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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I could even see justification for requiring shops to purchase guide permits for the relevant public lands.
    You're loads of fun at parties, aren't you?
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    You're loads of fun at parties, aren't you?
    No. I'm not. I am an introvert and don't do well at parties. As if that detracts from my point. What's yours?

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    After watching hundreds of trails closed because of an endangered species, only later to become housing tracts, I really don't give a shit anymore. Just about every trail I rode in the 80s is gone.
    I have a much smaller sample size, but had a similar experience here recently; trail was closed because it was in sensitive habitat, then trail was extensively logged with a massive gravel landing for timber trucks to turn around installed. I try to play nice, but that is really making it harder for me to justify doing so.

  4. #104
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    For me, if they offered the best service or carried BMX stuff I'd keep going.
    Niner WFO9, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), 6KU single speed (town/workout bike)

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    How is it a gray area? The trail was closed to bikes. Sounds pretty black and white to me. You can't call something gray because you don't like the way it happened.
    The people who put up the PCT signs decided bikes weren't allowed although they were in the early 80s. This decision was without public input. I'm not going to let an association tell me where I can and can't ride at their whim. There's nothing wrong with civil disobedience in the off season. I certainly wouldn't be out there in spring at the height of the season although I am, dropping off water and doing trail maintenance. Not that this justifies anything.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    As far as us being outlaws. C'mon, we are not the ones making meth out there, we are just riding bikes. We are not even in the same class as an outlaw. An outlaw is someone that smuggles illegals across the border for thousands of dollars and doesn't even give them enough water on the trip. And some of you compare riding on restricted trails to THAT?
    Willie Nelson is an outlaw. Those people are hardened criminals.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    The people who put up the PCT signs decided bikes weren't allowed although they were in the early 80s. This decision was without public input. I'm not going to let an association tell me where I can and can't ride at their whim. There's nothing wrong with civil disobedience in the off season. I certainly wouldn't be out there in spring at the height of the season although I am, dropping off water and doing trail maintenance. Not that this justifies anything.
    A couple of years ago the city added a "no left on red" sign because they allow traffic flow to continue through the intersection.

    Left turns were allowed for about 17 years. I liked it better that way.

    Today I take a stand. I'm going to turn left because I like it better the old way.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    As far as us being outlaws. C'mon, we are not the ones making meth out there, we are just riding bikes. We are not even in the same class as an outlaw. An outlaw is someone that smuggles illegals across the border for thousands of dollars and doesn't even give them enough water on the trip. And some of you compare riding on restricted trails to THAT?
    The definition of "outlaw" is pretty broad.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outlaw

    Definition of outlaw (Entry 1 of 2)
    1 : a person excluded from the benefit or protection of the law
    2a : a lawless person or a fugitive from the law
    b : a person or organization under a ban or restriction
    c : one that is unconventional or rebellious
    3 : an animal (such as a horse) that is wild and unmanageable
    Definition 2c pretty much nails this situation, with some elements of 2a.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    After watching hundreds of trails closed because of an endangered species, only later to become housing tracts, I really don't give a shit anymore.
    The double standards can be quite glaring at times. In our area, getting new trails built is delayed for years by all the red tape and bureaucracy having to get biologists out to survey and approve trail corridors, do environmental impact statements etc. Meanwhile on the same tract of land they are logging off hundreds of acres. And when you point out to the land manager that the 60 year old hulking turd of logging equipment their contract logger is using is spewing hydraulic fluid all over creation (including the local stream they didn't want you to bridge over with a trail) to the point you're afraid to ride the fire road for fear of contaminating your brake pads, nothing happens and they keep allowing it to continue for over 2 years.

    I've seen it with multiple land owners, where leaving a bike tire track on a trail is made out to be the environmental apocalypse, and a year later the trail is obliterated in a 300 acre clear cut.

    I don't have an issue with jumping through the proper hoops to make sure we protect sensitive habitat on backcountry trails, but it is silly to claim mountain bikes are causing environmental damage in working forests that have been and will be clear cut.
    No dig no whine

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by myt1 View Post
    We have plenty of other places to ride that are not as pristine.
    This is the exact argument that other groups (hikers and equestrians) use to keep mountain bikes out of Wilderness (you can go ride somewhere else that isn't Wilderness), and then they turn around and oppose mountain bikes on every piece of public land and trail from the local city and county parks, state forest, national forests, BLM land etc.

    I don't disagree with you that mountain bikes (and particularly horses) don't belong everywhere, but that argument has been used for 40 years to shut us out anywhere and everywhere hiking and equestrian groups don't want to share access to our public lands.

    The end result is that in areas where there is a lot of opposition to mountain bikes, they concentrate all the mountain bike use in very limited amount of trail miles, then say "see, you let mountain bikes in and they swarm like locusts."
    No dig no whine

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    A couple of years ago the city added a "no left on red" sign because they allow traffic flow to continue through the intersection.

    Left turns were allowed for about 17 years. I liked it better that way.

    Today I take a stand. I'm going to turn left because I like it better the old way.
    Yeah, great analogy.
    I liked it better when you could club a colony of fur seals to death and people wouldn't get all up in arms about it. Heck I just bought a 50 gallon drum of DDT from Nigeria.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    This is the exact argument that other groups (hikers and equestrians) use to keep mountain bikes out of Wilderness (you can go ride somewhere else that isn't Wilderness), and then they turn around and oppose mountain bikes on every piece of public land and trail from the local city and county parks, state forest, national forests, BLM land etc.

    I don't disagree with you that mountain bikes (and particularly horses) don't belong everywhere, but that argument has been used for 40 years to shut us out anywhere and everywhere hiking and equestrian groups don't want to share access to our public lands.

    The end result is that in areas where there is a lot of opposition to mountain bikes, they concentrate all the mountain bike use in very limited amount of trail miles, then say "see, you let mountain bikes in and they swarm like locusts."
    Only way to solve this is to get more people into mountain biking, then get those people to speak up.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Only way to solve this is to get more people into mountain biking, then get those people to speak up.
    Seems like the majority of anti-mountain bike people I have run across over the years have been angry old people. I was kinda hoping they would just die off. Wishful thinking probably, since they keep making old people.
    No dig no whine

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    Seems like the majority of anti-mountain bike people I have run across over the years have been angry old people. I was kinda hoping they would just die off. Wishful thinking probably, since they keep making old people.
    A lot of closed-mindedness will definitely die off over time, but it will be replaced with exciting new forms of closed-mindedness.

  15. #115
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    I'm an angry old person and am purposely going run some young punk off the trail today. Preferably a hiker, but I'm so angry a biker will do.

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