Has the price of bikes and parts made biking less interesting for you?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Has the price of bikes and parts made biking less interesting for you?

    Been an avid cyclist since 2006. I participated in the local bike races and events and take my kids to the local community bike rides. I'm active in the local bike community and know many of the local riders in my area. But recently I've just been kind of ho-hum about biking. As we all know new gear always makes biking more interesting, but with the price of gear getting progressively more expensive seemingly for little to no reason I've been reticent to upgrade anything as nothing I own seems to warrant spending the exorbitantly expensive costs. I still ride for fun but the enjoyment I used to get from getting new gear it no longer attainable at the economic prices that the bike industry has set. It's not like I'm poor, I can afford to get whatever my heart desires, but I'm not willing to pay the price the bike industry is asking.
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  2. #2
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    Actually if anything bikes have gotten cheaper over the years.

    A bike that cost $4000 in 2006 is vastly inferior in every way to a modern $4000 bike. What has changed is that the a lot more people are buying top of the line bikes which have gotten more expensive. But they too are vasty superior to older top of the line bikes.

    Just look at this bike:
    https://www.bikes.com/en/bikes/element/2019?tid=71
    Less than $3000 canadian!! Absolutely killer bike, I bet other than being heavier is far superior to the a $7000 bike from 2005.
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  3. #3
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    I'm in the same boat, I can't justify spending the amount of money some of these newer bikes/parts cost. I don't mind buying second hand, and sure some of my gear is dated but I cant say that's making me less interested in biking. Two of your three bikes are more current than anything I own, but if I were you, I'd be expecting a good 5/10 years out of those bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I'm in the same boat, I can't justify spending the amount of money some of these newer bikes/parts cost. I don't mind buying second hand, and sure some of my gear is dated but I cant say that's making me less interested in biking. Two of your three bikes are more current than anything I own, but if I were you, I'd be expecting a good 5/10 years out of those bikes.
    I'm happy with my bikes. But I still have not tried boost or eagle 12 speed or carbon wheels, or gone with an orange fork (Which i really really want).. I can afford them, I just don't feel the price is worth it.
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    Years ago I was really into buying and selling guitar gear. I would play all the time, but only when I was testing a new piece of gear or configuration. Now looking back I wasn't into playing guitar, I was into guitar gear. I still pick up an acoustic once a week or so, but it's not really a hobby of mine anymore.

    My point is that if what makes you want to ride is a new piece of gear then this may not be a passion of yours. Something like RC cars or similar where gear fiddling is a more integral part of the hobby might be better.

    I'm really not trying to be diminutive, there's nothing wrong with it if biking isn't for you, but that's my honest reaction. I love to ride. I honestly don't care about bikes, upgrades and all that. Obviously I do what I can to keep a decent ride under me, but the only gear question that determines my excitement for riding is 'does my bike work?' If it does, I'm pumped and I love every second I get to be out riding.

    Do you dig? Trail building can help bring a new appreciation for the sport. Nothing better than riding a trail you built, or even just a spot you maintained.

    Good luck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    I still have not tried boost or eagle 12 speed or carbon wheels, or gone with an orange fork (Which i really really want).. I can afford them, I just don't feel the price is worth it.
    They aren't going to make biking more fun for you.

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    Is the price of equivalent bikes, adjusted for inflation, actually going up, or is the upper limit of what the ultimate high-end bikes just going up? I think part of the feeling that bikes and parts are "more expensive" is partially in our heads.

    I don't have experience buying new bikes, just frames and parts. I am partial to steel hardtails, and the price of my current Karate Monkey frame only went up a few bucks since the first time I bought a KM frame in 2011 and the new one is much improved for the nominal price change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    I'm happy with my bikes. But I still have not tried boost or eagle 12 speed or carbon wheels, or gone with an orange fork (Which i really really want).. I can afford them, I just don't feel the price is worth it.
    Give it a few more years, prices will come down or the trends will shift again.

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    I've been riding and racing since the mid-90's; things were expensive then as they are now, but there were also more affordable options available just as there are now.
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  9. #9
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    Short version: No

    You are on a 2017 bike, complaining about how you don't want to upgrade bikes because new bikes cost too much? First World Problems.

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    Yeah, not to pile on but iterations of this complaint/debate have been discussed.

    One of the things I love about biking is that the cost of it, within reason, is what you make it. I can (and have) ridden some of the most challenging technical local trails where I ride on a $400 hard tail. That's what I started on and rode for 5 years before I got my first decent bike. That was a long time ago but you could easily get a decent used hard tail for around that price today.

    The bike I ride right now the most often would be considered top of the line but I bought it used with one season of riding on it for less than half of what it would have cost when it was released. To me it was an incredible value for what I was getting, but still cost more than some bikes do brand new.

    I like to tinker with my bikes. I buy stuff I don't need. I mostly do all of my own work. Because I enjoy it. But at the end of the day, riding is what I love, no matter what bike I am on or how much it costs.

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    The rise of the $400-600 CAD cassette has been a bit of a gut check moment.... I mean, it's great to have all those speeds, but.... still.

    Of course, I'm also getting older and angrier as time passes, and that might be clouding my vision of ..... modern bicycle technical excellence and value?
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    started this about 2 years ago (53 years old) on a 450.00 bike which I thought was crazy for a bike. Now, @ 55 and buying bikes that cost many thousands of dollars. I am in so much better shape that it seems cheap, way cheaper than a triple bypass anyway.
    just my .02
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    Anyone have an apples-to-apples comparison to make? I am trying to think of a common denominator, but it's hard to make since bikes change so much. I have a hunch that the bike you can buy for $1000 today is MUCH better than what you could get for $1000 a decade ago. Keep in mind, 2009 was ten years ago now!

  14. #14
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    meh. then don't upgrade your stuff?

    Once I buy something, I mostly don't "upgrade" it just for the helluvit. I ride it till it's dead and I maintain it until then. MTB is my hobby, so I'll spend some money for nice stuff that will last and be easily serviceable. I also expect to keep the stuff I buy for awhile. I'm not going to buy something only to get tired of it in 6mo or a year and then replace it with something else. I tend to be more thoughtful of my initial purchases so I'm sure they'll work for me long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    It's not like I'm poor, I can afford to get whatever my heart desires, but I'm not willing to pay the price the bike industry is asking.

    I can't relate to this. If I could afford to get whatever I wanted I'd buy everything that I want. I love cycling and immensely enjoy what I have but can only drool over some stuff that I'd like to have.

    If anything new tech has made cycling even more interesting even if I can't afford it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Anyone have an apples-to-apples comparison to make? I am trying to think of a common denominator, but it's hard to make since bikes change so much. I have a hunch that the bike you can buy for $1000 today is MUCH better than what you could get for $1000 a decade ago. Keep in mind, 2009 was ten years ago now!
    Can't speak to $1000 price range ten years ago, but how about $700 16 years ago? Hardtail with an air fork, 26" wheels, cable rim brakes, quick release skewers, probably a 75 degree head angle or something similarly ridiculous. Today $700 gets you any number of 29ers with hydraulic disc brakes, trail geometries and thru-axles.

    By comparison, a $700 bike in 2003 was essentially a similar build to a $100 Wal-Mart bike today. (Not in quality sure, but as far as the technology.)

    It's all relative so I can't say that means bikes have gotten cheaper, but I can say that getting a good experience on the trail (or at least a bike that gives you the best shot at it) is cheaper today than it was then.

  17. #17
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    I've always been a high end admirer, but never a buyer. Biking is a hobby, not the only one and among responsibilities that need funding. I'm perfectly happy buying used or a few years old. The one thing that has annoyed me lately isn't the cost, but the many current standards for hubs, BBs, etc. I can't keep up!
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Years ago I was really into buying and selling guitar gear. I would play all the time, but only when I was testing a new piece of gear or configuration. Now looking back I wasn't into playing guitar, I was into guitar gear. I still pick up an acoustic once a week or so, but it's not really a hobby of mine anymore.

    My point is that if what makes you want to ride is a new piece of gear then this may not be a passion of yours. Something like RC cars or similar where gear fiddling is a more integral part of the hobby might be better.

    I'm really not trying to be diminutive, there's nothing wrong with it if biking isn't for you, but that's my honest reaction. I love to ride. I honestly don't care about bikes, upgrades and all that. Obviously I do what I can to keep a decent ride under me, but the only gear question that determines my excitement for riding is 'does my bike work?' If it does, I'm pumped and I love every second I get to be out riding.

    Do you dig? Trail building can help bring a new appreciation for the sport. Nothing better than riding a trail you built, or even just a spot you maintained.

    Good luck!


    They aren't going to make biking more fun for you.
    I hear you, I was thinking the same thing. Do i ride because I enjoy riding or do I ride just to test out new gear? Welp, I realized I do both. I ride because I enjoy going out and being free in nature and I ride to keep me in good physical shape. I also like toys and playing with new ones. Part of what kept biking interesting to me was trying out new toys. Another thing that's occured to me is I've ridden the trails around here hundreds of times so I know my area on a bike like the back of my hand, so admittedly the thrill of discovery is a little lost for me. I look forward to epic trips in undiscovered territory. Having a new bike toy sort of made up for some of that also.

    Lately I've picked up a fishing rod and some tackle and even mounted a rod holder on my bike to make my trips a little more interesting. I've gotten to the point where I leave the bike at home and just hike around my local lake with my rod. The trails I've been riding for years have suddenly become new territory for me again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Anyone have an apples-to-apples comparison to make? I am trying to think of a common denominator, but it's hard to make since bikes change so much. I have a hunch that the bike you can buy for $1000 today is MUCH better than what you could get for $1000 a decade ago. Keep in mind, 2009 was ten years ago now!
    One thing that comes to mind is the price of helmets. Backin 2006 the average cost of a decent MTB helmet was about $40. $70 tops. Today they go for as much as $300 with the average being about $70 for decent helmet. Materials haven't changed much.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    I'm happy with my bikes. But I still have not tried boost or eagle 12 speed or carbon wheels, or gone with an orange fork (Which i really really want).. I can afford them, I just don't feel the price is worth it.
    Same, aside from 148. I have no problem with incremental changes, because I donít feel that I need to make them to my current bike, or update it as anything changes. When I decide to get a new bike, things will be different. I canít say it bothers me that much. Most people donít update or replace their cars or phones every year. I donít see bikes as that different.

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    I bought a CCDB in 2007 for $1000. It costs the same today. The fork that's on that bike bought in 2011 also cost a grand; the same as all the high end forks today. That bike rides like a dream and I have no real reason to get another except I want another bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Same, aside from 148. I have no problem with incremental changes, because I donít feel that I need to make them to my current bike, or update it as anything changes. When I decide to get a new bike, things will be different. I canít say it bothers me that much. Most people donít update or replace their cars or phones every year. I donít see bikes as that different.
    In the past I probably would have considered getting 12 speed or even carbon wheels as an upgrade to my bike. But considering my bike isn't boost, spending that kind of money on throw away parts seems like a waste. And I'm not looking to buy a new bike anytime soon. Same with buying an non boost orange fork.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    I hear you, I was thinking the same thing. Do i ride because I enjoy riding or do I ride just to test out new gear? Welp, I realized I do both. I ride because I enjoy going out and being free in nature and I ride to keep me in good physical shape. I also like toys and playing with new ones. Part of what kept biking interesting to me was trying out new toys. Another thing that's occured to me is I've ridden the trails around here hundreds of times so I know my area on a bike like the back of my hand, so admittedly the thrill of discovery is a little lost for me. I look forward to epic trips in undiscovered territory. Having a new bike toy sort of made up for some of that also.

    Lately I've picked up a fishing rod and some tackle and even mounted a rod holder on my bike to make my trips a little more interesting. I've gotten to the point where I leave the bike at home and just hike around my local lake with my rod. The trails I've been riding for years have suddenly become new territory for me again.
    Ya whatever you gotta do to keep it fresh. I go through periods of trying to be fast, trying to hit big features, trying to take cool pictures, trying to scout out cool areas off trail I haven't before, etc... I've been riding the same local system for fifteen years and still get excited every time I head out, but it's different every time.

    Maybe work out some interesting goals for yourself like riding new areas, riding new styles, bikepacking, riding to fish, training for a new race, etc. Trying to 'keep it fresh' with gear sounds expensive and exhausting.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    Ya whatever you gotta do to keep it fresh. I go through periods of trying to be fast, trying to hit big features, trying to take cool pictures, trying to scout out cool areas off trail I haven't before, etc... I've been riding the same local system for fifteen years and still get excited every time I head out, but it's different every time.

    Maybe work out some interesting goals for yourself like riding new areas, riding new styles, bikepacking, riding to fish, training for a new race, etc. Trying to 'keep it fresh' with gear sounds expensive and exhausting.
    Yep.. I've been through the photography phase too even bought a drone. Got into free riding and jumps, I'm able to manual and wheelie a good distance now. Bike packing sounds like fun. I'd like to set a goal of doing a race every year or training for an epic ride out west, just need to get some riding buddies on board with the idea to make it work.
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    My philosophy around bikes, and my other hobbies is it must bring me joy.

    If I can go out and ride by 2017 Intense SPider 275 with a 2x10 drive train and enjoy myself, chat with my buddies and get a good workout, I am happy when I get home.

    Recently I destroyed my rear derailleur, it was a Shimano SLX. I went to the shop to order a replacement one and due to the shift to 1x transmissions the SLX was no longer available in a 10 speed configuration. I had the option to drop over $300 to change to a 1x12, and that sounded great..... but I realized I could just spend $70 and buy a Shimano XT 10-speed and a cable and be back on the bike for less than $100.... so I did that.

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  26. #26
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    I went the opposite direction on my last bike purchase, rigid single speed.

    My full suspension is a 2014; outdated and not high end at all, though I have upgraded some of the parts including the brakes, fork and added a dropper. But buying carbon wheels or going to 12 speed just isn't going to give me much, if any, return on investment.

    All my road bikes are high end steel, from around 2002, bought them all used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    . Now looking back I wasn't into playing guitar, I was into guitar gear.
    100%.

    This is a shopper issue, not a rider issue.
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  28. #28
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    My full suspension is nine years old, but everything is top shelf and the geo is current. It's even cool again with coil front and rear. I'm not going to kick it out of bed for the 26" wheels or the 1X9 drivetrain.

    I've been mountain biking long enough to where I know better than the industry of what I want/need. I know I don't want or need 1X12.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I know I don't want or need 1X12.
    11 was perfect. On my second 12 now and it is way more maintenance for an insignificant gain.

  30. #30
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    I've found that servicing suspension, brake bleeds, tire swaps, etc. . . give me about the same level of "new part stoke" as buying actual new parts, at minimal cost. The novelty of any new part seems to wear off pretty quickly for me.

    Also, riding at night really spices up trails that I (thought I) knew like the back of my hand. Totally different experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    I've found that servicing suspension, brake bleeds, tire swaps, etc. . . give me about the same level of "new part stoke" as buying actual new parts, at minimal cost. The novelty of any new part seems to wear off pretty quickly for me.

    Also, riding at night really spices up trails that I (thought I) knew like the back of my hand. Totally different experience.
    That reminds me of the days when I used to spend hours in my basement bike shop tinkering with my builds. I built all of my bikes and wheels from scratch, learning the art of setting up ghetto tubelss, and spend hours upon hours thinking up the slightest modification to my my ride a little better or a little cooler. I got as much satisfaction in making my ride a little better as I did riding my custom creations around the trails. Luckily for me I've never made a catastrophic mistake that caused any major damage while learning the trade. I don't spend as much downstairs any more. I'll do some minor adjustments or repairs now and then but nothing like swapping out drivetrains, wheels or forks like I did with regularity in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    I've found that servicing suspension, brake bleeds, tire swaps, etc. . . give me about the same level of "new part stoke" as buying actual new parts, at minimal cost. The novelty of any new part seems to wear off pretty quickly for me.

    Also, riding at night really spices up trails that I (thought I) knew like the back of my hand. Totally different experience.
    Even something at minor as new grips brings new life into your ride.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser View Post
    The rise of the $400-600 CAD cassette has been a bit of a gut check moment.... I mean, it's great to have all those speeds, but.... still.
    Yep. That is the one that has gotten out of control. Even the "cheap" cassettes are insanely expensive.

    I am hoping that when Shimano comes out with 12-speed XT/SLX we will start to see reasonable pricing.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    One thing that comes to mind is the price of helmets. Backin 2006 the average cost of a decent MTB helmet was about $40. $70 tops. Today they go for as much as $300 with the average being about $70 for decent helmet. Materials haven't changed much.
    You were not aware of expensive helmets. I remember paying $170 wholesale (retail $300) for a Giro helmet in 2000.
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  36. #36
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    Prices don't bother me. There are reasonably priced parts and bikes so just about anyone can get out there and ride. What bugs me is all the different "standards" and things like internal cable routing which just make working on your bike a PITA. "Back in the day" it was easy to keep a bike going for 10 years or more. Now everything becomes obsolete in a few years due to all these new "standards".
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    Also, riding at night really spices up trails that I (thought I) knew like the back of my hand. Totally different experience.
    Indeed it does! besides the cold, i love the difference when heading out in the trails at night during the winter.
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  38. #38
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    I think if you stay w/in budget then is not expensive. I did something similar to Chaz where I sold my FS to fund my Krampus. I'm selling two bikes I really don't use much to help fund the next one. With N+1 the wear and tear is much less, so I'm not constantly upgrading, and this year with the rain and work, its been tough to ride.

    Riding is really my only outlet, so what I spend on it doesn't hurt. Cheaper than a shrink!
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    No, cost doesn't really enter the equation for me. Life is too short for s**t bikes. Yes its expensive, but its my only hobby/vice, I'm really passionate abut it, and i don't/won't have any kids to feed. Electric gears, gearboxes, carbon everything, bring it on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    Yep. That is the one that has gotten out of control. Even the "cheap" cassettes are insanely expensive.

    I am hoping that when Shimano comes out with 12-speed XT/SLX we will start to see reasonable pricing.
    The problem is, the two largest cogs on gx and nx are 42 and 50 tooth. This is a larger "ring" than on a double or even a triple. How to keep weight down then? You can't achieve a reasonable cassette weight without increasing costs exponentially.

    High torque, low speed shifting between chainrings is far from ideal, I admit that. Then again, neither is paying an additional $300 or $400 for a 12 speed cassette.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    11 was perfect. On my second 12 now and it is way more maintenance for an insignificant gain.
    I was demoing a canyon neuron at sea otter, and the first climb looked like a wall straight up. I thought "whew, glad I have eagle!" The climb was steep enough that I was concerned about keeping the front wheel planted.

    I looked down to see what gear I was in. I was climbing easily so I figured I was in the 42 cog. To my surprise, I was in the middle of the cassette! There was no chance of my running out of gears. I tend to believe that a 46 tooth cog should be sufficient for most any riding situation. It might be a relief to have access to a 50 cog if you are really hammered at the end of a ride, but a 30x24 or 30x28 are objectively speaking, very low gears.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    Been an avid cyclist since 2006. I participated in the local bike races and events and take my kids to the local community bike rides. I'm active in the local bike community and know many of the local riders in my area. But recently I've just been kind of ho-hum about biking. As we all know new gear always makes biking more interesting, but with the price of gear getting progressively more expensive seemingly for little to no reason I've been reticent to upgrade anything as nothing I own seems to warrant spending the exorbitantly expensive costs. I still ride for fun but the enjoyment I used to get from getting new gear it no longer attainable at the economic prices that the bike industry has set. It's not like I'm poor, I can afford to get whatever my heart desires, but I'm not willing to pay the price the bike industry is asking.
    I find that if you are feeling ho hum with mountain biking the trick is to not upgrade but downgrade. Ride your usual trails but do it on a hardtail, or a singlespeed or a rigid bike. Changing up the difficulty can greatly increase your enjoyment. Heck porsche figured this out a long time ago and now you pay more money to get less conveniences in your car because they know enthusiasts will pay extra to get more experience. It is much easier for mountain biking though. Hardtails are cheap. Bikes are relatively to convert to singlespeed still. Rigid forks are available.

    Chasing the latest and greatest is a let down because there will always be something better around the corner. Changing the experience will increase your skills and your grin factor.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    ...Chasing the latest and greatest is a let down because there will always be something better around the corner. ....
    Perhaps it's the journey, not the destination. Judging by some of the threads in the manufacturers' forums, rather than having the latest and greatest, it's anticipating and chasing what's around the corner that's the most fun.
    Do the math.

  43. #43
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    I feel like bikes havenít gotten cheaper, but theyíve increased significantly in *value*.

    The dollar buys more bike now than I did when I started riding in the early 90s.


    I donít think PARTS have increased in value.

    I mean, $1k+ forks are common, $300 cassettes as part of $1500 drivetrains, $500 carbon cranks that donít include chainrings or bottom brackets. Hell, there are $200 saddles that arenít even carbon-railed.

    A dropper can be over $400.

    Not everything has to be that expensive, obviously, but it seems that the ďal a carteĒ parts have been a victim of price creep.

    Yeah, I get it... a Shimano SLX drivetrain works better than the ancient STX, but itís double the price despite the fact XT and XTR remain above it.

    Itís kinda crazy how much money can be sunk into a custom build when you start getting into it, even at XT-level, way before Di2 and fancy carbon.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I find that if you are feeling ho hum with mountain biking the trick is to not upgrade but downgrade. Ride your usual trails but do it on a hardtail, or a singlespeed or a rigid bike. Changing up the difficulty can greatly increase your enjoyment. Heck porsche figured this out a long time ago and now you pay more money to get less conveniences in your car because they know enthusiasts will pay extra to get more experience. It is much easier for mountain biking though. Hardtails are cheap. Bikes are relatively to convert to singlespeed still. Rigid forks are available.

    Chasing the latest and greatest is a let down because there will always be something better around the corner. Changing the experience will increase your skills and your grin factor.
    Yep been there too. Rode a single speed full rigid 29er for years. It was my main ride. Loved the simplicity and light weight. It was deceivingly easy to ride. Hooked it up with a nice ti Boone cog and a fancy gold chain. Once I bought my first carbon full suspension bike I never went back. The plushness off and carbon is like riding a magic carpet over rough chunky stuff. I still miss riding SS rigid but my yeti asr is as close as it gets to that kind of ride without getting kicked in the ass going downhill

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Anyone have an apples-to-apples comparison to make? I am trying to think of a common denominator, but it's hard to make since bikes change so much. I have a hunch that the bike you can buy for $1000 today is MUCH better than what you could get for $1000 a decade ago. Keep in mind, 2009 was ten years ago now!
    Closest I have, is my 1996 Trek Y33.
    USA made full carbon frame, full XT groupset, included PD-M747 pedals, 75mm travel.
    24.5 lb, $3199.

    Let's inflate that to 2019 dollars, and we get $5120.
    So, let's jump to Treks current top end XC race bike.

    2019 Top Fuel 9.9
    Taiwan made carbon frame and stays.
    SRAM XX1 groupset
    Taiwan made carbon bars and other components
    No pedals
    100mm travel
    22.0 lb
    Price? $8800

    Do the changes (12 speed 1x, carbon parts, Taiwan made frame) warrant over $3700 in extra cost over inflation?

    I dunno.....

  46. #46
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    That's capitalism. Someone is willing to pay that much, so that's what it's worth. If no one was paying that much, they'd be in big financial trouble.

    The world has changed in a thousand ways in the past 10-15 years.

    What did a top of the line cell phone cost in 1996 compared to a $1000 smart phone today? Is it worth the price difference?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Do the changes (12 speed 1x, carbon parts, Taiwan made frame) warrant over $3700 in extra cost over inflation?

    I dunno.....
    The measurables are part of it, but not the whole story. How do the two bikes ride, compared side by side? How well do they hold adjustments? I can tell you which one I'd prefer to ride based on geometry and fit alone.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    Been an avid cyclist since 2006. I participated in the local bike races and events and take my kids to the local community bike rides. I'm active in the local bike community and know many of the local riders in my area. But recently I've just been kind of ho-hum about biking. As we all know new gear always makes biking more interesting, but with the price of gear getting progressively more expensive seemingly for little to no reason I've been reticent to upgrade anything as nothing I own seems to warrant spending the exorbitantly expensive costs. I still ride for fun but the enjoyment I used to get from getting new gear it no longer attainable at the economic prices that the bike industry has set. It's not like I'm poor, I can afford to get whatever my heart desires, but I'm not willing to pay the price the bike industry is asking.
    The enjoyment and interest for me never came from the new gear, even when I worked in and owned bike shops. My enjoyment comes from riding my old bikes with those who are riding the new gear. In the past 11 months I have put nearly 1500 miles on an 11 year old mountain bike that I bought for $300 last year, and have probably enjoyed that bike as much as anything else I own. The cost of replacement and wear items on my 1x9 bikes and my 2x10 bikes is relatively inexpensive.

    My solutions to the semi-regular ho hum riding doldrums i suffer include registering for an event for which I have to get miles in to prepare, traveling to ride something new, or just riding with friends instead of my typical solo rides. Any one of those is usually enough to fire me up again, along with the opportunity to take a bunch of photos.

  49. #49
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    No....its just peoples incomes haven't increased to follow inflation since way before 2006
    EXODUX Jeff

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The measurables are part of it, but not the whole story. How do the two bikes ride, compared side by side? How well do they hold adjustments? I can tell you which one I'd prefer to ride based on geometry and fit alone.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Agreed.

    I had just been talking to my brother about this last week.
    We went through chains like crazy, constantly had wheel issues, braking issues due to wheel issues, flat tires, HORRIBlE suspension (elastomers!!!), And other things besides the bikes capability.

    Modern bikes ARE superior, without a doubt. BUT, are the highest end bikes worth the massive extra price?
    Indeed, that is capitalism. Some will say yes, some will say no!

  51. #51
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    Answer to OP question "No. "

    Bikes are better and cheaper overall.

    Totally ok with $300-400 for a Revive or GD post, gamechangers for me. However, would say the opposite had I bought a brand that constantly needed work.

    Love drop-stop, but otherwise not a big fan of less range from 1X. I don't chase the next massive rear cog. Have a granny still on front, shift manually for the occasional 15%+grade.

    I have yet to buy a new carbon frame. Nothing against them, just felt that Aluminum became a much better value as a result.

    Don't like fewer frame only options recently.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  52. #52
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    Like many people have already said, the cost of low-end bikes has not changed much at all in the last 20 years, and bikes are so much better for the same price these days that a $1000 hardtail now is better than a $4000 bike from 1999 in every way other than weighing a couple pounds more. If you want a decent bike for $400, there are lots of options. $400 would not get you a trail-worthy bike in 1999.

    I'm not even sure that the high end has gotten more expensive, as there were plenty of $10,000+ bikes 20 years ago. What people perceive as getting more expensive is really the perception that $3500 is the sweet spot. If you want a base carbon model with fancy Kashima suspension, dropper, and 12-speed drivetrain, you're going to pay more. There was nothing comparable to that in 1999, so it's a bargain if you look at it that way.

    Finally, how can anybody be losing interest in mountain biking because of the pricing? There are so many options at every price point that almost anybody can find a bike in their price range to fit their NEEDS. Maybe not wants, but needs.

  53. #53
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    Absolutely, 100% agree with Harold here. As the saying goes spend once and buy good, or spend 2 or 3 times buying a cheaper/lesser option.

    Upgrade when you need to, not just because the industry has released some new, shiny product and is telling you, you absolutely need to have it, backed by sites and reviewers who benefit from backing that BS up I only just moved to 10spd in 2016 and plan to stick with it for as long as I can get parts. Only reason I made the move was to gain the clutch and help quiet down the chain and help reduce chains dropping/jumping off and 10spd does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    meh. then don't upgrade your stuff?

    Once I buy something, I mostly don't "upgrade" it just for the helluvit. I ride it till it's dead and I maintain it until then. MTB is my hobby, so I'll spend some money for nice stuff that will last and be easily serviceable. I also expect to keep the stuff I buy for awhile. I'm not going to buy something only to get tired of it in 6mo or a year and then replace it with something else. I tend to be more thoughtful of my initial purchases so I'm sure they'll work for me long term.
    You messed up dude, you should have bought the 11spd either SLX or XT, probably for cheaper, would work perfectly fine with the rest of your 10spd drivetrain and then if down the road you wanted to upgrade, already have the RD. I run this setup and it let's m,e run a 40 or 42t expander cog on my 11-36 cassette and use it mainly as a 1x setup paired with my 2 rings upfront (32/36) minus the FD and shifter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    .............recently I destroyed my rear derailleur, it was a Shimano SLX. I went to the shop to order a replacement one and due to the shift to 1x transmissions the SLX was no longer available in a 10 speed configuration. I had the option to drop over $300 to change to a 1x12, and that sounded great..... but I realized I could just spend $70 and buy a Shimano XT 10-speed and a cable and be back on the bike for less than $100.... so I did that.

    Does it make you happy? If yes, buy it, if you are not sure, skip it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    meh. then don't upgrade your stuff?

    Once I buy something, I mostly don't "upgrade" it just for the helluvit. I ride it till it's dead and I maintain it until then. MTB is my hobby, so I'll spend some money for nice stuff that will last and be easily serviceable. I also expect to keep the stuff I buy for awhile. I'm not going to buy something only to get tired of it in 6mo or a year and then replace it with something else. I tend to be more thoughtful of my initial purchases so I'm sure they'll work for me long term.
    Again, absolutely agree with this point and it's exactly what I did about a year or so ago. I basically finally upgraded my rigid frame from an '08 Monkey to an '18 Unit and then just started riding it almost exclusively over my nice 130/140mm travel bike. It did several things, it proved where my skills were and were they needed to be improved, no suspension to hide bad lines etc. It made trails that seemed to have gotten easier, a bit of a challenge again. The biggest thing it showed me is that all the modern BS about you need the latest and greatest and suspension, is ABSOLUTE BS, I can ride every single trail, up to the steepest and most technical on the rigid vs FS, just a bit slower and with a lot more concentration on the riding, which is why I ride in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    I find that if you are feeling ho hum with mountain biking the trick is to not upgrade but downgrade. Ride your usual trails but do it on a hardtail, or a singlespeed or a rigid bike. Changing up the difficulty can greatly increase your enjoyment. Heck porsche figured this out a long time ago and now you pay more money to get less conveniences in your car because they know enthusiasts will pay extra to get more experience. It is much easier for mountain biking though. Hardtails are cheap. Bikes are relatively to convert to singlespeed still. Rigid forks are available.

    Chasing the latest and greatest is a let down because there will always be something better around the corner. Changing the experience will increase your skills and your grin factor.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  54. #54
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    Sports like mountain biking, road cycling, triathlon, and such have been taken over by middle aged yuppies. Yuppies do what yuppies gonna do, which basically breaks down to douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. The market is pleased to accommodate. Thus we get $500 bib shorts, $600 shoes, $200 jerseys, $10k bikes. Anyone trying to make the argument that bicycle is justified in costing as much as motorbikes is a moron. The prices have nothing to do with the cost of manufacture or R&D or "high tech" materials or any other BS excuse people make. This is a luxury market and the prices are simply what (some) people are willing to pay. In fact the high end stuff are Veblen goods; the high price itself makes the good more desirable than a lower priced good. Aside from what others think, buying a high priced item brings satisfaction to the owner because of the high price paid. Again this comes down to douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags, even if the douchebag impressed is the buyer.

    That said there is some really cool stuff out there. It is not worth the money and usually does not make financial sense but it's really nice. I am not going to drop $200 on a jersey made from a square yard of cloth but I really like my Pivot, even though it did cost way more than I should have spent. Things could be worse. Instead of buying a bike while keeping my old Subaru, I could do what everyone else around seems to do and throw my money down the crapper by leasing a new BMW every three years.

  55. #55
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    Another question to add is maintenance : are the parts now more durable than 20 years ago ?

    12 speeds gruppo shifts better than 3X9 but do they last longer ?

    You have to add that to the cost of your brand new and very expensive bike
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyAboveDirtBelow View Post
    Sports like mountain biking, road cycling, triathlon, and such have been taken over by middle aged yuppies. Yuppies do what yuppies gonna do, which basically breaks down to douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. The market is pleased to accommodate. Thus we get $500 bib shorts, $600 shoes, $200 jerseys, $10k bikes. Anyone trying to make the argument that bicycle is justified in costing as much as motorbikes is a moron. The prices have nothing to do with the cost of manufacture or R&D or "high tech" materials or any other BS excuse people make. This is a luxury market and the prices are simply what (some) people are willing to pay. In fact the high end stuff are Veblen goods; the high price itself makes the good more desirable than a lower priced good. Aside from what others think, buying a high priced item brings satisfaction to the owner because of the high price paid. Again this comes down to douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags, even if the douchebag impressed is the buyer.

    That said there is some really cool stuff out there. It is not worth the money and usually does not make financial sense but it's really nice. I am not going to drop $200 on a jersey made from a square yard of cloth but I really like my Pivot, even though it did cost way more than I should have spent. Things could be worse. Instead of buying a bike while keeping my old Subaru, I could do what everyone else around seems to do and throw my money down the crapper by leasing a new BMW every three years.
    That's an excessively jaded way to look at it.

    Not to mention, the motorbike comparison is trotted out so often that it's been shot to hell.

    When it comes to bicycles, low production numbers cost more. Miniaturization (producing the same part, only smaller) costs more. High precision costs more. I would argue that the ceiling on mountain bike performance has increased to a greater degree since the early 1980's or so as compared to motorcycles. It makes sense, since motorcycles were already pretty mature then, and mountain bikes were only just at their inception.

    So nice that you think that people who have money to spend on bikes are all douchebags. Do you put yourself into that category, since you bought a Pivot? What about people who save for months and years and work extra hours and odd jobs to buy a nice bike because they love riding?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    But recently I've just been kind of ho-hum about biking. As we all know new gear always makes biking more interesting... I still ride for fun but the enjoyment I used to get from getting new gear it no longer attainable at the economic prices that the bike industry has set.
    It sounds like you're more interested in bike shopping vs. actual bike riding.

  59. #59
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    No. I'm willing to pay to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjanywhere View Post
    It sounds like you're more interested in bike shopping vs. actual bike riding.
    Get back to me after you read the whole thread and my responses.

  61. #61
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    I wouldnít say that prices have made me ho-hum, but lately Iíve been questioning why I feel the need to upgrade parts at all. I love working on my bike, and I suppose installing parts is part of the fun, but it does get expensive. And I wonder how much of a performance benefit Iím really getting for the dollars.

    My current two bikes are nice, but donít have super high end parts on them. But Iíve decided to leave them alone for the most part. I upgraded the wheels on one, and the fork on the other, and may switch handlebars. But not touching the drivetrain or brakes until needed.

    Iím kind of at the point where I just want to ride and not think about components that much.
    Last edited by Space Robot; 1 Week Ago at 12:27 PM.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Another question to add is maintenance : are the parts now more durable than 20 years ago ?

    12 speeds gruppo shifts better than 3X9 but do they last longer ?

    You have to add that to the cost of your brand new and very expensive bike
    Good point. I think it has to do with riding style and what is now considered mountain biking. New equipment makes riding harder trails faster and easier, at the cost of price and durability. An old steel rigid will last forever, a carbon squish that cost 50+ times more will not.

    What you want to ride on that old rigid is not really considered mountain biking nowadays though. The old sport is still out there and is cheaper than ever. Keeping up with the new mountain biking is 100 times more expensive and involves ever chainging standards etc. Ride what you want. You can always go back in time, but trying to get ahead to the future of tech is very pricey.

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    Just to add, I used to do regular upgrades to test out new bike setups like ghetto tubeless, wider rims, beefier thrilled thru access Axels, new tires. This does not make me a shopper, more of a tinkerer. I enjoyed that aspect of biking. Experimenting with new gear to see what works best. Seeing the differences first hand and testing out new innovations. I think another aspect of my qualms is that the the innovations have be less than substantial lately, at least in the last 5 years while prices have been steadily climbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    That's an excessively jaded way to look at it.

    Not to mention, the motorbike comparison is trotted out so often that it's been shot to hell.

    When it comes to bicycles, low production numbers cost more. Miniaturization (producing the same part, only smaller) costs more. High precision costs more. I would argue that the ceiling on mountain bike performance has increased to a greater degree since the early 1980's or so as compared to motorcycles. It makes sense, since motorcycles were already pretty mature then, and mountain bikes were only just at their inception.

    So nice that you think that people who have money to spend on bikes are all douchebags. Do you put yourself into that category, since you bought a Pivot? What about people who save for months and years and work extra hours and odd jobs to buy a nice bike because they love riding?
    Yup. I work as a software engineer, have zero debt, and I am single. I can buy whatever mountain bike stuff I want. I don't delude myself into thinking that beyond a certain level--and with modern gear that level is quite affordable--it does not become an example of conspicuous consumption. I am okay with that; sometimes it is good to treat yourself to things that don't make financial sense. It is what it is, but it is ironic in mountain biking because this is a sport where skill and experience are way way more important than gear. At least triathletes can fool themselves into thinking it will make a difference to their lives if they spend $10K+ to gain a few seconds per forty kilometers, allowing them to move up from fortieth place to thirty-ninth. Mountain bikers cannot BS themselves into believing they would have cleaned a section if they spent more money on their ride.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    No....its just peoples incomes haven't increased to follow inflation since way before 2006
    Mine has.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Mine has.
    My 18 year old son brings home the same amount as I did when I was 18 31 years ago. $13 bucks an hour, and gas was 99cents then and my rent $350. Gas is over $4 and rent is $1400.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  67. #67
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    Looks like you have some pretty nice bikes. What upgrades do you believe would have a significant positive impact on your riding experience?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    My 18 year old son brings home the same amount as I did when I was 18 31 years ago. $13 bucks an hour, and gas was 99cents then and my rent $350. Gas is over $4 and rent is $1400.
    Do you still make $13 an hour?

    When I was 18, 33 years ago, I was killing myself for $8 an hour, gas was $1.20 and rent was $800. Now I make more than 5x that, gas is $2.60 and my mortgage is less than $1200, and there are $15 an hour entry level jobs falling from the trees.

    Maybe it's a regional thing.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Do you still make $13 an hour?

    When I was 18, 33 years ago, I was killing myself for $8 an hour, gas was $1.20 and rent was $800. Now I make more than 5x that, gas is $2.60 and my mortgage is less than $1200, and there are $15 an hour entry level jobs falling from the trees.

    Maybe it's a regional thing.
    I've been retired for 4.5 years. But I was 20 tears old in 1990 getting $15 an hour. That's about right for here in Southern California for entry level. My son lives in rural Oregon.

    Now here in the Mountains, you get min wage to $15(+insurance) for thirty years of skilled experience for the privledge of not having to commute off the mountain. The only way out of that is to run your own show, or get into a utility or fire service through nepotism.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  70. #70
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    Thread derail that I will probably regret: I got a college degree right after high school in 2000 and didn't make more than $15 an hour until I was in my mid-30s just three years ago. Times have changed.

    I get the impression that people who reached adulthood in generations before me didn't have to work so hard for so long with so little result. Fortunately, I finished school before secondary education costs exploded, because I didn't have student loans to pay off. People in the next few years did. Nice bicycles have always seemed like an extravagant luxury for rich people to me. I don't know how people younger than myself can afford much of anything the the high cost of education and the crap wages many of them get. (Sorry for the unoriginal rant about the economy and stuff.)

    The sense I get from threads like this, whether it is warranted or not, is that mountain biking is being golfified so that it mostly attracts middle age dentist types. That might not be the case at all, but we have to wonder what the impression of exclusivity does long-term to the industry and trail advocacy. If young, working class people with families simply can't afford to even consider getting into mountain biking because they can't, or precieve they can't, afford to get into it at all, who is going to support the industry, get involved in racing/ events and maintain trails a decade from now? I've discussed this with a few such friends and they think I am out of my mind when I say they should consider spending more than $400 on a bicycle. They skip it and just stick to hiking.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 1 Week Ago at 06:05 PM.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Thread derail: I got a college degree right after high school in 2000 and didn't make more than $15 an hour until I was in my mid-30s. Times have changed.
    I don't have a post high school education and was running a business with little overhead making well into the seven figures while living like a pauper and stacking savings in my mid 30s. I'v always tested extremely high in school but hated it. I wanted to get straight to work. I regret it sometimes missing out on the college experience.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Thread derail: I got a college degree right after high school in 2000 and didn't make more than $15 an hour until I was in my mid-30s. Times have changed.

    I get the impression that people who reached adulthood in generations before me didn't have to work so hard for so long with so little result. Fortunately, I finished school before secondary education costs exploded, because I didn't have student loans to pay off. People in the next few years did. Nice bicycles have always seemed like an extravagant luxury for rich people to me. I don't know how people younger than myself can afford much of anything the the high cost of education and the crap wages many of them get.
    My wife and I were talking to her parents a while back about her grandparents.

    They were both Polish immigrants who didnít finish HS. Worked factory floor, non-management positions at a non/union, pension candy factory in Chicago. They both walked to work. At one point, they owned two nice homes and a large, undeveloped piece of property near Miami, IIRC. They are now both in their 90s, living in a very nice in the Front Range.

    Their yearly incomes, adjusted for inflation, are higher than we will likely make until we are 40 or more. They retired in their late 40s. For context, my wife has a BA, MA, PhD and JD. I have a BS and MS, and was managing 40 people and tens of millions of dollars of equipment in my late 20s. We both have jobs that we enjoy, challenge us and provide a sense of fulfillment. And based on our peer groups, neither of us are at all overqualified for the jobs we have.

    Her grandparents donít understand why we donít own a home, and why we donít have children yet. My wife has tried to explain some basic economic theory (wages vs inflation trends for example), but they donít want to hear the answers she provides.




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  73. #73
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    lots of 1st World problems here....

    On topic:
    adjusted for inflation and the features and better technology, bicycles got much cheaper like many things. in addition now you also can get much better deals with online etc.

    Every industry has some boutique items that have less value per extra $ spent. The very best golf clubs, the most powerful motorbikes, the best laser scopes for hunters, the largest boats, the fastest convertibles...

    But most beginners have so little skill that 99% of their lack in riding is the rider and not the best suspension or lightest rim. Obviously they sometimes get top of the shelf bikes, and that is what seems expensive. but it doesn't have to be.

    I myself realized that as things wear out, or I need to fit better, i spend money. I buy noname clothes, and medium level hardware (always better than the piece it replaces, but not XTR stuff). It just cost money and my biggest fear is that I don't ride enough to justify the cost.

    This year I started logging miles and "pay" myself 10ct per km for my hybrid and 15ct per km for my fatbike. I also add money I make by selling old parts, which is minor. I also made a list of things I "want" and don't buy them before I "made" enough money by riding. If there was an emergency purchase that I need to keep riding (say need new chain and my account is empty) I go in debt on my spreadsheet. But I try to always have $100 in there.

    Funny thing is, if I postpone my "wants" I realize I don't really need them and may remove them from the list. For example I wanted to add a CF fork to my fatbike, but realized the steelfork does the same and the little weight saving isn't what slows me down.

    I also try to schedule my upgrades around X-mas. Not a money reason, but my daughter insists to give me presents and so I buy something I want that my wife can give her to give me.... beats them buying crap I don't want. That delaying of upgrades also filters out more impulse purchases.
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  74. #74
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    I like to think of myself as the "SLX" level type of guy. Mid range, not hundreds or thousands of $$ but works like a charm.

    That's how I've come to learn to enjoy steel bikes like Surly and Kona. They don't break your bank but are solid, and FUN for whatever green/blue trails I ride.
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    In 2001 I got a Marin Juniper Trail for $2100. It was one level below their full xc race bike at the time. 3x9 xtr, 80 mm Manitou Mars Elite fork, alloy frame, etc. I rode that bike for 7 years until I drove it into a garage.

    $2100 in 2001 is ~$3000 in todayís dollars. Manitou doesn't make a comparable hard tail so I compared to trek. A procaliber 9.6 is $2600, carbon frame, 1x12 NX, rockshox recon. All that stuff will work way better than the ďhigher levelĒ components I had in 01. Performance trumps what the stickers say.
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    It doesn't really matter how much the top end bikes cost. Most everyone answering wouldn't even consider buying one. Everyone here will do their own build to get something better for them at a much lower price. Used, sale or internet stuff from Germany will be where the parts come from. And the frame will be discounted or used.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It doesn't really matter how much the top end bikes cost. Most everyone answering wouldn't even consider buying one. Everyone here will do their own build to get something better for them at a much lower price. Used, sale or internet stuff from Germany will be where the parts come from. And the frame will be discounted or used.
    I was going to buy a new complete bike for the first time since 1998. The second hand market is a better bet, and I'll use the savings for a EX Storia or Avy out back and a Avy/Smashpot up front plus whatever other bits to make it mine. I'll catch up with newest trends and buzzwords another time.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    My wife and I were talking to her parents a while back about her grandparents.

    They were both Polish immigrants who didnít finish HS. Worked factory floor, non-management positions at a non/union, pension candy factory in Chicago. They both walked to work. At one point, they owned two nice homes and a large, undeveloped piece of property near Miami, IIRC. They are now both in their 90s, living in a very nice in the Front Range.

    Their yearly incomes, adjusted for inflation, are higher than we will likely make until we are 40 or more. They retired in their late 40s. For context, my wife has a BA, MA, PhD and JD. I have a BS and MS, and was managing 40 people and tens of millions of dollars of equipment in my late 20s. We both have jobs that we enjoy, challenge us and provide a sense of fulfillment. And based on our peer groups, neither of us are at all overqualified for the jobs we have.

    Her grandparents donít understand why we donít own a home, and why we donít have children yet. My wife has tried to explain some basic economic theory (wages vs inflation trends for example), but they donít want to hear the answers she provides.




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    I'm pretty excited with the amount of bike you can buy now for under $3000 new. The 2019 and up Yari is pretty darn good and 12 speed drivetrains are becoming the norm. Around $3k from a mail order company now means real good specs too! Cheap bikes are faster than ever. I used to hate buying cheaper bikes, although it's all I can ever afford, and they needed upgrades immediately. Now the bottom line parts are so good that I just wait till they brake to upgrade/replace them unless it's otherwise needed.

    The cost to build an "almost" top of the line bike is cheaper than ever too. With online prices on frame and parts, I can build a top of the line alloy bike for $4k. Patrol alloy frame is on sale for 1600, fox 36 grip 2 on sale for 700ish, $1000 for amazing alloy wheels and tires. $700 for a 12 speed drivetrain and the labor at my local bike shop. Using the brakes and cockpit parts from my other bikes.. It USED TO BE more like $4500 a few years ago, so counting inflation, a $500 drop is nice.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreTahoe View Post
    I'm pretty excited with the amount of bike you can buy now for under $3000 new. The 2019 and up Yari is pretty darn good and 12 speed drivetrains are becoming the norm. Around $3k from a mail order company now means real good specs too! Cheap bikes are faster than ever. I used to hate buying cheaper bikes, although it's all I can ever afford, and they needed upgrades immediately. Now the bottom line parts are so good that I just wait till they brake to upgrade/replace them unless it's otherwise needed.

    The cost to build an "almost" top of the line bike is cheaper than ever too. With online prices on frame and parts, I can build a top of the line alloy bike for $4k. Patrol alloy frame is on sale for 1600, fox 36 grip 2 on sale for 700ish, $1000 for amazing alloy wheels and tires. $700 for a 12 speed drivetrain and the labor at my local bike shop. Using the brakes and cockpit parts from my other bikes.. It USED TO BE more like $4500 a few years ago, so counting inflation, a $500 drop is nice.
    Buying the basic tools and watching a tutorial, or even asking here will save you a ton of cash. I've even heard others say they've paid a little extra to the LBS to be "in" on the repair to get first hand knowledge. Support your local LBS

    One issue with that is with all the standards out there, gathering tools can spread you a little thin. Industry standards be damned.
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I like to think of myself as the "SLX" level type of guy.
    I'm with ya. Used to run high end stuff, stopped seeing the point in it.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyAboveDirtBelow View Post
    Sports like mountain biking, road cycling, triathlon, and such have been taken over by middle aged yuppies. Yuppies do what yuppies gonna do, which basically breaks down to douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags. The market is pleased to accommodate. Thus we get $500 bib shorts, $600 shoes, $200 jerseys, $10k bikes. Anyone trying to make the argument that bicycle is justified in costing as much as motorbikes is a moron. The prices have nothing to do with the cost of manufacture or R&D or "high tech" materials or any other BS excuse people make. This is a luxury market and the prices are simply what (some) people are willing to pay. In fact the high end stuff are Veblen goods; the high price itself makes the good more desirable than a lower priced good. Aside from what others think, buying a high priced item brings satisfaction to the owner because of the high price paid. Again this comes down to douchebags buying stuff to impress other douchebags, even if the douchebag impressed is the buyer...

    .
    Ha ha. Wow. I do pretty well but I work pretty hard for my money. I buy some expensive stuff because I want to and I can. Doesn't make me a douchebag. I think some of the people who complain about The Rich would fold like cheap suits if they followed me around on a typical week.

    The satisfaction is not the price, it's the performance. My Rohloff hub was expensive for a reason and I enjoy the hell out of it, both because it works really well and because it's a conversation starter among fellow enthusiastic mountain bikers.

    I've never seen people so bitter over what other people do with their own money than on this site.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Thread derail that I will probably regret: I got a college degree right after high school in 2000 and didn't make more than $15 an hour until I was in my mid-30s just three years ago. Times have changed.

    I get the impression that people who reached adulthood in generations before me didn't have to work so hard for so long with so little result. Fortunately, I finished school before secondary education costs exploded, because I didn't have student loans to pay off. People in the next few years did. Nice bicycles have always seemed like an extravagant luxury for rich people to me. I don't know how people younger than myself can afford much of anything the the high cost of education and the crap wages many of them get. (Sorry for the unoriginal rant about the economy and stuff.)

    The sense I get from threads like this, whether it is warranted or not, is that mountain biking is being golfified so that it mostly attracts middle age dentist types. That might not be the case at all, but we have to wonder what the impression of exclusivity does long-term to the industry and trail advocacy. If young, working class people with families simply can't afford to even consider getting into mountain biking because they can't, or precieve they can't, afford to get into it at all, who is going to support the industry, get involved in racing/ events and maintain trails a decade from now? I've discussed this with a few such friends and they think I am out of my mind when I say they should consider spending more than $400 on a bicycle. They skip it and just stick to hiking.
    I live in Michigan. A lot of my patients are "legacy" retirees from GM and the other big players in the automobile industry. A lot of them are in their seventies and have been retired for thirty years getting what would be unheard of benefits for private sector jobs today. They are literally going to be retired for much longer than they actually worked. Some of them got other jobs but they have always been able to rely on a baseline of financial security that most of us don't have.

    Their generation really did have it easier than working people today.

    While the economy is improving (even here in Michigan), I doubt we are ever going back to jobs like that, the type that guys with high school diplomas expected to get and keep in the fifties and sixties. I have so many kids (all of them college-age or approaching it) and so much alimony and other money coming out of me that my odds of a meaningful retirement are pretty small and while I may get to slow down a little I'll probably work until I die or have a stroke.

    On another note, college is so prevalent today that the value of a college degree has been seriously eroded. Everybody can get a degree of some kind, most of them of dubious academic rigor. Welders, electricians, and pipe fitters make a lot more money than most college graduates in my home state.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Buying the basic tools and watching a tutorial, or even asking here will save you a ton of cash. I've even heard others say they've paid a little extra to the LBS to be "in" on the repair to get first hand knowledge. Support your local LBS

    One issue with that is with all the standards out there, gathering tools can spread you a little thin. Industry standards be damned.
    Yep, Iíd rather spend money on a tool and learn how to do something myself than pay someone else to do it. The exception being building wheels. Iíll happily let my LBS handle that.

    I have a lot of bike specific tools Iíve been collecting for the last 15 or so years. Itís just another part of cycling that I enjoy. Most basic tools arenít that expensive really.
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  85. #85
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    I build all my own stuff so I save money that way.
    When I bought my first FS 29er for 3500 bucks I thought wow, I need to spend 3500 bucks on a bike from here on out. THEN, I got a taste for fat bikes and Plus bikes.
    Right now, both my bikes are rigid. Saves me a ton.
    Another thing I do is not run out for the latest thing. I waited for twelve speed to trickle down and now you can get a GX Eagle drivetrain with a Sunrace cassette on Ebay for 238 dollars. I have that on one bike. As soon as the 2x10 on my fatty wears out, that will get it too.
    I also have to keep my rapidly growing son on correctly sized frames so that digs into my bike expenses.
    I've been waiting for two years to buy a Pike for my Krampus but I saw yesterday he's going to need to upgrade from a Large to an XL. 14 years old and 6'2". Hope he stops soon. I's hate to have to pay for XXL frames. I can usually manage to get a deal on a normal sized frame.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    It doesn't really matter how much the top end bikes cost. Most everyone answering wouldn't even consider buying one. Everyone here will do their own build to get something better for them at a much lower price. Used, sale or internet stuff from Germany will be where the parts come from. And the frame will be discounted or used.


    Unlike cars top tier bikes are an obtainable goal for lots of people, and a bike built from scratch with top end components and frame is still a top tier bike. I've owned a top of the line road bike and it's an amazing experience, hopefully I'll repeat it someday with a top of the line mtb.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Student loans?
    The only education that we owe any money on is law school for the wife; about half of that was paid for by a merit scholarship, and she worked during law school as well.

    Everything else has been paid for by scholarships or Uncle Sam. So, relatively speaking, for our total education, we have very little debt. I still have 2 years of GI Bill I can use. I keep offering to adopt my friends before they apply for grad school but no one has taken me up on the offer.

    But, as a general rule, on the Front Range of CO, wages/salaries are not keeping pace with the cost of housing, unless you want to live way, way east of I-25, or in a tiny, as-yet-undiscovered mountain town with no ski resort.
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  88. #88
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    Might as well ask: Has the price of food and drink made eating less interesting for you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Might as well ask: Has the price of food and drink made eating less interesting for you?
    Fitting analogy actually.

    Where many of us are happy cooking at home for the most part and splurging for a night out a decent restaurant once in awhile, seems there are also a lot of people who can't manage to be satisfied with anything less than French Laundry 365.
    I'd say the issue isn't with the prices, but with people's unrealistic ideas of what they 'need' to have.
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  90. #90
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    It's all about priorities!

    I eat on the cheap by cooking the majority of my meals at home, and I just placed an order on another SQLabs handlebar!
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I'd say the issue isn't with the prices, but with people's unrealistic ideas of what they 'need' to have.

    That may be true but it's a fact that the majority of Americans are making a lot less money relative to what they were earning 40 years ago.
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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Fitting analogy actually.

    Where many of us are happy cooking at home for the most part and splurging for a night out a decent restaurant once in awhile, seems there are also a lot of people who can't manage to be satisfied with anything less than French Laundry 365.
    I'd say the issue isn't with the prices, but with people's unrealistic ideas of what they 'need' to have.
    I love to cook and eat at home if I want tasty healthy food. I eat out at nice restaurants for entertainment.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Unlike cars top tier bikes are an obtainable goal for lots of people, and a bike built from scratch with top end components and frame is still a top tier bike. I've owned a top of the line road bike and it's an amazing experience, hopefully I'll repeat it someday with a top of the line mtb.
    I live well below my means, but having custom bike frames and surfboards made to my specifications is my joy. Oh and building and breaking my TJ Rubicon.
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    That may be true but it's a fact that the majority of Americans are making a lot less money relative to what they were earning 40 years ago.
    I've been working for about 35 years now, and most people I know are making a lot more than what they were making then.
    Maybe people these days are more likely to underperform and overspend? I definitely see a whole lot of that going on.
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I've been working for about 35 years now, and most people I know are making a lot more than what they were making then.
    Maybe people these days are more likely to underperform and overspend? I definitely see a whole lot of that going on.


    I would hope most people are making more, a dollar today would have been worth only about 30 cents in 1980. I'm sure lots of people underperform and overspend but that's always been true.

    I'm just saying average wages are quite a bit down compared to then and I don't think you can blame individuals on that.
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  96. #96
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    OP, get last years model on closeout, used or demo, lots of good value there. Still riding my 2013 29er enduro, my 2015 trek Farley and host of other older bikes. Just built up a Krampus, 2x11 drivetrain, boost, rigid and 40 mm rims. Great ride. Built it up my self except for the bb and headset install. Do what you like, you have $$? But don't want to spend? Hmmm.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Anyone have an apples-to-apples comparison to make? I am trying to think of a common denominator, but it's hard to make since bikes change so much. I have a hunch that the bike you can buy for $1000 today is MUCH better than what you could get for $1000 a decade ago. Keep in mind, 2009 was ten years ago now!
    You made me think...

    I bought a Gary Fisher Sugar 3+ new in 2003 for $1,800. XT drivetrain, Rockshox fork, Fox Race R, 110mm f/r, Hayes 9 hydraulic disks, Bontrager Race wheelset, etc. Granted, it's geo isn't up to today's standards, but it was ahead of its time back then. And even today, it's a pretty respectable full suspension XC bike. I actually still have it and ride it once in a blue moon. Heck, that old bike still operates better than many new bikes I've ridden that cost over $3,000. But for the point of this discussion, the $1,800 it cost in 2003 would be around $2,300-$2,400 today. I don't know that I could buy a comparable bike today (older standards aside) for little as $2,400.
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I'm just saying average wages are quite a bit down compared to then
    Or maybe not...

    "After adjusting for inflation, however, todayís average hourly wage has just about the same purchasing power it did in 1978"

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...d-for-decades/

    Of course, it would be great if it was way up, but flat doesn't equal 'down quite a bit' by any means.
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  99. #99
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    To answer the original question: no, the price of bikes does not keep me from enjoying riding my bike. It makes me think twice about upgrading and buying new gear for no reason, and has led me to learn to work on my own stuff, sell/ trade old parts rather than horde them, and chose components based on durability and ease of maintenance rather than buying cheap junk or the newest, lightest, trendiest.

    The price of bike parts makes being a consumer of bike stuff a little more painful and less fun, but that does not get in the way of riding and having fun if you make some attempt to be frugal and take care of your stuff rather than buying new stuff constantly and abusing/ neglecting it.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 1 Week Ago at 08:42 AM.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...d-for-decades/

    Of course, it would be great if it was way up, but flat doesn't equal 'down quite a bit' by any means.
    "Average"

    Read a little further:

    "And what wage gains there have been have mostly flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers."

    "Sluggish and uneven wage growth has been cited as a key factor behind widening income inequality in the United States. A recent Pew Research Center report, based on an analysis of household income data from the Census Bureau, found that in 2016 Americans in the top tenth of the income distribution earned 8.7 times as much as Americans in the bottom tenth ($109,578 versus $12,523). In 1970, when the analysis period began, the top tenth earned 6.9 times as much as the bottom tenth ($63,512 versus $9,212)."

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