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  1. #1
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    High End Aluminum VS Low End Carbon

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/behind...-fugitive.html

    https://nsmb.com/articles/knolly-fou...ley-interview/

    I have ordered one of these frames and aluminum vs carbon is not really something I consider when frame shopping, except with regards to price. I'm not concerned with a few hundred grams of frame weight, but do think about rocks hitting my frame, or falling on a rock. I know some people have gotta have carbon, but frame prices here in Canada are getting outrageous. What are your thoughts? How has your money been spent?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  2. #2
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    I'm going with aluminum. When you weigh 235lbs, a few grams off the frame makes no difference. Maybe I'm old school, but I equate lightweight to fright weight. Don't need parts failing because of fatigue. Another factor for me is when I road biked the carbon fiber frames felt dead. Next bike will be an aluminum hard tail, probably a 27.5.

  3. #3
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    Also 235lbs here and having just broken some high end carbon Iím definitely considering going back to aluminium again!

    Currently trying to decide between the Fugitive, Trail Pistol or going all out and having a custom Nicolai or Waltworks FS built for me.

  4. #4
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    I'd opt for the carbon frame, expecting that I'll be replacing (and upgrading) components as they wear out (or as I surf the web at night with my credit card suffering from insomnia).

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I'd opt for the carbon frame, expecting that I'll be replacing (and upgrading) components as they wear out (or as I surf the web at night with my credit card suffering from insomnia).
    Why the carbon?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  6. #6
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    Aluminum here. Bail if needed, let the thing fall onto the rocks, I don't care. I'm 250, the weight is not going to matter. The first time I stripped a bike down to an aluminum frame, I was shocked at how light it was. But there is always something lighter...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Why the carbon?
    Ya I've gone back-and-forth on this for years. I'm now up to 3 pals w/ carbon frames, those bikes ride great, but I'm not sure it's a "better" ride.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Why the carbon?
    Cuz fancy and why not.

  9. #9
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    I like the way carbon rides and holds a line compared to the aluminum bikes I've ridden.

  10. #10
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    I've never had a problem with alu full suspensions. Doubt I'd ever buy an alu hardtail again, though. My wife has 2 carbon FS bikes and they're nice enough. Just not sure they're nice enough for me to pay the carbon premium.

  11. #11
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    I have 160mm of travel, plus low pressure high volume tires. Its already like riding a couch.

    Ill take whatever frame option is cheaper, and that happens to be aluminum right now. Soon I think everything will be carbon, and then ill ride carbon.

  12. #12
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    Aluminum, steel or ti for me, not interested in carbon.
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  13. #13
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    If you're between pricing on a high end aluminum or low end carbon I've always recommended the aluminum. I agree the weight savings isn't there, you'll notice the high end components more. Most bikes the weight difference is like a quarter pound to a pound, and not in rotational weight which matters more.

    That said, I've broken a few aluminum frames, they do stress over time and metal fatigue is real. I have yet to break a carbon component.

    Now that I own a carbon hard tail, I really like the ride (so much less vibration, yet very stiff laterally). Having never ridden the aluminum version I can't say if it's the bike or the frame

  14. #14
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    I've had the same frame in carbon and alum. (got the carbon as warranty replacement). The weight isn't really that noticeable, but the frame stiffness and increase acceleration was immediately noticeable with carbon (at least in my head). The more travel a bike has, the less noticeable it is, I bet.

  15. #15
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    I think, the reason why I went carbon (and I actually held off as long as I could!) is mainly because all the bikes I wanted or was interested in were all being launched in plastic. So naturally that's the way I had to go, in the mean time the industry stops developing high end metal, we're left to go to the small niche builders (thank god for them guys!) to get our fix and we're told that carbon is the way to go, so we don't have a lot of choice but to buy them.

    However over the past couple of years in particular, the price of carbon has shot up massively, at least from the majority of the manufacturers I'm interested in. The last alloy frame I owned was a Turner Burner v3.1 which was fantastic and still weighed less than my Pivot Switchblade, 2 lbs less in fact with not as nice a build and alu wheels! Since then I've had 6 or 7 carbon bikes and I've had structural issues on 4 of them.

    I'm not slating carbon though, I know it has its place and I love my 21lbs Les as it is seriously like riding a rocket a lot of the time BUT I dislike the fact that most carbon trail/enduro bikes weigh more than the alloy bikes of a couple of years back yet cost far far more.

    I guess my resurgence of interest in alu piqued when the industry seemed to be showing an interest in putting some genuine innovation back into the sector, Pole's Machine, Raaw Madonna, Pivot's new alu Switchblade, Mach 6. I've kind of been holding out for a light weight xc/trail bike along the lines of a Yeti SB100 but noone's ran with it yet. If Intense were to get Rick the Welder back out of retirement for a limited run of an alu Sniper I'd be in there like swimwear!

  16. #16
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    I'm a carbon slut. Carbon mtb, skateboard, landboard, kiteboard, hydrofoil... MMMHHH carbon. Apart from my mtb i've made all my other carbon goodies i built myself.

    Why. Carbon is lighter and stronger. Built well it will well outlast any alluminium frame in the same conditions.

    Back in the day they built carbon frames too light and they often broke. Now days most manufacturers go for slightly lighter and a lot stronger. Which is a good thing.


    Also you are not bound by the limitations of sheet metalwall processes, , tube sizes and wall thickness. The design of the frame can be better optimised for strength where it is needed and less material where it is not.


    Lastly, I'm a second hand buyer. I cant afford the high level fruit that i want in either carbon or alloy at new prices. So i must buy second hand. Second hand the pricing is very similar between carbon and alloy. Because i dont have a frame warrantee buying something that can easily be repaired is an advantage. Carbon can be ground back and relayed up and made stronger than before relatively easily. Alloy cannot be effectively repaired without an expensive head treating process.


    In conclusion. Carbon is lighter stronger, a more optimised design, more easily repaired, not much more expensive second hand.

  17. #17
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    I went aluminum mainly because of price. I was buying a new Santa Cruz bike with a warranty so frame breakage wasn't a huge concern, but the $600 price difference was. Also there was very little difference in weight, and I demo'd a carbon frame and couldn't really tell the difference from the ride. I had also come off a carbon loaner that I had been riding for a few weeks, and again being on plastic vs beer cans didn't really seem to make a difference in the ride itself. So I figured why pay the premium.

  18. #18
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    Rocks + mountain bike = Fun. Rocks + mountain bike + carbon = worry, did that rock that just flew up crack my frame?

    Not worth it to me.

  19. #19
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    Carbon is better in every way...but price.

    My long travel bike is carbon, it was also the cheapest option in that model line (Enduro). But, in retrospect, I wish it was carbon because Specialized uses the frame for storage, and that I love for trail riding as I hate carrying weight on my back.

    I have nothing against other materials.

  20. #20
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    I like the aesthetics of a carbon frame. The flowing lines is pleasing to my eye. Don't really know about durability and all that. I can't recall breaking the tubing or joints on any frame in 30 years of mountain biking. Most of my failures have been at pivots, linkages, or shocks.

  21. #21
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    If the option is there I'd go carbon. For a FS bike you more than likely won't notice any difference in ride quality but a carbon frame can be repaired after damage, it's slightly lighter and they are a whole lot more durable than people make them out to be.

    Also "cheap" carbon is a very relative term. It could be just as good as any big name brand but you simply aren't paying the big name price. There is no real way of knowing to be honest until you rode both as hard as possible until failure.

  22. #22
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    Say, by "low end carbon" did you mean cheap carbon frame like a Chinese generic or brand-name carbon frame with cheap component spec (or both)?

  23. #23
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    what major brand makes "low end" carbon?

    I understand high end aluminum, but I think this low end carbon stuff is a myth unless its some ebay frame. The carbon frames from the normal brands are excellent and definitely not low end, you dont need to get S-Works or Yeti Turq carbon to get "good" carbon.

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    Is the bike stiffer, lighter or does it ride better enough for the difference in price? Would be the questions i would ask myself. Have you had the chance to ride the Aluminum version? My buddy went from aluminum to carbon on the Warden, the only difference i felt when weve switched bikes was the carbon bike felt smoother. Less vibration since aluminum can amplify frequencies in the tubes. He says he feels less fatigued riding the carbon one.

  25. #25
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    How many read the interviews? NB thinks there is a lot of crap carbon out there and it's not just from Aliexpress. It sounds to me that Knolly brought out the Carbon Warden because some people won't buy aluminium no matter how good it is. As far as looks go, I'll strip the mudguards and frame bag off my steel hardtail and make all the other bikes at the trail head jealous.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post
    what major brand makes "low end" carbon?

    I understand high end aluminum, but I think this low end carbon stuff is a myth unless its some ebay frame. The carbon frames from the normal brands are excellent and definitely not low end, you dont need to get S-Works or Yeti Turq carbon to get "good" carbon.

    Low-end carbon stuff is not a myth:

    QILEFU Mountain Bike Full Carbon Fibre Bicycle Hard Front Fork 26er 29er Parts $78.99


    They claim the front fork is 1.0 pounds (rigid). That's a really light fork. But then read the reviews ---

    Fits great. In case you didn't know, you will have to cut the top tube down to fit your bike. If you're replacing a metal fork you'll also probably need a compression fitting to secure the stem. Other than that, the fork works pretty well so far! UPDATE- broken after riding on it about a half a dozen times. Iím no hardcore downhill rider either. Total piece of crap. The layers are broken and peeling on the front and the back.


    I know very little about bikes but I'm mechanically inclined. I installed this fork on my wife's old bike (she bought a new one because the suspension forks on her old bike we're super squishy, heavy and made the bike harder for her to ride). They went on fairly well... However, I had to have our LBS remove the crown race from the old fork and install them on the new fork (I didn't have the proper tool and wasn't going to invest in the tooling for a one off job). The brakes lined up fairly well but there is significant flex in the new carbon fiber fork under moderate to heavy breaking. I wouldn't feel comfortable riding the bike off road AT ALL! It has a pretty sketchy feel now. I guess it will be ok for street riding but I wouldn't trust it for much more than that. I thought I would gamble and hope for the best but it didn't work out this time.


    You get what you pay for. Itís inexpensive for carbon fiber, however, the machined surface on the rotor mounts are far from true thus not allowing the brake pads to align with the rotor. I had two mechanics at my bike shop face the mount surface and itís still askew. They worked on it for about an hour. Iíll have to try myself to get it so the brake pads are true to the rotor. Unless youíre willing to spend a couple of hours doing what the manufacturer should have done I would recommend not buying this product.


    Brake bosses came plugged with resin. I had to buy tap set to clean them out. Also not well aligned. This fork is a bit too flexible and twists enough so that the hardware I had to use in order to mount the brakes rubs on the disc in turns. Like a ting ting ting as I ride down quiet streets. Yay. I would not have purchased had I known.
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  27. #27
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    There is a difference between a bike built to be light and one built to be tough.

    If you are looking to get a light XC race FS bike then carbon is only way to go. My Specialized Epic is lower grade than the s-works version, but still really light. I saved alot of money. That said their lower grade is still pretty good carbon. The bike as built is under 23lbs. Carbon frame, carbon wheels, carbon seat post, carbon handlebar. Carbon is where it is at for XC.

    Now if you are looking at big travel bike that is already 30ish lbs the penalty for aluminum is far less. 200-400grams on a 6lbs frame at 30lbs bike is not like 400 grams on 4lbs frame and sub 25lbs bike. Big burly bikes already trade weight for strength all over the board so aluminum makes more sense.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    How many read the interviews? NB thinks there is a lot of crap carbon out there and it's not just from Aliexpress. It sounds to me that Knolly brought out the Carbon Warden because some people won't buy aluminium no matter how good it is. As far as looks go, I'll strip the mudguards and frame bag off my steel hardtail and make all the other bikes at the trail head jealous.
    Yeah basically everyone is using an inflatable badder and a one sided mold. This causes weak spots and folds. Noel stated they use a 2 sided mold. 2 sided molds in a vacuum make the strongest carbon

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by karthur View Post
    Rocks + mountain bike = Fun. Rocks + mountain bike + carbon = worry, did that rock that just flew up crack my frame?
    And If it did, how much will I have to pay for the "crash replacement" (cause a pebble crashed into the frame, sorry no warrantee) ?

    Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    I've had the same frame in carbon and alum. (got the carbon as warranty replacement). The weight isn't really that noticeable, but the frame stiffness and increase acceleration was immediately noticeable with carbon (at least in my head). The more travel a bike has, the less noticeable it is, I bet.
    It's probably more important for suspension frames to be stiffer where it counts like the rear end to rocker. It's crucial to keep the rear triangle and rocker as straight and aligned as possible. The more flex there is in the rear end the quicker the bearings will wear out as well as being sloppier in the handling department.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Now if you are looking at big travel bike that is already 30ish lbs the penalty for aluminum is far less. 200-400grams on a 6lbs frame at 30lbs bike is not like 400 grams on 4lbs frame and sub 25lbs bike. Big burly bikes already trade weight for strength all over the board so aluminum makes more sense.
    You might find this interesting but my Lapierre 150mm travel bike is just under 27lbs stock trim. Lapierre shaved about a pound off the previous year frame. When you can't drop weight on the components it comes down to frame weight.

  31. #31
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    Within the major brands there is no such thing as poor/lower carbon frames. They are all tested, and retested - mostly to avoid litigation. The "higher end", or higher modulus carbon found on flagship frames further increases stiffness, but isn't necessarily more reliable.

    Advancements to carbon fiber use over the years have eliminated most concerns: UV/sunlight, lifespan of carbon, small rock impacts, sudden "shattering" of the frame.

    Modern design can even build in compliance in hardtails, which is nice.

    Price to weight ratio should be the only concern these days.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Within the major brands there is no such thing as poor/lower carbon frames. They are all tested, and retested - mostly to avoid litigation. The "higher end", or higher modulus carbon found on flagship frames further increases stiffness, but isn't necessarily more reliable.
    https://www.outsideonline.com/231181...dents-lawsuits
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Great article.
    I read plenty of stories of carbon frames breaking and experienced one when my friends bike broke half out of the blue while riding on a fireroad.
    I only look at alu for that reason.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    If that's the one about the lady buying the old carbon road bike/fork it's a terrible article.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    How is a rigid carbon road fork from a decade ago related to your question on modern mountain bike frames?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Even though the article is current, I'm not seeing it referring to any problems beyond 2010.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grooverider View Post
    Great article.
    I read plenty of stories of carbon frames breaking and experienced one when my friends bike broke half out of the blue while riding on a fireroad.
    I only look at alu for that reason.
    Broke in half?

  38. #38
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    If I had a specific frame/suspension design that I really liked, and it was only in aluminum, I'd buy aluminum. If it was only in carbon, I'd buy carbon. My (and my wife's) bikes are Yeti SB5's, so carbon it is.

    If it was available in both, in good quality, I'd take carbon. If I had a choice between what I perceived to be good quality anything and poor quality anything, I'd pick the good quality.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    If I had a specific frame/suspension design that I really liked, and it was only in aluminum, I'd buy aluminum. If it was only in carbon, I'd buy carbon. My (and my wife's) bikes are Yeti SB5's, so carbon it is.

    If it was available in both, in good quality, I'd take carbon. If I had a choice between what I perceived to be good quality anything and poor quality anything, I'd pick the good quality.
    Well said.

    I'll have a look, but there was an article a while back around stress testing various road frames (since we're using road examples). IIRC, all material types had failures, and at the end of the day, the best designs in any given material held up.

  40. #40
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    For me, the benefits of carbon don't outweigh the downsides. I happen to have an OCR 1 with likely the same carbon fork as in that story, so yeah I'm thinking I should probably replace it.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Christ, reposting that ambulance chaser article?

    We've already been thru this once.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...e-1084082.html

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    Broke in half?
    Pretty much.
    Top tube cracked and the whole thing collapsed.

    As for the article people seem to miss the part where they say that nobody really knows how will those frames hold in time.
    Just cause you can replace your frame every 1-5 years it doesn't mean the bike goes to a dumpster. Somebody will use it most likely and there's no cheap way to determine if there are no hidden cracks in it and etc.

  43. #43
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    I've had carbon bikes since 2008, an 08 Tomac Carbide XC, 10 Tomac Carbide SL, 13 Epic Comp Carbon, 15 Epic Expert, 17 Epic Pro and I've got a 19 Epic on order. All have been raced and had crashes resulting in superficial nicks and scratches, never had a failure. Not saying that the right impact couldn't trash a frame, but there seems to be some people that think if you kick up even a good sized rock you're SOL.

    I think if you stick to a reputable manufacturer you're in good shape.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    If I had a specific frame/suspension design that I really liked, and it was only in aluminum, I'd buy aluminum. If it was only in carbon, I'd buy carbon. My (and my wife's) bikes are Yeti SB5's, so carbon it is.

    If it was available in both, in good quality, I'd take carbon. If I had a choice between what I perceived to be good quality anything and poor quality anything, I'd pick the good quality.
    This.


    While this additional point is going to come off as highly subjective and anecdotal, I think at times some carbon fiber frames Ive ridden feel too stiff and don't track through th loose chunk as well.

    Just a bit of waggle in the rear triangle keeps things moving along nicely.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    How many read the interviews?
    It's hard to dispute his premise that a well-designed aluminum bike is going to be better than a poorly designed carbon frame. I also found it interesting that his costs of hydroforming an aluminum frame approach that of molding a carbon frame.

    Seems like every bike company has to design two different bikes, one for carbon and one for aluminum, for each model they produce. It concerns me that some companies might cut corners to put out either a cheap carbon or a cheap aluminum model just to tick the box on that material. It is good to see that Knolly puts a lot of effort into their aluminum frames. I don't think they're the only ones that do that.

    When I look at my aluminum Bronson, I can tell that a lot of effort was put into the aluminum-specific design - the top tube tapers from front to back, and the bottom tube has a D shape that is clearly hydroformed in a curved shape. Those features appear to be specific to the aluminum model so clearly thought was put into building the frame with that specific material. I don't think the dropouts are as well thought out and crafted as that Knolly, though.

    So I guess it highlights to me that one thing to consider isn't just the material used to make the frame, but how good the company is with that material.

  46. #46
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    Is it inappropriate to suggest steel or titanium...?
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Is it inappropriate to suggest steel or titanium...?
    It's never inappropriate to suggest steel or titanium!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Is it inappropriate to suggest steel or titanium...?
    I have a steel HT and Knolly is making a ti gravel bike, but that's not what this thread is about.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I have a steel HT and Knolly is making a ti gravel bike, but that's not what this thread is about.
    Itís obvious that a low end carbon frame isnít as good as a high end aluminum frame. I think you need to ask the question, which is better for the money spent between a high end carbon compared to a high end aluminum frame. Depends on the riders weight and terrain most frequently ridden.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  50. #50
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    I've broken steel, aluminum ,and ti ,haven't broken carbon yet.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Is it inappropriate to suggest steel or titanium...?
    Well, there seemed to be this idea in the early days of MTB that titanium was some kind of "wonder material" that would never break. Turns out, it breaks just fine, lots of people have cracked their frames over and over again. It's all in the design and manufacturing, but it's harder to work with, which means the design and manufacturing has to operate to a higher level, which hasn't always happened. A decent aluminum bike will never be cycled enough (see enough stress) in 20 years to break due to fatigue, but if it breaks before that it's due to a flaw or over-stress event and titanium would fare no better. Bikes don't break because you rode them for 20+ years, they break because you over-stressed it or a part of the bike was not designed properly. Aluminum is relatively easy to work with and carbon fiber takes that to the next level, allowing for shapes not possible with metal that distribute stress even better. There are some distinct advantages to these easier-to-work-with materials and much of the hype about stuff like Titanium has blown over.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by karthur View Post
    Rocks + mountain bike = Fun. Rocks + mountain bike + carbon = worry, did that rock that just flew up crack my frame?

    Not worth it to me.
    Theres a higher chance of you damaging your alloy bike than the carbon one in the same conditions.

  53. #53
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    My next bike was going to be carbon, and I'm following a couple owners appreciation groups on FB. I've noticed stays/swingarms breaking within the first season with poor customer support. The main company I was looking at has an aluminum option, but there's that customer service issue.

    My next frame will be a Ventana. If I were to crack a stay or swingarm, they would have the part out the same day, or I could wait to have it repaired and heat treated in house. My current Ventana is eight years old and even the bearings are smooth as the day it was delivered. I'm also a sucker for custom paint.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Is it inappropriate to suggest steel or titanium...?
    Gasp!!!! blasphemy!!! How dare you!!!


  55. #55
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    LOL
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 410sprint again.

    Now thatís blasphemy.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    Theres a higher chance of you damaging your alloy bike than the carbon one in the same conditions.
    I don't agree with this, and think carbon bikes should have down tube protection from the factory.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by idividebyzero View Post
    what major brand makes "low end" carbon?

    I understand high end aluminum, but I think this low end carbon stuff is a myth unless its some ebay frame. The carbon frames from the normal brands are excellent and definitely not low end, you dont need to get S-Works or Yeti Turq carbon to get "good" carbon.

    What defines high end carbon? Is it all the same or are there different variants?
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I don't agree with this, and think carbon bikes should have down tube protection from the factory.
    So should high end aluminum frames.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I don't agree with this, and think carbon bikes should have down tube protection from the factory.
    I was following a friend on his Scott Spark when a rock got flipped up and jammed between his downtube and the ground at 20mph. It lifted his rear tire clear off the ground and he almost went OTB. No frame protector on his 24lbs XC race bike and no damage to the frame either.

    I have no doubt if there were a sharper edge on that rock he would have damaged frame but same can be said for aluminum.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I don't agree with this, and think carbon bikes should have down tube protection from the factory.
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    So should high end aluminum frames.
    Hell, for the price we pay for such frames they should be covered in protective bubble wrapped velvet from the manufacturer.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  61. #61
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    I don't care which material the frame is made from, I'll take whatever's lighter. I've broken both carbon and aluminum and had a quick warranty turn around every time.
    Keep the Country country.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    And If it did, how much will I have to pay for the "crash replacement" (cause a pebble crashed into the frame, sorry no warrantee) ?

    Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
    I think the people that say this haven't ridden a carbon bike. I have heard many, many rocks hit my frame so far and no damage other that some slight chipping. I do have some frame protection on the downtube.

    I also sucked my chain up into the chainstay and chipped it there too. It's not delaminated, it's just a small nick in the epoxy. What really matters is the carbon/epoxy structure and if that delaminates or cracks.

    I will say on my bike, I don't agree with the ride thing. It's actually quite strange - it feels pretty nice at lower speeds and pedaling but with bigger hits at speed it feels very, very harsh. Also not forgivng as it'll bounce you off line if you aren't super precise. That's true of pretty much any hardtail, but I think a good steel frame is much more fogiving in all these respects.

    For a HT, I think I'll be going back to steel after my carbon bike dies.

    For FS, I don't really care. Carbon is OK if it's a good layup. Aluminum is OK if it doesn't weigh a ton.
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/behind...-fugitive.html

    https://nsmb.com/articles/knolly-fou...ley-interview/

    I have ordered one of these frames and aluminum vs carbon is not really something I consider when frame shopping, except with regards to price. I'm not concerned with a few hundred grams of frame weight, but do think about rocks hitting my frame, or falling on a rock. I know some people have gotta have carbon, but frame prices here in Canada are getting outrageous. What are your thoughts? How has your money been spent?
    Hi Travis

    Since you already have an awesome bike that'll perform well in all but the extreem trail conditions you must be thinking of building this bike for...extreem trail conditions. LOL

    At that level I think frame geo; suspension performance, durability and squat are bigger things to consider over frame materials. And if the frame and shocks meet that criteria with one material or another than come what may. There are horror stories with both materials, as well as, fans and successes.

    That said, I just moved up from a Timberjack AL to a Canfield EVO with DVO Sapphire front shock. I'm 6 2 210lbs 56yr who rides quick for fitness but not agressive. At this level the carbon is quicker, rides nicer and has better pedaling efficiency. It was a bit pricey but I really like it and think it's money well spent. I apreciate the plusses of carbon and time will tell if it holds up. IfI bust it and not get hurt the Moxie is on my short list but actualy costs more.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    I think the people that say this haven't ridden a carbon bike. I have heard many, many rocks hit my frame so far and no damage other that some slight chipping. I do have some frame protection on the downtube.

    I also sucked my chain up into the chainstay and chipped it there too. It's not delaminated, it's just a small nick in the epoxy. What really matters is the carbon/epoxy structure and if that delaminates or cracks.

    I will say on my bike, I don't agree with the ride thing. It's actually quite strange - it feels pretty nice at lower speeds and pedaling but with bigger hits at speed it feels very, very harsh. Also not forgivng as it'll bounce you off line if you aren't super precise. That's true of pretty much any hardtail, but I think a good steel frame is much more fogiving in all these respects.

    For a HT, I think I'll be going back to steel after my carbon bike dies.

    For FS, I don't really care. Carbon is OK if it's a good layup. Aluminum is OK if it doesn't weigh a ton.
    Yeah, got a lot to do with the individual bike.
    My son's older Ibis Mojo, I don't worry about incidental damage much. Thing has taken a licking and keeps on ticking. On the other hand, I've seen a carbon Niner break from not much more than being looked at the wrong way. Lousy back-up from the company in that case too.
    Sinister Bikes
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  65. #65
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    In May I put together a cheap carbon 27.5 hardtail - $190 for the frame shipped during an ebay 20% off sale. I usually break name brand hard tail frames in 1-2 years. So far it's going strong.

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