Results 1 to 71 of 71

Thread: Manual Machine

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491

    Manual Machine

    What are your thoughts on them?

    I would love to hear the good and the bad. I'm thinking about building my own.
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33
    well the good is you can manual without consequence. the bad is (in my opinion) there not very realistic. short but informative.

  3. #3
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by merk20 View Post
    well the good is you can manual without consequence. the bad is (in my opinion) there not very realistic. short but informative.
    I've never seen one in person but from what I have seen I agree with what you said. Not realistic to actual riding.

    For those unfamiliar with what they are.

    https://sandiegomountainbikeskills.c...anual-machine/

    Manual Machine-img_0333.jpg

    Manual Machine-img_0332.jpg

    Manual Machine-img_0334.jpg

    Manual Machine-img_0335.jpg

    Manual Machine-img_0336.jpg

    Manual Machine-img_0337.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  4. #4
    Pro Crastinator
    Reputation: .WestCoastHucker.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,258
    practice is the real manual machine...


  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8,250
    New winter project!

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    New winter project!
    lol...
    Yes it is..

    I will go back forth on manual to learn and spinner to keep the pedals moving.
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

  7. #7
    Upcyclist
    Reputation: Cornfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,015
    Someone needs to get an old treadmill and build a manual machine on it!
    Cool heads prevail

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    710
    I've never used one but I can see where it can help learn the motion to get the front wheel up without looping out. But I don't think it will help with actually learning how to manual. Two things I think are essential to learning it is finding the balance point and learning to use the rear brakes without thinking. Both of which would be difficult to learn on a machine. Another problem is a machine like that won't allow your bike to move laterally side to side as you're pulling up, so you will never master the motion correctly. The biggest problem I had learning the manual was to pull up evenly even the slightest unevenness on one side of the body will send you looping around in a circle.

    Instead of using a machine I suggest finding a nice parking lot and pulling up on your front wheel to the point you're about to loop out and then slamming on the rear brake before you actually loop out repetitively until you get comfortable with your balance point and using your rear brakes. Doing that will actually teach you the first steps to how to manual.

  9. #9
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    I've never used one but I can see where it can help learn the motion to get the front wheel up without looping out. But I don't think it will help with actually learning how to manual. Two things I think are essential to learning it is finding the balance point and learning to use the rear brakes without thinking. Both of which would be difficult to learn on a machine. Another problem is a machine like that won't allow your bike to move laterally side to side as you're pulling up, so you will never master the motion correctly. The biggest problem I had learning the manual was to pull up evenly even the slightest unevenness on one side of the body will send you looping around in a circle.

    Instead of using a machine I suggest finding a nice parking lot and pulling up on your front wheel to the point you're about to loop out and then slamming on the rear brake before you actually loop out repetitively until you get comfortable with your balance point and using your rear brakes. Doing that will actually teach you the first steps to how to manual.
    Id shorten that and just say its a piece of crap that gives one false hope and will take up a lot of space.

    I guess if you live on a 40 acre ranch you could build one behind the barn where it will end up being used three times and then sit there rotting into the earth for the next 25 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Id shorten that and just say its a piece of crap that gives one false hope and will take up a lot of space.

    I guess if you live on a 40 acre ranch you could build one behind the barn where it will end up being used three times and then sit there rotting into the earth for the next 25 years.
    +1.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,639
    I think it could be helpful, I've seen skills coaches that hold students in the right position to let them know what it feels like and to get them used to being in what is (to most) a very unnatural position on the bike.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,067
    Only on MTBR... ride your damn bike if you want to learn to manual.

  13. #13
    Short-Change-Hero
    Reputation: gregnash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,460
    Seen a couple in person and that is probably the more complex version pictured above. Really it is meant for nothing more than understanding the muscle memory to get things going. For me there is no where that you can do this on the trail reliably to learn the motions, you are either in a flow downhill or climbing. Flats are located on bike paths and streets and there really are no school tracks to test it out on or flat grass.

    So yes, getting on your bike and practicing is the best way to learn however if you can't get enough realestate to actually practice on the trail then what? Are you just supposed to never learn? And really most people with even small houses will have enough spare lumber laying around that they can make one OR better yet can go grab a couple of pallets from their local auto parts store, grocery store, hardware store, or just about anywhere and make it for next to nothing.

  14. #14
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think it could be helpful, I've seen skills coaches that hold students in the right position to let them know what it feels like and to get them used to being in what is (to most) a very unnatural position on the bike.
    A bunch of ridiculous hate for something nobody here has ever tried (and few have even seen).

    It's just a tool to help. Obviously you're not going to be able to learn everything you need to know on one of these, and then be able to go nail a manual on the trail without additional practice.

    Yes, it does help getting comfortable in a position that feels very unnatural at first. It does help you feel where the balance point is. Obviously you have to adjust the strap on this one correctly. It can also help you rapidly repeat the motion you need to use to get the front wheel up. True, it does not help you with side-to-side balance and control. It's not supposed to. It controls those elements to help you learn OTHER aspects more quickly.

    Only on MTBR...where people tell you to learn something complex by telling you to just do that complex thing.

  15. #15
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    So I guess we are supposed to be tricked into believing that this lady on this contraption will be proficient in the art of manuals in no time.

    And whats worse is shes been duped into thinking so. Shes in a for a world of hurt once she tries this in the real world.

    Manual Machine-e5d1e05e-aaf7-4f5d-8fb8-41a74fab2f45.jpeg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  16. #16
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    So I guess we are supposed to be tricked into believing that this lady on this contraption will be proficient in the art of manuals in no time.

    And whats worse is shes been duped into thinking so. Shes in a for a world of hurt once she tries this in the real world.
    So even though we simplify OTHER things in order to learn them, doing so for manuals is the wrong way?

    Throw that toddler on a 2 wheeler pedal bike from day one! No holding the saddle for them! No training wheels! No balance bike! Let them eat $hit until they get it!
    Can't do advanced calculus in 1st grade? That's okay. You don't need arithmetic, or geometry, or algebra. You'll get it if you try hard enough.
    Doctors should learn to do surgery on live patients. No artificial models or cadavers for them to practice on. That's just stupid.

  17. #17
    Upcyclist
    Reputation: Cornfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    A bunch of ridiculous hate for something nobody here has ever tried (and few have even seen).

    It's just a tool to help. Obviously you're not going to be able to learn everything you need to know on one of these, and then be able to go nail a manual on the trail without additional practice.

    Yes, it does help getting comfortable in a position that feels very unnatural at first. It does help you feel where the balance point is. Obviously you have to adjust the strap on this one correctly. It can also help you rapidly repeat the motion you need to use to get the front wheel up. True, it does not help you with side-to-side balance and control. It's not supposed to. It controls those elements to help you learn OTHER aspects more quickly.

    Only on MTBR...where people tell you to learn something complex by telling you to just do that complex thing.
    This 100%!

    Now where's that old treadmill...
    Cool heads prevail

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    8
    I wish something like this worked. I can wheelie over 1/4 mile (length of my street). I can go fast or less then walking pace. I can make a u-turn in a 2 lane rode on the back wheel. But even after watching dozens of videos and practicing half the summer, I can manual maybe 6 foot at a time.
    This is on a DJ bike or my 24 BMX that are supposed to be easy to manual.

  19. #19
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    So even though we simplify OTHER things in order to learn them, doing so for manuals is the wrong way?
    Yes, because giving one a sense of false hope on such a dangerous move can turn into a traumatic event. This machine / contraption does nothing more than hold the bike upright and stable without letting the rider go over backwards. Nothing compared to a real world manual. Comparing toddlers on a two wheeled bike and pushing them then releasing until they eat shit. A great way to start but the crashes are not nearly as traumatic compared to flipping over backwards in the wheelie position. Landing on your tailbone possibly breaking it and smacking your head straight back with serious impact or landing with arms extended backwards to break your fall [which is the natural instinct in such a situation] and landing on your wrists. This kind of crash happens in a millisecond and is a very traumatic event. Nothing compared to going along and losing your balance and tipping over. Not really a comparison in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  20. #20
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Isn't it? Even without one of these, I looped out hard when practicing manuals for the first time when I suddenly nailed the motion to get my front wheel up and wasn't ready for it.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Everything complex we learn, we start off small. We eliminate as many complicating factors as possible to learn the basics and slowly add them back in once we are ready to progress.

    There is rarely a single way of learning something complex, and for some people, certain methods click better than others. Who are you to say that this is terrible? Ever actually used one?



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Isn't it? Even without one of these, I looped out hard when practicing manuals for the first time when I suddenly nailed the motion to get my front wheel up and wasn't ready for it.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.

    Everything complex we learn, we start off small. We eliminate as many complicating factors as possible to learn the basics and slowly add them back in once we are ready to progress.

    There is rarely a single way of learning something complex, and for some people, certain methods click better than others. Who are you to say that this is terrible? Ever actually used one?



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    "I have no idea what I'm talking about".

    Seriously? I grew up riding motocross and mountain biking. Wheelies are in my blood. I've ridden wheelies on bikes and motorcycles since the age of 7. I have the shattered wrist joint to prove how traumatic an event it is to go over backwards in a hurry, It happens in a millisecond. I don't agree with this contraption duplicating real world manuals. Giving one a false hope on such a dangerous move with serious consequences and injury being imminent is not what I'd call a learning tool. Go out and practice on your bike if doing a manual is so important. You'll learn quicker and be a lot less likely to hurt yourself. Going from this contraption to a real world manual, sorry but it's not the same. In my opinion after practicing on this contraption you would get in the real world and think you've got this very hard move down. It only takes one bad loop out to send you in a world of hurt.

    No, I've never actually used one. I stated that in my very first post with photos for all to see what this thing is.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  22. #22
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Harold, I'd like to opolgize if I came across like a dick. Nothing towards you. I've had a migraine all day with head cold symptoms coming on.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491
    Hey Harold, I agree with everything you have said. Too many positive to quote.

    Hey DIRTJUNKIE, I'm saying you were being a dick like you just mentioned your last post, but the things you said did stop me from replying to anything... I was kinda scared to reply in the thread I started.. lol

    DIRTJUNKIE, without a doubt, I do not expect to know how to manual from this device. I'm hoping to get the basic beginner part of the manual.

    It will all come down to practicing with or without the device. I live Michigan, and its cold and snowy out. I'm actually done riding for a few months.

    I figure I can't goof with it while I spin. I hope spinning is ok with you since it's not actually on a rode outside?
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

  24. #24
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by HAMP View Post

    DIRTJUNKIE, without a doubt, I do not expect to know how to manual from this device. I'm hoping to get the basic beginner part of the manual.
    I was just trying to warn anyone trying this device not to get false hopes and end up in a world of hurt once you get on in the real world of manuals. I've had a lot of injuries from extreme sports like ours. Broken neck, sternum, ribs, scapula, ankle, shattered wrist joint. Numerous soft tissue traumatic injuries, concussions. I must say, the shattered wrist joint was towards the top of the most painful and it being 10 years since, it's a lifelong injury with 20% loss in wrist movement. The wrist joint injury was from practicing wheelies. Perfecting a manual is harder and carries the same possible penalties with failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  25. #25
    Upcyclist
    Reputation: Cornfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,015
    One just needs to go to the U-toobs to see what these things are all about and what they can do for a rider. I watched the one below for a bit last night and haven't had time to look at others. All I get from the MM is that it gives you muscle memory of how to pull into a manual, which I think could be useful.

    Cool heads prevail

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I was just trying to warn anyone trying this device not to get false hopes and end up in a world of hurt once you get on in the real world of manuals. I've had a lot of injuries from extreme sports like ours. Broken neck, sternum, ribs, scapula, ankle, shattered wrist joint. Numerous soft tissue traumatic injuries, concussions. I must say, the shattered wrist joint was towards the top of the most painful and it being 10 years since, it's a lifelong injury with 20% loss in wrist movement. The wrist joint injury was from practicing wheelies. Perfecting a manual is harder and carries the same possible penalties with failure.
    Cool!!! This reply shows that you meant well. Sometimes the real message gets lost with misunderstanding.
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

  27. #27
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    One just needs to go to the U-toobs to see what these things are all about and what they can do for a rider. I watched the one below for a bit last night and haven't had time to look at others. All I get from the MM is that it gives you muscle memory of how to pull into a manual, which I think could be useful.

    After watching that video, which I faintly remember watching a few months ago. It does seem like it would help to learn in some aspects. Muscle memory and balance. Just be forewarned of and cautious of the real world differences once you try it in the real world. Great video and very personable teacher.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    10,639
    A manual machine on a treadmill would be brilliant!
    I brake for stinkbugs

  29. #29
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    After watching that video, which I faintly remember watching a few months ago. It does seem like it would help to learn in some aspects. Muscle memory and balance. Just be forewarned of and cautious of the real world differences once you try it in the real world. Great video and very personable teacher.
    There is another vid that is older of a kid using one his dad built in his basement. I have a difficult time finding it, but his had no strap to hold the front down. Instead, dad put a crash pad like you use in bouldering behind it. I built one based on that design, but do not have a crash pad, so I have not used it.

    As you said, there are nearly infinite ways for us to injure ourselves on our bikes. Stuff ranging from stupid and careless mistakes in lame situations to attempting truly dangerous things without the skills. Any manual machine can add risk of injury if you are not careful, but there are smart ways to mitigate most of that risk. The least risky (at least from an injury perspective) option would be to never ride a bike. But that is not why we are here, is it?

    Methinks you should go chill with some strong medications until your migraine has cleared up.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ray Lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,290
    "A bunch of ridiculous hate for something nobody here has ever tried (and few have even seen)"

    usually how half of the comments go on this site... really weird, so many people seem to hate change, anything new and especially different .... oddly if it was expensive and the marketing done by a bearded dude in a flat brim with "sick tats" they would be lining up to buy it (obviously made from steal or carbon depending on the target group) LOL

    Would not say she can manual but I was able to teach my wife how to get the front wheel up for a few feet without crank power or jerking the bars by standing behind her basically acting as her manual machine... seems like this would teach you the balance point (or at least show you how far you can go before looping out.)

  31. #31
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Lee View Post
    "A bunch of ridiculous hate for something nobody here has ever tried (and few have even seen)"

    usually how half of the comments go on this site... really weird, so many people seem to hate change, anything new and especially different .... oddly if it was expensive and the marketing done by a bearded dude in a flat brim with "sick tats" they would be lining up to buy it (obviously made from steal or carbon depending on the target group) LOL
    Maybe my posts were taken wrong. I don't hate what I've never tried. I was simply stating that while it may be a tool to learn some skills needed for mastering a manual. It's not the same as learning in the real world. I was simply warning those that try it to be aware and cautious going from this contraption to real world riding. There's a big difference. A false sense of what you think may be skills to master a manual on this contraption may quickly turn sour and slam you on your back in real world riding, that is all.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  32. #32
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I was simply warning those that try it to be aware and cautious going from this contraption to real world riding. There's a big difference. A false sense of what you think may be skills to master a manual on this contraption may quickly turn sour and slam you on your back in real world riding, that is all.
    Nobody ever said this tool would teach you everything you needed to know to manual. Nobody here was even suggesting they might develop a false sense of their skills from using something like this.

    It just lets people take baby steps towards learning manuals.



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  33. #33
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Nobody ever said this tool would teach you everything you needed to know to manual. Nobody here was even suggesting they might develop a false sense of their skills from using something like this.

    It just lets people take baby steps towards learning manuals.



    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Well then, may I at least suggest they buy a how to manual first?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  34. #34
    I didn't do it
    Reputation: Mookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    9,461
    Whoa DJ, you better get down to your local dispensary. STAT!
    Let's eat Ted
    Let's eat, Ted
    Remember, commas save lives

  35. #35
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    Whoa DJ, you better get down to your local dispensary. STAT!
    Jeez, a guy can't even go off the deep end around here.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491
    Hey DIRTJUNKIE,
    I just came across this video and I must say after watching it, I agree with your thought 100%
    Video was posted over 5yrs ago.


    They make it look like a scam or something. Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to build mine and get a basic feel for getting started.
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

  37. #37
    I didn't do it
    Reputation: Mookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    9,461
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Jeez, a guy can't even go off the deep end around here.
    That's OK, just don't let it happen again.
    Let's eat Ted
    Let's eat, Ted
    Remember, commas save lives

  38. #38
    it's....
    Reputation: Strafer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,087
    No need to build that contraption if you have an old mag trainer gathering dust.
    I was able to fit 142x12 rear after removing the mag resistance part, and works just like the "manual machine".

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by Strafer View Post
    No need to build that contraption if you have an old mag trainer gathering dust.
    I was able to fit 142x12 rear after removing the mag resistance part, and works just like the "manual machine".
    I don't have one of those, but I am wonder how things worked out for you?
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

  40. #40
    it's....
    Reputation: Strafer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,087
    Works same as the machines in the videos.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ninjichor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    489
    How do these contraptions deal with side loads? Does it keep you from falling over to the side? Will that side-load stress do any damage your bike or rear wheel?

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    99
    This whole thread does give me an idea. I did not grow up with a bike I could wheelie or manual so I did not try until I was nearly 60 years old. After landing on my tailbone in the grass four times I figured I had better give up. Building one of these would take me about an hour. My problem was knowing the position and the balance point. I am sure I can figure out the balance.

    Since then I have built an alpine skiing simulator that can be modified to allow for everything except braking action. I can be in a harness that is spring loaded to cushion/prevent injury falls including the bike. The machine has a fairly narrow window to ride in and will trigger immediate shutdown using light curtains.

    Dang I did not think about this until the variety of posts in this thread. Thanks guys.


    I will try first with a light DJ type bike and work up to my 60 lb e fatbike.

  43. #43
    Uncle
    Reputation: Entrenador's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,104
    Quote Originally Posted by PierreR View Post
    ...Since then I have built an alpine skiing simulator that can be modified to allow for everything except braking action. I can be in a harness that is spring loaded to cushion/prevent injury falls including the bike. The machine has a fairly narrow window to ride in and will trigger immediate shutdown using light curtains.
    Post a few photos, or better yet a video of it/you in action.

  44. #44
    Interplanetary Poultry
    Reputation: scatterbrained's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    349
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    A manual machine on a treadmill would be brilliant!
    A bit off topic, but I remember years ago seeing people doing something similar with motorcycles, i.e. using a dyno as a giant wheeling training machine.
    Editor In Chief, "Internet Tough Guy Magazine"
    "Home of Chuck Norris' Keyboard"

  45. #45
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    A bit off topic, but I remember years ago seeing people doing something similar with motorcycles, i.e. using a dyno as a giant wheeling training machine.
    Pansies. . . 😂 channeling my inner Evel Kneivel.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  46. #46
    PokeyOne
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    246
    I made my own with a mag trainer a couple years ago, after first seeing a super nice rig at the Lumberyard up in Portland.

    I think it has been very helpful.
    I mount my dirt jumper on it and practice every now and then. My buddies love playing on it when it's set up. Within minutes someone starts a timer to see who can loft a wheel the longest.
    The trainer allows me to pedal and practice switchfoot.
    It helped immediately when I rode my pumptrack afterwards, made me 1 or 2 positions faster at the BMX races, and helped out on the trail too.
    I still can't loft a long one out on the trail, so it's not an exact training device. But it's pretty close with some real benefits in the real world.

  47. #47
    I have Flat Pedal shame.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    732
    Redirected from the front page: I watched the video and decided to build one. Took about an hour using scrap wood.

    Background on me: Riding for many years, amateur Enduro racer, been to the 3 day Better Rides MTB instruction, certified Fluid Ride instructor, certified Evergreen Mountain Bike instructor (IMBA), and soon to be certified PMBI instructor. I lean more towards the gravity side of riding.

    Takeaways: I can do pedal wheelies all day long, but for some reason Manuals have always been a bit of a sticking point. The Manual Machine is ironing out the kinks in my technique and allowing me to get more control over my balance. I noticed that the movement to do a manual is more of a "forward - backdownward" rocking movement vs. the "down and back" I have seen in videos. I also noticed that I can get my front wheel higher for longer in real life out on the trail, with less effort.

    Downsides: It is literally like using a rowing machine: You are going to be sore. You also dont get the nuances of what to do if the bike leans to one side (turn the wheel, stick a knee out, etc).

    So, I like it. It gives me something to do when I can't go ride, and its fun. I highly recommend one to you if manualing is something you want to work on.
    We don't ride to add days to our life, we ride to add life to the days we have left here.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4
    Since you broke your neck, wrist, sternum and scapula to learn manuals and wheelies i wonder why one should take your advice on the matter..?

  49. #49
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Well then, may I at least suggest they buy a how to manual first?
    You mean a how to manual manual?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  50. #50
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
    Reputation: noapathy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,826
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You mean a how to manual manual?
    I was gonna get that, but first I had to build a contraption to turn the pages for me. Baby steps.

    Manual Machine-photo-2.jpg

  51. #51
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Quote Originally Posted by 3lakemtb View Post
    Since you broke your neck, wrist, sternum and scapula to learn manuals and wheelies i wonder why one should take your advice on the matter..?
    who are you talking to?

  52. #52
    Cycologist
    Reputation: chazpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    I was gonna get that, but first I had to build a contraption to turn the pages for me. Baby steps.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Photo-2.jpg 
Views:	89 
Size:	285.9 KB 
ID:	1214773
    I recommend Manuel's Manual Manual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  53. #53
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    23,579
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I recommend Manuel's Manual Manual.
    Wouldn't it be Manuel's manual manual manual? Or is it automatic?

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,058
    I thought a manual was what you did when someone wouldn't do it for you... hand job that is

    I think wheelies are fun, but if you really wanna learn some balance, get skilled on a unicycle.
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sethd513's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    267
    I built one because I wanted to get better with my balance point with clipless pedals. Now Im practicing much more while out riding where before I didnt have the confidence.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  56. #56
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    926
    I built one. $30 and a couple hours, and I aint no carpenter. Simpler than the one in the OP. It helped me. I got to know the basic feeling without worrying about hurting myself. Low risk experiment. Big insight for me: pulling up on bars is wrong...preloading pedals with force and getting your arse over the back wheel in a 90 degree motion is right. Different than a wheelie. Not intuitive or natural. Can I do a manual yet on the trail? Not well or for very long. But I know the feeling and what Im supposed to do whereas before I was way off even after watching videos. Itll come. I feel like I lowered the learning curve a bit.

    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33
    Man, it's been a year already? Guess I have been to busy mountain biking to bother. But my opion on the Manuel machine still is the same, even one year later.

    Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tealy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    305
    okay
    Last edited by tealy; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:00 AM.
    "You can be clipped in and be boring or ride flats and have a good time." - Sam Hill

  59. #59
    I have Flat Pedal shame.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by merk20 View Post
    Man, it's been a year already? Guess I have been to busy mountain biking to bother. But my opion on the Manuel machine still is the same, even one year later.

    Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk
    I think you secretly have one.
    We don't ride to add days to our life, we ride to add life to the days we have left here.

  60. #60
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    You mean a how to manual manual?
    At least someone got that joke.

    Even though it took 9 months.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Thustlewhumber View Post
    I think you secretly have one.
    I do, it's in the fire pit

    Sent from my SM-J727T using Tapatalk

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,306
    I built one yesterday. Cost about $6 cause i had a couple of 2x4s lying around already.

    I have to say, it dramatically speeds up the manual learning process.

    It went from me thinking I sort of knew how to manual but realizing all I was able to do was to pop up the front wheel for about 2 seconds, just long enough to ride off some ledges, to being able to 1 out of 4 times, hold the front wheel up indefinitely. The rest of the times it stays up for 5 seconds or so. Quite the improvement. The thing is, this improvement all occurred in about 15 minutes of total practice.

    Ps. Put your bike in the lowest gear as otherwise your long cage derailler might contact the wood supporting your rear wheel.
    Pss. Definitely tie the safety rope as a loop out on to jagged wood was quite painful and a bit bloody.

    On edit: It doesn't really transfer to the street/ trails. I balanced on the machine multiple times but could not transfer it to the street. In fact I think I got worse!

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    29
    Here is our contribution to the "manual machine debate". Hope you like it (in Spanish je je):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lig59_PGDD4

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    62
    I built one for my 20in BMX. It has helped massively with finding the balance point.

    Is it going to teach everything? No. Is it helpful? Yes. Is it kind of fun? Yes.
    For less then 20 dollars and maybe a couple hours building, I think it is totally worth it.

  65. #65
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    32,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Enduro SingleTracks View Post
    Here is our contribution to the "manual machine debate". Hope you like it (in Spanish je je):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lig59_PGDD4
    Is that Manuel riding it?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: watermonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Only on MTBR... ride your damn bike if you want to learn to manual.
    I love the manual machine I've built. Its been used by a lot of people, a whole bunch of kids, and is the single fastest way to get riders to understand the complex relationship of rider weight distribution and bike handling. It has provided an Ahah! moment for many riders, and is a starting point for changing mountain bikers from passengers to pilots of their bikes. Unless, of course, you're as awesome as the author of the quote above.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Is that Manuel riding it?
    Yeah ja ja! Manuel with the manual machine. Almost a tongue-twister -

  68. #68
    jcd's best friend
    Reputation: Battery's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,160
    You guys should get an e-manual machine and stop using those analog manual ones.
    Trek | Octane One | Transition

  69. #69
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3,774
    these are great because it lets you feel the angle of the dangle w/o much consequence

    knowing how steep 'feels' is huge ...but then you need to go out and start getting your ass-cracked in real riding to get good at it
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    knowing how steep 'feels' is huge ...but then you need to go out and start getting your ass-cracked in real riding to get good at it
    Indeed! I agree that this is one of the most important learnings that you can get from the manual machine. The balance point is very high!!!

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    491
    I almost forgot about this thread. I never did mention by bad experience on a real ride..

    Rather funny.

    I pretty much over built mine. I did so because of my weight. I practiced a lot with it and I felt very confident.

    Where it became scary and I stopped was my fault.

    I lost a lot of weight, but I still was wearing my favorite shorts, which were far to baggy. I barely tried on first attempt and of.course I didnt get any left or distance.

    My second attempt with a lot more force. I gotten the wheel up, but my baggy shorts got caught the seat and it was rather terrifying. I didnt fall, but I mentally couldn't get that wheel back up. I haven't tried since then.

    I've mainly used mine for storing my bike. I think I will start back to practicing.

    And yes, I put away the over sized shorts.
    TREK 2012 Marlin
    TREK 2013 Superfly Comp - Carbon

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-23-2013, 12:52 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-29-2013, 06:36 PM
  3. Welcome to the Machine
    By Aquaholic in forum Knolly
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 01-25-2011, 05:44 PM
  4. lte see your small milling machine projects
    By thwang-01 in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-31-2010, 11:40 PM
  5. The History of the Bicycle, The Green Machine by Iain Boal
    By older and slower in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-30-2010, 09:41 AM

Members who have read this thread: 459

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.