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  1. #1
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    Fridays $20 question....

    So I'm in the process of buying/building a race specific hardtail. I'm getting a super deal on a 2004 Specialized Stumpjumper HT - which come with a 80mm Fox Float RL (easy to adjust to 100mm), and plan on upgrading the fork to an F80X. The guys at the shop were sort of suggesting a F100X for a little more cush - but it seems to me that the Stumpy HT's have pretty stretched out, fast, stable geometry already - and wouldn't really be helped by slacking out the headangle, if only by a little bit.... on the other hand, I cannot adjust the F series between the 80/100mm travel - like I can with my like-new Float 100RLC.

    Options:
    1- Get race-specific and get the F80X/Stumpy HT, keep Float 100RLC on Blur and call it a day
    2- Get the F100X, put it on the Blur or the HT depending on riding/races/mood/etc, and adjust the Float RLC to 80mm as required for the HT....
    3- Get the F100X and keep it on the HT "permanently" and benefit from the slightly slacker/more stable (less responsive too...) but auto-locked out super fork all the time... The longer travel is negated efficiency-wise by the terralogic anyhow...

    My gut says go F80X and tailor the bike for strictly faster less technical courses (relative to the rocky mountains anyhow!) which is actually a decision based more on projected saddle time for a given race, say 2.5+ hours gets the Blur anyhow, while less duration races get the HT. FWIW I find that the lock out on the Float RLC set to the softest threshold works great for tempering all but the sloppiest standing/pedalling bob, and still soaks up medium and large bumps as plush as can be!

    An 80mm fox fork feels better than both my 100mm Skareb and an old 100mm X-Fly, so maybe I ought to stop vascilating over this and get the 80! Ack...

    Decisions, decisions.....
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  2. #2
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    I can take PayPal

    I think you would be better off sticking with the lower priced RL and either get the Push Industries platform mods. This way you keep the 80/100 option, it will be custom valved just for you and it's much more adjustable. If you dead set on the inertial damping, you're better off with the Statos ID cartridge than the Fox X series.
    Long Live Long Rides

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    So I'm in the process of buying/building a race specific hardtail. I'm getting a super deal on a 2004 Specialized Stumpjumper HT - which come with a 80mm Fox Float RL (easy to adjust to 100mm), and plan on upgrading the fork to an F80X. The guys at the shop were sort of suggesting a F100X for a little more cush - but it seems to me that the Stumpy HT's have pretty stretched out, fast, stable geometry already - and wouldn't really be helped by slacking out the headangle, if only by a little bit.... on the other hand, I cannot adjust the F series between the 80/100mm travel - like I can with my like-new Float 100RLC.

    Options:
    1- Get race-specific and get the F80X/Stumpy HT, keep Float 100RLC on Blur and call it a day
    2- Get the F100X, put it on the Blur or the HT depending on riding/races/mood/etc, and adjust the Float RLC to 80mm as required for the HT....
    3- Get the F100X and keep it on the HT "permanently" and benefit from the slightly slacker/more stable (less responsive too...) but auto-locked out super fork all the time... The longer travel is negated efficiency-wise by the terralogic anyhow...

    My gut says go F80X and tailor the bike for strictly faster less technical courses (relative to the rocky mountains anyhow!) which is actually a decision based more on projected saddle time for a given race, say 2.5+ hours gets the Blur anyhow, while less duration races get the HT. FWIW I find that the lock out on the Float RLC set to the softest threshold works great for tempering all but the sloppiest standing/pedalling bob, and still soaks up medium and large bumps as plush as can be!

    An 80mm fox fork feels better than both my 100mm Skareb and an old 100mm X-Fly, so maybe I ought to stop vascilating over this and get the 80! Ack...

    Decisions, decisions.....
    Did you know that 100 X-Fly is convertible to 80mm by rearranging the spacer configuration? I just figured it out when rebuilding mine over the summer. Man do I love that fork. So simple yet works so well.

    Get the 80mm for the hardtail, save the 100 for your FS rig. It's nice having a really fast race-specific bike in the garage. Especially if it isn't as confortable as your daily ride. That removes most of the temptation to abuse it on your free-rides. You race, wash, tune, and hang it on a hook til the next week. You don't have to worry about whether that 4 foot ledge you bounced over in Moab bent something that will fail in the middle of your race.

    People make fun of me for having one bike that only goes to the races, but the convenience of grabbing it early in the morning, throwing it on the car, and not worrying about whether you remembered to lube the chain recently or adjusted the brake pads is just really really nice.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew
    I think you would be better off sticking with the lower priced RL and either get the Push Industries platform mods. This way you keep the 80/100 option, it will be custom valved just for you and it's much more adjustable. If you dead set on the inertial damping, you're better off with the Statos ID cartridge than the Fox X series.
    I hear ya on the RL, but it's got to be a Fox of some sort - team deal type arrangement. Not sold on the Push mod's over the "long haul" yet, though generally they sound good. Good feedback though - and fast! Thanks...
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    Did you know that 100 X-Fly is convertible to 80mm by rearranging the spacer configuration? I just figured it out when rebuilding mine over the summer. Man do I love that fork. So simple yet works so well.

    Get the 80mm for the hardtail, save the 100 for your FS rig. It's nice having a really fast race-specific bike in the garage. Especially if it isn't as confortable as your daily ride. That removes most of the temptation to abuse it on your free-rides. You race, wash, tune, and hang it on a hook til the next week. You don't have to worry about whether that 4 foot ledge you bounced over in Moab bent something that will fail in the middle of your race.

    People make fun of me for having one bike that only goes to the races, but the convenience of grabbing it early in the morning, throwing it on the car, and not worrying about whether you remembered to lube the chain recently or adjusted the brake pads is just really really nice.
    Just read the thread about the 80mm x-fly; seems pretty simple!

    I'm leaning towards the 80mm indeed... as the bike will be similarly used to the way you describe. Except that the first big XC race is the Tour of the Canyonlands (if they run it again) in Moab - where it's a screaming drag race out Kane Creek Rd., up & over Hurrah Pass, up behind Jackson Not Hole, shoulder the bike for the Jacobs Ladder ascent to the top, where the race resumes with a screaming descent down Amassa - 4 foot drops and all!

    People already make fun of me - especially for posting a video of roller silliness!

    Thanks too, for the speedy reply!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  6. #6
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    Just an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    So I'm in the process of buying/building a race specific hardtail. I'm getting a super deal on a 2004 Specialized Stumpjumper HT - which come with a 80mm Fox Float RL (easy to adjust to 100mm), and plan on upgrading the fork to an F80X. The guys at the shop were sort of suggesting a F100X for a little more cush - but it seems to me that the Stumpy HT's have pretty stretched out, fast, stable geometry already - and wouldn't really be helped by slacking out the headangle, if only by a little bit.... on the other hand, I cannot adjust the F series between the 80/100mm travel - like I can with my like-new Float 100RLC.

    Options:
    1- Get race-specific and get the F80X/Stumpy HT, keep Float 100RLC on Blur and call it a day
    2- Get the F100X, put it on the Blur or the HT depending on riding/races/mood/etc, and adjust the Float RLC to 80mm as required for the HT....
    3- Get the F100X and keep it on the HT "permanently" and benefit from the slightly slacker/more stable (less responsive too...) but auto-locked out super fork all the time... The longer travel is negated efficiency-wise by the terralogic anyhow...

    My gut says go F80X and tailor the bike for strictly faster less technical courses (relative to the rocky mountains anyhow!) which is actually a decision based more on projected saddle time for a given race, say 2.5+ hours gets the Blur anyhow, while less duration races get the HT. FWIW I find that the lock out on the Float RLC set to the softest threshold works great for tempering all but the sloppiest standing/pedalling bob, and still soaks up medium and large bumps as plush as can be!

    An 80mm fox fork feels better than both my 100mm Skareb and an old 100mm X-Fly, so maybe I ought to stop vascilating over this and get the 80! Ack...

    Decisions, decisions.....

    I would get the float RL PUSHED. Then youll have not only the platform but ALSO the travel adjustability too boot.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    Just read the thread about the 80mm x-fly; seems pretty simple!

    I'm leaning towards the 80mm indeed... as the bike will be similarly used to the way you describe. Except that the first big XC race is the Tour of the Canyonlands (if they run it again) in Moab - where it's a screaming drag race out Kane Creek Rd., up & over Hurrah Pass, up behind Jackson Not Hole, shoulder the bike for the Jacobs Ladder ascent to the top, where the race resumes with a screaming descent down Amassa - 4 foot drops and all!

    People already make fun of me - especially for posting a video of roller silliness!

    Thanks too, for the speedy reply!
    I'm going to make a point of hitting that Tour of Canyonlands race next year. Amasa is one of my favorites.

    Maybe I'll even take the Yeti (100mm XFly). I can clean the downhill on it.

    You should try to make it to Durango for the Iron Horse over Memorial Day weekend. That race is a LOT of fun.

    ~edit - I wasn't exactly making fun of you... I just thought you put a lot more effort into getting it online than you did... I was worried.

    ~edit x 2 - Ok, maybe I was making fun of you...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrm
    I would get the float RL PUSHED. Then youll have not only the platform but ALSO the travel adjustability too boot.
    Noted - see response in post #4
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    I'm going to make a point of hitting that Tour of Canyonlands race next year. Amasa is one of my favorites.

    Maybe I'll even take the Yeti (100mm XFly). I can clean the downhill on it.

    You should try to make it to Durango for the Iron Horse over Memorial Day weekend. That race is a LOT of fun.

    ~edit - I wasn't exactly making fun of you... I just thought you put a lot more effort into getting it online than you did... I was worried.

    ~edit x 2 - Ok, maybe I was making fun of you...
    Hopefully they run the race (Moab) as the death of Ben Hall rocked the promoter and may make the BLM rethink the permit conditions. Hopefully they run it, and get permission from the BLM to close the road down for the few hours it take to get every one through...
    Funny, I FLEW down Amassa on the Blur - 4 foot drop and all (I didn't mean to take) and look forward to running that course on a hard tail! 95% of the time is spent haulin' a55 on the dirt roads, and the fastest lightest bike that'll hold up will be a benefit, IMO.

    That said, if they DO run it - I will be there! And I look forward to meeting you! If not there than sometime/somewhere...

    As for Iron Horse - I ight just do that. I wish they'd make it part of the MSC series again, that's be cool - inmstead of a stand alone type race/event. Funny, if I do it - I'll be focusing on the road race! The mountain bike race would be more for "fun", I think.

    You're in Durango/area? I'll be spending a lot more time up that way in the future as a good friend has a new place there - and is an avid rider! (posts here as rs3o)

    And it's perfectly acceptable to make fun of me! My wife always does, as do friends & family....
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  10. #10
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    Option 1

    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    So I'm in the process of buying/building a race specific hardtail. I'm getting a super deal on a 2004 Specialized Stumpjumper HT - which come with a 80mm Fox Float RL (easy to adjust to 100mm), and plan on upgrading the fork to an F80X. The guys at the shop were sort of suggesting a F100X for a little more cush - but it seems to me that the Stumpy HT's have pretty stretched out, fast, stable geometry already - and wouldn't really be helped by slacking out the headangle, if only by a little bit.... on the other hand, I cannot adjust the F series between the 80/100mm travel - like I can with my like-new Float 100RLC.

    Options:
    1- Get race-specific and get the F80X/Stumpy HT, keep Float 100RLC on Blur and call it a day
    2- Get the F100X, put it on the Blur or the HT depending on riding/races/mood/etc, and adjust the Float RLC to 80mm as required for the HT....
    3- Get the F100X and keep it on the HT "permanently" and benefit from the slightly slacker/more stable (less responsive too...) but auto-locked out super fork all the time... The longer travel is negated efficiency-wise by the terralogic anyhow...

    My gut says go F80X and tailor the bike for strictly faster less technical courses (relative to the rocky mountains anyhow!) which is actually a decision based more on projected saddle time for a given race, say 2.5+ hours gets the Blur anyhow, while less duration races get the HT. FWIW I find that the lock out on the Float RLC set to the softest threshold works great for tempering all but the sloppiest standing/pedalling bob, and still soaks up medium and large bumps as plush as can be!

    An 80mm fox fork feels better than both my 100mm Skareb and an old 100mm X-Fly, so maybe I ought to stop vascilating over this and get the 80! Ack...

    Decisions, decisions.....
    like you said 80mm of fox travel is plenty plush.

  11. #11
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    It doesn't look hopeful for the race if they really did grade Amasa (See Hfly's thread)

    Yup - I'm in Durango. Dr. Faustus and I did a ride together before the Iron Horse last year. I just bought a house 1/2 way inbetween Farmington and Durango, so it's only a half hour to either spot. Opens up some new riding potential.

    Heh - I'd be expert 30-34. Don't worry - according to the Road Apple results I have 15 minutes to make up before you have to be concerned with me. I just feel bad staying in Sport - I wouldn't say I dominated, but my worst finish was 5th last year. Might as well push myself.

  12. #12
    jl
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    Glenzx.

    Go with your gut. I've raced a lot of races you did last year. My guess is that you _might_ want the Blur for the Firecracker, Telluride, Keystone, and what ever 24 hour event you undertake. Everything else--80mm HT will be a 'climbing' advantage.

    The funny thing is that I just moved from a racer HT to a FS bike that I will racing this coming year.
    We don't need more to be thankful for; we just need to be more thankful.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    It doesn't look hopeful for the race if they really did grade Amasa (See Hfly's thread)

    Yup - I'm in Durango. Dr. Faustus and I did a ride together before the Iron Horse last year. I just bought a house 1/2 way inbetween Farmington and Durango, so it's only a half hour to either spot. Opens up some new riding potential.

    Heh - I'd be expert 30-34. Don't worry - according to the Road Apple results I have 15 minutes to make up before you have to be concerned with me. I just feel bad staying in Sport - I wouldn't say I dominated, but my worst finish was 5th last year. Might as well push myself.
    Update on Tour of Canyonlands - sounds like there will be a Moab MSC race, but different course TBD! Will keep an ear to the ground (and PM mailbox hfly :-))

    If you plan on doing the MSC races - you may want to stay at Sport level, unless your plotting major training in the nest 4 months, and don't feel bad. The upper 1/2 of the MSC sport class was at least as fast as the NMORS series expert race winners! Ouch. ESPECIALLY the 30-34 guys! That said, the challenge has been a great learning experience for me, and I'd recommend it to you if you're gonna invest some serious training time for racing next year. The endurance bump up at expert, where the courses are longer than sport ones (most of the time, except a few - like Moab!) is a painful one. I can hammer for 1.5-2 hours, but then drastically lose power/strength at 2+ hours - which is the main training target for me this winter/spring.
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jl
    Glenzx.

    Go with your gut. I've raced a lot of races you did last year. My guess is that you _might_ want the Blur for the Firecracker, Telluride, Keystone, and what ever 24 hour event you undertake. Everything else--80mm HT will be a 'climbing' advantage.

    The funny thing is that I just moved from a racer HT to a FS bike that I will racing this coming year.
    Good advice jl - and damned straight! For 2.5+ hour races, or very technical courses (or both - like Firecracker!!!) - the FS will be the bike of choice. For faster, more climbing, and moderately technical courses (say Snowmass) - the HT will be the one. I strongly believe there are venues & events that favor one or the other!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  15. #15
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    my .02 cents

    Glen,
    I already went through what your going through last year when I built my race bike, here is my advice:
    The f80x is the ultimate race fork. The only regret I have on my custom steel hardtail is that I had it built for the 100x, it was waste and the geometry is a little weird. I have the 80x on my SS and love it.
    Hardtail VS FS: I'm not going to get into the whole which one is better thing. Your an Expert racer and you already know all about the differances. I race the HT because almost all the race courses are not technical here.
    Here is the disadvantage of having 2 bikes: You ride the blur all the time then you get on the HT and it's really hard to get used to it. For me the hardest part is rocky climbing, I bounce all over the place. I finally got a Thudbuster suspention seatpost so I could stay in the saddle and peddle, like I was used to doing on my Truth. This added over half a pound!
    Anything you can do to have the same parts on you FS and Hardtail will make the transition easier. I have Sram on both bikes, same brakes, etc
    Feel free to drop me an e-mail.

    Rick
    Ride to eat, Eat to ride.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin
    Glen,
    I already went through what your going through last year when I built my race bike, here is my advice:
    The f80x is the ultimate race fork. The only regret I have on my custom steel hardtail is that I had it built for the 100x, it was waste and the geometry is a little weird. I have the 80x on my SS and love it.
    Hardtail VS FS: I'm not going to get into the whole which one is better thing. Your an Expert racer and you already know all about the differances. I race the HT because almost all the race courses are not technical here.
    Here is the disadvantage of having 2 bikes: You ride the blur all the time then you get on the HT and it's really hard to get used to it. For me the hardest part is rocky climbing, I bounce all over the place. I finally got a Thudbuster suspention seatpost so I could stay in the saddle and peddle, like I was used to doing on my Truth. This added over half a pound!
    Anything you can do to have the same parts on you FS and Hardtail will make the transition easier. I have Sram on both bikes, same brakes, etc
    Feel free to drop me an e-mail.

    Rick
    More great advice from master Merlin! The race bike will get ridden during shorter rides, and will have heavier wheels/tires on during those rides (light ones for race day - have that extra little boost...) - but the drivetrain, cockpit, shifters and brakes will be the same - as I figured I wanted to minimze the "race day transition"! But I see you're one step ahead - if not many more - and the advice about the fork sealed the deal; F80X is on the way! The 8omm Fox forx feel so good, it seemed like a nominal difference plushness-wise, while keeping the geometry balanced and quick. I'll be curious about the seatpost situation, as I'll start with a carbon post for some shock dampening, but see if more cusion is needed later....

    Should have the bike "up and running" at the end of the week, at which time the new bike shots will no doubt make their way onto MTBR! Polished Stumpy HT, F80X, SRAM X-O / TruVativ drivetrain, Thompson stem, Easton XC riser carbon bars & seatpost, Magura Marta Disks with my fancy super-wheelset (sub 1500 gram set - CK ISO's, Stans Rims, mix of super-duper butted spokes and a pro build) (alternate set-up is Avid SD Mag brakes with XTR hubs / Mavic 517's; tested and proven ;-)), and so on....still looking for a sub-200gram half decent/comfy seat. Life is tough....
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  17. #17
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    what you should be doing...

    is picking out a fork for your ss, I suggest rigid.

    Do you want to send me the $20, or just give it to me next time we see each other? I'll be in SF tonight...

    scott

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    bike tech geek

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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsman
    is picking out a fork for your ss, I suggest rigid.

    Do you want to send me the $20, or just give it to me next time we see each other? I'll be in SF tonight...

    scott
    LOL, what are you guys sniffin' today? Pfft. Are you in SF tonight?

    Rigid SS? maybe, though I have so many dang forks, it'd seem silly to not throw one on a SS. I do have a thrasher/thrashed steel nashbar frame..... but man, that thing is a tank! I suppose that makes it more likely a candidate for SS then .

    Can one really rely on those singleator tension dealy-o's? If so, I'll give it a shot! I even have an extra disk brake for the front wheel, though the frame doesn't have rear disk tabs.... guess the old v-brake would be OK! Hmm, I think I do have all that's needed, come to think of it! Just need a single cog converter for rear cassette set-up, tensioner and that would do it! Until I need a Jericho EBB frame, ooh, wait - no, an IFab Ti SS.... yessssss!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  20. #20
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    lager

    I know that you limit the amount of drinking that you do, but I love a good lager (when I can;t find a better porter).

    speaking of lagers, rather than one of those singulators (or others of similar design) I have to seriously pimp the rollenlager (http://www.rennendesigngroup.com/rollen_info.html).

    these are awesome!

    scott

    btw, I went to BnS in SF and I touched your new frame

    bu-ha, bu-ha, bu-ha-ha-ha-ha

    your shiny finish has my dirty prints on it

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenzx
    More great advice from master Merlin! The race bike will get ridden during shorter rides, and will have heavier wheels/tires on during those rides (light ones for race day - have that extra little boost...) - but the drivetrain, cockpit, shifters and brakes will be the same - as I figured I wanted to minimze the "race day transition"! But I see you're one step ahead - if not many more - and the advice about the fork sealed the deal; F80X is on the way! The 8omm Fox forx feel so good, it seemed like a nominal difference plushness-wise, while keeping the geometry balanced and quick. I'll be curious about the seatpost situation, as I'll start with a carbon post for some shock dampening, but see if more cusion is needed later....

    Should have the bike "up and running" at the end of the week, at which time the new bike shots will no doubt make their way onto MTBR! Polished Stumpy HT, F80X, SRAM X-O / TruVativ drivetrain, Thompson stem, Easton XC riser carbon bars & seatpost, Magura Marta Disks with my fancy super-wheelset (sub 1500 gram set - CK ISO's, Stans Rims, mix of super-duper butted spokes and a pro build) (alternate set-up is Avid SD Mag brakes with XTR hubs / Mavic 517's; tested and proven ;-)), and so on....still looking for a sub-200gram half decent/comfy seat. Life is tough....
    with the exception of the disc brakes sounds A LOT like my race bike. FYI, please tell me your not getting an Easton Post! I went through 2 of them
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsman
    I know that you limit the amount of drinking that you do, but I love a good lager (when I can;t find a better porter).

    speaking of lagers, rather than one of those singulators (or others of similar design) I have to seriously pimp the rollenlager (http://www.rennendesigngroup.com/rollen_info.html).

    these are awesome!

    scott

    btw, I went to BnS in SF and I touched your new frame

    bu-ha, bu-ha, bu-ha-ha-ha-ha

    your shiny finish has my dirty prints on it
    Aside from the miscellaneous strange comments , the tensioer you provided the link for looks great! But now I have the ENO Eccentric idea stuck in my head...

    The "new frame" is pretty simple, eh? Can't wait to get those wonky factory spec. parts off her (and sell them on eBay). Should make for a screamer! Did it have the new fork yet???? Gotta call BnS!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin
    with the exception of the disc brakes sounds A LOT like my race bike. FYI, please tell me your not getting an Easton Post! I went through 2 of them
    LOL, upon further research - I ruled out the Easton post.... Will stick with a trusty Thompson!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

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