the guy who shot it any less of an @sshole. imo.
    I was not justifying or decrying the actions of whomever shot the dog. Since we have no idea WHY the dog was shot I think it is best to reserve judgement.

    If the dog charged the person while growling, they probably are justified.
    If the dog was minding it's own business and someone shot it anyway, they are not justified.

    We just don't know enough to make that call I think.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I'd rather take my chances with the occasional poorly behaved dog than have to deal with every dog running around the end of a 25 ft retractable leash.
    In the Nature preserve I ride in the leash law is for 6 foot leashes. Those 25 foot retractable leashes are actually a violation of the leash law and if Law Enforcement was so inclined they could write a citation as if the dog was not on leash. This is the case in just about all of California. The problem is Law Enforcement generally has more important things to do than check for 6 foot leashes and write citations.

    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    Yes you make a fair point. The leash is not a solution to all dog related problems. But I have noticed that people who take the trouble to leash their dogs tend to be a bit more considerate. They apologize and try to preemptively avoid problems. On the other hand, I rarely get unleashed dog owners taking action as preemptively. There is usually no apology either after close encounters.....almost like it's your problem if you can't deal with their dog.
    I have experienced the same thing.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Oh, the horror!!!

    I can't believe how many mountain bikers these days are so uptight (at least in regions other than my own). What the hell happened?
    I’m with ya slap. I remember a time when trail dogs were a welcomed thing in our sport. As long as the owner knew his dog and had control off leash. A “real trail dog” is far more trained than 99:9% of leashed dogs. I understand the squeamish types being alarmed by the sight of an unleashed dog but there’s nothing more rewarding than seeing a well behaved dog running the trails with its master while he’s on a bike. Quite the beautiful thing in my opinion. Problem is, the “real” trail dogs that are trained to be that way are far and few between these days. Most owners who lock their dogs up for weeks on end then take them out on the trail and expect them to be well behaved off leash dog. It doesn't work that way. It takes many hours spent with your dog to get them to the level of a “real” trail dog. Most that are like that go everywhere with their owner and understand how to act without a leash. Being locked up behind a gate for days on end then some interaction only makes them more skittish and unpredictable.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Oh, the horror!!!

    I can't believe how many mountain bikers these days are so uptight (at least in regions other than my own). What the hell happened?
    Well, the dog ran away and is now dead.

    Clearly it was not trained and/or controlled. That is on the owner.

  10. #110
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    The last time I made the mistake of trying to enjoy my local county park(the only one with riding trails for a half hour radius) on a saturday morning an otherwise remote part of the park was nothing but unleashed dog interactions. Inside of a 2 mile route I had to stop and face down specifically 3 separate large breed off leash dogs that were snarling and posturing. I am an animal owner and know when dogs are attack vs mere chase play. The latino 'hood' where I grew up was filled with large breed dogs that were let out and shut out of thier houses at night because the owners didn't want to be arsed with paying attention or walking. Usually police. Most of the time those were more about chasing, and would harass pedestrians constantly. As riders, my friends would sometimes run shield for friend's moms who wanted to walk thier neighborhood(such a crime).

    On trails however, a respectful dog on a leash is a nice thing sometimes. A respectful dog off a leash can also be a good thing. A respctful dog plus any other dog can be a roll of the dice. The last dog of the route that saturday almost made me want to break out the strobing flashlight because of how close it was and with hair standing up. The owner lady was about as much influence as a butterfly. After a few minutes of that confrontation I finally got to pass and a couple minutes later I heard it growling and fighting with a few of the previously encountered. This is a LEASH ONLY park explicitly stated.
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  11. #111
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    That sucks for all you guys who have to ride trails that are teeming with unruly off leash dogs. There are quite a few dog walkers where I'm at but they usually don't venture much further than a couple of miles from the trailhead so it's easy to escape them.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    That sucks for all you guys who have to ride trails that are teeming with unruly off leash dogs. There are quite a few dog walkers where I'm at but they usually don't venture much further than a couple of miles from the trailhead so it's easy to escape them.
    It reminds me of horse threads, I deal with more horses than dogs, and never had issue. Once I had a Lab of leash attempt to charge, but the owner called him back, no problem.
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  13. #113
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    I gave up on one smaller park nearby because it seems to be the dog walker's park. Had a couple times where *all were leashed, but the six owners and 8 dogs formed a conversational spider of rope across the entire right of way until they looked up and realized other people wanted to pass. That was more of entertaining to see the dogs walking a slow tangling mesh around thier humans...
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotHead View Post
    I highly doubt the dog was acting in a threatening manner. He was someone's buddy. This sounds like a total azzhat move. Too bad there is no way to find out who the shooter was. Dumbazz. ugh.
    Yea I heard that same stupid shit from a state trooper when told him his dogs held my wife, my two young kids and I at bay. They came out of nowhere, my son was about 4 and walking, daughter in a stroller.
    One has his face about a foot from the daughter and the other is looking at my son and I- both growling. No parent should every have to sit there and try and decide which child to save.

    I love dogs- F-- owners that let them out unleashed. Same crap every time " oh my dog wouldn't do that."

    I wish I had been carrying they'd both be dead and not a threat to anyone anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja View Post
    I'm a little late to the party but thought I might chime in. I live on the Oyster River about 50 feet from where the dog was found. I spent a few days out looking for it. The Ridge trail is right beside a lot of private property where people farm goats, sheep, chickens, etc. It's a 15 minute walk from a residential neighbourhood. A loose dog wouldn't last long on any of those properties. That's life in a rural area. I've seen the damage a dog "who wouldn't hurt a fly" can do to a full grown horse. Yes, that dog was shot when it came back the next day. Why this particular dog was shot is pure speculation but there aren't many dogs who wouldn't go after a chicken especially if it had been lost for a few days. I highly doubt if anyone around here is maliciously hunting dogs. There would be a lot more dead dogs if that were so because nobody leashes their pets when the walk or bike the trails in this semi-remote area of Vancouver Island. As for how the dog got in the river, the water levels in the Oyster rise and fall up to 4 feet in one day with the rains we get this time of year. That dog could have died 50 feet from the water and been washed away the next day.
    Attachment 1229691Attachment 1229692
    So if the dog was found 50 feet from where you live, was it found all the way at the mouth of the Oyster? Was it past the bridge? News report is vague and news reports are often not accurate. Just curious.

    Ya the dog could have bolted all the way to York road, if it came off
    smuglgers or baby head road and hit the logging road. Could have traveled down iron river road too, although it's a distance, not that dogs can't travel far fast especially if they hit a road. Much closer for the dog to return back to Glenmore Rd.

    Pets go missing around Black Creek quite often, don't usually hear of them being shot though. Most people are good enough to try to reunite pet and owner.

    The question for me is was the dog shot in/on the trail system or off it. So if this dog was on someones property and was threatening them, their family, their livestock whatever, why don't they step forward and say so, and put an end to the questions? Chances are, they won't be charged and they will be in the right. And if the dog threatened them on the trail, same deal. Somebody knows what happened.

    And for dog owners that let their dogs be aggressive to others on a trail system, well they suck. Far too many people don't properly socialize their dogs with people, children, bikes, other dogs, and far too many people don't discipline their dogs!!!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I’m with ya slap. I remember a time when trail dogs were a welcomed thing in our sport. As long as the owner knew his dog and had control off leash. A “real trail dog” is far more trained than 99:9% of leashed dogs. I understand the squeamish types being alarmed by the sight of an unleashed dog but there’s nothing more rewarding than seeing a well behaved dog running the trails with its master while he’s on a bike. Quite the beautiful thing in my opinion. Problem is, the “real” trail dogs that are trained to be that way are far and few between these days. Most owners who lock their dogs up for weeks on end then take them out on the trail and expect them to be well behaved off leash dog. It doesn't work that way. It takes many hours spent with your dog to get them to the level of a “real” trail dog. Most that are like that go everywhere with their owner and understand how to act without a leash. Being locked up behind a gate for days on end then some interaction only makes them more skittish and unpredictable.
    See, this is where I think you have people mistaken. I think *most* riders would welcome a well behaved trail dog, I know I would and do quite often. It's the ones who won't respond to their owners commands or that act somewhat aggressively towards people or even other dogs that aren't welcome. Same for the owners, if they're letting their dog shit on the trails and not picking it up, that's not welcome and they can GTFO the trails, IMO. I've stepped in shit twice in the last month because of asshole owners.
    Last edited by chadbrochills; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:28 AM.
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    I agree that shitty dogs and owners are, well, shitty.
    The overwhelming majority of dogs and owners I run into out on the trails don't fit that description though. Of course, I'm not one to get my panties all bunched if some happy-ass dog comes bounding up to say hi to me either, even if he does smell a bit like the swamp he was just rolling in.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    I was out night riding with a group of friends and we stopped to take a quick break. While we were sitting at a picnic table, a big Weimaraner comes running out of one of the trails heading full steam towards us while growling and barking. It's lucky it stopped short of us when the owner whistled at it as it was about to get shot, both myself and my buddy pulled our guns (both CCW holders with plenty of shooting experience). It was pitch black out and the dog was off leash in a public park which is against Florida State laws. It really scared one of the girls with us. The owner acted like it was no big deal so my buddy let him have it about having his dogs off leash.

    I'm a dog owner and lover but I'll shoot one if I have to. People need to realize that others aren't always dog lovers and having them off leash can lead to bad things, unfortunately.

    **For clarification, we only had our guns with us because it was a night ride and people had spotted some bears in the area we were riding the night before. We don't normally carry them while riding.
    Bears are protected by the Bear Conservation Rule , which states it is illegal "take, possess, injure, shoot, collect, or sell black bears or their parts or to attempt to engage in such conduct except as authorized by Commission rule or by permit from the Commission." The only applicable defense to illegally take or attempt take of a bear is the Common Law Defense of Necessity. The defense is limited to the following circumstances:

    the defendant reasonably believed that his or her action was necessary to avoid an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to himself or herself or others;
    the defendant did not intentionally or recklessly place himself or herself in a situation in which it would be probable that he or she would be forced to choose the criminal conduct;
    there existed no other adequate means to avoid the threatened harm except the criminal conduct;
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    We were riding a directional up trail when out of nowhere 2 young boys(8-10) came down full speed and clipped my wife before she could move.
    Should I start carrying a gun and should I have shot them to protect myself and family?
    Really we are in the outdoors and should respect other users. If you are afraid of animals then carry a water bottle or pepper spray.
    I feel privileged to come across Bear, Moose, Coyote, even Big Cats. And someday if one attacks, kills and eats me, well I have had a good run.
    Dogs, You are not going to run into a savage drug dealing pit bull. The most your going to get is a bite mark. Nowhere near as bad as that broken collar bone.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by armii View Post
    Bears are protected by the Bear Conservation Rule , which states it is illegal "take, possess, injure, shoot, collect, or sell black bears or their parts or to attempt to engage in such conduct except as authorized by Commission rule or by permit from the Commission." The only applicable defense to illegally take or attempt take of a bear is the Common Law Defense of Necessity. The defense is limited to the following circumstances:

    the defendant reasonably believed that his or her action was necessary to avoid an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to himself or herself or others;
    the defendant did not intentionally or recklessly place himself or herself in a situation in which it would be probable that he or she would be forced to choose the criminal conduct;
    there existed no other adequate means to avoid the threatened harm except the criminal conduct;
    the harm sought to be avoided was more egregious than the criminal conduct perpetrated to avoid it; and
    the defendant ceased the criminal conduct as soon as the necessity or apparent necessity for it ended.
    On top of that, who the hell gets so scared they all of a sudden need to start packing because someone reminded them that bears live in the woods. Particularly black bears.

    I guess I should probably make sure my family is armed every time we mow the lawn or get the mail, let alone walk into the woods.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlee View Post
    We were riding a directional up trail when out of nowhere 2 young boys(8-10) came down full speed and clipped my wife before she could move.
    Should I start carrying a gun and should I have shot them to protect myself and family?
    Really we are in the outdoors and should respect other users. If you are afraid of animals then carry a water bottle or pepper spray.
    I feel privileged to come across Bear, Moose, Coyote, even Big Cats. And someday if one attacks, kills and eats me, well I have had a good run.
    Dogs, You are not going to run into a savage drug dealing pit bull. The most your going to get is a bite mark. Nowhere near as bad as that broken collar bone.
    I'd like to nominate this post for "Most Ignorant Post Ever".
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I'd like to nominate this post for "Most Ignorant Post Ever".
    I will second that.
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    We have some new awesome downhill trails we built this last summer (big authorized project, spend many days myself digging). They are directional, big jumps, etc. I come down at normal speed, jumping, etc., pass a guy, then a few hundred feet later his dog shoots onto the trail and tries to get run over by my front wheel. And then we end up "chasing" a dog down the trail that doesn't know any better to get out of the way of the trail. I'm all for yielding, but come on, now your dog is a menace and it's going to get hurt when someone runs over it. I have accidentally ran over a dog's legs before, nothing I could do about it, similar situation. Feel bad for the dog, but it's the owner's fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    See, this is where I think you have people mistaken. I think *most* riders would welcome a well behaved trail dog, I know I would and do quite often. It's the ones who won't respond to their owners commands or that act somewhat aggressively towards people or even other dogs that aren't welcome. Same for the owners, if they're letting their dog shit on the trails and not picking it up, that's not welcome and they can GTFO the trails, IMO. I've stepped in shit twice in the last month because of asshole owners.
    Good points, “stepping in shit twice”. Uncalled for, irresponsible owners. Maybe my post didn’t cover enough about how they are. I think I did though, go back and read it. In a nutshell > I said many of today’s owners lock their dog up behind a gate for days on end then one day they take the dog out on the trail and expect him or her to act responsible off leash. It takes many hours of training and bonding to make a good trail dog. Good trail dogs are created by people who take their dog everywhere with them. This creates a bond and the dog understands how to act through many hours of friendship, bonding and training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    We have some new awesome downhill trails we built this last summer (big authorized project, spend many days myself digging). They are directional, big jumps, etc. I come down at normal speed, jumping, etc., pass a guy, then a few hundred feet later his dog shoots onto the trail and tries to get run over by my front wheel. And then we end up "chasing" a dog down the trail that doesn't know any better to get out of the way of the trail. I'm all for yielding, but come on, now your dog is a menace and it's going to get hurt when someone runs over it. I have accidentally ran over a dog's legs before, nothing I could do about it, similar situation. Feel bad for the dog, but it's the owner's fault.
    I have no qualms against giving a dog a wheel buzz if it's regularly getting in my way on a ride. I do it to my buddy's dog regularly because he sometimes gets it in his head that he's supposed to be leading. Yeah...no.


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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Good points, “stepping in shit twice”. Uncalled for, irresponsible owners.
    Fortunately, many of the dog owners in my area are considerate enough to place their dog's shite in brightly colored plastic baggies and place them in the middle of the trail so that they can easily be seen. And when confronted about leaving it there, they are always kind enough to inform us that "they will pick it up on their way back."
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    On top of that, who the hell gets so scared they all of a sudden need to start packing because someone reminded them that bears live in the woods. Particularly black bears.

    I guess I should probably make sure my family is armed every time we mow the lawn or get the mail, let alone walk into the woods.

    Yeah, because mowing the lawn or getting the mail is exactly the same as riding 20-25 miles, at night, through the forest.

    We also have bobcats and wild hogs here. The bobcats are pretty shy, for the most part, but the hogs don't seem to be from my experiences. My house backs up to one of the local trails where the hogs tear it up all the time so I see them out there frequently and can hear them being pretty active at night. They're big and could easily hurt someone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Yeah, because mowing the lawn or getting the mail is exactly the same as riding 20-25 miles, at night, through the forest.
    I've seen more bears in my backyard than in the forest. Things are everywhere around here.

    And I'm pretty sure you don't have grizzlies or polar bears in Florida, at least last I checked. If you said you were scared of alligators or hogs, maybe I could understand, but frigging black bears? C'mon...
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    Fortunately, many of the dog owners in my area are considerate enough to place their dog's shite in brightly colored plastic baggies and place them in the middle of the trail so that they can easily be seen. And when confronted about leaving it there, they are always kind enough to inform us that "they will pick it up on their way back."
    I totally understand, there’s jackasses in every walk of life. Those type of dog owners give considerate dog owners a bad name.
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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Oh, the horror!!!

    I can't believe how many mountain bikers these days are so uptight (at least in regions other than my own). What the hell happened?
    Some of it may be just increase in inconsiderate owners. I see the latter in my neighborhood in more owners letting dog crap on other lawns and not picking up.

    But MTBR or thread discussions tend to pull-in the rulemaker/rulefollower/right if way solution to all "problems", as well as the safety nanny.

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  31. #131
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    this thread has devolved into the other 25 threads about loose dogs,

    identical discussion just the dates and names are changed

    should be closed imho

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    dogs are a major responsibility, like a 2 -3 year old human. too many owners
    do not take the time to train the mutt. dogs learn pretty quick if you spend the time.

    unless you have an actual defective dog with mental problems
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  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I've seen more bears in my backyard than in the forest. Things are everywhere around here.

    And I'm pretty sure you don't have grizzlies or polar bears in Florida, at least last I checked. If you said you were scared of alligators or hogs, maybe I could understand, but frigging black bears? C'mon...
    I'm glad you get more bears in your back yard than in the forest, we do not. In fact, I've lived in Florida from '88 to present (lived in Western Broward County along the 'Glades then moved to Ocala, FL) and still haven't seen a bear in person and I live right along the Greenway system. You act as if they're come cuddly creature you can walk up to and play with. They're not. Are they less aggressive than other types of bears? Yes, I think we're in agreement there. That's doesn't mean a spooked or sick black bear couldn't seriously harm or kill a human. I've ridden this section of trail, which was just recently marked with "Higher than usual bear activity" signs all over the place, alone quite a few times without a weapon of any sort, I mean I guess my multi-tool could be considered one, but I digress. It was night, the first time the girls rode at night and after seeing the above mentioned signs, they asked if we'd mind bringing them so we did. Big deal.
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    Closing this thread just another sign MTBR Has gone to the dogs.

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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I've seen more bears in my backyard than in the forest. Things are everywhere around here.

    And I'm pretty sure you don't have grizzlies or polar bears in Florida, at least last I checked. If you said you were scared of alligators or hogs, maybe I could understand, but frigging black bears? C'mon...
    Yeah, they are real friendly
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  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlee View Post
    Dogs, You are not going to run into a savage drug dealing pit bull. The most your going to get is a bite mark. Nowhere near as bad as that broken collar bone.
    Says someone who hasn't had a calf bite in muscle take months to recover all the way...
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  36. #136
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    I've had a couple run-ins with black bears. One was closer than I would have liked, but thankfully, it ended without anyone getting hurt.
    Not so in this recent encounter:
    https://www-pennlive-com.cdn.ampproj...red-woman.html

    But to be fair, like shark attacks, considering the numbers of actual interactions, actual black bear attacks are very rare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by supersedona View Post
    Says someone who hasn't had a calf bite in muscle take months to recover all the way...
    It was a sarcastic comment Dog bites do hurt, I have had my fair share of them. a realistic point is that if your so afraid of the outdoors and the animals you might encounter then carrying a sidearm isn't the solution.
    Out of all the animals you might encounter the two legged kind are the most dangerous, see post #1.

  38. #138
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    The naturally occurring animals concern me more from a collision standpoint than a fierce standpoint. Almost been hit by fleeing deer several times in the same park. No arguments on the human remark for sure.
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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    But to be fair, like shark attacks, considering the numbers of actual interactions, actual black bear attacks are very rare.
    Yeah, about 1 a year each. Make sure to never go to the beach without a gun!

    You're 600% more likely to get killed by a spider than a bear and 800% more likely to be killed by ants. And of course, something like 60,000% more likely to get struck by lightning. Best to just stay in and hide!
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  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, about 1 a year each. Make sure to never go to the beach without a gun!

    You're 600% more likely to get killed by a spider than a bear and 800% more likely to be killed by ants. And of course, something like 60,000% more likely to get struck by lightning. Best to just stay in and hide!
    You really seem to have problems with guns. You should probably stay inside and hide

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    You really seem to have problems with guns. You should probably stay inside and hide
    Nope, no problems with guns.
    Just people that are way too quick to pull them out.
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    Interestingly enough I went for a ride today from one trail head to the next. When I exited the woods into the second trail head an unleashed trail dog flat out attacked me and bit me 4 times. The owner trying to restrain it in the car before it finally got between his legs and made it across the lot to me. The third bite the dog was actually hanging off my thigh by its teeth before I punched it in the head and the owner grabbed it!
    I don't condone shooting dogs at random, nor do I carry my pistol while riding. But as I set here with a bleeding hole in my leg(blood thinners are awesome) waiting for a trip to urgent care for a tetanus booster and probably a stitch, my thoughts are what kind of trouble would I have been in if I had been carrying and shot the thing.
    Trail head signs clearly state 'leashed at all times' and anybody who thinks they have a good trail dog that acts like that should probably be .... well whatever.
    Guys dog slipped his grasp and bit me a 4th time for good measure..
    Completely rode off in shock trying to get away from the situation, never got the guys info. Now I have to hope it had its current shots.
    No sympathy for people losing track of their 'good trail dogs'. If it was a good trail dog it wouldn't be beyond gone and nowhere to be found for hours/days.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlee View Post
    It was a sarcastic comment Dog bites do hurt, I have had my fair share of them. a realistic point is that if your so afraid of the outdoors and the animals you might encounter then carrying a sidearm isn't the solution.
    Out of all the animals you might encounter the two legged kind are the most dangerous, see post #1.
    Carrying a side arm to deal with both 2 and 4 legged threats is perfectly reasonable. My wife just got home from a trail run and it sounds as though she is putting her piece back in the safe as I type.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    You really seem to have problems with guns. You should probably stay inside and hide
    You should read more on here if you want to hear some really off the wall stuff. There could be a story where a pistol was used by a passerby to stop the raping of a hundred schoolchildren and there would be some keyboard kathys smugly saying that using a gun wasn't smart at all.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Oh, the horror!!!

    I can't believe how many mountain bikers these days are so uptight (at least in regions other than my own). What the hell happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    On top of that, who the hell gets so scared they all of a sudden need to start packing because someone reminded them that bears live in the woods. Particularly black bears.

    I guess I should probably make sure my family is armed every time we mow the lawn or get the mail, let alone walk into the woods.
    you answered your own question.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mckinley View Post
    So if the dog was found 50 feet from where you live, was it found all the way at the mouth of the Oyster? Was it past the bridge? News report is vague and news reports are often not accurate. Just curious.

    Ya the dog could have bolted all the way to York road, if it came off
    smuglgers or baby head road and hit the logging road. Could have traveled down iron river road too, although it's a distance, not that dogs can't travel far fast especially if they hit a road. Much closer for the dog to return back to Glenmore Rd.

    Pets go missing around Black Creek quite often, don't usually hear of them being shot though. Most people are good enough to try to reunite pet and owner.

    The question for me is was the dog shot in/on the trail system or off it. So if this dog was on someones property and was threatening them, their family, their livestock whatever, why don't they step forward and say so, and put an end to the questions? Chances are, they won't be charged and they will be in the right. And if the dog threatened them on the trail, same deal. Somebody knows what happened.

    And for dog owners that let their dogs be aggressive to others on a trail system, well they suck. Far too many people don't properly socialize their dogs with people, children, bikes, other dogs, and far too many people don't discipline their dogs!!!
    Yes, at the river mouth, past the bridge. The original story from the owner was that the dog was lost on Ridge Trail. There is a Ridge Trail in the Pub to Pub trail system & it sounded like that's where the dog was lost as the owner was asking people walking in that park to keep an eye out. There is also a Ridge Trail in the system upstream at the top end of Glenmore. It makes more sense that the owner was mountain biking at the top of Glenmore but maybe he wasn't a serious biker and was just cruising the trail down by the shore. There's nothing to stop a dog from washing down from the upper trails though.

    If the dog was shot on the lower trail I would have heard it. I'm in the RV park across the river. I can hear people talking on those trails.
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    As to why the shooter hasn't come forward... right or wrong won't make a difference in the minds of a lot of local people. The shooter would be crucified on social media no matter what the justification for the shooting might be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja's Son
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  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattallica View Post
    Interestingly enough I went for a ride today from one trail head to the next. When I exited the woods into the second trail head an unleashed trail dog flat out attacked me and bit me 4 times. The owner trying to restrain it in the car before it finally got between his legs and made it across the lot to me. The third bite the dog was actually hanging off my thigh by its teeth before I punched it in the head and the owner grabbed it!
    I don't condone shooting dogs at random, nor do I carry my pistol while riding. But as I set here with a bleeding hole in my leg(blood thinners are awesome) waiting for a trip to urgent care for a tetanus booster and probably a stitch, my thoughts are what kind of trouble would I have been in if I had been carrying and shot the thing.
    Trail head signs clearly state 'leashed at all times' and anybody who thinks they have a good trail dog that acts like that should probably be .... well whatever.
    Guys dog slipped his grasp and bit me a 4th time for good measure..
    Completely rode off in shock trying to get away from the situation, never got the guys info. Now I have to hope it had its current shots.
    No sympathy for people losing track of their 'good trail dogs'. If it was a good trail dog it wouldn't be beyond gone and nowhere to be found for hours/days.
    Problems with dog bites include absolutely nasty bacteria that lives in their mouth, this has caused bad infections in people. And then there's rabies. You don't know if a dog is infected when it comes up to bite you. For a small agile target like a dog, I'd suggest bear-spray. Plus you can spray it and it won't kill the human(s), unlike if a dog is gnawing down on your riding partner or a hiker. If we (in Alaska) go way out in the bush alone, then a gun starts to make sense and just about anything we would ever possibly have to defend against would be a large target, many times bigger than your average dog. I have a gun for such occasions, but I bring bear spray on rides because it makes a lot more sense.
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattallica View Post
    Interestingly enough I went for a ride today from one trail head to the next. When I exited the woods into the second trail head an unleashed trail dog flat out attacked me and bit me 4 times. The owner trying to restrain it in the car before it finally got between his legs and made it across the lot to me. The third bite the dog was actually hanging off my thigh by its teeth before I punched it in the head and the owner grabbed it!
    I don't condone shooting dogs at random, nor do I carry my pistol while riding. But as I set here with a bleeding hole in my leg(blood thinners are awesome) waiting for a trip to urgent care for a tetanus booster and probably a stitch, my thoughts are what kind of trouble would I have been in if I had been carrying and shot the thing.
    Trail head signs clearly state 'leashed at all times' and anybody who thinks they have a good trail dog that acts like that should probably be .... well whatever.
    Guys dog slipped his grasp and bit me a 4th time for good measure..
    Completely rode off in shock trying to get away from the situation, never got the guys info. Now I have to hope it had its current shots.
    No sympathy for people losing track of their 'good trail dogs'. If it was a good trail dog it wouldn't be beyond gone and nowhere to be found for hours/days.
    And the dog owner could not be bothered enough to check on you and see if you were okay? Give you information about his mutt’s vaccinations? What a sod.


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  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattallica View Post
    Interestingly enough I went for a ride today from one trail head to the next. When I exited the woods into the second trail head an unleashed trail dog flat out attacked me and bit me 4 times. The owner trying to restrain it in the car before it finally got between his legs and made it across the lot to me. The third bite the dog was actually hanging off my thigh by its teeth before I punched it in the head and the owner grabbed it!
    I don't condone shooting dogs at random, nor do I carry my pistol while riding. But as I set here with a bleeding hole in my leg(blood thinners are awesome) waiting for a trip to urgent care for a tetanus booster and probably a stitch, my thoughts are what kind of trouble would I have been in if I had been carrying and shot the thing.
    Trail head signs clearly state 'leashed at all times' and anybody who thinks they have a good trail dog that acts like that should probably be .... well whatever.
    Guys dog slipped his grasp and bit me a 4th time for good measure..
    Completely rode off in shock trying to get away from the situation, never got the guys info. Now I have to hope it had its current shots.
    No sympathy for people losing track of their 'good trail dogs'. If it was a good trail dog it wouldn't be beyond gone and nowhere to be found for hours/days.
    I'd get a lawyer and sue the guy.
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  51. #151
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    Its not always people that kill domestic animals...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3wb-BVWHDM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja View Post
    Yes, at the river mouth, past the bridge. The original story from the owner was that the dog was lost on Ridge Trail. There is a Ridge Trail in the Pub to Pub trail system & it sounded like that's where the dog was lost as the owner was asking people walking in that park to keep an eye out. There is also a Ridge Trail in the system upstream at the top end of Glenmore. It makes more sense that the owner was mountain biking at the top of Glenmore but maybe he wasn't a serious biker and was just cruising the trail down by the shore. There's nothing to stop a dog from washing down from the upper trails though.

    If the dog was shot on the lower trail I would have heard it. I'm in the RV park across the river. I can hear people talking on those trails.
    Thanks for the reply. I had heard the story on the local news radio. The news reported the dog got lost on Smugglers so that’s what caught my attention, but with news reports who knows if it’s accurate or not. I haven’t heard anything new from any news reports or Facebook posts (although I’ve heard rumours) so who knows what really happened or where. The River is flowing so the dog definitely could wash down.

    I’ve biked the Glenmore trails but not the pub to pub trail, only hiked that so I automatically thought the Oyster mtb trails and didn’t consider the other trails.

    And I agree, even if the person who did it was in the right, I could see them being vilified. Some very strong opinions on both sides. Anyways, thanks again for the replies, it’s good to hear from someone local on what was going on.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post
    Its not always people that kill domestic animals...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3wb-BVWHDM
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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    I've witnessed this twice. A buddy of mine is really not a fan of dogs, and they sense the that. Both times, I'm in the lead as we approach the dog and owner, and the owner says "he's friendly" or "he doesn't bite." Dog runs right past me and bites my friend's leg.
    Given your friend's hatred he probably stared it down without realizing it. Dogs take prolonged eye contact as a form of aggression.
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  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    1.) No one knows if a hunter shot the dog.
    2.) In Wisconsin roughly 600,000 deer are taken in the yearly hunt. Without hunting the population would quickly be subject to starvation and become more of a public hazard as vehicle collisions would increase.
    3.) Many people are fed by hunters. The meat is "organic", lean, and hormone free.

    As one that engages in both activities, I can see the ecological benefits of hunting, not so much for mountain biking. Looking at it objectively, mountain biking is basically for the self gratification of the rider while often damaging the trails (over use, riding in muddy conditions and etc). Still, I care about people that do both activities responsibly.
    1). The post I was replying to was talking about hunting. I could not care less about peoples's "right" to own guns, either.

    2). There are too many deer, because the state encourages population growth to support the income that hunting provides. The lack of natural predators is the main reason for overpopulation, so maybe hunters are a solution to a problem caused by hunters...

    3). I said "sport hunters". Of course animals must die before people can eat them, and I like to eat them. However, let's not pretend that many hunters don't really care or need the meat and just like to shoot things. I have a major problem with those people, and many of those people carry. People have proven an inability to be responsible, and I don't see how anybody can seriously argue that an irresponsible mountain biker is just as dangerous to society as an irresponsible gun owner.

    No need to reply to this. My opinion will not be changed by yours, nor do I expect yours to be changed by mine. I just wanted to make it clear that not everybody is tolerant of guns or the people that own them. If you have a gun, you are responsible for that gun, just like a dog owner is responsible for their dog. If you use a gun, you should be held accountable. Whether or not the person in question used theirs responsibly or not may never be known, but we all know that many animals and people are killed for little reason other than for the enjoyment of some twisted psycho.

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    First of all, dogs should be on a leach all the time.

    People who don’t put their dogs on a leach poses potential lethal danger to innocent people.

    It is silly that someone was forced to defend himself with a gun because a dog owner let his animal walk free. It could have have ended up badly for the guy who shot the dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Problems with dog bites include absolutely nasty bacteria that lives in their mouth, this has caused bad infections in people. And then there's rabies. You don't know if a dog is infected when it comes up to bite you. For a small agile target like a dog, I'd suggest bear-spray. Plus you can spray it and it won't kill the human(s), unlike if a dog is gnawing down on your riding partner or a hiker. If we (in Alaska) go way out in the bush alone, then a gun starts to make sense and just about anything we would ever possibly have to defend against would be a large target, many times bigger than your average dog. I have a gun for such occasions, but I bring bear spray on rides because it makes a lot more sense.
    Yeah, I figured the gun was an automatic bad idea, crash and it accidentally discharges and other reasons. The bear spray kinda falls in the same category, don't need to blast myself in a crash. I read that a safety air horn can be effective. I think that's the route to go.
    As for my case, I ended up with tetanus, amoxicillin and rabies shots the day after Christmas. I posted my experience on the local MTB facebook page. Within a few hours I had the guys name, pic of the dog and statements from multiple people that were also attacked by the same dog at 2 different parks. Information was passed on to authorities and I believe the dog will be put down.
    The owner actually stepped forward on facebook and provided vaccination records so I should be able to stop the follow up rabies shots.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post

    If you have a gun, you are responsible for that gun, just like a dog owner is responsible for their dog. If you use a gun, you should be held accountable.
    Ah. Personal responsibility of the individual. It's so rare as to nearly be a novel concept. A bit like common sense, really. If people actually held to such things, news networks would go broke, and governments would be nigh on unnecessary.

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    Isn't blind speculation such fun? :0)

    Even in gun-hating Great Britain, if a dog is running loose on farm land the farmer can shoot it.

    Lot of blaming and speciation but in my opinion the blame starts at a point that is not speculation. The guy lost his dog. If you own a pet you have a responsibility to keep it under control and how can you do that if you don't know where the hell it is?

    My guess is that he just kept riding while fido had stopped for whatever reason and by the time he noticed the dog wasn't there the dog had got lost looking for him. But whatever the scenario, he lost his dog and that's his fault. The dog could've starved, fallen in the river, been eaten by a wild animal or hitched to Nebraska and started a new life. What happened to it is in some ways imaterial. Blame lies with the owner who did not take proper care of his pet.

    Boo hoo it's dead but if you don't take responsibility for your pets my sympathy is limited. Loose a child in the woods and see how long it takes before you're being asked some uncomfortable questions.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zest28 View Post
    It is silly that someone was forced to defend himself with a gun because a dog owner let his animal walk free. It could have have ended up badly for the guy who shot the dog.


    It's silly that you would come to that conclusion given the limited amount of info available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    It's silly that you would come to that conclusion given the limited amount of info available.
    It is by far the most likely scenario. Especially when the dog is alone and hungry ....

    And this shouldn't have happened in the first place if the owner kept the dogs on a leach which every dog owner should do as these animals do pose a risk to other people.

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zest28 View Post
    It is by far the most likely scenario. Especially when the dog is alone and hungry ....


    That doesn't seem like normal behavior for a lost dog ime, and in my opinion that's about the least likely scenario.

    In any case, you don't know snd neither do I.
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  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zest28 View Post
    It is by far the most likely scenario.
    I'm glad your not a detective.

    You're not a detective are you? :0.

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    Phil Lesh is great and though a dog he's never kept on a leash also no one would think he's a leach.
    A bit of Dead non-trivia this morning. Now why did that come to mind...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    Phil Lesh is great and though a dog he's never kept on a leash also no one would think he's a leach.
    Which language is that?

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    1). The post I was replying to was talking about hunting. I could not care less about peoples's "right" to own guns, either.

    2). There are too many deer, because the state encourages population growth to support the income that hunting provides. The lack of natural predators is the main reason for overpopulation, so maybe hunters are a solution to a problem caused by hunters...

    3). I said "sport hunters". Of course animals must die before people can eat them, and I like to eat them. However, let's not pretend that many hunters don't really care or need the meat and just like to shoot things. I have a major problem with those people, and many of those people carry. People have proven an inability to be responsible, and I don't see how anybody can seriously argue that an irresponsible mountain biker is just as dangerous to society as an irresponsible gun owner.

    No need to reply to this. My opinion will not be changed by yours, nor do I expect yours to be changed by mine. I just wanted to make it clear that not everybody is tolerant of guns or the people that own them. If you have a gun, you are responsible for that gun, just like a dog owner is responsible for their dog. If you use a gun, you should be held accountable. Whether or not the person in question used theirs responsibly or not may never be known, but we all know that many animals and people are killed for little reason other than for the enjoyment of some twisted psycho.
    I have to ask how does the state encourage deer to mate?
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  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I have to ask how does the state encourage deer to mate?
    Give out free condoms but put pinholes in them?

    Knew a guy who put pinholes in his big brother's condoms.

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Give out free condoms but put pinholes in them?

    Knew a guy who put pinholes in his big brother's condoms.
    That's the one brother.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I have to ask how does the state encourage deer to mate?
    If this lady has her way she’ll get them to move the deer crossing signs to keep them safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    1). The post I was replying to was talking about hunting. I could not care less about peoples's "right" to own guns, either.

    2). There are too many deer, because the state encourages population growth to support the income that hunting provides. The lack of natural predators is the main reason for overpopulation, so maybe hunters are a solution to a problem caused by hunters...

    3). I said "sport hunters". Of course animals must die before people can eat them, and I like to eat them. However, let's not pretend that many hunters don't really care or need the meat and just like to shoot things. I have a major problem with those people, and many of those people carry. People have proven an inability to be responsible, and I don't see how anybody can seriously argue that an irresponsible mountain biker is just as dangerous to society as an irresponsible gun owner.

    No need to reply to this. My opinion will not be changed by yours, nor do I expect yours to be changed by mine. I just wanted to make it clear that not everybody is tolerant of guns or the people that own them. If you have a gun, you are responsible for that gun, just like a dog owner is responsible for their dog. If you use a gun, you should be held accountable. Whether or not the person in question used theirs responsibly or not may never be known, but we all know that many animals and people are killed for little reason other than for the enjoyment of some twisted psycho.

    States do not encourage animal population growth. They do manage population. They LIMIT hunting to maintain a healthy herd population. That is different than encouraging population growth. The only thing that I know that they actively breed for introduction into the wild are fish...again to maintain a healthy population.

    Yes, there are some that hunt for trophies, some that hunt for meat and some that hunt to remove a threat (protect a crop or herd). It is a small minority (and sick) that kills just for the sake of killing.

    It's funny (sad) that people want to shut down discussion in order to stay entrenched in their opinion. You never know what you may learn. I, for one, had no idea that some people are intolerant of guns.

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    It is a small minority (and sick) that kills just for the sake of killing.


    I'm not sure it's that small of a minority, lots of people around here hunt coyote, lions, javelina, etc. that are no threat to them and with no intention to eat the meat.
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  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I'm not sure it's that small of a minority, lots of people around here hunt coyote, lions, javelinas, etc. that are no threat to them and with no intention to eat the meat.
    There is a reason to hunt those beyond being a "thrill kill". Each one of those can pose a threat to one's property or livestock. Ironically javelinas can be a threat to unleashed dogs.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    There is a reason to hunt those beyond being a "thrill kill". Each one of those can pose a threat to one's property or livestock. Ironically javelinas can be a threat to unleashed dogs.


    1) It's very debatable how much of a threat to livestock these animals are (different thread)

    2) Most of the people hunting these animals don't own ranches and have no livestock to defend.

    3) As mentioned numerous times in this thread it's the owner's responsibility to keep their dogs leashed so if their dog gets gored by a javelina it's their own damn fault.
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  74. #174
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    Deer population is increasing rapidly where I live. One got hit just along the road from my house, that's a first. It's not unusual to see three or four of them together on the verges. Go back ten years or so you rarely saw any.

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Deer population is increasing rapidly where I live. One got hit just along the road from my house, that's a first. It's not unusual to see three or four of them together on the verges. Go back ten years or so you rarely saw any.


    The roads are littered with deer carcasses around here. I think deer are the deadliest animal in North America, cows are right up there too.
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  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    The roads are littered with deer carcasses around here. I think deer are the deadliest animal in North America, cows are right up there too.
    I don’t know, I almost slammed into a herd of elk last night going 50MPH right down the street from my residence. If I didn’t see them in time I doubt I’d be posting this right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  77. #177
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    We just need more wolves and lions.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I don’t know, I almost slammed into a herd of elk last night going 50MPH right down the street from my residence. If I didn’t see them in time I doubt I’d be posting this right now.
    50 MPH is ridiculous. Someone should should tell those Elk to slow the F down. Maybe they should be leashed too!
    No dig no whine

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    50 MPH is ridiculous. Someone should should tell those Elk to slow the F down. Maybe they should be leashed too!
    No doubt. Fastest damn Elk I’ve ever seen. Getting them to take to a leash may be asking too much though.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  80. #180
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    This topic is one I take to heart. I often ride with my dog off leash. During hunting season, and often in the off season, he wears an orange vest. He listens very well but there's always that unknown. We've come around turns and surprised deer, he'll take a couple steps to chase but as soon as I command him he stops in his tracks and continues with me. If he didn't stick to me like glue I wouldn't have him out there off leash.
    This is a tragic story but totally on the owner. Unless of course it was just someone being a dick!

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    The roads are littered with deer carcasses around here. I think deer are the deadliest animal in North America, cows are right up there too.
    Cows? You mean heart attack from high cholesterol from eating too much beef?! Surely you jest.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    All true, but it still doesn't make the guy who shot it any less of an @sshole. imo.

    Dogs like to chase game. If more than one is involved, they can run the animal to death. Where I grew up it was considered acceptable to shoot a loose dog chasing deer.

    Not that I've ever done it, but I get the reasoning why.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Cows? You mean heart attack from high cholesterol from eating too much beef?! Surely you jest.

    Well I wasn't considering all the deaths from clogged arteries but that's a good point. I was talking about fatal collisions.
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  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Dogs like to chase game. If more than one is involved, they can run the animal to death. Where I grew up it was considered acceptable to shoot a loose dog chasing deer.

    Not that I've ever done it, but I get the reasoning why.


    Right, but why do you think this particular dog was chasing deer? Funny how most people in this thread seem to think the worst of the dog and the best of people when ime it's usually the other way around.

    Also weird how it's socially acceptable to shoot a dog because it's chasing a deer that someone is planning on shooting anyway. People are strange, and I'd still consider a person who shoots a dog just because it's chasing a deer an @sshole but that's only my opinion.
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  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattallica View Post
    Yeah, I figured the gun was an automatic bad idea, crash and it accidentally discharges and other reasons.
    There are a few ways to carry in the woods where the gun will not discharge no matter what happens to you. I like the Hill People Gear Runner's Kit bag, but a pocket holster in a zippered pocket would be just as secure, if not as quick to deploy.
    https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/.../1/ProductID/2

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    There are a few ways to carry in the woods where the gun will not discharge no matter what happens to you. I like the Hill People Gear Runner's Kit bag, but a pocket holster in a zippered pocket would be just as secure, if not as quick to deploy.
    https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/.../1/ProductID/2
    The overwhelming majority of modern handguns are designed to be "drop safe", meaning they won't accidentally discharge in the event the firearm is dropped.
    California has a law requiring handguns be drop safe and manufacturers realizing CA's market share, accommodate this State law across their lineup.

    If I were carrying 'strong-side hip' while riding, I'd be more concerned about a hip injury in the event of a crash.

    If you're gonna carry, I like your Hill People Gear recommendation. They make good stuff.

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    Last edited by Coal-Cracker; 5 Days Ago at 08:33 AM.

  87. #187
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    Mountain Biker's dog shot while out on the trails

    Not saying this is right, but on my first deer hunting trip I was told to shoot any dogs I saw in the woods. I laughed but was told “Boy, I’m not joking. You shoot any dog or fox you see on my property or you won’t hunt on my land again. Wild dogs chase deer and foxes kill chickens and pheasants.” The farmer was more concerned about putting food on the table. I’ve lived in urban and rural environments and both have different perspectives and needs that blanket legislation regarding hunting and guns will cause hardship for specific parties.

    Of course, the norm is to try not to see another’s perspective, even if ultimately you don’t agree to it but to name call and refuse to compromise.


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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    Wild dogs
    At least in the part of the country I live in, this is not a thing.
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  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    At least in the part of the country I live in, this is not a thing.


    I know, where are these places?

    You know what accounts for wasted venison? Poor hunters and all drivers, not lost dogs.
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  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I know, where are these places?

    You know what accounts for wasted venison? Poor hunters and all drivers, not lost dogs.
    From an 2008 article on it. https://www.hcn.org/issues/371/17716?b_start:int=1#body
    "Wildlife Services -- the federal agency responsible for predator control -- estimates that more than 33 million feral and free-roaming dogs run loose in the United States, biting 5 million people each year and killing about 10 to 15, usually small children. In rural areas, feral and loose pet dogs often form packs that chase down and kill deer, elk, chickens, goats and even cattle."

    2012:
    https://www.salon.com/2012/01/14/the...of_feral_dogs/

    More recent:
    https://www.npr.org/2017/12/29/57459...-advocate-says

    University study on the issue:
    https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/v...icwdm_usdanwrc
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  91. #191
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    Dog packs are definitely a thing where I live. Local idiots intent on living an imagined urban, gangsta lifestyle, get a dog, usually some form of pitbull. They quickly realize the commitment a dog requires, and their solution is to abandon them along a forested road.

    I know a jogger that was attacked by multiple (stray) dogs. This attack resulted in over 90 stitches to his face, shoulders, and arms.

    I've seen packs of dogs while biking local "quad" trails, though thankfully, I've never been threatened. I did start carrying bear spray after the (before mentioned) jogger was attacked.

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  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattallica View Post
    Interestingly enough I went for a ride today from one trail head to the next. When I exited the woods into the second trail head an unleashed trail dog flat out attacked me and bit me 4 times. The owner trying to restrain it in the car before it finally got between his legs and made it across the lot to me. The third bite the dog was actually hanging off my thigh by its teeth before I punched it in the head and the owner grabbed it!
    I don't condone shooting dogs at random, nor do I carry my pistol while riding. But as I set here with a bleeding hole in my leg(blood thinners are awesome) waiting for a trip to urgent care for a tetanus booster and probably a stitch, my thoughts are what kind of trouble would I have been in if I had been carrying and shot the thing.
    Trail head signs clearly state 'leashed at all times' and anybody who thinks they have a good trail dog that acts like that should probably be .... well whatever.
    Guys dog slipped his grasp and bit me a 4th time for good measure..
    Completely rode off in shock trying to get away from the situation, never got the guys info. Now I have to hope it had its current shots.
    No sympathy for people losing track of their 'good trail dogs'. If it was a good trail dog it wouldn't be beyond gone and nowhere to be found for hours/days.
    Holy hell, man! What a story. Yikes!

    Get well soon, hope that dog had its shots.

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Dog packs are definitely a thing where I live. Local idiots intent on living an imagined urban, gangsta lifestyle, get a dog, usually some form of pitbull. They quickly realize the commitment a dog requires, and their solution is to abandon them along a forested road.

    I know a jogger that was attacked by multiple (stray) dogs. This attack resulted in over 90 stitches to his face, shoulders, and arms.

    I've seen packs of dogs while biking local "quad" trails, though thankfully, I've never been threatened. I did start carrying bear spray after the (before mentioned) jogger was attacked.
    That's ****ed up. Sounds all sorts of third-worldy.
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  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal-Cracker View Post
    Dog packs are definitely a thing where I live. Local idiots intent on living an imagined urban, gangsta lifestyle, get a dog, usually some form of pitbull. They quickly realize the commitment a dog requires, and their solution is to abandon them along a forested road.

    I know a jogger that was attacked by multiple (stray) dogs. This attack resulted in over 90 stitches to his face, shoulders, and arms.

    I've seen packs of dogs while biking local "quad" trails, though thankfully, I've never been threatened. I did start carrying bear spray after the (before mentioned) jogger was attacked.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Dogs kill about 28 times more people in the US annually than bears or sharks.

    The vast majority of dogs are good, but an ill-trained or abused dog can be a danger.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCheesehead View Post
    Dogs kill about 28 times more people in the US annually than bears or sharks.

    The vast majority of dogs are good, but an ill-trained or abused dog can be a danger.

    Agreed, but deer kill about 10 times more people annually than dogs. Be careful out there.
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  96. #196
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    Over half of fatal dog bites are inflicted on children under 10 years old, and 60% of those are due to a family dog in their own yard. Really sad.
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  97. #197
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    Livestock kills more people than dogs or any wild animals.

    Watch out for cows!!
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  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Livestock kills more people than dogs or any wild animals.
    Yeah, but old age kills more people than livestock!

    Don't get old, or you're fecked.

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    Funny how people went into the weeds with ridiculous crap once it was point out feral dogs are an issue.

    In the end no one but the shooter was there and knows- could very well have been justified.

    As to the comments about if the shooter was in the right why not come forward- are you stupid? Seriously, you can be in the right and still be sued and that could be a huge financial drain. Why would anyone in their right mind open themselves up for that over a dog.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Funny how people went into the weeds with ridiculous crap once it was point out feral dogs are an issue.
    I truly didn't realize that most of the rest of the country outside New England is practically overrun with packs of wild dogs attacking people by the millions. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard this is a such a huge issue for the rest of you guys.
    My condolences.
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